and another from someone inside the capitol, best. koo. ever. with the elmo fire gif attached. as the violence continued, one of the president's sons texted mr. meadows. quote, hey uncle mark, it's eric. my dad won't tell me how babies are made. could you? a fourth. save 60% on your next mypillow with offer code hang mike pence. another in all caps. do we hatch out of eggs? >> oh, my gosh. >> i told you. >> that was funny. >> mark meadows is already the john dean of this stuff. >> he is not going to like going to jail if that happens. >> best. koo. ever. k-o-o. we have news here. >> welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, december 15th. >> what's the best part of being in new york, willie? >> you're out of control. >> otb. >> other than otb, holding up the "post." meet the commish. >> elise jordan is here. >> not the commish. we have rev al here. >> host of msnbc's "politics nation." >> tell us about it. >> young african-american dominican woman was in nassau county. had a reputation -- >> not a woke county. >> no, not a woke but a waking. >> oh! that was nice. >> a reputation of being tough but fair, sensitive. i talked to the mayor elect. he told me she was coming on, and my people in the county say she is tough but fair. that's what you need. >> strike the balance. >> fight crime and police reform at the same time. >> yeah, that's great. >> council on foreign relations, richard haass is here. >> willie, we have the "daily news." condemn this stuff. by the way, don jr. texted, i guess, repeatedly, meadows, saying, "come on, come on, do something in there." >> yeah. that was one of the texts that liz cheney read two days ago. again, the dissidents between what he is saying privately to people, pleading, knowing how bad it is, and what he has been saying since is different. members of the media, his family, texting one thing in a panic and saying something else after, downplaying what was happening. >> i said bryce young was one of the athletes who caught mika's imagination a long time. she has another now. steph. >> i like how he celebrated himself. >> he deserves it. last night, steph curry at madison square garden became the all-time leader in three-point shots made, on this right there. look at the release. >> okay. >> the rainbow, it fell in. if he couldn't do it at home, there's no better place than at madison square garden. he talked about that after the game. what a stage, this iconic arena. it was one of the nights at the garden. richard, rev, you've been at the games. there's energy, something different in the building. even the knicks fans were standing every time he touched the ball. the warriors had the ball. he passed ray allen, who they showed there, one of the great shooters of all time. hall of famer, ray allen was on the front row to give him a hug. reggie miller was there, the previous record holder before ray allen. passing it down through the generations to a guy who truly changed basketball, changed the nba with the three-point shot. it's now the focus of many offenses in the league, and it's because of that guy. by the way, he passed ray allen in something like 500 fewer games played, which showed you how many shots he's made over the course of his career. he's revolutionized the game. >> nice that knicks fans finally had something to cheer for last night. >> unfortunately, it was the other game. >> i like how steph curry cheered himself. here he is after the game. >> i think everybody talks about the greatest shooter ever and all that conversation. you know, my respect for reggie and ray, guys who set the bar for what it meant to be a sharpshooter, to have the longevity as well. i never want to call myself the greatest shooter until i got this record, so i'm comfortable with saying that now. >> when people say, who is the greatest shooter of all time now -- >> i got that, baby. >> so funny. >> he gets up and leaves. >> the reason that's a great moment is because he is pretty humble. finally, he was able to just release and say, okay, yes. what you've been saying for the last ten years is true. i'm the greatest shooter that ever lived. >> he's so great. he is also a good guy. >> yeah. >> a decent guy. it's nice, nice when good guys finish first. >> he allowed himself that one moment. >> yeah. >> richard, i don't see it in the "times," but last night -- maybe it was yesterday's paper and i missed it -- but the "times" had quite a reveal about just global warming, what's happening across this country and the world. what's happening with wind currents. what's happening with icecaps, the melting. i mean, this is -- it's just -- we know this is devastating. we know it's been devastating. but the acceleration is even alarming. the world community is just not stepping up. >> people should look at it actually not in the paper but online. it is an extraordinary presentation to look at. look, this is a strange class of crisis. it is a slow-motion crisis. because it is slow-motion, we don't know how to react to it. it is almost more insidious as a result. it's happening, it's happening. people think of it as a future thing. it's both a future thing and a present thing. you talk about the world community, joe. there isn't a world community. that's the deep, dark secret. if there were an international community, we'd come together and do something meaningful about it. but this is spread out. it is slow motion. everyone is responsible. everyone is affected. my fear is we are losing the race. i think the day is going to come, sooner rather than later, that not only does it affect our lives in fundamental ways -- it's already happened. look at the storms, the tornadoes, they didn't just happen. we are having more frequent, more severe storms because of climate change. the effects are going to get more dramatic, and i think we'll be spending more and more money on adapting or resilience to it. >> yes. >> then we're going to have big, big debate, sooner rather than later, about sci-fi stuff. whether we ought to start injecting particles into the atmosphere to reflect solar rays. the question is going to be, what do we do? who decides? how do we guard against unforeseen consequences? this is going to be the life-changing issue of the 21st century. >> it is. >> that's it, right there. >> elise, i have to get my friend on. guy who i was golfing with, a liberal bastion, the republican's republican republican. he is the most intense republican ever. this is a guy who i bet he's never voted for a democrat in his life. we're going around. i go out golfing once every three years, whether i need to or not. we're going around walking around, and we're just -- we're talking. this is the first time i met him and i said, "what do you do?" "work for an insurance company." this hard core republican, i always ask people, basically, what can you teach me about your business in five minutes? he said, i'll tell ya what. we're paying out more money every year, billions and billions every year. this was five years ago. he said, i'm a hard-core conservative. you look at my numbers and look at the amount of payouts our insurance company has. climate change, it's not going to happen. it is happening. it's not going to have a devastating impact on our world. it already is. he said the numbers keep skyrocketing. he goes, we are going down the drain. >> what is it going to take for there to be a palatable private sector solution, tech solution? is it going to have to be a manhattan project, that the government becomes involved in to help private businesses just be invested in this? otherwise, it's not going to -- you're not going to change any one name, any individual's behavior, frankly. it is just not going to happen. you're not going to get china to change their behavior out of the goodness of their heart, if they're going to lose their competitive advantage. it comes down to, what are we going to be willing to do as a government to get this technology going before it's too late? >> the companies are doing well. companies are much more in the lead. you mentioned insurance companies. the insurance industry may not be viable in the long run because they've got all these properties insured. they're going to be flooded. what are they going to do about it? we have to really change where people live, how we insure them. green technology. may not be a big manhattan projects but you may have hundreds of them with green technologies and renewables. companies, because of the pressure from investors, are far ahead of governments. glasgow, companies are in the lead, not government. >> good luck getting insurance in parts of florida. friends and family members lost their insurance. >> locked out. >> people just pull up and say, we're out of florida. it's getting worse and worse. this is also an issue, rev, that actually is especially among younger voters, and i'm always cynical about people talking about younger voters. but the numbers are overwhelming. generationally, younger voters, conservatives, moderates, liberals, whatever it is, they're concerned about climate change. they know it is real, whether their parents and grandparents don't. >> they know it's real and they'll have to live with it. their grandparents and parents may not have to live with it as long. i mean, when you look at the tornadoes all the way to, we're seeing now, glaciers melting, this is real stuff happening right now. when i was a kid, we used to look at it as, you know, science fiction movies, as entertainment. this is now endangering us. this is not entertaining us. i think we are definitely going to have to have governments on a global level come together and deal with this. this is not even going to be something we can deal with nation by nation. >> we're going to be talking about this much more. president biden is headed to kentucky today to meet with grieving families and look at the damage firsthand. jonathan lemire is with us as well in washington. we'll be talking about what's going on there with him. let's start with mark meadows. mark meadows is being referred to the justice department for a potential criminal charge for defying a subpoena to testify before the committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol. last night's vote was mostly along party lines with the two republicans serving on the select committee. vice chair liz cheney and congressman adam kinzinger joining to vote in favor of contempt. the measure had nothing to do with executive privilege or immunity, they say, but it is about meadows' refusal to answer questions about material he has already handed over. on monday night, members of the committee read aloud messages from lawmakers, fox news hosts, and don jr., pleading in real time for donald trump himself to stop the attack. last night, lawmakers revealed a new batch of text messages, this time about efforts to overturn the election. >> on november 4th, a member of this body wrote to meadows, here's an aggressive strategy. one day after the election. why can't the states of georgia, north carolina, pennsylvania, and other republican-controlled statehouses declare this is bs? conflicts and elections not called that night and just send their own electors to vote and have it go to the scotus, the supreme court of the united states. how did this text influence the planning of mark meadows and donald trump, to try to destroy the lawful electoral college majority that had been established by the people of the united states and the states for joe biden? those are the kinds of questions that we have a right to ask mark meadows. >> we need also to ask him about text messages, which he provided to our committee, that show an official in georgia texting mr. meadows during the trump-raffensperger call, saying, quote, they need to end this call and emphasizing, quote, i don't think this will be productive much longer, end quote. we need to talk to mr. meadows about that. >> on january 3rd, mr. meadows was exchanging text messages with a lawmaker about the pressure campaign, to get state legislatures to overturn the results of the election. in one text message to a lawmaker, mr. meadows wrote, he presumably being mr. president, quote, he thinks the legislatures have the power, but the vp has power too. end quote. the power to do what? we could guess the power to overturn the election results. the power to reject the will of the voters. days later, a violent mob tried to get vice president pence to do just that. we'd like to ask mr. meadows about that. >> jonathan lemire, mark meadows now joins steve bannon in being held in contempt of congress, charged with that. this is a fascinating case though. presumably, mark meadows produced 6,000 pages worth of documents. we've been hearing the text messages being read aloud to avoid this charge against him. then he writes a book, immediately backtracks on the book because donald trump got mad at him, calls his own book fake news and refuses to show up for his deposition. though he's handed over the information the committee can use, he is still charged with contempt of congress. >> it was the outcome he was hoping to avoid. not something he wanted. it goes to show, again, how much he is in the grip of trump. first, this is the observation that donald trump jr., while trying to reach his father, had to do so through the chief of staff. a succession move there. secondly, we have discussed conservative media hosts who are saying one thing in public and something very else differently privately. i think we want to drill down on the message we heard from last night. these are republican lawmakers, those who are in the capitol on january 6th and there working before and after -- after the election, before january 6th, trying to do what they can to ignore the will of the people. blatantly suggesting they will throw out votes to put in their own slate of electors. apologizing after january 6th, after the riot, apologizing that they couldn't get it done to keep trump in power. it goes to show the level of coordination between the white house and congress, republicans in congress, about the election and january 6th, to try to keep trump in power. and it goes to show how deeply rotted the system is and why democrats feel like it needs to be changed before 2022. >> yeah. i mean, how frustrating for everybody, for democrats, for members of the press, for people that hear republicans every day saying the sort of things these people text, every day. they've been trashing donald trump for five years every day off camera. yeah, we hate him. can't wait until he goes. he's terrible. then the camera light turns on, and they just are apologists. it's sickening. by the way, he brought up the roys. anybody see the end of "succession"? >> i couldn't watch it. >> did you? >> oh. >> yeah. >> did you? >> wow. >> haven't seen it. >> pretty good. >> no spoilers. >> all i'm going to say is this. >> no, you'll spoil. >> i never saw it. the car just goes over the cliff. they all die. i'm thinking, what's next season? no. >> it's really good. >> -- beginning of the season, you know, afterward, you have to take it back. that's just one hell of a conclusion. >> i thought it was a great season too. the presidential episode, now, that was awesome. just amazing. i really didn't see the end coming, but i'm not going to say anything else. >> we're not going to say anything. >> change the topic. >> yeah. >> what i can tell you, you wouldn't have predicted this ending. >> no. >> nobody could have predicted this ending. >> i have a blasphemous concession. can i say that and work in the media? >> you can. >> i haven't seen it. >> that's fine. >> you and christina need to binge watch this weekend. >> willie, those of us who wonder and succeed somebody, watch it. >> come on. >> that's a loaded statement. >> in the opening credits, there's a woman, and it's such a fox news look. every time i see that, i'm so thankful that mika coached me a bit on how i should dress and look on television so that i don't have that look that comes up at the beginning of "succession." >> i hear you completely. >> okay. i'll follow up with that, i'm a little distracted but okay. i'll follow up with -- what was i going to ask now? "succession," then mika giving clothing advice? >> the context? >> oh, no. meadows is whining, going on news shows every night. >> might cry. >> calling his own book fake news, as willie said. he is just going crazy. as we say in the south, the cow's already out of the barn. >> and bless your heart. >> he let it out of the barn. >> he's the one that not only let it out of the barn but took it down to the river and then, like, let the rope go. just let the cow wander off into the fields. i mean, he has set forth this entire chain of events. >> yeah, he's trying to shovel out his barn right now. not having much luck. it's just piled up there. i guess what shocks me so much about these texts, you know, we hear these kind of comments, you know, over the last five years as you brought up. you hear murmurs from people close to trump. everyone thought he was a moron, what they'd say behind closed doors. they won't say it to their own voters, their constituents, to the people who listen to them, to the people they lead. it is elitist. it is so gross and elitist, that they're willing to say this to each other, and they'll admit the truth to each other, but god forbid they're honest with the people who tune into their network and who voted for them. >> this is a reminder, "morning joe" will, throughout the rest of this year, continue to have its drive for acting lessons for ivy league populists. go to our gofundme site. all of them right now in washington, d.c., and across america. we have graduates from stanford, yale. >> princeton. >> harvard. >> yale has a great drama school too. >> they do. >> meryl streep. >> that guy with the little neck that always talks about that war on masculinity and everything, right? >> okay. >> he could have -- he could have just taken some classes. >> sure. he could audit the class if it is full. >> princeton, you don't think ted could have gone to an acting class at princeton? >> you want some subtlety in your performance. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> no subtlety. you can contribute. acting lessons for the ivy league populists. please, please. this is a sally struthers moment here. they need your help. >> fyi, this is our way of surviving these people, okay? so still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> i'm trying to help them. >> yup. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> they all went to ice ivy league schools. desantis. if he runs for president, like, he's so stupid, he plays so stupid. this yale and harvard guy. they've got signs popping up in florida that says, "make florida america again." it doesn't even make any sense. >> really weird. >> i want to get a sign, and maybe we put a dunce hat on ron that says, maybe a whirly hat, "make desantis smart again." if he went to yale and harvard, i don't know, i'm a southern state school guy, but they're supposed to be pretty smart folk up there. >> it's a shame. >> they're all trump -- >> desantis. >> i don't know how his dad got him into school, but he got into penn. then you have desantis, yale and harvard. you have ted, princeton and harvard. then you've got -- i mean, all these guys that are playing dopes on television, like you said, it is so insulting, this populist game they play. it is insulting. >> and to be able to get into one of those schools from, you know, all over the country, wherever they came from, and then to act this way, like they don't have good sense, it just is so embarrassing to me. i was lucky enough to go to yale from mississippi, and, frankly, if i tried to put on the podunk act, i don't think anyone would buy it. frankly, they shouldn't. but hey. >> by the way, there is a mountain of a man right there, willie. do not attack his masculinity. the bone structure of a bird in those hands, if you look at those hands. >> okay. >> bone structure of a bird. you know, i respect people that could get into those schools. really smart people. i mean, you know, when i say this, i mean this. i went to alabama, and i loved it. i wouldn't change it. then i went to florida law school. absolutely loved it. but i look at these people that went to these extraordinary colleges and universities. >> blessed to be able to. >> so blessed. >> to be on the campuses and learn. >> it really does, it kind of makes me angry that there's so many people that would have loved to have gone there in their place and used those degrees for good. and this isn't ideology. be a conservative. i'm a conservative. but don't be illiberal. >> it is there where you learn about democracies. >> don't do this phony populism that we can see right through. it's such a sham. and it's rich, entitled, connected, ivy league snobs that are playing down to people across middle america, making their lives worse. they're doing this phony populism to give tax cuts to billionaires, to make sure that people that run the biggest tech companies don't pay taxes. it's just repulsive. the worst is donald trump. here's this ivy league guy that inherited $400 million. he plays his phony populism game, and there are sad people, working class people, who are going to jail. >> right. >> because they thought they were doing what was right based on what this phony populist from an ivy league school told them to do, richard. >> it is grotesque. it is cynical, truly cynical. one wonders whether on any of the ivy league campuses, any of them cracked a civics course. did they read the constitution or the federalist papers? did anyone learn to put country before party and person? i wonder. how do these schools feel now? if these are their graduates, the people who enjoy disproportionate power, what does it say about the education -- >> and the legacies of the school. >> what does it say about the education, that these people are doing such damage to american democracy and to our country. when these schools look in the mirror, what do they say about the effect of their education? this is what their most qualified graduates are saying and doing? what went wrong? >> donald trump -- >> i think the cynical part you raise is what is most disturbing. when i was growing up, the conservative, the one you would judge conservatism, was a guy like william buckley who went to yale. he did mock people that were more or less than ivy league. >> right. >> he acted his role. to go from a william buckley out of yale to these guys that are imitating guys that they feel are of a lower -- it's the ultimate level of cynicism. it's like we'd call blackface use, when you're trying to mock blacks. they're mocking people that they never were. i think it means that they really hold them in contempt and their politics really holds them in contempt. >> donald trump is also taking their money. he continues to raise money, asking those people you just talked about, rev, to pay his legal bills. mr. billionaire. >> and he yells at them. >> this is a group of people who know better. >> yeah. >> there are some people in congress, and we could name them, who actually may not know better. the republican colleagues said there's some limitations. >> yeah. >> that's hard. >> we don't hold that against ron. >> ron can't help it. but it's the people who know better. it is beyond cynical. they're pretending their party didn't try to overthrow a presidential election. that's anti-democratic. it is worse than being cynical. >> unpatriotic too. they're putting the country at risk. >> again, it has nothing to do with ideology. if you watch this show, i mean, my ideology is still -- i'm still, you know, conservative. maybe centrist, conservative centrist, whatever. it has nothing to do with ideology. it has everything to do with liberalism. it's this phony, populist game. while they're doing the phony, populist game, they're helping billionaires and multi-national corporations escape taxes. speaking of which, i know we have to go to break, but since we're here and everything is free jn free-flowing, i have to say, you know, i understand "time" person of the year, the idea is to get -- >> oh, no, i really like this. >> i have to say this though, i'm disgusted that elon musk was chosen as "time" person of the year. disgusted. when you have officer goodman. >> yes. >> eugene goodman. >> let me say also, you have the united states supreme court, conservatives and liberals all. you have federal judges, conservatives and liberas all. you have the kid up in michigan. you have people in georgia, republicans. you've got republicans and democrats who literally, "time" magazine, literally saved democracy in january. literally, literally saved democracy. >> not being melodramatic here. and elon musk gets it? >> it was the most confuing interview i've ever done. >> what happened? >> it was yesterday. >> what in the holy hell? why? >> he didn't seem excited about it. i'm like, he's rich. >> he was on "saturday night live." >> how about the miracle workers who developed a vaccine? >> exactly! >> what? >> i mean, i didn't even think there was another choice beyond that. >> right. >> it was -- >> thank you for bringing that up. i should have said it in real time, but i was in shock. i was like, what am i missing? >> it was the threat to democracy and the threat to human life. either one or both could have shared the award. the idea that they -- >> could have been a shared award. >> but they give it to elon musk? >> teslas are nice, and i'm glad they help the environment, but mrna discovery, pretty big. >> you think? >> i still think the man is -- >> january 6th was the single most important day of the year. >> thank you. >> out of 365 days. >> "time" missed it. >> the most important day to democracy in a century. >> exactly. we're talking about the 1850s. now we're talking about january 6th, 2021. that's the historical parallel. >> thank you. >> that is what cannot be missed. >> i'm still gobsmacked. i don't know who the runners-up were. i'm hoping it's what we mentioned. doesn't matter. >> the doctors. >> bad choice. >> i do have to say, at some point, somebody really needs to stop and give a bow to the federal judiciary. make no mistake about it, madisonian democracy did work. the first branch was corrupted by donald trump. the second branch, let's not even talk about it. the federal judiciary stepped up, and they stepped in the gap. they provided the check and the balance to save this democracy. >> any of them would have been good. >> too close for comfort. >> yeah. oh, no, far too close for comfort. i'm saying, let's elevate those people that saved this western style democracy, that saved madisonian democracy this time. let them know how much they're appreciated because they're going to be called on again in '24. >> not just judges but a couple state officials. it shows what a couple of people -- you know, if john kennedy were alive today, these would be people who would get a chapter in "profiles and courage." state officials who stood up -- >> but not "time" person of the year. still ahead, as the president visits kentucky today, we'll have the latest from the storm-ravaged state. more than 100 people are still unaccounted for after last week's deadly tornadoes. plus, a trump-appointed judge strikes down the former president's latest bid to keep his tax returns secret. and that's not trump's only legal trouble. a grand jury has heard testimony from his long-time accountant. we'll bring in one of the reporters who broke that story. ahead, one major company lays out plans to fire employees who don't comply with covid-19 vaccine rules. you're watching "morning joe. 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...or cold? no problem, the sleep number 360 smart bed is temperature balancing so you both sleep just right. and it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. so, you can really promise better sleep? yes! you'll know exactly how well you slept, night after night. we take care of the science. all you have to do is sleep. don't miss our weekend special. save 50% on the new sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 48 months. ends monday. there's mika's condo right there, willie. right at the top of the comcast. you wonder why she has so many satellite dishes? >> is that directv? >> my dad used to have one of those when we lived in mississippi. you'd go out. you can see the atlanta falcons play the eagles that weekend. >> i still see those sometimes and go, wow, hanging in on that big dish you see in yards. >> if i live there, it means he lives there, okay? >> no, no. >> excuse me? >> he lives in a flophouse. >> you won't let me up there with your rich friends. willie comes by, gives me tv dinners, slides it under the door. it's a good life. >> all right. later today, we're going to be celebrating the women of "forbes"' inaugural 50 over 50 list. i'm excited about this. i'm going to be sitting down for a conversation today with the first lady, dr. jill biden. you will see that interview tomorrow right here on "morning joe." we'll be marking a moment in history, having a major "know your value" and "forbes" global announcement at the event today. you'll hear all about it tomorrow, here on "morning joe." also, on my first episode of my new limited series podcast, "mika straight up," it launches tomorrow. you can listen wherever you get your podcasts. visit mikastraightup.com for more information. >> i'm excited about this. >> i like that. >> the podcast is fun. >> it is crazy, going international, babe. it is going global. >> we all have the podcast now. we're good. >> this is great. >> okay. >> by the way, "time" magazine did list the vaccine doctors as their heros of the year. they have several categories but not people of the year. >> and the people that saved democracy? >> not good enough. >> they're okay with us. a long-time accountant for former president donald trump who helped prepare his taxes and financial statements recently testified before a grand jury in new york. the "washington post" reports donald trump bender from mazar's usa appeared before a jury panel ed to weigh potential criminal charges. investigators interviewed trump's financial adviser and a former deutsche bank employee who arranged hundreds of millions in loans to donald trump. joining us now, "washington post" reporter, msnbc contributor. david, how big a deal with this? >> well, it is a pretty big deal. you know, cyrus vance, the manhattan da, is trying to consider criminal charges against somebody in the trump organization. the key is showing intent. not just showing the trump organization gave incorrect numbers to property tax officials or lenders, but they meant to do it and intended to deceive. how do you prove that? how do you show what somebody meant to do if you don't use email, as trump doesn't? you have to find the people that talk them. what were they talking about? what did they know at the time? these are the people who would have the answers. we don't know what they've said, but they're talking to people outside the company who still know trump and his finances very well. >> david, two questions for you. first on this investigation, cy vance is leaving office in a couple weeks. tell us how this will continue once he is no longer district attorney. there is also a second probe, one by the attorney general, tish james, who is not running for governor but seeking re-election. >> this is confusing for people because there are two investigations in new york basically covering the same ground. letitia james, the attorney general, is looking into a civil investigation, and the da's investigation could end in charges. cy vance is leaving the end of the month. the newly elected da is taking over. he hasn't said much, but he hasn't given indication he is going to change course or stop the investigation. people inside the investigation expect it to continue. i can't guarantee there will be criminal charges, but it still seems like that's on the table, certainly, because they just started a new grand jury to consider those charges. >> what timeline are we looking at? when you say criminal charges, who would those be against, donald trump the person or the organization? >> the timeline looks like we won't see anything until the end of january or beginning of february, maybe after that. but that seems as soon as it could be. the question of who they would charge, still very open. obviously, two of trump's corporations have already been charged. along with his chief financial officer last year about payroll tax fraud. it'll be against a person like donald trump, against a person in the organization. it seems like it would be trump. that is the person they've been driving at the whole time. there really was no other decision maker in this company. if you're going after the company, go after a person who was calling the shots, the rest of the company was built to carry out donald trump's whims. there was nobody else making decisions there. >> david, tell me with the sequencing of all of this. i remember when we got the big announcement that there was going to be charges, and it ended up being against the cfo. the charges were for, like, i don't know, he didn't claim taxes on formats that he wrote around. it was so insignificant compared to what everybody was expecting. am i reading too much into this, or does it seem like the pace of these investigations against donald trump and his organization are quickening and, in fact, he may be in real legal jeopardy now? >> i do get the sense they are quickening. i don't think it'll be another year or more. i think it'll be decided within the next few months. the problem here is new york law. the reason most of these cases, white collar crime cases, are prosecuted federally is there is a better federal law for prosecuting bank fraud. new york law, you have to make charges about false statements, falsifying a business record, that are low-level felonies. they also require proving this level of intent. it's a complicated case. it is not often used under new york law. that's one of the reasons why this is taking so long. >> all right. david, thank you so much. >> appreciate it. senators raphael warnock's impassioned plea. if lawmakers can change the filibuster rules to raise the debt ceiling, why can't they do to raise the ceiling of democracy? "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ tonight's gonna be a good night that tonight's gonna be a good, good night ♪ their car insurance. ow! i'm ok! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ only in theaters december 17th. as i observe investors balance risk and reward, ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i see one element securing portfolios, time after time. gold. your strategic advantage. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ "how bizarre" by omc ♪ no annual fee on any discover card. ♪ ♪ i was injured in a car crash. discover card. i had no idea how much my case was worth. i called the barnes firm. when a truck hit my son, i had so many questions about his case. i called the barnes firm. it was the best call i could've made. your case is often worth more than insuran call the barnes firm to find out i could've made. what your case could be worth. we will help get you the best result possible. ♪ the barnes firm, injury attorneys ♪ call one eight hundred,est resul eight million ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." 47 past the hour. a live look at the people's house in washington, d.c. so beautiful. congress has approved a measure to raise the debt ceiling by $2.5 trillion, avoiding a catastrophic default. the house passed legislation early this morning, hours after the senate approved the bill. this comes after a bipartisan agreement last week to allow democrats to raise the debt limit with a simple majority. instead of the typical 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster. meanwhile, democratic senator raphael warnock of georgia made an impassioned speech on the senate floor yesterday, arguing that if lawmakers could finesse the filibuster in order to increase the debt ceiling, the same thing could be done to pass voting rights legislation. take a look. >> we set the stage to raise the nation's debt ceiling. and, yet, as we cast that vote to begin addressing the debt ceiling, this same chamber is allowing the ceiling of our democracy to crash in around us. the american people have been pushing for leaders in washington to address voting rights. democrats have tried again and again to engage our republican friends in a discussion on this issue, one that lies at the foundation of our democracy, and time and time again, because of a lack of good faith engagement, the rules of the senate have prevented us from moving that conversation forward. we could not imagine, we could not imagine changing the rules. that is, until last week. because last week, we did exactly that. be very clear, last week, we changed the rules of the senate. to address another important issue, the economy. because while i deeply believe that both our democracy and our economy are important, i believe that it is misplaced to change the senate rules only for the benefit of the economy, when the warning lights on our democracy are flashing at the same time. and if democrats alone must raise the debt ceiling, then democrats alone must raise and repair the ceiling of our democracy. how do yes in good conscience justify doing one and not the other? some of my democratic colleagues are saying, what about bipartisanship? isn't that important? i say, of course it is. but here's the thing we must remember, slavery was bipartisan. jim crow segregation was bipartisan. when colleagues in this chamber talk to me about bipartisanship, which i believe in, i have to ask, at whose expense? who is being asked to foot the bill for this bipartisanship? is liberty itself the cost? i submit that that's a price too high and a bridge too far. future generations will ask, when the democracy was in a 911 state of emergency, what did you do to put the fire out? did we rise to the moment, or did we hide behind procedural rules? i believe that we democrats can figure out how to get this done, even if that requires a change in the rules. which westablished just last week that we can do when the issue is important enough. well, the people of georgia and across the country are saying that voting rights are important enough. i think the voting rights are important enough. >> what a compelling argument. rev, all we've been hearing is, we can't change the rules of the filibuster. we can't do simple majority vote. yet, as senator warnock said, they did it last week. and, you know, the warning lights are blinking red on this democracy. and i keep hearing democrats, that i talking about bbb. it's not going to pass this year. manchin said that. he started saying that in september, and i'll be dammemedf i don't see a woke columnist saying they're shocked that manchin said it's going to not pass. i bring that up to say, focus on first thing's first, saving democracy. getting rid of the electoral -- what is it -- the electoral count act of 1887. that allows congress to rig elections. instead, turning it over to the courts. the "wall street journal" editorial page and the "new york times" editorial page say we should do this. the white house needs to focus on voting rights and say, we're going to get back to bbb. we're going to focus on the economy, and we're going to focus on securing american democracy. we'll get to bbb next year. but they seem -- the democratic party right now seems to have everything backwards. >> i couldn't agree with you and senator warnock more. you must remember, while they're going through this democratic party stalling, and some not say saying in the democratic senate caucus, let's fight for a carveout, they are changing election laws in these states while we speak. we're not talking about something that may happen. they have unseeded election boards in georgia. they've nullified voting in georgia. >> rev -- >> we need these now because the other side, they're acting now. i was, yesterday, at a forum at the white house in the treasury department. vice president harris said it right, we are fighting globally about whether autocracy works or democracy works, and we're not proving that democracy is working here. we will not give, as priority, the protection of the right to vote while states are taking them away actively. texas, georgia, north carolina, ohio. this is happening right now. this is not happening next year, senator manchin. it is happening right now. we need a right now addressing of this. otherwise, it'll be too late next year. we will go through martin loout uther king day the end of january celebrating the fact that we have rescinded everything martin luther king stood for. >> and ralph warnock was talking about bipartisanship, slavery, jim crow laws. let's look at the positive side. 2012, republicans unanimously reauthorized the voting act of 1965. unanimously. now, they can only get one or two? this can't be done in a bipartisan manner? this is not the republican party of 2005 that unanimously did that, that would have been ashamed to not reauthorize the voting rights act. and, yet, again, i'm sorry, this is where you hit the button and you stop everything. because it's not about making it as tough to vote as it was in 2016 or 2018. we're talking about who is counting the votes, how they're counting the votes, who decides which votes to be counted. this isn't about actually getting people to the polls and voting. this is afterwards. these state legislatures have clearly said, and we see it in the text messages, why don't we just send a different set of electors? in your talk with hillary clinton, she, too, was a bit confused, why isn't there urgency on this? it goes to the hall and there's talk about pbb. it is tone deaf. >> hillary clinton was at her most passionate during our conversation in talking with that. she understands bbb. there's a lot in there we need to pass as a country. but this is the blinking red light. it's in front of us. it'll affect the election in '22 and potentially in '24. jonathan lemire, i think that's some of the frustration you hear, not just from people like hillary clinton but down at the state level, who are reminding democrats and saying, we were that close. we were one brad raffensperger away from flipping the election to donald trump in the state of georgia or the state of michigan or the state of arizona. if there's somebody else in there, if there is somebody who is primarilying right now, brad raffensperger, it swings the other way. what is president biden doing? how is he sifting through the priorities? he wants bbb, but it doesn't have to be the for the people act which federalizes some actions of elections, but what about the john lewis act? >> this is the debate in the white house. it is about sequencing. they want to get the build back better bill first, preferably before christmas. >> they're not going to get it. joe manchin, i swear to god, i'm tired about reading stories about joe manchin where people are shocked, shocked, shocked that joe manchin is doing what he's been saying he'd do since july, since august, since september. he's not going to support this bill. i'm sorry, jonathan. i didn't mean to cut you off. i'm talking to democrats, look at his words for the past six months. he is going to wait until it is scored. he is going to see the impact on the tax code. he is going to see the impact on environmental regulations. yes, you can write your stupid articles about how he is corrupt and rigging the process all you want. that's fine. but he's going to wait to see how the legislation looks. because i know it's shocking in 2021, he is a legislator. whether you love him or hate him, the reality is, your insults aren't going to move him. so why don't we move bbb to the side until next year, and why don't we start worrying about our democracy? start worrying about the rigging of the election in 2022 and 2024. start worrying about the john lewis voting rights bill. start worrying about getting rid of the electoral count act of 1887, which everybody agrees is a terrible piece of legislation, a terrible bill that allows congress to rig elections. >> okay. so jonathan lemire is going to answer. he is going to answer your question after a quick break. >> that's why i did this. hold on. >> back in two minutes. back in two minutes. new peppercorn ranch, new hickory-smoked bacon, new- did you just spike the footlong? sorry, i didn't want the delay of game. save big. order through the app. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. save big. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪♪ beautiful look at the white house. >> mika, there are moments in this show's history where there was an answer -- >> that changes -- >> it changes everything. it kind of makes me emotional. >> i see that. >> jonathan lemire just gave one to us. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> jonathan, you go. you're up. >> five seconds. >> not five seconds. the question was like chris matthews level question. >> you answered it. >> the distinguished gentleman from brooklyn. >> we built the suspense there, joe. that was really good television. yeah, so basically, this is what the white house says. the only person in washington who thinks the build back better bill is happening this year is schumer. others understand it is january, and it could be beyond that. voting right it is the priority. aides understand they're progressive groups to do that. we had the deputy secretary on at 5:00 a.m., and i pushed her on this. would the president support some sort of change to the filibuster, which, of course, is the obstacle on the federal level for voting rights reform. and the answer is still, he wants to wait and see what the senate does first before he weighs in. but they recognize, this is going to be the first quarter of 2022. voting rights will be a priority for this white house, which to this point, it really hasn't been, despite a few fiery speeches. they recognize that the liberal base demands that to happen because time is running out with the 2022 midterms on the horizon. there's your answer. >> rev? >> i think that we are acting as though this white house has options. they can either make this a priority, or their voting base will not make turnout a priority for them next year. it is that simple. i'm hearing all over the country people saying that joe biden said, when he won, the night he won, his victory speech, black america, you had my back, i will have yours. not, i will have yours after bbb passes. not after i get some other things i want. i will have your back. there is nothing more fundamental to having our back than voting rights. and you cannot put that on a "i'm going to wait until the senate acts." >> on that front, you said he needs to make it a priority. let's make it clear, he has to make it the priority. >> absolutely. >> everything needs to move to the side. he needs to call everybody in. this has to be the priority. if all of this needs to pass, i don't give a damn whether it is 50 or 60 votes. it needs to pass on martin luther king day, junior king day in 2022. it needs to pass by that time. they have time to do that. it has to be the priority because joe biden would not have gotten out of south carolina without black voters. joe biden would not have won georgia or any of these states without black voters. this is the priority, and not for black voters but all voters. i'll be damned, republicans are going to wake up one day six years from now, and they're going to turn around and they are going to be glad that these safeguards to democracy will pass. they're going to be in the minority, and they're going to be glad that these bills are passed. >> martin luther king iii said next year, there can be no celebration of his father's holiday without this legislation. >> yeah. >> and joe biden can pick up the phone and call, and i think you're right about senator manchin, beating up on something already said. okay, we get it, you're not dealing with bbb the next year. we need you now on voting. give manchin the chance to stand up and say, let's do it this way or that way. but let's quit playing games that we can't move until after bbb. we can move if we decide to move, and we must move. >> i saw jonathan's interview with jean-pierre, and we love her. she's great, fantastic. she said this thing you've heard for a year from the white house and from supporters of the white house, which is, he is doing everything he can. the president is doing everything he can. and i say, humbly and respectfully, it's just false. it's like the president has given a couple of speeches. he gave one back in july -- was it june, july? one at the summit for democracy last week. we see what happens when a president decides something is their top priority. barack obama, for ten months, didn't let a day go by without talking about the affordable care act. he went out of the country and talked about it. ran ads. talked about it at press conferences and interviews. he used the bully pulpit. the notion the filibuster, well, don't have the votes in the senate, filibuster is there, that that's, we have to stand back until something happens, that's been the passivity on the issue and frustrating for people who care about it. it is 100% correct, joe biden is not president without black votes in key states around the country. look forward. stacey abrams is running for governor in georgia. if african-americans don't turn out in large numbers, democrats are going to get their clocks cleaned in the midterms. they're not going to win the georgia governor seat. that'll matter in 2024 if joe biden runs for re-election. this is a forward-going issue. the last thing, there's research on this now, african-american voters are dispirited, discouraged. >> absolutely. >> the base of the democratic party thinks joe biden has let them down. they're happy with the covid relief. they like the fact that unemployment is going down. there are jobs out there. but in georgia, in particular, black voters in the key parts of georgia, there's, again, the democrats are pulling this stuff, there is erosion. they don't like it. not only can they not survive erosion, stacey abrams can't survive erosion and other democratic candidates. they need to have it at the max in 2022. without this piece of legislation, i don't think they'll get it. >> they'll lose the senate and the congress. they'll not only put abrams at risk, they're only 50/50 now. they lose one seat, they lose the senate. there is not only a dispirited feeling in georgia among blacks, it's all over the country. >> yes. >> because when do we become a priority if we made you a priority? people stood in line eight or nine hours to put this man in the white house. we're not asking for a favor here. we're saying, we invested in you for you to pay back for the investment that you promised. >> make good on your promises. >> make good on your promises. that's all. >> it's very important to note, again, this isn't just for black voters. >> that's right. >> it matters the most to black voters now because this is who republican legislature -- republican legislators are specifically targeting and who have been targeted through the decades, over a century. but this is also for hispanic voters. it is also for asian-american voters. this is also for white voters. if you're in the wrong voting block, laws are being passed that legislators can just cut you out and not count your vote. willie, again, this is a -- this should be a priority. >> building back democracy. >> for all voters. this is all about sequencing. nobody here is saying, oh, let's not get to build back better. this is all about sequencing. go ahead, let's see what inflation does. let's see how the scoring does. finish actually writing -- i wish i could swear this morning but i won't -- finish writing the bill. get the legislative language. get it to the parliamentarian. do the things that grown-up legislators do, and then talk about passing bbb. right now, willie, again, this -- everybody i talk to that's worried about democracy, they're all looking at this saying, this is the bill. you're right, you're not just talking about hr-1 which federalizes way too many things. there's a lot of crazy stuff which will never pass. we're talking about the john lewis voting rights act, which the supreme court said, hey, you need to do this for us. the old reauthorization is dated. pass something like the john lewis voting rights act. then they need to address how these state legislators are changing the rules to say, we're not going to let local voting officials count. we'll decide who can count and who can't. >> joe manchin said for months, too, on bbb and this, he is open to the john lewis voting rights act. not to hr-1, but he is open to talking about that. his concern was the filibuster. chief white house correspondent from the "new york times" peter baker is with us. what is your read from the priorities of the white house and whether they understand what people like hillary clinton, people at the state level are saying, which is voting and securing of the elections is the most important thing in front of us right now? >> yeah, look, i think they do understand that, of course, but they have had a very, very tunnel-vision view of priorities on the hill. get bbb done because the longer you take in getting there, the worse it gets in terms of your chance of passage. i think they're looking at a clock that is just ticking relentlessly at this point. the closer we get to next year, the further into next year we get, the harder it becomes. they all look, of course, at november of next year, when most people, many people expect one, if not both, houses to switch hands. in which case, obviously, all chances for all legislation from one party only are going to go out the window. you're right, it is about sequencing. it is about priorities. it is about mobilizing your base. it is about keeping the promises you make. but the promise for the white house is being able to get this done in the expeditious way. they are running out of time. their sole focus is get bbb done, then you move on to other things, they're not looking like they'll get that done soon. it is holding up the whole list of priorities they'd like to focus on, including, of course, voting rights. >> also, i'll just say that from joe manchin's point of view, and he is not alone, 7% inflation doesn't help the chances of bbb. another $1.75 trillion into the economy. >> i'll tell ya what, let's do something radical. let's see what happens to inflation over the next three months while they're finishing the bill, while they're passing it through the parliamentarian, continuing their negotiations. let's see what happens before you pump another $2 trillion into the economy. it's radical. again, got to have light touch. legislative sequencing. there are no hard, fast rules that you have to pass these things first. also going on on capitol hill, the house is now referring former white house chief of staff for president donald trump, mark meadows, to the justice department for a potential criminal charge for defying a subpoena to testify before the committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol. last night's vote was mostly along party lines, with the two republicans serving on the select committee, liz cheney and congressman adam kinzinger, joining to vote in favor of contempt. the measure had nothing to do with executive privilege or immunity, but it is about meadows' refusal to answer questions about material he has already handed over. on monday night, members of the committee read aloud messages from lawmakers, fox news hosts, and don jr., pleading in real time for donald trump to stop the attack as it was happening. last night, lawmakers revealed a new batch of text messages. this time about efforts to overturn the election. >> on november 4th, a member of this body wrote to meadows, here's an aggressive strategy. one day after the election. why can't the states of georgia, north carolina, pennsylvania, and other republican-controlled statehouses declare this is bs? conflicts and elections not called that night and just send their own electors to vote and have it go to the scotus, the supreme court of the united states. how did this text influence the planning of mark meadows and donald trump, to try to destroy the lawful electoral college majority that had been established by the people of the united states and the states toward joe biden? those are the kinds of questions that we have a right to ask mark meadows. >> we need also to ask him about text messages, which he provided to our committee, that show an official in georgia texting mr. meadows during the trump-raffensperger call, saying they, quote, need to end this call, unquote. and emphasizing, quote, i don't think this will be productive much longer, end quote. we need to talk to mr. meadows about that. >> on january 3rd, mr. meadows was exchanging text messages with a lawmaker about the pressure campaign to get state legislatures to overturn the results of the election. in one text message to a lawmaker, mr. meadows wrote, he -- he presumably being president trump. quote, he thinks the legislatures have the power, but the vp has power too. end quote. the power to do what? we could guess the power to overturn the election results. the power to reject the will of the voters. days later, a violent mob tried to get vice president pence to do just that. we'd like to ask mr. meadows about that. >> elise, here we have the road map. we were just talking about what could happen in 2024. here we have members of congress asking why they couldn't do this in 2020. >> this is why there has to be action. there has to be action on voting rights, protecting and preserving everyone in the country's right to vote. can you imagine if a significant block of the republican electorate was hampered or hindered in any way, shape, or form from being able to vote easily? what would republicans be doing right now? that's what i ask democrats. they would be raising holy hell to make sure there was no obstacle in any way, shape, or form. you don't see the same kind of urgency on the behalf of the democrats. they have john lewis, who is the figure head of this bill, such a respected, revered figure, that they have attached it to. they need to be talking about this all the time and invoking john lewis' legacy. >> i don't understand the lack of urgency. i never have. peter baker, we were showing the "new york post," "daily news." "daily news" this morning having don jr. -- >> doing the right thing. >> yeah. >> didn't see that coming. >> begging his father to stop. all these other members begging his father -- or begging don jr.'s father to stop what was going on january 6th. now, you have liz cheney, who is -- you look at her movement. you look at what she's doing on the committee. he is clearly trying to set donald trump up for a criminal charge for obstruction. >> well, i mean, these text messages are so powerful, of course, because they're voices in the moment, in the midst of this crisis, in the midst of this emergency, and show that even the president's own, you know, son, his own supporters, his own, you know, media allies all recognize that he was the one person who had the power to do something to stop this. we know, of course, what he did do and what he didn't do that day. i think one of the things this committee is trying to get at is what happened inside the white house on january 6th? what did the president do or not do? why didn't he take a more aggressive stance when his own children were saying, stop this from happening. the messages he put out, obviously, were equivocal at best, and we don't have a real portrait of what was going on in the west wing that day. mark meadows could provide that. obviously, the other thing that we learn in these text messages over the last couple days is it wasn't on just january 6th. this was building over two months' time. the whole idea of challenging the election, of trying to overturn the will of the voters, was in the works from the day after the election itself. this is a coordinated effort by mark meadows, by the white house, and the people in congress, their allies there and other people who were involved in this effort. it is an extraordinary, you know, level of detail that we're seeing, and i think you can understand why they want to see more. >> i think it is interesting, over these last couple days, watching this all happen from a slightly -- one step back, you know, you've seen, as the committee has done, as read these text messages monday and tuesday in respective venues, you see both kind of the possibilities and the limits of doing what they are going to have to do soon in the old way. it's like there's a -- everyone around the table thinks this committee is important. out in america, there's not the same feeling. there is not a sense the nation is watching all this in the way they watched the watergate committee, right? >> right. >> so for this committee, which is now introducing powerful evidence on a variety of fronts and is winning in the courts in a lot of ways, a moment is coming where they're going to have to elevate their work in a way that kind of commands national attention and will be massively effective. >> how? >> i don't know the answer, but it is not going to be by having clips from c-span from the house floor or committee hearings in the middle of the day that sometimes get picked up on cable news. it has to become a thing where, you know, is the right thing to do -- as liz cheney suggested, she wants weeks of public hearings. is there a way to get those in primetime? is there a strategy that would take on the complexity of our news environment now, a social strategy, a digital strategy, a broadcast strategy? people have to start thinking about if they're going the punch through with this material, how do you tell the story in one place at one time in a coherent way where you pull it all together and then really break through the noise and the clutter of our media environment, so people in the country, to the extent it is possible in this modern age we live in, that people actually have a moment where they look up and go, okay, we're going to focus on this and let them tell their story with all the best evidence they introduce and really make people say, oh, this is really what happened here. it's a huge challenge. i don't have the answer, but you have to think outside the box and not do this in the old way. the world doesn't receive this information in the old way. it'll be background noise for a lot of people if they don't figure out how to break through. >> the thing is, if they figure it out, and they probably need to get somebody outside the committee to help them present this. >> yeah. >> if they present it in the right way, it would be about as compelling a hearing as any since watergate. >> i agree. >> you look at the violence. you look at the people beating cops. trying to beat them to death with american flags. you look at these text messages that are going on at the same time. you look at donald trump staring at the television, as ben sasse said, and gleeful at what he was seeing. there are so many ways to set up a timeline here to show what's happening. all of america would be absolutely transfixed. and it could be a game-changer if they knew how to do it. >> it must be. the stakes, as we all agree, couldn't be higher. the stakes couldn't be higher. i was thinking about this. >> all right. still ahead -- >> i have to ask john quickly, really important. >> tends to be -- >> i understand billie eilish yesterday told howard stern that get back was tedious. >> are you taking a shoe at that? >> i'm not a believer in cancel culture, but there are certain things for which some people should be canceled. >> come on. >> i'm not saying billie eilish should be canceled but that opinion is beyond the pale. >> as a regular howard listener, he loves the beatles, but he was -- he thought it was a bit too long. he's made that point almost every day. >> really? >> yes. >> me, too, thinks -- >> he wanted it to be accessible to people who weren't as crazy a beatles fan as you and he are. >> they can do a one-hour thing. >> they don't have to watch it. if you don't want to watch it, just change the channel. it is dangerous to say on television. >> i saw some of it again this past weekend. it is extraordinary. >> it seems a little long when you watch it through for the fifth time. that's when i start to feel it was tedious. >> i want to say one more time, because we haven't talked about this enough -- >> oh, my gosh. >> -- i am struck every time i look at it, the joy of john lennon. there has been for 40, 50 years since the breakup, you know, they've all been made into cartoon characters. paul was a hard-driving sergeant that, you know, made everybody angry. john was sort of the angry, disconnected, stoned out of his mind, acid-tripping guy who wasn't even connected to the sessions. you go through all of that stuff, and you see john is completely -- what is so funny is, these guys believed their own negative press clippings. the breakup was so ugly. after that, it's like paul mccartney and ringo, of course, as you know, peter jackson, showed them the clips. willie is gritting his teeth. >> i'm not. >> we'll talk about rolling stones, i promise. >> no, i'm not. >> but they were stocked by how much fun they had. and glen johns who, by the way, come on, he needs a fashion award. the academy needs to give him a fashion award. but glyn johns always saw "let it be" and thought it was bs. he said, the only thing i remembered was everybody having a lot of fun. these guys were family. they loved each other. somebody got mad, walked out and quit one day. he goes, it happens at work. these things happen. but these guys loved each other. they were brothers. >> as we said that day on the show a couple weeks ago, the first movie is one of the great acts of cultural misinformation of all time. you watch the movie. i have friends who were mocking everything. wow, they hate each other, as they're laughing and joking and riffing threats. there's more moments of joy and camaraderie and friendship than there are moments of tension in the movie. i think it gives the lie to the original movie and helps us see this thing anew in the proper light. >> i have to say, mika, i think we're going to have to talk to howard. >> yeah. >> i want to be clear, he liked it. he is a huge music fan, as you know. he just understood how some people thought it might be long. >> tedious? >> that's what i'm saying. you know, maybe it is a little long by someone's standards. but tedious, by someone who makes music, who is a professional -- >> kind of shocking. >> a good musician. great musician. >> love her. >> tedious doesn't seem right. >> well, you have to be nice to howard. remember when he called and he was concerned about meatball? >> howard actually gave meatball his name. >> he was very upset. >> howard stern named meatball? i didn't know that. >> meatball -- >> this is breaking news. >> she said meatball, this is a special one. he was tiny, like this. >> like this now. >> yes. he is a big boy. howard is upset because he saw meatball on a porch and thought meatball was outside. once he got caught in the grate. he did go next door and got caught in the grill. we never let him outside since then. he got caught in the neighbor's grill, and it was a thing. >> we don't have to get be into it here, sweetie. >> he thought meatball was outside again. he is not. no worries. >> speaking of howard -- >> never outside. >> i understand that billie eilish is extraordinary. all his interviews, i have to say, that guy, on so many levels, he's one of the -- you know, he's been around for so long. early on, he was painted into a certain corner. >> shock jock. >> shock jock. really just as good an interviewer as we have. just a funny guy. i think chris rock was asked who is the best comedian, and he goes, howard stern every day for three hours. how does he do it? extraordinarily gifted. >> he is the best interviewer. >> no, no, no, no. there is willie geist. >> come on. >> he is approaching geist numbers. >> i grew up listening in the car to howard stern all the time. my wife was an intern for howard stern. >> get out. >> more breaking news. >> she was on the e show. she got hypnotized. it was a whole thing. >> wow. >> celebrity back in college. >> she's an honorary wax figure. is that what you say? >> no, no, no. but i've been in the car a lot lately, driving my kids around and going up and back to the house, so i've really reconnected with him. yesterday, he had ben affleck on. it was one of the best interviews of any famous person i've ever heard in my life. there is an understanding by these people, when they walk in the door with howard and sit down, it's all fair game. >> oh dear. >> often, as an interviewer, i'm jealous that howard is allowed to ask the things he gets away with asking. he always elicited the best answers. music interviews, he had eddie vedder on. it was an old one. doesn't matter. can you pull down the guitar behind you and play this song? it brings a tear to your eye as the guy talks. he elicits things from people no one else in the media does. he has for a long time. he is the best interviewer. >> wow. >> that format, he's become a master of the long form interview. the hillary clinton is another. no better one he did after when she lost. >> other than willie's. >> willie's has now surpassed it, naturally. but he says, i have an unlimited amount of time, but he doesn't waste it. he uses it. 71 minutes. as long as it is an hour and 20 minutes. you never sit there and think any moment is wasted. he uses that space to really -- he's become a master of the form. i don't think anybody does long form interviews better than howard in any venue. >> peter baker is going to be doing an extraordinarily, well, personal, revealing interview with howard stern, we're sure, sometime soon. >> yeah. don't give it away. >> on the show. >> joe is a big music guy. i want to send you a tape of howard stern interviewing james brown in the studio. >> oh, my god. electric. >> you need to -- one of the rare times i saw james brown really get -- well, you need to watch the interview. to have james brown and howard stern in one interview, only god could make that -- >> only god could get you through that one. >> that's a lot. peter baker, thank you for being on. >> what are you working on other than your howard stern interview? >> if you listen to howard stern's interviews with donald trump, we're working on the book on donald trump, you learn everything you needed to know about what the presidency was going to be like. actually, you're right about howard. early on, he gave us what we needed to know. not everybody listened. >> peter baker, thank you. jonathan lemire, thank you. >> jonathan, what are you working on today? >> we'll be following the president. he is heading to kentucky, of course, to console those impacted by those terrible tornadoes. and we will, indeed, keep watching capitol hill for any progress on the build back better agenda. and if, indeed, we're starting to see talk with senator warnock yesterday, if there could be a shift to voting rights. >> you'll be back at 5:00 a.m. tomorrow for "way too early." >> you can tell he is excited about that too. >> we get to sleep in, 6:00 a.m. still ahead on "morning joe," the world health organization says the omicron variant is now spreading faster than any covid strain before it. we'll have the latest moves to keep americans safe. plus, the district of columbia files a lawsuit against two far-right groups for their roles in the january 6th attack on the capitol. we'll talk to the attorney general of d.c. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ biden: this is the challenge of our collective lifetime. and every day we delay, the cost of inaction increases. we have the ability to invest in ourselves and build an equitable, clean energy future, and in the process, create millions of good-paying jobs and opportunities around the world. there's no more time to hang back or sit on the fence or argue amongst ourselves. so let this be the moment that we answer history's call. superpowers from a spider bite? 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>> carpet capital of the world. we played canasta. grandma taught my brother, sister, and me to play canasta when we were 5, 6, 7. >> you probably never forgot and still play. >> what i wish i would have learned to play, because my parents did it, bridge. >> there's still time. >> my parents had the card tables. they loved bridge. >> yes. >> ike loved it. he loved, you know -- very strategic. am i boring you, with the pen tapping? >> i'm -- >> you live in the penthouse. i'm in a flophouse. willie has to deliver me tv dinners every night at 5:30. >> okay. >> slides it right under the door. look where she is living, on top. >> must be nice. >> all the satellite dishes. >> i'll ask you about three games. cribbage. batgammon. >> played a lot of that growing up. >> there's a lot of games to learn. you'll need to master all the board games. >> what about risk? do you play risk growing up? >> sure. >> sure. we actually just got a new risk. >> really? >> yeah, george geist, we're getting the board out. it's fun. >> violin in college. >> okay. we have -- >> i know this will shock you. >> -- attorney general on standby. >> why are you -- oh, i don't even like winning. they all turned on me. i'd get killed the beginning of every game. last three years. >> i wonder why they turned on you. >> it's no fun. >> one final note about dalton, georgia, and i'll say 2000 or 2001 i saw bob dylan in a carpet warehouse. >> no! >> in georgia. >> you did not. >> i was living in atlanta. couple thousand people in a carpet warehouse. bob dylan. >> was he playing? >> yes! it was his show. >> amazing. >> isn't that amazing? 20 years ago. >> in the same town in the 1996 presidential campaign, pat buchanan visited a carpet factory and gave away maybe he wasn't as populist as he seemed when he identified some of the carpets as being the ones he saw at the ritz-carlton recently. >> no. >> you're like, eh. >> that's good. >> that carpet is in the back of my mercedes. >> right? >> that he drove around washington, d.c. >> 100%. >> yeah. dalton is great. >> great town. >> i go there every summer. >> mm-hmm. >> at night, my brother and i would be in the basement and would be going to sleep, listening to the atlanta braves lose another baseball game. >> still loved it though. >> loved it. 104, 105 games they'd lose a year. still loved it. enough about dalton, georgia, and the atlanta braves. let's turn back to the district of columbia, suing far-right groups proud boys and the oathkeepers for their roles in planning and carrying out the january 6th attack on the capitol. complaint filed yesterday, d.c. attorney general says the groups conspired to overturn the results of the 2020 election in a, quote, coordinated act of domestic terrorism. joining us now is the attorney general for the district of columbia, mr. racine. thank you for joining us this morning. lay out a little of what you say in the lawsuit and what charges may be brought up here. >> sure. a lot of work went into the lawsuit. i want to thank my partners first. the anti-defamation league and states united, for helping us really put all the facts together. here's what we allege. we allege that the proud boys, oathkeepers, and over 30 individuals planned, organized, and participated in domestic terrorism capitol. that harm injured the district of columbia, injured district of colombia police officers who absolutely repelled the attack on the capitol. we're seeking restitution, financial penalties, and our goal is to put these folks out of business. >> elise jordan? >> who are the most prominent members of the proud boys who are party in this lawsuit, that are going to face the consequences? >> sure. elise, thanks for the question. you'll see that over 30 individuals are listed. i don't really want to identify one over the other. the simple fact is, in a conspiracy, all are liable are each other's acts. there is no doubt that there was planning and coordination. the camera does not blink. the video doesn't lie. these guys had ear pieces like i have, like you have in your ears. they're talking and communicating. thank you for putting that video up. that was a coordinated attack, and that's why we're suing. because as joe knows, basic in law, when you violate the law and commit a serious crime, prosecutors must hold you accountable. we have to do that in order to deter those who would do this again. you better believe they will do it again unless we stop them. >> john heilemann? >> you got to the question i wanted to ask about, which is, you know, a lawsuit like this is partly about accountability but also about deterrence. i want you to talk a little about that and whether you think that in the process of doing the investigative work you've done, you've identified networks that are still in place and that pose a threat to the future, and whether by taking this action you might have the effect of not just deterring those things in the future but potentially having some effect on breaking up some of the networks, or at least identifying them in a way that law enforcement will be able to keep an eye on them in the future. >> that is an exceptional question, and there is no doubt through civil process that we'll be able to get a lot of discovery, find out who is who and who knows who and who was funding who. there is reporting today, and i think it's from your outlet, that makes clear that both the proud boys and oathkeepers are moving on to other issues, including what? trying to influence school boards. they're playing the race game. they're playing the hate game. they're playing politics in order to try to divide americans away from what unites us. unfortunately, we live in a world where it's easy to divide. we had a president in chief who was the divider in chief. what this lawsuit seeks to do is put a lie to the reasons for division and to start bringing people back together. >> wow. >> attorney general, district of columbia, karl racine, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> we really appreciate it. >> thank you, joe. >> let's bring in cnbc founder, contributor, and editor at large at "news week," tom rodgers. his op-ed is entitled, "merrick gareth land must muster the bluster if we can't bust the filibuster." quite a rhyme. you write, in part, quote, the concerning issue isn't that the garland justice department appears to be remarkably passive in its pursuit of election fraud. if congress will not bust the filibuster rule in order to preserve the most important pillar of democracy -- free and fair elections -- then the justice department needs to muster some real bluster to instill some major fear of prosecution in any state official who believes they can manipulate election results with impunity. come january of 2025, we may have a second trump presidency orchestrated through fraudulent election manipulation, and his newly reconstituted justice department will surely not follow through with those prosecutions. boy, it'll go downhill from there. >> let's get specific. what can the justice department do, looking at the laws in the book? >> well, there are existing statutes today that give the federal government clear authority over any election where there are federal candidate on the ballot, to pursue anybody with jail time, sentences up to five years, including 18 usc-595, that makes it abundantly clear that the justice department can go after anybody trying to manipulate, trying to defraud, trying to deceive any result of a federal election. and so all the focus has been on this issue of whether the democrats are going to bust the filibuster. as you said, there just hasn't been the priority, attention on that issue that it deserves. i'm quite spectacl at the end of the day that they're going to do that. but the future of our democracy can't rest on whether the democrats bust the filibuster. the doj has the criminal capability to go after any of these local officials, secretaries of state, all the people being put in place that have created this apparatus of election theft that now exists for 2022 and 2024. >> what happens if the state legislature passes a bill that becomes law, that gives a state legislature in georgia, republican state legislature, the power to pick and choose what votes they count and what votes they throw out? >> the law takes place of the state law, and there is the ability to go after them. gene robinson was here saying the january 6th committee needs to be louder. the justice department needs to get louder. this is going on in full sight, in the open, this apparatus of election theft. not doing anything to create an apparatus at the justice department that makes clear they're going toepi encouraging >> won't the supreme court say, we defer to the state ledge shay legislature? the constitution defers to states, for the most part, on how they count votes and send their electors. >> it may, but that's not an answer to federal statutes on fraud, deception, manipulation of a federal election. i don't think creating state authority that says you have the right to reach in and do something is going to -- the supreme court is going to read that to say, and you get a free pass on every federal statute on criminal prosecution. >> this is kind of like trump. trump just did things out in the open. he just said things publicly which richard nixon or others would do privately. then investigators would find that and bring charges. if a state legislature is just saying publicly, we have the power to run over the local election officials, we have the power to roll over the secretary of state, we have the power to count whatever votes we want to count, doesn't that make this harder for the justice department? >> well, i think it creates a challenge for the justice department, and i think if they organize local u.s. authorities and fbi task forces in swing states, and made clear we're going for this. we're looking for and are going to prosecute it. in 2022, there is still going to be a biden justice department. they can follow through on the prosecutions. come 2024, they may have created meaningful disincentive for the worst practices that could result from these horrible state laws that have now been put into effect. that's really what i think the justice department has to do. this can't all rest on whether or not the democrats have the guts to bust the filibuster. >> tom, one line in particular i found to be very telling on this issue, but how it also describes politicly how the biden administration is approaching voting rights. the concerning issue is that the garland justice department appears to be remarkably passive in its pursuit of election fraud. talk about how they're being passive and how this, you know -- what kind of change is going to be needed if they're actually going to step up and be active. >> well, one glaring example is the secretary of state of georgia, raffensperger, being pushed, threatened by trump to find the 11,000 votes to win the election. >> how is that not a crime? i'm sorry. anybody at the table, does anybody at the table have an answer for me on how it is not a crime when you have a politician saying, "i need this number of votes." >> the president. >> it happens to be one more vote than he lost by. i need you to find this number of votes. how is that not a crime, mr. attorney general? >> it is a crime. the fact that this is being left solely to a local atlanta prosecutor to pursue, and it is not even clear there is a justice department investigation that has been opened up with all the material that has now come out from the january 6th committee -- >> bigger question, why isn't there. >> well, that's what i'm saying. >> john, why isn't there? >> that's why he's here. >> is there a fear by biden that he will seem to be politicizing the justice department, that they're just staying away from obvious crimes that took place? because, seriously, any republican watching this going, oh, what are you talking about, if a democrat, if barack obama had called a secretary of state and said, "i lost my 21,478 votes. find 21,479 votes, and reverse it," my god, there would be criminal charges the next week. >> as you know, the white house doesn't control the attorney general on these matters. whatever joe biden's views are not relevant. it's what merrick garland's views are on it. i think we've had a tradition in the pre-trump era. remember when barack obama came in, it was like, we should -- a lot of the left said we should bring up war crimes charges against george w. bush. you often see administrations come in in the supposedly non-idealogical, non-partisan world of doj. attorneys general will say, these are tendentious claims, i'm going to try to rise above those and be a neutral arbiter of the law. that's the tradition garland comes from. i think in this case, tom is arguing, what is true, the effort to seem non-political in a case like this actually fights the law in some ways, right? it's like, if we pursued an election fraud case against donald trump, it would be dismissed as politically motivated so i'll steer clear of that. even when, as you pointed out, joe, it is obviously a crime. just on the black letter reading of the law, there is no question it should be pursued. it's a question for merrick garland. it is not a -- i don't know the answer to it. i have a sense that's where merrick garland comes from. most of us are speculating because the man has not done very many public-facing because the man has not done many public facing interviews. >> you know, elise, i'm a huge believer in justice departments bending over backwards, not prosecuting former administrations. it sets up the most horrid of precedents. i just, i can't imagine anything more dangerous than us going down that pathway, and i said that after george w. bush left office. i said wait a second, if you prosecute him for that, what's the next administration, are you going to prosecute barack obama for drone strikes that killed civilians, it's never ending. in this specific case, bending over backwards too far actually does violence to the law. and to the fair and just interpretation of the law and the just execution of the law. >> this is about the commander in chief who was still in power trying to sway a free and fair election that he did not win in his favor. and the biden administration frankly, the tone has just been very passive, and i think that's what you nail in this, that that's extending to the merrick garland justice department and that they're like. >> exactly. this can't be just filibuster or bust. it must be we're out for election bust. garland is after texas on the gerrymandering issues which does show some optimism that the justice department will get involved, and on the congressional front, one positive note, 200 ceos meeting today, organized by jeffrey sonnenfeld with amy klobuchar to keep the pressure on the issue. >> on the filibuster, i get some states that the justice department's going to have to investigate for democratic legislatures that are filibustering as well. maybe they're not as good as republicans, but they're doing it. this is a completely separate issue. this is a oneoff, this is a president of the united states trying to steal an election. >> in a pretty flagrant way. >> in an obvious way. >> with mountains of evidence that have now come out that shows this was a completely premeditated plot and have all the evidence in the years for prosecution. >> tom rogers, we'll be reading the powerful new piece for "newsweek" and thanks for coming on today. a return to americans to the workplace, what the tech giant and other businesses are planning for their employees. >> can i ask you a question why is it that every restaurant in new york city is packed to the gills, every sporting event is packed to the gills, and every office space is empty, i don't understand this. i'm a simple dumb country lawyer. >> madison square garden packed to the gills. >> restaurants, i am told by the natives here you can't get reservations in restaurants. >> live music venues, packed to the gills. office space, oh, we can't return. that would be dangerous. >> there's a discussion to be had. >> it turns out a lot of employees want to work from home, but also go out to restaurants, music venues. >> which we understand. >> be back on set. >> nice to see you tom. also ahead, inflation concerns grow. as we head into the holidays, how americans are navigating rising costs during the busiest shopping season of the year, and as we go to break, a recreation of joe's formative years playing risk. >> what's this? 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♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ray loves vacations. but his diabetes never seemed to take one. everything felt like a 'no'. everything. but then ray went from no to know. with freestyle libre 2, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to. and... when he wants to. so ray... can be ray. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us according to the latest numbers, apple is set to become the world's first company with a market value of more than $3 trillion, and almost 2 trillion of that comes from chargers left in hotel rooms. >> also news from apple pertaining to the coronavirus, the company is reinstating its mask mandate in all u.s. retail stores. customers will be required to wear masks while shopping. last month apple began phasing out its mask requirement, and quickly brought it back for the omicron surge. >> is that even in florida. do they do that even in florida? >> they don't do nothing. >> it's the opposite rule, they require you to go up and breathe on people. >> hug. >> lick on the devices. >> florida has its own rules. >> make desantis smart again, if he went to yale and harvard, he has to be a smart guy. >> he must have fell and hit his head or something. >> he was pretty good. i heard, maybe beamed him in the head or something. >> he's got flags flying around, make florida america again. >> a lot of foul balls off the mask. >> i know, you get kind of punchy, don't you. >> limited patience for employees unwilling to get vaccinated. according to internal documents viewed by cnbc, the tech giant told employees they will lose pay and eventually be fired if they don't comply with the company's covid-19 vaccination policy. cnbc reports the document said employees who haven't complied with the vaccination rules by the january 18th deadline will be placed on paid administrative leave for 30 days. after that, the company will put them on unpaid personal leave for up to six months followed by termination. a spokesperson for google did not immediately respond to cnbc's request for comment. and the country's largest supermarket operator is set to eliminate covid-19 benefits for unvaccinated employees. kroger announced yesterday it will take away paid leave for unvaccinated employees who get covid-19 and require some of them to pay a monthly health insurance surcharge. >> this makes sense. >> a company spokesperson said starting next year, salaried, nonunion employees who were unvaccinated and enrolled in the company's health insurance plan must pay a monthly $50 surcharge. employees who are fully vaccinated are eligible for paid covid leave if they get a breakthrough. >> enough on the thing. >> companies are actually stepping up. >> by the way, willie, this is driven in the private sector. >> in the name of health. >> i know some people that are concerned about the mandates coming from the federal government to private businesses. okay. i understand that. but these are private businesses. they ought to be able to adopt their own mandates. >> and a lot of companies are saying now, we have given everyone time and space, it's been a long couple of years. we have given you time to get the vaccine, if that's something you want to do. we give you the option to give it. and google is saying six more months to think about whether or not you want to come back and work here, and frankly, some of the wall street firms in new york, are you going out to restaurants, then you can come into work. they have been a little more blunt about it. it's interesting to watch private companies getting more aggressive in telling their employees to come back. >> everywhere you go in the city, restaurants are completely packed, concerts completely packed. heilman was talking about going to an event in brooklyn, 20 night, everybody packed in watching, and everything's packed here except office space. it's a ghost town. >> which is why some employers are saying, hold on a second, if you can go to a restaurant you ought to be coming back to the office as well. now with omicron they're going to have to say it's not just the vaccine card, you're probably going to have to add the booster to the vaccine card. you were having a conversation about climate change, and it's private companies to step if to do the things governments are not doing. we have had a major health issue, a major issue for the country, and where do you need to look for innovation and ideas and action. it's private america. it's not the government. >> and the pentagon, which brings us to our next guest. >> also with us here at the table, pentagon press secretary retired rear admiral john kirby, great to see you. >> great to have you. we're talking about vaccine mandates, it's going pretty well, isn't it, at the pentagon? >> it is. across the active duty force, about 90% now are fully vaccinated and we have the reserves and guards in, we're about 75% fully vaccinated. it's working well. we mandated it, as you know, right after pfizer got fda approval, and we have seen the vast, vast majority of troops step up and do the right thing. >> so the mandate actually did move a lot of people toward getting the vaccine. >> it certainly increased our percentages of vaccinated troops in a significant way. >> this is part of the culture, which is why they never really understood. i've got a friend who's such a big trump supporter. he's got the trump flag flying 24 hours a day 7 days a week. i asked him about mandates for the military, what do you think about when they're coming in. they're the military. you follow orders, he goes, my god, how many vaccines did i get, which is so funny. it's a part of the culture, people acting shocked by a vaccine. how many vaccines do they have to get before they go overseas and fight in a war. >> between 12 and 20 depending on where you're going and what you need. when you go to boot camp, we vaccinate you for all manner of potential diseases. >> the 27 members of the air force were discharged for not getting the vaccine, the vaccine in the air force is 97%. if you don't get vaccinated will you be discharged. >> each service is going to handle it their own way. one result could be administrative discharge like the air force is doing. there has been talk about dishonorable discharge. you don't get there unless you go to court martial. we're talking about administrative discharge, which don't result in dishonorable discharge. also in 2021, this year alone, the air force has administratively separated 1,800 airmen for reasons not related to covid. this is not a big number, and it's not a significant chunk of the air force. >> what's the time line, you get a direct order, you're in the military, you get a direct order to get vaccinated. what's the time line, a month, two months, what is it? >> each service handled it differently. the navy, marine corps, air force, were in late november. the army's deadline is today. december 15th, all army personnel have to be vaccinated. we won't know what numbers look like for a couple of days. each service, when secretary austin mandated it, each gave the troops a couple of months or so active duty to get it. the reserves and guard, they're not with us every day, those deadlines are longer. for instance, for the army national guard, they've got until june of '22 to get vaccinated. >> we, a couple of days ago, had a great discussion with ian brzezinski, and david ignaious, to talk about the ussr from invading poland, how are our efforts from pushing vladimir putin back and stop him from moving into ukraine. >> truth is, we don't know that he has made a decision yet. as you know, decision space is probably the most valuable geography in the policy making circles. >> you're talking about putin has not ahead a decision we don't believe. >> we can influence the decision by our actions right now. >> we believe that we can, and that was a big reason president biden talked to president putin to make sure he understood what consequences could evolve should he make that decision, and again, he hasn't made that decision. we want to be mindful of the decision space that he's still in and making sure we can influence that in the right way. >> how do we do that? what's the most forceful thing president biden has proposed? >> without getting into the negotiating space between two presidents. >> we know publicly. >> we know they have talked about severe sanctions, severe economic measures, measures that haven't been taken before that could have been, and as jake sullivan said, you know, we're willing to make sure that if our nato allies, if there's need capabilities, need to be reassured, we're willing to do that too. >> the most severe of the consequences, the economic consequences that the president was talking about is booting russia out of swift out of the international finance system. what would it take, and that would be crippling for the u.s. economy, and crippling for the oligarchs and the people close to putin, crippling for russian business as well. it would be a drastic measure. they wouldn't be able to trade, to transfer currencies around the world. it would make it hard for them to do international financial banking. what would it take, a full scale invasion, a cyber attack? >> i don't want to get ahead of president biden and whatever decisions he might make. not a great answer. it's going to depend on what he does or doesn't do. you know, we talk about another , it could be deep into ukraine or not be. we tone know. importantly we don't think he's made the decision to do that. what we're trying to do is make clear to him what the consequences would be if he tried that, and it wouldn't just be the united states. it would be the international community. >> so putin, and ukraine, that's imminent. that could happen within the next two or three weeks, next month, depending on what you read and what spokes people say. iran is something different. it seems to be eternal, eternally dangerous to the health and safety of the mid east and united states. where are we regard to the danger with iran. >> the nuclear program, and no problem in the middle east gets easier to solve with a nuclear armed iran. the negotiations continue. those talks are difficult right now. so we don't know where that's going to go. for the department of defense, aside from their nuclear ambitions, they are already a malign actor in the region. they are developing a sophisticated missile program. they are supporting terrorist groups in iraq and syria, and elsewhere in the region, and continue to pose a threat to maritime traffic, the free flow of maritime traffic in and out of the gulf region. we were out in bahrain meeting with allies and partners they are significantly concerned about where iran is going. we have to make sure that separate and distinction from the negotiations that we want to succeed that we've got the capabilities, the resources in the region to deal with the kinds of threats that iran is posing now. >> how sophisticated are they with armed drones. >> this has been an interesting development over the last several years. you know, they had been supporting these groups in iraq and syria for quite some time. these iranian backed militia groups that were harassing u.s. troops and facilities as well as our iraqi partners. we have seen them increase the use of uavs, drones, to conduct these attacks, and they are getting increasingly precise and increasingly illegal. >> let me hop over to afghanistan. late august, 13 american troops were killed, 18 were wounded. a couple of days later in a retribution, that general milley called a righteous attack, a group of civilians were killed. we were told it was an attack on isis, it was not. the pentagon announced no punishment of any kind. what we saw was a break down in process, execution, procedural events, not the result of negligence, not the result of misconduct, civilians killed by an american drone, how can no one be held accountable for that. >> i understand there's concerns about this decision. the investigation was independent that we did into the strike, done by the air force ig who had the authority to conduct another investigation into the conduct. he didn't find that. then the two commanders involved, central command, special operations command down in tampa. they also reviewed the investigation and strike itself and determined that these were really procedural problems. nobody wants to see civilian harm, and we work very hard to avoid that, but we're not perfect, and i think it's important to keep in context what was happening on the 29th of august. we had just lost, as you said, 13 members, to a real isis threat. a real isis attack, and just a few days after that we were going to leave afghanistan forever, and we were getting tangible, credible threats from isis to attack our troops at the airport as well as in afghanistan. there was a crunch of time, there were procedural break downs. not everything went the way it was supposed to go, and we have acknowledged that quite publicly. just because the procedures broke down doesn't mean that there was misconduct or a reason to hold one person in particular or some people in particular responsible for that. >> where did the bad intel come from? >> it wasn't bad intelligence, joe, it was the way the intelligence was processed in the moment. they were following this car which they believed and had intelligence to believe was involved in a strike against the airport, and following over the course of eight hours, and that intelligence was not bad. it was just the way it was assessed and acted upon. >> how does it strike you that no one is held accountable. i know how it strikes people around the world, you can get away with murder, and nobody is punished it. >> we appreciate that not everybody is going to support this decision. what i can tell you is we looked at this thing very comprehensively, and we acknowledged there were procedural break downs, processes were not executed the way they should have been. it doesn't necessarily indicate an individual or individuals have to be held to account for that. >> is there discipline inside the pentagon at all? maybe there are no charges brought up but is anyone demoted or disciplined for what happened that day? >> there's not going to be individual discipline as a result of that, but what we are going to do is learn from this and enact and improve our procedures and processes to try to make sure this doesn't happen again: we're working hard with mr. amani's employer, nei, the individual who was tracked in air and killed as well as some of his family members. we're working with them to get their family members out of afghanistan, and to get an exgratia payment made to them in a safe and responsible way. we know we're responsible for this, and we're trying to make up for that as best we can. >> the inbox, this administration is extraordinarily dangerous, you look at what's happening in ukraine, iran, but china. obviously a grave threat, taiwan has been the ally whose name we don't mention for the past 30, 40 years. we're finally doing that. what happens? how do we stop china from invading taiwan. >> nobody wants to see that be the outcome, joe. nothing has changed about our one china policy of course, and we have in the department of defense, secretary austin has made it clear that china is our pacing challenge, and we have done a lot of work in the last year to try to address that challenge. >> what message are we sending to china about them staying out of taiwan? >> we have been very clear that we don't want to see a change to the status quo in a unilateral way. we don't want to see this come to blows. and there's no reason for it to become that way. >> what are the consequences for china if they don't listen. >> we have to address the larger challenge of china throughout the region, and coercive aggressive behavior against their neighbors. we stood up a task force, new operational consequences. the budget may get passage here soon, and the senate is supposed to vote on it told. there's a lot of money invest instead there, $112 billion on research and development, the largest request by the pentagon to do that. a lot of that money will be used to help us deal with the china challenge. >> admiral, january 6th is an epic day in american history. we were talking about it today, we'll talk about it every day because of the ramifications of what happened on january 6th. in the united states military, there's an assumption that there are members of outfits like the proud boys, oath keepers, who are members of the united states military. what is the level of concern within the defense department about recruits into the various branches of the military being -- belonging to right wing white nationalist groups. >> i might turn the question around a little bit. the assumption actually in the pentagon is the vast majority of people are living by the oath that they took, and serving with honor and dignity, and character and upholding all the ideals of the military service. there's no question about that. you're right, mike, there are a small number, and that we know of that espouse extremist ideology, and are willing to act on those thoughts, and that ideology. and even a small number can have an outsized impact. we're talking about unit cohesion. anybody around the military knows unit cohesion, readiness, team work, that's where we succeed or fail. if you have even a small number acting in ways that are antithetical to ideals, things we're trying to achieve, the oath we take to the constitution, that can be corrosive, we're working on this really hard. i think relatively soon, we'll talk about updates to the dod, about extremist activity and the kind of prohibited activity that is go along with that, and how we're going to deal with that. it's antithetical to who we are, and that can act on the ideology that would be corrosive to cohesion. >> a broader problem the u.s. faces around the world in terms of cooperation with its allies at the moment. the country can't be trusted, not in terms of upholding its democracy, not in terms of an election that may or may not deliver president trump next time around and policies like iran which you jump back into could be pulled into negotiations. pull out again, whether it's climate change. when you're talking to america's counter parts, and trying to do urgent things on ukraine, for example, where there's disagreement amongst european allies about what to do about russia, how do you convince them america is a country worth taking a bet on, and that you're going to be there for the long-term. >> to some degree, you kind of answered the question in your question, we're actually talking to them. we're investing in the alliances. >> you're talking about the next administration might not. >> i can't obviously predict what's going to happen. >> it's what they're thinking. >> what we're trying to do is invest in these alliances and partnerships. the first trip secretary austin took was to japan, and south korea. we have been to that part of the world three times. the first phone call was to the nato secretary general. we're investing in the alliances and partnerships. we're making it clear we're not just telling them what to do. we're consulting, including them in the decision making process. >> that's not true. >> there's a lot of european allies, we were not given a heads up in time, enough time to prepare for the withdrawal. >> there were consultations with nato allies. not everybody said they felt they didn't get the touches that they thought they should, but there was consultations with nato allies. >> the uae is backing out of a weapons deal with the united states, what can you tell us about that? >> they have informed us that they have concerns about going forward with that particular weapons sale, which does include f 35s, as well as some drones. we believe there's still room for discussion here. as a matter of fact, there's a delegation from uae at the pentagon today and tomorrow, an annual discussion, and i think this will be part of it. we still think there's room to talk about this. >> the concern is that they could transfer some of this technology to china who they have a good relationship with, right? >> i would tell you, joe, without getting into the specifics, we have end user requirements for everything we sell to allies and partners. that's typical. and that would be no different in in arms sale than any other. there are things that we expect them to do with the stuff they're buying and not do with that stuff, and so we're willing to have discussions with emirates. >> your requirements for this still are your requirements for any deal? >> and they're nonnegotiable. when the sale is orchestrated and built, those are built in, and they're nonnegotiable. so again, we have questions too about the sale, and we want to have a frank and candid discussion with the emirates. >> they shouldn't be negotiable. >> you can literally ask him anything. pentagon press secretary john kirby, thank you very much for coming on this morning, hope you come back. >> thank you, i will. >> really nice to see you. >> still ahead on "morning joe," president biden is set to visit kentucky today in the wake of those deadly tornadoes. we'll hear from some of the survivors and from a doctor who treated the injured. plus, is an indictment on the way for mark meadows? we'll have the latest after the house voted to hold him in contempt for failing to meet with the january 6th committee. and the far right group, the proud boys tries to expand by taking on local issues. now showing up at school board and city council meetings. we'll have that new reporting. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ real cowboys get customized car insurance with liberty mutual, so we only pay for what we need. -hey tex, -wooo. can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ with age comes more... get more with neutrogena® retinol pro plus. a powerful .05% retinol that's also gentle on skin. for wrinkles results in one week. neutrogena®. for people with skin. biden: this is the challenge for wrinkles results in one week. of our collective lifetime. and every day we delay, the cost of inaction increases. we have the ability to invest in ourselves and build an equitable, clean energy future, and in the process, create millions of good-paying jobs and opportunities around the world. there's no more time to hang back or sit on the fence or argue amongst ourselves. so let this be the moment that we answer history's call. ♪3, 4♪ ♪ ♪hey♪ ♪ ♪are you ready for me♪ ♪are you ready♪ ♪are you ready♪ hey, angie! you forgot your phone! hey lou! angie forget her phone again? yep. lou! mom said she could save up to $400 on her wireless bill by switching to xfinity internet and mobile. with nationwide 5g at no extra cost. and lou! on the most reliable network, lou! smart kid, bill. oh oh so true. and now, the moon christmas special. gotta go! take the savings challenge at xfinitymobile.com/mysavings or visit an xfinity store to learn how our switch squad makes switching fast and easy this holiday season. welcome back. president biden travels to kentucky today where rescue and recovery operations are still underway following that massive tornado outbreak. at this hour, more than 100 people are still unaccounted for. nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez reports from hard hit mayfield. >> this morning, across kentucky, a massive outpouring of support after immeasurable loss. >> everything else you can replace, but family you cannot. >> more than 100 people in the state are still unaccounted for amid the devastation, michael of dawson springs is grateful. his 8-year-old son can still meet santa. >> it's hard for us. everything we had in the house is gone. >> reporter: but in kentucky alone, at least a dozen of the 74 people killed are children. in missouri, 9-year-old aniston and her two sisters took shelter in a bathtub. 15 minutes after her parents posted this photo, she died in the tornado that ripped through her home. >> he was a wonderful, wonderful little girl. and i'm going to miss her so much. >> reporter: here in mayfield, kentucky's governor says state authorities will investigate what happened inside the town's candle factory where 8 people were killed and more than 100 were working when the tornado hit. >> it hurts so bad, and there's nothing that i can do. >> reporter: the memory of a lost coworker still haunts mikaela emery. she spent six hours trapped under a concrete slab. did you think you were going to make it out alive? >> i honestly did not think they were going to find me. >> reporter: she told us what she heard after the first tornado warning came through. >> he said if leave you may lose your jobs. >> reporter: a spokesperson says claims that employees weren't allowed to leave are absolutely untrue. some of those factory workers were brought to dr. scott wilson and his e.r. team who scrambled to treat 85 patients in 12 hours. >> all of them had trauma to some degree, most had either been crushed by some sort of object. >> that was nbc news national correspondent gabe gutierrez reporting. still ahead, when it comes to covid, there is little doubt we're in the middle of another wave. the big question this morning, how bad will it get. we've got new reporting on that front, next on "morning joe." g front, next on "morning joe. ♪ baby got back by sir mix-a-lot ♪ unlimited cashback match... only from discover. i thought i was managing my moderate to severe crohn's disease. then i realized something was missing... ...me. my symptoms were keeping me from being there for her. so, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is the #1 prescribed biologic for people with crohn's disease. humira helps people achieve remission that can last. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. learn how abbvie could help you save on humira. derriere discomfort. we try to soothe it with this. cool it with this. and relieve it with this. but new preparation h soothing relief spray is the 21st century way to do all three. even touch free. preparation h. get comfortable with it. - san francisco can have criminal justice reform and public safety. but district attorney chesa boudin is failing on both. - the safety of san francisco is dependent upon chesa being recalled as soon as possible. - i didn't support the newsom recall but this is different. - chesa takes a very radical perspective and approach to criminal justice reform, which is having a negative impact on communities of color. - i never in a million years thought that my son, let alone any six-year-old, would be gunned down in the streets of san francisco and not get any justice. - chesa's failure has resulted in increase in crime against asian americans. - the da's office is in complete turmoil at this point. - for chesa boudin to intervene in so many cases is both bad management and dangerous for the city of san francisco. - we are for criminal justice reform. chesa's not it. recall chesa boudin now. welcome back to "morning joe," there is an urgent warning this morning about the omicron variant of covid-19 as the world health organization sounds the alarm across the globe. nbc news correspondent sam brock reports. >> reporter: as we brace for another winter bout with covid, soaring cases from the uk to africa have the world health organization warning people not to be fooled by omicron's milder profile. >> we are seeing what we have never seen before in an outbreak with this omicron. >> reporter: in the u.s., top cdc officials have modeled two scenarios, a massive wave of infections slamming communities as early as january or a smaller surge of omicron arriving in the spring. cdc director dr. rochelle walensky spoke with savannah and hoda tuesday. >> is it more transmissible is that the deal? >> it is more transmissible, and we're seeing that in other countries. it's rapidly become the dominant strain. >> is it five times, two times. >> it's still early. what we are seeing in other countries is doubling times of every two days or so. >> reporter: the national picture is increasingly troubling with around 40 states looking at double digit increases in covid infectionst. in omaha, nebraska, hospitalizations are skyrocketing, and health care workers are tapping into their reserves. >> we just hope that no one else has to experience the things that we've been experiencing, especially lately. >> reporter: cornell university going virtual in the middle of finals, reporting over 900 new covid cases including a very high percentage of the omicron variant in fully vaccinated people. in the nfl, wide receiver odell beckham jr. who just played in a big monday night football game, one of nine l.a. rams to land on the covid list 24 hours later, coach sean mcvay bewildered. >> this has definitely been the most uniquely challenging situation we've dealt with covid. >> our thanks to nbc news correspondent sam brock for that report. coming up, prices are soaring thanks to the highest inflation in a generation. so how are americans making ends meet this holiday season? 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your money isn't stretching as far. >> the typical american is now spending a couple hundred dollars more a month than they were a year ago. >> last month, consumer prices rose almost 7%, the highest annual jump in nearly 40 years. gas prices have soared over the last year. and grocery essentials from meat to fruits and vegetables are higher too. for example, now one pound of lean ground beef costs $5.77, up 1.20 from last year, teacher jen casano says budgeting for her family of four is more difficult. >> my husband is working two to three jobs, i'm working full-time, and it just seems that we're not able to really breathe right now. >> and she is not alone. 45% of american households say recent price hikes are causing financial hardship and lower income families are feeling it the most. for many businesses, inflation means supplies cost more, and in some cases, they're forced to charge their customers more or lay off workers. more than 70% of small business owners say rising prices have had a significant impact on their business in the past year. all of it causing more stress this holiday season. already slowed down by supply chain constraints and consumer demand. >> we're trying to keep our heads above water. >> that was nbc news correspondent jo ling kent reporting. a disturbing thought for parents and educators around the country, the proud boys are regrouping and setting their sights on school boards and town councils. we're joined by "the new york times" reporter next on that story, next on "morning joe." tht story, next on "morning joe. ray loves vacations. but his diabetes never seemed to take one. everything felt like a 'no'. everything. but then ray went from no to know. with freestyle libre 2, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to. and... when he wants to. so ray... can be ray. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us ♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom ♪ ♪ for me and you ♪ ♪ and i think to myself ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ a rich life is about more than just money. that's why at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner so you can build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. ♪ it wasn't me by shaggy ♪ vanguard. you're never responsible for unauthorized purchases on your discover card. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ biden: this is the challenge of our collective lifetime. and every day we delay, the cost of inaction increases. we have the ability to invest in ourselves and build an equitable, clean energy future, and in the process, create millions of good-paying jobs and opportunities around the world. there's no more time to hang back or sit on the fence or argue amongst ourselves. so let this be the moment that we answer history's call. ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? 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(gasps) ♪ did it work? only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ spider-man no way home in theaters december 17th were you personally in contact with mark meadows that day and other white house officials to urge trump to do more? >> i was not, but i do think we're all watching as you are what is unfolding on the house side. and it will be interesting to reveal all of the participants who were involved. >> i love this quote, it will be interesting to reveal all who were involved, and again, mitch, for whatever -- whatever people don't like mitch for, you pick it, it's fine, but on this issue on january the 6th, you talked to the most progressive people there that were in the bunker with him, that saw what was going on, and they all said the same thing, that even some democratic leaders said let's just go home, and mitch mcconnell basically said, over my dead body, we're going to go back up. we're going to vote. we're going to get this done. we're not going to let them stop us from doing our constitutional duty. so when he says it will be really interesting to see who was involved, you know. >> you don't hear the leader weigh in on house matters very often, but he made a point of weighing in on that. also liz cheney as she read those texts yesterday, she looked up from her notes and said many of these were sent by people in this chamber, looked around the room, made gestures to people. we'll find out eventually who the texts were from. >> we talked about this off camera, why aren't they revealing the names of the members that we're talking about sabotaging american democracy, and undermining free and fair elections? >> it's a good question. maybe they'll come out in time. maybe there's a privacy question. >> adam schiff seemed to be hinting in the next week or two we'll have those names. >> those comments came on the day former president trump's chief of staff mark meadows was referred to the justice department for a possible prosecution. after the house voted to hold him in contempt of congress. nbc senior congressional correspondent garrett haake has the latest. >> reporter: this morning the house is ramping up the pressure on former president trump and his allies over january 6th after voting to hold former trump chief of staff mark meadows in contempt of congress referring him to the justice department for possible prosecution for refusing to testify before the committee investigating the insurrection. >> if you're making excuses to avoid cooperating with our investigation, you're making excuses to hide the truth from the american people. >> reporter: republicans argue that contempt vote amounts to intimidation and harassment by democrats. >> i hope the american people are paying close attention. i hope they see what happens when democrats get total power. they abuse it. >> reporter: but the committee's top republican, liz cheney says meadows' testimony is necessary to help the committee determine what she calls a fundamental question, whether former president trump may have committed what could amount to a crime on january 6th. >> and that is when donald j. trump through action or inaction corruptly sought to obstruct or impede congress's official proceeding to count electoral votes. >> reporter: the investigation has been explosive, revealing that on january 6th, figures across the political world including trump's own son and fox news host laura ingraham and sean hannity sent texts to meadows pleading for trump to intervene. a day after the revelations, hannity and ingramham attacking the committee last night. >> we believe in privacy in this country, apparently not. >> reporter: meadows has turned over texts from unnamed republican lawmakers. >> some of those text messages, madame speaker, came from members in the chamber right now. potus has to come out firmly and tell the protesters to dissipate. someone is going to get killed. >> i think it's really cute, willie and mike to have republican members talk about an investigation that's trying to get to the bottom of an attempt overthrow a democratic election, to call that an abuse of power when you have people who are literally -- and you got it on text messages -- trying to undermine american democracy and doing everything they can do to stop from this transparent process moving forward. >> yeah, it was a feeble attempt by some people to claim privacy, that the core issue here is privacy. it was an investigation and documents are subpoenaed and it was mark meadows who surrendered and handed over those documents. >> as you peel the onion of this story, liz cheney got to and said there were members who were participating in this. the text message was basically let's destroy our democracy, let's ignore the will of the people. >> let's talk about liz cheney, head down focused on getting to the truth, and has gotten the respect and admiration of, well, actually, everybody who gives a damn about fair and free elections and a peaceful transfer of power. >> it was interesting listening to congressman swalwell. they chose her very deliberately to be the person who read out those texts, the explosives texts about who had been sending what messages to mark meadows. she was doing this while she was under an enormous amount of pressure and threats to herself personally from people who are still supporters of president trump, former president trump. i can't imagine the amount of incoming, we know what it's like if you get on the wrong side of trump. imagine what it's like for her on the wrong side of trump. i can't imagine that's an easy place for her to be, and yet, there she is in the chamber in all of those hearings, focused, calm, and sure of what she's doing. >> and when she's not on camera, according to every profile i've seen, she's the one working around the clock, again, head down working just trying to get the truth out. just trying to get the facts out and the fact that people are freaking out about text messages being read or emails being read. >> they're freaking out about being called out. meanwhile, the district of columbia is suing far right groups proud boys and oath keepers for their roles in planning and carrying out the january 6th attack on the capitol. d.c. attorney general carl racine was our guest last hour telling us the groups conspired to overturn the results of the 2020 election in a, quote, coordinated act of domestic terrorism. one of those groups, the proud boys, is trying to make a comeback nationally by going local. "the "new york times"" reported yesterday that members have appeared in recent months at town council gatherings and health department question-and-answer sessions as part of a strategy shift toward a larger goal to bring their brand of menacing politics to a local level. joining us now "new york times" reporter sheila frank el, co-author of the book "an ugly truth." it's good to have you on the show. if you could tell us more about these efforts across the country to go local on the part of groups like oath keepers. >> this has been a trend that started after january 6th. the group went quiet after a lot of its national leaders were arrested. what they did is go back to their cities and towns, the states they lived in all over the united states and decided to restrengthen around their local chapters. this was a deliberate move knowing that while the national press was paying a lot of attention to them they could make an impact locally in school board meetings, and fly under the radar of the national press and really probably of law enforcement nationally. >> so sheera, what are they doing exactly? the proud boys show up at school board meetings. are they concerned parents or are they something else? >> i've not heard of any cases of them being concerned parents. all of the cases i've heard of are them comes out of the city, at times out of state to go to school board meetings where things like mask mandates are being debated. they show up sometimes five or six of them, sometimes over a dozen, and their goal in this is really to try and, i think, recruit locally if you are an anti-mask parent and the proud boys come and they start clapping and cheering when you give an anti-mask speech at your school board meeting, you might be inclined to go talk to them. they're trying to recruit locally, and they're trying to make their position known on a very local level where they think they can have an impact. >> what do we know about the group since january 6th in terms of numbers of people who adhere to it, the amount of money that they may have raised, the amount of events that they have organized. what's going to happen to the size and scope of the group over the last year? >> that's an excellent question. i think that especially going into the midterms where groups like the proud boys want to have a political impact, it's important to be asking what are their membership roles? how much money do they have? we don't know that because they don't make it public. what we do know is the number of incidents, the number of events and protests they're appearing at and their numbers at those events seem to be going up. even though we're not seeing these paragraphs of hundreds of proud boys appearing at national rallies, we do know that on a local level they are increasing in numbers, and their online groups on telegram are also increasing. they used to have one main group of 31,000 people. now we're finding local cities that have alone 300, 400 members, and there are hundreds of these kind of smaller local groups. so certainly we're seeing their numbers increase, though we can't give you exact figures of how many people count themselves as part of the proud boys. >> there's been increased reporting about the threat posed to various school boards around the country by groups like proud boys and other angry parents, actually, who might join proud boys. there has been less amount of reporting on a really striking example of what's happening here, the number of teachers who are resigned to quitting their profession because of the threats posed to them in classrooms. >> it's a concern. i think that these school boards are very concerned that as the proud boys show up at these types of meetings they will intimidate not just other parents but also teachers potentially. i mean, there is a reason they go to school board meetings. there is a reason they have coalesced around this issue of whether or not people and students specifically should wear masks. it's because it's contentious. people, parents have strong opinions on this and they know that it's a good gateway into their broader movement. if they can draw people in on this idea that wearing a mask could not be required of students, if they can intimidate parents or teachers on this one issue, they can lead people into their broader movement and perhaps some of the more extreme politics. this is a group that a number of other organizations and academics believe hold white supremacist values, white nationalist values, they have openly taken quite racist positions against jews, muslims, a number of ethnic groups. this is a group that holds fairly extreme positions but when they present publicly they talk about masks. >> thank you so much for your reporting. we'll be following this and hope to have you back on again soon. thank you so much. let's talk about what we learned today, willie, what did you learn? >> final thoughts? steph curry is the greatest shooter alive, howard stern is the greatest interviewer alive, and dalton, georgia, is the -- >> bob dylan may 2nd, at a carpet warehouse in dalton, georgia, eight song encore. >> that's great. >> mike what did you learn today? >> i learned earlier when we were talking about the beatles documentary, the relationship between john and paul mccartney in that documentary is fascinating. it's like a younger brother paul mccartney trying to woo the older brother back into the house. >> right. >> it's really fascinating. >> and you know he's connected. that's the thing that again, i've read every book you could read, every interview with the beatles over the past 30 years, it's sad really mika thinks and it's surprising to people that even the beatles were shocked about how much fun they had. >> all along the watchtower much underrated dylan song from my hippie days. john kirby can take anything you throw at him. >> kirby's the best. >> which is good because the administration has a lot on his plate around the world. >> yeah, he's really good at filtering a lot of information and bringing it together in a way that's cohesive and understandable. >> what do you have going today? >> i have a big day today. later today we're going to be celebrating the inaugural list, the women of the forbes inaugural 50 over 50 list. we'll be making a major announcement. that's the know your value and forbes partnership today, and we'll be sitting down with first lady jill biden for a special conversation about mentoring. you'll see that interview tomorrow right here on "morning joe." >> also, mika, the first episode of your limited series podcast "mika straight up" launches tomorrow, and you can listen wherever you get your podcast. i have a prediction here. this is going to be bigger than the beatles on ed sullivan in '64. >> i like it. it's a lot of straight talk. >> i think it's going to be bigger, willie, than even the news that went around the world when the hindenberg crashed. it's going to be that big. >> wow, wow, that's embarrassing. good luck. >> much more right here tomorrow. >> this is why she never lets me in. >> that's it for us this morning, stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. ♪♪ hey there, i'm stephanie ruhle live at msnbc headquarters here in new york city. it is wednesday, december 15th, and we've got all the facts you need to know at this hour. so join me. let's get smarter. any minute now the president will depart for the state of kentucky where he is set to witness firsthand the widespread devastation caused by the tornados over the weekend. this morning there are are still dozens who are unaccounted for as communities pick up the pieces. also happening today, unless congress acts, the last of those child tax credit payments are set to hit

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