or rather deny, that trump wants her to delay her own order while she is appealing. at the end, she says, the court will not effectively ignore his own reasoning in denying injunctive relief in the first place to grant injunctive relief and now. so her opinion as we know is so solid that it left no room for this kind of thing, but of course, it is a motion that the trump lawyers have to go to. they will now tried to rush an emergency, requests did to the circus court of appeal. and tried to stop this before friday. >> i mean, what is important about it is the timing. unless something else happens. those documents will move from the national archives and records of administration over to the january six investigation on friday. this court is going to be no help to trump in terms of trying to stop that from happening. he will go to the next court up, it will go to the d.c. circuit court to try and get their help in having a happening. but they will have to act with -- or ultimately whether or not they will side with him, but this is the process now. by definition, it has to go fast. >> yes, she says that she is aware that they will go to the circuit court of appeals. and that she expects that the circuit court of appeals will expedite the case. but she sees no reason as to why they will grant some kind of injunction against releasing the material now because, as she keeps repeating, the chances of success in the trump argument, she sees, as basically zero. >> that will be for the next court to decide. we don't know what panel of judges from that court is going to hurt, it's pretty diverse court in terms of the park in the days and ideological location of all of those judges. but, trump hasn't won anything yet in his effort to enlist the court to run this investigation. he has lost everything that he has asked. there is no indication that that is going to change because he does seem sort of playing around with the law. but anything is possible. that is why it is called the news. it is new every day. >> and thanks to judge chutkan, we are now seeing that yes, the federal courts in washington can actually move with real speed when this kind of urgency is involved. >> yes, and when they want to. >> yes, when they want to. exactly. >> thanks lawrence. >> thank you rachel. that is our breaking news at the beginning of this hour tonight. that is the federal judge, she has denied a second motion from donald trump to block the release of white house records sought by the house select committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol. judge chutkan wrote in her order, the court will not effectively ignore its own reasoning in denying injunctive relief in the first place to grant injunctive relief now. i have now just been handed her six-page opinion, which i will be reading during the next commercial break. paul and i are going to discuss this, we will get his reading of this. he will have time to read this. we are also covering what is happening in the prosecution of the people who attacked the capitol. and earlier today, a federal judge gave the longest a sentence, the longest sentence yet, to a defendant pleading guilty to attacking the capitol on january six. and the prosecutors are now asking for an even longer sentence for the person who they are calling, in their legal mumbles, quote, the public face of the capitol riot. that is jacob chansley, he is one of 120 defendants who have already pleaded guilty. a total of approximately 675 defendants have been charged in the attack on the capital. jacob chansley's lawyer, in a sentencing memo, told the judge, that he has quote mental health vulnerabilities. the lawyer asked the judge to quote, imposes sentence significantly below the range of sentencing recommended under the federal sentencing guidelines. jacob chansley's lawyer, some of his clients inability to distinguish fact from fiction. in his sentencing memo, to the judge, the lawyer actually quoted a line from eric roth's screenplay, forrest gump. in which, the title character says, my momma always said, you've got to put the past behind you before you can move on. the words of hollywood screen writers are not likely to be effective in a real courtroom. prosecutors are asking for the maximum sentence of four years and three months. this is for jacob chansley. that is ten months more than the sentence scott received today. he is the first defendant to plead guilty to assaulting a police officer, the judge sentenced him to 41 months in prison. followed by, three years of probation, got climb to the capital on the fairgrounds. used to police baton, and broke through police lines to enter the capital building, and punched a police officer. , scott fairlamb, whose brother is a secret service agent, told the judge that he has brought shame upon his family and completely irresponsibly, reckless, behavior. he said, quote, i take full responsibility. and he asked the judge to, quote, show some mercy. judge rice lambert, who was appointed by ronald reagan in 1987 responded to his requests for mercy in this way. >> you were part of the overall circumstances that led to the obstruction and inability of congress, the inability of the electoral college to go forward that day. the offense itself that you committed is so at the heart of our democracy that i cannot incan conscience go below the sentencing guideline. the judge then issued the longest sentence recorded against any of the capitol attack defendants, at 41 months in prison, followed by three years of probation. in the prosecutors sentencing memo, on jacob chansley, they say, quote, defendant chances now famous criminal acts have made him the public face of the capitol riot. the government argues that a sentence of less than 51 months incarceration would be insufficient to impress upon the defendant the series of his actions and ensure the safety of the nation. the justice department issued a statement today saying, quote, the fbi continues to seek the public's help in identifying more than 315 individuals who believe to commit violent acts on the capitol ground, including over 250 who assaulted police officers. leading off our discussion tonight ryan j. reilly, senior justice reporter for the washington post. and paul butler, law professor, renegade prosecutor, msnbc legal analyst, author of chokehold: policing black men.. he is an msnbc legal analysts. paul, let's begin with what's judged touch can roll tonight in her six-page order. not surprising given what she already found in the case. but refusing to suspend her order to the archives absolutely handover all information to the january six committee. she refused to suspend that order while donald trump is appealing that order. >> because time is of the essence and stakes are high. lawrence, this is a historic an epic decision by judge chutkan, she shut down judge claims of executive privilege saying that for the incumbent president not former presidents like trump. trump is trying to hide reference that the public has a right to see. like who visited the white house and white house call logs. the january six investigators also won the note from white house officials about their involvement with the big lie and how trump's top officials reacted to january 2nd. judge chutkan acknowledge that the information covers a lot of ground. but it is relevant, she said, to preventing another insurrection. presidents are not kings, and trump is not president. that is a classic line that will be remembered if we survive this crisis in our democracy. >> the trump lawyers will immediately appeal this to the circuit court of appeal, they will be asked to get some kind of injunctive relief by friday when these documents are supposed to be turned over. >> lawrence, that is how trump usually operates. he typically in court cases loses on the merit, but he winds by trying to run out the clock with endless appeals. knowing this, higher court should expedite the appeals. and what the judge says is what they are trying to decide, they should release the documents, because, trump's arguments are so weak. he sends a little chance of prevailing. >> ryan j. reilly, i want to go to what you saw in the sentencing hearing today. your coverage of this has been invaluable. you have stayed on this beat, i for one would know very little about what's going on in the sentences without your reporting. this is the longest sentence yet, given, from what you saw today. >> yes, and it's quite something, because it seems like for a moment, judge lambert was going to report from the sentencing guideline, and he was talking about the other actions that had taken place that they. said, earlier, that this defendant had assisted capitol police officers when they were getting them water before he assaulted another police officer. apparently that was collaborated by those officers earlier in the day. this is apparently right after he entered the capital building and he came out, assisted some officers with some water. but of course, later on, we saw this violent event when he strikes that officer, and chases that officer, don and he yells at, him and eventually strikes him in the head. so this was the most serious consequence that we've seen today. i think it will be interesting, because the public has obviously been frustrated by some of the shorter sentences that we have seen in a lot of these cases, but now that we have a case that involves actual violence, that is going to give you an indication of where these cases are going to go. and remember, just like you said earlier, there are over 250 people still out there, that the fbi still looking for. they insulted law enforcement that day. and in total, 350 people who committed violent. so this is going to go on for a very long time. and it is going to get to a sense of what the consequences are going to be for these people if they are caught and charged for their crimes. >> and paul butler, something has been happening in some of the sentence hearings which is, some of the judges have been complaining a bit. or sounding of notes of complaints. about the recommendations being too light. that is a very strange thing to see in a federal court. >> lawrence, literally half of the people who are in federal prison are there for non violent drug crimes, that is most of the sentencing that federal judges do, so now we have people looking at this defendant who justice department lawyers called a public face of the insurrection. they want the judge to hunt down a tough sentence to send a message that nobody is above the law. they are going hard on chansley, because, he spent months on social media, perpetrating the big lie about the election. he refused to follow police commands once he breached the capitol, and, he branded a six foot spear in the capital of the united states congress. he left a message on vice president pence desk. it is only a matter of time. justice is coming. what -- this is an exceptionally bad do. >> ryan, the sentencing so far, these are obviously all guilty pleads. they are going to work their way through all of the guilty pleas before presumably they get to any trials. how long do you think it will take to work through the guilty pleas? >> it's going to take a while, i think it is going to be a mix as it goes on, because you still have cases rolling in, even today, we saw three people who were charged for cases unsealed. so these cases continue to rolled in, and i think it is sort of ready, we are going to continue to see trials as they are scheduled into next. here now that we are short of getting a little bit out of covid their trials are going to come on the books, but remember there's such a backlog of these cases that have nothing to do with january six that are on the book and happen to need to be scheduled for trial. before we get to some of these january six cases. but one thing that i thought was interesting today was that essentially, we were talking about how needs sentence for him to take a guilty plea. because they said if he gone to trial, he couldn't imagine any jury would've acquitted him. because the evidence was just overwhelming. and that is the case for a lot of, this this is a really unique, crime and that basically every second of the defendants present on the capital has been captured at some capacity. there are few blind spot. but you can basically map out what this defendant, what each defendant did throughout the entire day. what's your he entered, what confrontations they, had causing the work of online solicitation we have been able to turn up that information and upgrade the charges. and made these more minor charges more serious, and bring felony charges against a lot of these defendants who might have otherwise been facing >> ryan misdemeanors. riley and paul butler, appreciate it. thank you. and joining us now is democratic congressman tim ryan of ohio, where he's running now for united states senate, here of the subcommittee that oversees the capitol police. i want to begin with your reaction to judge chutkin's ruling that there will be no delay in handing over the documents to the january six committee in this investigation. no delay in that while donald trump appeals that ruling. >> i love it. it meets the moment. when we saw on january 6th. this meets the moment, when you guys talked about. the judicial branch is actually acknowledging how important it is to move this thing along, that commission going on, hearing is going on. we need that information. it meets the moment. it meets a powerful statement as to why he would need to deal with it, and why we need to move on. but you can't move on until there is justice and i think that this is a step in the right direction. >> we are also seeing now this increase in the sentencing. this is the first sentencing of someone who hit a police officer. the longest and so far. 41 months. >> again, a very powerful statement, i don't think you can sentence them for enough years for what they have done. i've been working now with others, -- and they have dealt with so much. you have to remember, veterans are carrying trauma from their time at war, and then what happened on january 6th, there's a lot of trauma. we are talking about officers who have been working six or seven days a week, 12 hours a day, they don't get to see their families. we are working on reforming that so they get better money and can get better benefits. but as of this moment they are not where they need to be. they put their lives on the line for us. and these guys are hitting them upside the head with lead pipes. there is so much trauma that still needs to be dealt with. so i think i am glad that these sentences are firm. i don't think that they can be firm enough because of everything that was at stake. but this is going to have a ripple effect. it has has a ripple effect with the rank and file capital police, and i'm glad that the sentence is what it is. >> we heard a request for mercy today and we heard the judge say that given that what this crime was it was possible for him to go below the guidelines. and going below the guidelines as a judges form of mercy in this case. >> yeah, i just -- you know, i don't see it. i was there on the sixth. -- and we saw with the cops went through. this is a time for mercy, a time for justice. and we have to set a standard here. . we have two candidates will win support of what happened on january 6th. we are running for the senate in ohio. and we are exercising our first amendment rights -- their rights to -- a long way from what i learned in law school. so we have some work to do. so we have some work to do, a lot of people running for office in here who will continue that. that's why the next election is going to be a good big deal. >> so the infrastructure bill is going to be passed. -- and there is no talk of anybody penalizing him. the challenge you have of course in that is communicating to voters in ohio, who is actually responsible. for delivering this infrastructure package. >> we have to be firm and democrats are never accused of being on message or having a concise message. so we've got to get our act together about who has done this. and republicans are anti-infrastructure. and i'm in cincinnati right now, not far from the bridge, that is going to get rebuilt because of this infrastructure bill. obama talked about it, trump talked about it. it is going to get not done now, and there are thousands of other bridges. if we want to compete with china we have got to make sure that the infrastructure and broadband, so that our kids can learn, the economy can grow. this is so important, for us to outcompete shine up for the jobs of the future, but money in people's pockets. it's clear that we were the ones that push this. i love to hear some of the republicans saying, it's taken so long for us to do it, so long for us to do it. they never did it. 40 years of infrastructure week. they never did it. and i am running for the senate, lawrence. people can go to ohio, and send a contribution to timforryan.com. we have about 40,000 bridges in the country that are not even close to being where they need to be. china is spending seven to 9% of their gdp on their infrastructure. we just had that fight of maybe sending 1%. so we have a long way to go. but you are right, it's important that we let people know that it was the democrats and president biden and president biden and democrats in the senate. only 13 republicans and the house voted for this. and we are going to get it done and be better off. for >> tomorrow, thank you for joining us. >> coming up, two of the co-sponsors of a new house resolution to censure paul goes are we will join us next. will join us next it's on. get yours on at chapstick.com ♪ ♪ just two pills for all day pain relief. aleve it, and see what's possible. and also try alevex topical pain relief. ♪ 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(vo) reflect on the past, celebrate the future. season's greetings from audi. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire ♪♪ ♪♪ matching your job description. ♪♪ clerk: hello, how can i? sore throat pain? ♪honey lemon♪ try vicks vapocool drops. in honey lemon chill. for fast-acting sore throat relief. wooo vaporize sore throat pain with vicks vapocool drops. it's another day. and anything could happen. it could be the day you welcome 1,200 guests and all their devices. or it could be the day there's a cyberthreat. only comcast business' secure network solutions give you the power of sd-wan and advanced security integrated on our activecore platform so you can control your network from anywhere, anytime. it's network management redefined. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. first of all, he has no comcast business powering possibilities. business being in congress. he never should have been elected and he does not belong there. and sadly, sadly they republican conference is now characterized by numerous coops and dangerous cranks. >> yes -- >> of which he is one. >> he's talking of course about republican congressman paul goes are. tonight a group of house democrats announced that they will introduce a resolution to censor paul gosar after he posted an animated video of him assassinating congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez cortez an attacking president biden. the statement said, for a member of congress to post immunity lighted video on his social media accounts to depict himself killing representative alexandria ocasio-cortez is a clear cut case for singer. for that member to post such a video on his official instagram account and to use his official resources in the house of representatives to further violence against elected officials goes beyond the pale. joining us now are two of the house democrats cosponsoring, that censure of paul gosar, brenda lawrence of michigan and congresswoman debbie roy wasserman-schultz of missouri florida. what's brought you to the point of demanding censure, brenda lawrence? >> it was clear that this push for violence -- this is not having an opposition or an opposing view. this is about inflicting harm on human beings. i was one of those members on the floor on january the 6th where it was the most bipartisan day in congress. because republicans were running side by side democrats for safety and for their lives. here we are in continuation of that, a member, inciting violence. and in the most immature way, a cartoon? and to say that the resources that taxpayers pay for, for us to do our work in congress, is being used in some violence, is unacceptable. it crosses the line and the fact that women are being depicted as victims of violence. on the co-chair of the women's caucus. we must stand up against that. violence against women is ruining america and here we are, confronted with the fact. it was not funny, not humorous. it was an insult and we need to address it in congress. >> congresswoman congressman nikki gosar's's sister appeared on this program monday night. she called for censure then. here's what she said. >> he has not been held accountable in any form. he has not been censured or excelled. now i am absolutely beyond aghast at how much this man has gotten away with. i don't know what he would do he -- hold him accountable. >> debbie wasserman schultz, two days later you are doing what jennifer gosar has been doing for a very long time. >> i will take you back to when my dear friend gaby giffords was shot of a constituent meeting. her staffer was killed we have steve nash scalise, shot at a baseball game. i had a pipe bomb delivered in the stairwell, it had to be blown up next to my office door. his spokesperson said we have no joy? there is about making a big deal out of this? he is dropping a lighted match on a tinderbox of extremism that can get real people hurt or even actually killed. hurso if there isn't an examplf what kind of conduct should be censured, then i don't know what is. let me also just take you back to gosar speaking at the rally, that whipped that crowd into a frenzy on january 6th. and then they charge the capital and attack our capitol police officers, tried to overturn a legitimate election. this is dangerous stuff. while democrats are trying to improve peoples lives, republicans have become led by guys like gosar, a morally bankrupt group of extremists. they need to be held accountable. >> representative brenda lawrence, your resolution includes the fact that he used government resources for this. he publicly congratulated his staff, his congressional staff, paid for by taxpayer money, for being so creative in helping him put this video together. >> lawrence, one of the things i want to bring up, a clear point. we just passed the most transformational, transportation investment in infrastructure is that we have had since the new deal. and guess what? the response of the republican party was to censure or to punish the members of the republican party that voted to invest in infrastructure in america. but silence on this issue? when we know clearly that the sense of permission for violence to be compelled upon those who serve in elected office, whether you are democrat or republican, it is unacceptable. >> congresswoman brenda lawrence and congresswoman debbie, thank you for joining us tonight. we really appreciate. it >> thank you. >> thank. you >> thank you, be. well >> thank you. coming up, president biden's infrastructure bill is very popular but voters don't seem to be giving joe biden the credit for it. that's next. that's next. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ healthy habits come in all sizes. like little walks. and, getting screened for colon cancer. that's big because when caught in early stages, it's more treatable. hey, cologuard! hi. i'm noninvasive and i detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers, even in early stages. early stages! yep, it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider if cologuard is right for you. count me in! me too! your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire the new sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair has the science to show matching your job description. that the toothpaste goes deep inside the exposed dentin to help repair sensitive teeth. my patients are able to have that quality of life back. i recommend sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair. infrastructure week has finally you could be working with someone outside your company and wait for back and forth e-mail, or a call to be rescheduled for the third time. orrr... you could use slack. and work faster with everyone you work with, together in one place. slack. where the future works. arrived. how many times do you hear that over the last five years? infrastructure week is coming. [applause] yeah. anyway, last week, we took a monumental step forward as a nation. and we did something long overdue. long talked about in washington. but almost never actually done. the house of representatives passed my bipartisan infrastructure bill. among other plans that i am advancing, this bill will reduce the cost of goods to consumers, businesses and get people back to work. helping us build an economy from the bottom up and the middle out. where everyone is better off. >> the president was at the port of baltimore today where he was giving that speech. president biden will sign the bipartisan infrastructure bill on monday at the white house. he has invited democrats and republicans who voted for the bill to the signing ceremony. according to a new monmouth poll, 65% of american support the bill. in that same poll, president biden's approval rating is 20 points below that at 42%. for an explanation of that poland gap, we turn now to two experts on political communication and polling. joining us now, anat shenker-osorio, founder of aso communications and cornell belcher, a democratic pollster and msnbc analyst. let me begin with you, cornell belcher. what do you see in those two numbers, 20 points apart? >> i see what is historically what happens here. i am not surprised by this. the legislation is awfully popular. but it does not necessarily turn that into votes. it's a pattern i saw in 2010. barack obama and nancy pelosi also back then passed an awful lot of legislation that quite frankly save the country from disaster. and certainly from going off an economic cliff. and then we turn around and got dragged into those midterms as well. democrats have to do a much better job of connecting their legislation to the real world and realize, to the aspirations and concerns of americans. they've been good at passing legislation. democrats have historically not been very good at selling that legislation, not good at the politics of that legislation. although i will say, lawrence, and i will say that biden has taken a lot of hits, as have democrats, about this -- but even if they had passed build back better and the infrastructure bill, i don't know that it would have made that much of a difference, quite frankly, in those results you just saw. in virginia. and history says that it may not have made that much of a difference, because the base of the party just is not energized. as well as the base of the republican parties. >> it seems that infrastructure is especially challenging for getting credit for it. because you pass the bill in october of 2021. there is no pavement, there is no building, there is no bridge repair anywhere near you for another year or two. that's how long it takes to execute infrastructure plans and infrastructure spending. and so there is a particular challenge and saying to people, look, we did this for you, you are not going to see it for quite awhile. but we did this for you. >> yeah. know -- even the word itself. infrastructure, not so cuddly. doesn't feel like infrastructure bought any by the dinner, doesn't feel like i've got you new shoes or nice purse. [laughs] i think at the very least, as a message in consideration, because when you are talking about is the unfortunate reality of lawmaking and how long things take. again, as ever, speaking about it in image like terms, you drive down the road and you need tires. you get to the port, and things are unloaded quickly and efficiently. this is about bringing america forward, about taking us into the future, confidently, together. and really emphasizing at least what we are seeing in the message testing research that we have been seeing. this is the magic of people wanting to move forward, people wanting to move on, people want to get out of what has been a horrendous year, of 18 months, plus with the pandemic and 18 other issues. so embracing that narrative of moving ahead and moving on and moving forward, as opposed to, of course, the republicans who simply want to take us ever and always into reverse. that doesn't solve the problem of the experience you have described but that's at least a messaging point that we could emphasize. >> and, cornell belcher, when i saw president trump used the infrastructure week phrase, that does seem like just a startling -- a star tellingly sharp contrast with the previous administration. the phrase infrastructure week became a joke because they never did anything about it. they never had a hearing about it in congress. never did a thing, never wrote one word of a bill, not one sentence, nothing. so is it still advantageous to joe biden to very specifically draw that contrast away that he did today? >> you know, lawrence, it's interesting. you have drawn a contrast out. and yet here we are and all of the prognosticators are arguing that republicans are well position to take back the house in the senate. and we have seen their government? and i will say something that rather controversial. to a certain extent -- how much does governing matter? you know, donald trump, almost any measure, was an absolute disaster as a president. and yet -- [laughs] he still won a large share of the electorate. and when you look at what republicans are doing right now, right, lawrence, you cannot name a five or six big policy prescriptions that republicans are putting out right now. right? they are not running on anything. they are running on, the only thing we know right now, is to ban critical race theory, which is, as everyone knows on this panel, does not exist -- it is certainly not taught in virginia schools. and it becomes a dog whistle, it's about energizing. but if you look at this consistent pattern here, if you look at what happened in virginia this time around, some groups made 8% less of a share of the electorate. rural areas made up a 3% larger share of the electorate. college voters made up a larger share of the electorate this time around -- you know, we talk about persuasion, but how much of it is persuasion to mobilization? right? and the big lie -- these people are taking your country, teaching your kids to hate being white, all of that is about energizing their base, which they did not go about mobilizing. my argument is that i don't know how energizing it is for all those young people who took from the streets and marked marched into polls, and gave democrats the senate, house, and white house -- how energized are they and were they marching for bridges and broadband? bridges and broadband are important and we want that. but is it something that they were energized by? and, you know, is something that we can say to them, let's bring that same energy for the bridge that we might have eight or nine years from now? i think we have to think bigger about mobilization. >> cornell belcher and anat shenker-osorio, to be continued, thank you both for joining our discussion tonight. coming up, harvard law professor charles -- in the 1970s defended then, someone called the most dangerous man in america, daniel ellsberg, who lead the pentagon papers and told the american people the truth about the vietnam war. now he is defending stephen danzinger, whose legal work against -- have led to -- professor charles will join us next. n us next ♪ for me and you ♪ ♪ and i think to myself ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ a rich life is about more than just money. that's why at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner so you can build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. this is the greatest idea you'll ever hear. okay, it's an app that compares hundreds of travel sites for hotels and cars and vacation rentals like kayak does for flights. so it's kayak. yeah, like kayak. why don't you just call it kayak. i'm calling it... canoe. compare hundreds of travel sites for thousands of trips. kayak. search one and done. compare hundreds of travel sites for thousands of trips. i don't just play someone brainy on tv - i'm an actual neuroscientist. and i love the science behind neuriva plus. unlike ordinary memory supplements, neuriva plus fuels six key indicators of brain performance. more brain performance? 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[daughter] slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. steven donziger it's not environmental human rights lawyer. in 2011, he won a 9.5 billion dollar court judgment in ecuador against chevron, over toxic waste dumped in the amazon rain forest in ecuador, poisoning thousands of indigenous people who were his clients in that lawsuit. chevron accused steven donziger of manufacturing evidence in that case and chevron then sued steven donziger, accusing him of withholding evidence in the lawsuit. the federal judge in that case, in the southern district of new york, tried to charge steven donziger with criminal contempt of court. by the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york refused to prosecute the case. the judge then, in a rare, rarely used procedure, appointed a private corporate law firm that has also represented chevron as special prosecutors to prosecute steven donziger for that criminal contempt of court. steven donziger was denied a jury trial in that case, lost his law license and was found guilty in that case by a different judge. and sentence sentenced to six months in prison. steven donziger began his six month sentence in connecticut. joining us now is charles nessan who has filed an amicus brief in favor of steven donziger. it's an honor to have you here. tell us about this case, because i have to tell you, trying to describe it the way i just did was hard to do. it was hard to sculpted into that shape. it's a very complex story. >> complex hardly begins to describe it. this case has been going on for close to 25 years and it probably has the largest -- docket of, i think, any case that i know of. it is just immensely complicated. but it's all hangs on one thin thread, which is that the civil judge, judge caplan, sitting in new york, as a civil judge, sitting without a jury, found that steven donziger had bribed the judge to win that verdict come. and that finding by the judge was based, crucially, by the judges own description, of the testimony of a corrupted witness who was hired by chevron and brought to the united states with his family, prepared for his testimony for over 50 sessions and then testified that donzinger had testified -- offering the judge $500,000 from the proceeds if the judge were to give him the verdict. this testimony was fabricated by chevron. it was promoted through this one witness and then -- this is the most subtle part of the whole story. judge caplan structured his opinion so that he said, that finding of bribery is not necessary to my judgment, even if that finding does not stand up. my judgment still stands. and as a result of that, donzinger could not appeal the finding. what do you appeal is a judgment. this was a preliminary finding, subsidiary to the judge, on the basis of which the judgment is made, and structured in a way that it was actually unnecessary to judge that kaplan's opinion. it couldn't be reviewed and it has never been reviewed on the merits by any single judge. so it's on this basis that we are to believe -- and has this judge and other judge judges affirming him, saying -- bribery. without a jury, ever, at any point, along this way. this contempt proceeding that you are referring to is just a follow on from that bribery finding, which still stands as the thing that dams dons uglier. if you recognize that that finding is not supported on the record of the case, do i think the whole case looks different, the whole thing looks different. >> that's very clarifying. i see what is happening here but it still remains just the strangest legal story of ever seen. harvard law professor, charles nesson, thank you for joining us and illuminating that for us. tonight's last word is next. is next. thon. instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette. 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