good evening rachel, you've got us in suspense on that one, that's for sure we. >> can we scare them or not? >> i know how much you love local tv. i know, you just cannot take your eyes off it. at the end of the hour tonight, we are going to have a local tv segment, and it's a montana local tv. we >> okay. no >> and it is starring a guy named jon tester. and we siege senator jon tester, he comes on your show, he comes on my show. montana jon tester, when he's doing local tv in montana, it's a whole other thing. and we're going to bring that to america, to all 50 states and beyond, at the end of this hour. a little piece of -- we >> does it or does it not involve, a tractor, or be a live animal. >> the big difference is the wardrobe. the big difference is the dress code, a local montana tv versus the senate office building. rachel, before you go, i hope you can help me with something we. we are dealing with a very serious case of what's senator daniel patrick, former harvard professor daniel patrick called is semantic infiltration. it wasn't his term, he got it from a sociologist in the 1970s, but it's a brilliant notion. the notion is, if you will use, if you can get them to use our language we have one half the battle of the presentation. an example for me of semantic infiltration which is driving me crazy, it's a couple of words that i am going to say, and really really don't want to say in the next few minutes. and those words are, proud boys, which i do not want to say we, and oath keepers which i do not want to say. because i think both of those are cases of semantic infiltration. those boys have nothing to be proud of. but that's with our colleagues, in their subpoenas. and the oath keepers don't believe in oaths that matter we. so i'm trying to find language for them that isn't what they want. that is in the title they want. >> i will say that with both of those groups, particularly the proud boys, but also a little bit with the oath keepers, i always have found them to be inadvertently funny. those names. not only because they define reality, as you're describing. but because they both sound really day, they both seem like they're referring to gate stuff. whether it's the proud boys, in terms of gay pride, or the oath keepers thing where they run the gate politics around gay marriage, we and been able to say or i dues with your beloved. both of those things, they have such a poorly derived sense of camp, and understanding about american sub cultural text. but they both ended up naming themselves something that could've been identities of affinity group of lesbian adventurers. i always thought that there kind of blame themselves but, i probably am in the minority on that. >> yeah, i just want different titles for them. i'm gonna -- >> feel free to call them the lesbian adventurous. >> all right, we'll try that, we won't try to tonight because it's not in the teleprompter. but we will try something, in the future. >> i'm gonna go before i get you a more in trouble. >> so on with it. today, the house select committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol issued five new subpoenas to organizations and individuals reportedly involved with planning the attacks, subpoenas were issued to the proud boys international llc, and its chairman, henry and rod tarrio. at least 34 individuals affiliated with the proud boys, have been indicted by the department of justice in relation to the january 6th attack on the capitol. according to the committee's letter to the proud boys, but nothing to be proud of, quote, indictments returned by a federal grand jury in washington d.c. indicate that the proud boys engage and extensive calls for violence leading up to january six 2021, certain indictments returned against proud boys members described prior planning and coordination, including efforts to fund-raise for protective gear and communications. furthermore, video evidence plainly demonstrates that proud boys members are involved in the january 6th attack. subpoenas were issued to the oath keepers, and it's president didn't elmer stewart rose. a group calling themselves the oath keepers, does not believe in keeping an oath to support and defend the constitution of the united states. the oath that donald trump took, and repeatedly violated. according to the committee's letter to the so-called oath keepers. quote, an indictment returned by a federal grand jury in washington d.c. described a conspiracy among at least 18 oath keepers, in which members of the oath keepers plan to move together in coordination and with regular communication to storm the united states capitol on january six 2021, including by traveling to washington d.c., with paramilitary gear and supplies. including firearms, tactical vest with plates, helmets and radio equipment. moments after the attack, mr. roads gathered approximately 100 feet from the capitol with the oath keepers members who had just reached the building. subpoenas were issued to the first amendment pretoria. an organization involved with multiple rallies leading up to the january 6th and its chairman, robert patrick lewis, on january six robert patrick lewis tweeted, today is the day the true battles began. the committee states that louis claims to be involved with war gaming to continue efforts to overturn the election results. today, a federal court in charlotte for, mid-janiah delivered a 25 million dollar civil verdict against 20 for nazi use and white supremacists, or organize the deadly rally in 2017 the killed heather hire, i love more than 15 others wounded. a federal jury found those organizers liable for the violence of those events. tonight's, lawyers for the winning plaintiffs of the case, discuss the case with rachel meadow. we >> the jury saw, and hopefully the country saw the truth about these people did, and who they are, and what they believe, and how incredibly dangerous it is to our society, to our civil society. this was four weeks of hearing about mein kampf, and hitler, and the at no-scape, and race war. and we persuaded the jury of the truth, which is that these guys planned based on their hateful beliefs, to come and commit violence against racial and religious minorities, and then they celebrated it. >> leading off our discussion, paul butler at virginia university, he's an msnbc legal analyst, and ruth book senior leader -- correspondent for slate.com. delia, you've been covering that charlottesville trial quote sly, what is your reaction to this 25 million dollar verdicts? we >> i was moved, i think we are beginning to doubt, lawrence, that anyone was ever going to hold these folks to account, i think there is the theme that you just really forget that it's all funny and it's all games, and it's wargames, and it's nothing. and it's comedy. and you can't make anything stick, and it was just profoundly, profoundly moving to see a jury say. you know what? it wasn't funny, nazism isn't cool, you can call yourselves the all right, but you're still nazis. and by the way you almost $26 million. and i think, for my purposes, having waited for four years to see you some kind of vindication. this is a really really powerful signal that sometimes, sometimes, you get to really tag them for what they did. and paul butler, this is a novel piece of civil litigation. we haven't really seen this approach to this. what is it going to mean going forward? >> you know, lawrence, in the era of black lives matter, there's so much attention to high profile cases involving police, when they're on trial for shooting unarmed african americans. but, this case actually has more potential for racial justice. criminal trials are poor instruments of social transformation, we are about holding individual wrongdoers to justice. but this is called impact litigation, and in this case, it has the potential to bankrupt some of the worst nazi and why ceramicist, and anti-semitic organizations in this country. >> we dahlia lithwick, i assume they could use gofundme and other devices to try to pay these judgments, or get out from under this potential bankruptcy. but 25, $26 million is an awful lot of money. it sounds like these judgments are going to follow these people are around for a very long time. >> i mean, to be fair, some of them are already bankrupt. richard spencer has already said this child has wrecked his life. there are others who are absolutely, if they find money, if they rile round in the not seek out corruption, and they find the money. that will all go to the plaintiffs who are very deserving of it. but i think the larger point is, this trial is meant to really surface and smoke out the interactions between these groups, the funding sources, the planning. all of that, absent the money judgment, has been really serviced. as i said, none of them look cool, none of them look glamorous, they just look like a bunch of losers. and if they can escape the cash to pay that judgment, awesome, but even if they don't, they still just look like losers. >> paul butler, what do you make of the subpoenas issued today by the january six committee, they seem to be, now, working out what's been found by the prosecutors of the attack. >> you know lawrence, it's kind of wood dahlia lithwick just said. these will -- relationships between these groups, finding money sources, it's starting to look like everybody knew that a violent insurrection was going to happen on january 6th, except the capitol police. on december 12th, the leader of the oath keepers said, if trump didn't invoke the insurrection act, they would now a much more bloody war. and this weird, shadowy, first amendment rights doria, on january 4th they said violence is imminence, then its leader said the members of the group were going to have to make some very tough choices on january 6th. and the line soldiers, if you will, have been held accountable, 34 proud boys and indicted, 18 oath keepers. but now the leaders of these organizations will have to come clean, or take the fifth. >> we and dahlia, when you have that many defendants within a group, invariably the prosecutors get some cooperation from some of them. >> yeah, and one of the real lessons, and at least i looked took from charlottesville, is that the minute you put the defendants on the hook, they really are kind of -- with they go after each other, they turn on each other. there is not a ton of loyalty here, there isn't's instinct for self preservation. so i think we're already seeing that both in reference to january six, we certainly saw happen in charlottesville. where there is not a tremendous amount of honor among thieves here. everybody, at the end of the day, wants to save their skin, and that only really writedowns to the benefit, in this case of the, committee. >> dahlia lithwick, thank you very much forgot to start the charlottesville trial on this program. we really appreciate it. and paul butler, thank you as always for joining us with your legal guidance, we really appreciate it. >> and joining us now is, noah goldberg, a court reporter for the new york daily news, he has covered the trial of brendan hunt, who was sentenced to 19 months in prison, for posting a video threatening to kill. speaker nancy pelosi, senator chuck schumer, and congresswoman alexandra ocasio-cortez. he's already served ten months in prison, as nine months left to serving his sentence. noah, thank you very much for joining us tonight. one of the really peculiar biographical facts about this particular defendant, is that his father is a judge, was there is a judge in brooklyn court. >> yeah, hit thanks for having me, his dad was a judge in family court out in queens, actually. not the only new york city judge to have access to the gym six, capitol riots. as was also the son of the brooklyn judge, who is at the capitol that day. and, you know, his father, brendan hunt's father actually came in to the case a little bit, because text messages were revealed during the case between funds and his father, which revealed hunts more unsavory beliefs and racist beliefs. he referred to immigrants as low iq mongol oils. he called new york to york city and some of those text this father, we had a pretty intense relationship with. his father did come to the trial into this and saying. to support his trial. we >> these threats were made from his home, in new york city, and the trial was in new york city. he never went to washington to bring these threats closer to the people he was threatening. >> right, and his lawyers definitely stress not a lot. he never went to the capitol riots, they say he had no one wanted to take into the capitol riots, he didn't have any weapons is something that they really stress, he posted the video two days after the capitol riot. it's not the video about aoc and schumer, this one is just a more broad's killer senators slaughter them all. he talked about sprain bullets at congress members. so, yeah, he never actually made it down, but with the inauguration coming up on january 20th, i think there was a sense that this threat, even though they didn't know if he had weapons, they want to get it before anything worse happened. >> so the guy who couldn't get a ride down to washington on january six is now sentenced 18 months? >> yeah. and he already served ten, and while he was in jail at brooklyn's metropolitan detention center, he was a cell night of roberts sylvester kelly, who is awaiting trial for sex trafficking, and hunters actually musician himself, so he and r. kelly became kind of unlikely friends. at brooklyn federal jail. and his lawyer told me, hunts lawyer told me that when r. kelly saying, it was like hunt wasn't even jail anymore. so, it wasn't all bad times there, but he also said he was targeted and beaten by jail guards, i was not having a great time. so they hope that he would get time served, and be released out of there for the tendency already served. but the judge actually decided he needs a little bit more time, so we get another nine months, and she says that he has to learn to grow up, because he's not a child. he's 37 years old, and will see. >> i did not see the r. kelly chapter of this story, coming, noah goldberg, thank you very much for joining us tonight, really appreciate. >> thanks for having me, lawrence. >> and coming up, to trump fanatics, lied in court about election fraud in 2020, and now they are facing swift and severe penalties from a judge. and, the trump fanatic is running to be michigan's top election official. since someone who's lied about election fraud in 2020, and of course that person is now endorsed by donald trump. we michigan's top election official jocelyn benson, will join us next. al jocelyn benson, wil join us next from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. 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voting systems. the judge wrote, as officers of the court, these attorneys have a higher duty and calling that requires meaningful investigation before prematurely repeating in court pleadings, unverified in an investigated. defamatory rumors to strike the heart of our democratic system, and were used by others to foment a violent insurrection, the threatened our system of government. they need to take responsibility for the misconduct. with >> the republican strategy for future election seems to be avoiding fighting elections in court by taking control, of the counting of the votes. a fanatical supporter of donald trump's big lie about the 2020 election, christina karamo is running to become michigan secretary of state in extreme's election, she has, she's not only claim that donald trump won michigan last year, a state that donald trump lost by 154,188 votes, but she has also said that the january 6th attack on the capitol was carried out by quote, antifa posted as trump supporters. now trump has endorsed this pathological trump liar in her campaign for secretary of state, of michigan. and joining us now is michigan's secretary of state, jocelyn benson. thank you very much for joining us tonight, i really appreciate it. i want to begin with why we're seeing today in these civil penalties. civil judgment of 25 million dollar judgment in charlottesville, and now this hundred 87,000 dollar attorney fees basically fine against these lawyers, for bringing one of these crazy, frivolous donald trump type challenges of the election. >> well yes, thanks, first, lawrence for having me. i really appreciate you guys shining these light on is very real threat to democracy. they sent a very important message if you blatantly misuse your authority, and abuse the legal system to manipulate the public into thinking that our elections are anything but safe and secure, you will face consequences. and i think we are going to see and more of this happening, i hope, in the months ahead. otherwise we risk this legal strategy, which is really a pr strategy, becoming more of the norm in the future. we can't have that if we want to safe and secure democracy. >> the state of michigan was one of the defendants, that they were suing, which in effect means that you are one of the defendants. i'm imagining if this is a trump follower who is like the secretary of state in michigan in the future, and this kind of lawsuit came up with, that trump secretary of state simply not fight it? or just let them have their way? >> well, it's important to know that we also have a great attorney general here in michigan as well, who represented the state of michigan, the governor and i, really effectively. and with truth and facts. it's also important to note that in 2020, democracy ultimately prevailed. the will of the peoples protected. because good people on both sides of the aisle did the right thing, and they followed the truth and the facts, and they stood up to the conspiracy theorists. so now it we've seen over the past year is a national coordinated campaign led by conspiracy theorists, that first tried to overturn the results of the last election. now laying the groundwork to potentially overturn the next one. and we're seeing that in michigan, with people seeking to be the states chief election officer, we're seeing out another states as well. so i think we have to look very closely at those seeking to fill these critical roles in the future, because our democracy depends on good people, good people of faith and people fall in the truth, people following the facts and the law, doing the right thing to, protect the will of the people. and not following or furthering a political agenda, or the will of people who are supporting them asking them to do wrong by the people and further their partisan goals instead. >> have you decided about running for reelection yourself next year, which could mean running against trump endorsed candidate who lies against everything that you're campaigning on? >> well, i'm committed to this work, i'm committed to ensuring that these attacks on democracy are unsuccessful, both in 2022 and beyond so i hope to continue serving in this role. i look forward to presenting that really tries to voters, in november 22 and i hope to continue to serve in this role in 2024 where the attacks we saw in 2020 will be back, where the threats will come back in a more strategic even serious way, and will meet people who are experienced in protecting 2020 democracy, back in 2024 to protect against another potential coup or other attacks on our democracy and others. >> michigan secretary of state, joscelyn vincent, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> thank you. coming up, joe biden took action today to respond to gastritis's, congressman ro khanna, joins us next. khanna, joins us next. khanna, joins us next. oh no. for the gifts you won't forget. the mercedes-benz winter event. get a 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jobs since i became president, on january 20th. >> the voters who need to hear that were not listening to joe biden today when he said that, and do not know any of those facts. that is according to a focus group of virginia voters who voted for joe biden for president. and then voted republican in the last governor's election. that focus for virginia swing voters showed that they do not pay close attention to what president biden and the democrats in washington are accomplishing and they do not think that the president is seriously fighting inflation. in an attempt to stop the rising price of gasoline or at least appear to be trying to. today president biden announced that the united states, and five other countries, experience gasoline prices increases will release oil into the marketplace from their strategic reserves. the five countries joining president biden's efforts are the united kingdom, china, india, japan, and south korea. >> the price of gasoline in the wholesale market has fallen by about 10% over the last few weeks. but the price of the pump hasn't budged a penny. in other words, gas supply companies are paying less and making a lot more. they do not seem to be passing it on to consumers at the pump. instead, companies are pocketing the difference as pac. that is unacceptable. that is why high of asked the federal trade commission to consider whether potentially illegal ally competitive behavior in the oil and gas industry is causing higher prices for consumers. >> joining us now is democratic congresswoman, row of california, he's a member of the house oversight committee and the congressional progressive caucus. thank you very much for joining us tonight. really appreciated. >> it's very great to be. on and here we are in this repeated cycle of, i guess, a lot of people possibly even majority people in america believing that the president of the united states controlled the price of gasoline. you have a world wide price increase in gasoline in every country in the world. but somehow the president of the united states is supposed to reverse that. >> you are absolutely right. it's a world oil price that is set largely by opec, the 60% of world oil is presented by them. the president is doing whatever they can. he is called for the largest reserved tap of the strategic reserve, he has shown leadership by getting five other countries to release their reserves that will help and then they say, look, this all country, chevron, exxon, that are making record profit. they need to lower the prices. they need ten vexed -- when oil was 22 bucks a barrel, and now in its 80 bucks they are making the profit. and that is the real problem. >> the european gas prices of course are as they always. our double the american gas prices. and the truth of it in world terms is that gasoline in america has always been cheaper. and cheaper to comparable countries. and there is a dilemma in here for democrats who are interested in environmental policies because of course the higher the gasoline price the better the environmental outcome increase in gasoline prices has always been one theory about better environmental outcomes. >> lawrence, i don't think we have to do that because that does proportionally hurts the working class in the middle class. but what we should do is advance in electric vehicles. invest in renewable energy. and over the medium and long term that will reduce the demand, it will stabilize the price of gas and it will be good for climate. the problem is the last four years there were none of those investment. now president biden with build back better's doing that. and with that in mind, you will actually have long term prices on gas and be good for climate. >> i don't know if you have seen this report from this swing voter focus group in virginia. it is a very narrow slice of the electorate. it is not normal democratic supporters. it is people who can go either way. they went for biden in the presidential election than they want for the republican in the governor's race. and it indicates that those people do not hear these things. they don't hear the things president biden said today. it doesn't matter how quickly he said it, it doesn't matter if it comes up with a clever way of saying it, they do not here, they do not tune into. it and so is there any way in fact to change the poll numbers surrounding these issues if it's about trying to reach people who simply don't pay attention at the stage to what is actually happening? >> first of all, lawrence, i think the president is an extraordinary messenger. so the more he is out there is the voice of the party, and the better. second, we need to acknowledge that people are still frustrated that they are frustrated with higher gas prices, with higher food prices, and that they are frustrated that there is a hiring shortage and people are being able to hire folks to small businesses. and build back better exactly addresses the. it is going to be lower cross than prescription drugs. lower cost than childcare, lowered calls for insurance. it's going to be more money in the pockets of families to pay for groceries. and it's going to be an incentive for people to get back in the workforce with the expenses with the income tax. we just need to keep making that case. and the president needs to make that. case and i think eventually people will see the result. >> congressman, roxana, i appreciate your enthusiasm, and hoping people actually listen. thank you very much for joining us tonight. really appreciated. >> thank, you happy thanksgiving to you and your viewers. >> thank you. coming up, you would think that most americans would simply be thankful to have a normal president again. the memories are short and joe biden's poll numbers are slumping. our next guest, -- has a theory of the case announced in the title of her new piece, for the, biden needs an enemy. that is next. is next hearing is important to living life to the fullest. 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time like every other day of the year for presidential anger and pathological lies. >> as we gather together for thanksgiving, you know some people want to change the name, they don't want to use the term thanksgiving. people have different ideas of why it shouldn't be called thanksgiving. but everybody i know in this room loves the name thanksgiving and we are not changing it. >> today in the glenn tick, they write less than a year ago america was led by a man who governed to please the fox news host tucker carlson and toyed with the idea of imposing martial law. after donald trump, you think that the american people would just enjoy having a normal president who doesn't use his twitter account to threaten neighboring countries or corporations. but they don't. take one look at national polling numbers and we'll see that americans are unhappy with joe biden. according to 5:38, 51.7% of americans disapprove of his job performance. a recent quinnipiac university poll showed that 50% of disapprove of biden's handling of the pandemic and 59% disapprove of his handling of the economy. the remedy for the president slumping poll numbers is proposed in the title of molly john fest article which is, biden needs an enemy. and joining us now is, mulling john fast, contributing lighter, an author of the newsletter cleverly called, wait what? and columnist for the daily beast, an msnbc political analyst. molly, first of all, how is my reading of the title of your newsletter? it is kind of tricky for an anchorman. i think you got it just right. >> okay i thought that was the rhythm of the. >> make your case that biden needs an enemy and what kind of anomie. >> it could be anyone, it could be childhood poverty, they have this tax credit, this childhood tax credit that is very popular and that has taken all of these children out of poverty. it could be fdr used rich people. it could be anything, i think that it's important that it's a narrative that gets out there and that he uses it again and again. you don't want an enemy like with whack the dog. you don't want people to get hurt. you don't want to wear. you want to take down the temperature. but disinformation, misinformation, there is a lot of problems up there. >> you cite a couple of enemies but different presidents use and i guess maybe the most brilliant being, ronald reagan's. you say, ronald reagan put his supporters against the government itself, announcing in the first line of its first inaugural address. government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem. this was ingenious because it allowed reagan to avoid taking responsibility for just about everything, if this administration messed up he could just not along and say i told you so. jonathan, that is possibly the politically most effective enemy of president could've picked. >> yes, that worked very well for reagan. i agree that you need a president to be seen as fighting for something, and often fighting against something. and democrats in particular want their president to be a rich fighter. it doesn't mean it has to be trump, but he doesn't have to be irritating. he doesn't have to be engaged in fist and cups all the time. he can be a healer and a fighter. depending on the venue. but what he is not doing is that he is not being the leader of the democratic party. and they are not doing any brand damage to the republican party. even though they have many opportunities. the conservatives meet in hungary and just like a big fat one over the plate for biden he doesn't swing at. it he doesn't really swing at anything. and he needs to. because his party, which is where most of the erosion, is he didn't have any republican support, it has been among democrats and independents. and many of them want to see him get out of there and do what politicians are supposed to do. mix it up. not fdr didn't just have one enemy. the rich. that was mostly in just a couple of speeches. he always had different targets so sometimes he'd use ridicule and there were these members of congress, they were called the martin biden official, and it was -- where is the mean marjorie greene. leader of the republicans. stigmatizing the opposition is very much part of politics. >> and like in today's situation with these gas prices, the president seems to be blaming the oil companies. the american oil companies. but he doesn't slam dunk, go after them the way i think that jonathan fdr would. have you wrote the book on fdr's first hundred days and he, when it came to, it as i read in your book and, others he would smack right at the big industrials who he thought should be the target. let's listen at the way joe biden talked about gas prices today. and i'm picking up a part of this where he was particularly defensive about. it instead of aggressive towards the oil company. >> it will take time but before long, you should see the price of gas drop where you philip your tank. i also want to briefly address one myth about inflated gas prices, they are not due to environmental messengers. -- it is not raising the price of gas or increase in us of availability. what it is doing, is increasing the availability of jobs. >> molly, i would submit for voters who don't already believe joe biden. voters who are swing voters. who could vote for the republican governor of virginia, or vote for joe biden. i would submit that him saying that is basically a way of saying to those voters, my environmental policies are the problem. that he is facing it in this defensive language that, coming from a politician, is simply not going to believe. and he does have the option instead of smacking the oil companies. >> yes, especially oh pack which is cabal. it is basically completely corrupt away. i do think, i also sort of feel like if you are defending yourself you're a loser. trump was a terrible person, a terrible president, but very good at changing subject. you would never hear, i mean right now the rnc is paying for trump's lawyers. how is biden all over this? and i think that the stakes are so high. jonathan, what are the lessons that you see in previous presidents in addition to what we have mentioned in the way that they have chosen their enemy? and the enemy does not have to be a human being. it can be a force that you are up against. and it can be something that isn't necessarily an individual. >> one that comes to mind is harry truman. who was horribly unpopular. after he became president and, you know, he succeeded roosevelt on his desk. and that he was expected to lose in 1948. he was way behind. and he came out swinging against what he would call, the do nothing congress. now, you know, next year there is a pretty good likelihood that we are going to have a do nothing republican congress that are already the part of dr. no. their unwillingness to do anything on behalf of the american people is just like low hanging fruit. >> where are the line? not just from biden from the whole democratic party. where the party of raising taxes on billionaire. they are the party of lowering taxes on billionaires. more the party on making it easier to vote? they are the party of making it harder to vote. politics is about accentuating the differences, and going after you're opposition. so down to the question who aren't the villains? if you aren't a democrat, the bad guys are republicans. and this is something that democrats, right on down through the democratic national committee, have forgotten that into context sport. >> molly, it seems to me that the president wants the contrast with donald trump. that he doesn't actually attack the other side. >> yes, i think that's right. and i think that he's worried about taking up the temperature and i mean the stakes are very high, right? we are very divided country. with a lot of -- i mean that people in the republican party that are trying to get a national divorce. so yes it is a very scary time, but if biden doesn't do something -- republicans are consolidating power and working on making order for them to lose election, i mean the state houses, the litmus test as well you overturn a election for donald trump? if biden doesn't do this we can end up -- we are already a country who is back fighting, we can end up losing democracy, i think the stakes are very high. >> molly jong-fast, articles in the atlantic. jonathan alter, like you for joining this discussion. really appreciated. >> thank you lawrence. >> and tonight's last word is next and it includes a peek at local tv in montana. a. . new gold bond advanced healing ointment. restore healthy skin, with no sticky feeling. gold bond. champion your skin. as someone who resembles someone else, i appreciate that liberty mutual with no sticky feeling. knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ (naj) at fisher 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