as staffing shortages continue to disrupt businesses and schools nationwide. and later, what is next for democrats after president biden's stark warning on the anniversary of the january 6th insurrection that american democracy is in danger? what are they going to do about it? tim kaine of virginia will be here ahead. welcome to "meet the press daily". one day after the president's fierily address. the administration -- cases are continuing to skyrocket. the 7-day average of new daily infections is now above 600,000. that has pushed hospitalizations to levels we haven't seen since the worst of the pandemic. this may be mild for most people, but it's still triggering hospitalizations. white house is being urged to retool the message. focus on ways for the u.s. to live with the virus given the spread and frankly, our unwillingness to do more about it as a society. cdc chief said this morning that her agency is preparing for the covid endemic which would suggest a looming pivot in terms of public health policy. then the president responded to questions from reporters about whether his messaging from reporters should be covid is here to stay. his response? no, but then clarified well, yes, covid, we're going to deal with it now is not means it's here to stay, and yet it will be around the world. at the same time, questions surrounding the administration's legal powers around vaccine mandates are before the supreme court today. the court has been hearing emergency appeals this morning challenging the administration's vaccine or testing. this is a soft mandate. vaccine or testing requirements for large employers in addition to the vaccine requirements for certain health care workers. so the covid confusion, short alks and disruptions are on top of one another. from hospitals to schools, workplaces, airports. what should the administration's current strategy look like? and what powers do they actually have legally and politically? well, the supreme court is going to let us know soon. with me now is our own carol lee outside the white house. ken is outside the supreme court. the hearings are still going on. we have professor of bio ethics and a co-director of case western's law medicine center. carol, i want to start with you, because you know, another day and a sort of i don't want to call it mixed messages, but sort of -- it does seem the white house and the president is trying to straddle a fence of they're going to pivot to a learn to live with covid strategy, but he doesn't want to sound like he's totally given up on ending this pandemic. >> well, chuck, from the president's perspective, or the white house's perspective politically, that pivot is a little hard to do given that he had declared our independence from the virus earlier last summer, and so this is a bit of a crisis for the white house, for the administration in terms of public confidence in their messaging and their ability to handle the virus, and look, this was a president who said that he would come in and he and his team would fix all of this. and what we've seen is repeatedly these mixed messages and a lot of confusion largely coming out of the cdc, and there is frustration with the white house toward the cdc. but it's also confusion coming from the president himself at times, and so the question i think now is whether not just the cd -- can the cdc turn this around and try to fix this? can they do it with this particular cdc director, and how does it happen? there are tests the white house is facing in this respect that could either compound the issue or maybe set them on better footing. you mentioned the supreme court issue, but also they're supposed to send out these tests to homes, and that involves obviously a heavy lift in terms of getting 500 million tests out to individuals who want to get them. they have to set up a website. that hasn't always been the government's best thing they learn -- know how to do. so whether they can clear those sorts of hurdles and try to get this on a more stable footing where people can have confidence in what they're saying is a real open question now, and there are some things ahead that will determine whether or not that can be the case. but this is a president who promised he could do that. so he set the expectation. i think people are expecting him to meet it. >> look, i want to play something that was said today on the "today show" on responding to questions why the guidance seems to be murky. here's what she said. >> you know, we at the cdc are 12,000 people who are working 24/7, following the science with ever-evolving nature in the midst of a really fast-moving pandemic. and we are doing so putting our head down to keep america safe. we will continue to update. we will continue to improve how we communicate to the american public. this is fast-moving science. >> carol, i think the question i have is is the cdc have a messaging problem, or does the cdc and the covid task force and the white house, is it their own communications problem? i mean, i can't figure out what this is. is the cdc not able to put the guidance out that they want because, say, we don't have enough tests, or are they just unable to communicate it very well because the white house isn't giving them any guidance on that? >> i think it's a little bit of both. there is some -- for example, have sympathy for the cdc because of what the director said. this is something that's fast-moving and look, any time that you have a virus like this where things change over time, you have to come back in and make adjustments, and so the problem that they have is that while that may be true, they seem to be making adjustments very quickly. i mean, if they announce something and then the following week have to clarify like their isolation guidelines, for instance, and you hear different things from different faces of the administration where dr. fauci came out and said they were going to fix it, they were going to clarify this, whereas the cdc director dug in on saying that they didn't need to test after the guidelines. some of this is self-inflicted and some of this is just the nature of a problem like this, means that they're going to have to revise some of the things they're putting out as they learn more. the problem is they don't have the confidence from the public to make those revisions and have people believe that that's -- they're necessary and that it's not just the cdc making a mistake again. >> look, i don't know how this happened, but they were supposed to help raise up the cdc's profile when they took over. it's not good that late night television is making cdc the butt of jokes. that is not the good place to be. the white house should be a lot more concerned. cdc should be concerned about that as well. let me move to the supreme court arguments there before ken gets blown away. i know you are out there. my apoloies on these gusts of wind. i'm sorry there isn't a better situation there. so these arguments have gone on a little bit longer. based on what you've been able to hear, is this a court that is giving the benefit of the doubt to the federal government as history says it will, or are the challengers being -- have a chance here to stop this? >> it's a little bit hard to read, chuck, but there has been some skepticism addressed by some of the conservative justices. particularly justice roberts who you would expect to be a compromiser, a swing vote, very sympathetic to executive authority. he was pointed in his questioning of the government's lawyers about why this approach? why this piece meal approach, a rule from the occupational health and safety administration. a separate rule for health care workers. a separate rule for the military. he asks why can't congress just impose a broad vaccine mandate. of course, that's not practical. and t not going to happen. and the government responded look, we have the authority to do that. and roberts came back well, yeah, it's a 50-year-old law. i don't think that envisioned coronavirus back then, and that there's never been this kind of broad vaccine mandate imposed on all american workplaces because recall this is a rule that would apply to every employer of more than 100 people. and what the opponents came in today and said was look, this is overlie broad and it's going to cause us to have to fire workers. workers are going to quit at a moment where there's already supply chain shortages. it's going to cause significant economic disruption. and they cited the example of amtrak. it's under a separate vaccine mandate which had to suspend their vaccine mandate because they said they would have had to cut back on train service if they implemented it on time. it looks like it may be in trouble at the moment. >> ken, are you able to denote any difference between the two challenges? the health care worker mandate got more openness with the conservative justices or not? >> reporter: well, those arguments have only just gotten underway. but that -- they do have the stronger hand to play because that's involving the spending of federal money and strings attached to that. it's a different legal principle. the government is funding the health care and saying you're taking our money, therefore, we're imposing the vaccine mandate. they seem to have a little more leeway to do that there. but also in that case, the conservatives are expressing skepticism about -- essentially what they're saying is covid is not just a workplace issue. it's a thing that affects everybody. so is the workplace mandate the right solution here? >> ken, get out of that wind. get out of these weird conditions. thank you, sir. appreciate it. let me bring in sarona hoffman from case western university. i know you've been following the arguments as well. our reporter there, ken, is that the sense you got here, that there's a bit more skepticism from the conservatives including john roberts who is sort of our, i guess, the person that's right in the center of the court these days. is that the read you had there, and do do you see this going this that direction? >> it's hard to tell. this is certainly an unprecedented mandate. usually public health mandates come from the states and there is long-standing precedent that the states have the right to impose vaccine mandates. so this is a new issue. there's certainly skepticism. i have not heard the argument about the health care worker case, so i can't assess that. >> it's just starting. >> yes. it's just starting, so i did hear from skepticism, but it's not clear because this is a matter of life and death, and osha is a powerful administrative agency that has done lots of things. >> let me play for you what the ohio solicitor general argued about saying the mandates are too broad, and i want to get your response. here's what ben flowers said. >> osha could regulate covid-19 in the workplace when the employer does something like packing individuals closely together in a poorly ventilated area that enhances or changes the nature of the risk, i should say, but that's not the risk they say they're regulating. 61,411 of the federal register say the risk is you'll come into contact with individuals and the risk of encountering an individual is an ever present risk you face at home, at work, and everywhere else. >> it seems to me he's arguing that it is too broad. there could be a federal government mandate, say, sounds like for meat packing plants or for a certain amount of people that work in the same room. what do you make of that argument? >> well, this disease is airborne. there's a risk any time you're in a room rather than outside, and so it is a workplace risk. so it's not clear that there's a better fix. if you really want to eliminate the risk in the workplace, you do have to take broader measures. and the vaccine is the most effective measure that we have. >> in your mind, is there a difference in the mandate between mandating a vaccine and mandating weekly testing? >> well, a vaccine is a lot cheaper, and it is an effective measure in the face of a grave danger which we have. with testing, you get into much bigger expenses. you also get into problems of well, did the person get sick between tests? so testing is certainly better than nothing. but it's not nearly as effective as a vaccine, and if you are trying to eliminate the risk erktively, then you want to go for a vaccine. >> would there be any difference in this legal argument if the mandate were for mandating masks in the workplace? >> i think we would see the same kind of resistance. we have cases ongoing about mask mandates in schools here in ohio, and i think if it was just a mask mandate, you would see the same kind of challenges. though vaccines do seem to be an even more emotional issue. >> i know you haven't heard the arguments of the health care one, but given that it is tied to federal money, right, that supreme court can't tell the federal government not to mandate a vaccine for the military, things like that, in general do you think there's a stronger case for the federal government on their mandate for some health care workers? >> i think there probably is a stronger case, because it is federal spending, but you can also argue in the same way that this is a very broad mandate, that it requires an invasive procedure, a vaccine we haven't seen that to the same extent with a similar federal mandate in the past. and so there are arguments to be made still about whether the federal government has this power. though, i think it is a stronger argument in favor of the biden administration. >> any unintended consequence to osha's power long-term if the supreme court says nope, you can't use osha for this? >> i don't think so. this is an unusual mandate that's under the powers. other mandates have been long-accepted having to do with other workplace hazards, so i don't think osha will be gutted by a negative decision. >> gotcha. professor from case western university, appreciate you coming on. before that my colleagues carol lee and ken dilanian. tony blinking is speaking with reporters. the briefing comes as u.s. and russia are poised to start security talk next week amid mounting talks over ukraine where russia has amassed more than troops along the border. of course, russia has a complicated factor going on as they -- their ally kazakhstan has called them in to help with the protests. and that's actually complicating russia's focus on what it's trying to do with the west regarding ukraine. anyway, a lot going on there. a lot of moving parts. if news is made, we'll share it with you. still ahead, from messaging to testing questions about whether this is a new normal. the biden administration continues to struggle to respond to this latest covid surge. we're going to talk to a former white house senior adviser for covid next. the unemployment rate is at 3.9%. below 4. a record-breaking number of americans are quitting their jobs. omicron-related staffing shortages are wreaking havoc on businesses and schools nationwide. you're watching "meet the press daily". with liberty mutual, so we only pay for what we need. -hey tex, -wooo. can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ thanks for bringing me with you guys today, mr. and mrs. lopez. not a problem, josh. hey, you two. check out all these camera views in my silverado i can see in front of me, behind me, on either side of me. and it has this cam, so i can see if there's any funny business going on. you see any funny business going on? no, sir. let's have a great day! the chevy silverado offers eight cameras with up to 15 different views. find new views. find new roads. chevrolet. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ when you have nausea, ♪ ♪ ♪ heartburn, ingestion, upset stomach... ♪ ♪ diarrheaaaa.♪ try pepto bismol with a powerful coating action. for fast and soothing relief. pepto bismol for fast relief when you need it most. aleve-x. it's fast, powerful long-lasting relief with a revolutionary, rollerball design. because with the right pain reliever... life opens up. aleve it... and see what's possible. new year, new start. and now comcast business is making it easy to get going with the ready. set. save. sale. get started with fast and reliable internet and voice for $64.99 a month with a 2-year price guarantee. it's easy... with flexible installation and backing from an expert team, 24/7. and for even more value, ask how to get up to a $500 prepaid card. get a great deal for your business with the ready. set. save. sale today. comcast business. powering possibilities. no, i don't think covid is here to stay. having covid in the environment here and in the world is here to stay. covid as we're dealing with it now is not here to stay. we're going to be able to control this. the new normal is not going to be what it is now. it's going to be better. >> welcome back. that was president biden last hour on whether covid is here to stay. many experts including six of his former campaign health advisers and transition healthed a viers are saying covid is on its way to being an endemic, but right now it's still a pandemic. ten straight days the case averages are a record high. the plan to distribute 500 million free rapid tests to americans this month is still unclear. by the way, we still have a testing shortage for those who need it quickly. joining me now is andy slavit. i was talking to a former public health official for a fairly large state earlier today who is of the mind -- basically wondering what more can be done. what's realistic given our environment, our political divide, given the public's exhaustion. and i'm curious before i get into some specifics about whether it's time to deal with this as an endemic, is there something we haven't tried that you think we should? >> well, a lot does rest on today's court case, because i think this is the most forceful and by the way, lawful steps to basically protect the american public. mark mcclelen and i co-authored a piece on this very topic in the washington post. we're in the middle of a tsunami. in the tsunami there's a lot of things that are going to get wet that wouldn't in a normal wave. you run out of things. you have short angs. you manage through with the best you can. you take action and put yourself on better footing. for states and the country, people around the country, that's where we're going to be for at least the next couple weeks. >> it's a bit frustrating and i'm sure you feel this and i'm sure a lot of people watching feel this. it's pretty clear we're in -- like you said, we're in the middle of a storm. and it basically we all need to get off the road. right? not for long. this is i think the one piece of good news about omicron. it's coming and going. but it feels like -- you know, covid staffing shortages are forcing shutdowns in places that say they don't want them. but if we had two weeks to slow the spread, how much of a better place would we be in two weeks? >> well, look, i think you're exactly right. we don't -- we're at a point in the country where we don't get serious at a local level about taking precautions until the hospitals are already full, until the hospital beds are already full. and even though this is a virus that doesn't invade the lungs as much, doesn't cause as much pneumonia, that's good news. there are so many people getting infected that there are enough people going to the hospital that as we continue, they are beginning to fill. whether we choose to decide not to go to restaurants or go to college or go to school or hospitals or not, one way or the other, covid is deciding for us. it's essentially saying we can't staff these things. >> right. >> if we can't staff these things, you can't go to those things. we'll either have it done to us or take the precautions ourselves. >> right. the phoenix airport today, they have two security lines totally shut down because of tsa staff shortages via covid. but the airport is open. people are trying to keep things open. they physically can't. let's go to the issue of preparing for an endemic. what does that look like in the next six months? >> well, look, i mean, we have to take a little bit of peace with the fact that we -- we can't perfectly predict the future here. you know, i think omicron was as much a surprise as delta, and we can all look back in hindsight and say we should have prepared. we're at a point where on some days an estimated 1% to 2 % of the public is coming down with covid in a single day. so there's very little to do about that. but you're right, that the thing we should be thinking about is how do we get back to a steady state? and a steady state where we really have the tools so covid is manageable, where we have enough rapid tests. where we have good surveillance, school protocols, where we have the anti-virals that are easily accessible as they come online so that you have a simple process. take a test, get a positive result, get extra prescription. get an anti-viral. all in one sitting. so that -- a new normal will look like not like hey, there's no covid, but what it will look like is hey, we have enough science and enough tools and enough good sense that covid is no longer a major threat to us. >> you know, is it as simple as creating some sort of metric like look, all right, this is a -- i remember in the 80s, you find out today is a bad air day in l.a. and okay, and put on the mask. today is a bad covid month. or do you think we'll get to the point where covid is semi seasonal like we know it goes south in the summer and north in the winter so maybe winter states you got to wear masks. things like that? is that what a new normal for the next 18 months to two years looks like? >> i think that's a perfect analogy and description. because when things are more predictable, they are less scary. i lived in los angeles, and you know, you know if there's a bad weather or air day here because they publish it. or if you have allergies. i think we'll be able to do the same thing here. that's what the surveillance is about. whether it's waste water surveillance, whether it's surveillance of variants we're doing, those are the kinds of tools that allow you to wake up and say i'm not going to fly to visit my family in tulsa because it's more dangerous than where i am in los angeles. so that kind of information will inform us and help us, and i think with a regular booster shot in the fall, probably going into winter, particularly for older people, much like the flu, it will keep more people safe. >> the issue of testing. i understand -- i have to say the excuse that oh, there wasn't demand for testing three months ago so that's why we didn't manufacture enough feels like being shocked we're in the middle of a pandemic. you know, some things are going to be lost leaders. too many tests all the time ought to be lost leaders. why don't we have that mind set? >> well, look, back in september president biden put $3 billion into scaling more test production. we didn't have any at-home tests when the president came into office. we have two today. these things, i think, scale up. we probably would have had a problem over the christmas holidays anyway given the demand, but there's a couple things going on. one, way too many cases. there's no possible scenario where you can keep up with the cases. secondly, we got to make sure these things work. there are some questions about when they work and how well they work. the fda is smart to make sure they fully check these things out. >> andy, it's always good to have you on with your directness and your expertise. thank you, sir. i appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, schools, parents and teachers across the country are struggling. two years of learning losses being compounded by extreme staffing shortages. one big city school superintendent has to spend her day being a substitute teacher this week. she's joining me next. you're watching "meet the press daily". plaque psoriasis, the tightness, stinging... ...the pain. emerge tremfyant®. with tremfya®, adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis... ...can uncover clearer skin and improve symptoms at 16 weeks. serious allergic reactions may occur. tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. emerge tremfyant® with tremfya®... ask you doctor about tremfya® today. welcome back. staffing shortages are plaguing every part of the country. some workers are leaving their jobs because of covid restrictions. others are searching for safer opportunities. the job openings and labor turnover survey noted 4.5 million americans quit their job in november. that was a record. the labor shortages are having huge impacts on daily life. we saw how the lack of airline staff and tsa workers disrupted holiday travel. it's still disrupting travel. today the northeast is facing a snow day with fewer snowplows available as driver shortages persist. one of the hardist hit areas and one of the most pressing for families across the country is education. teachers leave their in-person classroom jobs and surging covid cases further exacerbate the problem leaving staff in a tougher spot as teachers and staff test positive. i'm joined by the superintendent of boston public schools. she stepped in to teach fourth grade this week. i appreciate your coming here. what's interesting here is whether it's teacher aides who were just starting to sort of apprentice as teachers, who have had to have classes all yearlong in some schools, i know of other high schools in my area where they've let kids out early because they don't have enough teachers to supervise. tell me, paint the picture in boston. >> well, we have been pulling together as a team here in boston. we've had about 1,10 0 teachers out. staff out. that includes about 459 teachers that we had out with covid and over about 600 teachers out overall. so that has put a strain on the system. but our team has really rallied to put together a staff that is licensed to our classrooms as well as other staff from central office who have been filling in for recess and lunch. lunch duty to really help out. >> so there's one thing in sort of getting through a moment. but let me ask you this. you're the superintendent. you've got to start thinking about the next school year, and you've got to start thinking about the next couple years. what is your biggest concern in the next two years? is this going to become contagious where people continue to leave? >> well, you know, that's a huge concern for all the summits across the nation as we were already having labor shortages in education over the past several years. and now the pandemic has exacerbated that for us and teachers are really, really tired. so we are looking at some early incentives for teachers. also trying to make sure that we have working with our preservice teachers and our higher education institutions, looking at ways to make licensing easier for teachers. it would be nice to have a national reciprocity across our nation's licensing boards which would be great. so that would really help. we're also like the snowplows today that you just showed, having a huge problem with bus drivers, and what we really need is like a plan around our labor shortage here. and we need to marshall all of the best thinking that we have to ensure that we have teachers in our classroom today and teachers in our classroom this fall. >> you know, i believe it was the state of massachusetts where your governor there had to call up the national guard for the start of the school year. is this just simply -- is this a -- a licensing issue, or is it the same issue just the pay is not that great, so if people think they can have an opportunity somewhere else, they're going to quit and go look somewhere else? >> teachers are going to this profession because they love children. it is a worthy profession. i think that those folks are still out there. i think we need to make it easier and create pathways for teachers, especially diverse teacher work force into our classrooms for today. and so there's a lot we can do around licensing. a lot we can do around pre-service programming. tuition reimbursement for teachers, taking care of loans. i'm hoping the biden administration will help our teachers out that way. it would be a great way to reward them for the past two years of serving in our schools. you know, we always say that the police and fire and emergency personnel are frontline workers as well as our amazing health care workers. and now our teachers are also on the frontlines, and i think we need to compensate them accordingly and treat them like the professionals they are. i think that's going to help us get teachers into our classrooms. >> not to try to make policy on the fly here, but a good friend of mine worked for teach for america for years. it sounds like you're thinking hey, there's this debate about do you cancel all student debt? maybe start with teachers first, or maybe if you go into teaching, you get to cancel your ket, something like that. do you think that would improve the number of applicants you would have? >> i think our democracy depends on our children being educated, our citizenry, and we are at a critical tipping point for our nation in our public schools. and i think to get to your long-term question, we have got to have tooechers in our classroom who are competent and caring. as a principal, my job was to ensure i had a competent and caring teacher in every classroom. the only way to do that is cancel the debt and have tuition incentives, particularly for a diverse work force which we know research shows if you have a teacher who is -- looks like you, understands your culture, they are -- they speak your language, they are absolutely going to be helping you achieve more. >> well, if we're going to demand teachers get the same type of education that lawyers get, we have to think about paying them way as well. boston public school superintendent, thank you for coming and sharing what you are going through up in boston. >> thank you, chuck. appreciate it. i'm going to talk to senator tim kaine about his efforts to move manchin and voting rights and build back better and we'll have a question or two about the 27 hours that he spent this week stuck on i-95. first, we're waiting for the sentencing hearing of the men convicting of murdering ahmaud arbery. the family spoke about their loss asking the judge to hand down the maximum sentence for each man. it would be life in prison without parol. ahmaud had a future that was taken from him in annen stans of violence. he was robbed of his life pleasures, big and small. he will never be able to fulfill his professional dreams, or be able to start a family or even be a part of my daughter's life. the loss of ahmaud has devastated me and my family. i'm asking that the man that killed him be given the maximum sentence. m sentence ow! i'm ok! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ only in theaters december 17th. i'm jonathan lawson here to tell you about life insurancerty. ♪ through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85, and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget. i'm 54, what's my price? you can get coverage for $9.95 a month. i'm 65 and take medications. what's my price? also $9.95 a month. i just turned 80, what's my price? $9.95 a month for you too. if you're age 50 to 85, call now about the #1 most popular whole life insurance plan available through the colonial penn program. it has an affordable rate starting at $9.95 a month. no medical exam, no health questions. your acceptance is guaranteed. and this plan has a guaranteed lifetime rate lock so your rate can never go up for any reason. so call now for free information and you'll also get this free beneficiary planner. and it's yours free just for calling. so call now for free information. inner voice (sneaker shop owner): i'm surprising my team with a preview of the latest sneaker drop. because i can answer any question about any shoe. but i'm stumped when it comes to payroll. intuit quickbooks helps you easily run payroll in less than 5 minutes... ...so you can stay... one step ahead. ...so you can stay... after my car accident, i wondered what my case was worth. so i called the barnes firm. when that car hit my motorcycle, insurance wasn't fair. so i called the barnes firm. it was the best call i could've made. atat t bararnefirmrm, our r inry a attneysys wk hahard i could've made. atat t bararnefirmrm, to get you the best result possible. call us now and find out what your case could be worth. you u mit bebe sprisised ♪ the barnes firm injury attorneys ♪ ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ welcome back. turning to capitol hill on the anniversary of the january 6th attack on the capitol hill, the talk on the need to pass voting and election reform. >> from the mortality of bloody sunday on the edmund pettus bridge came a voting rights initiative. now let's step up. write the next chapter in american history. where january 6th marks not the end of democracy but the beginning of a renaissance of liberty and fair play. >> let's be clear. we must pass the voting rights bills that are now before the senate. >> but passing such legislation is easier said than done. as we've been staying for days, weeks and months, democrats are going to have to sway their entire caucus to allow a bill to pass with 50 votes or get at least ten republican colleagues on board. one might argue there hasn't been an urgency until this week to see the leader of the democratic party push for this. so a democrat that is in the center of the discussions is tim kaine. senator, it is good to see you warm, rested. i assume somewhat rested. before i get to the i-95 mis-happen and our governor's interesting take on what happened, i want to speak on the voting issue. these bills were introduced right when this congress started. that was a year ago. a lot of people assumed that after covid relief, it sort of the two tracks here were covid relief which you got done, and the issue of the democracy because of what happened on january 6th. and that urgency stalled. everything got focussed on infrastructure and build back better. and we can have a long debate about what should have come first. but how do you get the urgency back? because i would argue you had it in the first three or four months of the year, and it got lost. >> well, chuck, you're right. i mean, at least the base bills were filed early in the year. we didn't have all democrats on board with freedom to vote act. we had 49 on board but not 50. and in may senator schumer asked if i would work together with others to try to get senator manchin on board. and we worked from may until september looking at the -- for the people act which was filed starting provisions of it dramatically changing others, adding some. the freedom to vote act was introduced in september. we've got the john lewis bill under the voting rights act. a freedom to vote act guaranteeing minimal access to the ballot and federal elections and other safeguards of our democracy. and we've been working very hard since getting that bill filed to do a couple things. first, in the senate as you know, because of the rules here, normally you can't pass legislation without some bipartisanship. so we undertook massive efforts in september, october, november, to put the bills on the floor, to talk to republicans about do you have amendments. how about counter offers? we'll give you unlimited amendments. what do you think we should do? and it took us two months to demonstrate what many of us believed, but we had to at least demonstrate it, that there was going to be virtually no republican help with the exception of lisa murkowski, a co-sponsor of the lewis bill. once that was done and we had really convinced everyone republicans weren't going to help, now we've been working on looking at the senate rules to facilitate getting the bill on the floor, having a debate and hopefully passing it. i think you'll see us doing it no later than martin luther king day. >> all right. are you going to get joe manchin on board to change the rules by martin luther king day, and what's your best case to him in. >> my best base to him is that these voting restrictions all around the country are -- that before joe manchin was a senator, that he was a governor. we can't simply allow partisan efforts, whether it's an attack on the capitol to disenfranchise people. we can't allow the democracy destroyers to win. we've got to be democracy protectors. am i going to get joe manchin? that's for joe manchin. but i will say this. we've had really good discussions about how to look at senate rules not in a way to destroy the filibuster. some of our rules are to restore the filibuster to what it was in the senate's history. we're looking at different options. we're going to have to -- in 1965 the bill was on the floor for five weeks. if we want to do something momentous, we have to do the work. i'm getting ready for a long floor fight for this. >> you're talking a lot about joe manchin. kyrsten sinema on board with a rules change. do you think you can get her on board? >> senator sinema is also -- i've talked a lot to her and others are, too. i want to let senator sinema speak for herself, but she's in a slightly different position maybe than joe. i think she's always been more forward-leaning on the voting bills themselves. she was a co-sponsor of the for the people act, but she's tougher on the willingness to make rules adjustments. she wrote a piece in "the washington post" last june about why she wouldn't abolish the filibuster. in my discussions with her, my point is we don't have to abolish the filibuster. senate rules are often changed. you don't have to abolish the filibuster. would you be open to restoring it to what it used to be or other paths that facilitate passage? and again, there's no deal yet. there won't be one until we announce there's a deal, but the discussions are very cordial and candid and respectful. and she is very worried. arizona was the first of the states that got challenged. the electoral vote challenged on january 6th. damaging those democracy attacks are. >> look, you're a guy that always seems to -- that if somebody is going to offer you a half a loaf, you'll say okay, let's think about it. the electoral count act. do you have more ten republicans that want to fix it? people agree it needs to be fixed. for doing these voting rules. it does seem as if, you know, i know senator schumer said no, he doesn't want to touch that because he thinks somehow it's a replacement. why can't you say yes to both? >> i think we could. it is the case that it's not a replacement, because the voting rights issues going on around the country, for example raphael warnock and jon ossoff elections in georgia, not letting people register during a runoff, they're trying to do that. the electoral count fix would be a good thing once every four years but people's rights to vote goes far beyond that. it's a good thing, if we can do it as part of comprehensive voting legislation or separately, i think it's a good thing. >> i have to ask you about the i-95 thing. governor northam is not accepting that anything weren't wrong. he said this on a radio show, we won't play it because we're running short on time, he said we knew a storm was coming, we put warnings out, why don't you ask individuals, why did you feel it was so important to drive through such a snowstorm? senator, care to respond? >> well, chuck, let me just say this. the reason i got on i-95 in richmond at 1:00 on monday afternoon is we had votes in the senate. that was shortly after i heard the vote was scrapped. but i also had a voting rights meeting that night at 8:30 and there was no signage, electronic signage or anything along the highway that said you can't get there in seven hours. it's normally a two-hour trip. i have a navigational system on my car, that was suggesting there is a drive time to dc slower than it would normally be but the navigational system was not coming up and saying turn around and go home or get off and to a hotel. of course if weather is bad you want to think about is it important to be on the road. i thought trying to make it for votes and after those votes were scrapped, i thought trying to make it to dc to talk about voting rights, i thought it was important. >> bottom line, do you think the state did enough? it doesn't sound like you think they did. >> look, they'll analyze that, they'll determine it. they're going to get a chance to test it soon. i didn't say anything critical. >> no, i know you didn't. happy warrior is a great definition of that, that's for sure. obviously the governor a little crankier about the questions. anyway, senator tim kaine, appreciate you coming on, glad you're warm and healthy. we'll be right back. you're watching "meet the press daily." the press daily. welcome back. in turning to the unrest abroad that we mentioned at the top of the show, dozens of protesters and law enforcement have died in violent clashes in kazakhstan. in an address to the nation, the president of kazakhstan authorized law enforcement to shoot to kill without warning, calling the protesters bandits and terrorists. the president is seeking to quell the protests. they began on sunday, initially over rising gas prices. they soon escalated with government buildings including the president's residence set ablaze. secretary of state tony blinken just wrapped up remarks on russia's disinformation campaign against nato and he reiterated support for kazakhstan's constitutional institutions. again, russia playing a bit of a role in that kazakhstan mess. and it is impacting what they're trying to do and manipulate with ukraine. we'll be back monday with more "meet the press daily." of course if it's sunday, it's "meet the press" at your local nbc station. do not miss it. msnbc's coverage continues with katy tur after this break. but all my employees need something different. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this. your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, like asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. yeah i should've just led with that. with at&t business. you can pick the best plan for each employee and get the best deals on every smart phone. playback! ♪ woo ♪ the feel great hit of the holidays is still in theaters. you can pick the best plan for each employee ♪ yeah. yeah. yeah. yeah. ♪ yeah. now, you can watch at home too. time to show the world what we're made of. activating "piggy power." good to be with you. i'm katy tur. we begin this hour with a rare emergency session at the u.s. supreme court. justices convened today to hear arguments about two biden administration mandates aimed at stopping the spread of covid-19 and getting more americans vaccinated. the first case concerns a federal requirement that all employers with over 100 workers require vaccines or regular testing and masks for the unvaccinated. those rules would impact roughly 84 million people. the second case is specific to health care. health care workers, that is. providers that get money from medicare and medicaid. that mandate, currently frozen by a lower court, would affect 17 million people. at issue is whether osha and hhs have the legal authority to make these chan