Transcripts For MSNBC The Sunday Show With Jonathan Capehart

peppercorns. you could do a slice of orange, something like that. >> a side of kamala harris -- >> this sunday, build back better is one step closer to the finish line. lawmakers literally jumped for joy on the house floor friday morning, following the passage of the $1.7 trillion infrastructure build back better plan. the cornerstone of the president's agenda. >> this is legislation that creates millions of good paying jobs, gets tax cuts to the middle class, lowers costs, special healthcare costs and child care costs for the middle class and is paid for 100%. this bill is monumental. it is historic. it is transformative, it is bigger than anything we have ever done. >> the bill includes free universal pre-k, caps the cost of day care at 7% of income. it expands child tax credits for a year and allows four weeks of paid family leave. the legislation also extends obamacare subsidies, adds new caps on medicare prescription drug costs and provides $550 billion to combat climate change. despite the progressive initiatives that most americans support, a bumpy road to passage lies ahead in the senate. it needs to make it pass these two folks, senators joe manchin and kyrsten sinema. and manchin has already said he won't support the bill if it includes paid family leave or if it isn't fully paid for as promised. according to the congressional budget office, this bill will add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit over a decade, which the white house disputes, pointing to increased tax revenue. and then there is the senate parliamentarian who still needs to weigh in, it is a complicated and complex process, but i have the perfect guest it talk us through it. ro khanna, congressman ro khanna of california. congressman, thank you for coming to the "the sunday show." >> my pleasure. thank you for having me. >> so we showed the video of the mosh pit there of celebration in the house. were you part of that? >> i wasn't jumping literally, but i was jumping with joy in my heart. i'll tell you why. france had universal preschool since the 1800s. it works. and you know what the biggest benefit of preschool is? it is for the working class and the middle class, the studies show it has the most impact in getting their kids a shot, we're going to do that for first time in the united states. and then on climate, this is the biggest investment in climate this country has ever made. we're going to hit the president's goals with executive actions of climate emissions, carbon emissions by 2030. it's huge. >> paid family leave is in the bill, four weeks of paid family leave, something that senator joe manchin said repeatedly he can't support it. why is it in the house bill if that's the case? >> there are other senators who really wanted in. if you value families, you should be for having people be able to take care of their families. this isn't about politics this is about allowing people to have time to take care of their kids, to take care of their elderly parents and i think other senators are going to really work to get this across the finish line. >> okay, so now it is going over to the senate, this bill, the build back better act passed by the house is not going to be the same when it comes back to the house after the senate gets its hands on it. are there red lines for you that, you know, you won't cross if that senate bill comes over and there are certain provisions in it that you voted for aren't in the bill that comes back from the senate? >> if the bill was significantly diluted on climate, it would give a lot of people pause. i don't expect that to be the case for two reasons. this is the framework the president negotiated, and he's confident it is going to pass the senate. people said, oh, was it going to pass the house? he was right. it passed the house because he negotiated it, i have full confidence it will pass the senate. it is going to be 90% of what we passed. >> let me play you some sound from white house press secretary jen psaki, what she had to say at the briefing on friday? >> this bill, no matter what, everybody supports. universal pre-k, cutting the cost of child care, historic investment in addressing the climate crisis, making sure there is more housing units available, investing, making sure elder care is less expensive. there are disagreements, everybody knows that publicly. but he knows he's not going to get everything he wants in this package. if it is not in there, he'll continue to fight for it. >> if it is not in there, he'll continue to fight for it. that's the president of the united states. if some provisions aren't in the bill that comes back from the senate, will you continue to fight for them? >> absolutely. and one thing i don't understand is the criticism over the process. this is how democracy is supposed to work. we all represent different constituencies, we work, we compromise, you know what the problem is? one side is playing in democracy. the democrats. the republicans refuse to play. >> we're out of time. i'll get you on one more thing in the washington post yesterday, a big story about, you know, democrats worried about whether the president is going to run for re-election and, of course, the story says he will, but here is the key quote that i found interesting. quote, president biden will enjoy strong support from many progressives when he runs for re-election. he will certainly have mine, said congressman ro khanna, democrat, california. this is the key piece, who co-chaired the campaign of senator bernie sanders in 2020. >> i've been very impressed with the president's leadership. he's taken progressive ideals and he's delivering and he's delivering the most possible under the times. he deserves re-election. that's far away. let's first figure out how we're going to deliver for the american people. >> that is a good point. it is far away. congressman ro khanna of california, thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." >> thank you for having me. and joining me now is michigan senator debbie stabenow. senator stabenow, thank you for coming back to "the sunday show." >> absolutely, always great to be with you. >> okay, so the house passed the build back better act. it now goes to your chamber. how confident are you that there won't be too many changes to the bill? >> jonathan, i'm very confident. i'm the overwhelming member of provisions in the bill are supported by all of our caucus. and really this is about putting people first, and continuing what we have been doing ever since the american rescue plan where we made sure that folks could get the vaccines they needed and we could begin to get children back to school safely and pass the biggest tax cut for families, rather than what the republicans did in 2017, which was totally unpaid for. we passed a tax cut that is helping families juggle the costs of families, and lifting children out of poverty. now, the next stop is really to make sure the wealthiest are paying their fair share and turn around and use those funds to lower the costs for their vast majority of americans on the things that have been just out of control. starting with prescription drugs. can you imagine, i mean, being able to say you're not going to pay any more than $35 a month for your insulin, your child or yourself, now people are paying $600, $700 on average, 35 bucks a month and child care, pre-k, being able to help folks go back to work, cap the costs of child care for millions of americans, 7% of their income. not having it be the same price as their mortgage, which is what it is for my daughter and -- but 7% of their income. i could go on and on. this is lowering costs and investing in the future for our kids and our economy. >> so, senator, as you were giving that answer, we put up a graphic there that showed some of the provisions that could be, you know, on the chopping block. key among them is paid family leave. senator manchin has made it very clear from the very beginning that he's not for paid family leave. are you confident that he can be convinced to not chop that out of the bill from -- that is coming over from the house? >> jonathan, here's what i know. whether that is in there or not, and i strongly support it, we're going to lower the costs of child care, we're going to give every 3 and 4-year-old universal pre-k, invest in child nutrition, which is one of the areas i oversee with the agriculture and nutrition and forestry committee, and we're going to continue that tax cut for families with kids. so we're going to make sure that we are investing in children and families. if that is provisions in there, wonderful. if it is not, this is still a very important bill for families. >> let me get your reaction to the story in "the new york times," pretty extraordinary, the headline with back channels to manchin and sinema, pelosi found a path to a deal. this is the key quote, but in the week since their call, mr. manchin expressed an openness to embracing a plan than the one he initially insisted upon and the speaker now says she is confident that the measure approved by the house will re-emerge from the senate mostly in tact. i take it from the responses you have given me so far, you agree with that assessment. >> i do believe this will be mostly -- overwhelmingly in tact. there certainly will be some changes, but, first of all, every one of our caucus voted against the republican tax cut, not paid for, that went to the wealthiest americans back in 2017. we want to write the system, we want the billionaires who enjoyed the roads and all the benefits of the infrastructure bill that we just passed to pay their fair share. large corporations paid their fair share. so we're going to make sure that we are doing that, and everyone supports doing that and we're going to make sure that we're lowering costs for families and make sure we're tackling the climate crisis in a way that is going to create jobs and for me in michigan, pretty exciting. electric vehicles, clean energy manufacturing, doing those things that are going to bring jobs home and then creating the workforce supporting job training, education, the workforce, so that folks can really have a fair shot to make it in our great country. >> and, senator, real fast, for those who say with inflation out there, why are we spending all this money? your response to that? >> this is fully paid for and it is about tackling the costs that people face. whether it is prescription drugs, whether it is the cost of child care, or housing, and frankly, wouldn't it be great not to have to worry about what the oil and gas companies decide to do in terms of gouging us at the pump? buying an electric vehicle with clean energy and it doesn't matter what opec does. it doesn't matter what the oil and gas companies do. let's get about lowering the cost and that's what we're all about. we're going to put people first and lower their costs. >> senator debbie stabenow from the great state of michigan, thank you for coming back to "the sunday show." coming up, the unbelievable or believable trial of kyle rittenhouse who is acquitted on all charges. reverend al sharpton and david henderson join me next to discuss. don't go anywhere. hendsoern join me next to discuss. don't go anywhere. nurse mariyam sabo knows a moment this pure... ...demands a lotion this pure. new gold bond pure moisture lotion. 24-hour hydration. no parabens, dyes, or fragrances. gold bond. champion your skin. ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? 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(gasps) ♪ did it work? only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ spider-man no way home in theaters december 17th oh, man that is wrinkly. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ like, not even just a little wrinkly, that's a whole lot of wrinkly. there are wrinkles on top of wrinkles! how do you even let your clothes get that wrinkled? how?! at least my shoes look good! looking good starts with bounce wrinkleguard. the megasheet designed to help prevent wrinkles in the dryer. we see you. that's why we designed our new no7 pure retinol range. informed by 15 years of scientific research; to target the appearance of dark spots, wrinkles and boost radiance. and formulated to be gentler to skin. in chicago saturday, hundreds of people led by reverend jesse jackson marched peacefully. the verdict was a victory for gun rights supporters whose buoyant celebration is rather surprising, when you remember that two people died in the kenosha shooting. >> kyle rittenhouse is not guilty, my friends. you have a right to defend yourselves. be armed, be dangerous and be moral. >> the nra tweeted out the text of the second amend minutes after the decision was announced and donald trump released a congratulatory statement to rittenhouse, if that's not self-defense, nothing is. whether a vigilante is viewed as radical or righteous is a condition of the skin they're in. joining me now, reverend al sharpton, host of "politics nation" and author of "rise up" and david henderson, civil rights attorney and former prosecutor. thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show" and for being on set. just, reverend, your reaction to madison cawthorn, a member of congress, what he said in the clip we just showed. >> i think it is frightening. when i heard the jury's decision and then the reaction to it, i think what people are forgetting, if you start with the wrong premise, you come to the wrong conclusion. the reason kyle rittenhouse went to kenosha was because there was protests against a young black man shot in the back seven times by police and there was reaction to it. some violence and mostly peaceful. that's why he came with an ar-5, he came to confront protesters. he said to protect property. that was not his, he was not a member of that community. that's why he came. what this verdict does is make people like me that lead protests, that lead marches very concerned now, are people now going to come into our protests and kill people or hurt people and claim self-defense? and it now has been anointed by people like cawthorn and others that say he ought to be a congressional intern, he's a hero, when he in fact aggressively came after a situation that he was opposed to, which was the protests around the shooting by police of jacob blake jr. >> and on that point, i want to play the sound of another republican congressman, matt gaetz, what he had to say about this point of congressional intern. >> he is not guilty. he deserves a not guilty verdict. and i sure hope he gets it, because you know what, kyle rittenhouse probably would make a pretty good congressional intern. we may reach out to him and see if he would be interested in helping the country in additional ways. >> the only reason why i showed that so that people can hear with their own ears, you weren't just being hyperbollic. there are members of congress saying he should be a congressional intern. attorney henderson, i'll play for you another republican member of congress, jim jordan, and his legal analysis. >> look, judge, you all know this, no one could watch that -- if this wasn't self-defense, tell me what self-defense looks like. we know the facts, the truth, due process, the second amendment, this was a good day for the country, those 12 jurors were willing to do this in the right way and follow the facts, follow the truth, follow the law. that was a win for america and for our great system. >> okay. attorney henderson, when he says follow the law this is where the one time i might agree with congressman jordan. when you read the wisconsin law, it makes it really difficult to not find -- difficult to find rittenhouse guilty. isn't the problem the laws, the way they're written, that make us vulnerable? when i say us, the american people, but certainly black people. >> okay, so, jonathan, here is the problem we start talking about the law as it relates to the rittenhouse case. it is not the law on the books, it is the law provided to the jury for them to use in deliberation. the law they had to use during deliberation was actually more forgiving than you would think, with regard to reaching the right results in this case. but here is the problem, it is a structural problem based on the way the case was tried. the prosecutors assume they could prove that rittenhouse's conduct was reckless and assumed this law of self-defense was never going to come up because he's breaking curfew. and he's wrongfully caring the assault rifle and if those two things are true, he doesn't get the instruction on self-defense so you don't have to worry about it. when the judge pulled the rug out from underneath them, the rifle charge was their fault. but with regard to the curfew violation, they couldn't pivot and adjust. what happens, this explains that clip, you have people who don't understand the law of self-defense or actually see how it should have been applied in this scenario. had it been properly applied, can get to a different result. >> i think we need to have federal law on self-defense. when we are upon two or three months from now, the tenth anniverary of trayvon martin, we still have not legislated on a federal level about stand your ground, which is now in many more states. i think this congress needs to define what is self-defense federally, where all 50 states have to deal with it in terms of state law, and things like stand your ground. because we are based on interpretation or in -- with respect to the attorney manipulation, we are in a place where people can legally kill people, whether it is trayvon, or ten years ago or whether we're dealing with today the killing -- or the shooting of jacob blake jr. and then you have a kyle rittenhouse comes in, taking the law into his own hands and doing what he did. >> so, let's pivot then to -- because i was going to ask about the prosecution in this case, because it is sort of like where was the derek chauvin prosecution team for this case? what about ahmaud arbery? how concerned are you that those three guys will get off in the killing of ahmaud arbery? >> i'm not concerned that they're going to get off, jonathan. you always have the possibility of a hung jury. what stands out to me about that trial, i look at it is these lawyers knew how widely publicized the case was, and they chose to keep the case in glynn county. we heard a judge who said there was direct discrimination in the jury selection process, the prosecutors should have done more about that. i know historically all you have to do is give a race-neutral reason. but in 2019, the supreme court said you can do more than that, and you need to challenge some of these old existing laws in georgia in light of that new decision. but that jury makeup, unless the defense lawyers are just completely wrong is an indication you might end up with a hung jury in that case. >> jury makeup is a concern as i said in a city that is 55% black, brunswick, georgia, 11 whites, one black on the jury is a concern. but the family -- the mother was on my show last night, "politics nation," she feels they're going to win. she's given me hope. and the fact that the prosecutor originally didn't want to prosecute the case and then even the governor of the state said that it should be prosecuted. a republican. it means maybe the jury will be fair. i am cautiously optimistic, but cautious. >> last question, real quick, reverend, you've been a part of all of these cases over the years, over two, three decades now. i know you're cautiously optimistic about the arbery cade. but is that what's informing your cautiousness that we might get a verdict that we're hoping for, but most likely we won't? >> absolutely. because you know, given my experience, i sat in many courtrooms saying that if we go by the law, go by logic, we win. and then ended up disappointed. and i had prepared the floyd family that we may not get anything. i was so relieved and elated when we saw that with chauvin, not because it is one side winning as opposed to the other, but the law was upheld. i think we still live in a society where if you're black, you have to be at best cautious. and hope for the best. at best. >> thank you for very much for coming to "the sunday show." >> what the build back better plan could mean for those taking care of loved ones as we mark national family caregiver's month. we'll talk about it on the other side of the break. stay with us. l talk about it onr side of the break. stay with us ♪♪ hi mr. charles. we made you dinner. aww, thank you. ♪♪ super emma just about sleeps in her cape. but when we realized she was battling sensitive skin, aww, thank you. we switched to tide hygienic clean free. it's gentle on her skin, and out cleans our old free detergent. tide hygienic clean free. hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin. november is national family caregiver's month and the build back better social spending bill with its historic changes for older adults and people with disabilities could be a big help for the nearly 53 million americans providing unpaid care. joining me now to discuss is dr. ni cordalai cortay. thank you very much for come to "the sunday show." >> thank you for having me and happy national care giving month. >> so why is the build back better act as passed by the house such a big deal and particularly given that this is national family caregiver's month? >> well, really the build back better act should be thought of as the love thy neighbor act. there is so much in the bill that really is about showing up for our families, showing up for our neighbors, yesterday was my mother's 68th birthday and she is a cancer survivor. happy birthday, mom. and, you know, i remember being a long distance caregiver to my mom as she was recovering from surgery and getting back on her feet. i had the flexibility to show up for her in ways she had shown up for me over the years. but too many americans don't have that. that's why paid family leave is going to make a material difference in the lives of people across the country. four weeks is essential. and i hope that when the final bill is revealed that it is in there. >> i'm looking in my phone here because i took notes during a conversation that we had and you had a very interesting observation about the number of people who are caregivers in healthcare. i think you said that the largest part of healthcare is this piece, the folks are caring for their families. >> that's right. there are over 50 million caregiver families across the country. they are the backbone of our care system. and it is time that we provide the respite they need in order to show up for their loved ones. if you're african american, latino, asian pacific islander, you typically have higher out of pocket costs to support your loved one that you're giving care to. so, you know, balancing work with caring for a loved one isn't easy. and that's why paid family leave is, i think, going to provide needed relief, much needed relief to americans across the country. >> you know, i -- as you've been speaking, we have been showing graphics and i can't remember if we put up the cutbacks made by caregivers because, you know, they're making choices. this is element three. you can see there, more than half are cutting back on vacations and take-out. but more importantly, you see a quarter of folks are cutting back on doctor's visits, cutting back on groceries, personal supplies, medicines, this has a domino effect. so build back better and particularly the provisions for caregivers is essential. >> it is essential, and, you know, i also would be remiss if i didn't mention that, you know, lgbtq caregivers also benefit from this. i think oftentimes we think about lgbtq issues as limited to marriage or, you know, some other very specific issue. but the average lgbtq caregiver is about 42 years old. and we need to make sure that we also have nondiscrimination protections that make it into this bill. we want every american to benefit from all the provisions that is in what i like to think of as the love thy neighbor bill. >> i like that framing. the love thy neighbor bill. and also pointing out that lgbtq caregivers are out there. we get old. i think folks look at the lgbtq community and we're forever young, but i've got the gray hair here to prove that that is not the case. thank you very, very much for coming to "the sunday show." >> thank you, jonathan. >> happy thanksgiving. coming up, my interview with soledad o'brien about her new hbo docu-series, black and missing. that's next. es, black and missing. that's next. ♪♪feel like throwing my worries away♪♪ ♪♪as an old native-born californian would say♪♪ ♪♪it's a most unusual day♪♪ ♪♪it's a most unusual sky♪♪ ♪♪not a sign of a cloud passing by♪♪ ♪♪if my heart won't behave in the usual way♪♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list event. 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(woman) yeah, y-you did. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ (tiger) this is the dimension of imagination. ♪ ♪ - oh...oh. - what's going on? - oh, darn! - let me help. lift and push and push! there... it's up there. hey joshie... wrinkles send the wrong message. help prevent them with downy wrinkleguard. feel the difference with downy. ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ people of color in the u.s. african americans remain missing four times longer than white americans. >> that must be number is alarming. >> the police is turning us away, the media wouldn't respond. >> looking for my missing daughter. >> it drove me and my sister-in-law natalie to do something about it, to help the other families. because if not us, who? >> the docu-series starts tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. that's not the right thing. more than half a million people went missing last year, and nearly 40% were people of color. the new hbo series follows the founders of the foundation, sisters in-law derrickia and natalie wilson. i recently had a chance to talk with an executive producer of the series, the great soledad o'brien. soledad, so great to see you. welcome back to "the sunday show." >> thank you, jonathan. appreciate that. this is an important story. you covered it in different ways in your long career as a journalist and me too, right? >> right. and so the first question is, because we played the clip of derrickia and natalie wilson, how did you learn about them? how did you meet them? >> do you know, i learned about them through black press, actually at first. because they would get accolades and award, black girls rock featured them one year. in terms of mainstream media, they flew under the radar. i think they frequently became the voice of there is so much attention to this missing, deservedly, attention to a white girl who is missing, but, boy, we have all these other young women of color who are missing too, why does no one really care about their disappearance? and i think people began to really as they started looking into disparities in this kind of thing, willing to look at the work they're doing. >> talking about the media disparity in covering stories of missing black and brown women, let's put up on the screen why the components to why there is this disparity in the media coverage. you see it there, runaways, a lot of minority children are initially classified as runaways, criminals, missing minority adults are labeled as associated with criminal involvement, gangs and drugs, and desensitization is believed that missing minorities live in impoverished conditions and crime is a regular part of their lives. these three things are just -- they're painful to read, and yet as members of the media, you and i both know that all three of those play a toxic mix in why we rarely hear about missing black and brown women and girls. >> i'll add to that list this concept that black women are more -- black girls are more mature, or seem to be, considered to be more mature than their actual chronological age. somehow a black girl who is 13, she's experienced and wise beyond her years. it has been interesting to me to hear people say, well, you know, she's a runaway. right, but also, 15. so still missing and someone should be looking for this literal child who most probably needs some kind of help. >> and it is not just the media that doesn't take a missing black child into consideration, it is also law enforcement. i want to play this clip from the docu-series of a mom talking about her interaction with police. >> the police was, like, how do you know she didn't just leave? >> the detective kept saying she ran away. >> i'm, like, she didn't run away. it was like a punch in the face. >> when a black person is in distress, missing, it is not a big deal to law enforcement. because they don't think we have much to lose. >> and that right there, that's a punch in the gut too. it is not only that the media doesn't take it seriously, but the very people these families depend on to find their missing loved ones don't take it seriously from the outset either. >> yeah, i think it was really the mission of the black and missing foundation, which is who we really profile, right? derrickia and natalie decided their expertise in pr and their expertise in law enforcement would allow them to be a better conduit so they could help law enforcement take these cases more seriously, and also they could help the families in a lot of ways present the cases better as you know well there is a certain requirement for doing live shots on tv, there is something to be able to know who to call if you have an issue. and so it has been pretty interesting to me to see on both sides, they felt they could help families pull it together. you need a flyer, a picture, you need the kind of picture that the media is going to want to run. you need to think about the narrative in order to get someone to follow your story and you also really need to stay on law enforcement to make sure that the ball isn't dropped. i think what they have done is utterly heroic and we were so honored over the last three years they let us tell their story of their truly tireless work that they do in trying to say, successfully in many cases, young black women, sometimes young men who are missing. >> wow, over three years. and some of that, you're a expert in media, you're a veteran reporter. did you learn anything you didn't already know as a result of working on this docu-series? >> yeah, i think the main thing was both natalie and derrickia would tell you that the community also has a responsibility. the community also has to care about their girls who go missing. and when it is the media and law enforcement and the community come together, to care, then it is actually a system that can work. but the community also has to be very involved. as you know, it is a bit of a circle there, right? the more the media cares about something, the more pressure you can put on law enforcement, the more the media cares about something, the more the community knows about the story and also cares. but all of those things have to work together. i was interested in seeing that they -- they weren't just condemning the media, and not even just condemning law enforcement, they were saying that we need a system that values these young women so that we can be better at getting in and helping save them. everybody cares about their lives. >> the name of the hbo docu-series is black and missing. its producer is right there before you, soledad o'brien. thank you so much for bringing this to our attention and for coming back to "the sunday show." >> my pleasure. thanks for having me. the docu-series "black and missing" premieres tuesday on hbo at 8:00 p.m. also, we would like to recognize that yesterday, november 20th, was transgender day of remembrance, honoring those whose lives have been lost to violence, at least 46 in the united states, as president biden said in a statement yesterday, quote, each of these lives was precious. each of them deserved freedom, joy and justice. coming up, actor and activist wilson cruz is here to tell me the way he sees it. you don't want to miss this. on't s bipolar depression. it made me feel like i was trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place... ...and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. elderly dementia patients on latuda have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, as these may be life threatening... ...or uncontrollable muscle movements, as these may be permanent. these are not all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor about latuda and pay as little as $0 for your first prescription. alice loves the scent of gain so much, she wished there was a way to make it last longer. say hello to your fairy godmother alice and long-lasting gain scent beads. try spring daydream, now part of our irresistible scent collection. now part of our irresistible scent collection. oh, there you are. you know cath, with chase freedom unlimited we can cashback on all our holiday shopping. earn 3% at drugstores! i'll be at checkout. you bring the card. wait - i'm paying again?! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? 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>> first of all, let's acknowledge the fact that this issue is a made up issue. it's an attempt to politicize our educational system for political gain and our students are being used as pawns in my opinion. you know, the way that we teach our -- what we're really talking about here is the teaching of our history. the story of our country. how we came to be who we are. but it's also -- you know, we are also -- history is also a mirror and a window for our students. a mirror for our students of color to see themselves and know how they are part of the fabric of how this nation was created, how we got to this point but also a window for our white students to have some empathy and understanding about our lives and how we walk through the world. and we also know that when we have a more inclusive curriculum, that students' gpas go up. there is less depression. those students are less likely to drop out, will show up to school and have less complaints of feeling unsafe. so my concern is that we continue to perpetuate these -- continue to perpetuate white supremacy and my goal in my life has always been to make sure that we see more of us, that our young people understand that they are valued and that the only way that they're going to fulfill their complete potential is to know where we came from so they can take us where we, our country deserve to go. >> right. you know, we've got states around the country and school districts trying to ban books. north dakota where, you know, my husband's family lives and where he's from, they just instituted something like that. what are people so afraid of? why are folks so afraid of an accurate telling of our story? why are they so afraid that they're willing to ban books, burn books, protest against a truthful, more honest telling of our history? >> you know, i think the word that you're using, afraid, is the right word. this isn't about hate. this is about fear, a fear of the unknown. the only way to get beyond the fear of the unknown is to acknowledge, right? that's what our schools are for. i think there is a fear that our population is changing clearly right in front of our eyes and there is a backlash and a fear about what that means for those who have been in power for so long already. and instead of finding ways to learn how to share that power and to perhaps grow into a country that we've been all talking about, you know, the making of a perfect union since the moment this country was created, so part of the process of creating that perfect union is to actually see each other for who we actually are. >> right. >> the history of how we actually got here, the truth about it. there's nothing to fear about the truth. we've heard that. who did we hear that from? so i think it's -- i think it literally is fear of a loss of power and a fear of the other. >> wilson, we have to go but you know what i'm going to do? i'm going to invite you back so you can be part of a larger political panel. that will be fun. wilson cruz, thank you very much. >> i love you. >> you, too. coming up in our next hour, how the gop this week rallied for congressman gosar, paul gosar and kyle rittenhouse setting a lobar even for them. plus my all-star panel sounding off to topics from build back better to consumer spending and something you didn't know vice president harris could help you with for thanksgiving. >> if you have time to do a wet brine, that's fine. do a pot of water, couple bay leaves, sugar, couple peppercorns. you could do a slice of orange, something like that. everything felt like a 'no'. everything. but then ray went from no to know. with freestyle libre 2, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to. and... when he wants to. so ray... can be ray. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us ♪♪ this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to know you have a wealth plan that covers everything that's important to you. this is what it's like to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. making sure you have the right balance of risk and reward. and helping you plan for future generations. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. 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this is so antithetical to everything the republican believes. madison cawthorns and marjorie taylor greene, this is an embarrassment but a frightening example of what happens when there are no consequences for bad behavior. what the hell is kevin mccarthy doing going up there and giving these speeches for hours on end, defending paul gosar, another example of glorifying violence, and then you have these members of congress who are out here with no consequence whatsoever inciting and rationalizing violence. this is insanity and what happens when you do not push back and do not demonstrate that this is not only immoral but is undemocratic, you are going to perpetuate this even more so. this kid is not someone to be lionized. he killed people. now he's being hailed as a hero and the gun owners of america are giving him an ar-15 as an award for standing up for self-defense and gun rights. no, he's not. he's a disgrace. for all lawful gun owners like myself and my household, this is not what gun ownership represents. it doesn't glorify vigilanteism. what are we doing? they are unserious people and need to be held accountable for it. >> curt, your view about, as tara called it, the cacophony of kookerie. >> the line between them and kevin mccarthy is straight. there is no daylight between these people. it used to be you would kind of look at this segment, these are the crazy, we're going to ignore them, mock them behind their back as many of their colleagues used to do but now we see in this new republican party, they are all one and the same. kevin mccarthy's unhinged rant illustrated that from the very top echelon all the way down to the bottom they are all the same. they all believe the same. they are preaching from the same script. >> and you know what, you brought up kevin mccarthy and that speech. eight hours and 32 minutes. let's just give folks a sampling. >> i was in the sixth grade. i turn on the tv. i watch jimmy carter have a sweater on and tell me to turn the heater down. mr. president, come to the grocery store with me. you ever eaten one of these baby carrots? i'll lead you to a little secret. they're just big carrots, they chop them more and they charge you to buy them. there could be members here who didn't want to change their airline ticket and are already in puerto rico because they can vote proxy. maybe they're down there. i don't know. >> you ever eat one of those baby carrots? he thinks he's going to be the next speaker of the house. we both know that this kevin mccarthy that we're seeing now, this reincarnation of some type of huckster, televangelist that's decided to go on the floor, make a spectacle of himself, talking about baby carrots for god's sake, this guy is spineless. he's doing this because he thinks that if he continues to pledge feel at this, and somehow these people are going to vote him in as speaker. no, they're not. donald trump and trumpists and the maga world, they get off on the idea of kevin mccarthy acting this way. this level of sequiesness and then when it comes to get speakership, they're going to under cut him at the knees. i mean, it is so obvious watching this train wreck. unfortunately the bigger picture here about this is that democrats if they don't get it together, they are going to be sitting back in 2023 going how the hell did we end up with jim jordan as speaker of the house. >> oh, my god. oh, my god. >> i'm keeping it 100. >> curt, could that actually happen? speaker jim jordan? >> yeah, it can and i agree with tara. i think it probably will. here's the thing about donald trump. i don't understand why they haven't thrown this out yet. the relationship always ends the same. it ends with them taking a big dump on their head, rolling them over with a car. ask his former lawyer michael cohen. ask mitch mcconnell. the story always ends the same. loyalty is a one-way street and for those debasing themselves the way kevin mccarthy is, if you think there's a prize at the end of this road for you, buddy, there isn't? back when tara was talking about, i remember covering kevin mccarthy in bakersfield. he was running as a moderate. he was going to be arnold schwarzenegger's best friend. he was running to move the party to the middle. that version would not recognize the person we've seen. it just tells you that kevin mccarthy stands for nothing. he means nothing. he has no conviction, no compass. whatever he wants. and his caucus knows that. they know he's pretending. they know he's posing. that's why they are never going to make him speaker of the house. >> i'm sorry. oh, my god, the jim jordan thing has just blown my mind. i want to put -- in the time we have left, i want to put up this call from the des moines register that i actually thought was really interesting. here's the question. when it comes to the events on january 6th, which of the following best reflects your thoughts. remember, this is iowa, a red state. it was an insurrection and a threat to democracy. 50%. am i right given everything that we've seen from the republican party, both here in washington and around the country that that 50% mark is high, and i say i'm grateful to see that it is at 50%. curt? >> i mean, i look at that and i think to myself, how could that number not be 100% honestly given what we've seen, the video evidence. >> it should be but, yeah. >> no, i hear what you're saying and, again, i think this shows the danger, the real danger right now that democracy has. the opinion can permeate that january 6th was anything but a terrorist act, insurrection, violent mayhem, that the people were anything but domestic terrorists than heroes propped up. the mainstreaming and the idea the most productive way to exercise your political disagreements is to show up armed and dangerous with an ar 15 is only going to perpetuate more. let me tell you something. the next time we have a shooting of some kind at a political event, it's going to happen, blood will be on the hands of these republican party members who are out there advocating, propping up these people. making kyle rittenhouse their freaking mascot, blood will be on their hands. >> it already is. >> oh, we're going to leave it right there. curt and tara, thank you both very, very much for coming back to "the sunday show." coming up, the january 6th investigation presses forward even with steve bannon's delay. we're joined next to discuss. #1n #1 for psoriasis symptom relief and #1 for eczema symptom relief. gold bond. champion your skin. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. gold bond. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? 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is he overstating the importance of what merrick garland did? or am i reading this right that actually that was a big move by the attorney general? >> i don't think he's over stating it, jonathan. there's a lot of legal concepts here. the first one is this notion of executive privilege. i want to be clear for our viewers what that is. bannon, trump and others are saying basically we are afraid to go and tell the american people what happened under oath even though this investigation is one of the most important in our history. and they're saying this privilege, which is extended to presidents, sitting presidents when they have sensitive like foreign affairs discussions with foreign governments, that that is being used now to cover up basically what happened on january 6th and it's an absurd claim but that's what's being lit at this gated in the courts. what you just heard bob woodward say is, well, garland had two choices. he could have just indicted himself, the justice department, or he could have used a grand jury because the fifth amendment says no person shall be held for a capital or otherwise infamous crime except on indictment to the grand jury. that's almost exactly the text. what the supreme court has said, if that's a misdemeanor charge, you don't need a grand jury. that's what these two offenses are. what merrick garland did, he said it's kind of an infamous crime. i'm going to get the seal of approval of a grand jury to do this. he didn't have to do that to go after bannon but he did. woodward is right to say that discretionary act is a sign of confidence in his case. it gets the grand jury of one's peers to decide the case. the fact that merrick garland is a deep stater is ridiculous. it's the peers of bannon saying you should be indicted. >> and so then -- okay. so you have a grand jury. have i watched too many "law&order" episodes to know once you have a grand jury impaneled, can't they keep going? can't they keep looking into things? is this something where we're going to see the attorney general go back to this same grand jury for a whole lot of other people involved in the january 6th select committee's investigation? >> that's exactly right. so mark meadows or someone else tries to defy congress, they can use this grand jury until it expires and meanwhile bannon's criminal case will be unfolding in federal criminal court. it's been 38 years since someone has been charged with contempt of congress because normally people just turn over the evidence and tell the truth. here you've got trump and the defiers saying it. this is going to be a long process. it could be 70 days to an actual criminal trial but bannon and trump are going to delay it, delay it even longer than a taylor swift song and far less enjoyable. so there will be a fight over executive privilege first and so on. i very much hope merrick garland and the justice department move for expedition of that. and then, you know, can someone like bannon refuse to tell the truth about one of the most important investigations? or is there a remedy? >> and real fast, in 30 seconds, former chief of staff mark meadows, what do you think is going to happen to him? is he going to keep defying the subpoena? will the committee act, do you think? >> absolutely. i think that he is in kind of a kiss up parade with steve bannon. meadows actually went by the podcast hosted by steve bannon just this past week saying donald trump, not kevin mccarthy, should be the speaker. these guys have all fallen in line behind the coverup and refusal to tell the truth orchestrated by donald trump. fortunately there is a legal remedy. it is going to take time but there is one. >> neil katia, former acting solicitor general of the united states. thank you very, very much for this tutorial. i really appreciate it. coming up on "the sunday show" talking turkey with and to the vice president of the united states, but first my all-star panel is ready to sound off on everything from the rittenhouse trial to inflation. keep it right here. yardwork... teamwork... long walks.... that's how you du more, with dupixent, which helps prevent asthma attacks. dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems. it's an add-on-treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma that can improve lung function for better breathing in as little as two weeks. and can reduce, or even eliminate, oral steroids. and here's something important. dupixent can cause serious allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. get help right away if you have rash, shortness of breath, chest pain, tingling or numbness in your limbs. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection, and don't change or stop your asthma treatments, including steroids, without talking to your doctor. are you ready to du more with less asthma? 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>> you know, that's a really good question. i would like to point out with gosar, he was censured and matt gaetz is under investigation for sex trafficking by the fbi and that's the kind of people we're talking about here. there's a couple ways i look at this is that, one, you saw other members commenting. jim jordan commented on this. talking about the second amendment issue and they're trying to -- that there's a number of conservatives trying to wrap themselves -- this is a second amendment issue. this is a right to protect yourselves -- arm yourself and protect yourself. they're talking about blm here. this was a protest over the shooting of an unarmed black man. that's where this rittenhouse case started. he wasn't even -- he's not even from the state where this happened. so i think it's -- they're trying to -- they're trying to use it as a second amendment issue. the other issue that doesn't get enough -- people aren't talking about it enough, this is about power in wisconsin and wisconsin is a critical state in 2022. got a senate race in there. we don't know if ron johnson is running again. he praised this decision. and in 2024 it's going to be a swing presidential state. so i think it's -- you know, there's other goals here in this state. it's not only -- it's not only all of the i shall use that we've raised here, but it's the issue of wisconsin and what it means for the country, for the control of the senate and the presidency in 2024. >> brez, going to stick with you on this. because tara setmayer said something at the start of the hour that if you were watching you saw my eyes bug out of my head when we were talking about kevin mccarthy, house minority leader because he's doing things or not doing things because he desperately wants to become speaker of the house and both kurt and tara said he ain't going to be the next speaker of the house. tara said it's going to be jim jordan. you are the guru. tell me, is that even remotely possible? >> there's talk about it, but -- and i've talked to jordan about this. first of all, i disagree entirely. it could very well be mccarthy. it depends on the margin. let's say for instance republicans are probably going to win the house. you look at history, redistricting, biden's poll numbers, they're probably going to win the house. if they pick up for argument's sake, 30 seats, he's going to be speaker. the thing about jordan and if you know jordan, this is part of when you mentioned mark meadows before. mark meadows is pushing trump because he doesn't like mccarthy. that's why he wants jordan in there. so there's some personal bias there. i think if the margin is big enough it will be mccarthy. if it's under 10 seats it probably won't. the thing is jordan doesn't want to do what mccarthy needs to do which nancy pelosi does and other speakers do. you have to travel 150 to 200 days a year to do political events. mccarthy has a lot of chips. he's raised hundreds of millions of dollars. he's got a lot of chips from these members and i think there's a lot of members who think, you know, if kevin mccarthy is in there, i can pretty much do what i want. yeah. so i disagree entirely. i think it depends on the margin. i still think if republicans win mccarthy will probably be speaker. >> brez, the idea of a speaker mccarthy actually had me rooting for speaker jordan -- had me rooting for speaker mccarthy. the panel is going to stick with me because we have to sound off to them other sunday shows. stay right here. ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ want your clothes to smell freshly washed all day without heavy perfumes? 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[szasz] we take care of ourselves constantly; it's important. we walk three to five times a week, a couple miles at a time. - we've both been taking prevagen for a little more than 11 years now. after about 30 days of taking it, we noticed clarity that we didn't notice before. - it's still helping me. i still notice a difference. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. you're not saying whether you are vaccinated. do you want to say now? >> as i said, america, if it's nothing else, it's about liberty. it's about being able to live your life free from the government telling you what to do and so we understand this thing about slippery slopes. the minute that i start telling you about my vaccine status, we're going to be down the bottom of the mountain trying to figure out how we got there because now you want to know what's in my dna. you're going to want to know this, that and the other. >> what's in her dna? more like what's in her coffee cup. you can see why virginia's new governor elect is stirring up controversy. my panel is back, michael, brez, maria-teresa. wait. there's more. lieutenant governor elect winsome sears of virginia, she was asked how slavery should be taught. let's watch. >> but while we're talking about history, how about we talk about how people from the 1890s, black people from the 1890s to about 1950, 1960 according to the u.s. census had been marrying at a percentage had far surpassed what whites had done. when we talk about the tulsa race riots, let's ask ourselves how did the black people amass so much wealth right after the civil war so that it could even be destroyed? how did they do that? you know, they were coming from nothing, from zero. some of them never even got the 40 acres and a mule. >> michael, you know i'm coming to you on this and i just want to put a fact check in there. let's just be clear, no freed slaves got their 40 acres and a mule but, michael, your reaction to the lieutenant governor elect of the commonwealth of virginia. >> well, that's that typical republican talking point of family values, and marriage and family -- a stable christian conservative ideals is what really drives america. it is weird how they figure which part of america in american history they want to celebrate. they want to celebrate the constitution and founding fathers but not the racism part. they acknowledge that our values as far as the second amendment, right? we've always had that ideal in america. it is how we should currently operate, but not the racism part. it doesn't influence us anymore. so this idea of racism. this is what white people have done and brought upon america that they don't want to teach their children about themselves but perpetuating it ensures that it will continue to happen. we see that time and time again. so that hands off remember this sweet romantic idea of an america that never existed is what we see from winsome sears. as far as what's in her dna, it's probably a double helix but i can't confirm that. >> i just want to say that in her response when she talks about the tulsa race riots, how did they amass their wealth so that it could even be destroyed? she just glosses over the fact that, you know, that people destroyed all that stuff because -- well, because racism and white supremacy. maria-teresa, i would love for you to weigh in on this. if not, i could move on to ted cruz. >> oh, no, i think the most dangerous part is she's the lieutenant governor of virginia and she's telling people not to get vaccinated. if the republican party wants people to go back to normal, businesses open, maskless schools and she had the perfect platform to say that, to say that the vaccines help the african-american community, latino community. those are the communities most hess tent. she not only wasted everybody's time but she perpetuated terrible stereotypes. not recognizing what the black experience was, that despite everything they were able to amass wealth and despite everything they were able to lift themselves out of poverty. the offenses keep going on and on. >> we should point out that lieutenant governor winsome sears, as much as we're laughing, we have to take her seriously because in the commonwealth of virginia the governor can only serve one term. i want to play senator ted cruz, what he said today on one of the shows about whether he talked to donald trump on january 6th. we'll talk about it on the other side. >> i had many conversations with him in days and weeks and months leading up to january 6th. i talked to the president sometimes as often as once a week or once a day, but my point is simple. under the constitution congress has a role and has a responsibility when it comes to certifying votes. >> and we should point out that he reportedly and repeatedly told margaret brennan but, brez, the larger question i have is how worried are congressional republicans in the house and senate about the january 6th select committee and how close it is coming to them? >> you know, that's a hard question to answer. kevin mccarthy was asked this week if he's been informed if his electronic records, his email and text has been -- if they have been -- if the select committee has sought to access those, sought to obtain those. he said no, but i know that, you know, the idea -- there's a lot of republicans. the idea of a congressional committee investigating members of congress isinfuriates them. and when they tried to put others to the select committee, pelosi blocked it. i know they're pretty upset about it. the whole thing they're trying to do with the select committee is to wait it out. they're trying to stall and, you know, trying to get it into the courts and stall everything as much as they can and fight over every yard and drag this out figuring if they have the house in january 3rd, 2023, this disappears. this all goes away. the democrats know this is the game so they're trying to speed up things. that betty thompson the chair is trying to move pretty quickly now. i don't think republicans are worried as much that they'll be investigated. i think they're trying -- they're hoping they need to win the political fight over the select committee. this is what they're trying to do to muller and do it again. >> in the two minutes we have left, maria-teresa and michael, i'm only playing this sound bite from marsha blackburn because i'm going to be talking about the subject of the sound bite in my bye line but have a listen. >> senator, is there anything you want to say about kamala harris? she was given the role of acting president when joe biden got his colonoscopy last week. >> yeah. and i think when you look at what she has done, she has failed at every task that she's been given. that's why there are many in the white house so frustrated with her. it's going to be interesting to see who they push forward to take her place. >> michael, this is lunacy and i hesitated to play it but like i said, i'm only playing it because i'm going to be talking about the vice president in the next block. real quickly in the minute we have left, your reaction to the senator from tennessee? >> i think there's this -- that's been the narrative that's been going. i think it's coming to the forefront now. i think the narrative to sideline kamala harris has been going on both the democrat and the republican side. we see it now trying to kind of ease pete buttigieg people and people like amy klobuchar to the forefront. it's something we should be thinking about and paying attention to if nothing else. >> maria-teresa? >> the same thing. they're trying to basically say what did kamala harris do? 93 minutes while she had the presidency. come on, guys. this is all about the sexism and colorism that exists and the moment they start perpetuating it. they're not just dog whistles. it prevents people to self-realize and the possibility that kamala harris could be president, that will be on her merits and how she chooses to campaign, not in 2024 but beyond. this is where we have to be very careful on how w report it. we do a lot of media moderating on what's happening on facebook. the stuff out there, how how misogynistic and racist on kamala harris is unbelievable. you have to be careful you don't kill political careers before it starts. >> exactly. maria-teresa, michael, brez, thank you very much. coming up, the vice president like you've never seen her before and why it could be the recipe for her success. my bye line is next. want your clothes to smell freshly washed all day without heavy perfumes? try new downy light in-wash scent beads. it has long-lasting light scent, no heavy perfumes, and no dyes. finally, a light scent that lasts all day. new downy light! with relapsing forms of ms... there's a lot to deal with. not just unpredictable relapses. all these other things too. it can all add up. kesimpta is a once-monthly at-home injection... that may help you put these rms challenges in their place. kesimpta was proven superior at reducing the rate of relapses, active lesions, and slowing disability progression vs aubagio. don't take kesimpta if you have hepatitis b, and tell your doctor if you have had it, as it could come back. kesimpta can cause serious side effects, including infections. while no cases of pml were reported in rms clinical trials, it could happen. tell your doctor if you had or plan to have vaccines, or if you are or plan to become pregnant. kesimpta may cause a decrease in some types of antibodies. the most common side effects are upper respiratory tract infection, headache, and injection reactions. ready for an at-home treatment with dramatic results? 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she'll tell me if i'm annoying her. hey, how are you doing? hi. okay. so nick, if you're doing -- okay. nick, but a dry brine is easier, and do it -- brine for 24 but 48 hours is best if you have the time. are you getting a fresh turkey? >> yeah, it's being delivered tomorrow. >> one minute. i have one minute. kosher salt, fresh ground pepper, maybe chop up a little thyme. and just you can mix it even -- okay, so do the salt and pepper all over it, like just lather that baby up. on the outside, in the cavity. you can also chop up -- not with the thyme, just the salt and pepper. you can do thyme, rosemary, under the skin with some butter. before you're going to cook it. >> uh-huh. >> so that butter will just melt in there. and then get a nice big bottle of cheap white wine to baste with butter. yes, hi. >> i recorded harris simply because i'm not a cook. so i wanted nick to hear directly from her what she said. and i'm glad i did. for in that clip, we see a person speaking with passion about something she loves. it was a human moment. and it is that kamala harris that gets obscured by beltway back biting and negative agendas that have everything to do with shu thwarting who she could become. that isn't to say there isn't some truth to some of the stories utharris' staff. my own reporting bears this out. the vice president's shop needs to get it together so she can be successful in the job she has now. she has great instincts. if she's ever to exercise presidential pour in her own right, she and her staff must start following them, leaning into them for the good of the president and their shared mission. the sooner harris and her staff do that, the more successful she will be. and i and millions of other americans will be thankful for it. i'm jonathan cape hart, have a great thanksgiving. this has been the sunday show. 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