astroworld festival event ever kick aufd, but no one could have expected the mass casualty event that happened here. this morning, travis scott himself reached out to fans for the first time. >> i could just never imagine the severity of the situation. i'm honestly just devastated. >> rap star travis scott joining the city of houston in mourning today. while an official search for answers gets under way. >> it is important for us to ascertain from last night what took place, what happened, where missteps may have occurred. >> as scott took the stage to headline his astroworld festival friday, many of his fans were being crushed in a sea of pain. >> pushing, pushing, pushing. >> we just watched the bodies go past us, unconscious. >> with reports of people being trampled, unable to move and breathe. some unconscious and falling to the ground. ems crossing dense crowds to reach them. eight people died, all under 30. the youngest victim just 14 years old. >> we're actually working right now to identify the families so we can help assist them through this tough time. >> police are also looking into reports of a security guard who was stuck in the neck with a needle. falling unconscious and having to be revived by rescue crews. >> could it have been that somebody was given drugs and passed out and were trampled or did they pass out because they were trampled. >> police say they have improved security over the years, but the icu nurse said the show was too crowded and people were trapped in the crush. >> if you fell over, it would have been a death sentence. >> she says she fainted in the crowd, but her boyfriend lifted her over a fence to medics. >> if he would not have gotten me out of there, i don't think i would have made it. >> now, alex, you may notice the fence opening and closing and folks going inside. that actually is the venue and they're allowing concert goers who may have left in a haste to retrieve items they left behind. they're letting in just a few at a time. investigators also saying they're going to be reviewing all of the surveillance from inside the event to see if they can nail down what prompted the surge, what was the catalyst for all of that death. alex. >> yeah, it's really tough to listen to all of this. there's so many different angles that are really tragic. thank you so much, catie beck, for that. i'm joined by msnbc legal analyst, katie fang. katie, why is there a criminal probe by the houston police department? what are the potential crimes they're looking into? we look at the scene, it was like festival seating. 50,000 people crammed, standing in this area. i didn't see any chairs. >> so in texas, there's two possible criminal statutes that could be applicable, and of course, alex, we can't rush to judgment. there's going to be an in depth investigation that's conducted. but there's manslaughter, which is a second degree felony in the state of texas. that's when somebody recklessly causes the death of another. but there's also a statute that's called criminally negligent homicide, and it's when you exhibit criminally negligent conduct, meaning you know there was a significant and justifiable risk of harm or death caused to another. those are some serious statutes. they carry serious time in texas, but i think what's noteworthy is the fact that in 2019, just the second year that this astroworld event had taken place, they had a similar incident where three people were trampled and hospitalized. subsequent to that, they ended up increasing the police presence and private security. but when as a lawyer prosecutor or civil attorney, i hear that there was a similar incident a few years prior, i'm going to want to know what did we do, we being the concert promoters, the people that are running this concert. what did we do to be able to stave off, prevent, and preclude something like this happening again. another important thing is, this happens unfortunately a lot. it happens in, you know, concert mosh pits. it happens tragically in 2003 with the great white fire where 100-somebody people died.exposu this. if there were corners that were cut and people knew that there was going to be a significant risk of harm, there may be criminal charges faced by the people who promoted the concert. that includes travis scott. >> how about the civil liabilities? that's on a different level, but with these issues with crowd control, i'm curious who is most liable, the city, the organizers, the performer, because he did create this festival? >> so, if i were the attorney, i would be looking at the county. this was a county facility that was being used for this private concert. i would look at the concert promoters, that again, includes travis scott and live nation. i would want to see exactly what type of safety precautions were taken. there are certain basic protocols that should be followed when this happens. in the absence of that, if there's negligence and it's either criminal or civil, i want to make sure that i as the attorney track down the exposure. >> when you say negligence, does it also apply to the reports that someone told them, you have to stop this concert, because the situation was unfolding. so becoming aware of something while it's happening, does that suggest negligence? >> so that's a great question, alex. in the law, if there's the foreseeability, the idea that you could foresee this could be a potential consequence of your conduct, then absolutely that could end up being a negligence issue. i would note, too, alex, by the reports we're reading in the media, this was a building problem that day. over the span of a few hours, the crowd control was getting worse and worse. so why did they not shut it down? why did they let it escalate to the point where you had people that are now dead, eight dead, many of whom are minors. as parents, it is a tragedy no matter what, but especially for minor children to die. if it war foreseeable and preventable, you'll see criminal charges or civil lawsuits that will ensue. >> listen, evidence of what you see leading into the concert, we had my director maybe can throw up quickly the video of people, during the day, they were pushing through the entrances. see that? look at that. that is what you call out of control. they're knocking over the metal detectors and passing through. i mean, it's remarkable. >> yeah, and that type of -- it's not unruly. that's just dangerous. we see people right there that are already being trampled. so if this is the beginning of that day, why wasn't it put to a stop? again, we'll see what happens during this investigation, but it's sad no matter what. >> a lot of questions and a budge of tragedy for at least those eight families and beyond. thank you. >> let's look at the day's other big headlines. in washington, as president biden gears up to sign that major infrastructure bill into law, members of the administration are taking a victory lap on the sunday shows, touting the bipartisan achievement. but it comes with new criticisms, especially after democrats suffered that blow in virginia's race for governor. one democrat saying this morning, democrats shouldn't have waited this long to move that bill across the finish line. >> if we could have had this bipartisan infrastructure bill, which larry hogan is right, the house could have passed it in august. we could have spent the last three months going around virginia, talking about clean water systems, improving our transportation system, making sure our airports didn't appear to be third world. making sure every home in virginia had high-speed broadband connectivity. if we could have been talking about that win and showing the kind of job creation that actually has been taking place, things might have been different. >> hindsight being 20/20. however from the white house, they're pushing back on claims the election is what finally got the bill passed. >> i don't think the election alone put it over the line. what put it over the line was president biden starting back in april, putting it before the country, working with democrats and republicans in the senate to get it through the senate in august, working with a broad coalition in the house to finally pass it. you know, chuck, this is the oldest show on television, as you know, as long as the show has been on the air, people have come on the show and said we should make a massive investment in infrastructure to grow the economy, to strengthen the thing. we finally did it on friday. plus, those new reporting overnight from "the new york times" that says federal authorities raided the home of james o'keefe, the founder of the conservative group project veritas. it comes just days after o'keefe acknowledged the group was under investigation by the doj in connection with a diary reportedly stolen by ashley biden, the president's daughter. in the next hour, i'm going to speak to one of the reporters behind the story. first, heidi przybyla is at the white house with us. with a welcome to you, we have the white house taking something of a victory lap today after the big political win in congress. but are we hearing anything about the second part of president biden's economic agenda? >> a lot of people who work in this building behind me, they are obama administration veterans and they know therefore it's not good enough to pass something big, but you have to go out and sell it and explain it to the americans people. that's what we're seeing this morning. they're noting this is something not just president biden promises the american people, but president trump promised and failed to deliver on. however, the getting to that 2 million jobs per month figure estimate that they want to hit here for the economy, that's going to require the second part of this agenda, the agenda that helps more women work outside the home, including universal pre-k, elder care, child care costs. here's white house chief of staff ron klain earlier on "meet the press." >> i understand that voters are tired, americans are tired of how long it's taken to get the economy moving, to get covid under control. i think that frustration wears on people. but i think what the american people are going to see is we have put in place the strategies, the actions to turn that around. they are in a show-me, don't tell me mode. i think we're going to show them we have made this progress on covid, we have made this progress on the economy. we are past now the infrastructure bill, we can start implementing that. i think that will pay off results. >> so the white house expressing optimism they will get the second part of the agenda done as well. and in the meantime, they're highlighting the benefits of what they have already done, which is that it should help with businesses, individuals, commuters, make things easier. well, certainly create jobs and the white house estimates that could be felt within about two or three months, alex, but certainly the timing of this is so important because we're seeing this sinking approval rating for president biden coming on the heels of that loss in virginia. but as the white house goes out this morning and talks up this accomplishment, they're also highlighting the fact that just recently, we have gotten a very good jobs creation number as well as there's some progress in the fight against covid with a new promising therapeutic now by pfizer being rushed to market, alex. >> all good points. heidi, thank you so much. we're going to pick up on what hida reported and bring in peter baker, correspondent for "the new york times" and msnbc political analyst. here we go. how much is the white house using what happened on friday, strong jobs report, historic infrastructure bill passage, how are they trying to erase the memory of tuesday to paraphrase mark twain, the democrats' demise was greatly exagg ralted. might that be the theme moving forward? >> yeah, i think what you're going to see is the administration fanning out in the days and weeks to come to brag about what is in this bill. to tell americans why it matters. this bridge will be built, this airport will be upgraded. this court will be expanded. this broadband, you know, will be improved. all of the different things that are in this $1.2 trillion bill. because in fact, most americans don't know what's in it. all they have seen so far this year has been a lot of legislative back and forth. what the biden administration wants to do is try to tell them why it matters to them. what it will do in their lives. they think if they can get that message across, they could change that narrative. the narrative hasn't been a good one. the person who won election in 2020, promising competence and effective nsdz has had a rough time showing that, so what they're trying to do is take this win they got on friday, maximize the benefit, see if they can't build momentum for the second bill they want to pass. >> i'm curious, give a sense of how involved president biden was in the negotiations to get that infrastructure bill passed in the house. what role did he play? how integral was it? >> well, there were some real criticism he hadn't been more involved up until the last few days. the democrats on the hill felt that he was taking a little more of a hands-off approach than maybe he should have. the last few days, he got into it. he started working the phones. he's asking for names. who can i call? what should i do? he called pramila jayapal, the head of the congressional progressive caucus, also called her mother in india after the bill passed to congratulate her. i think he became more active in the last few days, and he put out a statement that he was asked to put out by the democratic leadership on friday, saying yes, i want these votes to take place today. no more mousing about about this, let's get it done. and it helped i think in the end propel it. again, the fact that it took this long, the fact he didn't do any of that kind of arm twisting a little earlier in the process has left a lot of democrats frustrated. most specifically, terry mcauliffe sitting on the other side of the potomac not preparing to move into the governor's mansion. >> good point there. bigger picture, peter, is there a precedent of a major bill changing the trajectory of a presidency? do you think president biden might see like an immediate bump in his approval rating soon? and then perhaps they sell the bill, longer term relief in the polls, is that point a to a long point b possible? >> it's possible there's a small bump in the polls because it does reflect on a president's ability to get things done. the longer term strategy, though, has to be not just this bill and not just the next bill, but covid and the economy. that's where a lot of americans are feeling it right now. and there are some signs of hope, in the sense of the last few days you got better job numbers. and you did see the approval for the vaccine for kids. and you do see the development of a new -- two new companies have a pill out, anti-viral pill that will treat covid if you get it and keep you out of the hospital, keep you from dying. if all those things come together, you can see a scenario where down the road a few months, the economy is looking better and covid is receding. if that happens, that's going to be politically a benefit to president biden. that's a big if at this point. we have seen before, you know, momentary improvement in the pandemic and the economy only to watch it turn around again. but that's what the white house is counting on. >> can democrats effectively use the fact that during all four years of a republican in the white house, they never passed an infrastructure bill despite declaring infrastructure week, i mean, that happened on a regular basis? is that something they can use? >> i think you'll hear them talk about that. president trump not only proposed an infrastructure bill just as big as the one that president biden just passed, he proposed one twice as big and not go where on it. never got a single vote on it, didn't get his own party behind it. never produced a tangible plan that could be debated the way we have seen this debate. you're right, what you're going toto hear president biden and his people say over and over again is they accomplished what nobody has accomplished sinc eisenhower. the biggest public works bill since the interstate highway program eisenhower put into place in the '50s. they'll use that to point out they can get done what donald trump never got done. >> from the gop perspective, too many times the winning side in one election overinterprets the results, overplays its hands. what are the prospects of that when gauging 2022 from this point? >> well, from the republican point of view, having just had this good week on the election, the risk is whether or not they can -- the challenge is whether they can translate that into a larger set of elections next fall. they had the historical advantage. the party that's out of power generally does better in midterm elections. these are off-year elections with relatively low turnout compared to a congressional election and particularly in a presidential election. the lesps of an off-year election don't always translate to a larger turnout, but what republicans are hoping they have shown is they can harness trumpism without trump. youngkin in virginia showed you can often play some of the same issues but do it in a less incendiary way, in a less trumpian way, keep him out of the state, don't overly embrace him. don't agree with the election fraud lies. and still therefore turn out republican voters. what you saw in virginia was republicans -- virginia voters were willing to vote for republicans. they hadn't given up on the party. they're just not willing to vote for trump. >> did you catch the opening of "snl" last night, to your point? if you haven't, please do so. it will bring a smile, but it underscores a little bit of what you said. thank you so much. we'll sue you next weekend. >> meantime, new developments in the unfolding aaron rodgers saga. we heard the embattled quarterback saying the so-called woke mob is out to get him. one of his sponsors has a response to him and it's getting quite costly. got a couple of bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. what do you say we see what this bird can do? woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. looks like we're walking, kid. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ tide pods ultra oxi one ups the cleaning power of liquid. can it one up whatever they're doing? for sure. seriously? one up the power of liquid, one up the toughest stains. any further questions? uh uh! one up the power of liquid with tide pods ultra oxi. so many people are overweight now, and asking themselves, "why can't i lose weight?" for most, the reason is insulin resistance, and they don't even know they have it. conventional starvation diets don't address insulin resistance. that's why they don't work. now there's release from golo. it naturally helps reverse insulin resistance, stops sugar cravings, and releases stubborn fat all while controlling stress and emotional eating. at last, a diet pill that actually works. go to golo.com to get yours. every day in business brings something new. so get the flexibility of the new mobile service designed for your small business. introducing comcast business mobile. you get the most reliable network with nationwide 5g included. and you can get unlimited data for just $30 per line per month when you get four lines or mix and match data options. available now for comcast business internet customers with no line-activation fees or term contract required. see if you can save by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. well, today, all you football fans, the nfl's hottest team will be without its most important player, green bay packers will play kansas city without star quarterback aaron rodgers. he is sidelined over his vaccine stand-off with the league. the nfl has launched a probe into whether rodgers or the team broke any covid safety protocols. what's been the latest on the fallout? there's been a fair amount of it. >> alex, aaron rodgers spoke on this pat mcafee show to explain why he explained not to get vaccinated. the biggest question on people's mind is why did he say back in august that he was, quote, immunized? so rodgers said at the time the media on a witch hunt to identify the players who had not been vaccinated. rodgers then stated he decided to say, again, he was, quote, immunized because he had putegzed the league accept his immunization under the vaccination protocol. now, to better understand this, according to the associated press and nfl.com, rodgers received a home opathic treatment and it was requested that the league accept that as him being fully vaccinated, which they did not. the quarterback said he wanted to keep also the details of the treatment that he got, we assume the homeopathic treatment, he wanted to keep those details between him and his medical team. here's part of the interview he did. >> i'm not, you know, some sort of anti-vaxx flat earther. i am somebody who is a critical thinker. you guys know me. i march to the beat of my own drum. i believe strongly in bodily autonomy and the ability to make choices for your body, not to have to acquiense to some woke culture of crazed group of individuals who say you have to do something. health is not a one size fits all for everybody. >> aside from the talk about rodgers not being vaccinated, the quarterback also said after he tested positive for covid-19, that he spoke to joe rogan and decided to take these monoclonal an dibodies andiver mecten. meanwhile, after the interview, a wisconsin health provider has declared the company and rodgers have decided to end their partnership. the company adding that they are deeply commit today encourage and help all eligible populations to become vaccinated against covid-19. also, as you mentioned, after rodgers has tested positive, he will not be playing today against the kansas city chiefs. they're going to be playing with their backup quarterback, jordan love. >> we'll see if there's more fall fp out to come. >> in a matter of minutes, my weekly panel with a new wrinkle, the headlines game. it's not exactly click bait on tv, but we assure you it will arouse strong responses. first, one of the leading voices in congress and the prospects of the build back better bill actually passing in a form that is accept to all progressives. 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(horse neighing) elton: nas? yeah? spare a pound? what? you know, bones, shillings, lolly? lolly? bangers and mash? i'm... i'm sorry? i don't have any money. you don't look broke. elton: my rocket is skint! congress has passed the historic $1 trillion infrastructure bill, but there's plenty of work still ahead for lawmakers this year. the list of congressional priorities still has a number of unchecked items, and at the top of the list is passing president biden's build back better act. joining me, brendan boyle, a democratic member of the house ways and means and budget committee and a member of the progressive caucus. good to see you, congressman. our viewerserize looking at a graphic, we're going to put it up on the screen, and it shows all the great things in this infrastructure bill and how it's going to benefit your constituents and everybody else's frankly, but in terms of who voted for it and against it, you voted for the bill. six of your progressive colleagues voted no. why their no votes, and i'm going to remind people, pramila jayapal and i talked about the trust factor yesterday. were those no votes about lack of trust in the senate to follow through and get this done or something else? >> well, great to be back with you, alex. i think the most important thing to focus on is that at long last, it passed. and when i say at long last, i mean not just over the last nine or ten months we have been working on this, i remember giving an interview exactly five years ago after donald trump won. and i said, one thing that as someone who very much opposed donald trump, one thing i would be willing to work with his white house on was a big infrastructure bill that he kept talking about. for four years, the trump white house made the term infrastructure week a joke. under president biden and democrats, we have turned it into a reality. as far as the six who voted no, ultimately, you would have to ask them. but i believe they were mostly concerned not so much in opposition to this piece of legislation but in such strong support for the other bill, the build back better act, which i am also confident we will pass in the next couple weeks. >> okay, and to that point, it is a larger spending bill. is that going to be the priority focus when congress returns a week from tomorrow back to work? how much pressure is there to get it done in the house that week and over to the senate? >> well, i happen to think we should have done both of these a couple month ago. and i have been a strong enthusiastic yes on both of these bills. in mew view, the sooner the better. also, because, and i think you showed a graphic a little earlier, we have a lot on our plate between now and december 3rd. i am especially concerned about the need to raise the debt ceiling. >> yeah. >> we have discussed before, it would be calamitous to the worldwide economy if we failed to do that. i have a bill i john yarmuth think would solve this problem not only in this instant but permanently. we have to keep the government funded and avoid a shutdown as well as a few other things. so the best thing we can do, pass the build back better act in the house as soon as we get back so we can move on to those other urgent priorities. >> i'm going to get to that if we have time because that's super important with regard to the debt limit. this all got pushed, in fact, to later on this month because there's some moderates who want more information before taking a vote. you had josh gottheimer who spoke about that earlier today. let's listen to that. >> we received a slew of data this past week from the treasury department and from the white house and some early congressional budget office analysis. we're expecting to receive more in the next seven to ten days. we expect it all to match up with what was presented and we'll move forward. that is what i believe will happen. >> so have you seen this data that he's talking about? and what does it tell you, and if they expect it to all match up, why hasn't it already happened? i mean, you talked about wishing it had happened in august. ron klain said that earlier on "meet the press." he wished it could have happened in august. what are the hurdles left? >> well, first, in terms of data, there is already plenty out there. the joint committee on taxation has showed that the numbers add up. the white house budget office, moodies, a well respected independent source of information that the markets really turn to, so that's three different credible sources right there. i certainly find that sufficient. if some other of my colleagues wanted to wait for a fourth independent source of information, the congressional budget office, then that's their right to do so. i do feel good about the fact, though, the agreement that was reached with the holdouts made it pretty clear that once we have that data from the congressional budget office, they indicated as long as the numbers add up, they would vote yes. i think that is really an excellent development and leads me to be quite confident we will be able to pass the build back better act as soon as we get back. >> how confident are you about raising the debt ceiling successfully before december 3rd? >> so this is a problem that we have been dealing with, god, more than a decade now. >> right. >> and when push comes to shove, confident that we'll do it. the problem is, you know, we have to be -- we have to succeed in this 100% of the time. this is nuts. the concept of the debt ceiling exists in almost any other country. the vote to raise the debt ceiling is not a vote to increase debt. it is a vote as to whether or not the united states of america will pay the bills that it ran up. so we need to raise the debt ceiling, but we also need to solve this problem once and for all. before god forbid we ever fail to not raise it in the future, which all of the economist said agree on, most liberal to most conservative, it would be a disaster if that day were to effercome. >> congressman brendan boyle, always good to see you. thank you so much. a far right freakout on capitol hill. a conservative p.o.w., rather powwow in las vegas, and more qanon craziness. the big headlines that have my sunday panel talking, next. ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ well, it's been another busy week in politics. from election day tuesday the the house finally passing the bipartisan infrastructure bill and everything in between. there's been a dizzying amount of new headlines. here to help us make sense of it all, my sunday family and panel. don callaway, democratic strategist and founder of the national voter protection action fund. susan del percio, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst. and david jolly, former congressman from florida and msnbc political contributor. hey, guys. welcome. and since you all seem to kind of like our pick your own topic theme last week, this is what we're going to do this week. i'm going to read a headline, you're going to give me your take and first up, this headline, this comes from "the washington post." patience and persistence pay off as biden gets infrastructure deal across finish line. don, your reaction first up. >> well, after terry mcauliffe, i mean, listen, virginia, we lost an election in virginia, and these things are not unrelated. we being the democrats. i wish democrats had had a little bit more urgency. we elected joe biden to be the can-do guy, the guy who's going to get stuff done in addition to stabilizing congress. it does appear things are going to get done. i'm optimistic for 2022, even through the end of this calendar year, but it was a week late for virginia. republicans in virginia who want to have belief in this administration, and it just came literally a week too late for people who want to see progress. i hope that we sacrifice virginia in order to show the rest of america -- excuse me, i hope what happened in virginia will show the rest of the country and the democratic caucus it's time to get stuff done. >> did they not look and see november 2nd on the calendar? it's kind of remarkable. but meantime, across the aisle, as "the new york times" puts it, gop erupts over its house members bailing out biden. 13 republicans voted for this bipartisan infrastructure bill, and some more far right members of the party were furious, for example, congressman marjorie taylor greene, quote, in her typically understated fashion, warned last week any republican who voted for the bill would be a traitor to our party, a traitor to their voters, and a traitor to our donors. and then after the vote, she accused of those 13 of having voted to pass joe biden's communist takeover of america and tweeted the phone numbers to their congressional offices, for some reason only listing 12 of the 13. okay. david, this one's for you. >> i would say you can't fix stupid, alex, i suppose. if we really want to put some legislative analysis to this, by the numbers, this is right. democrats did not hold their entire caucus together. it did pass with republican votes. but it also passed in the senate with i believe 19 republican votes. and the run republican issue, and there's hypocrisy in this, this infrastructure bill did come with about a quarter trillion dollars in deficit spending. the important thing for democrats to take from this, this is a good thing. take the victory lap, sell this as a jobs bill, sell this as economic stimulus, and also realize you have to really lean into this victory. because there will be zero republican votes on the build back better legislation. you have to get your caucus in line for that final vote. >> okay, let's move to this week's elections with "the new york times" reporting republicans basking in tuesday's victories diverge on what's to come next, looming over a gathering of conservatives in las vegas was the uncertainty over republicans could replicate their decisive gains with suburban voters, especially women, if donald trump remains the face of the party. your take on that, susan. >> well, as we learned in virginia, making donald trump the focus without him being in the state and playing in the political race doesn't really win elections. but when it comes to virginia, we have to look at youngkin came to be the nominee through a convention. he did not have a hard-fault primary, him being a moderate candidate versus one or two trump-like candidates. i think the difference is, when you look to repeat what happens, if you want to, which i never think is a good idea. i think you always need to look at your district, but there's going to be some really tough primaries where trumpkins are probably going to win. and that will not allow for the same strategy to take place because they want to be donald trump. they aspire to be donald trump. and in swing districts, if those candidates win the primary, that's actually going to heard the republicans a lot more because you cannot replicate it. what the republicans do need to take away is, if you find an issue, stick to it. the other thing is, don't be afraid to use the other guy's words against you. that's what really hurt terry mcauliffe and murphy in new jersey. is the ads running were in their own words. so watch out for that as well. >> yeah. there's also this take, and that's democrats thought they bottomed out in rural white america. it wasn't the bottom. republicans ran up the margins in rural virginia counties, the latest sign that democrats continue to tank in small town america. don, what do you make of that one? >> we have got to find a way to speak to white rural voters, and we have to find a way to walk and chew gum while doing that while still encouraging young voters lgbtq voters to stay moubalized in the odd year off cycle elections. if justice is on the ballot, if action on climate change and gun reform and other things we need to tackle in this country, if all of that is on the ballot with each election, you can't take innings off. democrats and the progressive base need to learn that while also finding a way to talk to white rural voters and make sure they understand we're all part of the same large coalition. george goehl does a great job doing that, and i wish democrats would listen to him more. google his name, find anything he has written and hear him out. he's a brilliant strategist. >> something else that happened this week, the hundreds of qanon supporters who gathered in dallas. they believe jfk jr. was going to appear and announce he wasn't dead. not only that, they believed he would announce he would be donald trump's running mate in 2024. kind of a theme to the questions i'm asking you today, david. what's your reaction? you're getting all the just kind of crazy stuff. >> yeah, look, in my last one, i said you can't fix crazy or stupid. that's because those members of grez who made those allegations know better. to look at that graphic, i think we should have concern for them, and what i take from that is the shame we should cast upon pop titians to take advantage of people who are in that current state of mind. we know it's a fiction they subscribe to, and to have politicians peddle in that conspiracy for the sake of political gain, i think we should focus some scorn on the politicians that manipulate that constituency. >> that's a helpful way to look at that. i appreciate that. lastly to you, susan, the headline, saturday night live introduces a new donald trump. check it out. >> can i get 60 seconds on the clock, please? because there's a lot of times when i was giving advice, a lot of times i was giving advice and people weren't listening and it didn't work out so great. when you look back with star wars, i said, you need to do it with swords. >> if you closed your eyes, it was donald trump, right? >> james austin johnson brought it. i mean, you didn't have to close your eyes to really -- you would be testing if it was who was the real donald trump. my guess is that he's probably happy that donald trump is off twitter. i can only imagine what he would have done. >> it was awesome. i know he's going to come back a lot. can't wait. don, susan, david, so will you. thank you so much. >> it is a lawsuit accusing the country's largest gun rights group of major wrongdoing, and several members of congress may be caught up in it. why gabby giffords' nonprofit is taking the nra to court. so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? you got it. ♪ liberty, liberty - liberty, liberty ♪ uh, i'll settle for something i can dance to. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ fries or salad? salad! good choice! it is. so is screening for colon cancer. when caught in early stages, it's more treatable. hey, cologuard! hi, i'm noninvasive and i detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers even in early stages. early stages. it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider if cologuard is right for you. (all) to screening! o man, that's a whole lot of wrinkly at least my shoes look good! looking good start with bounce wrinkleguard, the megasheet designed to prevent wrinkles in the dryer. at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalized plan that helps you build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. >> we had a lot of haters. >> you have 1,110 new messages. >> we got put into a corner. we used our humor to get us out of it. the 4 seasons hotel thing was a blessing for us. it's an american underdog story. ♪♪ a bit of a barrage of lawsuits. the national rifle association is under fire once again, this time for allegedly violating campaign finance laws to benefit republican candidates. givefords founded by gabbie giffords accuses the nra to use shell companies to funnel 35 million dollars of unlawful and unreported in kind campaign contributions to the likes of donald trump, senators ron johnson of wisconsin and josh hawley of missouri, among others. the nra says the lawsuit is misguided and part of an anti-freedom agenda. i'm joined now by tim mack, npr's washington investigative correspondent and the author of the new book "fis mire inside the down fall of the nra." just going to say about this book, tim, quickly, hard to think that this concept would be a page turner, it is such a page turner. we'll get to the book in a second. but i know you spent the last few years really trying to untangle all of the inner workings of this multimillion member organization. what do you think about these accusations? how do you interpret them that the nra says they are misguided? >> well, you know the nra has really gone through an evolution over the last decade. during the obama administration, they were extremely successful in fundraising and increasing their membership. but they let this arrogance over the time as the 2016 campaign approached and afterwards. the nra really did turn away from what had previously been a major strategic asset for them which was allying with moderate democrats who supported their views. and so, as you approach the trump era, they really did shift away from democrats and embrace conservatives and republicans as well as a culture war approach to politics. >> you know, in the book you do a lot of digging into wayne lapierre and the corruption of the nra chief there. also his wife susan. their efforts to maintain very lavish lifestyles and it could challenge the existence of one of the most powerful lobbying groups in washington. what led to this unraveling? >> well, it's really interesting because wayne lapierre is an unknown character until this book. right? so the book starts out with this scene at wayne lapierre's wedding to susan in the late '90s and he doesn't show up. his best man is outside with him in the car and says, hey, i don't think you should be getting married today either. puts $100 bill on the dash board. but ultimately wayne lapierre does it hooraying into going through with the wedding. this is very awkward ceremony where he can't even make eye contact with his bride. there's a reason i tell that anecdote and why it's in "misfire." the reason is that wayne lapierre's character is really behind a lot of the financial and legal problems at the nra is in today. that wayne lapierre is a pushover and powerful people inside the nra have realized over time that if you yell at wayne lapierre enough, if you push him around enough, if you demand things enough you can get millions of dollars in contracts. or other things that you want. >> yeah. and you know, again when i said it's a page turner, stories like that, you're like, wait, what? you keep reading. what is the nra response been to your book? >> well, you know, we reached out for comment and i've asked, of course, to interview wayne lapierre and susan lapierre and also provided a long list of questions related to my reporting. but i haven't heard back. what's interesting is that i have, however, interviewed more than 120 folks for this book, al of them, most of them, vast majority of them, inside the nra orbit, as well as i reviewed thousands of pages worth of secret depositions and internal nra emails in order to paint a picture of what happened behind the scenes. so, the reason why it's a page turner is because we get into some of the color, the personalities, the feel, the human feelings of greed and betrayal that our president, this dramatic story of how the nra declined over the last two years. >> yeah. again, the book is "misfire, inside the down fall of the nra" tim mak, thank you for bringing it to us. good luck with the book. the houston chronicle depicts a city anguish. we'll return to houston next. net manhood looks different from guy to guy. but when yours bends in a different direction, you might feel bothered by it. so talk to a urologist. because a bend in your erection might be peyronie's disease or pd. it's a condition that involves a buildup of scar tissue. but, it's treatable. xiaflex is the only fda- approved nonsurgical treatment for appropriate adult men with peyronie's disease. along with daily penile stretching and straightening exercises, xiaflex has been proven to help gradually reduce the bend. don't receive if the treatment area involves your urethra, or if you're allergic to any collagenase or any of the ingredients. may cause serious side effects, including: penile fracture or other serious injury during an erection, and severe allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. seek help if you have any of these symptoms. do not have any sexual activity during and for at least 4 weeks after each treatment cycle. sudden back pain reactions after treatment may occur. tell your doctor if you have a bleeding condition or take blood thinners as risk of bleeding or bruising at the treatment site is increased. talk to a urologist about what your manhood could look like. find a xiaflex-trained urologist at bentcarrot.com re-entering data that employees could enter themselves? 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