Transcripts For MSNBC Zerlina 20240709

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right now, according to the nation's top health experts. >> at least 39 states and over 75 countries have reported confirmed cases of the omicron variant, and although delta continues to circulate widely in the united states, omicron is increasing rapidly, and we expect it to become the dominant strain in the united states as it has in other countries in the coming weeks. >> the bottom line of what we've been telling you all along, it's critical to get vaccinated. if you're vaccinated, it's critical for optimal protection to get boosted. >> for the unvaccinated, you're looking at a severe winter of illness and death for yourself, your families, and the hospitals you may soon overwhelm. >> whew. they weren't mincing words there. people need to get vaccinated and boosted because the unvaccinated are looking at a winter of illness and death. the surge is causing some schools in several states to temporarily close, and people are once again waiting in long lines to get tested. in new york city where the positivity rate doubled in three days' time, broadway's canceling some performances, and some restaurants are once again shutting their doors. but after nearly two years of this pandemic, the people who may be getting hit the hardest day in and day out, they're in our hospitals, like a group of doctors in minnesota who are literally begging people to get vaccinated. >> every day we think that it can't possibly get harder and that it can't possibly get worse, and every day we come back and it's harder and it's worse. we're exhausted and heartbroken and terrified. many of us are starting to feel helpless because we have been living this crisis for so long. >> every day it gets harder. starting us off tonight is dr. peter hotez. he's the dean of the natural school of medicine. dr. hotez, how bad is this surge going to get? >> it's not looking good, zerlina, unfortunately. we were hoping that we had about a four- to six-week window when we identified the surge in the united kingdom before it came to the u.s. that's what happened with the alpha variant and the delta variant. it's so transmissible, it's hitting us much sooner. tragically it's going to peak over the holidays. christmas day could be one of the worst times in this current surge, and there's three components to it that we need to think about. one, delta's still not gone away. delta's still been climbing. and even without omicron, we would have had a terrible winter because of the unvaccinated and their susceptibility to delta. now superimposed on this is the omicron variant, which is even more transmissible. so we're seeing a lot of disruption because of that. we've got to throw out this notion that some people are circulating that it does not produce severe illness. it does. so far information coming out of england today are saying it's ever bit as severe as everything we've seen before, so we've got to throw that out. but because it's so transmissible, so many people are going to get infected and we're going to be hearing more and more about breakthrough cases even among the vaccinated. so some sobering news, again, out of empirical college, london today. even if you got only two doses of the vaccine, basically the protection you get against omicron is around 10% to 20%, you know, for all practical purposes. it's not protecting. some may impact severe illness, but not much. but even if you get three doses, and it's imperative that you do, it's holding up pretty well against severe illness and hospitalizations, but that third dose, we're still seeing a lot of breakthrough symptomatic infections. maybe it peaks around 70% in the week or two after you get the third dose, but then it declines precipitously. the reason i bring that up is because of the third component of the downbreak. that's the impact on the health care provider. many of us when the booster became available, we were quick to adopt it. what we're seeing is a pretty sharp decline after the third dose against protection, against symptomatic illness. it's still holding up after severe illness or hospitalization, but it's only holding up for three months. that's going to impact a large part of our health care. not only are we going to have a surge pile boog into our hospitals and icus, but a lot of doctors, nurses, respiratory care workers are going to be calling in sick, not because they're severely ill because they got the booster, but because they're sick at home with covid. that's the vulnerability that we could have this one, two, three punch of delta, omicron, and hospital workers calling out sick. so we're not going to have enough staff to take care of people who are in the icu and hospitals. so we have to start thinking now about some innovative and out-of-the-box things we can do. we've already heard how exhausted everyone is. i'm exhausted and demoralized. it's a very sad time, and it's going to be a really rough four or five weeks now. >> that is a really helpful explanation of where we are and where we're headed in the near future. in terms of comparing this particular variant, omicron, to the first two that we saw, the alpha and the delta, when you talk about transmissibility, can you help the viewers at home understand what you mean when you say it's more transmissible than delta because i recall back during delta that being as transmissible as the chicken pox, and so what does it mean for omicron that it's more transmissible than even delta was? >> well, our most transmissible human virus is probably the measles virus and has what's called a reproductive number of between 12 and 18. what that means if the single individual gets it, another dozen or so unvaccinated individuals will get measles. that's why we have to get vaccination coverage over 90%, otherwise, we see measles epidemics pop up like we did in new york back in 2019 because it went down below 95% coverage. omicron is getting up there. it's more than delta, which has a reproductive number of six or seven. so we could be looking at something that's almost as transmissible as measles. that means a lot of people are going to get exposed to omicron. pretty much the entire country is going to get exposed to omicron. and so the best defense you can have is getting that third immunization which holds up pretty much after the booster, but then there's waning after that, still holding up against hospitalization. but, again, probably everybody knows someone who has had break through covid after they got the booster. it's not holding up against the variant. it will save your life, but we're going to have to deal with this large amount of health care providers in new york and across the country in coming weeks. >> in practical terms, if you are planning a holiday gathering or if you're having a family dinner, you're having people travel from out of town, on airplanes and driving -- and you're going to gather because it is christmas -- would you cancel that? it seems to me if you have something as contagious as the measles, you might want to rethink, should they cancel? and if not, if they choose not to, what are some of the steps you would recommend so that they can do those gatherings as safely as possible? >> well, zerlina, it's like you read my mind. my family is just going through this right now, so maybe it's helpful. so i think the first thing to think about is if you're going to be interacting with someone who's particularly vulnerable, meaning of high age, over the age of 75, 80, 90, there's some vulnerability there even with three doses, or if someone is immunocompromised, you may want to rethink this. or, for example -- funny you should ask -- i had to disinvite my mother-in-law. i was going to fly her in from new jersey, have her over for the holidays, see museums, go to restaurants. i asked her not to come. i have an adult daughter or adult son who will be with us. we'll try to keep our gatherings small, do everything possible that we can outdoors, but it's very tough. everyone is dealing with tough decisions right now. >> it's really hard, and i know a lot of people have pandemic fatigue. they want this to be over. i want everybody to know, this is not over. no expert is saying it's over. no doctor, like dr. hotez is saying -- they are trying to keep you safe. i appreciate you being here tonight and for helping us understand how to go into the holiday season starting with this weekend. please stay safe. thank you again. coming up, the former minnesota police officer who shot and killed daunte wright takes the stand in her own defense. an update from minneapolis is up next. om minneapolis is up next what's going on? 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>> most likely not. >> why not? >> an air freshener to me is just an equipment violation, and during the covid times, high covid times, the department of motor vehicles was so offline, people weren't going tabs, and we were advised not to try to enforce those because the tabs weren't in circulation. >> did you ever use the taser, use it by shooting it, in all of you years as a career law enforcement officer? >> i would take my taser out on rare occasions, but i don't believe i ever deployed it. >> the defense has now rested its case. both sides will give their closing arguments this coming monday. joining me now is a civil rights attorney and the former president of the minneapolis naacp chapter. break down kim potter's testimony today. obviously she was emotional. do you think she helped her case? >> i personally don't think she helped her case. i think she tried to offer her strategy in terms of breaking down on the stand and being testimony during the testimony. we know that kim potter is here, she's alive able to tell her story, and meanwhile the family of daunte wright will have an empty chair at their dinner table during the christmas holiday. and so that's where the empathy really belongs, with the victim in the case, not kim potter. even though she feels remorse for what she did, she still needs to be held accountable under ta law. given the fact she was a 26-year police officer, a field training officer, and she should have known the difference between a gun and a taser on that fateful day. >> in terms of her use of force and whether it was justified or not, one of the things that i've been thinking a lot about is what she said there, and it's come up before, which is we didn't want him to drive away. so what? so he drives away. don't they have his driver's license, address, information? didn't he just have an air freshener in the window? with details like that, how are aspects like that presented, using this as an example, by the defense and the prosecution? >> well, i think the defense has done its best to try to paint a picture that kim potter was not only authorized to use a taser in light of the circumstances but that she was authorized to use deadly force. i, of course, disagree with the analysis that the defense has proposed. i feel that they're grasping at straws and try to find any way for the jury to give an escape route to kim potter for her actions in this situation. she did not need to use a taser, nor, of course, did she need to use a gun in this situation, even though the two officers had a tussle going on with daunte wright. they were still, for the most part, cool, calm, and collected. she escalated the situation when she pulled out a weapon and fired and hit this young man and father in the chest, taking his life unnecessarily. >> what did you make of the fact that she said she wouldn't have even pulled him over had she not been training another officer? >> i don't think that that statement helps her case, but that's what a lot of us were thinking in the first place. why in the midst of a pandemic would the law enforcement hone in only someone with an air fresh inner hanging on his mirror or with expired tabs when many of us had expired tabs. that should not have been a priority for the brooklyn center police department. it was almost as if they were doing an experiment and daunte wright was in the wrong place at the wrong time and he bore the brunt of that experiment also known as racial profiling. like officer lucky said, i pulled him over on a hunch. that hunch ultimately led to the events that caused the death of daunte wright. >> i mean i think if it wasn't racial profiling, you'd probably hear of the police pulling over all types of other people. they would have these kinds of interactions with white drivers. it's not like they're not doing the same activities as black drivers or breaking the same laws or smoking weed or doing all of the things that black people do, the same things, but it just seems to be the cases where black people are killed. one last question. do you have optimism minneapolis will be okay if there's a not guilty verdict? >> you know, it's hard to say. we are still on edge here in the aftermath in the murder of george floyd. there's still a great deal of tension. people are watching this case very closely. and brooklyn center is a stone's throw away. it's hard to say how the folks will react if kim potter is found not guilty in this situation. >> we need a lot of peace in the world and in minneapolis. it's always great to have you on. thank you so much for helping us break this all down. please stay safe. coming up, roger stone pleads the fifth. trump's longtime adviser staying hush-hush during his interview on friday with the january 6th select committee. we'll discuss all of that next. e we'll discuss all of that next and it works fast. in as little as 7 days try fast acting biotic gummies from align. the #1 doctor recommended probiotic brand. ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance so they only pay for what they need. 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did you think he was going to walk in and cooperate? >> no. i mean, he has shown himself to be an obstructionist. when he has testified, he's been convicted of lying. the goal there would be to at least lock him into a story or force his hand and see what he's going to do. now he's invoked his fifth amendment rights not to testify, okay, and now they know where they need to go from there. i think it was an important step in the process. >> what kind of information do you think they want or need from him because it is interesting to me that he's like i wasn't there, but then it's like, no, you were there. you were there the fifth and the sixth. i mean what kind of information could they potentially get either from testimony had he testified or from other witnesses as to what he was doing on january 6th? >> so the goal of the congressional committee, of course, isn't about prosecuting people or looking for people engaging in any kind of criminal wrongdoing. it's about figuring out what happened. are there gaps in the law that need to be filled. much like the 9/11 commission report, i imagine the goal is to do the fact finding necessary and do the initial report at the end of all this, and if there are criminal charges if it becomes apparent, share it with the justice department. that's an afterthought compared to what is the goal and the mission here. there is information that roger stone was at the trump international hotel on january 5th, that he was involved in some of the planning of the protests the next day, that he did hire some of the same people who were arrested on january 6th to provide him with personal security on january 5th, so he seems like he was somebody who was involved in all of this planning and could share information with congress that they need to figure out what happened here. >> it seems like he's always in the mix, you know. the netflix documentary calls him the forrest gump of american politics for a reason except for like he's not at the cool stuff but like a lot of the bad stuff like watergate and stuff like that. so some of the other donald trump allies like doj official jeffrey clark, former official and conservative lawyer john eastman, those two folks have come up. they've also said they're going to plead the fifth. what does that mean for the investigation if a lot of these key witnesses are not going to say anything? >> well, a couple of things really. well, one, roger stone says i'm pleading the fifth, but i haven't done anything wrong. you can only plead the fifth if you have a well-grounded fear of criminal prosecution. it could be that the committee makes him go to court and have a judge make a finding there is a fear of prosecution. that being said, most often judges do respect a person's invocation of the fifth amendment because it's a right all of us enjoy. at that point the committee is going to have to make a decision. are they going to allow the defendant to walk away, or they could give them immunity, use immunity, saying nothing here can be used against you in a criminal prosecution later. it's a little bit dangerous because it may mean that they're foregoing criminal prosecution against some of these folks later and even using the testimony later as leverage against other co-defendants in a criminal case down the road. but at some point if they determine their testimony is so important they really want it, then maybe giving them that immunity is really important. in my own opinion for roger stone who's probably going to come in and not tell you anything useful anyway and has been convicted of lying in the past, maybe don't bother with him. but for somebody like jeffrey clark or john eastman who seems to have birthday intimately involved in the strategizing, it may be important to give them immunity so congress can get to the bottom of this. >> i imagine they would want to participate in a valid and righteous investigation if they have law licenses and they want to practice in the future, but just my hunch. professor barbara mcquade. thank you so much for being here and helping us understand all of this news. please stay safe. have a great weekend. coming up, a surprise show of support for the january 6th select committee from mitch mcconnell? 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[daughter] slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. this is your home. this is your family room slash gym. the guest bedroom slash music studio. the daybed slash dog bed. the living room slash yoga shanti slash regional office slash classroom. and this is the basement slash panic room. maybe what your family needs is a vacation home slash vacation home. find yours on the vrbo app. ♪♪ depending on who you ask, the investigation into the january 6th riot is either a search for truth or witch hunt 3.0 as you just heard roger stone say. it was either an insurrection or it was an innocent tourist visit. and as most rational people can see, you know, with your eyes and your ears, this here was not a tourist visit. generally it's been republicans burying their heads in the sand and democrats trying to uncover the truth about what happened, but there is one noticeable exception on the republican side right now, and i have to tell you, i was surprised by this. it's senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. >> you made headlines recently when you said it will be interesting to reveal all of the participants who were involved. can you expand on that comment. >> my point was we're watching the investigation that's occurring over in the house, reading about it like everyone else, and it will be interesting to see who was involved. it was a horrendous event, and i think that what they're seeking to find out is something that the public needs to know. >> that is so interesting, but i also want you to take that and add it to this. remember, mitch mcconnell also said this on the day of the senate vote to acquit donald trump during not the first impeachment but the second impeachment. >> january 6th was a disgrace. american citizens attacked their own government. they used terrorism to try to stop us, a specific piece of domestic business they did not like. they did this because they'd been fed wild falsehoods by the most powerful man on earth, because he was angry he'd lost an election. former president trump's actions preceded the riot for a disgraceful, disgraceful dereliction of duty. >> now, he did vote in favor of acquitting trump's disgraceful actions, but it's the kind of talk that usually gets republicans on trump's bad side. now feuds are starting to reach new heights. politico reports that they've been trying to oust mitch mcconnell from his leadership post, but only two candidates have said so and no sitting senators said they would do so. the grand total is zero. joining me now is a former republican congressman. he was republican but is no longer affiliated with the republican party. david, is mitch mcconnell sending signals there will be a criminal investigation at some point of donald trump for the insurrection? >> look, it's early enough. i think mitch mcconnell hopes something takes down donald trump. the disdain from mitch mcconnell to donald trump is real, but let's not give the majority leader too much credit. he's still about a 6 or 7 on if mccarthy scale of bowing to donald trump when he needs to. this is a minority leader who would gladly accept hershel walker, dr. oz from jersey or pennsylvania or wherever he is if it would elevate mitch mcconnell to the majority in the u.s. senate. i think personally he would wish donald trump would go away. but politically, he's not going to be the one to get rid of donald trump. that's obvious of him having it both ways throughout the first years of donald trump and now throughout the years after. >> i love reality checks. they're really helpful. who do you think is more powerful among republicans now? do you think it's still donald trump? mitch mcconnell obviously has a lot of power over his caucus, but with them fighting, who's in charge? >> yeah. this is an interesting dynamic, zerlina. i confess having run for the u.s. senate, we had some whack jobs during the primaries in florida. i can tell you what every senator is thinking about first and foremost. where is the money coming from. if you're an incoming senator or first round draft pick by the national senatorial committee, the money comes from mitch mcconnell, not donald trump. this is actually a perfect snapshot of the weakness of donald trump. if donald trump actually spent money on other republicans and not grifted off other republicans, he might turn republicans off of mitch mcconnell. right now it takes 10, 20, 30, $100 million. all of that money comes from mitch mcconnell and the national senatorial committee, not donald trump, and i think we know how that affects senatorial behavior on the republican side. >> we really do. the other thing i always think about is all of this fund raises, but it turns out the headlines are saying it's going to his legal defense, so that's not great. >> right. >> i want to turn to the developments this week and liz cheney who we've talked about more than once this week about this scene from the house floor where she read from the united states code. and when you are reading from the book of crimes as i like to call it, you know, and you are describing a set of facts, in this case, donald trump's behavior and his allies' behavior, and what they did leading up to, during, an after the insurrectioning and you apply that to the law you have just read, i see a crime. how did you process that? was she trying to send a signal to the justice department? >> i think she is, zerlina. it think it's becoming clear there was a conspiracy to commit a coup, right? to cancel an election, keep the sitting president in power. and that conspiracy included president of the united states, his chief of staff, at least six members of congress, possible influence by the department of justice at the hands of donald trump himself, and i think that's what liz cheney is telling us. i also think that's what the january 6th committee is beginning to show us as a result of this document production. look, they're now naming nameser, and they're saying from both ends of pennsylvania avenue, from the white house to congress, and the political organizers themselves, this was a conspiracy to commit an authoritarian coup, to keep someone in power who had legitimately lost that power in undermining democracy in the actions of the u.s. senate to actually certify the new president of the united states. that is a conspiracy, and i think liz cheney is leaning into that. and ultimately the question for the 1/6 committee is this, zerlina. if they ultimately overturn evidence that does demonstrate a conspiracy, is it the responsibility of the 1/6 committee and the house of representatives to include liz cheney and adam kinzinger and others to make a criminal indictment to others? i think that's where the house is going, but it's going to be tough on whether or not to pull the trigger on that referral. >> ooh, this is getting very fascinating, and it's certainly historic. jim jordan this week looked on his phone and figured out that the text message that they disclosed that he realized was his was a forwarded message, right? why do you think he can't look in the iphone to figure out how many times he called donald trump? i mean he is the president. do you think he's scared at this moment because he's exposed of having communicated with the president on the day of the insurrection. >> zerzerlina, yeah. these are a bunch of liars who have refused to come forward with it, largely because it's indictful of themselves and also their colleagues. this is the most important thing, zerlina. we have to continue to repeat it. even if, let's say the executive privilege does exist for donald trump and the people around him, the law really suggests it doesn't. even if there are certain privileges within the sitting congress who do not respond to requests by the committee, even if those privileges exist, it doesn't mean you have to use them. it doesn't mean you have to invoke them. right now the call for patriotism for jim gosar and mark meadows and the guy from palm beach with the glasses, they could say, look, you need to tell them what happened on january 6th, and they're hiding. they're hiding behind some privilege and lack of cooperation because that would point the finger at themselves. that's consciousness of guilt and something the 1/6 committee is going to get to. >> thank you as always for being here today, and please stay safe. coming up, 60 years after earning his degree, congressman james clyburn finally got to walk across the stage at his alma mater, south carolina university, with president biden by his side. we'll be right back. , with presn by his side. we'll be right back. it's the most joyous time of year. especially at t-mobile! let's go to dianne. i got the awesome new iphone 13 pro and airpods, and t-mobile is paying for them both! and this is for new and existing customers. upgrade to the iphone 13 pro and airpods both on us. only at t-mobile. hello? 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is it affordable? education, is it accessible, is it affordable? housing? energy? make it accessible and affordable. and nobody with whom i've ever worked in public life is any more committed to that model, that pledge, that might have to my constituents. than joe biden. i know joe. we know joe. but most importantly, joe knows us. >> that was congressman james clyburn of south carolina endorsing joe biden for president just days before the south carolina primary back in 2020. we actually all remember what happened next. i mean, if you don't, like where have you been. biden won south carolina pretty easily. clinched the nomination soon after that. and now, he is the sitting president in the white house. but before james clyburn was a kingmaker or president-maker, if you will, before james clyburn was the highest ranking black member of the congress, he was a college student at south carolina state university. he graduated from the hbcu in 1961, but he got his diploma in the mail. he never got to walk across the graduation stage until now. congressman clyburn was originally scheduled to deliver the commencement address at his alma mater but he wanted to march with his graduates. so, he called his good buddy president joe biden and asked him to speak in his place friday. and based on the history between these two as i mentioned it should come as no surprise that president biden was happy to own own blige. >> you're ready because you're part of a proud and sacred tradition. a hbcu. a purpose, commitment to make a difference in all of their students not just to lift up yourselves, but to lift up others. and institution grounded in the belief that every american, of every race, background and zip code, should have a fair and equal chance to get as far as their god-given talents give them. folks, i see hbcu excellence every day in my administration, i'm not exaggerating. vice president harris, my cabinet, michael regan, administrator of vpa, senior white house staff, staff across my entire administration. graduates, i'm here to congratulate you, but also to let you know that your country, this is not hyperbole is counting on you, counting on you, a chance to turn the dial at the moment we have a chance to do it. the moment i'm committed to make a real promise for all americans, for all of you. >> it's safe to say that is a moment those graduates will remember forever and ever including the one who got his diploma, all the way back in 1961. coming up a viral tiktok trend shuts down schools all across the country. i'll explain what's happening with that, next. ♪ ♪ ♪ downy's been taking you back, since way back. with freshness and softness you never forget. feel the difference with downy. ray loves vacations. but his diabetes never seemed to take one. everything felt like a 'no'. everything. but then ray went from no to know. with freestyle libre 2, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to. and... when he wants to. so ray... can be ray. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us now you know. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ wow... that's so nice! is that a photo of tepechitlan? 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as if we needed anything else, literally, to deal with this week. there was a crazy situation happening on tiktok. did you see that, a viral tiktok that allegedly prompted some school district it's around the country to actually close on friday. law enforcement officials say they have no evidence at all to suggest that the threats are credible. but parents and teachers are justify faebl and understandably concerned. remember, this is all happening less than three weeks after the deadly shooting at oxford high school in michigan. in south dakota, the rapid city school district was among those that shut down because of the tiktok trend. police in rapid city warned that these kind of social media threats just aren't going away. >> i think it's safe to say that social media's a problem. there are people that take advantage of what social media can do. and there's people that hide and love the anonymousness of social media. but the reality is that social media is here. it's not going away. we take all threats very seriously. and we will continue to investigate them as they come up. but, you know, we're not immune from this, this is happening all across the country. >> it is really hard being a kid in america right now. let me just tell you. so, just have a little more patience with everybody, given a little bit more gracegrace. that does it for me, i'm zerlina. you can find me monday through friday on 6:00 through 8:00 on peacock. on the choice. follow us on facebook, twitter, tiktok and youtube. more news is coming up right here on msnbc. ♪♪ ♪♪ first up on msnbc, a new wave of covid is exploding in parts of the country and setting new records for daily cases. >> the surge is here. it's going to get worse. we know it's going to get worse, especially after christmas day. >> what your family needs to know about this latest challenge, one week from christmas day, and nearly two years into the pandemic. in minnesota, an emotional breakdown rocks the courtroom. former officer kim potter

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