"morning joe," it's monday. >> did you have a good monday? >> i will tell you about it in just a moment. >> joe has a lot of cats. he's a cat man. >> we were not big cat people. we had dogs. mika is a cat woman and apparently everybody in our family has - >> cats. >> everybody decided to get cats and everybody decides to leave town. >> and drop their cats off. >> i am herding cats. what do i do? usually sit down and watch my soccer and smoke cigarettes, drink my pbr. here i am herding cats all weekend. >> you are really good with the food for some and you keep it from the others that they don't get stomach problem, you are caring for all your cats. okay. it was quite a fixture to come home to. >> put them on leashes. >> with us, we have the host of msnbc, reverend al sharpton. >> very disturbed, i am thinking you are a dog guy reverend al, i am not a cat guy. if they were thrust upon me on this marriage. >> i am neither a dog guy or cat guy if i can help it. i have been caught once or twice but i have recovered quickly. >> he loves cats, i know it. jonathan lemire is a cat guy. >> this guy you will never win, this guy collects and i have never seen this before, ferrets and he has a little track in his backyard and he has ferret races. i think it's illegal. i will tell you what, it keeps the neighborhood's kids busy, right? >> mayor rudy giuliani tried to ban ferrets so i had to move my operation underground. i have been successful and i can do online betting with the ferrets. that helped and made a little money on the side. the republican candidate with 15 cats. that rivals with you guys. >> are you kidding me? >> that part is true. >> we got to get curtis on the show. i have not heard much from him in this campaign. >> you really had value, jonathan. >> he's got 15 cats. we need to talk to him about it. i can't help but think when i stare at them to the abyss, that's the future i am looking at if i don't put a no cats allowed sign on my front door. i am going to be curtis and wearing the beanie and i got 15 cats. let me ask you this lemire. where do you read that curtis have 15 cat in a 350 square foot apartment. >> that was on the associated press. my colleague michelle price did a story the last couple of days. this is not a secret. he's proud of his cat ownership. we have photos. it's cats as far as i can see and the old campaign poster. he's got 15 cats. they all have their own names and he'll go into details as to their perspective personaliies as well. >> joe can do that. >> i know you can do that as well. between this and your pension for riding the subways and you guys are a lot alike. >> the reporting is right. he does have all these cats in his apartment but unfortunately for him, eric adams, will have the mansion and he'll be in the apartment with those cats. >> i don't know the politics of new york city that well. i am thinking of being a cat man with 15 cats in a 300 square foot apartment will not help in parts of staten island. am i wrong? >> but, look at it this way for those of us that have our battles down the last couple of decades with curtis, maybe cats are the only crowd that he can draw. >> come on, come on. we are going to let curtis come on the show and defend himself and his cats. mika, you will like this, alex just told me all rescue cats. >> that's amazing. i love that. little frisky for everybody. >> the man of the house here, you should have seen joe. >> we are in public here. >> meat ball is the man of the house, is that what you are saying? >> you know this. >> man of the house, enjoy next weekend with meat ball. i am going to watch baseball with lemire. we begin with the update of the condition of former president bill clinton. he was released after spending a number of days getting treatments for an infection. >> reporter: the 42nd president is back home in new york a health scare led to five nights in a southern california hospital. former president bill clinton walked slowly out of uc irvine thank youing doctors one by one. the 75-year-old was in town for a clinton foundation event but felt ill on tuesday. he was diagnosed with urinary track infection that spreads to his bloodstream. the iv extended his stay. >> describe the gravity of this for someone at 75. >> it could become life-threatening. >> reporter: the two-term president has a history of heart problems. in 2004, he had a quadruple bypass, prompting him to make major life changes. over the weekend, clinton receiving calls from former president bush and vp gore. the current administration assured by his progress. >> he seems to be god willing doing well. >> reporter: progress that's cleared clinton to head home. >> all right, and the house select committee investing the january 6th insurrection will convene tomorrow to vote on adopting a report over bannon's refusal to comply with subpoenas. >> what's your message to people who defy congressional subpoenas on the january 6th committee. >> i hope the committee goes after them and holds them accountable. >> should they be prosecuted? >> i do, yeah. >> the doj responded with a statement that underscores its walls of separation from the white house. saying the department of justice will make its own decisions. >> jonathan lemire, the president came out and was making recommendations or at least giving his opinion to what the justice department should do. we saw quickly the difference in justice departments now and under donald trump that came out immediately, we'll make the decision on our own. >> i was along those reporters on the south lawn of the white house when the president said that. it was surprising. let's be clear. this is him offering his opinion, this is different than what donald trump used to when he was in off the when he tried to use the department of justice as his personal lawyer firm going after his political opponents. there is a bright line between the west wing and main justice and they're not going to interfere. that's the tone from this administration from the start that they felt like president biden has said one of the damaging was the department lost trust with the way jeff sessions and bill barr running the place. he wants to make sure they are independent and no interference. january 6th is something this white house cares deeply about. that's why they would not let president trump use executive privilege to help his allies. he himself may face the same fate, there are due deliberations right now happening in the committee. they want the investigation to be thorough and fair, to send some sort of message. the behavior won't be tolerated again with more elections on the horizon and real fears whether republicans will certify the results if they don't like them. >> there is this, former president trump is scheduled to be deposed in a lawsuit brought by demonstrators, who were roughed up by camera. demonstrators were protesting trump's characterization of mexicans when he announced his run for president. let's bring in our tom winter. tell us about this specific deposition and how it relates to all the things that former president trump is facing and may have to be deposed for in the future. >> september 3rd, 2015 may not be a date that sticks out off the top of our heads. that was the day that the president, the former president pledged his allegiance to the republican party. that was the time where he was flirting with the idea that if the republican party does not go along with me, i may become a third party candidate in this group of individuals. he had been protesting several times before. on this particular day they were there and this is the day where they said they were assaulted by members of trump's security staff. since what we had here is a series of protesters who had been there on a number of vacations, on this particular day, the media interests there and the amount of camera there were very high. garcia who was the name in lawsuit, one of the plaintiffs that he was assaulted, hit in the head by schiller. there was another individual who was nearly choked by trump's security staff. they move forward and it was filed in bronx' supreme court and been going through the process and depositions have been taken. he's been deposed in this incident. you are looking at videos from back in that time. the alleged assault happened right there and on camera. schiller's deposition has been difficult for trump's attorneys. he has made statements saying he chose not to wait nypd to come and on top of that according to the attorneys for the six plaintiffs. they say schiller did not have a proper new york bar license. as far as we know it's still going on and we'll be video taped. and one day either through exhibits or at a trial we'll see the president's deposition being placed. as far as the plaintiff's attorney, they feel like they have an important case. >> this is an important date for the trump campaign. a lot of cameras and we are dealing with donald trump's mindset where he was not the candidate and not the president. he was calling a lot of the shots because he had a small circle in terms of his campaign stamp which means his deposition could be revealing about his direct involvement of the alleged assault. i think it's important that people understand the time frame we are talking about this occurred and at what point of this career. >> reverend, you are completely correct. you raised two important points. one, the first thing was where he was in the campaign at the time, the republican nominee was far from, there is no caucus and no real votes have been cast, he was still very much a candidate fighting it out in the middle of the field. that was the first thing as far as the optics of this. as far as his depositions today, there is a legal theory in new york state and this is what the attorneys were representing the six individuals are pointing to. employers are responsible even if schiller conduct was intentional. if allegations are proven true that trump himself is responsible, if schiller was acting within the scope of his or her employment agreement, that's kind of the legal term. what they're trying to say the attorneys for the six individuals look the president is on the hook here because these people were acting within the scope of their appointment. yeah, using force was part of my job so that eventually the person who could be responsible could be the president and that could open up the president's punitive damage here of significant financial victory. >> tom winter, thank you so much for joining us this morning with that reporting. now we turn to the latest on 17 missionaries kidnapped in haiti. 16 members of the group were american children, taken by a gang. the new york times reports that the gang responsible for the kidnapping is among the country's most dangerous and one of the first to engage in mas kidnapping. nbc news correspondent sam brock has more. >> reporter: the turmoil and violence rocking haiti has been directed on american citizens after 17 people were kidnapped near the capitol of port-au-prince while visiting an orphanage. the terror of nothing new. >> reporter: this taxi driver says the effects of kidnapping, people do not go out on the streets. we can't find people to transport. armed gangs since haiti's president was assassinated in july. the kidnapping were carried out by the same group that abducted priests and two nones earlier. >> reporter: do you believe the number of kidnaps this yearthou? >> yes, i do. they have been kidnapping everyone on the side of the streets to children going to school. they have been walking into churches to kidnap pastors and parishioners on sundays in broad daylight. >> reporter: the conditions in haiti is worsening by a deadly earthquake prompting thousands fleeing to texas weeks ago seeking for refuge. >> there is no police and military, there has not been a military for decades. who do you go to so say i have just been kidnapped? >> reporter: american citizens trying to lift up the suffering of desperate needs to help themselves. >> let's bring in our jacob soboroff. if you can talk to us how pervasive the danger of these kidnapping can be or is. >> reporter: this is the greatest year in terms of kidnapping in haiti ever, mika. when we were on the ground, just like everybody who's in haiti whether you are haitian national or people visiting from out of the country, we had to be cautious about our movement, they were instructed walking in the streets nor doing anything going up to the atm, we travel together with our group always and we can see the organization we visited. we spent time with the world food program who was delivering aid to that earthquake ravage peninsula. we had to fly there. it was so dangerous how they were delivering the food by caravan or convoy was prohibited. we got on the chopper and plane and we went back and forth and made those food deliveries. they had to shut their own facility because violence is so prevalent. 50% of the people inside the facility, victims of gun violence, but, also the doctors themselves need to be cautious about the same types of kidnappings that these american missionaries and one canadian found themselves subjected to. >> one of the concerns i have heard of the last few hours since the kidnapping went public is there is a large segment of the haitian community in the united states that's afraid of this leading to the united states making direct moves to come in and get american citizens and the whole fight of american occupation, you can't leave americans there under some kind of hostage situation. how are we hearing they're navigating with this. we know there is a fragile government there in haiti. how do we balance the protecting of american citizens but looking and at the same time not looking like we are trying to come and not occupying haiti. >> well, i am glad you brought that up. it has been an active conversation among the biden administration according to reports about why ambassador, the special envoy decided to part. there were conversations about whether or not to send security forces into haiti. i can imagine that conversation has been brought up again in the wake of this incident. it's also part of the conversation about why at all the biden administration is sending haitians who show up at the southern border back to haiti if these are the conditions not in that nation. this is of course the poorest nation in the western hemisphere. it's one that's hit hard by natural disaster. we have not mentioned the assassination of the former president just this summer and that has just been in the last several months. of course the conversation about potential u.s. military is one that makes a lot of people uncomfortable. the biden administration they should say had not say anything to that effect. >> jacob soboroff, thank you so much for your reporting. police departments are facing covid vaccination deadlines and many officers are choosing to quit rather than get a shot. hospitals nationwide saying vaccine mandates work. >> mika, before we go to break, tell us about your big event in san diego. >> i got out a little bit. i was happy to be apart of the women's event. i do it every year. the big empower event for women, we had incredible conversations and workshops and talked about navigating through this complicated time in the workplace for women coming out of this pandemic. thank you so much for having. a wonderful friend, elaine and davies, really appreciate it. we'll be right back. davies, really appreciate it we'll be right back. >> my first event since the pandemic hits and i could not miss this. this is my favorite event to do every year. it's not work. >> well, this morning when i mentioned you were going to be speaking, i said you are part of the empowered family. you have been with us from the beginning and we design a lot of contents over the years and 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shooter. a new report reveals china's testing of a new capable hyper sonic missiles have surprised u.s. intelligence officials. the chinese military launched a rocket carrying a hyper sonic glide vehicle which circled the globe flying through low-orbit space and heading towards its target. the missile missed the target by about 24 miles but showed that china has made astounding progress on the technology. again, surprising u.s. officials. ism. a massive strike averted. variety reports many union members say they'll vote against ratifying the new contract because it does not do enough to address working conditions onset. a vote will not be held many weeks. work on film and tv sets will proceed as usual in the meantime. 16 years after entering the wnba, the chicago sky made history last night. >> grinder 3, rebound parker. she's left alone. mission accomplished. that's it for the first time in franchise history. the chicago sky, our wnba champions. >> with last night's 80-74 game four victory over the phoenix mercury, the sky win their first title. very cool. beautiful to watch. >> and jonathan lemire, a couple of things going on also on tv last night. first of all, let's talk about the braves and the dodgers, the atlanta braves who i remember going up 2-0, not only last year against the dodger but 1996 against the yankees. going off against the dodgers this year again and another walk off, they're up in the series improbably against the mighty dodgers. >> you are right a 2-0 lead is not really save with the braves. the dodgers are the wild card. l.a. is the heavy favorite, they won 106 games and the braves are. nowhere near that number. scherzer was not at his absolute best but still pulling him in the fifth seems early. give the braves credit. they got a little walk off magic here. they go to l.a. the next three and it's far from over. it's going to be, the very least looks like a long series right now which is not necessarily bad for those of us following the american league and where things stand there 1-1 we are at fenway tonight. >> from boston, massachusetts and china waking up this morning, they're wondering what's going to happen tonight. why don't you set this up for us? >> they had a shot on friday night, they had a lead and manage the bullpen well that night. he got them through the third. 3-1 league in the sixth. they mapped it out that way and they stopped hitting. that one hurt. i felt it was a winnable game. the sox got away. thankfully, all we wanted was a split and we got it. we went out early, 8-0 lead. tj hernandez is bay ruth or better hit a home run. we didn't attack the pen very much. a day off yesterday and game three at home. we won that split, 1-1. fenway has been a tough place for opponents to win the playoffs. we need at least two out of three here if we are going to pull it off. >> last night when mika came back, we caught up on a lot of shows, "only murder in the building," my god, such a great show. caught up on "billions," we finished it. one we did not catch up on and did not stay up for is "succession," you saw it. how is the first episode? >> no spoilers but you will be very happy. it picks off right after season two left off. logan and kendall, they're squaring off as one. it's delicious. it's fun and sets up a really good season ahead. you will enjoy it. i will say i am early on, i only seen a couple. it's wonderful. >> i really like it, too. >> it's really great. kendall goes up in a rocket ship with richard branson, i never saw it coming. they're orbiting in space the entire season, i don't get it, i am not a show runner. we can't wait to see the first episode and see how that blast off. >> look into late night tonight. coming up -- >> it's going to be a late night unless the red sox hit four or five slams. democrats hit another roadblock and they're pushed to pass the president's agenda. will biden's plan get cut from the multi trillion dollars reconciliation package because of a 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>> well, we know and we have seen all along what manchin wants he gets. he's one of the crucia ones on the entire package. he has a ton of leverage. this policy of clean electricity program, it really is the core of the climate provision. it's designed to pay electricity to shutdown coal and gas plants and sort of slowly year over year transition to win solar nuclear clean energy. end game for this program is cut the use of the fossil fuels that is are apart of his home state economy and you know i think for several weeks, there was a sense that maybe senator manchin would be able to -- that would kind of throw a lifeline to those fossil fuels, didn't seem to happen. it seems like over the weekend, the people that i talked to who said this thing is really dead. and an answer to other questions, there are other provisions in there. there are about $300 billion in tax incentives and benefits for renewable energy for -- >> the problem of this is it's a lot of throwing a lot of money into green energy. if you take out this provision, you don't have any sticks or penalty or punishment for taking away this -- it significantly weaken those climate provisions. >> our coral davenport. thank you very much. >> jonathan lemirelemire, this extremely important to president biden and john kerry is leading the effort on climate change. how much of a hit does that part of the biden's agenda takes of what manchin wants? >> the white house aide are trying to figure out other ways to include climate provisions. it's going to be a blow for the president in just two week's time heading to scotland in years. it will be difficult for him to say the u.s. has return to its state of leadership on climate change. if he walks in there empty handed, look, we could not do it at home, how can we ask you all to do it. this stuff is as tough stretch. the next two weeks is crucial for this president, that summit is looming and he wants to show progress on these bills before then and the congressional deadline to get the bipartisan bill signed. they want to show real progress on the reconciliation package. and also virginia's governor race and there is real concern right now where terry mcauliffe stands. >> yeah, you know, reverend al, let's talk pure politics here. you got joe manchin who represents west virginia, he was governor to west virginia a couple of terms. that's where he's grown up. that's where he lived his entire life. it's not brooklyn. it's not san francisco. coal has been king there the entire time. it has a drop precipitously, the coal jobs have been leaving states precipitously. u.s. car emissions have dropped 33% since 2005 according to carnegie melon. coal is one of the main reasons why, get a lot of the coal plants offline. and so let's talk politics. progressives across the country can try to move manchin on this as much as they want whether they like it or they hate it. i don't think they're going to push him any further on this coal issue and they're going to probably have to look to other issues environmentally to get him moving because obviously it's going to be hard for him to go back and say i know all the coal jobs are going away, we'll make them go away at a faster rate. >> in my discussion with some of the progressives that want to see something done and in my meeting with senator manchin where this has come up and our meetings have been more around the voting rights issue and and reform. i want to get where we are in good place in terms of what we are doing is right for the environment. i got to bring a lot of my constituents and a lot of the coal industry in my state along with me and don't rush me when i am getting people to move in the right direction, you can't ask them to commit financial suicide. let's work together where we can sustain and do what's right for the environment. that seems to be manchin's message. some of those on the environmental side are saying let's see where we can work with this. others are saying my way or the highway. there is no way we can compromise and having a good environment, you have to get people there in a way where you don't pull the ropes under them in terms of in coming and financial standing at the same time. the balance has to be found here. >> rev, let's talk generally about this, we saw a lot of people talking about it this weekend and we are about to read it in ma chapel hill's gol berg's op-ed. they're not going to change sinema either. they can holdup the infrastructure bill and say we are not going to pass what we want. they're not going to move on that. they're just not. i do wonder with a close virginia governor race and with joe biden's approval rating dropping, progressives have been given a clear signal message for manchin and sinema. they need 50 votes and they need to pass it in the house. they're not connecting the two bills together. the question is under any circumstances so the question is do democrats leave a $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill on the table and just completely fail this year? do they pass the infrastructure bill and give terry mcauliffe something to campaign across pennsylvania and give joe biden something and get back to work on the reconciliation bill. they're not going to be linked by the people who matters the most anyway. >> there is no progress in losing it there. let's start there. certainly those are the ground whether those concerning of policing or voting or environment or whatever it is are not going to feel great about you took a champion stance and fail us. by the way, do we press them or do we get as much as we can? absolutely. you never take your foot off the gas. do we say that the progressives' caucus have been unusually and admirably patient? people are suffering. these are real people with real problems that we have been elected to try to deal with. there is a difference between progressives and fanatics and i think that some people just want to make their point no matter what and they careless about the people they claim to speak for. you can't lead people you don't really like. >> mika, i have said it to republicans so many times in my life, saying it to democrats and progressives who have shown an awful a lot ofpatience. bismarck have said it. politics is the art of the impossible and the art of the unattainable, it's the art of the next best. what's possible? time is running out. >> yeah. >> time is running out in virginia. time is running out for this session of congress. >> uh-huh. >> it's time to stop talking about what ought to be and start focusing on what is. what's the best deal you can get out of what is, not what ought to be. >> in her latest column for the new york times, jayapal won't let the biden presidency fail. michelle goldberg writes in part, if progressives are able to save back the bulk of build back better, biden's presidency will be transformative but if progressives fail to come to an agreement with manchin and sinema, the biden's presidency will fail as well. the stage will be set. the divide in congress is not between progressive and moderates. indeed it's precisely because democrats are not divided. let's bring the host of donny deutsche and patrick escobar, good to have you both this morning. >> patrick, we got a $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill. i personally believe by talking to both sides, talking to the white house, there is probably a $1.8 trillion deal to be done on reconciliation, that's a total of $3 trillion in 2001 following up on $5.4 trillion, i mean 2021 following up $5.4 trillion in 2020. can't democrats figure out how to frame that as a win because it will create jobs and it will transform this economy. >> you know joe, you are obviously a great negotiator but in this round, neither you and i have anything here. we are talking about progressives verses moderate and on climate, take back one second and think about this. this summer alone, one out of every three americans, not folks in san francisco facing some kind of climate weather disaster that caused $1 billion for each disaster, a total of 18 disasters for our country. we got to get something done for our climate. it's hard to do that without the ceep in that. let's think about this for a second. the tax incentives, ten years on clean energy that will significantly burn down emissions and create jobs in this country and get us closer from moving away from our disaster. on the broader discussion is 96% of democrats in the house and senate are on board with these bills. i know that senator manchin, i know that he believes there needs to be investment in our infrastructure and around energy. i believe at the end of the day, he'll negotiate to get child care credits and move us further away from the climate disaster that we are facing. we are going to make the progress. you can't check your swing. you got to swing all the way through and i am confident that democrats will swing it through here. >> patrick, how do they do that? they need manchin on board. he already said where he is and i agree with you. i support what you are talking about. i think climate change is a crisis and it's a disaster unfolding before our eyes. it continues to get worse. i do want to say the united states cut emissions by a third since 2005. we have made great progress. we need to pull china and india and other countries forward and that way as well. i look at other issues like universal background checks. that has a 90% approval rating since newtown. we have not seen things done there. i don't know -- i don't know how we pass the legislation without the votes and right now we don't have the votes to pass climate change legislation so what do democrats do? >> let's be clear, we have the votes now to continue to make progress on the tax incentives that'll make significant on climate change. senator manchin have talked about the lead for those incentives. he made the hard line very clear on energy and child care tax. there is opportunities here and responsibility to negotiate. i think the senator from west virginia and arizona are participating in good faith negotiations but have to play out the next two weeks. this is not a drive-thru where you go in and order your super size burger and move on. we are not getting the $3.5 trillion passed. we can get there on child care tax credits and on expanding medicaid and making certain that we pass the climate test of reducing emissions significantly by 2030. senator manchin has said the right things on most of those and we got a little bit of time to get the rest of the way there. >> and donny, senator manchin would say he said the right things and so would sinema for their constituents on all of those things. you have two democrats who are moderates and from the state to donald trump get 69% in and another from maricopa county which has been hard red now turning purple. they're not moving though, we have seen this for well over a month. in fact, they're not only gaining support back at home. they're gaining contributions for not moving. it's not like they're hurting them politically to be seen as the ball work against what many constituents to be a run away. you have the work with the system and not the system you wish you had. it's no excuse for making a mess of what should be a moment of achievement and donny, i ask the same question of you, can't democrats figure out a way to turn $3 trillion in spending and hard infrastructure and human infrastructure. can they figure out a way to make that a victory for the american people? >> certainly hope so. first, stepping back a little bit, they sold this bill, you don't call a bill of $3.5 trillion. that does not mean anything. i would call it the children's first bill whether 80% of it climate or tax care and healthcare comes back to helping children. second of all, you have to make the deal. here is what's at stakes here. people got to understand what we are staring at and the potential donald trump's presidency coming back. you can pass this as a victory. i actually believe in that donald trump ran against biden, he'll win. this is not the time for democrats to be lurching left. this is a time for them to grow up and understand what is at stake here and get this deal done. >> so on the republican side there is talk that president trump may run again as we are here at the top of the hour. this is interesting. perhaps some republican leaders souring on the former president, take a look at this. >> you assume president trump will run in 2024? >> he's certainly saying he's going to. whether he does or not, we don't know. >> if he runs, he'll win the nomination -- >> i don't know that, president trump is the first to lose the presidency in four years, elections are about winning. >> that's super interesting. >> you think if he ran, he can lose the nomination? >> well, if you want to win the presidency and hopefully that's what voters are thinking about. i think he might. >> it's clear you are not voting for him. >> i am not. . >> relitigating 2020 is a recipe of disaster. let's talk about the future, the election is past, it's certified. it's about the future and not about the last election. those kinds of comments are not constructive. asa hutchinson pushing back on donald trump's continued attempt to discredit the 2020 election. before that, we heard from bill cassidy of louisiana who's not so sure trump would win the nomination if he runs again. last week trump said republican voters will not come out to vote in 2022 and 2024 if the party does not back his fully debunked claims that he won the election. you notice that cassidy there basically making clear that he did not win the election. he lost. he lost over and over and over again for the republican party. he said it clearly, plain as day. >> right, senator cassidy said it and governor hutchinson sid it. donny, you will notice you have two republicans, a governor and a senator and they were not from massachusetts and vermont. they were from arkansas and louisiana. i do think again when you have a situation that you saw donald trump, why did donald trump lose in 2020? he lost because as ron johnson, your good friend from wisconsin said, he said because there were a lot of republicans who just would not vote for him. there were like 55,000 or 60,000 republicans voted for every other republican candidate and would not vote for donald trump. and so when you have that as a situation in 2020 and you have some of these people breaking off, does donald trump still own the republican party? yes. but that republican party is a lot smaller and a lot less influential and more educated americans and if you look at the polling number, again, i know everybody is scared of donald trump. it just does not seem like the trends are going well for him in terms of putting together coalition that could win. >> here is the fact. if the republicans ran anybody but donald trump, they would win in a landslide. >> anybody. >> anybody. donny, nobody have said this enough. you go back and look at 2020, democrats were shocked by how badly they under performed in the house and shocked how they performed in the senate. donald trump had to work overtime to make mitch mcconnell the minority leader in georgia, they had to work overtime to lose that. they did very well. republicans had a pretty, darn good election cycle in 2020 despite the fact they should have been a wiped off the face of the political of the earth because of the insanity and the neo-fascium. >> if anybody except for trump ran, they would have won by 20 points. >> i want to see polls with nikki haley or ron desantis or fill in the blank and they'll win by double digits. i live in this bubble and this merry kind of blue state and i can't tell you the unrest of the feeling the democrats are running things away and biden not putting his hands on the wheel. if republicans are smart, can they and will they? you and i don't know that. if they did, it would be a landslide. >> wow. >> i want to say this and there are a lot of people -- >> bring it out here. >> here is donny, living in the upper east side and he's rich and he's got weird art behind him. >> a lot of dogs. >> donny got that home by understanding what american wants as far as brands go and understanding how to connect to americans and i will say this, and you may not like a former republican saying this with an ad exec saying this, a branding guru saying this. listen to me, it's really important to understand you were radically out of step. radically out of step with main stream voters. there is a reason why a guy from west virginia and conservative moderate from arizona made you the majority along with two people in georgia who were made winners by donald trump. donny, i want the go back to this, you and i have been around the same circles and at times, i am not the same new york city guy. we have been to dinners and book events the past 15 years, i can tell you there were so many times when it was just unanimously and i would hear it and roll my eyes. democrats, good guys and republicans bad guys. democrats rational and republicans crazy. democrats on issues right where we are. all i have heard, all i have heard over the past year has been remarkable. i am going to grip my teeth and vote for joe biden because donald trump is a threat to the american way of life. but, if i had any excuse to vote against the democrats, i would do it because they are so progressive and so wildly out of step with mainstream america. i am not talking about brooklyn, i understand there are pockets where that progressivism needs to be represented and we need progressiism represented in congress. i am talking about the national party. i have never heard such unrest in all my life against my party as i am against a democratic party because of their policies and how wildly out of step of mainstream america and i am going get killed on twitter today, guess what, guess what? i don't care. twitter is not mainstream america. donny, i am hearing this from lifelong liberals, lifelong progressives. >> this is the world i live in. i live on the upper east side manhattan, it could not be more navy blue. this is what i am hearing. there were bill clinton voters, they were antitrump voters. joe biden does not have the heart and mind of this country. the other democrats we have seen, the aoc of the world and far left are suicides for the democrats. the democrats better get some new faces and better figure out this world lives right at center or on a good year left of center and the socialist pulling all tl way to the left is a disaster. we are staring at a democracy in peril. if we don't get this right in 2024, it ain't ever going to be right. we should be sounding the alarm bells. our democracy are at stakes and democrats need to understand. >> it's not dramatic to say patrick. i am sure you would agree on one thing and that is many people believe our democracy is at stake. it's important that democrats figure out the right balance. the question is how do they get that with joe biden and how do they bring more americans into make sure 2024 does not go the way of 2016? >> thanks joe, you are right, mitch mcconnell, the republican party represents existential threat of our country. there were back steps making on climate and the economy overall. let's also understand that donald trump is not a general election problem for republicans. he's a primary problem. donald trump has captured the hearts and souls of the primary electors now. as far as progressives are concerned, 70% of the measures have widespread popularity with americans. that's americans in arizona and americans in minnesota that are represented by moderates like senator mark kelly. responsible and thoughtful legislatures who understand that we are at an existential threat for our climate. progressives understand they're not getting a $3.5 trillion bill but they do know we have to expand medicaid, we got to make progress on child care and we need to continue to move the needle on climate change. i think that's going to happen here. all right, patrick gasbarb and donny deutsche, thank you for being with us. "the washington post" reports that nearly weekly meetings with white house officials, supporters expressed frustration with the president's lack of aggression and focus on the issues especially republican-led states enacting new voting laws. activists want biden to have a loud voice against these moves. beyond that, they say he should throw himself into passing voting rights legislation and more aggressively go after states that are politicizing their election systems. the senate is expected to take up voting rights legislation this week but it will face another republican filibuster. joining us, robert costa, he's the coauthor of the new york times' best seller, "peril," thank you guys for being here. let's talk about the tragedy that unfolded with britain with the beloved member of parliament being killed in a terror attack. >> yeah, this was a second killing in a few years. he was killed by a far right activist. he was doing what every member parliament in britain routinely does which is holding surgeries. it means anybody who lives in that district and constitueny can come to talk to them once or twice a week in an open place about anything they want to talk about. it's a key part of the face-to-face quality of british democracy. his killing is actually the first in five years. the level of hate and the number of threats and the malice in the air against elected representatives whether they are liberal or conservative, it's across the board. the hostility towards politicians. it's surprising there has not been more than these two tragic killings. now i think we are going to see something very sad which is members of parliament when they hold these open discussions with their constituents being protected by far more heavy security presence than we have ever seen before. this is something pretty new if you exclude the ira terrorist campaign in the '70s and '80s which were significant. british politics have been very peaceful and retailed and that i think is changing now. it's something much more menacing. >> so sir david was a beloved member, i have been since '73. i guess your father knew him and you ran across him from time to time. he's as conservative catholic, pro-life and a huge advocate of animal rights there. he was one of the beloved members of parliament. >> he was. he had specific views and he was a classic, he represented everybody who lived in his district constituency. he was beloved by people in all sides of the spectrum in his area, including the local mosques. if you see statements from local mosque leaders, they were broken. he did exactly what members of parliament should do, represented and listened to everybody. that's not what every politician does. he was a special one in that respect and many others. it's a real tragedy. >> yeah, let me ask you about this, i am curious and you obviously written the book with woodward of donald trump, the chaos unfolding. we had clips of asa hutchinson and senator bill cassidy from louisiana saying forget about the past, it's time to move forward. i wonder how much you read into those sorts of statements? >> joe, in those statements from the governor and senator, we heard what top republicans have said. now it's important to watch what they actually do, remember it was ten years ago, donald trump was having his birther life about president obama and many republicans wagged the finger at him at the time saying that was not the right thing to say but they still welcomed his endorsement in 2016. look at their fund raising e-mails from the top ranks and the major party organizations still using trump's name working hand in hand to raise money and build a party infrastructure and not pushing back on his efforts to convince many republicans across the country to state the 2020 election was a lie and stolen. >> this is interesting and there is been some polling that comes out that suggests more and more republicans want former president trump to be a fixture in the party but a little less interested in him being the nominee in 2024. >> you are going to need someone with a political capitol to beat him. many thinks that trump is a fading brand. does he have the political will and the capital to other it is to push trump off the stage? you look at "the washington post" story on trump, someone like pompeo echoing trump in many ways. so many other republicans echoing him that the election was stolen. top strategists may say hey, we don't want him in 2024 but what are they doing? congressman adam kinzinger is investigating the january 6th insurrection is not ruling out issuing a subpoena for former president donald trump. here is what he had to say on cnn. >> we know that's going to be a circus, that's not something we want to do up front but if he has pieces of information that we need, we certainly will. >> thompson said something similar last week, nobody is off limits to subpoenas. there is even the concern that people are dragged into testify, it could backfire, i am not sure if you can hedge on accountability at this time, what are you hearing when you speak to democrats who really want some accountability on january 6th in terms of come compelling people to come in and testify. >> if house republicans win the majority next year, they don't want to be dragged in front. they know if you give a platform to someone through testimonies the echo the president's claim and talk about the election being stolen in their eyes, that's not helpful to american democracy. all that said, they believe there has to be accountability, at least when you talk to top democrats and house democrats that this was an insurrection at the u.s. capitol. it's not accountability now. when will that happen? >> then when? yes, absolutely. joining us now, former assistant of the united states attorney for the southern district of new york, daniel goldman. good to see you again. same topic for you, as we watch this sort of attempt accountability in i think the culmination of four years where accountability is hard to come by. what are we going to see when it comes to those, the committee members want to hear testify about the attack on the capitol, the attack as many put it on our democracy? >> i think what we are seeing is a culmination of a fire that really came to head when donald trump essentially just decided that he was above congressional subpoena and everyone who worked for him did not need to comply with him. that is different than what has happened before and so that changed the whole tenor of congressional subpoena enforcement. last conditioning, the house went to court to try to enforce the subpoena in particular against don mcgahn. the house won but it took so long that by the time they won, it was almost irrelevant. now they are recognizing the courts are in efficient and slow. there is legislation that has been introduced that'll expedite that process but it has not been passed. so they're taking a new task and they're going to the department of justice to ask the department of justice to prosecute people and steve bannon in this situation who defies congressional subpoenas. it's a mechanism that can use since it's rarely used. it's not only to show bannon he needs to testify or he faces prosecution but also he has a deterrent effect against anyone else who wants to defy congressional subpoenas they now know they may be referred to the department of justice and may be prosecuted if they don't show up for system. >> that should apply to republicans and democrats, either congress has subpoena power or it does not. daniel, thank you so much for being was. we greatly appreciate your insights. reverend al, frustration over voting rights, getting modified version of hr-1 through. you got democrats very focused on trying to strike a deal on infrastructure on reconciliation plan and after that they got to get into voting rights. have you seen any progress at all on figuring out a way to alter the filibuster or make difference or make some sort of difference that would protect the rights of americans to vote and stop legislatures from being able to disenfranchise anybody they chose to disenfranchise in the counting of those photo votes after the election? >> there is been some talk at the white house. the frustration has been making this a priority, it seems as though it has been pushed to the back burner. this week there will be a vote on the freedom to vote act which has some good things in it. i think senator manchin evn supported of it. what really frustrating and troubling which a lot of us are escalating our efforts is that states are going forward, changing election restrictions as we speak. so we can not add one hand say that we got to do this in a way that we understand it takes time and the president can come out everyday and the other hand, people are changing laws as we go. we need the president and others to make this a priority and we need to keep this public and the president needs to speak up often and loudly to make it happen. >> and for anybody that argues republicans have the right and state legislatures have the right to change the law any way they want. that sets an ignorant reading o f the constitution, they can't do whatever they want. just not count certain votes because maybe district went to democratic or have a different set of electors, that's obviously going to create massive court challenges and if 2020 was any indication, they'll fail in federal court from the lowest levels of the united states. reverend al was talking about a log jam on voting rights, $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill. there is a log jam on the reconciliation bill, there seems to be a log jam on everything joe biden is passing now. democrats have the control to pass all of this and just are not doing it right now. what is and how do things look as we move towards the end of october? >> well, this halloween deadline, pelosi announced when the last effort fails in september is not a hard and fast deadline. there is the expiring o f transportation funding which is linked to. if you remember back to what i think is an elevated tax trump cut in 2017, he did it right before christmas. it's often the case these deadlines succeeded by a new one. i don't think it's the end of the line. i do think it's a pity biden will be going to this summit with not very much in his hands to show what we can do to combat climate change. that does get us back to manchin. joe, you and i may have a disagreement on manchin. if he does manage to strip this electricity provision which is the most important for the reconciliation bill out of it. i can't think of a single act by a senator could have more negative global pressure on that. i hope the pressure will help him change his mind. it's the single most important climate change action that biden is intending to take. it was postponed last year because of the pandemic. at this critical moment in global climate change diplomacy. >> i would guess we don't really have a difference of opinion on that legislation. by comments had more to do with counting to 50 and being able to count to 218 in the house and figuring out what to do not to be left empty handed. you had a senator from a coal burning state who had seen a lot of jobs getting away and the u.s. cutting emissions by a third. i wonder what the art of possible is. tell me what do you think, what is the compromise and middle ground, a state that seen thousands and thousands of coal jobs go away over the past decade. how does a representative from that state, republican or democrat, if democrats are still getting elected in west virginia, what do they say to constituents? yes, i know, you lost most of your jobs, we'll faze these jobs completely out by 2030. >> what puzzles me here is west virginia has enormous of a natural resources including when, creating a high paying jobs. these are good paying jobs that would replace the coal jobs that are vanishing, you can show how quickly the remaining 15,000 jobs also vanished, here is a whole new horizon of direct investment in energy that americans need and west virginia could supply and many could look at old provisions at the reconciliation bill which would be beneficial to west virginians. why is the pressure not put on manchin more directly. i think maybe i am being too cynical here. the power of corporate meddling in the content of this bill and gerrymandering mindset, it's huge. this is you no why americans are so alienated from politics because most of the provisions in this bill polls very well and including west virginia. they are getting more down and thinking of medicare and negotiating without a prescription drug crisis. this is something that overwhelming the american support. i think there is politics here that is not being played. >> and i got to say and by the way, since when you heard manchin say time again that big pharma should have to negotiate here prices. that's something sinema opposes and is standing in the way of. yes, it's outrageous that big pharma gets a free pass, the united states government wheeling extraordinary leverage for any industry wants to get that market share and the fact that we are not getting rock bottom prices is outrageous and it's so corrupt and cynical. i could not agree with you more. i want to finish off the segment donny and i went on and on about how progressives, the democratic party is and i have talked in the past about inflation pressure. i found your view and approach as somebody i consider to be responsible and fiscally moderate. you look at this $3.5 trillion bill quite differently than i do or steve ratner or donny deutsche on the show. you believe when you look at the years that it's spread out and the lack of investment the united states made, this is actually a very wise step forward for us as a nation economically, explain why. >> yes, thanks for laying it out that way. the idea that if we don't do, we are being physically responsible is back to front. the cost of dealing with climate change, the social cost of dealing with parents and one sick mother who can't get child care for their kids. the sit over spit over effect ae change that's multiply higher than what's being proposed in this bill. it's a full economy. it regards the inflation aspect of this. if you are raising the number of women who could enter the labor force and stay in the labor force, that's not inflationary. that's productively boosting. if you are boosting productivity, you are improving the efficiency of the economy. we are looking at the fiscal element of this in the wrong way. we are discussing the number is quite misleading and they're turning to five or six years number. for the most part, there is some gimmicks in there for sure. the revenue side, the tax side is i think is legitimate and i don't think it's jobs killing or entrepreneur killing. i don't think donny and his friends in new york are going to be disincentivized by this bill. i do think it's being framed the wrong way. i don't think most centrist democrats agree it's inflation. it's a mitch mcconnell's talking point. >> thank you so much, we'll be reading your latest columns for the financial times. robert costa, thank you as well. the new book of course is "peril." still ahead on "morning joe," republican governors who have been pushing to block covid-19 vaccine mandates are seeing their support slips. hospitals and administrators saying the mandates are working. we'll talk to one hospital's ceo who says he has no regrets about requiring covid vaccinations. one of the two candidates, michelle wu will be our guest. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. g joe," we'll be right back. ♪ i'm a reporter for the new york times. if you just hold it like this. yeah. ♪ i love finding out things that other people don't want me to know. mm-hmm. [beep] i just wanted to say... ♪ find yourself in these situations and see who you are. and that's just part of the bargain. ♪ ♪ feel stuck and need a loan? move to sofi and feel what it's like to get your money right. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ move to a sofi personal loan. earn $10 just for viewing your rate — and get your money right. ♪ vo: the damage it's causing is undeniable... and get your money right. climate change. and with the build back better act, congress can tackle it head on. with tax credits for clean energy companies that create millions of new jobs... ...and ramp up new technology and clean energy manufacturing. it means families pay less for utilities... ...and america becomes the global leader in clean energy it's time to build back better. and that means taking on climate change. with clean energy jobs congress: let's get this done the insurance company enwasn't fair.ity y ca i didn't know what my case was worth, so i called the barnes firm. llll theararnes rmrm now the best result possible. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ i d d so my y quesonons eouout hicacase.y y son, ♪ call one eight hundred, cacalledhehe bars s fillion ♪ i d d soit was the best call eouout hii could've made. call the barnes firm and find out what your case all could be worth.uld've made. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ before his passing, kevin had one tragic regret. he called me up and said, mom, i love you and i wish i gotten the shot. kevin had repeatedly brushed off his parents' advice to get vaccinated. his wife died earlier this month because of the virus. kevin was killed by a few days later, now his mother and other relatives of the late couple are urging those who have yet to be vaccinated to get the shot. >> you see younger people getting covid, we are just going over the whole situation and i said of course, you don't have younger people really still getting it that much and he cut me off and said, joe, it's antidotal. >> there are so many stories i heard of, a 42-year-old friend died of covid. healthy guy. we are hearing a lot more of delta surge of younger people getting hit with this and having bad complications in a way i didn't hear so much during the first way. >> for the delta it's so highly transmissible and infectious. it can be brutal. i check the number once in a while, good news, infections are going down and they're going down significantly over the past month. you look at a state like florida, it's gone down significantly, you look at nationwide, the numbers are going down. my only concern is we had our great spike in the middle of summer last year and late december, i am hopeful that enough people get vaccinated and take special precautions over the holiday season. so we don't see anymore stories like this. people can enjoy their thanksgiving and christmas holiday season. >> stoking fears of a labor shortage. many hospitals across the country saying a vaccine mandate is working. 41 hospitals have some sorts of vaccine mandates. they have seen the coronavirus infections and sick leaves noticeably dropped. at houston methodist, one of the first american healthcare institutions to require covid vaccination for workers, the backlash was short lived. more than 150 employees were fired but the president and the ceo of the hospital says the 98% of staff have been vaccinated and dr. boone is joining us now. would you agree that the number of infections going down because people are getting vaccinated. >> i am pleased to see the number going down and rapidly, vaccines are mostly a big part of that story. that's the good news. we would like to hang onto that and like to make sure we do the right thing and keep safe. we have a long way to go to get many people vaccinated to really be able to put this in our rear view mirror. i want to talk to you about mandates and effectiveness of mandates. infections are going down, is there a concern and what's the advise for people who say look it's going away, look at the graphs, it's pointing downward, i don't need to get vaccinated. >> i don't think we see that story too many times. the virus will spread to people who do not have protection. it's critically important that we keep stepping forward and get vaccinated. we have used these vaccines now in hundreds of people in the united states and along billions now. they are amazingly safe. the safest vaccines we have seen and the safest drugs and the most studied drugs we have ever seen getting fda approve. i would urge people to continue to step forward and get vaccinated. >> you were early on the vaccine mandate, can you tell us and really speaking to other businesses and hospitals about why the mandate is the best option, why it works? >> we were the first hospital in the system to mandate. we completed june 7th, we have a benefit to see what a terrible surge is like with all of our employees vaccinated with .6% leave, that was all. a small number. the rest, 98 plus percent vaccinated. we saw the impact. we were able to preserve a critical work force during a terrible surge. reestimated of any given time, we have 26,000 employees, we have 300 or 400 people preserved to work had otherwise been sick had we not mandated that vaccine. that's a dramatic number. we also saw our own employees, we have 2% that have not been vaccinated. the people who were not vaccinated, 44 times likely to get admitted to the hospital this summer. the vaccines work and they allow us a hospital system to fulfill our obligations to keep our patients safe. i am proud of the men and women who stepped forward and did the right thing. >> that obligation and if you are working at the hospital, chances are you are aware of the science and of your own health as you are dealing with patients. i am curious of the 150 who left. what did you hear about why? >> yeah, you know i am a primary care physician myself. that's a great disappointment that even within our hospital system with long standing trust and with the science that we believe in firmly and that we follow for everything we do clinically that we were not able to move the opinions of those individuals to the right place. it shows how strong the misinformation campaign is out there is about vaccines. i turn on the tv and look at the internet and i open the paper and all i see are quotes from people who are spreading misinformation about vaccines. if we follow the science and we listen to the physicians and listen to the scientists, there is no doubt everybody should be getting vaccinated at this point in time. 96% to 97% of physicians vaccinated, they are voting with their feet and leading by example. if we got 96% or 97% of the community vaccinated, we would not be talking about covid anymore. >> dr. marc boom, thank you so much. let's turn now to one key race for mayor that'll be decided, new polling shows michelle wu leading her city council colleague annissa george by 32% including across the demographics. we'll take a look at this race, candidate michelle wu is joining us now. thank you so much for being on this morning. >> i got to ask the question first, how are the red sox are going to do tonight and do you think their bullpen can holdup the next few nights. these are the questions you must answer. >> we are at home, we are at home, we are going to do it. >> michelle, talk about the challenges facing boston and if you are elected, what do you think the key challenges that you are going to face are? >> look, we are still very much the thick of going up way too quickly. a school system that needs investments and supports. police reform that our communities deserve and require, and climate change. as a coastal city our vulnerabilities are deep, and we have the opportunity to create many, many jobs if we lean in here. >> michelle, we've seen, obviously, over the past year, along with much-needed calls for police reform, we've also seen real quality of life issues. a lot of police departments saying they're not getting the support of officials. they're on their back heels. crime, obviously, has escalated, especially murder rates. homelessness. quality of life issues that obviously are so important to people you're going to be representing if you get elected, how do you address those two quality of life issues, homelessness as well as crime? >> in boston we have the oldest first police force in the country, and we pioneered the idea of community policing, of needing to build trust with residents as the foundation for safety and justice. now is a moment where we have to address the fact that public safety and health are directly intertwined and connected. that means we can't keep people safe unless we're focussed on keeping peel healthy as well. i'm only in the political sphere because i've lived the challenges as one who raised my mother with mental illness. i know in the crisis moments, particularly when it's mental illness, homelessness, substance abuse, we need to be addressing those services with a public health-led approach, and that means getting our budgets and getting the accountability and transparency from within the department so our resources can be going to people in the way that's meeting them where they're at. >> michelle, al sharpton. you said about police building the public's trust again as well as dealing with the issues of safety, you were responding to joe's question. how do you directly plan to deal with the questions of building the public trust? there have been some police incidents in boston. but at the same time, people are concerned about their safety, and areas in boston that has had a higher crime rate than others. >> absolutely. across the city the data shows black and brown residents are more likely to be stopped, are disproportionately affected, over surveilled. i've led the way on the city council of passing legislation to ban racial discriminatory surveillance to move for accountability and community oversight of public safety actions as well as to ensure that we are putting our resources to a public health-led response. we have had a number of initiatives and community voices leading this conversation in the last months and years. i just sat yesterday with our police reform task force who issued a set of very clear recommendations for how to continue standing up our office of independent accountability that will be a civilian review board and will are provide the oversight as well as to have some important decisions ahead. we are currently without a permanent police commissioner in boston. that will be one of the most important decisions the next mayor makes as well as diving into negotiating new police union contract. this is where we must embed accountability and transparency, and i am ready to ep sure that we can centering justice as we take the lead. >> boston mayoral candidate, michelle wu. thank you for being with us. and her opponent in the race is scheduled to join us tomorrow morning. and now time for something completely different. >> let's bring in nbc sports analyst and co-host of ben in blazers, roger bennett. roger, ronaldo, he comes back to man you, and you can almost hear blaring the cat stevens song morning has broken. across the stadium and yet, things are going terribly wrong. why is man you so adrift with ronaldo. >> the premier league is back. manchester united like the hbo succession played out live by men in cleats. united by the buccaneers and 90 minutes in, they took the lead. mason greenwood pounding a shot that even jeff bezos would look at and feel rocket envy. should have gone to spas on the back of that beauty. but lester, joe, i love this impoel they're going to goal to equalize by the little belgian. look at it. the ball is going to come to him. doesn't look. no look. perfect. dispatch first time. michelangelo masterpiece. football. the game would be tied 2-2 until the third minute when jamie went full on squid game. we've already come too far to end this now. and manchester united with ronaldo, four losses in the last seven. you want to look at liverpool football club owned by the boston red sox. they maintain form. an ecstatic rampage capped by moe sala. >> unbelievable. unbelievable. >> he can jive, having the time of his life. this is not choreographed. this is a man no -- he wants to be like fred jestaire. he'll never dance alone. this is exquisite. he is a gorgeous human being. the best player in world football right now. there is no doubt. a big story that solves geo politics, the middle east, the premier league, new castle united. taken over by a public investment arm of the saudi arabian government. it was taken over in front of the stadium. public urging of amnesty international. joy. they look like brazil in disguise. liquid football, but all that football soon turns to ashes in new castle's mouth. first what's known in the trade as a wolf blitzer. straight into the situation room. and then england's captain, struck one for tottenham. new castle suddenly the richest team in the premier league with saudi arabian backing. this was a reality check for a story of geo politics, human rights, and nations attempting to wash their image into imploebl sports. it's like watching football stare into the abyss. >> as you say all too often, you look at the top four or five, it matches straight up with their payroll. expect new castle in the coming years to be the top four or five. we have a tight race up top. liverpool second. chelsea doing well. you are right. sala has scored of the past two weeks two of his greatest goals. he is at another level. >> he is at another level. we took ra naul duck talk about ronaldo and massie. the red sox don't have the money of the oligarchs and chics but they've taken the money ball approach and put it over a filter of their incoming transfers, and you can think your way to greatness. >> all right, roger. reborn in the usa. thank you so much. >> i still don't understand half of what he says, but we love him. >> coming up, former president bill clinton has been released from a california hospital. we'll have an update on his health. >> plus president biden urges the justice department to prosecute anyone who defies the subpoena from the house select committee investigating the january 6th insurrection. but the doj is pushing back. we'll explain why. we're back in 90 seconds with a packed 8:00 a.m. hour. "morning joe." it is monday, october 18th. with us we have host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. also with us white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lamire. we begin with an update on the condition of former president bill clinton. he was released from the hospital after spending a number of days for getting a treatment for an infection. it is really good news. we have more. >> reporter: the 42nd president is back home after a health scare led to five nights in a california hospital. with a thumbs up and with hillary on his arm, former president bill clinton walked showily out of a medical center thanking a line of health care workers one by one. his doctor reporting his fever and white blood cell count are normalized. the 75-year-old was in town and felt ill tuesday in fact he was diagnosed with a urinary tract infection that spread to his bloodstream. describe the gravity of something like this for someone at 75. >> when older individuals develop those kinds of infections, they can very quickly become life threatening. and then the hospitalization becomes much more significant. >> reporter: the two-term president has a history of heart problems. in 2004 he had a quadruple bypass. prompting lifestyle changes and becoming vegan. >> i've been give an new lease on life. >> reporter: over the weekend clinton receiving calls from former president bush and v.p. gore. the current administration also assured by his progress. >> he seems to be god willing doing well. >> reporter: progress that's cleared clinton to head home. >> all right. and the house select committee investigating the january 6th insurrection will convene tomorrow evening to devote on adopting a contempt repor over a former trump -- president biden weighed in on friday on whether the justice department should prosecute those who defy such subpoenas. >> what's your message to people who defy subpoenas on the january 6th committee. >> i hope the committee goes after them and holds them accountable. >> reporter: should they be prosecuted by the justice department? >> yes. >> the doj responded with a statement that underscored the wall of separation from the white house, saying the department of justice will make its own independent decisions in all prosecutions based solely on the facts and the law, period, full stop. >> jonathan lamire, the president came out and was making, it seemed, was making recommendations or at least giving his opinion to what the justice department should do. we saw very quickly the difference in the justice departments now and under donald trump. they came out immediately and said fine, make your own opinions. >> i was among those reporters at the white house when the president said that. it was surprising but let's be clear. this is him uttering his opinion. this is different than what donald trump used to do when he was in office. he tried to use the department of justice as his personal lawyer firm and going after his political opponent. the doj wanted to make that clear. there's a bright line between the west wing and main justice, and they're not going to interfere. that's been the tone from this administration and from the start. they felt like president biden has said that one of the more damaging legacies of the trump administration was the fact that americans lost faith in institutions with the department of justice near the top with the way that jeff sessions and bill bar ran the place. and that he wants to make sure that they're independent and have no interference. that has been their tone throughout the process. that said, january 6th is something this white house cares deeply about. that's why they would not let former president trump use executive privilege to help his allies called before the select committee in the house. and he, himself, may, trump, face the same fate. there's deliberations right now. they want the investigation to be thorough and fair to send some sort of message that behavior like this won't be tolerated again with more elections on the horizon and real fears about whether republicans will certify the results if they don't like them. >> and then there's this. former president trump is scheduled to be deposed today in a lawsuit brought by demonstrators who were roughed up on camera by security working at trump tower back in 2015. the demonstrators were protesting trump's characterization of mexicans when he announced his run for president. let's bring in nbc news investigation reporter tom winter. tom, tell us about this specific deposition and how it relates to all the things that former president trump is facing and may have to be deposed for in the future. >> september 3rd, 2015, may not be a date that sticks out off the top of our heads, but if you remember, that was the day that the president kind of pledged his now president or former president, i should say trump, pledged his allegiance to the republican party. that was the time when he was kind of flirting with the idea of well, if the republican party -- >> we're going to drupt tom's remarks with breaking news. just breaking this story politician diplomat, four-star general colin powell has died of covid-related complications. this news just breaking right now. of course, joe, he was a family friend. he has served multiple presidents, both sides of the aisle. and was incredibly accomplished on the world stage. colin powell dying now of covid-related complications. his family just released a statement confirming this information. >> and colin powell had a dominant presence in american politics over the course of 30, 40 years. he first was -- came on to the national stage when he went to work for ronald reagan. later for george hrks wrks bush. he was an integral part of putting strategy together for the first gulf war, and played a pivotal role. he soon after the first gulf war along with norman schwartz cough and others seen as being successl commanders of that successful effort to take a-- iraq out of kuwait and liberate kuwait. he was in '95 and into '96, there were many people trying to persuade colin powell to run for president against bill clinton. he chose not to do that, but did once again get into the administration, get into the white house in 2001, working as secretary of state for george w. bush. according to a post on facebook, mika, the powell family broke the news this morning. >> the first, by the way, african american secretary of state. and the family says general colin powell, former u.s. secretary of state and chairman of the joint chiefs of staff passed away this morning due to complications from covid-19. he was fully vaccinated. he want to thank the medical staff at walter reed national medical center for their caring treatment. we have lost a remarkable, loving husband, father, grandfather, and a great american. the powell family. and the family pointing out, joe, that colin powell had been vaccinated and yet, still passed away due to covid-related complications. so i know a lot of the discussion we had this morning was on the data about infections going down. but obviously this latest breaking news shows how covid is still very much a part of the fabric of american life right now. >> right. and there are breakthrough cases. and certainly people with compromised immune systems, older americans as well, are still facing some complications and tragically, in the case of colin powell, and some others, sometimes die even after being vaccinated. colin powell, going back to his career, he was, again, one of the most respected voices in foreign policy through the years. obviously, mika, i know your father had the greatest respect for general powell, and as you said, first black secretary of state. he -- again, his reputation was burnished in the first iraq war, and he became really a spokesman for moderating force. there was a wineberger doctrine that was put out in the 1980s to try to avoid some of the mistakes we need in vietnam. colin powell was one who extended the doctrine. what he said is when the united states goes to war, they don't want a fair fight. and the powell doctrine was that you use overwhelming force. you achieve your stated goal, and then you bring the troops home. and it was a sort of thing that unfortunately we haven't listened to as a country, because colin powell also said, before you commit troops to battle, you have your end game already set out. what is the goal you seek to accomplish? and unfortunately, tragically, in the second iraq war, that didn't happen. colin powell, his unblemished reputation, did take a hit when he went before the united nations. and used information that was given to him by the bush administration, and by some members of the intel community to suggest that sad m hussein did, in fact, have weapons of mass destruction. they did not. that the something that general powell regretted. certainly regretted the rest of his life, but make no mistake, while that was a blemish on his resume, he served this country and served it providely. he was a trail blazer. i had the greatest of respect for him and looked up to. make no mistake of it, colin powell. a trail blazer not only in the u.s. military, but also in american politics. >> no question about it. he was a trail blazer. he and i were certainly of different politics, but i always respected him, and we always had respectable conversations. but people ought not to also forget that he was not only well-respected. he was very popular. i will never forget in the mid 90s, there was many that were urging him on the republican side to challenge bill clinton for bill clinton's reelection in 1996, and it seemed as though he might have done it. he was leading in the polls. so he was a dominant political presence. he was well-regarded because of his military background, and then when he became secretary of state, i remember when george bush won that election and they were going through the process of selecting the cabinet, i ran into colin powell in the cab toll building. he says give us a chance, reverend al. we're going to do some things you'll be surprised of. he would always reach out own try to be -- even though he was with the republican side at that point, he would always try to be the voice of reason. and then later, you're right, he did take a hit with the iraq war. he went with the information given him. he became the face of it. and he took some blemish there. let's not forget, he broke ranks when others wouldn't and supported barack obama for president both in 2008 and in 2012. and i think colin powell's endorsement of barack obama was a decisive move forward and a real plus for barack obama, so he's a man that stood on principle and would break with his party when he felt his party had gone awry, and he certainly joined you and other republicans in his analysis of donald trump and the demise of the republican party under his leadership, joe. >> it is such an important thing to remember on this day when we're remembering the life of former secretary of state colin powell. while there are still members of the republican establishment who have nothing to lose in their later years and robert kagen talked about this in his essay a few weeks ago. they still are quietly refusing to speak out against the horrific behavior of donald trump, and the slide toward ill liberal leadership there. colin powell in 2008 came out, had enough of the republican party's drift. he supported a democratic president in 2008, and he's been critical of the republican party's direction ever since. and mika, it's important to remember and let's underline this. we're talking about comen powell as america's first black secretary of state who is also america's first black national security adviser, the position your father held. he was america's first black chairman of the joint chiefs, and yes, he was america's first black secretary of state. and, again, the influence he had throughout his life was extraordinarily positive for the most part, except, obviously, for his u.n. testimony where he was given bad information. >> our love and prayers go to his wife this morning. and just to think about that career, joe, that you just laid out which we could talk about for hours. he has so many accomplishments. this is the son of ja macon immigrants who grew up in harlem and the south bronx, and went to new york city public schools. colin powell joined the rotc program. he ended up serving in vietnam, and his first political position was becoming a white house fellow, but he was ultimately a four-star general, and he was a professional soldier for 35 years. >> yes. >> along with becoming a politician and a diplomat, and so many different firsts. his rise is really incredible. again, the son of immigrants which is something that's important to talk about, especially these days. and what we've seen over the past four years. i know that secretary powell was extremely deserved by much that transpired during the trump presidency. >> he most certainly was, and let's bring in right now presidential historian, john meacham. john, colin powell, general powell, there's so much that can be said for him this morning. he was an historic figure. he was a trail blazer. he was an american soldier that represented his country proudly in uniform for decades. and i think most importantly, in 2021, he has shown courage that so many in his former party have not. in continuing to be a champion, whether in uniform or whether out of uniform, retired, being a champion for western democracy and western values. >> absolutely. general powell, i think, represents the best of what the country can be. his trajectory based on merit, based on skill, something he wrote about, something he talked about. he titled his memoir "american journey" and in many ways his capacities of -- to rise, to shape history represent the best of what we should be, and he saw those possibilities, the country that had made his life possible fading in these recent years. the other -- remember, a great moment -- he picked his shot. one thing about colin powell is he applied the powell doctrine not just in the first gulf war but in his own extendture of political capital, when you think about it. so he would pick moments to say something. he wasn't always out there. he wasn't ubiquitous so that when he said something, it really resonated. and there was that moment, i believe it was when he endorsed senator obama in 2008, and he said that great moment where john mccain says no, he's not a muslim of obama in the town hall. a moment for which senator mccain is rightly praised. general powell says what if he was? what if he were? what difference does it make? and it was -- i remember almost a physical feeling of hearing a man who served in uniform who as you say, it was casper wineberger has military aide during the cold war. he gave the last great briefing to january 20th, 1989. the world is quiet today, mr. president. not least because of what president reagan had done. he leaves washington. he goes down to atlanta. he was on his way to -- a few more steps in the military ranks, and actually, it was dick cheney, and -- who suggested and helped push for george h.w. bush to bring powell back to be the chairman and joint chiefs. that was the beginning of a kind of george marshall-like career because he was in many ways the architect of the first gulf war victory which is one of the great examples of how we should project force. and he did that. and as secretary of state of course. and just to put it in plain vernacular, he's a black guy who's doing it, and he used to say that privately. you know? it's like you know, i'm a black guy in america doing this. and that's a great thing about america. but he would also say it shouldn't be that notable. it shouldn't be that unusual. and i think that not least because of his remarkable contributions to the country, our uning of opportunity has, in fact, shifted forever. >> he certainly has had an extraordinary impact on the united states over the past 30, 40 years for so many different reasons, and john is right. general powell would choose his spots when he would speak out. one of those times came after january 6th. we had him on the show, and he was quite critical of what he saw on january 6th. wondering where the national guard was. wondering where police officers were. wondering where security was. but spoke out strongly against january 6th and what he saw, and the slow reaction to it. let's bring in richard haas, a man who worked in administrations with general powell. richard, your thoughts on the passing of a great american general. >> look, it's hard because it's so personal for me. he was also a close friend for more than four decades. we first worked together in 1979 at the pentagon in the carter administration. we obviously worked closely during the reagan, bush, and bush years. we had a lot of life together. everything you and john have said is true. what's so interesting, i think, important is he was one of the most int lekly honest people i ever made. he was open-minded. when he constantly did was processed information. he'd wake up in the morning, go on a western website, speak to certain friends, and he was constantly adjusting his take on things, his world view. he was in some ways the most practical man. to understand him, i always thought the key, and i saw it, he'd spend his spare time when he was younger putting together a volkswagen. he'd be out by the side of his house up at the base, and there was something about it that was practical, mechanical. it was physical. you could see the results. he wasn't someone who spent his time in theory. this is someone who was grounded in reality. and his views were totally, totally practical. he, again, centrist, practical, open-minded. not to mention decent and just a wonderful friend. >> he really was cut from it seems to me, from the mold of another great american general dwight d. eisenhower. a guy seen as being moderate. for general powell, like ike, he had just had a question. what works? what doesn't work? he would do his best to move this country in the direction and move the military in the direction that he thought made the most sense. let's bring in former nato supreme ally commander retired four-star admiral, chief international security diplomacy analyst for nbc news and msnbc admiral. colin powell, it's interesting talking about what works and doesn't work. an awful lot is -- of attention is paid in the second gulf war to his testimony before the united nations where the general was given bad information. he took responsibility for that. it's something that haunted him for quite some time. i always thought it was fascinating that when george w. bush was asked if he ever sought the advice of colin powell as to whether he should go into iraq in 2003, president bush said no, i didn't. they asked why not. he said because i knew he was so strongly against it. this is a general that had no problem with first iraq war, and being a commander that helped lead us to victory there. but in the second iraq war, obviously, a lot of misgivings. >> indeed, and i think, joe, something we haven't talked about yet is his record as a combat soldier. let's recall all the wonderful things he did as secretary of start and as national security adviser. before that he was a combat soldier and proud of that and served in vietnam honorably. purple heart in vietnam. what's called a soldier's medal for bravery. rescuing others. he led in combat, but he also was keenly aware of our failures in the war in vietnam. i think that colored everything going forward back to some of the points that john and richard had made. that kind of practicality. that sense that you know, we've got to get this right in a common sense kind of way. i worked for him when he was chairman of the joint chiefs of staff many years after vietnam. but he would often reach back to those vietnam era moments and he was also someone who was unafraid to swim in the sea of politics in a sensible way. and brought that soldier sensibility to every decision that he made. we lost an extraordinary american, and final thought, joe, again, not mentioned enough about him. he was the son of immigrants, and deeply proud of that. to make a son of new york city who could speak a little yiddish, there was a lot to like about colin powell. we're going to spend, i think, the next couple of days unpackaging that in a good way. it will be good for the country. >> you know, admiral, it's interesting you talk about vietnam, colin powell like so many others who served there, remained haunted by vietnam and always took the lessons of vietnam with him. i'm reminded of some tense words he had with a dear friend of ours, a dear friend of the -- madeleine albright's world view was shaped by what was not done in 1937. who was not done in 1938. going up against colin powell's world view that was shaped by the tragedy of what did happen from 1965 to 1973. he angrily talked about not using u.s. troops as toy soldiers, moving them around on the globe. again, because of what he remembered, what he was haunted by, what he saw firsthand in 1973. or '65 to '73. it was striking these two great leaders shaped by very different experiences bringing that to a critical debate for this country. >> indeed. and you know, i count myself as someone who has been mentored by both colin powell, he was the first person i went to see when i was selected to become the supreme ally commander of nato. he gave me some sterling historic advice that john meacham will appreciate. he said to me, get over there, get into it, do everything you can, but just remember, you're not going to be shar la main. in other words, recognize that you've got to work with others. madeleine albright when i was nato commander mentored me as well. and joe, you nail it. people are so often shaped by their life's experiences early on. i think we see that with colin powell. i want to add one other thought. he always exuded to me optimism. and if you look at his -- >> yeah. >> if you look at his so-called 13 rules of leadership. they're quite good. i had them under glass on my desk when i was supreme allied commander. the final one is perpetual optimism is a force multiplier. that was colin powell. despite what happened in vietnam and what he saw there, he remained, if you will, cautiously optimistic. that was a huge part of colin powell as well. >> well, we are now remembering the life of retired four-star general politician diplomat, former secretary of state, colin powell who died at the age of 84. this news coming from his family, thanking the doctors at walter reed. also pointing out that he died of covid-related complications, and his family making very clear in a short statement that general powell was vaccinated which is something we'll be talking about in the days to come with doctors and about breakthrough cases and also how people could still be deeply affected by this virus and even from complications from it. but right now we are remembering a life and legacy of this decorated american, and richard haas, you worked with him. you knew him for so many years. i'm wondering if any personal memories come to mind of your time with former general colin powell. >> well, dozens of them. let me say one other word i would use to describe colin powell. he was cautious. it goes back to the vietnam period. he saw the misuse of the american military. he saw what involvement in a war that was ill-advised could do to the american military. he was the most cautious person in the room. i learned something from that. it was typical people in uniform who had the experience of combat saw it in ways that often civilians did not. whether it was a gulf war and he only came on board when president bush '41 agreed to do it massively or the iraq war which he was skeptical from the get-go, he was a cautious general. i would argue you want your generals to be cautious. it's an important voice to hear in the situation room. i remember the first time i met him, again, it was '79. i was watching. i think he was the junior military assistant. i hope i have that right, to the secretary of defense. i just stood there for a few minutes. he was calling people. i said what are you doing? he said oh, i'm just checking the trap lines. i said what do you mean? it wasn't an expression i'd heard. he said i'm calling around, all the people i know to see what's going on. i do this every morning. it was his way of keeping in touch of keeping tabs and trading information. that way you wouldn't be surprised. you had a network of friends. but he had a network of people uniformed and civilian around the pentagon and the government. that was the way he worked. he constantly worked the system. for him government was people. it wasn't abstractions. it was people. and what he constantly did was work them. can we talk about one other thing? you alluded to it. the u.n. speech. when his obituary is written out, there's going to be criticism of what colin powell said at the u.n. about weapons of mass destruction. i was involved with him in that. i was in charge of the policy planning staff at the time. we was working closely with george tenet and the intelligence community. the first draft that came over that speech from the vice president's office was just loaded with all sorts of misinformation. all sorts of questionable intelligence. what powell did was he scrubbed it and scrubbed it and scrubbed it. all of us did that together. when he finally went with the speech to the united nations, we all actually thought we'd done a decent day or several day's work, and we moved probably 95% of the material that ought not have been in there. obviously as we know, there were still some things that were in there that ought not to have been. but his role was to make sure that was in there as best we could deserved to be said by the secretary of state and the united states' government. it drive me crazy when i hear a word like lie or misremit. no, we got it wrong in one or two cases. he got it wrong, but it wasn't for lack of trying. it wasn't for lack of intellectual rigor or honesty. i think we need to put that in perspective. sometimes in government the best things are what you do is what you prevent. he prevented an enormous amount of misinformation from being protected to the world. one or two things got through, but it wasn't for a lack of intellectual honesty. >> i'm scrolling through. i'm curious as we're looking at pictures of colin powell who passed away from covid-related complications at the age of 84. i am struck that while twitter is often a sewer, i am struck and heartened, i will say heartened by both democrats and republicans, both of whom certainly would have reason to disagree with general powell at times throughout his public career, saying wonderful things about him. matt lewis talking about ronald reagan, hoping that colin powell could be the future of the democratic party. robert george saying he was seen as a threat, and he was. i remember he was seen as a threat to movement conservatives. he was attacked by movement conservatives at the time, but it was his wife, alma, who vetoed his run for president in '96. stacey abrams writing god speed to secretary colin powell who led with integrity, admitted fallibility, and defended democracy. deepest condolences to his loved ones and friends. and then you have nick burns who is going to be most likely the next ambassador to china saying general colin powell was one of the greatest public servants. an inspirational leader for both the state department and military. he was admired by all whom worked for him. a true patriot. mika, i understand we have a statement from president bush. >> we are deeply saddened by the death of colin powell. he was a great public servant starting with his time as a soldier during vietnam. many presidents relied on general powell's counsel and expertise. he was national security adviser under president reagan, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff under my father and president clinton, and secretary of state during my administration. he was such a favorite of presidents that he earned the presidential medal of freedom twice. he was highly respected at home and abroad, and most important, collin was a family man and a friend. laura and i send alma and their children our sincere condolences as they remember the life of a great man. >> a great man. former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense, nbc news national security analyst jeremy bash is with us. jeremy, praise for this great general. >> from the right and the left. >> this great american coming from both sides of the political spectrum. and it certainly heartens me to see people from the left and the right giving a great man his due this morning. >> well, joe, colin powell was the best of america, and he was the best of the united states army. he was born in 1937 to ja macon immigrants in harlem. he attended city college on an rotc program and served 35 years in the united states army. he served twice in vietnam. he was deputy national security adviser and after a time became the national security adviser, and then -- and he did so in uniform. that's tricky to do sometimes. only a few of the national security advisers have served as active duty military officers. he did that with distinction and then became the chairman of the joint chair of staff during the gulf war in 1990 and 1991, leading to probably america's greatest military victory over the last generation. and then certainly in his other roles, as secretary of state, he did express concern and caution about u.s. activities overseas. in addition to the powell doctrine which basically says if you're going to get in, you'd better have a way to get out. you'd better have an exit strategy, and i know in every conversation i've been in in the pentagon, at the cia, in the halls of congress whenever you talk about military deployments, that powell doctrine is not far from the lips of any decision maker or policy maker. and finally, joe and mika, i would say the other thing i think about when i think about colin powell, i think about the pottery barn rule. you break it, you buy it. he said that about the iraq war. and the pottery barn rule is something i think that should animate and motivate american foreign policy decision making, because if we're going to use our military power and we have to use our military power oftentimes to defend our interest and to defend our values, we have to understand the consequences of our military power, and if we do engage in anything overseas, around the world, that breaks anything, we're going to have to own the consequences of that decision, and so i think we have a lot to thank and be grateful for for the life and legacy of colin powell. >> so i want to ask the admiral and richard haas. admiral, i'll start with you first, about the so-called pottery barn rule. if you break it, you fix it, and also the powell doctrine, what was his add on, that developed in the 19 0s. that's a reaction to the failures of vietnam. it seems like such sage advice, such krit kalg advice for our policy makers to follow. and yet, we have failed time and again to heed his warnings, to heed his advice, to follow the lessons that he learned from the fallout of vietnam. >> yeah. joe, this -- again, go back to the pragmatism of general powell. there's so much there. also cautiously optimistic. but he'd seen things go wrong in an enormous way in vietnam. i think it did shadow his judgments going forward, but in positive ways. and, again, i just keep coming back to these 13 rules of leadership of colin powell that were so much for me a north star when i was a senior officer in the military, and i think is true for a generation of us. and it's a balance of having a vision, but knowing you can succeed. don't take counsel of your fears. perpetual optimism is a forced multiplier. but certainly he is the wisest one in the room on so many occasions. and it's because as general sherman said of civil war fame, no one hates war like a soldier. i think colin powell hated war. hated its impact on people. he saw it firsthand. he did everything he could to avoid the kind of situations that would lead us into another conflict. so much to admire about him. i hope we spend the next few days as a nation celebrating this american life. >> and richard haas, john heilemann and the recount just put a quote. mark hurdling said all the spouses would tell you they trusted general powell. we trusted him as soldiers, but the families trusted him just as much. that really is the seal of approval to show that even the families of those sent into combat with this man trusted him, trusted him to do the right thing, trusted him to protect this country. and trusted him to never take unnecessary risks with their family members. >> again for colin powell, war wasn't an abstraction. it involved soldiers who are people and had families. for him it was very real. it reinforced his sense of joe, you mentioned a second ago the powell doctrine and the pottery barn rule. what's interesting to me is what they have in common. it's the way they connect. the powell doctrine says if you're going to use force, use it for things military force is meant to do, destroy things. big, not small, but be careful for using it for symbolic reasons. to threaten. what happens next, you own it. in both of the cases, powell was thinking about what happens after and the day after and the day after that. it's very easy to introduce military force to start it, to use it, to go into a war. much more difficult to prosecute it, much more difficult to end it on terms that justify it and leave you better off. and that was the way he thought. he was a systematic thinker. he wasn't a big policy intellectual. he was a one of the smartest people i knew, and one of the most intellectually careful people i know, disciplined. for him, uses of military force were to be thought through every step of the way until it would end. and that's why the rules of his are important. what they are, they require discipline when it comes to the decision making and execution, and so often we have people who are anything but. they want to do it, but they don't want to think about the consequences. >> we're following the breaking news at this hour, the death of retired four-star general, former sick tear of state, decorated american, colin powell of complications tu to covid. his family released a statement this morning that general powell died at walter reed. and joe, i'm looking at all the reaction coming in as you are. i'm also looking at a graduation speech that he delivered in 1994 to the graduating class at howard university that campus at the time was reeling from racial turmoil, and here are his parting words to the students. above all, never lose faith in america. it faults are yours to fix, not to curse. america in a family. there may be differences and disputes within the family, but we must not allow the family to be broken into warring factions. from the diversity of our people, let us draw strength and not seek weakness. believe in america with all your heart and soul, with all of your mind, and remember that it remains the last best hope of earth. you are its inher or thes, and today the future is placed in your hand. >> that talk of unity, that call for unity, that moderating voice time and time again, the call for rationality, is something that we always got from general powell. and something that we badly need as a country today. even this morning as i scan twitter, there are some idiots that are using his death to talk about how vaccines don't work. the fact that is that 94%, 95% of seniors who use vaccines are saved, spared from serious consequences or death. but from the very beginning, colin powell would tell you, pfizer, moderna, j&j, never said they were 100% effective. and so there are times, and doctors have said this all along, there are some seniors or people with immune diseases that the vaccines will help. but there will be some breakthrough cases, and there will be some tragedy from that. robert draper wrote this morning, colin powell was a heroic american figure tinged with tragedy, going to his february 2003 u.n. speech on iraq's nonexistent weapons of mass destruction, but this is critical to remember this morning. we've already talked about how he crossed his own party leaders when he thought the republican party had gone off track and was very critical of donald trump. it's important to remember, even in 2003, he was as robert draper reminds us, the only senior adviser to president bush to warn him about the consequences of going into iraq and admiral, again, as we learned after the iraq war, george w. bush did not ask him directly whether he supported the invasion or not. he said powell had already let him know he opposed it. >> he did. and again, what we've all been saying here is so consistent in the best of advisers which is those who will at the same go speak truth to power. even if you're colin powell, a former chairman of the joint chiefs, a former national security adviser, a former four-star general, to turn to a president of the united states and recommend a course of action that you know he doesn't want to take requires the kind of character, the kind of moral courage that we admire about this truly extraordinary leader. and again, i think if you look at the course of his career, he has been one who has given that advice. think about the beautiful speech that you just heard read. his commencement address to howard university. he believed in all that. so often people mouth these platitudes, but boy, he lived that throughout his life. he was unafraid to give his bes that throughout his life. he was unafraid to give his best opinion. he gave the best of himself to all of us day after day. as richard said, i think this is hard for many of us who knew him well. he will be deeply missed. >> yes, he will. chair of the dnc, jaime harrison tweeted, this is hitting me hard. colin powell was a statesman who put his country and family above all else. as a young black man, he inspired me and showed that there were no limits to what we can be or achieve. sending my prayers to his family. rest in peace, secretary. and alexander vindman, the now retired united states army lieutenant colonel tweeted colin powell was the epitome of a soldier statesman. agree with him or not, he was a public statesman committing to public interest and doing his best to advance u.s. interests. he left an indelible mark on the u.s. military and this nation. may his memory be a blessing. >> and, john meacham, i'm heartened this morning. colin powell was perhaps a man from a different area in h history of politics. i'm heartened this morning that i'm hearing and reading so many kind words about this great man from people on the right who were obviously disappointed with him when he endorsed barack obama in 2008 and became very critical of the direction of the republican party. i would say showing great courage in doing so, especially over the past four or five, six years, but also from people on the left who obviously have had concerns through the years about that 2003 speech, but many noting that he was the only member of the bush administration to speak out against that war and be critical of the war. and here's a statement from the president of the naacp, derrick johnson. general colin powell was a four-star general, an naacp medal recipient. he was a good man who inspired many. so rare, jon meacham, these days to find any figure that is as unifying as colin powell is this morning. >> you know, he's in the tradition of george washington. he represented a constitutional order. he understood that the country was imperfect, but as mika was just quoting him saying, he also understood as frederick douglass once said, there's no soil so conducive to conform as american soil. he believed his story was a representation of the capacity of the country to progress from imperfection, a little bit closer to what we all want. and he did so at the highest levels as richard has been saying and has served with him, in the most complicated of jobs, where you actually had -- this was not -- here's the -- i think this is a modestly important point to make this morning. he was not a twitter warrior. he was not a press conference guy. this was a man who had the lives of other people in his hands. he executed that responsibility with grace and dignity and care for decades. so for him, politics was not laser tag. it was not a fund-raising mechanism. it was not theater. it was, in fact, the workings of a republic attempting to stand as a nation state that was actually a beacon not only to the world but a place that realized its own ideals at home. so if you want to study what we want in the country -- it's not that colin powell was perfect. he was as heck as close to so many people in our conversation and mind share. so one last service general powell may have performed here is on this monday morning with so much hanging in the balance legislatively, politically, democratically, he's a reminder of what we should be fighting for. >> mika? >> as we look at his accomplishments across the world in diplomacy and as a soldier, i think, one thing we haven't touched on is his work with america's promise alliance, and this is an organization in which he was the founding chairperson along with his wife, and it's focused on children, and it's focused on the five things that kids need to have in life, and he knew this personally as the son of jamaican immigrants and growing up and navigating the system and becoming an adult. but he marks those five things as having caring adults in their lives, safe places to grow and learn, healthy starts in life, marketable skills, and opportunities to serve their community, and within america's alliance, he did a lot of that kind of work, trying to give back and make a better life for the generations ahead. >> yeah. so important. and our good friend paul rieckhoff has wren this about colin powell. powell emboied what was possible in america. his book and life shaped so much of my military experience, and let's bring in our dear friend david ignatius, "washington post" columnist. david, i would guess paul rieckhoff speaks for so many people that are served the united states military right now who have had their thinking about their service to their country shaped by this great man. >> joe, i think it's fair to say that colin powell really rebuilt the u.s. military after vietnam. our military was shaken badly by that war. it was troubled by problems in the ranks. there were racial tensions in the military after vietnam. most of all, this was a military that has lost confidence in itself. and powell was instrumental in rebuilding it. he became known for the powell doctrine which in shorthand, you want to fight winnable clear-sighted wars, and he had that chance in the first gulf war when he was chairman of the joint chiefs. but in a much more powerful way, he was a symbol of the military that regained confidence in itself and unity. in all my dealings with colin powells through the years and so many different contexts, what always came through to me was his basic scientist position. he was one of those people who was blessed with clarity about who he was and what he needed to do. and then secondly his good judgment. he was always somebody who would reflect. he would make a wisecrack often. first thing he would do is make a joke. then you think about the question that was posed. for the military, for the bush family, those qualities were crucial through his career. i think the hardest thing to think about with colin powell is the iraq war ending. as you said, yes, he had his doubts about the war, but he was drawn in to the process that took america into that terrible war. his moments at the u.n., i think, were painful to him for the rest of his life. but this -- among other things we should see in him is he put the military back together after it was broken. >> we had a guest earlier who said colin powell was a north star. godspeed and open water. a general for the ages. your final thoughts. >> the public service is a noble thing. colin powell reminds me, joe, when public service was filled with people of character. whether you disagree with him or not, this is someone who was decent in his personal life and in his professional life. it's just a reminder in some ways of what was and needs to be again in this country of ours. >> jon meacham, final thoughts to you. >> he was a man who stood at the crossroads of freedom and the projection of force. he helped end a war against the soviet union, a cold war. he taught us in 1990-'91 how to project force in a post-cold war era, and he was much of a counter lesson in the first century. he was a life in full and a man who stood on the ramparts for liberalcy and democracy. >> colin powell has died at the age of 84 due to covid-related complications. his family put out a statement this morning, a very short statement, but they did put in the fact he was vaccinated. he was a decorated american, a family man, and a good friend, and our hearts go out to his wife alma, his children michael, linda, and ann, and everybody in the powell family. that does it for us this

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