to public service, has died from complications related to covid-19 at the age of 84. while the former secretary of state and joint chiefs chair was fully vaccinated, my colleague andrea mitchell was first to report that powell had multiple my yell myeloma, a type of blood cancer. severe covid cases are extremely rare among those who have been vaccinated. general powell has been lauded by presidents and prime ministers as a man of the highest character and moral code. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell put it this way. america has lost a trailblazing leader. it is hard to imagine a more quintessentially american story, a son of jamaican immigrants who learned yiddish from his boyhood neighbors in the bronx, becomes a four-star general in the united states army and serves four presidential administrations including as national security adviser, the youngest ever chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and the first black secretary of state. and americans are reflecting on what is obviously a personal loss for so many who have followed in his footsteps. >> the world lost one of the greatest leaders we have ever witnessed. alma lost a great husband. and the family lost a tremendous father. and i lost a tremendous personal friend and mentor. he has been my mentor for a number of years. he always made time for me. and i could always go to him with tough issues. he always had great, great counsel. we will certainly miss him. i feel as if i have a hole in my heart. >> all right, joining me now, former chief of staff to colin powell across multiple positions from 1989 to 2003, including as chair of the joint chiefs and secretary of state bill smolen, and former congresswoman jane harman. colonel, i want to start with you on this one. we have heard a lot today about colin powell, the general, about colin powell, the statesman, about the man who served this country for so long. but can you tell us a little bit about colin powell the man? >> probably the three things that i remember most about him or will remember most is his character, his competence, and his credibility. and credibility to me is very, very important in life. it means to be trusted, to be believed, to be taken at your word. and people could trust colin powell with his word. and he didn't mind speaking to presidents and telling them they were perhaps going in the wrong direction. and he did that because he cared about the consequences of doing something wrong. so he was a great man. he's a national treasure. he will be remembered in history as someone who was very important in so many different parts of life that he served as a public citizen. >> jane, the colonel just touched on it a little bit, so many people today have commented that colin powell was the rare political figure to rise above. i want to play a clip from "meet the press" back in 2008, when you were in congress, and this country was in the home stretch of a bruising presidential campaign. >> i'm also troubled by -- not what senator mccain says but what members of the party say and is permitted to be said, such things as, you know that mr. obama is muslim. the correct answer is he's not a muslim, he's a christian, he's always been a christian. but the real right answer is, what if he is? is there something wrong with being muslim in this country? the answer is no, that's not america. is there something wrong with a muslim kid believing he or she could be president? yet senior members of my party have dropped the suggestion, he's a muslim and might be associated with terrorists. this is not the way we should be doing it in america. i feel strongly because of a picture i saw in a magazine, a photo essay about troops serving in iraq and afghanistan, and one picture at the tail end of this photo essay was of a mother in arlington cemetery and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave. and as the picture focused in, you could see the writing on the headstone, and it gave his awards, purple heart, bronze star, showed that he died in iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death. he was 20 years old. and then at the very top of the headstone it didn't have a christian cross, it didn't have a star of david, it had a crescent and star of the islamic faith. and his name was kareem mushad sultan khan. he was an american. he was born in new jersey. he was 14 years old at the time of 9/11. he served his country and he gave his life. now, we have got to stop polarizing ourselves in this way. >> congresswoman, this really spoke to me, because it showed how the general really rose above in so many different situations, spoke out when others were unwilling to do so. >> yes. he did. duty, honor, country, is not adequate to describe this man, although those three words were just emblazoned on his soul. i think you have to add humility and you also have to add he was mindful of the example he was setting. let's understand, he finally came out as a republican and yet he endorsed obama for president in 2008. and he understood the value of a guy, a son of immigrants, who because he was in rotc and enlisted in the military, became the role model for blacks who wanted to be soldiers or, as he used to say, youngsters who want to be soldiers. he understood the significance of that his whole life. i just can't help thinking that if he had said yes to the entreaties to run for president, that he would have offered a model of president that we have not seen certainly in my recent life. >> colonel, we can't have this conversation without talking about the u.n. speech that really kind of sparked the iraq war, that the general has called a blot on his own service. take me inside that time, colonel. how the general reacted after delivering that speech and what followed, and how he saw his legacy after that speech delivered at the u.n. >> i think it's important to take a step back, when george w. bush summoned his cabinet and said that he was planning on invading iraq. general powell, then secretary of state, spoke up and said, mr. president, that is not something that you should do. if you do, you're going to be sorry. the president said, i'm going to do it anyway. and he was then asked by the president to give that speech before the united nations and the international community. he didn't want to do that. however he went to the intelligence agencies who prepared that script for him and he threw away an awful lot of what they suggested but retained what he thought he could defend. unfortunately it was false. and all of the intelligence agencies in the federal government said there were weapons of mass destruction, but one, and that one was his in the state department. there is an intelligence element in the state department and they are the ones who said, mr. secretary, we don't think there are weapons of mass destruction. so he did what the president asked him to do. he didn't want to do it but he felt he had an obligation to do it. the alternative was to resign and he obviously wasn't going to do that at this time. >> congresswoman, i began the conversation asking the colonel about colin powell, the man. and i want to end it on that as well. wanting folks to understand who he was outside of service, what was his favorite thing to do, his favorite way to spend his time when he wasn't serving his country? >> let me just add briefly to that last answer, because i bought the intelligence case for iraq, and i said afterwards, it was wrong and i was wrong. colin powell tried to moderate what he said at the u.n. and did his best to follow an order from the vice president of the united states and i guess the president of the united states. i still salute him for his service. on colin powell, the man, he was so approachable. his humility shone through. his favorite thing was repairing old cars. he had a garage full of car parts. i never sought garage but i have a son with that habit and i talked to him about my son doing the same thing. he would get a twinkle in his eye. it was so much a part of him that he would share the warm and personal parts of his life with people like me. and to alma he was a loyal spouse. to all of us who knew him for cared for him, our serious condolences, and to our country which couldn't need more duty, honor, country right now, to bridge the incredible toxic tribalism in both political parties. colin powell was the answer for so long in public life. he will be so sorely missed by absolutely everyone. we need someone like him, some youngster to come up through the military ranks and offer just a glimmer of what he offered. >> we're going to have more coverage of the passing of general colin powell. for now, i thank you both for your time on this incredibly sad day, i imagine it's tough to speak about him but also very welcomed, obviously, for those who did not know him and only knew him for his service. colonel bill smullen, congressman jane harman, thank you. donald trump is giving a deposition today in a lawsuit over an incident that happened during a protest outside of trump tower in new york city. joining me is nbc's tom winter and former manhattan assistant d.a. rebecca roy fee. tom, take us inside this civil case. talk us through what it's really back, what it stems from and what the implications are here. >> you remember the president's statements about immigration, about people from mexico coming to new york city, the wall, very contentious time period. and so a number of protesters had been outside of trump tower on several occasions protesting his statements and his positions. and then september 3 comes along, maybe a day you and i don't remember but an important day in trump's candidacy because that was the day he said i'm not going to run as a third party candidate, i pledge to the gop, i'm with you, period, end of story. so there was a ton of cameras there, a lot of media. he gave a speech on the first floor of the trump tower which is of course where he announced his campaign. outside, there's this protest. and according to the lawsuit and some video from that day, trump's bodyguards including keith shiller, his primary guy, right-hand man, were outside trump tower when they assaulted several of these protesters according to this lawsuit and according to some of the video. that's where this lawsuit stems from. it was filed 2015, approximately seven years ago, and they're looking for damages for what they say are ongoing medical bills, payments, and pain and suffering, as well as potential punitive damages. that's where it could get tricky from a financial standpoint for the president going forward. >> what are they alleging happened? >> in one instance, that one of the protesters was punched in the head, on several occasions that they were protesting, signs were torn up, taken away. another person says he was nearly choked by one of trump's bodyguards. those are allegations in the lawsuit. in their filings the attorneys for the former president and his bodyguards strenuously deny those claims. >> rebecca, what do you make of the former president here being forced to be deposed after skirting it for quite some time, of course claiming executive privilege? >> well, you know, his lawyers will continue to seek to delay. but there's a certain point at which he's just a private citizen like no one else. at all these lawsuits, he'll have to present evidence. i think it's an important moment because, you know, now these civil suits are going forward and we'll see this increasingly, that, you know, he's going to be asked to answer for these allegations and whether the protesters will be able to prove that he was responsible for his security guards' action is another question. but he's not going to be able to evade coming into court anymore. there still are mechanisms of delay. >> do we know if he actually showed up and offered his deposition this morning? >> he did show up and offered his deposition. whether it's still ongoing is something we're trying to get our hands on. >> thank you, we appreciate it. still ahead, more on the death of colin powell from covid complications. we'll look at the health challenges he faced and why they put him at increased risk. and american missionaries including children kidnapped in haiti. what we know about their brazen abduction. and jury selection begins today in the trial of three men accused of murdering a black man who was out for a jog. reverend al sharpton on what justice would look like for ahmaud arbery. we'll be right back. with one element securing portfolios, time after time. gold. agile and liquid. a proven protector. an ever-evolving enabler of bold decisions. an asset more relevant than ever before. gold. your strategic advantage. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurancehem to the world. from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ some more breaking news we're following. fbi agents are now in haiti to aid in the rescue of kidnapped american missionaries. 16 americans and one canadian were kidnapped on saturday. five kids are among the missing. the missionaries are members of christian aid ministries based in ohio. they were visiting an orphanage in port-au-prince. they are thought to have been kidnapped by 400 mowaza, a gaining responsible for similar kidnappings. nbc news correspondent sam brock and in miami, correspondent jacqueline charles. sam, you spoke with some haitian immigrants today protesting the recent deportations of haiti's refugees. what did they tell you and what more are we learning about this kidnapping? >> yasmin, there's a state department briefing ongoing. we're hoping we're going to get some clarity. it took until last night for the state department just to confirm the kidnappings. in terms of the protesters we spoke with out here today, any time you have a situation where priests are taken from churches, kids off of school buses, kidnapped for ransom, you know this has devolved into a level of catastrophe that you can't wrap your head around. nine people were arrested in downtown miami over my shoulder, arrested for calling for the end of deportations of haitians back to a country where violence is so widespread, one man described the situation his family members are seeing on the ground right now. >> if they're kidnapped, every day, every single day, they kidnap at least 20 to 25 people in haiti. every day you live in haiti, you're lucky. every single day you live in haiti, you are lucky. >> yasmin, the official u.n. report is about 330 kidnappings reported to haitian police so far the first eight months of the year. when you talk to people connected to haiti doing research on the ground, they say that figure is in the thousands, not the hundreds. i spoke to a doctor who runs a hospital near port-au-prince who is filling up oxygen tanks and trying to negotiate with notorious gangs simultaneously. we'll have more on that coming up on "nightly news" this evening, yasmin. >> jacqueline, you hear sam's reporting about haiti and what's going on on the ground there. we had heard warnings of gang violence and chaos on the ground. we didn't necessarily know it was as bad as it actually is, especially after this year's earthquake and the president's, of course, assassination. paint us a picture of what life is like right now on the ground in haiti and how things can actually change if in fact they can. >> i can tell you that since june, you have at least 19,000 haitians who have been forcefully displaced from their homes in the southern edge of port-au-prince. sam mentioned the earthquake. the reality is today you have large numbers, hundreds and thousands of people who were victimized by this quake, who have not been able to get humanitarian aid because the trucks cannot get to the southern edge of port-au-prince. the community that has now found itself hostaged, this is the second time in months that they have been victims of haiti insecurity. in june at least two of them were killed in a plane crash trying to get from port-au-prince to a southeast city because they could not go by roads because of the increased gang violence. we're talking about americans and a canadian, five children. but the reality is that hundreds of haitians and fallen victims to kidnappings this year alone, not solely by this gang but by a number of gangs that increasingly control large parts of port-au-prince. >> what needs to be done to change things on the ground? >>tive tell you, that's where the disagreement is. everybody agrees the status quo cannot maintain. this country is descending into chaos. but when you talk about the options out there, whether it's a return of the united nations peacekeeping troops that left after 13 years just a few years ago, or the u.s. military to come in, or the hiring of foreign contractors, everybody is divided on what the solution is. the only thing they agree on is that something has to change. the haitian national police today is reduced, it is demoralized. there's issues of corruption. and the force has not been able to deal with the gangs, to take them on. >> some brock, jacqueline charles, we appreciate you jumping on for us, guys, we'll stay on this story as it develops. thank you. coming up, everybody, we'll head to chicago where police have been warned, comply with the city's vaccine mandate or face consequences. and jury selection begins in the trial of three men charged in the killing of ahmaud arbery. that conversation is coming up. but i'm coming for him. happy halloween michael. at t-mobile for business, unconventional thinking means we see things differently, so you can focus on what matters most. whether it's ensuring food arrives as fresh as when it departs... being first on the scene when every second counts... or teaching biology without a lab. we are the leader in 5g and a partner who delivers exceptional customer support and 5g included in every plan. so, you get it all, without trade-offs. unconventional thinking, it's better for business. are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? 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(combative yelling) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. at walmart, target and other fine stores. i'm still drawn to what's next. even with higher stroke risk due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin that's a trail i want to take. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk better than warfarin. and has less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis has both. don't stop taking eliquis without talking to your doctor as this may increase your risk of stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking, you may bruise more easily or take longer for bleeding to stop. get help right away for unexpected bleeding, or unusual bruising. it may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor about eliquis. when i was diagnosed with dupuytren's contracture, i waited to get treated. thought surgery was my only option. but then i found out about nonsurgical treatments. it was a total game changer. learn more about the condition at factsonhand.com she was a young lady. ahmaud was by baby boy. he was my brother, an uncle, a grandson. ahmaud was loved. justice looks like all three defendants going to jail forever. >> the mother of ahmaud arbery shared her thoughts as jury selection begins in the trial of three men accused of killing her son, who face a slate of charges including felony murder in state court for the february shooting death of the 25-year-old as he jogged through a southeastern georgia neighborhood. nbc's catie beck is outside the courthouse in brunswick, georgia. catie? >> reporter: yasmin, it's been a year and a half his ahmaud arbery was killed when jogging through a community. because this case has so much publicity, they've summoned a massive jury pool and lawyers have started the process of selecting the final 12. we want to warn our viewers that some of the images they may be disturbing. this morning, the trial for the three men charged in the arbery murder gets under way. just 12 jurors will decide the high profile case that sparked racial justice protests nationwide. greg and travis mcmichael are facing murder charges for the february 2020 slaying of arbery. the father and son who are white pursued arbery who is black while he was jogging in their neighborhood. william "roddy" brian, a neighbor who joined the chase and recorded it on his cellphone, is also charged. >> this case will be a litmus test for where the nation is concerning race relations in the south in particular. this is a region of the country that has present racial demons to grapple with. >> reporter: the mcmichaels said they thought arbery was a robber. one said he shot arbery in self-defense while the other says he was just a witness. the suspects are charged with malice murder, felony murder and aggravated assault. in advance of the trial, arbery's family and supporters rallied together. >> ahmaud was loved. he was loved. he is loved. and through this all, he's still loved. >> reporter: this morning another chapter begins in one of the cases that sparked america's recent reckoning on race. yasmin, lawyers tell us with such a large jury pool and such a small community, that about one in 50 residents here received a summons in this case. they say it could take one to two weeks before a jury is seated. yasmin? >> catie beck, thank you for that. joining me, president of the national action network and host of "politicsnation," al sharpton, and david henderson. david, i want to start with you and play what the lawyer representing arbery's family had to say about the proceedings today. >> it's going to be difficult to find a group of people who never heard of the case. but certainly we want to be sure that the people who are added to the jury don't hold any bias, that people of color aren't being inappropriately stricken from the jury on the virtue of being of color alone. we want to see a fair, well-balanced jury. >> how much of a challenge, david, is jury selection going to be? >> it's an overwhelming challenge, yasmin. everyone thinks from watching tv that cases are won in closing arguments. they're not. they're won in jury selection. what's challenging here is you need at least two black people on that jury to have a fighting chance of getting a guilty verdict coming out of this trial. and the defense only has to pick one person who believes in carrying their guns, because southerners who carry their guns overwhelmingly tend to believe they can use their guns whenever they feel threatened even if they use them unlawfully. you get one person like that, it jams up the entire process at a time when a case like this makes people feel afraid in a way where people will disqualify themselves from jury selection without realizing it. >> rev, this seems like a combination of george floyd and trayvon martin. we have the video evidence, as we did with george floyd, the incriminating, awful-to-watch video evidence, seeing ahmaud arbery shot in cold blood. and then you have this idea of vigilanteism, right, of self-defense being claimed in the defense here, like george zimmerman. what are you going to be watching as this thing plays out? >> well, it's interesting you raise both trayvon martin's case as well as the george floyd case. as you know, i was at the forefront, helping with both, as i have talked to ahmaud arbery's parents since this happened and they've been rallying with us as we go to the national level. what i will be watching for is, yes, i agree jury selection is going to be critical, and who testifies. in the case of trayvon martin, we never got a guilty verdict. we had to march to even get zimmerman indicted and go to trial. so we had nothing there. and the witnesses that came really were more helpful to zimmerman and the defense witnesses were not -- i felt they were credible and had great testimony but the jury didn't go for it. what made a contribution for a guilty verdict in the case of george floyd, you actually had 11 police officers testify against the police. the question is are we going to see witnesses that will deal well, character, the tendencies, the possible bias of the defendants? will the prosecutos be able to bring in witnesses that even those that may be leaning one way can say no, i cannot go if this is the character and tendency of these people, let alone the evidence? the evidence appears to be there from the videotapes. it's the background to the evidence, the lead-up to the evidence, and what jury members bring into that jury box as their own experiences that's going to be decisive. and i'm looking to see who is going to testify under what circumstances. >> hey, rev, before i let you go, i do want to get you on the record here when it comes to voting rights. you and i have talked behind the scenes about how you've been screaming from the rooftops here when it comes to voting rights, wanting washington to pay more attention to it. they are now, it seems, least senator chuck schumer is setting a vote for the pared-back voting rights bill on tuesday. this may very well be the last chance for federal voting rights legislation. we know they don't have 60 votes. they're relying on joe manchin, it seems, right now to drum up ten more votes, doesn't necessarily seem like he's going to be successful at that. what are you watching for here, what are you expecting with this voting rights vote? >> well, joe manchin said he wanted it bipartisan, he wanted a different bill. he helped to craft this bill they're going to vote for wednesday and thursday. if he cannot deliver ten senators of the republican party or even one, then i will be among those that will be saying, now, senator, you must go with us to either carve out the filibuster or reform the filibuster. we gave you time, we went with your bill, now your republicans let you down. progressives, civil rights communities, all of us gave you the time you wanted, you couldn't get any of them to go with you, now do what is right for the american people. >> all right. we'll be watching the vote on voting rights. we'll be watching this case on ahmaud arbery play out. for now, thanks to both of you. new reaction moments ago from vice president kamala harris to the death of general colin powell. stay with us. regina approaches the all-electric cadillac lyriq. it's a sunny day. nah, a stormy day. classical music plays. um uh, brass band, new orleans. ♪ ♪ she drives hands free... along the coast. make it palm springs. ♪ cadillac is going electric. if you want to be bold, you have to go off-script. experience the all-electric cadillac lyriq. what makes new salonpas arthritis gel so good for arthritis pain? you have to go off-script. salonpas contains the most prescribed topical pain relief ingredient. it's clinically proven, reduces inflammation and comes in original prescription strength. salonpas. it's good medicine. your eyes. beautiful on the outside, but if you have diabetes, there can be some not-so-pretty stuff going on inside. it's true, with diabetic retinopathy, excess sugar can damage blood vessels, causing vision loss or even blindness. so remember this: now is the time to get your eyes checked. eye care is important to your long-term diabetes management. see a path forward with actions and treatments that may help your eyes— and protect against vision loss. visit noweyesee.com and take control of your sight. breaking news, everybody, vice president kamala harris reacted to the death of general colin powell moments ago after landing in nevada. let's listen. >> what an extraordinary public servant, american patriot. i last saw him in july at the dinner, it was a small dinner that the president hosted for chancellor angela merkel. she had breakfast with me that morning at the residence. and secretary powell and i had a chance to catch up. you know, what an incredible american. he obviously served with dignity. he served with grace. he was the epitomy of what it means to be strong but at the same time so modest in terms of everything that he did and said in a way that it was never about him, it was about the country, and it was about the people who served with him. we talked a bit about the challenges of this moment. and as you all know, he's very supportive of the president and the work that we needed to get done. i wanted to say also, he as the first black person, black man, to be joint chiefs, chairman of the joint chiefs, to be national security adviser, to be secretary of state, every step of the way, when he filled those roles, he was by everything that he did and the way he did it inspiring so many people. and there's been a lot of conversation about him, how young service members and others not only in the military but in our nation and around the globe took notice of what his accomplishments meant as a reflection of who we are as a nation. and i think that's one of the most important things to take away, which is that he broke so many barriers. and those barriers were not easy to break by any stretch. but he did it with dignity. he did it with grace. and because of what he was able to accomplish, it really did elevate our nation in so many ways. so may he rest in peace. >> reporter: what is your message for americans who know that he was fully vaccinated with covid, who now remain skeptical about getting the vaccine, despite the fact that yes, did he have the cancer diagnosis as well? >> i don't think that -- what happens in terms of his health situation is exactly what the doctors have told us can happen, right, in terms of people who are immunocompromised, people who have preexisting conditions. i think that today is a day to really reflect on the life of the man and his extraordinary service and not to politicize the efficacy of vaccines. >> the vice president there reflecting on the life of general colin powell. the former secretary of state died of covid complications despite being fully vaccinated. the 84-year-old has been battling a type of cancer that severely limits the ability of the body to fight off infection. treatment for myeloma weakens the immune system's response. josh lederman is outside walter reed medical center where the general was treated and msnbc medical contributor dr. natalie azar, welcome both. josh, what do we know about the treatment the general underwent there at walter reed? >> the family of colin powell, yasmin, is praising the caring treatment that he got here at walter reed national military medical center. but we don't really know a whole lot about how the last few days of his life unfolded as he was battling covid. we don't know for example which side effects or complications from covid-19 he had or even when he tested positive for the virus, although we do know that he had been fully vaccinated, meaning this was a breakthrough case. we also know that colin powell, as you mentioned, was someone who had suffered actually multiple bouts with cancer including a 2003 bout with prostate cancer in which he had surgery while he was the sitting secretary of state. we also know the multiple myeloma, cancer in the bone marrow, not only made him more vulnerable to severe covid-19 infection, but a study published in july in the journal "nature" found people with multiple myeloma were actually less responsive to the covid-19 vaccine. so in more than half the cases of people with multiple myeloma they found they did not have a full response, they did not create as many antibodies as someone who did not have multiple myeloma. so that may have played into the diminished immunity here from colin powell. but we also do not know at this point in time whether he had the opportunity to get a booster shot. >> dr. azar, expand on josh's reporting here in speaking of multiple myeloma, the treatment for it, and how it can feasibly make someone more susceptible to this virus, to a breakthrough infection even though they have been double vaccinated. >> right. josh hid on all of the really relevant and salient points here. what i would say is that, number one, we don't actually know all the details of his treatment course, you know, was he still getting what we call maintenance therapy, did he have a stem cell transplant, all of those details are missing. but what i will say is that individuals who have multiple myeloma, yes, by virtue of that particular cancer, they are at a higher risk for getting infected. and as josh pointed out, we have accumulating data that a lot of individuals with what we call immune logic malignancies or blood cancers don't respond as well to the vaccines as individuals who are not immunocompromised, hence their candidacy for boosting a few months ago earlier than the general population. and so i would just add that in those individuals, a series of three mrna vaccines might actually be that, be a series rather than what we call a booster, meaning that they never achieved a full, you know, response with the initial, you know, two shots. >> so we know now the general had a breakthrough infection of covid-19. what is the data that we have when it comes to breakthrough cases, dr. azar, and how rare is it for a healthy vaccinated person to actually experience these types of complications and/or hospitalization? >> very rare. and, you know, yasmin, to the reporter's point who asked this of the vice president, this in no way, shape, or form should send a message to anyone that they should forego vaccination. colin powell was exactly the demographic that we worry about, given his age, his underlying medical history. i mean, it really places him at a significant higher risk of covid-19 complications should he experience a breakthrough case. again, if you're listening to this and you have not been not vaccinated and you are in a group that is vulnerable or you're in a group that's generally not vulnerable, vaccination is obviously still the way to go here. >> josh letterman, dr. natalie azar, thanks to both you guys. really appreciate it. up next, the latest on a vaccine showdown in chicago. the mayor facing off with a police union president. we'll be right back. union t we'll be right back. oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? so you only pay for what you need. sorry? limu, you're an animal! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪♪ your new pharmacy is here. to make sure you don't run out of meds here. and with amazon prime, get refills and free two-day shipping. who knew it could be this easy? 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