Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20240709 : comparemela.com

joe. >> with us, we have our katty kay and host of msnbc's politics nation and president, the national network, reverend sharpton and host of "way too early," jonathan lemire. >> katty, how was your christmas? >> i didn't cry anywhere silently in any corner. it was great, my son had covid. we had a craft, we put bubble wrap between the front and backseat of the car. that was my idea of trying to create sort of a secure environment. he came home and he was in his room but at least he was in the house with us. >> that's great. >> yeah. you got to make do. >> we do what we can. >> fantastic. >> we do what we can said every parent ever born. reverend al, what about you? how was your christmas? >> great, we did what we did every year, we fed hundreds of hungry and homeless people and a lot of elderly just don't have anyone to eat christmas with. mayor-elect adams and lieutenant governor joined me several hours to give dishes. we could not let them to sit in the headquarters to eat but we gave them hot meals and we gave free covid testing in front of the headquarters. we spent the day doing what we believe christmas is a day you give, the wiseman came and brought gifts to christ and not came to receive gifts. that's what we tried to do on christmas. >> it sounds about as much of the spirit of christmas is anything that any of us could do and is certainly in contrast so many images and many things we have seen over the past week or so. jonathan lemire, like reverend al, you handed out covid tests and unfortunately to your two young children, you slipped it out the door, take the covid test and when they finish, they can come out to see santa. they were thankfully were negative. but, my son did have a different approach. they received gifts. it was a triumph of capitalism this week in my house. santa was very generous to them. it was a nice couple of days, a couple of good meals. they got a bunch of wonderful toys they were excited about including the red sox jersey that moved them to tears. so we did have a good christmas. how about you, joe? >> we had a very good christmas. several years ago i told my kids i didn't want presents. i didn't want stuff to write me a letter if they wanted to give me christmas presents. that said, even with that hard rule. this was the beatles holiday. i got paul mccartney lyrics book and i have it where ever i go. it was a very beatles and some letters and always the white sox, the exercise socks that my kids always steal. >> wait a minute, i got you overall to jump into the lobster boat. >> yes, mika got me. jonathan, i am surprised you were able to get covid tests for your children. everything i have heard there is not any covid tests to be found. >> no, there were ordered days and finally showed up in the right time. we tried earlier in the week after one of my kids' classes close to get a test could not for the whole day until we were able to find a place. in-person rapid test is near possible, that takes a couple of days to get a response. don't bother to look for them. your best hope is try to order it online. we should note, prices really skyrocketing. this seems to be a moment where people are taking advantage of the situation and gouching consumers in terms of trying to get access to these covid tests. what people need more the holiday driving to and from christmas. >> the holiday fairs it. prices. katty, what have you heard from your friends and family members from britain, how did they weather the omicron storm? i say how did they weather it, my god, we know have omicron. it's like -- it's usually just the sniffles and everything. i was talking to a dear friend who had a family reunion, 22 people were supposed to be there, four can show up. everybody else -- >> wow. >> it was jay, mika. >> everybody else in lockdown. it's crazy. is that the same story in britain? >> it's the same story everywhere. my sister lives in morocco, morocco shuts border. you can't fly in or fly out whatever nationality you are. my husband called scotland, half of his nephews and nieces all have omicron. the u.k. you can get testing and it's free. you can pick up free rapid tests in any pharmacies. they are readily available. the testing level revealing more cases, they don't seem to be stopping a surge in covid because there are tons of covid. i don't know a family that's not affected by this. everybody had to scale back their christmas plans and their holiday plans. people not seeing each other that much. my mother's cousins, they didn't come. it's into the disrupted annoyingly christmas. let's hope next year is better. let's hope. and obviously you have the good news is and at least the people we spoken with are more inconvenience than anything else that not even -- it would not rise and all the people i have talked to a healthcare scare, it was sort of an annoyance, some sort of irritating for people vaccinated with the booster, just sort of irritated that they were locked on. >> we have dr. fauci today. >> yeah, i expect it's going to go down to five days. it's not march 2020. it's basically more of an irritant now for the overwhelming number of people who get this. >> no, it is and near irritant and it's a major concern particularly for those who have children going to school and you see where some people in new york is mandated everyone in private businesses, employees have to have a proof of vaccination so it has altered everyone's life but it's better to be safe than sorry. what is interesting is that those in the antivax movement are seeing vexed and by donald trump coming out saying he's vaccinated and continuing and alex jones and everyone and my mother alabama calling on a hixy fit that trump turned on their base. >> we'll talk about that political twist there. the basics of coronavirus, the highly contagious of the same time less severe omicron variant continues as we discuss in covid cases and increase testing over the holidays uncovered 200,000 infections per day. in new york state, more than 400,000 people tested and not including the rapid home rapid test. one and eighth of those came back positive. nearly 50,000 new cases on sunday, breaking the record it sets the day before. florida reported nearly 33,000 new cases on christmas day. also broke its record from the previous day. dr. aziz shah says maybe time to shift the most common metrics used to track the pandemic. >> for two years, infections proceeded hospitalizations and proceeded deaths. you can look at it and know what was coming. omicron changes that. this is the shift we are waiting for. few vaccinated and boosters, you may get infection, it may be a couple of days of not feeling so great but you are going to bounce back. that's very different than what we have seen in the past. so i know no longer think infections generally should be the major metric. obviously we can continue to track infection among unvaccinated people because those people will end up in the hospital at the same rate. we have to focus on hospitalizations and deaths now. >> katty, during this spring, the horrible spring of 2020, i would always look -- just incredible charts where you can follow what was happening. italy and france and across europe, you would see the infections going up and then a week or two, you would see the hospitalization going up and there would be a delay and later the deaths would go up. that's how it was and even through delta. you will see a correlation between infections and hospitalizations and deaths during delta surge. that's just not the case anymore. all the charts i am looking at everyday just to see how we are doing before we come on the show shows there is just not a connection. not that same linear connection between infections and hospitalizations and deaths. i think dr. jsha may be on something. we'll be looking at more hospitalizations and icu visits and deaths instead. >> i remember we had this conversation with ezeke manuel, what's the aim here? is the aim to stop infections or to stop people going to the hospital. the real important metric is how much we can keep people out of the hospitals or keeping people from getting infected. if you have been vaccinated and do get infected, the chances are particularly with omicron it's going to be a much milder case. in a way the anti-vaxed movement is fuelled by this focus because we have seen so many breakthrough infection. there is an easy answer to people, you see vaccinations don't work and even people who are getting vaccinated, they are getting infected. we can say to those people, listen, you are right. people are getting infected, look at what's happening to them in terms of hospitalizations. those rates are way down. we are already seeing the data from south africa which seems almost through the omicron surge. it never led to a huge surge in numbers of people being hospital sized in south africa which was our early test case here. indication from europe seems to be the same thing. i think it's not about getting people where they are infected but it's about getting people being sent to the hospital. how long people have to stay in quarantined. if you are not getting a bad infection and people around you are vaccinated, there is a strong argument to reduce the isolation in quarantine times. >> i was going to say that exactly that we have been, mika, the numbers have been ten days from the beginning for just protections of your loved ones and those of underlying conditions. there was a talk about moving it down to seven days. possibly five days. that's absolutely critical. as we move forward and we have been staying here for a month or two, the key is to learn how to live with this. i think we are starting to figure out how to live with that when we get the medication and the pills that people can take, all the other treatments that are already out there online allowing and i think is going to allow us to cut these isolation days in half. if that happens, it really does at that point really make a big difference on the spread of this virus not shutting down. >> right. >> shutting down businesses and churches and sporting events, it seems to make sense. we talked about former president trump, he once again defended coronavirus vaccines even as it leads to reputes from his followers. in an interview with right-wing commentator, owens, trump praised the vaccines and push back on skepticism among his supporters. >> people have died under covid, under biden and when people took the vaccines this year, people are questioning -- >> the vaccines work. the ones that get very sick and goes to the hospital are the ones that don't take it. if you take the vaccines, you are protected. the results are very good. if you do get it and it's a minor form. the vaccine is one of the greatest achievement of mankind. and donald trump obviously is correct there and of course making people spreading conspiracy theories about the vaccines for years freak out. the interview were there later on attacked him for being old and out of touch and et cetera and et cetera for following the facts. and conspiracy theorists, the guy who tortured and abused the parents whose tragically gun down in sandy hook and called them phonies. alex jones ruled out against trump. here he is in a christmas day message. >> an emergency christmas day warning to president trump. you are either completely ignorant about the so-called vaccine gene therapy that you helped ram through with operation warp speed or you are one of the most evil men who ever lived to push this toxic poison on the public and attack your constituents when they simply try to save their lives and the lives of others. what you told candace owens a few days ago is nothing but a raft of dirty lies. >> a dirty liar condemning somebody telling the truth. a guy who was actually made his living -- from telling lie after lie and now reverend al, you and i have known donald trump for a long time. i had the laugh last week when people said oh, this is donald trump saying this and he'll change tomorrow and whatnot. donald trump obviously understands what he needs to do to get back to the white house and there is been a debate, is he going to run again or not run again. this is what dick morris would call triangulation. if you lost the suburbs because you were embraing the people that attacked him right there, you move away from them and you let them insult you so people in the atlantic suburbs and people in the philly suburbs abandoned him, they take note of that, they go wait a second, maybe donald trump is not crazy. for people who would say this is donald trump and throwing stuff at the wall, you under estimate donald trump. >> absolutely, no questions about it. donald trump knows he can't scare those in the suburbs and those independent voters and women's voters and have the shot at being back in the white house and running a campaign in 24. that's what this is all about. let's not forget while i was certainly glad to see him say this and said it was a christmas gift. let's not forget this is the guy when he was in the white house talking about people taking bleach and denying this all the way until this. he enjoys the support of the people on the fringe. what they come to understand, the young lady interviewing him, it's just like he kicked a lot of people in new york that he would deal with to the curb when he wanted to go conservative. he'll kick the fringe to the curb for donald trump. that's nothing that's sacred to donald trump but donald trump. if he's got to step back to do the michael jackson's moon walk on demonizing vaccinations, he'll do that. this is all calculated. he was one of the deniers himself until he was not. >> well, and jonathan lemire, as we move past this election, how far are we past this election? about a little over a year now, there is been a lot of anger and rage. it seems that he's looking back and maybe saying wait a second, i embraced these people on the virus, on these conspiracy theories and i lost. i lost to the suburbs, i lost in places that republicans won again. you keep ongoing back to ron johnson explaining on camera to somebody that donald trump under performed every other republican in that state, statewide by 55 or 65,000 votes. that's the difference. again, i am not -- people are so easily triggered and even in this blessed holiday week. i am not saying this is right. i am not saying if this is good, though i do think it's good. he's finally aggressively defending the vaccines. i am trying to explain that if you think this is mr. magoo going from one board or another, you are under estimating donald trump. he stated this long enough that this is a calculation when he's attacked by candace owens and the other guy like that plays right into his plan. >> donald trump even in his best interest, he can't stay on it. she pushed back, no, vaccines are bad. he stayed on message. this is good. he was clear that people should not be forced to take it but he was encouraging them to do so. we should not give them too much credit. a welcoming development, people in the biden administration have one thought. he may be the one voice that some of the unvaccinated will listen to. we know how reluctant trump has condemned any of his supporters and even the most dangerous. remember the debate with joe biden when he was asked to condemn the proud boys and he didn't, he told them to stand back or standby or whatever it was. will he stay with it despite his push back. if that's the case, that does add credence to your theory. this is calculated and looking ahead to 2024. >> exactly. >> it's different like what you said. when he early on was defending the vaccines, the people booed i am and he backed off. at the bill o'reilly event, a few people booed him and he pointed them out and told them to stop it. in this interview, he stayed on message. that's something new and again i strongly think let's talk about one little stretch. we used to talk about the philly suburbs. let's talk about the suburbs that matter the most right now, i think is a turning point in american politics. and those are the suburbs in atlanta. the north atlanta suburbs that i was born in that was democratic and when it went republicans or republicans started wins elections and when it won democratic again. you saw democrats won the white house. those were the stretch of people who were saying, wait a second, a line of alex jones and all these other right-wing conspiracytheorists, i am going to go with democrats. again understanding of what's going on, you look at all of the virginia exit polls and you look at the focus groups. you have people that voted for joe biden and voted for youngkin. they all voted for youngkin and they all criticized on the afghanistan and the coronavirus. they asked the same people do you regret your vote. everyone of them said no. they would vote against donald trump again. that's what he needs to get past if he's going to run again in 2024. we can sit around and look into a crystal ball and trying to figure out is he going to run again or not? when he does this, when he's triangulating people, the right-wing con spoir sis. >> we'll join with dr. fauci and mayor bill de blasio is joining us and the lingering of holiday travels as many remained stranded on christmas day. the new studies may have you thinking about the new year's resolutions. this is crazy. >> running and alcohol consumption goes together. >> okay, my life makes sense now. we'll explain that when "morning joe" comes back. ♪♪ i'm so glad we're finally on vacation. yeah, and kayak made it so easy - searching hundreds of travel sites to find us a great flight. my ears still won't pop after the flight but i don't even care.... what? kayak. search one and done. we hit the bike trails every weekend shinges doesn't care. i grow all my own vegetables shingles doesn't care. we've still 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[cheering] that was awesome. and, the hits won't quit, with peacock premium included at no additional cost. all that entertainment built in. xfinity. a way better way to watch. you're gonna need a smaller cabinet. because now you can take all those supplements you're taking, or not taking, and replace them with this. ag1 by athletic greens brings 75 vitamins, minerals, whole food sourced ingredients, probiotics, and adaptogens together in one place. it might just be the most comprehensive and convenient nutritional regimen on the planet. immunity supporting, recovery enhancing, digestion improving, energy lifting. made to the strictest quality standards. made in new zealand. made for just about everybody. 31 past the hour, a live look at washington, d.c., a little bit of traffic this morning. now to two other questions amid the covid outbreak, the major impact of travels and what about students who'll be returning from the holiday break. we have reports on both of those fronts. our nbc's correspondent on the schools. first, here is nbc's sam brock on the travel mess. >> reporter: omicron surge in the midst of a travel rush probably to blame for another spike in cancellations. >> the reasons of cancellations was availability due to covid. >> reporter: more than 2,000 domestic flights wiped away. >> jet blue has cancelled 10% of their flights. that's a huge amount of people that are inconvenience. >> reporter: delta and united and american have seen two to five cancellations on sunday. >> there is been delays and the lines and flights. pretty much just regular christmas flying. >> reporter: how worried are you about traveling with covid spreading like wildfire. >> it's a concern. >> reporter: as airports are packed. so are testing lines. the demand of over drive for those seeing loved ones. >> we have got to do better. i think things will improve greatly as we get into january. that does not help us today and tomorrow. >> reporter: from family gatherings to football field, there is massive spread. the latest college football games to go dark after boston college had 40 players available due to covid injuries and the seven day average fuels by omicron of 200,000 a day. could not come to a worst time because people are getting together and traveling. >> schools across the country are preparing for students return bracing for omicron. #. >> the line -- >> reporter: california's governor announcing a statewide initiative and ordering 6 million free tests to kids returning to school. >> it hurts a teensy there. >> it's nice they are providing this to people. the holidays are a big concern. >> reporter: in covid california, 50,000 free tests haves gone out to students and staffs. the school district installing filters in classrooms, taking all precautions for the shutdown. >> when i tell you having kids in classrooms is critical. the data confirms that, too. >> reporter: across the country, estimated of 200,000 students now keeping a close eyes on the rise in covid cases and considering a vaccine mandate for all eligible students after the break. what's your message to the families? >> my message are number one we are going to do everything we can to keep schools open. >> reporter: as fears loom that students will have to go back to remote learning, some schools are already are. ucla, columbia and northwestern are joining a growing list of colleges and universities temporarily going virtual the first week of the semester. >> as you make your new year's eve plans, research shows that the more fit the person is, the more they tend to drink. scientists said the cooper institute of dallas tested more than 38,000 americans, their research found, the fittest women consumed between 4 and 7 drinks per week. that's about twice as likely as less active women. the studies show the fittest men consumed up to 14 drinks a week, more than twice the amount of men who are less fit. as for why this is the case, researchers say more tests are needed. one of the top scientists behind the studies say quote, many of us put a halo, making us justifying an extra cocktail or three? >> everybody, i am just curious. i don't understand this because you run of course -- >> i run a lot. >> i love running. >> you come home and you allow yourself to splurge on leaves and twigs and that's all exciting. i don't get this. katty kay, there is been quite a few studies of the new york times article through the year that people work out more, drink more. it seems to go against what you think the natural inclusion would be. i get that psychology though that you have gone and done your work out so you feel virtous. i am glad to say that i don't run five miles. i get that psychology. you are sort of kidding yourselves that you are making yourself healthy by doing the exercise and therefore the drinking does not really count. exercise totally makes no sense in terms of health but i get the psychology of it. >> jonathan lemire, what about you? >> you have any explanation for this? >> the study went onto say that onto katty's point, people who are healthy and exercise don't smoke and they eat healthy. they have to have some sort of vice and they allow themselves oh, i will have that extra drink or something. i have been sidelined with a leg injury but i run plenty too and i am not going to tell you what's in this coffee mug right now. >> exactly. >> it makes no sense to me. i have not been sidelined over the last couple of weeks and i am not running. rev, you are a healthy man, but also a man of the cloth, i suspect that when you get up your treadmill every morning, your vices reading the good book. >> i work out every morning and you and i have to be here at 5:30. i do not drink at all. i have not taken a drink or even socially for many, many years. what it's is the psychology of why you work out. i work out because i want to be healthy, i used to be obese and i am conscious of that. work out so they feel they can do these other things. they say i work out so i can eat more things than i should. i think it's based on what it is. when i get on the elliptical and get ready to lift weights is why i am doing this. i think that's what you have to put in mind. some people do work out so they can drink more or they can eat the wrong food. it's all about the motivation is the reason that you do what you do. >> all right. >> okay. very good. >> that makes sense. >> whatever. >> yeah. >> serious about state elections after losing on the state level. our next guest asks the right question, are they too late. an oregon dad launched a right-wing insult at the president during a christmas call for kids. >> you can understand why, the president wished them a merry christmas and the first lady were polite to him and he told his children to go to bed and this was jesus is the reason for this season. >> um -- no. >> we'll tell you what he's saying now. the far-right gun fetish continues this holiday season. >> what is this? >> a congressional candidate celebrating while holding an ar-15. the dangerous trend of republican candidates of raising fascious language and thinking it's funny. >> and throwing jesus under the thing. i don't get it. we'll be right back. thing. i don't get it we'll be right back. find your rhythm. your happy place. find your breaking point. then break it. every emergen-c gives you a potent blend of nutrients so you can emerge your best with emergen-c. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list event. ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance so they only pay for what they need. (gasps) ♪ did it work? only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ spider-man no way home in theaters december 17th [microwave beeps] [ahh] ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm so defensive, i got bongos thumping in my chest ♪ ♪ and something tells me they don't beat for me ♪ ♪ i love romance, but i got eggshells around me ♪ ♪ don't step on 'em, don't step on 'em ♪ ♪ don't step on 'em, don't step on me ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ he'd better not take the ring from me ♪ that 40 yards, gives the cowboys 21-0 first quarter lead over the washington football team. let's go to the roger bennett nfl highlights. jonathan, it was the cowboys and the redskins, one of the biggest rivalries in football. man, i think that's the biggest victory they ever had over washington. we just saw there that interception returns and dak prescott tossed four touchdown passes. the cowboys celebrated a 56-14 win on sunday night football. how bad were things for washington? several players got no brawl on the sidelines. we go to charlotte here, you can see tom brady and the buccaneers, they roll 32-6. that's their first division title. they won the super bowl. and kansas city, joe, coupled with the los angeles' chargers and the texans earlier, they steal the afc west. kansas city looks like the team to beat in the afc. they're the top seed at the moment. >> jonathan, i got to say, i saw some of this game and it was sad to see just how bad bennett was and steelers look, bad passes and bad blocking and execution and everything. they looked like a mid-level college football team. >> ben roethlisberger had trouble playing this year with a giant fork sticking out of his back. he's been done for a solid season for more. it's been tough to see him limp to the finish. steelers still have an outside shot at the playoffs. the chiefs are rolling again. we got a bunch of other games to get to. minneapolis and the rams clinching their work under head coach mcvay. 30-23 over the vikings. they're at the top of the nfc west. the cardinals lost to the colts on saturday. and joe, i tried to get this game removed from the highlight package but i guess we'll go to foxborough any way. the bills -- they're now winning the afc east, they beat the pats yesterday. the bills hold the tied record. this is the first time ever that a bill belichick defense did not force punts. the bills did what they wanted on offense. josh allen was good. you and i both love matt jones. i am hopeful for his career. he's going to be a very good nfl quarterback. it seems like he hits the wall a little bit. he struggled yesterday. >> yes, a couple other struggling teams. let's talk about the giants. mike declared yesterday this was the worst giants offense he's ever seen in his life and my gosh, he's seen a lot of really bad giants games. >> they got real questions. i don't know if dane jones was hurt. questions about the head coach too and yesterday was embarrassing. the first half against the eagles were the first half of football ever played by any teams. philly eventually put the game away. just ugly football. i know the jets won yesterday, here in new york city, these are a rough times for nfl fans. both teams are -- >> so i know we got to go to break. just quickly you just talked about how rough that game was, the chiefs and pittsburgh game was rough. i watched red zone a little bit with jack yesterday. i got to say a lot of sub par football, i have never seen nfl teams looked this bad. jack said because of covid. is jack right there? does that theory makes sense? i watch nfl football for half a century, there were bad football being played yesterday. >> it's covid. their team lost 15 and 20 guys on the list calling up guys from practice squad to play. it affected the overall quality of play. the other piece of this is remember this nfl season is longer than usual. they tackled on games. seems like guys are wearing down. there is still two weeks to play. the season has been a slog. a couple of teams looking good, chiefs and bucks and the packers. no great teams this year. everyone is sort oh, okay. covid plays a role and guys are injured during a long season. >> i got to say the season is too long. i don't mean to be a grandpa here, they need to go back to 14 games. the players are bigger, they're faster and hitting harder. it's more dangerous, the impact and the grind is worser than it ever been. it would really help to have less games. i know it's not enough billions in the pockets of the nfl. it really is and you can really see the fatigue coming down on these games. go ahead, the looming nuclear threat from iran. new reporting of confrontation and why the timing could not be worse. "morning joe" is coming right back. 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before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy. and save at trelegy.com. welcome back to "morning joe," a beautiful sun rise. coming out over new york city, of course, mika's comcast condo. i remember several years ago talking about how mika is always into the south of france on her day off and people believed it. to those who may believe she actually lives there. well, of course she lives there. why would i say it if she didn't. i hope you had a great christmas and hope you are off today, have a couple days off to relax. it's monday, december 27th, jonathan lemire and katty kay is with us and reverend sharpton, we have with us, eddie luce. ed luce, how was christmas? >> it was good. i am in england and traditional and continually raining. the lights practically no existence. >> how was yours? >> so rain, darkness and fog. well, it sounds wonderful. phillip, can you come close to that for a christmas holiday? >> hi there, i got a four-year-old and a two-year-old, i barely slept the past 48 hours. >> wow. >> very good. katty, tell me about the realm. rain, fog, bleak darkness, i mean -- is that why you escaped to the united states and have all of that here? >> guys, we were hoping to start this 7:00 a.m. with a little bit of cheerfulness and goodwill and how wonderful life is and not rain and fog. but um -- look, here bright and sunny. kind of weird in washington, d.c., it was 70 degrees on christmas day which was great. we went for a nice long walk in our t-shirts but also a little strange. i am not quite sure how it's meant to be. >> speaking of weird, katty, twitter which i have not been on much over the past several days and every time i came on, i was reading about the same story about a bizarre, some dude -- some dude had the president of the united states on the line wishing his family a merry christmas and being sweet to his kids and saying get to bed for your mom and dad and just could not have been more gracious was met with an f-you on christmas eve from some guy that says he love jesus. i must say i flip through the gospels once or twice and i have not lined those up exactly in the spirit of christmas. never done that on christmas eve. >> so you read the twitter version, here is the full version of the story, not the christmas spirit we were looking for either. he insisted he was just joking around. according to an interview with oregon live, the father of four meant no disrespect when he used the right-wing slogan for f-joe biden. he describes themselves as free thinking americans and followers of jesus chris adding at the end of the day, i have nothing against mr. biden but i am frustrated because i think he could be doing a better job. >> i don't know about a follower of jesus christ, when somebody is nice to you and calls you up and wishing you merry christmas, what does a follower of jesus chris usually say, joe? you know better than this. >> it's bizarre because i have been looking at this. i start and i guess i am old-fashioned and i think back to my parents who are conservative people. i don't think they voted for democrats other than my mom voted for jfk in the 1960s because she thought he's cute. would never admit it to my father. my parents, oh my lord, if i had done something like that, they would grab me by the ear and drag me out. i would be in my room for a month reading bible verses. i mean it's just -- it's really weird, eric erickson, confession: i find in poor taste to tell the president of the united states, let's go brandon, when the man wanted to wish you a merry christmas. rev, that's the thing. if you know conservatives since the 1950s talked about standards and customs and conventions being shattered by radical leftists and this is the sort of thing that conservatives with the small "c" and people supporting customs and traditions, at least in my day be deeply offended by churches. i have seen churches chanting this and again if somebody wants to own the libs. this is one of those i thinks thinks -- things, you are revealing your character in a way that man -- i would have my parents put me over their lap and spank me for doing something like this. i guess my grandma would ask, where were these people raised? in a barn? >> when you look at the fact that this person in the interview says that he's a believer in christianity or christ, you know how do you on the eve of celebrating the birth of christ even think like that. whatever your politics may be it certainly shows a spirit that is not in line with what you claim to believe in. i agree with you that my mother would have been outraged if i ever done something like that. more importantly would reflect that i really don't believe what i claim to believe. i can't think of anything other than easter sunday that should be more serious to a true believer in christ and turning that into telling somebody a profane kind of statements whether he meant to or not to think about it on christmas eve. i would have to question his sincerity. >> more in the veins of words mattering. we see republican candidates using fatuous language. they're celebrating the prince of peace holding an ar-15. posting from my family to yours, merry christmas. celebrating jesus, #fjb and in the same tweet i am sure the reverend's parents would not like this anyway. this follows gun photos of republican congressman thomas massey and lauren bobert and there is this 2019 photo for a man who's running for congress in south carolina mocking of toxic masculinity. his daughter surrounded by him and his two sons holding guns and there is this candidate from nevada, noah malgeri, republicans calling for an investigation into mark millie who was accused in a book of undermining donald trump. the candidate says there is no need for an investigation, instead, millie should be found for treason and if found guilty should be hang. the problem is the ongoing corrosion of our culture. if this was just one person but we have a rash of people saying things and posting things and posting photos of themselves. we spoke about this a little bit. it's the same phenomenon of kyle rittenhouse of people being involved in violence and celebrated by the right. >> again, based on my past when we grew up. we thought this is something that extremists on the left and not that guns and everything else but breaking customs and being radical and attacking institutions and attacking the military and attacking intel community and it's just flipped on and kevin williams said the right is having its hippy moment right now. i do want to talk about the guns. all the people who now think they get elected by holding up military style weapons and placing military style weapons in the hands of their children. this is more than just stupidity. it's ominous. they can say hey, they're not coming out for guns, that's what people say in 1994 when they were running for congress. they're not coming after my guns. that's what people always said. the more guns today than ever before. nobody is in danger of having their guns taken away. united states supreme court actually acknowledged second amendment rights for the first time in the courts for almost two history, so there is really no justification for holding these military-style assault weapons, semiautomatic assault weapons other than sort of basically being a foghorn for political violence. i don't like to say and i don't like to understand it. i understand it all too well. >> it's of any image and the one that started it all of the highlights that katty was showing. there is nothing more disturbed of people about america than the image of people thinking that kids should have guns and guns should be concealed and carried in any public place. there is no place that would be sacred from guns according to those people. it's the most insane sight of america looked at from the outside and many americans and include most of i know from the inside. the reason it's getting worse of this sort of culture and chilling imagery is the right needs to keep their agitation and the fear they're coming for your guns and bibles and they're coming to inject you with chips and they got population replacement programs. this is the political strategy of the right. it does not succeed by arguing on emperical conservative issues. it's gone in top a completely different mode. it involves doubling down on cultural extremism. that's the logic of politics on the right nowadays. the guns are the most horrendous expression of that. it should not surprise us. >> yeah, phillip, for me it's not about owning the lib. as for as my reaction, always been a strong supporter of the second amendment. but, my god, the people i grew up with in first baptist church and pensacola, florida or mississippi, they would never when i was growing up -- they would keep their shotguns locked up. they would not put a weapon in their child's hand. they would not do it. for a thousand different reasons it's grotesque and to be doing this under the guy being a follower of jesus christ seems to take it all to a new disturbing level. i am just wondering what your take is on the political imagery and what it says about where the republican party is in 2021. i am sure not hearing republican leaders condemning this madness. >> all right. i think it's exactly the point that the right is now really focused on these cultural war issues. in this case with firearms, it's really is important and ties back to the point you are making about this of erosion of trusts and intuitions. when people are making these claims and standing up for the second amendment, they often say that this is because they want to make sure they are standing up to an oppressive government. we see people embrace of the need to have firearms and in order to offset this overbearing public state. we saw the response of folks like marjorie taylor greene from georgia. okay, all you second amendment here, you know how to respond to that. we see the overlap over decline of confidence and this particular issue with guns which i think raised it to a whole new level of concerns particularly at this moment. the midterms election is approaching. democrats have their word cut out for them if they want to keep control in congress. democrats are finally getting serious about state elections. are they too late in the editor at the new york times, blake hounshell is joining us now. what are democrats doing differently? >> you are hearing from a lot of democrats, they understand the state elections are the most important and they need to build up the party from the ground rather than top down. i would not say that's a fully appreciated position in the party but what's happening right now is a lot of states seeing gerrymander and structure disadvantage that's put into place by republican legislatures and now they are waking up to the reality that after the 2022 midterms they could be wiped out in a lot of states. >> yeah, you know so interesting about a month ago where we heard democrats and left of center commentators complaining of redistricting and jury instructions and whether they are given out in wisconsin and georgia and other things of elections being stolen in 2024, the fear of all of these laws being changed and who would actually count the votes. there seems to be this disconnect between that reality and democrats understanding the reason that was happening. the reason all of that was happening because they lost well over a thousand seats over the obama administration and state legislatures across the country. why from what you have seen, why did it take democrats so long to figure out this was existential crisis politically for them. >> they have to reach rock bottom, joe, after the 2010 midterms. they lost 63 house seats and 680 state legislative seats. and, so they just realize that we are on the verge of extinction of the state level and if we don't get our act together, we are not going to be able to retake the house majority. they did it in 2018 in trump's midterms. they're looking at a nasty midterm under biden here. >> jake, good to see you. >> hey jonathan. >> we know on local issues playing a significant role in that governor race. these local elections are becoming more and more nationalized. what are democrats' strategies there. there are big issues like inflation and vote rights and biden's agenda. how do democrats balance this between the national and the localists as they try to clean out some of these seats. >> i think a lot of democrats are just trying to go hyper-local, they're going to try to make their races about constituents and local issues. officially they'll tell you we can go tail to tail with education and taxes and these sorts of issues. if washington continues to be deadlock, it's going to be really tough to say the parties doing well. >> all right, blake hounshell, thank you so much for your reporting. hope to have you back very soon. we talked about donald trump's new found defense of covid vaccines. phillip, you have a new analysis for the washington post, it's called it's still trump's base that most needs to be convinced to get vaccinated. what did you find out and what did you write about? >> the foundations have been doing good polls looking at who's still in resistance of getting the vaccine. we hear of talks of hispanic people and black people likely to get vaccinated contrast to white people. that's because democrats are so eager vaccinated. white republicans are getting vaccinated. what we see is the composition of the unvaccinated population is heavily white republicans in a way it was not true at the beginning of last year. the beginning of last year, white republicans and white democrats are about the same number of not getting vaccinated and now we see this effort from trump trying to promote the vaccine. the fact that he's so against this idea of the medical experts can tell you what's best on vaccination, he down played the pandemic and now he's trying to say the right thing to his base getting vaccinated, the problem is too late. we are seeing that reflected in these vaccination numbers. >> all right, thank you so much phillip, greatly appreciate it. "the washington post's" phillip. thank you so much. as omicron record breaking surges of infection, dr. fauci joins us next with some answers. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. why choose proven quality sleep from sleep number? because my sleep number 360 smart bed is temperature balancing so i stay cool. and senses my movement and effortlessly adjusts to help keep me comfortable. the sleep number 360 welcome to silversneakers. are you ready to get moving? 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indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire proceeded deaths. you can look at infections and know what was coming. and even of the delta wave. omicron changes that. we are moving to a phase where few vaccinated and boosted, you may get infections. i may be a couple of days not feeling so great but you are going to bounce back. that's very different than what we have seen in the past. so i no longer think infection should be the major metrics. obviously we continue to track infections among unvaccinated people. but, we really have to focus on hospitalizations and deaths now. >> let's bring in the director of allergy and infectious diseases and chief medical adviser of the president, dr. fauci. i am guessing with omicron, you had a christmas tree and then the left of it you had like three giant screens, the top one of infections and the next with hospitalizations and the next one with death. you didn't have a lot of time to open presents and relax this christmas season. >> that's true. that's true, joe. very much so. it's a difficult situation. we had super imposed on delta surge that was really quite serious going up before we even had omicron. omicron is different. it had an extraordinary capability of transmitting efficiently from person to person which is the challenging part of it. the part that may be actually a silver lining possibly, you don't want to get too overly optimistic about it. it appears at least from what we are seeing in our colleagues in south africa that the severity of the disease is less. that could be due to the fact that so many people in south africa who had previous infections with delta and with beta that they have the underlying residual and reacting immunity that's not protecting from getting infected but protecting them from getting seriously ill. we are starting to see a little bit of that in the u.k. we are seeing it in our own country. it very well may be we are focusing on hospitalizations on the parameter that we want to follow and if they stay low and do not go backup, but we are not there yet and we are still getting increases at hospital sanitations. s hospitalization. we are in a tough situation with omicron. it's not something to be taken lightly. >> it's remarkable how easily it spreads and any family i talked to to wish them a merry christmas to the past couple of days, everybody has been hit by it. i am curious of what's your thoughts about the united kingdom moving the days that people need to be on lockdown from 10 to 7 days. the cdc says that we can do that with our healthcare workers. do you see that as something the united states will be moving generally, moving the date of isolation from 10 to 7 days? >>. >> with healthcare work we'll be doing that. it's under serious consideration for workers. when you have a work force to keep the country moving, everybody knows somebody now who's infected. there are so many people infected and including breakthrough infections. when you have isolation but particularly when you are talking about quarantining, people have been exposed. one of the things you have to be careful of, you have so many people who are in exposed, not necessarily affected but they have to stay out of action for ten days. if they have an essential job, we want to get them back to the job before the ten days period. that was being discussed seriously now by the cdc. >> i am wondering your thoughts of south africa of so many people infected and perhaps omicron is not having an impact on individuals as they may have a year ago. that seems to be the case here in the united states, i am wondering if this sort of events that we have already had people with so many infections already. you had many people that have had vaccines and vaccinations and you had boosters and i am just wondering -- do you think that's why omicron is having less serious effects so far based on the evidence we have so far and say infection a year ago. >> well, i think it's a confluence of issues. a lot of people who are vaccinated in this country, 60% of the vaccination is vaccinated and this underlying immunity which i think is the case and we are seeing a lot of that in south africa and/or there is an inherit limitation and lowering of the variance of the virus itself. we don't know what contribution each of that is making. i believe a lot of that is due to the prior experience that you had with the virus. you have been vaccinated and you have been boosted and the number of people have actually gotten infection and recovered. the group that we are really concerned about are the unvaccinated people because even if this virus is inherently less severe, just that volume of the numbers of cases that we are going to have could put a stress on the hospital system. you know if you have 50 people who get infected and five of them whining up getting seriously ill and you have a lowering of that percentage but you have a thousand of people getting infected, you will have quantitatively of more people going to the hospitals. that's who we are concerned about particularly among the unvaccinated. >> dr. fauci, katty here, can i ask you of this quarantining period. it makes sense for healthcare workers but for the general population, this long ten-day isolation period is tough on people. it's tough from a learning point of view and from a mental health point of view. i suspect with omicron that people hear is not serious and people are not doing it religiously as they were in the early stages of the virus. is there something inherently about omicron. if it's less serious that may allow you to say look, quarantine but do it properly for five days because that's the period of which we think of omicron where you are much more infectious after five days. do you think somebody is as infectious on day 8 or 9 as they are on day 4. >> this is what's being literally discussed about taking a look at the entire picture as a country how are we going to address a virus that we hope is being less severe that it's so incredibly efficient in spreading from person to person. quantitatively you want to -- we looking carefully what you just brought up. how are we going to handle the isolation as well as the quarantine from people who are exposed. >> dr. fauci, good morning, it's jonathan, great to see you as always. over the weekend, you signalled some support for vaccination requirements for domestic travels to get people to get vaccinated. u.s. requires international travelers to in the united states. do you recommend to president biden there should be a requirement for vaccinations for domestic travel. >> i am not going to tell you that, i want to be publicly telling what i am recommending to the president because if then if the president does not do it, i don't think him to look like he's going against it. the president takes all recommendations and all discussions and as a group we make a decision of what's best to do. there are pros and cons to that. you got to ask yourself why it's you are making that requirement. if you are making requirements for vaccinations for people to get on planes who are coming into the country, that's understandable. you don't want to bring more cases into the country. but, if you talk about requiring vaccinations to get on the plane domestically, that's just another one of the requirements that i think is reasonable to consider. there is requirements that you may get. when you make vaccination or requirements that's another incentive to get more people vaccinated. if you want to do that with domestic flights. i think it's something seriously should be considered. >> dr. fauci, we want to thank you for your service for america and above and beyond. we thank you so much, we hope your next holiday season is a little less filled with new variants coming from overseas. thank you so much for being with us today. >> yes. thanks joe, thank you for having me, always a pleasure to be with you. >> talk to you soon. coming up, we got developing news right now on iran's nuclear program. talks resumed this morning, iran is pressing its demands. teheran is pressing its demands. we'll talk about the challenges for the biden administration. next on "morning joe." next on "morning joe." ♪♪ ♪♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list event. 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do you think the chances are some kinds of conflicts and not difference than benjamin netanyahu and the biden administration does not seem to have any other tricks up its sleeves in terms of convincing the iranians to return to this deal. what the chances it can get very clematic and very dangerous quickly. >> you are absolutely right, if they don't get a deal renewed, the united states could face a nuclear crisis in the first quarter of 2022. the united states does not look to start a war and i don't think the ukrainians either. if we don't get a deal and iran getting closer to developing a nuclear weapon and a delivery system that could fire it at whether anywhere in the 2,000 kilometers range. is that a full scale war? not necessarily. israel is the wild card. senior leadership was here in washington where i live recently talking to the administration trying to get the u.s. to engage in joint military exercises that would effectively gain what a war with iran would look like. if iran attacks, he thought a war could go as long as a year but as we saw in iraq and afghanistan, all u.s. calculations have been grossly under estimated. i think the united states does not want to i think the united states doesn't want to engage. the united states could impose for sanctions but sanctions economic punitive measures have not by the united states alone have not gotten us where we want to be. it would take the world joining in. europeans probably might -- probably would. would the chinese and the russians? i think the dynamics between the six major powers have changed a lot. we have a crisis with ukraine. we have a crisis with russia. we have a crisis over taiwan with china that the dynamics and number of issues that have gont sucked in to the iran nuclear question. i want to point out one really important thing. this comes in context not just of iran but the world nuclear order is fraying. all the agreements that were so important in the 20th century are eroding. there's less transparency. some of the deals have terminated. we're getting to a point that all the major powers russia, china, and the united states are modernizing their nuclear arsenals. and the u.s. now estimates that china could have 1,000 bombs by 2030. that's just eight years away. so what happens on the nuclear deal is very important in nonproliferation. in preventing the not just more bombs in the world but more countries from getting a bomb. because saudi arabia said if iran gets a bomb or gets near it, it will develop a bomb. that we could see a whole new different kind of arms race that we haven't witnessed in many decades. that's why what's happening there is so important to everyone. >> i'd, of course, check china as a key part of this party agreement. it's a very different china to the china of 2015 when the agreement was struck. chie is now buying iran's oil. it doesn't look like it particularly wants a deal to happen. it seems like there is an opportunity just to pull biden's chain. another pressure point on biden. do you think china is going to come back to wanting a deal or do you think it's prepared to play a bit more recklessly? >> i think all six powers, the three europeans, russia, china, and the united states, all want to see or prevent iran from getting a bomb. and they want to use diplomacy to get there. but china, you're absolutely right, is gaming the united states in a lot of different ways. i think china is watching to see what the united states does both with russia own on iran to see just how strong the biden administration is going to be. how effective it's going to be. and china will make its decisions, its strategic decisions based on that. but president xi has shown he will defy the president on multiple fronts. including buying iranian oil which is against what the imposed sanctions. >> we're going to read the latest issue of the new york ere. robin wright, thank you for being on. we appreciate it. and ed, thank you as well. it's always great to see you. and coming up next, we have the exit interview. bill de blasio joins us in his final interview as the mayor of new york city. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. ♪ baby got back by sir mix-a-lot ♪ unlimited cashback match... only from discover. superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance. ow! i'm ok! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ only in theaters december 17th. hi susan! honey? ♪ liberyeah?iberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i respect that. but that cough looks pretty bad... try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love... plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? now get powerful relief with robitussin elderberry. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire i'm greg, i'm 68 years old. i do motivational speaking matching your job description. in addition to the substitute teaching. i honestly feel that that's my calling-- to give back to younger people. i think most adults will start realizing that they don't recall things as quickly as they used to or they don't remember things as vividly as they once did. i've been taking prevagen for about three years now. people say to me periodically, "man, you've got a memory like an elephant." it's really, really helped me tremendously. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. coronavirus wasn't the only thing that impacted travel over the holiday weekend. severe weather also hit much of the country. nbc news correspondent kathy park has that story. >> extreme weather crashing the christmas holiday. a 20-car pileup in nevada sending at least three to the hospital. while across the state line, heavy snow stranding drivers in northern california. >> it's been bad. it's been bad. but we try to make it. >> reporter: to white out conditions in washington. slick streets in seattle send cars sliding. and more bad weather out west. when a reported tornado touched down in santa barbara, california, uprooting trees, nothing down power lines and carports. in oregon, a state of emergency. but it's a major warmup for the southeast. parts of texas soaring into the 90s with more record-setting heat expected through wednesday. >> it's incredible. everybody is out having a great time. >> reporter: weather whiplash from sizzling temps to a rare white christmas. >> incredible, but also a little weird how warm it's been in d.c. over christmas. up next, the latest reporting on the flight cancellations and new york city's outgoing mayor joins the conversation. we're back in just 90 seconds. my nunormal? fewer asthma attacks with nucala. a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala reduces eosinophils, a key cause of severe asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala. find your nunormal with nucala. first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. it was really holding me back. standing up... ...even walking was tough. my joints hurt. i was afraid things were going to get worse. i was always hiding, and that's just not me. not being there for my family, that hurt. woooo! i had to do something. i started cosentyx®. i'm feeling good. watch me. cosentyx helps people with psoriatic arthritis move, look, and feel better. it targets more than just joint pain and treats the multiple symptoms like joint swelling and tenderness, back pain, helps clear skin and helps stop further joint damage. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections—some serious —and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. it's good to be moving on. watch me. move, look, and feel better. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, december 27th. i hope you're having a good holiday break. hope your holiday is still going and you haven't had to get back to work yet today. if so, it's 8:00. so on the east coast. we got an hour to get to work if you start at 9:00. if you start like we do at 6:00, you're two hours late. jonathan lamire is with us, reverend al sharpton, katty kay also with us. katty, i'm fascinated by your bubble wrap story. you literally -- you know what's funny? i've been saying mika and i, rachel and others, when we're talking about looking back at raising our kids, sometimes we talk about how maybe we bubble wrapped our kids a little bit too much growing up unlike our parents who threw us out with the wild dogs to fight for our dinner. i'm joking. but we always had that maybe we bubble wrapped our children too much. but my god, you literally bubble wrapped your child this past week. >> i'm going to get a knock on the door from health and human services this program, can i see it. it didn't literally wrap jude in bubble wrap and then put duct tape around him so he couldn't breathe. i thought it was ingenious. i'm clearly a budding engineer. i put bubble wrap between the front seats and the backseats so that anything he breathed out with his omicron wouldn't go into the -- i think that sounded pretty sensible to me as a way to get him home. >> what we should have asked dr. fauci, who, as i noted -- >> a recognized method of preventing spread of coronavirus. >> exactly. i'm sure he would have been glad to take that one on. i'm curious, jude, is jude named after a, a family member, b, the beatles song, or c, jude law? >> guess which -- guess. guess. >> jude law. >> the beatles song. and he is so fed up of it. every single time somebody meets him, they start singing it. it is now his least favorite beetles song. it's a shame. i've ruined it for him. it's a great song and he's a great kid. he's alive. i haven't suffocated my child and he's coming out of quarantine tomorrow, day 10. more travel disruption, of course, over the weekend. we start this hour with the travel nightmare that's been unfolding across the country after thousands of flights were cancelled or delayed over the christmas weekend due in part to airline employees contracting all being exposed to covid. let's bring in kerry sanders live from fort lauderdale. kerri, any relief in sight down there? >> reporter: well, here and elsewhere the problems continue. we're really in a full blown meltdown. that's not mincing words. the day after christmas we had 1500 plus flights that were cancelled, and now this morning the numbers keep climbing. as i look at it right now, we have 938 flights delayed according to flight aware. 757 flights cancelled today. so the best advice is if you're flying today, not only call the airline before you go to the airport and then later check online to see if something changed, but once you get to the airport, prepare yourself for potentially some bad news. >> this morning airline say they're up against it, trying to catch up with the heavy holiday hustle. >> i'm like oh, my god, we won't be able to get home. >> reporter: nationwide families stranded across the country with more bad news for passengers expected today. major carriers including delta and united blaming the massive flight cancellations on coronavirus after flight crews and their ground support staffs tested positive or were exposed to the virus. >> they said that the reason why the flights were cancelled was a crew availability due to covid. >> reporter: on sunday alone, around 5,000 delays and more than 1,000 cancelled flights, leaving unaware passengers stranded and frustrated. >> we had no idea the flight was cancelled. >> reporter: this morning what may be unrealistic, a post christmas miracle. >> that's why it's good to have backup plans. >> reporter: under current vaccination status, they have to quarantine for ten days. it could take a week to rebound from the chaos. >> we have crews out sick all over the place. i think we're in store for more delays and cancelations. >> the trouble compounded by heavy snow and ice causing spinouts on the roads. >> they've been -- we try to make it. >> reporter: for those who raced to get covid tests before gatherings with family, now a new wrinkle. getting home. these widespread delays come as airlines have reached out to the cdc, asking them to reduce the ten-day quarantine for anybody who has a breakthrough case, but the cdc has yet to respond, so for the moment, the solution to catch up with what is a growing backlog is to ask the healthy employees to work overtime. >> hey, just curious. are there any specific airlines that have been particularly hard hit? any regions of the united states worse that be others or is this just generalized chaos? >> it's generalized chaos, but united and delta have been hit pretty hard. i mean, just about every -- remember, these are breakthrough cases. so people are testing positive. it doesn't mean that they are necessarily showing the symptoms, but this is all designed to stop the spread and so with a ten-day quarantine, you test positive. then you maybe get a second test. you test positive. you go into a ten-day quarantine. as we know, if you look through the last two years, what happened with the airlines with encouraging people to take those buyouts and leave and the airlines trying to hire back enough people, it's been very much on a raiser's edge in terms of how things have been operating and now you have this new complication with the omicron variant. and that's exactly where we are. and don't forget, we have more people flying now than we've had in two years. people returned this holiday season to try to see loved ones, and now this. >> i got to say, i mean, mika and i have been very cautious, very conservative during the pandemic as far as bubble wrapping our families, bubble wrapping ourselves to use an expression katty and i were talking act before, but we have flown an awful lot. we've had confident that -- in the ability of the airlines and the mask mandates to allow us to fly without getting covid, and it's worked for us. and for our families. i'm curious, as we get to the end of 2021, and we're moving through omicron, i know you travel a lot. you study this a lot. have -- what have you found about the airlines and the general safety of flying? is it -- are we confident at the end of 2021 to say that when you get on a plane, if you follow the instructions, you're really going to be safe from covid? >> reporter: indeed. in fact, you know, you got to go and look and see what the airlines have done with the hepa filters, the air exchange, the understanding of how the mask wearing works. i've been on some long flights. not so long ago i flew from hawaii from south florida. that's a very long flight. it's not a lot of fun to wear a mask, but honestly, if those medical professionals who go to work and wear masks nine hours a day can do it, you can certainly do it on an airline. we've seen the people have fights on flights about wearing masks. we've seen, unfortunately, the flight attendants having to become sort of the police on board flights. we've seen that sort of breakout which makes it sort of uncomfortable, but of course, that's a rare number of people who actually are the ones that cause the problems for others. the tsa has worked out how to get people through lines. the social distancing doesn't work in an airport, but we've seen the spread prior to omicron was not that great with those who have been flying. and we've seen the numbers climbing and climbing. omicron is a new wrinkle, and quite frankly, right now, i think we're going to see in about two weeks what happens with omicron and the number of people who have been flying because, again, we've had a record number of people flying over this holiday period, and a lot of them are going to be as i noted, they're going to be stuck where they are. if they flew home for the christmas holiday, they're going to be home with their relatives just a little bit longer. >> yeah. we were rushing out to jfk about a week and a half ago to catch a flight, walked in, we were running late, and the lines were as long as i've ever seen at jfk. we just turned around to try to get a flight at la guardia. people are going out there and flying. it is packed. that's good news for the airlines. and kerry, i think for the sake of american travelers, it's important the cdc moves the number of isolation from ten days to seven days like you were just talking about. is that something the airlines are going to be pushing the cdc to do? >> reporter: absolutely. the airlines have already started to push, and not only publicly but back channelling it as well. the question, of course, is when the cdc is going to make that decision, because the cdc says they try to make their decisions based on science and not the pressure from businesses. but there is, of course, the nation that needs to keep moving. and all of these delays cause all types of problems. i mean, if you begin to see that people look at this period that will probably last now through to the new years, look at this and say all these problems are now part of traveling, we may see people pull back from traveling, and the economy of our country in many ways relies on a system that works, a system that you can rely on, and the ability for people to get around. but, again, the cdc has not commented on the pressure that's coming at them. >> yeah? well, let's hope they do soon as we said earlier in the show, the uk already has seven days. health workers seven days. it seems to make sense for people in tsa and the airline industry. kerry sanders, thank you for being with us. we love having you and have a great new year's. and bill de blasio begins his final week as mayor of new york city. he's also over the past couple weeks been on our show more than mike barnicle, and he joins us now again, but it seems somewhat appropriate here. this is your exit interview, so let's treat this like an exit interview. mr. mayor, tell us what you're most proud of, and tell us what you screwed up the most. >> joe, first of all, can i just say thank you? it's been a great, great eight years together. and i just love what happens on this show. i do. i appreciate the real conversation that happens here, the american conversation. it's something you should be proud of. and i'm going -- i've loved being a part of it. to your question, i came here to fight inequality in new york city. and to do something about what i call the tale of two cities, i borrowed that from charles tickens, but it's still true. we were able to do something and make a real impact, to put money back in the pockets of working people. to give kids a full day of pre-k and three-k for free. a lot more affordable housing. fought and won the $15 minimum page. paid sick leave. things i think the democratic party and progressives need to focus on going forward. we have to be about working people. and we actually made a change in this city. there's a lot more to do, and listen, covid lay bear profound inequalities, and i think, therefore, all the more reason to go straight at these inequalities going forward. in a very blunt way, because if we don't, we don't have a sustainable society if it becomes one where rich or poor that gulf widens all the time. it actually happened during the covid pandemic. the rich truly got richer. and a lot of working folks suffered. we've got to address that. i think we have a good model in new york city as some of the things that work. >> and so what was your biggest failure? what's the one thing you'd love to have a do over on and wish you could turn the clock back and start over on it? >> well, i'd say in terms of approach, i've learned a lot about the need to communicate better and differently. i feel very good about a lot of the substance of what we did. i don't feel good about how we communicated it. i think it's important if you're going to be effective in this work to spend the time and the focus to get the message across in an honest and open way that people can connect with. that's something i've got to do better. i say a lot of people in my beloved democratic party have to do that better too. and joe, we've talked about homelessness. that's an area where i don't think in the beginning the approaches we tried worked well enough. i do think the ones the last couple years have worked a lot better. that gives me hope for the future that we'll be able to make a more profound impact on this issue. >> let's talk about crime in 2019 when i had you on, i read a new york times article that said crime in new york city was at the lowest rate in 60 years. lowest rate ever on record. and "the times" said you would have to estimate what the crime rates were in the 1950s to get close to a time that was as safe in new york city as it was in 2019. talking about do-overs again, and this is certainly not specific to you. you could talk about every major city in america. but new york city holds a special place, i think, for a lot of people. looking at a massive, major metropolitan city that per capita crime has been extremely low over the past 20 years. so going back to 2019, if you had a do-over again on crime, lessons that eric adams could learn, lessons that the mayor of san francisco, the mayors of portland, seattle, other cities impacted by violence and crime, what's that lesson you learned over the past two years? >> it has been a revelation that the best solutions are at the community level. we've put a lot of resources into the cure violence movement and the crisis management system. this is all part of violence interruption. and community members are best positioned in a lot of cases to stop violence before it happens. to create a different approach. we need our police, obviously. but there's something that could be done at a community level that's irreplaceable and has been missed for many years. president biden keyed in on this. he's right. but ultimately, when we create policing and rebonded police and community 2014 through 2019, that's so much what drove crime down. we need community members to know the cop on the beat by name, and we need the cop on the beat to know the community and spend realtime there so they sense what's going on in the community, humanly, organically, get to know people. and that was what was missing in the past. so that part worked. we drove down crime for six years. of course, covid threw off everything, but the formformula joe, it's important that we not take the huge tumult of a global pandemic and allow it to blind us to what was working before the pandemic and needs to continue. neighborhood policing needs to continue 100%, and it will deepen in the city, and we will ultimately be safer than we were before the pandemic. i'm confident of that. >> mr. mayor, there's been speculation about your next move. i'm not going to ask you about your rumor of running for governor. on the subject of that office, your relationship with andrew cuomo was famously an tag nasic, and that's kind. how different would your eight years in office be if he had not been governor? >> jonathan, it would have been so different. i mean, i've got to tell you for four years having cuomo and trump at the same time was a tremendous challenge, and it almost felt surreal at times, honestly. like everything we had been told were the norms didn't exist anymore. it doesn't have to be that way. it's funny. at the end of all this, i feel more optimistic than when i started. it sounds kind of strange to say, but there have been a lot of reckonings. a lot of people who did the wrong thing have paid the price for it. there has been many times where the goodness of the people came through and we saw that in this pandemic. i'm more optimistic than ever. but those were to me strange abhorrent realities. and it's a funny thing. i'd say this to everyone who is a real public servant. sometimes it's important to tell yourself if something seems wrong, if it seems like it shouldn't be, well, maybe that's just the truth. don't get lost in it. don't get overwhelmed by it. and a lot of times, particularly with cuomo, i said to myself, this ultimately will not stand. and i believed it in my heart. because you can't treat people that way. you can't treat people the way he did. you can't bend the government to personal need and will the way he did. it catches up eventually. >> i want to ask about the other side coin, police reform. you came into the office, ended the practice of stop and frisk. obviously had moments of tension with the police department where officers turned their backs at a funeral. only an increased focus the last few years, a relationship between police and community, and police at times abuse of people particularly african american men, what progress do you think you've made on that subject, and what still needs to be done? >> i feel very good about the foundation we've laid here. we have a police force now that looks more like new york city than ever. it really is reflective of the diversity of this city. we have a police force where every single officer has been trained in deescalation. every single officer in implicit bias. you're talking about the finest police force in the country, but also one that has embraced a series of reforms. now with a neighborhood policing philosophy, really listening and connecting with communities, respecting the community base solutions to violence like the violence interrupters, it's an entirely different nypd, and don't let the disruption of covid fool you. eric adams suggested a year or two ago, have the community involved in the precinct commander. people love that. they love the fact that they get to have some say in who is going to lead the public safety efforts in their community. as this deepens, i truly believe this is the future of american policing. guardians, not warriors. a focus on the human relationships, by the way, when the community is trusting of the police, they share information. they work with the police. they help them get the job done. and the police feel more appreciation and more connection. and they don't feel some of what they've been through the last few years which has been tough for police as well. i am hopeful that we found something here, and now i think it's going to blossom when we get out of the covid era. we've got to get out of the covid era. today, a historic day, we're implementing the strongest vaccine mandate in the country. all private sector employers today. this is what we need to do everywhere. everywhere, every governor, every ceo in the united states should do vaccine mandates. 2022 has to be the year we fix covid. >> let me go back to what you started with and ask you a broader point question. undoubtedly, you succeeded in terms of stop and frisk and pre-k and things that you touted, and you undoubtedly have dealt with that. i think what a lot of people do not ups around the country is you came after 16 years of politics going one way in the city, four years of giuliani, 12 years of bloomberg who were republicans. the question is the substance of the democratic party, as you go forward, many of us feel you're weighing a run for governor. i'm not going to ask you to announce or not. but as we look at this, one of the things that we've seen in the civil rights community specifically our network is we're grading people on substance. what does the party represent and what should it represent in clear language as opposed to the opposing party both nationally and locally if it is going to remain a winning party? if you run for governor or whoever runs for governor, democrat or people around the country, what does this party stand for as one that came in and had to contrast of being a successor to almost two decades of an opposing party? what does the democratic party stand for and what should it stand for? >> i appreciate the question. it's one of the most essential questions. i can put into it a few words. working people first. this is what the democratic party unmistakably stood for for generations, and that changed this country for the better. it also gave the democratic party the real political allegiance of people rural, urban, all parts of the country. and we've got to get back to that. we lost that. we've got to get back to it. the bottom line to me, why don't we reason to what working people are going through. their lives have become more and more stressful. more sense of economic insecurity than in generations. and so let's reach out to people and give them the things that they need and be the party that is willing to challenge whatever power, whatever interests it takes. and say you know what, if the wealthy have to pay more in taxes to help everyone else, that's fairness. because working people are struggling like never before. the vision i put forward for this state, every kid should be in school if they want. if the family wants, all day, all year, all free. that's the kind of thing that's going to take a lot of stress off families and take a lot of expense off families. when the democratic party does that, we reconnect with a lot of the working people we've lost, and we can do it, and that's why i'm going to push this party and this state to do, because working people deserve it after everything they've been through, especially in this pandemic. >> you know, katty, you can tell a public servant. it really -- it's all about serving the people. when he's a mayor, he's not just concerned about new york city. he's concerned about the entire state of new york. he puts together proposals, education proposal for all of new york state, and he's just -- he's the mayor of new york city. so that shows you what a big heart. he's got a heart as big as the empire state, doesn't he? >> a heart as big as the empire state, and full of smiles here on "morning joe." >> thank you. thank you for that. >> so the question is, of course, mr. mayor, as you go across new york state and listen, do you have a time frame for making any future decisions on whether you run for governor or not? >> yes. real, real soon. i've got one more week, and i'm going to focus on fighting covid. and i'm happy to say, by the way, we did a booster incentive, and it has been heard and felt by the people of new york city since i announced it. i came on the show and talked about it. 180,000 more new yorkers have gotten a booster since tuesday. almost 2 million overall. i'm going to finish that fight, and then there's a new fight up ahead to change this state. ville more to say very, very, very soon, joe. >> okay. you going to make your announcement here, mr. mayor? just keep the seat warm. mayor, thank you so much. great having you today. i hope you have a wonderful new year. >> thank you for seriously everything you do for this city and this country. you and all your colleagues, this is an indispensable show, and it is a dialogue we need a lot more of in this country. it's been an honor to be a part of this the last eight years and keep going, brother. >> it's kind of you to say, andly pass that along to my wife, because she thinks morning mika is a wonderful indispensable show as well. still ahead on morning mika from campaign promises kept to those yet to be fulfilled, we're taking a look back at president biden's first year in the oval office. that's next on "morning joe." i've lost count of how many asthma attacks i've had. but my nunormal with nucala? fewer asthma attacks. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection-site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala. find your nunormal with nucala. 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(excited yell) woo-hoo! ensure max protein. with thirty grams of protein, one gram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune health. when you have xfinity xfi, you have peace of mind one gram of sugar, built in at no extra cost. advanced security helps keep your family protected online. pause wifi whenever for ultimate control with the xfinity app. and family-safe browsing gives parents one less thing to worry about. security, control and peace of mind. with xfinity xfi, it's all built in at no extra cost. what does a foster kid need from you? to be brave. to show up. for staying connected. the questions they weren't able to ask. show up for the first day of school, the last day at their current address. for the mornings when everything's wrong. for the manicure that makes everything right, for right now. show up, however you can, for the foster kids who need it most— at helpfosterchildren.com it's been a packed year for the biden white house with a global pandemic. challenges on capitol hill, and the end of the war in afghanistan. here's nbc news white house correspondent monica alba with a look back. >> reporter: every president's first year in office tess the power of promise. marked with campaign pledges kept and those still unfulfilled. >> we're going to keep up the fight until we get it done. >> reporter: before joe biden was even sworn in, he knew the coronavirus pandemic would largely define the beginning of his term. >> to heal, we must remember. >> reporter: honoring the hundreds of thousands dead on the eve of his inauguration. >> this is democracy's day. the day of history and hope. >> reporter: the biden/harris administration launching a massive effort to get americans vaccinated. >> it's time to act. we can reduce suffering in this country. >> reporter: leading to the president's first legislative victory in march. in the form of a $1.9 trillion covid relief bill. as 100 days in office marked more than 100 million covid vaccine shots administered. >> go get vaccinated, america. >> reporter: still, many refused to roll up their sleeves. even as new variants brought spikes and surges. >> it's become a political issue which is a sad, sad commentary. >> reporter: the biden administration's vaccine mandates for federal workers, contractors and private businesses, challenged in courts. >> it's not about just go and get the vaccine. it's about having the choice to get it. >> reporter: rule and enforcement across the country, a tangled web as u.s. covid deaths topped 800,000 and normal never quite returned. >> do not wait. go get your booster if it's time for you to do so. >> reporter: overseas, high stakes challenges on the world stage. as the u.s. rejoined the paris agreement. the international treaty on climate change. >> the united states is determined, determined to reengage with europe. >> reporter: while also placing sanctions on russia ahead of a critical face-to-face summit with vladimir putin in switzerland. yet, it was afghanistan that would move front and center after the president announced his decision to withdraw all troops from the country by the 20th anniversary of september 11th. >> we'll do it responsibly, deliberate ratty and safely. >> reporter: underestimating how quickly the taliban would take control, resulting in a chaotic and deadly evacuation. >> i am president of the united states of america. and the buck stops with me. i do not regret my decision to end america's war fight in afghanistan. >> reporter: the president followed up on his pledge to combat global warming at a major u.n. summit in glasgow. >> we meet with the eyes of history upon us. >> reporter: climate a key part of the president's domestic agenda, revoking a permit for the pipeline and halting new emergency leasing in the arctic wild wife refuge. also keeping his word when appointing a diverse cabinet and repealing the band on transgender personnel in the armed forces. >> transgender personnel if qualified in every other way, can serve in the government in the united states military. >> reporter: on capitol hill, after months of negotiations and democratic in-fighting, a scaled back 1 hnt 2 trillion infrastructure bill is signed into law. >> america's moving again. and your life is going to change for the better. >> reporter: while the second half of the president's economic agenda, a massive social spending and climate plan, is now in limbo with no clear path forward. along with other major priorities, still stalled in congress. >> free the vote. >> reporter: like voting rights. >> the people need -- the people act. >> reporter: police reform. >> ain't no justice in this town. >> reporter: creating a pathway to citizenship. >> the promise of protection for immigrant families. nothing has changed. >> reporter: and making roe v. wade the law of the land. >> abortion still needs to be legal. >> reporter: with much still unfinished, the president will now take the country into a new year of change and challenges ahead of the critical 2022 midterm elections. >> that was nbc's monica alba reporting. coming up, the fight against covid isn't the only battle being waged on the scientific front. we'll look at another major effort against a devastating illness. next on "morning joe." okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition for strength and energy. woo hoo! ensure, complete balanced nutrition with 27 vitamins and minerals. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪ as a dj, i know all about customization. with 30 grams of protein. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ oh yeah, we gotta take off. you downloaded the td ameritrade mobile app? yeah, actually i'm taking one last look at my dashboard before we board... and you have thinkorswim mobile- -so i can finish 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>> well, the plan which is updated every year. >> reporter: the government plan on alzheimer's and dementia tracks five goals. this year a sixth goal was added. funding new research on what behaviors might cause alzheimer's or dementia. >> can i make sure the diet my parents have is healthier so they're eating less risky foods? absolutely. can that help us when it comes to something like dementia in that could help reduce the risk. >> reporter: and that risk is higher for certain groups. in black and latino communities, the rate of alzheimer's can be twice of others. >> you and i grew up in poverty. essentially. when you think about health equity and this plan, bring those two together for me briefly. >> in racial and ethnic minority communities, dementia hits hard and more often in some cases. >> reporter: most ambitious of the plan, to prevent and treat alzheimer's disease within three years. what is inspiring, one thing your father said to you in your years growing up. >> if you can get up and go to work, t a good day. there was a man who really impacted my life who makes it possible for me to jump high, to get up in the morning and have a good day. and so i am -- i won't forget my dad. >> reporter: and joe, one side note. each new year does mark the anniversary of his father's passing. the secretary telling me he takes solace he can now care for his mother and be there for her as they share the occasional bittersweetness of the holidays. again, the new updated plan which addresses the mental health of people living with alzheimer's and their care givers, that plan released today. >> richard, thank you so much. coming up, will the supreme court humor donald trump's request to stop from raiding his white house records. and what it might mean for the probe. ♪ ♪ ♪ "how bizarre" by omc ♪ no annual fee on any discover card. ♪ ♪ it's time for our lowest prices of the season on the sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to relieve pressure points. no annual fee on any discover card. and its temperature balancing so you both sleep just right. save up to $1,000 on sleep number 360 smart beds. plus, no interest until january 2025. ends january 3rd. your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire snacking can mean that pieces get stuck under mike's denture. but super poligrip gives him a tight seal. matching your job description. to help block out food particles. so he can enjoy the game. super poligrip. biden: this is the challenge of our collective lifetime. and every day we delay, the cost of inaction increases. we have the ability to invest in ourselves and build an equitable, clean energy future, and in the process, create millions of good-paying jobs and opportunities around the world. there's no more time to hang back or sit on the fence or argue amongst ourselves. so let this be the moment that we answer history's call. when you have xfinity, you have entertainment built in. which is kind of nice. ah, what is happening. binge-watching is in the bag, when you find all your apps, all in one place. find live sports faster just by using your voice... sports on now. touchdown irish! 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>> let's bring in -- thank you so much. let's bring in former prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst and state attorney for palm beach county. i want to start, rev, with you. we have talked on the show over the past decade unfortunately for far too long black men being shot and those shooting the black men not facing the consequences. trayvon, of course. eric gardner who was -- i believe murdered in staten island and walter scott. here we had a police officer who clearly made a mistake. both the prosecution and the defense both said that she did not mean to kill this man. that she panicked and made a terrible mistake and convicted of first-degree manslaughter. faces 15 years in prison and the prosecutor is asking the judge to move beyond the guidelines. i'm curious what your thoughts are about that. >> i don't know if this is the case to move beyond the guidelines. i think that clearly what happened here certainly took this young man ian life. i preached the funeral. i think the thing i think that people are missing here -- i'm glad that we are talking about this this morning. we talk a lot offline. we have seen this year a mostly white jury, 11 whites in brunswick, georgia, on the ahmaud arbery case, now a mostly white jury here in the case in brooklyn center, minnesota, only one black on that jury, both time there were convictions so we need to really start looking at the fact that you can no longer look at the racial makeup of a jury and automatically say that we can't look beyond color. we should look when we talk about going beyond guidelines that we weigh what we say based on what is right and fair and just. as we -- i think we have to keep fighting for justice. don't get me wrong. i don't think the battle against racial makeups is over. but i do think when we see things that are openings we need to look at the openings and give people credit for that. >> charles, it seems ironic to me that people that killed trayvon, killed eric gardner, shot walter scott in the back, didn't face any prison time. a woman who made a tragic, tragic mistake and killed a man, where the defense and prosecutor both saying it was an accident, faces up to 15 years in prison and you have a prosecutor saying let's go beyond guidelines. were you surprised by quickly or were you surprised that the jury came back with a first-degree manslaughter charge and the cop made a tragic mistake could spend 15 years in prison? >> no, joe. i wasn't surprised the jury came back with that verdict. i don't think it was a slam dunk by the prosecution and had an uphill battle to climb and i think that the jury got it right. when you have a conversation about kim potter and the departure of the prosecutor seeking in this case i think that the prosecution, the office, all this speaks to the notion that the public is very much so invested in the idea of police accountability. this is not the right outcome and what the justice system supposed to provide and the fact of had it wrong so often doesn't mean that now we should not be holding folks accountable and looking at the adding sentence, the departure the prosecution is seeking, a lot is connected to the fact that potter is a police officer and a higher expectation in terms of the lives of people that police are sworn to protect and serve. that's why you see that from the prosecution trying to do regarding kim potter and the sentencing. >> yeah. dave, comment if you will on inside of reverend sharpton that this is yet another predominantly white jury that hands down a tough sentence to a police officer and does so in a way that -- and also, of course, happened in the ahmaud arbery case, and this is a dramatic change and a dramatic change that we started to see over the past six months. >> good morning. i think this is a change. it is hard to prosecute police officers for something like this and this is a woman simp thetdic on the stand and found guilty of all charges. you look at the facts of the case and doesn't set a precedent and shows we may be living in different times. i was surprised by the verdict. i thought this was about culpable negligence. the prosecutors filed second-degree manslaughter charges and only added the other charges after the family urged it. and the jury found her guilty on the most serious charge. a couple factors is that she was a veteran on the police force. had great experience using a taser and a gun and also she held the gun for six seconds at wright before she pressed the trigger. i think that's why the jury convicted on the most serious charge. >> i guess the question is we are starting to see a change in the verdicts that juries are standing done does that mean we'll see going forward a change in the way that police forces conduct themselves? will police forces be looking at the verdicts and modifying the behave internally and training and recruitment processes in the light of what's happening in courtrooms? >> one can only hope. i said far number of years that police culture in america needs to be detoxified and cannot change culture without accountability and now what you are seeing is a move to accountability. the public wants greater accountability for law enforcement in america which is then going to enforce culture shifts within the police departments and law enforcement that will prompt the change that you are talking about. training is fine an police officers are trained hours upon hours around every aspect of the job. the issue is culture and accountability and now we can approach the question of qualified immunity and put measures in place to ensure that the culture change that americans is asking for for years will be set in stone. >> dave, it is jonathan. there was an emotional moment when kim potter was on the stand herself and broke down a number of times and it was unclear how that would play with the jury. what was your sense of that? did it -- she got convicted. did it backfire for the defense? >> i think it did. the defense rolled the dice and came up snake eyes. they were appealing to the jurors' hearts saying she is remorseful but the prosecutors played saying that remorse doesn't matter here. the elements of the crime were met and perhaps the jurors thought she should never have held a gun to begin with and backfired against her. >> final thoughts. how much has changed in the past year or two. you said it after the brunswick verdict. my gosh, big changes happening now. >> i think big change is beginning to happen. those of us that have marched and really put work in can say wait a minute. we are seeing some light at the end of the tunnel when you start seeing majority white juries even in the deep south say enough. a crime is a crime is a crime. we hope the light isn't a train coming but i must say three convictions this year showed on all three the majority white juries so maybe people are listening and maybe we're winning the battle of having a fair and just system. >> okay. charles, dave, thank you both very much. perhaps things not happening on capitol hill around voting rights and police reform but seem to be happening in courtrooms. that does it for us this morning. yasmin vossoughian picks up the coverage right now. yasmin? 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