so today, if you never listen to the podcast, this is a taste of what we do on the podcast. it gives us an opportunity to go longer and deeper with guests. we will share two conversations that i had with two people that were on the forefront of what i think are in some ways the most important story of 2021, which is american democracy on the knife's edge. the first time we have sustained violence, the after math of the insurrection and the attempts by the republican party to put in to place means of stopping future peaceful transfers of power and democratic accountability and the on rush towards a future and a president which the republican parties, two major parties has become essentially anti-deem accurate i can -- anti-democratic in a pro found way. in the episode tonight, who people have were in the forefront and fighting against the tendancies, one of those sherrilyn ifflin, one of the most remarkable lawyers, legal thinkers, social critics that we have, one of the best voting rights lawyer in history. i got to talk to her and the nature of american democracy, what it is now, has been and could be. we will bring that to you in a moment. and first i speak with barton gellman, he has pivoted a affeldt of beats he used to be to be full-time on the democracy beat. he wrote one of the most influential pieces on this topic. it was written in september 2020, published in september 2020, two months before the election. it was in "atlantic," and the piece is called the election that can break america. and basically, you know, it's isk ary to write about the future if you are a journalist, you could end up looking very, very silly. i myself have made predictions about the future that ended up being very, very silly. bart wrote a piece called "the election that could break america," it was the reverse of that. it was remarkably prophetic, it laid out how trump and allies across the country could attempt or perhaps be successful in over-ruling the democratic will of the american people and essentially steal an election or electoral college majority and stay in power, even if a majority of americans in terms of the popular vote and electoral vote did not vote for him. and it ends up being a precise accurate blue print of the steps that donald trump and mark meadows and his collaborators took in the run-up to january 6th. and in december, he wrote another piece. a follow-up. basically saying, look, it didn't stop after january 6th and as you know if you watch the show or listen to the podcast, we cover it all the time. it kept going. that piece, which was published just a few weeks ago called "trump's next coup has already begun," is how adherence to the big lie and adherence to the notion that joe biden is illegitamte, as we think of the year-end podcast and show, there's almost no one that i want to speak to more than the atlantic's barton gellman. your piece published, and before anything, you have two pieces talking can they get the state legislature to bi-a pass the people. and you have the president saying the vice president can decide, i don't like the electoral votes. they are talking about it in september. >> the idea of stealing an election that you didn't win is with them from the beginning. >> exactly right. and then, this is what is key though, they are already thinking about stealing and then comes the claims of fraud. what role is that playing? >> that's really an interesting question. it's, it's justifying the idea that the state legislature has no choice, you know, what can we do? our hands are tied? no one knows what the vote really is. it's so tainted by vote rigging and fraud that we don't have any who the people voted for. so we will have to make that choice ourselves. and remember this whole thing is based on the fact that there are what, six or seven battleground states where biden narrowly won, and where are the state legislature is controlled by the republicans. so, if you can say, the people don't get to decide, the legislature does. you are turning seven states red that were voting blue. >> right ra. so, but my point here is as articulated in your piece, they are thinking of stealing it before any votes are cast. right? then the votes are cast and there's like a frenzy whipped up around the individual analyzes of the fraud and increasingly insane theories. and i guess my question is like, that what i think it does is give a predicate. the anti-democratic nature of what they are after is so -- >> they are setting up a story line. in which, they are not over-ruling the people, they are just -- we can't figure out what the people wanted because there's so many spaceships that are beaming votes down and dumping ballots in the middle of the night. i guess, there are very few politicians in america that are willing to stand up and say, i don't think you should have the vote. >> even donald trump. >> even donald trump won't say it, that's true. >> then the question becomes to me, and i think it carries to where we are now. >> i don't know if it matters, but i suspect it does. there's something interesting happening with the nation's deep corp democratic ethos the offensiveness of ideas that they are floating and bridging the gap. right? it's not acceptable to us as americans across ideological class lines, whatever, to take away our vote and say, no, we get to decide. that's what you want to do. you want to invalidate the legitimacy of the majority of the votes in wrong way, that is not for you. the bridge you build between those two things is fraud. the 10s of millions people radicalize onned against democracy, do they believe the fraud story? >> oh, yeah. >> they believe it. >> i think there are 10ss of millions of people who believe it in their bones. who, if you asked them to -- >> if you took a lie detector test -- >> bet their child's life, they would be that sure. you know, i have talked to someone who said, you know, if you are asking me whether, if i'm wrong about this, you can just shoot me, i would say, yeah, there's fraud. they are overwhelmed by the propaganda, talking about terrabytes of data and six order polynomials these are explaining the voter fraud. it's what snake oil salesmen have done since the dawn of time. use fancy language and snowball the details. and i guess if people think, if this is not right, then this one is, too many of these can't be wrong. there's smoke, there's fire. >> i think that is well-said. >> the barrage of propaganda on it, if you have not witnessed it -- i mean, again, i have to have a little. i try to put myself -- i have had the experience often in my life, this is in some ways what being a journalist is, and i'm sure you had it too, there's an expert debate about a thing. and i don't know anything about it. you are like, i don't know. who is right on it? the people are fighting on it. you start to weigh in. you call people. and ultimately what ends happening is a lot of times you figure out these trust relationships. >> yes. >> who's trustworthy and who is not and there's no escaping those trust relationships in how we form any of our beliefs around the world and there's 10s of millions people who trust untrustworthy people. >> yeah, and this is something that troubles me greatly as a journalist. i don't know how to reach those people. i have always thought of myself as someone who is reporting and writing for someone with an open mind, who is willing to use common sense. the same as they would use in their every day life. i mean, they would not trust this snake oil salesman if he was selling them a used car. their spider sense would tingle and they would say, how come you have not mentioned anything about the carburetor, and they would not fall for it if someone just snowed them with talk. but that's in their every day life. and somehow, when they are thinking about politics, their brain works in a different way. >> well, you said something recently about your role as a journalist that i found really fascinating just in terms of your training and the tradition you have come up in and the situation you find yourself now in. and i want to talk about that right after we take this quick break. uick break. when it comes to autism, finding the right words can be tough. finding understanding doesn't have to be. we can create a kinder, more inclusive world for the millions of people on the autism spectrum. go to autismspeaks.org. feel stuck with credit card debt? move to sofi and feel what it's like to get your money right. ♪ move your high-interest debt to a sofi personal loan. you could save with low rates and no fees. earn $10 just for viewing your rate and get your money right. ♪ a must in your medicine cabinet! less sick days! cold coming on? zicam is the #1 cold shortening brand! highly recommend it! zifans love zicam's unique zinc formula. it shortens colds! zicam. zinc that cold! what do we want for dinner? it shortens colds! burger... i want a sugar cookie... wait... i want a bucket of chicken... i want... ♪♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft. for the win win. all right, back with barton gellman. writr from "the atlantic," you talked about you questions your role as a journalist and the question of objectivity, i'm curious to ask you about that again and here you follow-up on it. >> terry surprised me with the question and i sort of blurted out a answer. and i don't regret it. it's uncomfortable for me to talk about the way my role has changed as a journalist in these recent years. because, i grew up with trying to keep myself out of the story, to keep my opinions out of the story, to take no side when one side is fighting with another. and i realized that there are at least two things that journalists are allowed to be for and to defend. one of them is the truth. and one of them is the fundamental tenants of democracy, the people get to make their own choice of who leads them. we are in favor of that. we are pro democracy. >> you are allowed to have that take. >> allowed to have that opinion. >> there's a hot one from bart gellman. >> and the problem is we have one party that is pro democracy and willing to lose an election and uphold the rules and stay within the safeguards. if i point out that mainstream positions are lies. i'm not trying put myself on the side of the democratic party. just telling the truth. >> and there's also the fact that the nature of american electoral politics with the two-party system is fairly zero sum. i mean it in a few different ways. it's zero sum in terms of electoral outcomes and it's zero sum in terms of this democratic ethos, insofar as, if you say my core commitment as a journalist and american citizen, i would say, is democracy and one of the parties is abandoning that as an ethos is, one plus one equals two there. >> right, and it's an emergency. >> yes. >> it is the biggest story there is. and it needs to be treated that way. both by journalists and by society at large. >> how much do you think it's getting that treatment? >> not enough, i would say. there's been a lot of good journalism done, i don't sense there's a tone to it in an overall context in the journalism that said red alert. our democracy is at risk here. it's sort of hijinx and bad behavior in state parties and one side using bad smelling efforts to seek advantage but it doesn't look to me like the scale of the threat is reflected in what's being said. what you are not seeing in the coverage is an underlying message, this is abnormal. this is beyond the pale. this is off the tracks. something's going to here that we have not seen before. and that leads to a very bad place. that's the context that is missing. >> and that's the place where i see this most squarely and it's a bunch of different examples to me is the georgia primary with david purdue. where you have had a crashing together of the normal and abnormal. because david purdue was like, ten years ago, an ostensibly normal republican politician. and now, he is primarying brian kemp for governor of georgia on an essentially pro coup agenda. and like, again, that is 5-alarm fire stuff. >> everything happening in georgia politics is abnormal in this way and what you see, you see purdue in a very opportunistic way, seizing on a very powerful under current in republican politics. trump's greatest source of strength is that he has convinced many 10s of millions people that the election was stolen. that's a cataclysm, right? >> yeah. yeah. >> if you believe that. what isn't allowed to you? >> correct. >> i mean, there's an imposter in the white house, who is a tyrant who stole the office. it's an extraordinary thing to believe. he has convinced 10s of millions people about it. if you were to administer truth serum to republican elected officials. so to david purdue. they would say, yeah, okay. well, biden what? fair and square. but that's not what the base thinks. >> right. >> and they are afraid of the base. and some of them are happy to take advantage of the base to advance their careers. which is where i think i put purdue in this one. >> and again, i mean, one of the ironies here. you have all the states that take the extraordinary measures to make voting easier because we are in the midst of a pandemic. and in this context, the republican party does fine. well in certain ways. they won a bunch of congressional races they didn't think they would win. it's not like this idea that they have is just not even imperically correct, if everyone votes we toast. it's a very competitive party. there's a lot of conservatives in america. what will they do with the power. will they foreclose the ability to run free and fair eelections in the future. you have this crazy thing where the stakes of the normal election become at risk are. >> if you have to worry about one party will do the third time it has gotten in to power with the ability to cross the board, the next time it gets in to power. normal stakes are changed completely. >> what do you? i have the same reaction. i am just ringing the alarm. i have a megaphone and i shout in to it every day. >> i feel the same way. it's hard enough to figure out what is going on and state it clearly and analyze it intelligently and to say, hey, there's a big problem here, everybody. let's pay attention to it. it's asking a lot to also know what all the solutions are. but, the first one is that people have to look at this with a sense of urgency. you have to notice what is going on and say, wait, this is not something that is okay. we have to do something about this. i mean, i know what i would do if i were, you know, working for the other party and in trying organize my precinct or countity or state. i would be paying attention to these local races. to supervise the election. because the republicans are putting a lot of attention in to it. and they are essentially infiltrating what were bipartisan or completely nonpartisan institutions. you know, like the, you know, election supervisor for the township of whatever. and saying we can't let the election be stolen the way it was last time. they are vowed believers in completely nonsense claims that the election was stolen and they are going to go in there and fix that. god knows what they will do if they have the power to certify or not certify votes. so i mean, you would want to see small "d" democrats organizing as much as the anti-democratic forces are organizing and they are not. >> you can read both of the pieces as you go back and read the election that could break america was published in september 2020, thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> journalism is one american's institution that had to fight and improve itself and figure out a way to hold ground for american democracy and the e pangz of american democracy. the courts have been another. one of the, i think, one of the most, one of the wisest and most brilliant people in all of american public life, and also, one of the most prominent voting rights lawyers in the country, and one of the most -- one of the most rigteously ferocious fighter on true american democracy, going back to last century and she joins me for a conversation about this moment in american democracy, next. and the largest corporate donor to the aspca and national park foundation. get a new subaru during the share the love event and subaru will donate two hundred and fifty dollars to charity. no one can deliver your mom's homemade short ribs. that's why instacart helps deliver the ingredients. and you add the love. look! oh my god... oh wow. ♪ i want my daughter riley to know about her ancestors and how important it is to know who you are and to know where you came from. doesn't that look like your papa? that's your great grandfather. it's like opening a whole 'nother world that we did not know existed. ♪ you finally have a face to a name. when you give the gift of ancestry®, you give the gift of family. ♪ hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business, but all my employees need something different. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this. your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, like asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. yeah i should've just led with that. with at&t business. you can pick the best plan for each employee and get the best deals on every smart phone. sherrilyn ifill is one of the premier voting right lawyers in america. she has had a variety of roles. she is head of the naacp legal defense fund, she is stepping down next year. she started working on voter's rights and as you are about to hear, we live in a moment where the right to vote is under assault. where democracy is under assault in a unprecedented fashion. but is in line with the long history of pro democracy and anti-democracy forces in life. often that have revolved around the color line, specifically around white supremacy and racism and she has been part of the fight stretching back to brown-v-board and cases like, that were pushed by the folks at naacp. she has a unique perspective about what this moment is. and i will say, we got, we sat down together for this conversation. i was feeling a little down about where things are. which is something that happens when you spend all of your time thinking about it. she has spent more time in the trenches fighting on behalf of american democracy. and she gave me a charge of hope. so it was a great pleasure to get to sit down and talk to sherrilyn ifill. you are the naacp legal defense fund. you have been running it since 2013. >> since january 22nd. >> and you are stepping down next year? >> i am. >> it's been a tough ten years. here's aim going to tell you the joke that i was going make earlier. but i didn't want to say in front of you. there's a stat called plus/minus in basketball. it's independent of what the players are doing, i'm like she is plus/minus. i think it's a little rough. >> you are making a different calculation than i'm making. right. i actually think and it's the part that i feel good about. i feel incredibly pleased and congratulate identified and actually surprised and hopeful about the progress that's been made in helping millions more people understand the issues that i have devoted my life to than ever before in my lifetime. >> that's, i mean, that -- >> it's pure plus. >> the issues you work on. voting rights and the protection of multi-racial democracy have never been more essentially activating issues that people talk about in my lifetime. >> and, and many more millions people who understand the reality or at least have a sense that there's something that is real and systemic about racism in this country and it's dangerous to this country. that has not been the understanding of certainly most white people and even some black people who believe, we get the black president and everyone is doing so much better. did not understand the depth of it. i have never felt more affirmed and eequipped to talk about the world we want. people were thinking before, of course there's bad people. it's doing okay, what? i cannot complain, because honestly, i started out in adf as a voting rights attorney. nobody knew what voter suppression was, and many out of our realm and communities that we served cared. particularly in the south, not in swing state as they are now understood, very few white people paid any attention to it. that is not just about republicans or democrats, it was in general. >> right. >> but as i have always said, what they workshop on us is the stuff that's coming for the whole republic. >> that's such a, it's a pro found and true point. >> so, at the end of the day, what has happened now and the reason that you and i and maybe many others feel so overwhelmed or feel like this is a catastrophe that we cannot get out of is the u.s. is alabama. if it did not check alabama, it would always be. you want me to feel sad that the people i represent are living in a place that is anti-democratic? i am not. i'm hopeful that the spread of this terrible thing means we will make a change. and that change will be for all people, including the people in the communities i represent. the 52% of black people who live in the south so that when people say they want to write off red states and separate from them. they are talking about a majority of the black population in the country. if people now understand that our fate is tied to, that their fate is tied to our fate, and that whatever is happening and being tried out on marginalized communities is the stuff they are coming for the whole republic with. that part feels. i don't know that there was any other way to get there. right? i don't know what would drive 10s of millions people of all races in to the streets in 50 states except the video of the torture and killing of george floyd. it's an awful thing to say about this country. but it happens to be true. >> and i would say that it's, just to reaffirm your point, it was more than the video because it was the work that you and others have done to create the context. i was thinking about it yesterday, because yesterday when i was speaking to you today, yesterday we lost the great -- and it was really pro found to me. and moving. here's the writer that i encounter in college first as a young straight white liberal, and radical, and blew my mind. and then to watch 20 yearser later, she -- >> like the outpouring and her language. the consciousness, her language. her way of formulating things. her conceptualization of the problem in the main -- if not the mainstream so far more central than it was 20 years ago. >> so i will demand you rethink your plus/minus calculation. if you are fighting for real transformation and you are not fighting and this is something that, you know, we have to discipline ourselves to do. and i just said this to a couple of the lawyers on our team in the office. are we fighting to get back to 20 years ago? i mean i started this in 1988. so, what, what part of the last 50 years have existed when ldf has not had a full docket of cases? so this actually is the opportunity to decide, will we as things unravel have a chance to build , not rebuild, but build what we actually want. and there's only one way to do it. you don't do it from the margins, you do it from the whole dog on thing caves in on itself. which is happening. i don't want it to happen. >> but we went through an insurrection for the first time in american history. >> it's a global pandemic that will not win because of a concerted misinformation campaign and because of the stickiness of white supremacy can be tied to anything. you can attach it to anything and it has legs. so, now it's attached to masks. and it's attached to schools and vaccination and all of it. and so, that's kind of what i'm, as i leave and try to write this book, it's kind of what i'm writing about. the stickiness of this thing. if we don't get that thing under control. >> i want to talk more about that. i want to talk about the vision of solidarity that you are annunciating here. >> it's what i'm here for. >> you are delivering. we will come right back. oh no. for the gifts you won't forget. the mercedes-benz winter event. get a credit toward your first month's payment on select models. back with sherrilyn ifill, a thing that i found as i have gotten older is i used to value intelligence above all. that smartness was everything and i sort of realized there's a lot of smart people and that judgment is actually everything. and you are obviously a brilliant person, i think your judgment is incredible. and i think like sort of, i look to you. >> that's nice. >> no, really. your conception of politics and the able to blend the radical analysis and the pragmatic vision of moving forward is a north star. hearing you annunciating the key is effective for me. honestly, one thing that i keep coming back to is, american liberal democracy in the way that we think of an actually democracy is a 46 year experiment. >> absolutely. >> it's not the majority of the time. it's a small little thing and your idea, i want you to stay more about the idea. we are not trying to rebuild things. the idea is, we actually want to make something new. which is actually an equitable just, true multi-racial democracy in the 21st century in a way that we never had it before. >> that is correct. and you know, people can be snarky about this. it's a big global experiment. there's no country we are modelling ourselves after. it's a reason i hue to the history and i the thurgood marshals and others, there was no blueprint. and there was no, what in 1940 said yeah, maybe you could create something, do this organization of black lawyers and march through the system and use the tools. really? what was the thing that made them think it was possible? so, i do feel like that's the space where we need to be. where we are imagining something that doesn't exist and we feel okay about that. we are tlog take the chance. we are willing to be strategic. we are willing to fight for shortterm gains and we have a long game in mind and we recognize it's not fun. you know. listen, chris. -- >> oh, it's so much fun. >> i say it all the time because for those of us who grew up like watching the civil rights movement, for me, it's the reason i became a lawyer. it looked amazing. i don't mean like fun. it looked so noble. it looked so beautiful. it was like they knew what they were doing. they had a plan. they had a strategy. people say, what is the strategy? they used to have a strategy. when i took the job, you know, i got nervous because i knew people would be asking me that all the time. i went to a talk one night, and taylor branch said on the stage in baltimore. he said, you know, during the civil rights movement leaders and activists, how did he describe it, i think he said were eternally, no, perpetually anxious about what to do next and that was it for me. it was like, yeah, they too were trying to figure it out as they went. >> it's so funny, the home that you talked about that conceptualization of the moments of peak nobility, not that it's fun. it's elevated. it's a sublime moment of democratic sacrifice and beautiful sacrifice for its ideals, where people are at each other throats, they ran john lewis out of there. like, john lewis. the john lewis. out of here. >> i think, because we have come to, not we but the civil rights movement has come to be used in the, in the service of a narrative about this country, right? of nobility. of a place of opportunity and so forth. that actually we gave them, that they have used to their own advantage. and we have covered everything and it looked so beautiful and it's so wonderful. and we forget how painful it was. we forget how absolutely painful it was. >> and how much, the thing that i find reassuring, sometimes i feel like there's so much intro-conflict and people are beefing all the time. and i think it's social media and it partly is. it's the nature of democratic politics. people have conflicts. people who aligned and agree on things. >> it's part of the things we believe in. right? >> people say, well, the right, they are so disciplined. they are all on message. they clearly got the memo. well, right, if you want to be in a cult that's, you are right, discipline is absolutely one of the major qualities of people who are lockstep in a cult. people who are interested in a progressive vision and a democracy, not only want outcomes, but they also value process. that means we necessarily value dissent, things that are just not fun. dissen temperature, engagement, notice, transparency. see, you are getting exhausted. all the things -- >> you are ticking through my personal -- >> all the things that make it hard to get to and answer quickly and make it hard to have everybody on board. that makes it hard to have the kind of discipline, and we have to accept that. and i will say this to you as part of the journalist class, it's like the constant, the democrats never have their crap together. the republicans -- i find it, listen, i'm not saying the democrats always have their crap together, often they don't. but what they are trying to do around the set of principals is a completely different enterprise than what the republican party is trying to do. >> and the other thing that gets over stated too. they fight with each other all the time. yes the idea of making, making space for conflict and that point, which is really a pro found one that, the process is part of the value. >> the belief, it's the belief system, it's not like low taxes. how do you get to a decision about low taxes. we care about that and we care about the caucus that says we should not lower them. it's what we believe in. >> it's a harder coalition to keep together. >> yes, yes. it's a true big ten. >> and there's people love to like ride in on this thing of like, oh, well, you know, you don't know that actually, older black voters in queens don't want to defund the police. no, i know that. yeah, i get that. >> i'm from queens. yes, i do understand. >> these liberals, no, no, no there's lots of people. we are talking about 10s of millions people from lots of backgrounds. they have different conceptions. >> and black people have had lots of conflict. >> there are many of them. >> so, all of that is to say that i think that for me, it has been very helpful to be a student of the real civil rights movement rather than just the mcdonald's commercial one because it shows you the kind of conflict that goes in to making something that is worth it. something that is noble. something that is true. something that is democratic and it ain't fun all the time. i will say this though, we have a ball at ldf. i mean, just like you and i are laughing right now. i don't know if you have watched the beatless documentary are. >> it's amazing for different reasons. they are fighting with each other, and almost breaking up and they are making songs. they are doing something -- they love each other. >> they do love each other. >> and they are in conflict with each other and they are doing something beautiful and all of it is together. and it's kind of good democratic political work is like that too. it's tough, period. >> i have said before, every civil rights legislation has been pro seeded by voting rights legislation. it's always something -- you have to tolerate the painfulness of it. >> let me ask you the final question on the court. because you just mentioned, you know, the thurgood marshal and two of many brilliant visionaries who understood and crafted a legal strategy that was not the only part of the civil rights movement but was a key part that struck down -- to himself the ability to rewrite and included in the senate report that accompanied the amendments that he would rewrite the test himself for house judges should apply section two to both denial cases. so these things should bother us as well. it doesn't mean there's nothing that can be done with the court. i've obviously just been on the commission, there's been conversation about expansion and all kind of stuff. a democracy is made up of all the component pieces. one piece is the political piece. i'm not going to let it go. the journalists haven't done their reconciliation. we're going to be in the same position again if journalists don't pause and i don't mean individual journalists -- >> collectively. >> i mean collectively and talk a look at examination at its own practices and how it contributed to the unraveling of democracy. so i think we have a lot of work to do. that's kind of where my head is at right now, what's the work we can push ourselves to do to clean up these elements that allowed this to happen? trump didn't just ride in and roll over the country. he was given the opportunity to unravel the country. i describe it as an accelerant but, you know, the sticks and the twigs were already stacked and there were many people who saw that, you know, he was a fire starter and thought it was kind of a fun show. >> the president of the naacp legal and educational fund, now writing a book. it's a great, great pleasure to get quality time with you. >> if you enjoyed the show tonight, that's great news, i'm glad you did. why is this happening has over three years worth of conversations, just like those that you just saw, ready for you to listen to. you can just binge the heck out of it this holiday season. we do a whole variety of topics that we have never done on the show. we talked to one of my great heros, singer/songwriter and there are new episodes every tuesday and we'll publish tonight as new interviews soon to that podcast feed. thank you for joining us for a very special "all-in" edition of "why is this happening." good night. "why is this happening." good night at fidelity, your dedicated advisor will work with you on a comprehensive wealth plan across your full financial picture. a plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. this is the planning effect. ♪ i'm a reporter for the new york times. if you just hold it like this. yeah. ♪ i love finding out things that other people don't want me to know. mm-hmm. [beep] i just wanted to say... ♪ find yourself in these situations and see who you are. and that's just part of the bargain. ♪ i am robert strickler. i've been involved in communications in the media and that's just part of the bargain. for 45 years. i've been taking prevagen on a regular basis for at least eight years. for me, the greatest benefit over the years has been that prevagen seems to help me recall things and also think more clearly. and i enthusiastically recommend prevagen. it has helped me an awful lot. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. hello and thanks for joining us this hour. nice to have you here. so one thing it has going for it is it has a nice view of the kremlin. this is the bolshoy central bridge in moscow. location, location, location. it sits in the red square and has a great view. in the end the bridge is where they got him. boris nemsoff was the leading opposition leadingn

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