Transcripts For MSNBC American Voices With Alicia Menendez 2

Transcripts For MSNBC American Voices With Alicia Menendez 20240709



- we are for criminal justice reform. chesa's not it. recall chesa boudin now. supreme court ruling friday texas abortion providers can move forward with challenges against the law, but the law itself remains on the books as changes move through the legal system. if someone in texas needs a safe and legal abortion, they will have to cross state lines. previewing what a post-roe looks like. a law specifically aimed at unraveling roe. the court set to issue its decision next summer. if roe goes, 26 states are certain or likely to ban abortions, too. this map showing what it will look like when the power over abortion access is put in the hands of each state. something massachusetts congressman pressley warned of today on msnbc. >> these courts have proven time and time again they are not on the side of the people. this is settled law. a majority of americans do not want to see roe v. wade overturned. abortion care is health care. when we have these bans, it doesn't mean people stop having abortions. it just means they stop doing it safely and legally. this is quite literally a matter of life and death. >> they argue they are fighting for the sanctiontity of life. so that's the case, why do these same gop leaders oppose nearly every measure designed to help americans thrive, especially for children and families of low income. they oppose biden's building back better plan which provides four weeks of paid family leave, universal pre-k, lowers the cost of child care. vice president kamala harris touted that coverage this week at the first ever white house day of action on maternal health. >> maternal mortality and morbidity is a serious crisis. and one that endangered both public health and economic growth. which means everyone is impacted by it. we know that when we invest in women's health, when we invest in maternal health, economic productivity increases and socioeconomic improve. >> joining us now professor of law at the university of california irvine and new york magazine senior correspondent. michelle, i want to start with the gop's lack of investment in policies that actually improve the lives of family. an article frames it this way, quote, a remotely humane pro-life movement wouldn't demand that kids be born into economic misery. instead, they back policies that support parents and their children once they're out of the womb. in other words, i might support something like biden's agenda. these are all policies that would make it easier to help single moms raise children and could theoretically make a post-roe world less nightmarish for families. but they run afoul to social spending by the government and thus face across the board opposition from conservatives. may shell, what are the consequences of banning abortions but then doing something to support or address measures to actually help children and families? >> first, thank you for having me on your show this evening. i think vice president kamala harris put it quite well. united states leads the developed world and beyond that in terms of maternal mortality. and the most glaring rates of maternal death take place in the states with the most abortion bans, the most targeted regulations against abortion providers. otherwise known as trap laws. and though it seems that people have been shy about naming it for what it really is, many of these consequences are life and death. so even if we weren't talking about abortion bans, a person is 14 times more likely to die by carrying a pregnancy to term than by having an abortion. abortions are very safe, one of the safest procedures a person can be. so when these restrictions are papers over again and again, what we see are the increased risks to maternal health and safety and we don't see these states enacting legislation or with doing -- proceeding in procedural ways that would help to enhance maternal safety. as well, it's worth noting that infant mortality is glaring and alarming in those states. let me give you this one statistics that comes from the central intelligence agency. they note it on their website, so this isn't just professor goodwin. this is a cia which notes the united states ranked below 50th in the world in terms of maternal health and safety. we have to keep that figure in mind because then it's not just being behind england, germany, france, italy, et cetera. it means being behind bosnia and saudi arabia in terms of keeping people alive during that pregnancy. and it's even more glaring in states like texas, louisiana and mississippi. and we'll talk about race, too. >> yeah, glaring indeed. if the supreme court overturns or limits roe next summer, i know you have strong opinions on whether or not they will. dozens of republican-led states will move forward with abortion bans. what tactics should we expect from this republican party if we don't have federal guard rails protecting abortion access? >> well, they have been laying the ground work for a long time. i just want to underscore the point that professor goodwin made because in states like texas it is not a coincidence these rates are so high. they kick people off medicaid 60 days after giving birth. you need that postpartum support, that medical support. that's when we lose people. and so instead of doing something like expanding tenure of postpartum care for medicaid, legislature is going to texas, louisiana, mississippi, alabama have been laying the ground work for what to do when the supreme court does wipe away these guard rails. the supreme court has already let them do that. we don't have to imagine. as you mentioned in your intro, since september 1st, more than 100 days, abortion has been basically illegal for most people in texas unless you can afford to leave the state or take matters into your own hands, which leaves you legally vulnerable to prosecution. so we actually don't even have to wait for it to happen. we can look at what's happening in texas. the other effects that will happen if in the texas case, you know, they have given them almost no opportunity for belief, these abortion providers to reopen their door, even if they only get a couple of months to reopen to a greater extent than a very limited capacity that they have right now, you are looking towards that decision in june that you mentioned out of mississippi, which will empower many of the states around texas. many of them already have legislation that's more straightforward than what they did in texas. doesn't involve this kind of bounty hunter provision. just straightforward as we're banning abortion at whatever time. some states set up cascading bans. they're set up for the supreme court. every two weeks they ban abortion. and these laws will be triggered into effect the moment that the supreme court gives them the green light. so in texas it is already happening but should you live in a state like texas, you will have fewer places to travel because a large swath of the country in that map you showed you will have to travel ever further because the midwest and the southeast will all close their doors to people seeking abortions. >> you have to get on the plane. as you and i have talked about many times, there are people that just can't take that much time off of work in order to make that type of track, much less have the resources to take the flight. which of course, professor goodwin, you said you wanted to talk about race, so i want to loop back to that. but within the context of maternal health outcomes and who these abortion bans will affect. >> let's be clear that these bans harm the most vulnerable of people in our society, and those who have both risked their health in terms of being coerced or forced to carry pregnancies to term that they have not wanted have been black and brown, including in the state of texas and in mississippi where there is only one abortion clinic that remains. the majority of their patients happen to be black women. it is very clear that in-laws such as this that we have seen in texas, sba, the mississippi law that these are laws that have a discriminatory impact against black women. it's a disparate impact against them. and we have to speak to this. those persons who have -- who can afford to, will leave the state just as we have seen with texas with people leaving, going to california and elsewhere and, sure, there have been abortion funds that helped to underwrite that sum for people who are of the most strike thatfied means, those who are the worst off. but let's be clear. in mississippi where the death rates are already high for black women, we're coerced to carry pregnancies to term when they have limited access to care, they will be most affected. it is those people whose health will be most affected. and sadly, this is a pattern in states like texas, mississippi and alabama. and it's our failure if we don't connect the dots. we cannot talk about this without also including america's history of worst slavery. we see a continued effect of gutting, erasing, ignores any kind of human right, let alone constitutional right or civil liberty of black women to control their own reproductive health care. we saw that in the 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, but that it was done with the 13th amendment abolishing slavery. but here we are, back to states that say we can coerce black women, force them to carry to term pregnancies that they may not want and, in fact, risk their life if they do so. >> professor goodwin, i have to tell you, i am aware of your work through reporting so i'm so happy i was able to have the two of you on together tonight. thank you both so much. next, democracy under threat here and abroad. the international challenge facing the biden administration. and during trial, one of ghislaine maxwell's attorneys named accusers who should remain anonymous. the danger that does for any survivor speaking their truths ahead. the latest on the tornado outbreak across several states. steven romo tracking developments for us. >> thanks. and getting caught up on that breaking news tonight, authorities still searching for survivors after a series of deadly tornados ripped through states overnight. arkansas, missouri, mississippi, tennessee, illinois and kentucky. and one case in kentucky where it's feared the death toll could surpass 100, the governor says they believed the tornado touched down and carved a 250 mile path across the united states which if true would be a record breaking twister. president biden addressing those affected by the storms a short time ago. >> i mean, it's profound. it's just profound. and it's -- but i promise you, whatever is needed, whatever is needed the federal government is going to find a way to supply it. >> we turn to mayfield, kentucky where we find wendy. where are you and what's the latest there? >> reporter: steven, good evening to you. the waiting is really weighing on people now that the temperatures are dropping and darkness has fallen, making the situation gone from bad to even worse. no new numbers to report at this point. 40 people were rescued from what's left of the candle factory behind us. the governor saying it will have to be a miracle to find anyone else alive in this rubble. but the governor calling this a rescue and recovery mission not giving up hope. first responders and emergency crews from all over the state have come here to help. it is a massive undertaking. one firefighter saying it was like walking on the roof of a structure that's collapsed into a hole. it's going to be more difficult night ahead with tens of thousands of people without power and without water. as you mentioned, the tornado that destroyed this candle factory was on the ground for more than 200 miles. it is really difficult to grasp the scope of devastation in this area. downtown levelled. main fire station gone. emergency service station gone as well. that's why we're relying on those all too crucial aerial pictures and countless other jurisdictions are here to help. 110 people were working in this candle factory at the busiest time of year. 24/7, three shifts a day. two weeks before christmas. such an awful story. but there are stories of survival. we're all hoping the nation and this community hoping that we find more of those stories of survival. that's the latest here live in kentucky. now back to you. >> just unbelievable devastation there. wendy, thanks so much for that report out of mayfield with the latest. we'll continue to monitor the developments throughout the rest of the night here. we have more "american voices" coming up after this quick break. pplements, neuriva plus fuels six key indicators of brain performance. more brain performance? yes, please! neuriva. think bigger. real cowboys get customized car insurance with liberty mutual, so we only pay for what we need. -hey tex, -wooo. can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. 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(music) ♪ i think to myself ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ (music) ♪ i think to myself ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ if you want a democracy, you have to fight to keep it. an urgent matter leading president biden to host a virtual summit for democracy this week, inviting more than 100 nations for a discussion on how to expand democracy across the globe, which biden sees as the, quote, defining challenge of our time. >> but the future belongs to those who embrace human dignity, not those who trample it. who release the potential of their people, not who stifle it, and giving the opportunity to those to breathe free, not those to seek to suffocate people with their iron hand. >> consider this reporting from the "atlantic." quote, this was the fifth consecutive year in which the number of countries moving in the direction of authoritarianism outpaced those moving toward democracy. among the back sliders are some of the world's largest democracies, including brazil, india, and the philippines. the bad guys are winning. here at home we're inching toward one year since the deadly insurrection at the u.s. capitol. republicans are still pushing the big lie despite no evidence of widespread voter fraud. remember, trump's own dhs said the 2020 election was the most secure in u.s. history. joining us now, senior fellow at the center for american progress. dan, when we talk about that global slide toward authoritarianism, what are the forces driving that? >> several things. the pandemic helped accelerate it, as leaders have used the excuse of the pandemic to shut down political space. you also had for four years you had a president of the united states who quite frankly and quite clearly didn't really believe in democracy, who embraced authoritarian leaders more than he embraced democratic leaders around the world. and that was a permission slip, if you will, for leaders to see that it was okay to close down space, to make it harder on independent media, to make it harder on human rights activists, to make it harder for women's rights, the whole litany of rights around the world. and you have an assertive china filling more economic space around the world, and that too gives more freedom of movement, if you will, for those who want to close down political space and who want to close down dissent. >> i will include that permission slip among the trump hangover. i want to talk with you about democracy here at home. new analysis from "the washington post" reads, quote, many americans spend little time thinking or worrying about issues of democracy. some see these warnings as alarmist, after all trump tried to overturn the election and failed, but not before an attack object capitol by a trump-inspired mob, given the former president's relentless campaign of untruths and a seeming desire to run in 2024, there's no guarantee that the system will hold the next time around. i believe those numbers, dan. i believe that there are a lot of people who are busy in their lives and they're trying to get by and they're trying to make ends meet, sitting around and talking about democracy can feel esoteric when reality it's at the core of our lives. how do you overcome the challenge, it would seem, of proving to americans that democracy is not a given? >> you have to prove that democracy can deliver. you have to make the positive argument rather than an argument that often -- as that quote highlights, often falls on deaf ears, feels like something that's far away and not part of the day-to-day lives of average americans. and so the real challenge right now, the governance challenge and the defense of democracy challenge is proving that democracy in the united states can make people's lives better. can tame the pandemic, can reactivate our economy, can provide family leave, can provide the sorts of things that are in the social infrastructure bill currently pending before congress. you've got to make a difference, a positive difference in people's lives and how they're living their lives day to day so that they can understand the value of democracy. otherwise it feels like there's no real difference. it just feels far away. and it's not an argument you win with words. it's an argument you win with deed. >> i have 30 seconds left but i do have to ask you about the eight latin american countries in the caribbean that weren't invited to this week's summit. what do you make of that? >> look, democracy is back sliding in the americas as well. you have some real outliers, the obvious outliers, the cubans, and venezuelans, and you have places where democracy is really under threat in a more -- in a less obvious way. in northern central america you have kind of rigged economies, rigged political systems. and this is troubling for a region that's stood out as a beacon of democracy. in the 1980s and '90s, the americas led the way in the wave of democratizization after a wave of oppression. the u.s. has got to get in the game and help democracies deliver across the region, a region that's been devastated by this pandemic, otherwise we'll see the negative trends continue. >> as always, i'm so grateful for your time. new information out of illinois this hour. authorities confirming six people are dead after a tornado hit an amazon warehouse. dozens more killed across several states in this rare december tornado outbreak. next, a story of survival from kentucky. a worker buried under the rubble inside a candle factory. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ my songs know what you did in the dark ♪ ♪ so light 'em up, up, up light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ i'm on fire ♪ ♪ so light 'em up, up, up light 'em... ♪ [music: sung by craig robinson] ♪ i'm on fire ♪ ♪ i'm a ganiac, ganiac, check my drawers ♪ [sfx: sniffs] ♪ and my clothes smell so much fresher than before ♪ try gain flings and you'll be a gainiac too! the only detergent with oxiboost and febreze. wow... that's so nice! the gift of ancestry®... is a walk through your history. do you remember who this is? where the more you discover... wow! ...the more you come together. i can see... the nose... this holiday, give the gift of family. give the gift of ancestry®. every day in business brings something new. this holiday, give the gift of family. so get the flexibility of the new mobile service designed for your small business. introducing comcast business mobile. you get the most reliable network with nationwide 5g included. and you can get unlimited data for just $30 per line per month when you get four lines or mix and match data options. available now for comcast business internet customers with no line-activation fees or term contract required. see if you can save by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. shipping costs and print out shipping labels it's my secret ingredient shipstation the number 1 choice of online sellers and wolfgang puck go to shipstation.com/try and get 2 months free we're following breaking news across several states torn apart overnight due to tornadoes. as the search for survivors continue, in illinois officials say 45 people have been pulled to safety from the rubble when an amazon distribution center in the city of edwardsville. it's a story of survival similar to one this morning in kentucky where the governor fears the death toll will exceed 100 given how many people are still missing. a number worked at a candle factory in the city of mayfield, kentucky, where the 100 were on the clock inside the factory when the storm hit. one of the survivors spoke to my colleague, ali velshi earlier on msnbc. >> we were completely trapped underneath. where i was at, it was kind of like an angle. okay, like an angle. and i was kind of back here. and there was a lot of people out in this way. but we were all pinned up against each other. and where i was, my legs were -- like, i put my feet together, not quite sitting indian style, but it was a very awkward position. but in the middle i was pinned down by a water fountain. and so as people were trying to get us out, i was like can y'all get this off me? and my supervisor, he was helping and trying to get -- he says, kyanna, there's an air conditioning unit there, we can't move it. >> and so how did you get out? how did those things that were trapping people and trapping you get removed? >> we started moving the debris. they told me to cover my eyes, close my eyes, cover my face. i had on a hoodie, and i covered it up and we started breaking -- tearing up the dry wall and pulling the debris and moving and kind of digging ourselves out from the bottom. what happened was -- it was me and one of my coworkers. we were just all packed together. but once they started getting one out, then the others had moved -- to move around, we could get more and more people out. and then people were able to get in there to also help us to get out. >> did you feel at some point that you were going to die? i mean, i don't know how whether you're running on adrenaline right now or what, but if i had that experience, i don't know if i could formulate a thought, never mind my name. i mean, that sounded absolutely terrifying. >> it's god's grace and mercy. i have a praying family and community, and god kept us. for me, i didn't think i was going to make it because of where i was, and i was so afraid that -- so when the search and rescue people came, they had already got everybody out. i was one of the last people in that particular area. and so i was just so afraid. i'm like, they not going to be able to get me out. i'm going to die on my birthday. what is that? and so the guy, it was either gary ornate. those are the two names i remember. he says we'll get you out of there, kyanna. i said, okay, can you just get this air conditioner off me? if you can get this air conditioner off, i can stay under here for hours because my legs -- i couldn't feel my legs. >> oh, my god. >> and the man told me, he said, kyanna, there's about five feet worth of debris on top of you. >> wow. how are your legs now? how are you feeling now? >> my legs are sore. i will be going to the doctor. i have some bruises from the air conditioning unit. and then at some point something hit me in my head when we first went down. i got hit in the head, so my head hurts. so i am going to go to the e.r. i'm going to go to the urgent care just to make sure there's nothing -- i just want to get home because my clothes were soaking wet because initially i thought i was just underneath the water fountain. so the water was dripping. but it was still raining, so wince they started opening up, i'm getting rained on. it was a whole a lot of nada, and i just wanted to get home to see my kids because they were worried about me, they were crying. >> ali velshi will be reporting from mayfield, kentucky, starting tomorrow morning. you can see him and the rest of our team coverage then and throughout the weekend right here on msnbc. next, outing the innocent. what just happened in the ghislaine maxwell trial that could stop survivors from speaking their truth in the future. later, why gen z is out to prove a point when it comes to conspiracy theories. cough cough sneeze sneeze... 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>> absolutely. you know, one of the things that we know is that it's hard enough for survivors of sexual violence to come forward and report. it's one of the reasons that it is, frankly, among the most underreported crimes. and it's critically important that survivors have the choice to be able to access justice without sacrificing their privacy and really their sense of safety. and, frankly, all eyes are on this trial right now, so to see a defense attorney accidentally use the real names of those survivors on three separate occasions is just devastating for survivors everywhere. >> given that it was on three separate occasions, do you believe that it was accidental? >> you know, frankly, it's hard for me to believe on three separate occasions but it's going to be more significantly, it's the message it extends to survivors. you know, we have made tremendous strides over the past few years with the me too movement and victims and survivors coming forward and reporting. however, the continued progress of our movement is really dependent upon how we treat survivors and making sure that they are safe and supported. and at the heart of that is oftentimes maintaining their privacy and confidentiality. >> what are your concerns for these survivors specifically who've been named in court given how high-profile this case is? >> i think it's devastating. i mean, we have seen this defense relentlessly attack these survivors as they bravely come forward. and the potential, particularly with the media exposure in this case, with the internet, with social media -- we've seen this in other cases where their names have been exposed and they've been attacked. and so for these four survivors who came forward and decided to make a report, for this to be the outcome is just clearly devastating for them and devastating, really, for all survivors. >> given that this is not the first time that you have seen this happen, that this is what some might call a strategy that can be employed, when you have seen it in the past, does it work or does it backfire? >> i think it's really dependent upon, obviously, the jury. however, i think that particularly as our culture has been changing over the past few years with the me too movement and hopefully some of the changes have shifted around victim blaming, i think in this case, as other cases, it could really backfire in the sense that i think the jury could very likely question the defense's motives in accidentally naming the victims on three different times. >> to that end, do you expect the defense to change its game next week? >> you know, i think -- i can't speak for the defense in that sense. i think at this point what i see with the defense is them trying to throw a lot of mud and seeing what will stick. so they're making a lot of false claims, you know, within the media and such that these survivors are seeking fame, they're seeking fortune, none of which has validity. i don't think they'll change their tactics at this point. >> we were shocked when we watched this happen and wanted to speak with you. so thank you so much for your time. we continue to follow the devastation across the south from last night's tornado outbreak. right now emergency officials in tennessee are giving an update confirming at least four people were killed there overnight during the storms. one other person still missing. at least 74 others were injured. tens of thousands still without power tonight in tennessee. stay with us for continuing coverage. this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. and set aside more for things like healthcare, or whatever comes down the road. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. the new sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair has the science to showroad. that the toothpaste goes deep inside the exposed dentin to help repair sensitive teeth. my patients are able to have that quality of life back. i recommend sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair. there is no place like home y'all! and these people know that there is no place like wayfair. i never thought i'd buy a pink velvet sofa, but when i saw it, i was like 'ah'. and then i sat on it, and i was like 'ooh'. ooh! stylish and napable. okay now. i can relate to this one. i'm a working mom with three boys. 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(kate) this year, holiday better, with verizon. because everyone deserves better. i think the 17th all around us, we believe they're charging on power lines. we believe that bird poop on cars is a liquid-tracking apparatus. >> that is cert of birds aren't real, a conspiracy movement with thousands of gen z followers. they believe the government replace birds with drones. it has chapters in all 50 states and protested outside twitter's headquarters in san francisco recently. >> birds aren't real! birds aren't real! birds aren't real! >> birds aren't real! birds aren't real! >> because it is. if that seems like a big joke, that's because it is. the leader of birds aren't real, telling "the new york times" the conspiracy theory is really just a parody with a purpose. taylor lorenz joins me now. i'm happy when i see your byline on the front page of "the new york times." and this story to me really gets to something we've been talking about the entire show. we talk about it every week, which is democracy and a post-truth america. you talk about a post-truth world that gen z has grown up in. what, then, is the appeal for young people raised by the internet of something like this? >> yeah. well, the appeal for something like this is kind of the same thing that appeals in terms of normal conspiracies, which is community and connection and kind of rallying behind a cause. in this case, it's also about kind of activism and dispelling a lot of the sort of true conspiracies that have taken hold in america. a lot of kids involved with this movement said it's really cathartic. some of them grew up in homes, you know, that are overrun with conspiracies, maybe their parents, relatives or friends believe in these really harmful conspiracies, so this is like a mass coping mechanism for these kids. >> the founder was homeschooled in arkansas. how did his upbringing inspire birds aren't real? >> well, his religious upbringing is, i think -- it really informed all of birds aren't real. he said it's from the deep inside. i think he really understands how these harmful conspiracies take hold, especially in young people's minds. so he's really, really focused on community-building and obviously now speaking out, he doesn't want the movement to accidentally attract anyone that actually might believe this type of stuff. he wants to make it very clear that it's satire. >> is he succeeding in that effort? >> yes. he is succeeding. i spoke to, you know, dozens of people about this, including a disinformation researcher. pretty much no one affiliated with the movement really believes that birds are not real. it's become kind of a meme. and, you know, it seems to be all in good fun. so i don't think that they have attracted any kind of negativity so far. >> one of the organizers you spoke with described it as fighting lunacy with lunacy. and i wonder when you talk with disinformation experts if they think that is a strategy that could apply more broadly. >> yeah. they actually said that it was a really successful strategy. it is kind of instead of counter trying to give facts to counter a lot of these conspiracies, almost laughing at it allows this to be de-escalation. it's been really successful. the birds aren't real group, these activist members of the organization that go out and protest, they have been really successful at de-escalating a lot of conflicts. just recently one in cincinnati where anti-abortion activists were there rallying around this texas abortion ban. the birds aren't real sort of movement took over that counterprotest and ended up tee escalating. >> do you see them becoming a bigger political force? >> i think they are already are. this group has hundreds of thousands of members. when you think about the power that gen z and young people wield especially on the internet, i think collectives like this, especially when the community is so strong as it is in birds aren't real, they absolutely have the power to invoke change. we saw similar things like this with -- on tiktok with tiktokers for biden, gen z for change, all of these groups are extremely active and extremely tight-knit and, you know, they believe in these causes that they want to see elected officials speak to. >> taylor, thank you so much for joining us. a curfew is in effect as first responders search for survivors from last night's tornado outbreak. kentucky's governor calling it the worst in state history. president biden approving a state of emergency there. we are going to bring you updates as they come throughout the evening. after another break, with justice sonya sotomayor did this week has many calling her the conscience of the supreme court. i am ayman mohyeldin. tonight the january 6th insurrection failed to overturn the 2020 election but next time democracy might not be so lucky. into plus, former white house chief of staff mark meadows's powerpoint plan. sometimes the jokes write themselves. tune in tonight at 8:00 p.m. on msnbc "ayman." m. on msnbc for "ayman." cake and eat it too. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? the best things america makes are the things america makes out here. the history she writes in her clear blue skies. the legends she births on hometown fields. and the future she promises. when we made grand wagoneer, proudly assembled in america, we knew no object would ever rank with the best things in this country. but we believed we could make something worthy of their spirit. i've got moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months, after just 2 doses. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or coughs or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪nothing is everything♪ talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. the peñas are saving big, holiday shopping at amazon. so now, they're free to become... the party peñas. they see your ugly sweaters, and raise you some mittens. supreme court and the justices quickly becoming in the eyes of many legal scholars the conscience of the court. sonia sotomayer. she went on record this week during oral arguments in the mississippi abortion case calling out the politics that brought the abortion ban to the nation's highest bench citing her own observation of how states are passing ever stricter abortion laws, inspired by the court's new conservative majority. here is justice sotomayer in her own words. >> will this institution survive the stench that this creates in the public perception that the constitution and its reading are just political acts? >> will it survive the stench, she asks. as ruth marcus writes for "the washington post," this was no spur of the moment comment. stench was a word chosen calibrated to the perceived danger of the moment, studiously oblivious to whether it would antagonize colleagues. it was shouting fire in an uncrowded courtroom, not so much to those present, but to a live-streaming nation. it wasn't just that s word that made a mark. sotomayor pounding lawyers, arguing in favor of mississippi's ban and overturning roe, asking the state solicitor general, how is injury interest anything but a religious view? what are the advancements in medicine that justify abandoning roe v. wade and when does the life of a woman and putting her at risk put her into the cal cue laos? the court seems to uphold mississippi's prohibition on abortion helping cement that fear, the supreme court decided to uphold the abortion ban in texas. the justices ruling the law can be challenged in court. dissenting in the texas case, justice sotomayer, kagan and breyer, writing the law is, quite, unconstitutional scheme enacted in open defiance of women's rights in madness of the supreme court should have put to an end months ago. the court, quote, betrays the citizens of texas and our constitutional system of government. that language, that courage to address the stench within our own ranks has many like harvard legal scholar tribe declaring sotomayor the conscience of the court and a brilliant one at that calling her one of president obama's greatest contributions. which congresswoman velasquez agreed with. with a reminder highlighting a letter the scholar wrote to president obama describing sotomayor as, quote, not merely as smart as she seems to think she is. adding this hard truth. when comes to woman of color we have to prove our evans every day. indeed. may in moment of and evolution of opinion remind us that often the person who describes a woman of color as overestimating her own ability is actually underestimating how her life experience allows her to understand the stakes, requires her to be a truth teller, and prepares her to be the conscience of an institution. that will do it for me on this saturday. i will see you back here tomorrow 6:00 p.m. eastern for more american voices. for now, i hand it over to ayman mohyeldin. >> so glad you ended on that point talking about the supreme court. we will spend time talking about that tonight. it is a story that i think everybody in this country is watching very closely. thank you, my friend. enjoy the rest of your evening. good evening and welcome to you at home. i'm ayman mohyeldin. tonight nearly 200,000 are without power at this hour after a devastating outbreak of tornados swept through parts of the midwest and tennessee river valley parts. overnight in kentucky alone officials are estimating that the death toll could reach at least 100. we are going to bring you the very latest on that breaking news story throughout the next two hours as it continues to develop.

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Transcripts For MSNBC American Voices With Alicia Menendez 20240709

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- we are for criminal justice reform. chesa's not it. recall chesa boudin now. supreme court ruling friday texas abortion providers can move forward with challenges against the law, but the law itself remains on the books as changes move through the legal system. if someone in texas needs a safe and legal abortion, they will have to cross state lines. previewing what a post-roe looks like. a law specifically aimed at unraveling roe. the court set to issue its decision next summer. if roe goes, 26 states are certain or likely to ban abortions, too. this map showing what it will look like when the power over abortion access is put in the hands of each state. something massachusetts congressman pressley warned of today on msnbc. >> these courts have proven time and time again they are not on the side of the people. this is settled law. a majority of americans do not want to see roe v. wade overturned. abortion care is health care. when we have these bans, it doesn't mean people stop having abortions. it just means they stop doing it safely and legally. this is quite literally a matter of life and death. >> they argue they are fighting for the sanctiontity of life. so that's the case, why do these same gop leaders oppose nearly every measure designed to help americans thrive, especially for children and families of low income. they oppose biden's building back better plan which provides four weeks of paid family leave, universal pre-k, lowers the cost of child care. vice president kamala harris touted that coverage this week at the first ever white house day of action on maternal health. >> maternal mortality and morbidity is a serious crisis. and one that endangered both public health and economic growth. which means everyone is impacted by it. we know that when we invest in women's health, when we invest in maternal health, economic productivity increases and socioeconomic improve. >> joining us now professor of law at the university of california irvine and new york magazine senior correspondent. michelle, i want to start with the gop's lack of investment in policies that actually improve the lives of family. an article frames it this way, quote, a remotely humane pro-life movement wouldn't demand that kids be born into economic misery. instead, they back policies that support parents and their children once they're out of the womb. in other words, i might support something like biden's agenda. these are all policies that would make it easier to help single moms raise children and could theoretically make a post-roe world less nightmarish for families. but they run afoul to social spending by the government and thus face across the board opposition from conservatives. may shell, what are the consequences of banning abortions but then doing something to support or address measures to actually help children and families? >> first, thank you for having me on your show this evening. i think vice president kamala harris put it quite well. united states leads the developed world and beyond that in terms of maternal mortality. and the most glaring rates of maternal death take place in the states with the most abortion bans, the most targeted regulations against abortion providers. otherwise known as trap laws. and though it seems that people have been shy about naming it for what it really is, many of these consequences are life and death. so even if we weren't talking about abortion bans, a person is 14 times more likely to die by carrying a pregnancy to term than by having an abortion. abortions are very safe, one of the safest procedures a person can be. so when these restrictions are papers over again and again, what we see are the increased risks to maternal health and safety and we don't see these states enacting legislation or with doing -- proceeding in procedural ways that would help to enhance maternal safety. as well, it's worth noting that infant mortality is glaring and alarming in those states. let me give you this one statistics that comes from the central intelligence agency. they note it on their website, so this isn't just professor goodwin. this is a cia which notes the united states ranked below 50th in the world in terms of maternal health and safety. we have to keep that figure in mind because then it's not just being behind england, germany, france, italy, et cetera. it means being behind bosnia and saudi arabia in terms of keeping people alive during that pregnancy. and it's even more glaring in states like texas, louisiana and mississippi. and we'll talk about race, too. >> yeah, glaring indeed. if the supreme court overturns or limits roe next summer, i know you have strong opinions on whether or not they will. dozens of republican-led states will move forward with abortion bans. what tactics should we expect from this republican party if we don't have federal guard rails protecting abortion access? >> well, they have been laying the ground work for a long time. i just want to underscore the point that professor goodwin made because in states like texas it is not a coincidence these rates are so high. they kick people off medicaid 60 days after giving birth. you need that postpartum support, that medical support. that's when we lose people. and so instead of doing something like expanding tenure of postpartum care for medicaid, legislature is going to texas, louisiana, mississippi, alabama have been laying the ground work for what to do when the supreme court does wipe away these guard rails. the supreme court has already let them do that. we don't have to imagine. as you mentioned in your intro, since september 1st, more than 100 days, abortion has been basically illegal for most people in texas unless you can afford to leave the state or take matters into your own hands, which leaves you legally vulnerable to prosecution. so we actually don't even have to wait for it to happen. we can look at what's happening in texas. the other effects that will happen if in the texas case, you know, they have given them almost no opportunity for belief, these abortion providers to reopen their door, even if they only get a couple of months to reopen to a greater extent than a very limited capacity that they have right now, you are looking towards that decision in june that you mentioned out of mississippi, which will empower many of the states around texas. many of them already have legislation that's more straightforward than what they did in texas. doesn't involve this kind of bounty hunter provision. just straightforward as we're banning abortion at whatever time. some states set up cascading bans. they're set up for the supreme court. every two weeks they ban abortion. and these laws will be triggered into effect the moment that the supreme court gives them the green light. so in texas it is already happening but should you live in a state like texas, you will have fewer places to travel because a large swath of the country in that map you showed you will have to travel ever further because the midwest and the southeast will all close their doors to people seeking abortions. >> you have to get on the plane. as you and i have talked about many times, there are people that just can't take that much time off of work in order to make that type of track, much less have the resources to take the flight. which of course, professor goodwin, you said you wanted to talk about race, so i want to loop back to that. but within the context of maternal health outcomes and who these abortion bans will affect. >> let's be clear that these bans harm the most vulnerable of people in our society, and those who have both risked their health in terms of being coerced or forced to carry pregnancies to term that they have not wanted have been black and brown, including in the state of texas and in mississippi where there is only one abortion clinic that remains. the majority of their patients happen to be black women. it is very clear that in-laws such as this that we have seen in texas, sba, the mississippi law that these are laws that have a discriminatory impact against black women. it's a disparate impact against them. and we have to speak to this. those persons who have -- who can afford to, will leave the state just as we have seen with texas with people leaving, going to california and elsewhere and, sure, there have been abortion funds that helped to underwrite that sum for people who are of the most strike thatfied means, those who are the worst off. but let's be clear. in mississippi where the death rates are already high for black women, we're coerced to carry pregnancies to term when they have limited access to care, they will be most affected. it is those people whose health will be most affected. and sadly, this is a pattern in states like texas, mississippi and alabama. and it's our failure if we don't connect the dots. we cannot talk about this without also including america's history of worst slavery. we see a continued effect of gutting, erasing, ignores any kind of human right, let alone constitutional right or civil liberty of black women to control their own reproductive health care. we saw that in the 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, but that it was done with the 13th amendment abolishing slavery. but here we are, back to states that say we can coerce black women, force them to carry to term pregnancies that they may not want and, in fact, risk their life if they do so. >> professor goodwin, i have to tell you, i am aware of your work through reporting so i'm so happy i was able to have the two of you on together tonight. thank you both so much. next, democracy under threat here and abroad. the international challenge facing the biden administration. and during trial, one of ghislaine maxwell's attorneys named accusers who should remain anonymous. the danger that does for any survivor speaking their truths ahead. the latest on the tornado outbreak across several states. steven romo tracking developments for us. >> thanks. and getting caught up on that breaking news tonight, authorities still searching for survivors after a series of deadly tornados ripped through states overnight. arkansas, missouri, mississippi, tennessee, illinois and kentucky. and one case in kentucky where it's feared the death toll could surpass 100, the governor says they believed the tornado touched down and carved a 250 mile path across the united states which if true would be a record breaking twister. president biden addressing those affected by the storms a short time ago. >> i mean, it's profound. it's just profound. and it's -- but i promise you, whatever is needed, whatever is needed the federal government is going to find a way to supply it. >> we turn to mayfield, kentucky where we find wendy. where are you and what's the latest there? >> reporter: steven, good evening to you. the waiting is really weighing on people now that the temperatures are dropping and darkness has fallen, making the situation gone from bad to even worse. no new numbers to report at this point. 40 people were rescued from what's left of the candle factory behind us. the governor saying it will have to be a miracle to find anyone else alive in this rubble. but the governor calling this a rescue and recovery mission not giving up hope. first responders and emergency crews from all over the state have come here to help. it is a massive undertaking. one firefighter saying it was like walking on the roof of a structure that's collapsed into a hole. it's going to be more difficult night ahead with tens of thousands of people without power and without water. as you mentioned, the tornado that destroyed this candle factory was on the ground for more than 200 miles. it is really difficult to grasp the scope of devastation in this area. downtown levelled. main fire station gone. emergency service station gone as well. that's why we're relying on those all too crucial aerial pictures and countless other jurisdictions are here to help. 110 people were working in this candle factory at the busiest time of year. 24/7, three shifts a day. two weeks before christmas. such an awful story. but there are stories of survival. we're all hoping the nation and this community hoping that we find more of those stories of survival. that's the latest here live in kentucky. now back to you. >> just unbelievable devastation there. wendy, thanks so much for that report out of mayfield with the latest. we'll continue to monitor the developments throughout the rest of the night here. we have more "american voices" coming up after this quick break. pplements, neuriva plus fuels six key indicators of brain performance. more brain performance? yes, please! neuriva. think bigger. real cowboys get customized car insurance with liberty mutual, so we only pay for what we need. -hey tex, -wooo. can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. 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(music) ♪ i think to myself ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ (music) ♪ i think to myself ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ if you want a democracy, you have to fight to keep it. an urgent matter leading president biden to host a virtual summit for democracy this week, inviting more than 100 nations for a discussion on how to expand democracy across the globe, which biden sees as the, quote, defining challenge of our time. >> but the future belongs to those who embrace human dignity, not those who trample it. who release the potential of their people, not who stifle it, and giving the opportunity to those to breathe free, not those to seek to suffocate people with their iron hand. >> consider this reporting from the "atlantic." quote, this was the fifth consecutive year in which the number of countries moving in the direction of authoritarianism outpaced those moving toward democracy. among the back sliders are some of the world's largest democracies, including brazil, india, and the philippines. the bad guys are winning. here at home we're inching toward one year since the deadly insurrection at the u.s. capitol. republicans are still pushing the big lie despite no evidence of widespread voter fraud. remember, trump's own dhs said the 2020 election was the most secure in u.s. history. joining us now, senior fellow at the center for american progress. dan, when we talk about that global slide toward authoritarianism, what are the forces driving that? >> several things. the pandemic helped accelerate it, as leaders have used the excuse of the pandemic to shut down political space. you also had for four years you had a president of the united states who quite frankly and quite clearly didn't really believe in democracy, who embraced authoritarian leaders more than he embraced democratic leaders around the world. and that was a permission slip, if you will, for leaders to see that it was okay to close down space, to make it harder on independent media, to make it harder on human rights activists, to make it harder for women's rights, the whole litany of rights around the world. and you have an assertive china filling more economic space around the world, and that too gives more freedom of movement, if you will, for those who want to close down political space and who want to close down dissent. >> i will include that permission slip among the trump hangover. i want to talk with you about democracy here at home. new analysis from "the washington post" reads, quote, many americans spend little time thinking or worrying about issues of democracy. some see these warnings as alarmist, after all trump tried to overturn the election and failed, but not before an attack object capitol by a trump-inspired mob, given the former president's relentless campaign of untruths and a seeming desire to run in 2024, there's no guarantee that the system will hold the next time around. i believe those numbers, dan. i believe that there are a lot of people who are busy in their lives and they're trying to get by and they're trying to make ends meet, sitting around and talking about democracy can feel esoteric when reality it's at the core of our lives. how do you overcome the challenge, it would seem, of proving to americans that democracy is not a given? >> you have to prove that democracy can deliver. you have to make the positive argument rather than an argument that often -- as that quote highlights, often falls on deaf ears, feels like something that's far away and not part of the day-to-day lives of average americans. and so the real challenge right now, the governance challenge and the defense of democracy challenge is proving that democracy in the united states can make people's lives better. can tame the pandemic, can reactivate our economy, can provide family leave, can provide the sorts of things that are in the social infrastructure bill currently pending before congress. you've got to make a difference, a positive difference in people's lives and how they're living their lives day to day so that they can understand the value of democracy. otherwise it feels like there's no real difference. it just feels far away. and it's not an argument you win with words. it's an argument you win with deed. >> i have 30 seconds left but i do have to ask you about the eight latin american countries in the caribbean that weren't invited to this week's summit. what do you make of that? >> look, democracy is back sliding in the americas as well. you have some real outliers, the obvious outliers, the cubans, and venezuelans, and you have places where democracy is really under threat in a more -- in a less obvious way. in northern central america you have kind of rigged economies, rigged political systems. and this is troubling for a region that's stood out as a beacon of democracy. in the 1980s and '90s, the americas led the way in the wave of democratizization after a wave of oppression. the u.s. has got to get in the game and help democracies deliver across the region, a region that's been devastated by this pandemic, otherwise we'll see the negative trends continue. >> as always, i'm so grateful for your time. new information out of illinois this hour. authorities confirming six people are dead after a tornado hit an amazon warehouse. dozens more killed across several states in this rare december tornado outbreak. next, a story of survival from kentucky. a worker buried under the rubble inside a candle factory. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ my songs know what you did in the dark ♪ ♪ so light 'em up, up, up light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ i'm on fire ♪ ♪ so light 'em up, up, up light 'em... ♪ [music: sung by craig robinson] ♪ i'm on fire ♪ ♪ i'm a ganiac, ganiac, check my drawers ♪ [sfx: sniffs] ♪ and my clothes smell so much fresher than before ♪ try gain flings and you'll be a gainiac too! the only detergent with oxiboost and febreze. wow... that's so nice! the gift of ancestry®... is a walk through your history. do you remember who this is? where the more you discover... wow! ...the more you come together. i can see... the nose... this holiday, give the gift of family. give the gift of ancestry®. every day in business brings something new. this holiday, give the gift of family. so get the flexibility of the new mobile service designed for your small business. introducing comcast business mobile. you get the most reliable network with nationwide 5g included. and you can get unlimited data for just $30 per line per month when you get four lines or mix and match data options. available now for comcast business internet customers with no line-activation fees or term contract required. see if you can save by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. shipping costs and print out shipping labels it's my secret ingredient shipstation the number 1 choice of online sellers and wolfgang puck go to shipstation.com/try and get 2 months free we're following breaking news across several states torn apart overnight due to tornadoes. as the search for survivors continue, in illinois officials say 45 people have been pulled to safety from the rubble when an amazon distribution center in the city of edwardsville. it's a story of survival similar to one this morning in kentucky where the governor fears the death toll will exceed 100 given how many people are still missing. a number worked at a candle factory in the city of mayfield, kentucky, where the 100 were on the clock inside the factory when the storm hit. one of the survivors spoke to my colleague, ali velshi earlier on msnbc. >> we were completely trapped underneath. where i was at, it was kind of like an angle. okay, like an angle. and i was kind of back here. and there was a lot of people out in this way. but we were all pinned up against each other. and where i was, my legs were -- like, i put my feet together, not quite sitting indian style, but it was a very awkward position. but in the middle i was pinned down by a water fountain. and so as people were trying to get us out, i was like can y'all get this off me? and my supervisor, he was helping and trying to get -- he says, kyanna, there's an air conditioning unit there, we can't move it. >> and so how did you get out? how did those things that were trapping people and trapping you get removed? >> we started moving the debris. they told me to cover my eyes, close my eyes, cover my face. i had on a hoodie, and i covered it up and we started breaking -- tearing up the dry wall and pulling the debris and moving and kind of digging ourselves out from the bottom. what happened was -- it was me and one of my coworkers. we were just all packed together. but once they started getting one out, then the others had moved -- to move around, we could get more and more people out. and then people were able to get in there to also help us to get out. >> did you feel at some point that you were going to die? i mean, i don't know how whether you're running on adrenaline right now or what, but if i had that experience, i don't know if i could formulate a thought, never mind my name. i mean, that sounded absolutely terrifying. >> it's god's grace and mercy. i have a praying family and community, and god kept us. for me, i didn't think i was going to make it because of where i was, and i was so afraid that -- so when the search and rescue people came, they had already got everybody out. i was one of the last people in that particular area. and so i was just so afraid. i'm like, they not going to be able to get me out. i'm going to die on my birthday. what is that? and so the guy, it was either gary ornate. those are the two names i remember. he says we'll get you out of there, kyanna. i said, okay, can you just get this air conditioner off me? if you can get this air conditioner off, i can stay under here for hours because my legs -- i couldn't feel my legs. >> oh, my god. >> and the man told me, he said, kyanna, there's about five feet worth of debris on top of you. >> wow. how are your legs now? how are you feeling now? >> my legs are sore. i will be going to the doctor. i have some bruises from the air conditioning unit. and then at some point something hit me in my head when we first went down. i got hit in the head, so my head hurts. so i am going to go to the e.r. i'm going to go to the urgent care just to make sure there's nothing -- i just want to get home because my clothes were soaking wet because initially i thought i was just underneath the water fountain. so the water was dripping. but it was still raining, so wince they started opening up, i'm getting rained on. it was a whole a lot of nada, and i just wanted to get home to see my kids because they were worried about me, they were crying. >> ali velshi will be reporting from mayfield, kentucky, starting tomorrow morning. you can see him and the rest of our team coverage then and throughout the weekend right here on msnbc. next, outing the innocent. what just happened in the ghislaine maxwell trial that could stop survivors from speaking their truth in the future. later, why gen z is out to prove a point when it comes to conspiracy theories. cough cough sneeze sneeze... 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>> absolutely. you know, one of the things that we know is that it's hard enough for survivors of sexual violence to come forward and report. it's one of the reasons that it is, frankly, among the most underreported crimes. and it's critically important that survivors have the choice to be able to access justice without sacrificing their privacy and really their sense of safety. and, frankly, all eyes are on this trial right now, so to see a defense attorney accidentally use the real names of those survivors on three separate occasions is just devastating for survivors everywhere. >> given that it was on three separate occasions, do you believe that it was accidental? >> you know, frankly, it's hard for me to believe on three separate occasions but it's going to be more significantly, it's the message it extends to survivors. you know, we have made tremendous strides over the past few years with the me too movement and victims and survivors coming forward and reporting. however, the continued progress of our movement is really dependent upon how we treat survivors and making sure that they are safe and supported. and at the heart of that is oftentimes maintaining their privacy and confidentiality. >> what are your concerns for these survivors specifically who've been named in court given how high-profile this case is? >> i think it's devastating. i mean, we have seen this defense relentlessly attack these survivors as they bravely come forward. and the potential, particularly with the media exposure in this case, with the internet, with social media -- we've seen this in other cases where their names have been exposed and they've been attacked. and so for these four survivors who came forward and decided to make a report, for this to be the outcome is just clearly devastating for them and devastating, really, for all survivors. >> given that this is not the first time that you have seen this happen, that this is what some might call a strategy that can be employed, when you have seen it in the past, does it work or does it backfire? >> i think it's really dependent upon, obviously, the jury. however, i think that particularly as our culture has been changing over the past few years with the me too movement and hopefully some of the changes have shifted around victim blaming, i think in this case, as other cases, it could really backfire in the sense that i think the jury could very likely question the defense's motives in accidentally naming the victims on three different times. >> to that end, do you expect the defense to change its game next week? >> you know, i think -- i can't speak for the defense in that sense. i think at this point what i see with the defense is them trying to throw a lot of mud and seeing what will stick. so they're making a lot of false claims, you know, within the media and such that these survivors are seeking fame, they're seeking fortune, none of which has validity. i don't think they'll change their tactics at this point. >> we were shocked when we watched this happen and wanted to speak with you. so thank you so much for your time. we continue to follow the devastation across the south from last night's tornado outbreak. right now emergency officials in tennessee are giving an update confirming at least four people were killed there overnight during the storms. one other person still missing. at least 74 others were injured. tens of thousands still without power tonight in tennessee. stay with us for continuing coverage. this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. and set aside more for things like healthcare, or whatever comes down the road. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. the new sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair has the science to showroad. that the toothpaste goes deep inside the exposed dentin to help repair sensitive teeth. my patients are able to have that quality of life back. i recommend sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair. there is no place like home y'all! and these people know that there is no place like wayfair. i never thought i'd buy a pink velvet sofa, but when i saw it, i was like 'ah'. and then i sat on it, and i was like 'ooh'. ooh! stylish and napable. okay now. i can relate to this one. i'm a working mom with three boys. 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(kate) this year, holiday better, with verizon. because everyone deserves better. i think the 17th all around us, we believe they're charging on power lines. we believe that bird poop on cars is a liquid-tracking apparatus. >> that is cert of birds aren't real, a conspiracy movement with thousands of gen z followers. they believe the government replace birds with drones. it has chapters in all 50 states and protested outside twitter's headquarters in san francisco recently. >> birds aren't real! birds aren't real! birds aren't real! >> birds aren't real! birds aren't real! >> because it is. if that seems like a big joke, that's because it is. the leader of birds aren't real, telling "the new york times" the conspiracy theory is really just a parody with a purpose. taylor lorenz joins me now. i'm happy when i see your byline on the front page of "the new york times." and this story to me really gets to something we've been talking about the entire show. we talk about it every week, which is democracy and a post-truth america. you talk about a post-truth world that gen z has grown up in. what, then, is the appeal for young people raised by the internet of something like this? >> yeah. well, the appeal for something like this is kind of the same thing that appeals in terms of normal conspiracies, which is community and connection and kind of rallying behind a cause. in this case, it's also about kind of activism and dispelling a lot of the sort of true conspiracies that have taken hold in america. a lot of kids involved with this movement said it's really cathartic. some of them grew up in homes, you know, that are overrun with conspiracies, maybe their parents, relatives or friends believe in these really harmful conspiracies, so this is like a mass coping mechanism for these kids. >> the founder was homeschooled in arkansas. how did his upbringing inspire birds aren't real? >> well, his religious upbringing is, i think -- it really informed all of birds aren't real. he said it's from the deep inside. i think he really understands how these harmful conspiracies take hold, especially in young people's minds. so he's really, really focused on community-building and obviously now speaking out, he doesn't want the movement to accidentally attract anyone that actually might believe this type of stuff. he wants to make it very clear that it's satire. >> is he succeeding in that effort? >> yes. he is succeeding. i spoke to, you know, dozens of people about this, including a disinformation researcher. pretty much no one affiliated with the movement really believes that birds are not real. it's become kind of a meme. and, you know, it seems to be all in good fun. so i don't think that they have attracted any kind of negativity so far. >> one of the organizers you spoke with described it as fighting lunacy with lunacy. and i wonder when you talk with disinformation experts if they think that is a strategy that could apply more broadly. >> yeah. they actually said that it was a really successful strategy. it is kind of instead of counter trying to give facts to counter a lot of these conspiracies, almost laughing at it allows this to be de-escalation. it's been really successful. the birds aren't real group, these activist members of the organization that go out and protest, they have been really successful at de-escalating a lot of conflicts. just recently one in cincinnati where anti-abortion activists were there rallying around this texas abortion ban. the birds aren't real sort of movement took over that counterprotest and ended up tee escalating. >> do you see them becoming a bigger political force? >> i think they are already are. this group has hundreds of thousands of members. when you think about the power that gen z and young people wield especially on the internet, i think collectives like this, especially when the community is so strong as it is in birds aren't real, they absolutely have the power to invoke change. we saw similar things like this with -- on tiktok with tiktokers for biden, gen z for change, all of these groups are extremely active and extremely tight-knit and, you know, they believe in these causes that they want to see elected officials speak to. >> taylor, thank you so much for joining us. a curfew is in effect as first responders search for survivors from last night's tornado outbreak. kentucky's governor calling it the worst in state history. president biden approving a state of emergency there. we are going to bring you updates as they come throughout the evening. after another break, with justice sonya sotomayor did this week has many calling her the conscience of the supreme court. i am ayman mohyeldin. tonight the january 6th insurrection failed to overturn the 2020 election but next time democracy might not be so lucky. into plus, former white house chief of staff mark meadows's powerpoint plan. sometimes the jokes write themselves. tune in tonight at 8:00 p.m. on msnbc "ayman." m. on msnbc for "ayman." cake and eat it too. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? 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>> will it survive the stench, she asks. as ruth marcus writes for "the washington post," this was no spur of the moment comment. stench was a word chosen calibrated to the perceived danger of the moment, studiously oblivious to whether it would antagonize colleagues. it was shouting fire in an uncrowded courtroom, not so much to those present, but to a live-streaming nation. it wasn't just that s word that made a mark. sotomayor pounding lawyers, arguing in favor of mississippi's ban and overturning roe, asking the state solicitor general, how is injury interest anything but a religious view? what are the advancements in medicine that justify abandoning roe v. wade and when does the life of a woman and putting her at risk put her into the cal cue laos? the court seems to uphold mississippi's prohibition on abortion helping cement that fear, the supreme court decided to uphold the abortion ban in texas. the justices ruling the law can be challenged in court. dissenting in the texas case, justice sotomayer, kagan and breyer, writing the law is, quite, unconstitutional scheme enacted in open defiance of women's rights in madness of the supreme court should have put to an end months ago. the court, quote, betrays the citizens of texas and our constitutional system of government. that language, that courage to address the stench within our own ranks has many like harvard legal scholar tribe declaring sotomayor the conscience of the court and a brilliant one at that calling her one of president obama's greatest contributions. which congresswoman velasquez agreed with. with a reminder highlighting a letter the scholar wrote to president obama describing sotomayor as, quote, not merely as smart as she seems to think she is. adding this hard truth. when comes to woman of color we have to prove our evans every day. indeed. may in moment of and evolution of opinion remind us that often the person who describes a woman of color as overestimating her own ability is actually underestimating how her life experience allows her to understand the stakes, requires her to be a truth teller, and prepares her to be the conscience of an institution. that will do it for me on this saturday. i will see you back here tomorrow 6:00 p.m. eastern for more american voices. for now, i hand it over to ayman mohyeldin. >> so glad you ended on that point talking about the supreme court. we will spend time talking about that tonight. it is a story that i think everybody in this country is watching very closely. thank you, my friend. enjoy the rest of your evening. good evening and welcome to you at home. i'm ayman mohyeldin. tonight nearly 200,000 are without power at this hour after a devastating outbreak of tornados swept through parts of the midwest and tennessee river valley parts. overnight in kentucky alone officials are estimating that the death toll could reach at least 100. we are going to bring you the very latest on that breaking news story throughout the next two hours as it continues to develop.

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