atlanta braves are headed to the nlcs. they're a team that won their division. it wasn't a great division, quite frankly, so they sort of flew under the radar, as you said. the brewers were getting a lot of attention coming into the playoffs as a sleeper team. watch for the braves in the playoffs. they'll play either the giants or the dodgers because the dodgers did win in los angeles last night, appropriately forcing a decisive game between the two teams with the best records in baseball that will be played tonight in san francisco. >> wow, what a series that is. of course, i obviously didn't stay up to see it was not a walk-off. i thought it was. >> thank god. >> eighth inning home run. mike barnicle, we talked about yesterday the strategic decision that we had to make as a country, of calling joseph stalin our ally in the battle against adolph hitler and nazi germany. willie geist having to make a similar choice in supporting the boston red sox going into the alcs. take deep breaths, willie. >> escaping my body through my nose, joe. >> what are you going to do? >> i'd like -- i'd rather vote present if i could, but that's a cop-out in politics and baseball. i said this to you last night, something i've never said, go sox. >> oh, my lord. >> sounds like it hurts. >> that is hard to believe. speaking of the astros, mike, they finished off the white sox yesterday. they remain, cheating or no cheating, they remain a mighty team. >> they're a great team, a great club. they will forever be tainted by the cheating a couple years ago. they were accused of stealing signs during the series they just won. but, yeah, they are a formidable opponent. alex cora and the young boston red sox, he's got them focused, incrediby focused, and they could upset the astros. game one going to be really critical friday night. >> yeah. the giants have won 107 this year. they're being taken to game five. willie, we wouldn't expect anything less of a dodgers-giants series. what do you think there? do giants pull it out, or are the dodgers going to once again go to the nlcs? >> boy, these teams are just almost literally evenly matched. they were separated by just one game. giants won 107 games. dodgers won 106 games. they combine, for now, including the playoffs, 217 victories this season. there's mookie betts. i know that hurts, hitting a home run for the dodgers last night. walker bucher from vanderbilt university pitching last night for the dodgers. i guess if you had to toss a coin, you'd say home field advantage. but it's the playoffs. it's game five. anything could happen. how is that for a lame prediction? >> i will say, it is also experience in these settings. there is no doubt that the boston red sox, mike barnicle, benefitted by the fact that kiée hernandez has played more playoff games for the dodgers over the past several years than most of us have gone into the office over the past year. i mean, they had like 25, 26, 27, 27 playoff appearances? you can see it. teams that have that experience like the dodgers in october, things just go better for them usually. >> yeah. two big additions to the red sox. joe, you're absolutely correct, the playoff experience they acquired when they acquired kiée hernandez. and also picking up kyle schwarber at the trading deadline. he is instantly maybe the most popular player on the red sox. he can't field. he made a terrible error the other night. it was okay, not fatal. he tipped his cap the next time he fielded a ground ball properly, and the crowd went crazy. he has that playoff experience. it counts for something. i will say this, and you all know this, even mika knows this, san francisco, the san francisco giants have been one of the most vastly underrated baseball teams in major league baseball throughout the year. here they are. they are on the verge of winning the series with the dodgers. as willie pointed out, the win-loss records were incredibly close, and the dodgers payroll is probably one-third higher han the san francisco giants. yet here they are. san francisco. watch out for them. >> there you go. mike barnicle, just for the record, i did not know that. but thank you very much. >> oh, meez. >> good to have mike barnicle and jonathan lemire. also with us, princeton university's eddie claude, jr., is with us, as well. this morning, two new developments from the white house in the fight against covid. overnight, the biden administration announced it'll allow fully vaccinated foreign travelers to enter the united states by land starting next month. for the first time since march of 2020, visitors from canada or mexico will be able to come into the u.s. for non-essential purposes like tourism. meanwhile, the white house is telling governors across the country to start preparing to vaccinate children as young as 5 by early november. this is in anticipation of the fda clearing pfizer's covid vaccine for children ages 5 to 11 in the coming weeks. fda approval. the biden administration has purchased 65 million pediatric doses of the pfizer vaccine. enough to vaccinate the estimated 28 million children who would be eligible for a shot. that is such big news, joe. >> it really is. because, eddie, when there are people that read too much facebook, eddie -- here you go. eddie, when there are too many people who read too much facebook -- good morning, t.j. -- what happens is they start asking questions. i've had a lot of people call me and say, you know, kids can't really get covid, can they? if they can, why do they need a vaccination? it doesn't make any sense. this is all some one world conspiracy or bill gates conspiracy or sorros conspiracy. i said, there's a reason why you and i and our children and everybody got polio vaccines when there wasn't much of a chance we were going to get polio. or the four or other five vaccines they give us. because you want to have a universal vaccine to make sure that we get rid of whatever disease we're trying to get rid of, whatever virus we're trying to get rid of. i've got a family member, a close family member, who is vaccinated, doing well, but his child came back from school and covid spread through his child's school. now the entire family has it. they're going to be fine. they're going to be fine because they all have the vaccines, and they're in pretty good shape. still, this shows we have to try to make this universal. these stupid arguments as you see on facebook or other corners of the internet just ignores 50 years of vaccine history. >> you know, you're absolutely right, joe. for some reason, we know that reason, the kind of fringe talk about vaccines. the anti-vaxxers have become mainstream. whatever the new normal will be, it'll involve protecting our children. it will involve vaccinating our children against covid. so this is an important development. hopefully we can begin to push back against all the misinformation that's happening on facebook and across the country and kind of put back on the margins this anti-vaccine kind of nonsense that has, in some ways, gotten in the way of our effort to respond to covid, particularly with regards to our children. >> we'll see just how many parents are willing to give their kids the vaccine if they themselves are not willing to take it. that'll be an open question. yesterday, we told you about the move by texas governor abbott to block any move of requiring employees to get the vaccine. miguel almaguer has the latest. >> reporter: even as some hospitals in hard-hit texas face another surge of covid cases, the governor here is issuing an executive order prohibiting any entity, including private businesses, from imposing vaccine requirements. fighting what he calls federal overreach, governor greg abbott says covid vaccines are safe, effective, and our best defense against the virus, which had remained voluntary and never forced. >> we continously are releasing mandates on everything public health stands for. >> reporter: with many outrag outraged on ban of vaccines, vaccines like polio and measles are required. american airlines saying we believe the federal vaccine mandate supersedes any conflicting state laws. >> there have been so many things that have been perplexing that go against medical advice, that go against what some of the greatest scientific minds in the world have been advising us to do since the very beginning of the pandemic. >> reporter: as our nation squabbles over mandates, some 67 million who are eligible remain unvaccinated. the brooklyn nets say they have no choice but to play without nba superstar kyrie irving, who has not complied with new york city's mandate to play at the barclays center. >> i think it's very disappointing that a high-profile athlete declines vaccination. we all really should get vaccinated, not only for ourselves but on behalf of everybody around us. >> reporter: with many americans still refusing to get their first dose, this week, the fda will also take on boosters for those vaccinated with moderna and johnson & johnson. our nation deeply divided over the choice to vaccinate and the right to implement mandates. >> miguel reported there on southwest and american airlines, both based in texas, saying they will not follow the order by governor abbott, barring covid-19 vaccine mandates by private businesses. "wall street journal" reports this, quote, the greatest houston partnership which represents some 900 companies, including exxonmobil and jpmorgan chase, said mr. abbott's order would make it more difficult for texas businesses to operate safely. the organization has been generally supportive of the president's efforts to require vaccines for large employers. joe, this is on a large scale what we saw from some of those school districts in florida in the face of governor desantis' ban. they said, we're going to do what's best for our kids and schools, and we're going to put masks on our kids. bring it. now you have major corporations like these airlines, like exxonmobil, saying, we are going to do what is best for our private companies. >> it's so interesting that some of these republican governors that have run their entire life claiming to be pro-business have declared war on business. i always talk about the importance of the small business owner, the family restaurant, the young entrepreneurs that have start-ups that are trying to build their businesses. you have greg abbott. you have ron desantis. you have other republican governors that are actually stepping in and stomping on them, taking away their freedom as a private enterprise, as a free enterprise business to do what they think is best for their companies. to keep their doors open. to keep their restaurants open. they're taking away that choice. it's like a socialist government not letting a private business, a family business do what they think is best. i don't understand it. mike barnicle, now you have the biggest corporations saying the same thing. the biggest corporations that understand they need their people working, they need their people back at work doing their jobs, getting their company going, getting the supply chain running again. and who is stopping them? republican governors. why? not because of science. >> no. >> not because of any medical advice. it is all just playing to the lowest common denominator and the dumbest conspiracy theories on the internet and on facebook. they are at war against private enterprise. not letting them do what they need to do to move beyond covid. it's the craziest thing i've ever seen in terms of republicans declaring war against business. >> joe, this is a continuing tragedy in this country because what the governor of texas has said, what other republicans have said has nothing to do with public health or public policy. it's all about politics. yesterday, congressman jim jordan of ohio, the guy with no coat, guy who never wears a coat, he urged an end to -- he urged ohio to end all mandates of all vaccines. not just the covid vaccines, all vaccines. >> oh, my god. what an idiot. >> rubella, polio, measles, all vaccines. >> moron. >> that's where this is going. it is not just congress, joe. you know this. it's various republican-led states with republican governors and republican legislatures. and this is, i think -- i might be wrong. i'm often wrong -- this could be the epic issue of our age. can we hold on to our democracy in the light of all of these public people? elected governors, elected members of congress, elected members of the united states senate. you reported on this the other day, we just had the number two republican in the house of representatives, steve scalise of louisiana, still refusing to admit that joe biden is the legitimately elected president of the united states. this is all happening right in front of our eyes. from my point of view, from my grandchildrens' point of view, who i think about all day long, this is the issue of our time. because they're not going to have the country that we have if we shut our eyes to this. build back better is really important. this is more important. >> mike, i totally agree with you. you see in these states where these governors are just holding on to whatever it takes to have people believe conspiracy theories and push away vaccine mandates and keep people passing the virus along to each other. there are these heros on the state and the local level who are standing up to these governors. here's what's happening on that level. florida's school board passed a resolution yesterday that promises to provide a safe environment for everyone at its meetings. the decision comes after months of heated debate between members of the public and school board officials, mainly over the issue of masks in schools. one school board member, jennifer jenkins, detailed the threats and intimidation she, her family, and even her neighbors have received this year. >> i am not opposed to people practicing their first amendment rights, even when it is outside of my home on a public property. i'm not. i'm not. i think it is a silly method. i think it is ineffective. it doesn't move or motivate me, but i'm not opposed to it. what i reject is this effort to create fear and division in the community that leads to credible threats of violence against me and my family. and there's a lot of things that i haven't shared with all of you up here. i've tried not to talk about this stuff publicly. and when you guys brought this up today in the workshop, i felt -- i felt offguard and frustrated because then it became something on our agenda that i couldn't express to you why i was against it. now it has to be in the sunshine. i don't reject people coming here and speaking their voice. they do it all the time. we don't stop them from doing that. i don't reject them standing outside my home. i reject them following me around in a car, following my car around. i reject them saying they're coming for me, that i need to beg for mercy. i reject that when they are using their first amendment rights on public property, they're also going behind my home and brandishing their weapons to my neighbors. that they're making false dcf claims about me to my daughter, that there has to be an agent to go underneath her clothing and check for burn marks. that's what i am against, which is a credible threat and calculated. >> the dcf she is referring to is the florida department of children and families. willie, what mike was talking about in terms of where we are as a country and what is more important than anything, i think that woman really eloquently described how it's playing out on a deeply personal level between americans. >> it's hard to believe this is happening in our country, but it is happening in school boards across the country. jennifer jenkins on the school board there in bervard county, she is a teacher, a speech pathologist, an educator who works with kids with developmental disabilities. husband is a teacher. she ran for the school board to help her community. this is the thanks she's getting for some policies being put in place. as i said, eddie glaude, this is not unique. you can read a story in new jersey about a father coming in and berating the staff, including an elementary school nurse, because his son was taken out of school because he had a close contact with someone who had covid. they simply didn't want covid to spread through the school. there's something in the water right now, eddie, in this country. there's something that has emboldened people to be aggressive to teachers, to elementary school nurses, to nurses shopping in grocery stores, to doctors, to people that they deem as out to get them because of what they've read on facebook or heard on a radio show somewhere. >> you know, willie, we often try to say that these are fringe elements. in some ways they are, but they've been mainstreamed. and, you know, in many ways, we're at a cold civil war. it turned hot on january 6th. it is turning hot in these local spaces. think about it, they reported her to the dcf. said her child had burn marks, right? they're threatening, brannis brandishing guns. sometimes we think of the folks as crazy outliers, but this is happening in everyday life. we have to understand the stakes. we have to understand the intensity and scale of the crisis we face. there are americans who are willing to threaten folks who are risking their lives every day to keep our children safe, who are risking their lives every day to make sure this republic remakes a republic. we have to respond to this crisis in kind. we have to respond to these folks not by saying they're just simply marginal voices but to respond to them as the threats they represent to our democracy, it seems to me. still ahead on "morning joe," lawmakers vote to lift the debt ceiling, but a bigger fight is looming when it comes to shrinking democrats' $3.5 trillion spending bill. plus, the house committee investigating the january 6th insurrection is warning of criminal contempt charges for anyone who ignores its subpoenas. also ahead, in a matter of hours, hollywood actor william shatner, famous for playing captain kirk on "star trek," is expected to launch into space. >> look at that guy. >> i love him. >> that guy, 90 years young, baby. >> come on! >> 90 years young. >> we'll go live to the launch site. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. derriere discomfort. we try to soothe it with this. cool it with this. and relieve it with this. but new preparation h soothing relief spray is the 21st century way to do all three. even touch free. preparation h. get comfortable with it. ♪ i like it, i love it, i want some more of it♪ ♪i try so hard, i can't rise above it♪ ♪don't know what it is 'bout that little gal's lovin'♪ ♪but i like it, i love it♪ applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. ♪♪ 26 past the hour. it is all systems go for the blue origin launch that will take actor william shatner to space. the mission will carry the actor, two paying customers, and one staff member from blue origin to the edge of space. >> wait, they have one staff member on a rocket? everybody else is a tourist? >> yeah. >> captain kirk. >> they're going to be good. >> i'm not going up into space unless it is captain kirk, two other tourists, and one staff member. >> well -- >> what happens if the staff member has a heart attack? >> captain kirk is in charge. no worries. the new shepard rocket was scheduled to launch on tuesday, but high winds delayed it. the winds have subsided, and the launch is scheduled for 10:00 a.m. eastern today from van horn, texas. >> van horn. >> tom costello will join us live in the 8:00 a.m. hour from the launch site. >> first of all, i have to say, willie geist, for anybody traveling, traveling east to west, going to california on i-10, van horn has a hell of a truck stop. my college friends and i would go stop at the van horn truck stop. >> what is wrong with that? >> it's very nice. another thing, shatner, i saw him on this commercial about a month ago. >> priceline? >> mike tyson. no, no, that's 1976. with mike tyson. the guy is moving around, pretending he's -- he has the tyson tattoo on. he looked, acted, walked, talked like the guy was in his 50s. i said, wait a second, how old is this guy? 90 years old. i don't know -- >> amazing. >> -- what that dude is taking. i don't know if it's, like, yoga. i remember interviewing ringo, and i said, okay -- >> i'll have what he is seeing. >> whatever they're doing. shatner is 90, man. he's 90, and he is kicking it. >> it's incredible. i had the same thought yesterday. i was listening to this news report when they delayed the launch. they said william shatner is 90 years old, and i thought it was a copy editing mistake. maybe 80. 90 years old. he is incredibly sharp. he is going into space for god's sakes. it is incredible. look at him. he looks incredible. >> yeah. >> i do share your position, joe, about having the one employee. it's like, i won't name them, but there are some small airlines that fly to, let's say, some small islands in the northeast. it's just the one guy up there, the single prop. >> yeah. >> you go, i guess i'm shatner in this scenario. if that goes down, i have to become william shatner and land this thing. >> okay. >> you have to be captain kirk. it's pretty crazy. this guy is, mike barnicle, he is in great shape. i love that they asked him when he turned 90, what have you learned in life? he goes, ah, what i've learned is nothing matters. just relax. you'll be okay. >> he is in great shape and looks tremendous. look at him, 90 years of age. i can't get out of my mind the day he was on with us a couple of years ago here in new york. he's flying the rocket ship today and looks tremendous. the day he was on set, he couldn't make it up onto the stool without help. i don't know what he has been doing, but he looks tremendous. >> he's had a resurgence. >> i guess. good luck. >> yes. >> i don't know he had a resurgence. i just think, if i remember correctly, he had a pretty rough night the night before. >> maybe. >> he had been out a little too late. we've seen more than one person have trouble getting up on that stool. >> our show is early. >> that early in the morning. >> god bless him. big health news to talk about this morning. a u.s. task force is recommending that doctors not prescribe low-dose aspirin to prevent a first heart attack or stroke. >> now they tell me. too late. >> how many years have we been doing this? the new proposal comes after evidence suggests there is a high risk of serious side effects that outweigh benefits. bayer made a lot of money on this, by the way. >> so is low fat stuff. >> the updated guidance says that adults in their 40s and 50s should only take aspirin if their doctors determine they are at a higher risk of heart disease. taking a daily, low dose aspirin has long been recommended for heart health, and bayer has been the one that -- this is -- >> yeah. you know, mike, it seems, like everything -- >> curious. >> -- we grew up knowing about diet, health, taking this aspirin, which i guess isn't good for your stomach and digestive track if you do it every day, so much of it has been wrong. for instance, remember the food pyramid and everything that came out with it in the early '60s? do your best to go low fat, so people would buy all these synthetic products that had very little fat but would have tons of other things that would, you know -- so people were loading up on carbs for 30 years and staying away from fat and protein. we learned 5, 10 years ago, it's the exact opposite. those carbs, they do come at a tremendous cost. we have a massive obesity crisis now. >> you know, joe, i have long had a practice of lying to my physician when you go for your physical. he says, you been taking your daily aspirin? yeah, religiously. >> that's wrong. >> chicken and fish. that's it. i park my car beneath the golden arches and ignore all of that because things change like that. >> oh, my gosh, okay. also, the retail pharmacy giant walgreens is set to close five stores in san francisco due to rampant shoplifting. location in the city struggled with shoplifting for years. ten locations have been closed in the city since 2019. last october, the "san francisco chronicle" reported one location closed down due to a loss of up to $1,000 in stolen merchandise a day. i did notice, i think it was cvs, recently, a couple that i went to in d.c. and other major cities, everything is locked now. like you can't even get toothpaste without asking it to be unlocked. >> it's insane. >> also makes me feel bad that things are so bad for people that this is happening. incredibly sad. >> it is not incredibly sad. they're criminals. >> it is. >> no, no, no. this has been happening for some time. if you look, eddie glaude, at the video, people bring garbage bags into retail stores in san francisco and they load them up. they walk out, and people just stare at them. security guards just stare at them. and i know, i feel really badly. >> i do. >> rachel, our friend, she went to lululemon store in san francisco. i feel really bad for the people that came in and pulled out guns and swiped about $3,000, $4,000 worth of lululemon goods and put them inside their bags. it's just -- especially you've been hearing about it in san francisco. i've seen it in san francisco. friends have seen it in san francisco. up and down on the west coast, you have walgreens, you have cvs, you have walmart, you have other stores that are having to shut down at 5:00 because people are just going in and stealing stuff and walking out the front door. never seen anything like it before. >> right, joe. remember what you say all the time, two things can be true at once. you have this criminal element, who is organized, doing exactly what you are condemning, what i am condemning. and then we have the economic effects of covid. folk are trying to make end's meet, and they're doing things -- some people are desperate. two things can be true at once. so we want to condemn this organized effort that is leading to walgreens shutting down five stores in the san francisco area. and the very things you've described. but we also want to be open and charitable and mindful that folk are out here hurting, even as 90-year-old men are flying into space. >> on the rocket ships with billionaires. >> one staff member. >> exactly. one staff member. i want to fly on a plane with one pilot? who is going into space with one rocket man? not me. you know, willie, the thing is, you have seen over the last 20 years, especially in san francisco, you've seen the decline of a great city. we had bill de blasio this past week asking, you know, where has he been making mistakes? he said one of the mistakes he made had to do with homelessness, that he didn't address it more quickly and more comprehensively. so homelessness has become a real problem. he said, you know, leaders on the west coast, mayors who think letting homeless people sleep out on the streets, sleep over grates on cold nights, in terrible, unsanitary, dangerous positions, if they think that's some liberal dream state, they're out of their mind. but san francisco has been veering out of control for years. i remember former mayor, i think it was willie brown who suggested that homeless people get credit card machines so when they're begging for money, tourists can just swipe their credit card and they can get money. now, i hope that's true because if not, i'm going to have to delete my facebook account from about ten years ago. but it's gotten out of control out there. i'm not exactly sure whether they're continuing to let great cities like san francisco go downhill, but they are. >> these are foundational quality of life issues. i'll just speak for new york city. what you just described, the story mika read, is happening in new york, too. you walk into a cvs or a duane reade, and the shelves are either cleaned out by people who have stolen the things and walked out with garbage bags, or as mika says, everything is locked down to toothpaste. used to be razor blades and things this were expensive. now almost everything is locked up. let's look at who is about to become the mayor of new york city. a former cop who, when he was in studio with us a couple weeks ago, said we have to start with these quality of life issues. we have to make our city safe. we have to make our city livable. that goes to questions of homelessness. it goes to big questions of crime. it goes to petty crime like the ones we're talking about in pharmacies, cvs stores, things like that. that's why, in part, he got elected. crime and quality of life were the number one issues for new york city voters. a former 24-year new york city cop was made the democratic nominee and the likely mayor of new york city because of those questions. >> at the end of the day, these are all about choices. these are all about public policy choices that mayors make, that city council members make, that leaders in communities make. if you start seeing tents popping up in san francisco or washington, d.c. or in other major cities, that is a choice by city officials to let homeless people do things that are dangerous for them, could be dangerous for other people, things that are unsanitary, things that might actually promote crime. not just from people living in those tents but directed toward people in those tents. it is insanity. >> i think we all agree -- >> do we? i think we all agree. >> that the gap during covid, inequality gap has widened, and there are a lot of people hurting. so the description that you were just making shows that also these new mayors and city officials have to address two things at once. just like eddie was talking about. i do think there are people who are really hurting, and it is a reason some of this is happening. >> yes. and two things can be true at once. we can have problems in covid. you know what else is true right now? there are more job openings -- >> i know. >> -- today, there are more job openings today than in the history of the united states of america. >> there are a lot of people who really need help to get to a place where they can work. >> sure. >> mental health crisis. >> i agree with that. >> we could go on for a long time. it is a good thing there is a three hour show we host called "morning joe." >> people need help. they're not going to get help living in tents. >> i know. >> near intersections. they're not going to get help with san francisco continuing to allow people to sleep on the street, who need mental health help, who need help getting into shelters and being taken care of and being kept safe at night. >> mm-hmm. >> that's -- so, yes, two, three, four, five, six things can be true at one time. the fact is, this has been an ongoing problem in cities like san francisco pre-covid, all right? pre-2020. again, they're choices made by leaders. it is going to be very interesting. glad to hear what bill de blasio said about quality of life in new york city. it is beginning to be very interesting to see what happens when eric adams becomes the next mayor of new york city. coming up, donald trump remains the overwhelming choice for voters among potential 2024 republican presidential primary candidates. 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eh, not so pretty. we're going to get there, i hope. i hope, i hope. let's bring in white house editor for "politico," sam stein. sam, you've got some new polling numbers for us. what do they tell us? >> hey, guys. i just downed a ton of bayer aspirin for my heart condition, then i'll get to the poll numbers here. >> good. >> before you start coughing up blood, go ahead. >> wait, did something happen with bayer aspirin? i've been taking it for years. >> yeah. >> no, we have a poll on the 2024 race or what will be a race. it shows donald trump is in the driver's seat. 47% saying they want trump to be the nominee. >> wow. >> or would vote for him, i should say. the remaining cast, not great. mike pence at 12%. desantis at 12%. don, jr. at 6%. i look back to 2016. everyone was like, trump can't break 35. wide open field. we ended up with trump. if he is up 47% now, it suggests this is, in fact, his party. >> how is josh hollie doing? he obviously made a name for him by leading an insurrection against the u.s. government, gapping the mantle of trumpism. is he doing well? >> 0% in this poll. could be 1%. i think it's zero. >> really? >> not good. >> what about mike pompeo? >> there is room for improvement. improvement, joe. >> there is. how about mike pompeo? pompeo did a lot of things that offended people that knew him before, when he was secretary of state. again, he lurked toward trump because he thought that would help him out. remember the madison dinners he would have? could have been illegal. i'm not sure if they were or not. he'd actually use a position of secretary of state to raise money for a future presidential run. many people suspected. how is he doing in this poll? >> i don't have pompeo's number in front of me, but it is similarly between 0% and 1%, i believe. >> oh, okay. >> i don't have the direct number in front of me. the only ones who registered were desantis and pence. 12%. i don't really see the pence number sticking at 12%. >> yeah. you know, i was going to ask about desantis. what i hear, i'm sure what you hear quietly debehind the skeeb -- behind the scenes is people saying, we want somebody like desantis, donald trump. but your poll suggests that's not true at all. the rank and file of the party still wants donald trump. he's still -- he still owns this republican party. >> right. another interesting number we have is that 67% of republicans, 67% said yes, they do want him to run for president. so you could look at that and say there's, what, 33% saying they don't? you know, i think if you said 67%, you're not a divisive figure. we know the pattern from 2016. that's a really good number. when you -- i don't know if you saw the rally on saturday that he held in iowa, but when you have chuck grassley, the dean of the republican senate, standing up there being like, i'd be a fool if i didn't stand next to donald trump, as donald trump slams mitch mcconnell and says election integrity is the issue of our time, aka i was robbed of my re-election, that says pretty much everything about where the republican party is right now. that is, they are cozying up to donald trump. happy for him to run again. there are alternatives, but they're not considering them. >> the impact on our country as a whole, given these poll numbers you've just put in front of us, you heard hillary clinton the other day on "the view." she talked about the constitutional crisis this country is still in. donald trump getting 20,000 people in iowa, doing a rally in iowa. you have all these republicans in office right now, serving in congress, going to mar-a-lago and kissing the ring still. given that trump is still wielding so much power, i think it does reflect what hillary clinton has said. we are still very much in the midst of this crisis. it's not behind us. >> again, sam, in defining that crisis as a party still following a man who is saying that the 2020 election was stolen and still talking about conspiracy theories, still trying to undermine american democracy. go ahead. >> yeah. i mean, i think barnicle said it earlier in the program. if i am giving it to him erroneously, i apologize. but this is the existential threat of our day. you can't just look away from the fact that democracy is very much at stake, at least our belief in a democratic governance. we're ten months away, maybe more, from the elections. if you look at any opinion poll, there is an immense amount of doubt among republicans about the validity of the election. we've had time and again audits, fake audits, investigations into those counts, and they all come up with a biden win. if we can't agree on the basic fact that joe biden has won, you have steve scalise saying he can't, you know, agree that joe biden has won, then you don't have a real foundational element of our country. yeah, it's hard to conclude anything other than that. then you look forward and say, okay, you know, if 2020 happened the way it did, what's to say 2024 won't be worse? especially if donald trump looks like he is going to run, as it appears, and his poll numbers suggest he'll get the nomination? >> republicans are laying the groundwork for it being worse. congratulations being tied with josh hollie neck and neck in this poll as you run for president. >> thank you. >> as i look through some of the numbers though, joe biden at 47%. there's been a lot of consternation in the last couple weeks about his poll numbers. what's wrong with him, and how he can reverse things. 47% is higher than we've seen from other people. you go down the list, members of congress polling terribly. pelosi at 36%. schumer, 28%. mccarthy and mcconnell at 22%. that top line number on biden at 47%, what do you make of that? >> yeah. a little bit different than the cw recently, which had him in the low 40s. quinnipiac had an approval rating of 48%. this is my theory in the case of biden right now. which is that it comes down to the pandemic. i mean, i know it is not a sophisticated analysis, right? but everything is premised on getting the pandemic right. you look at the job numbers. you look at who is putting the economy in the fall. you look at everything in terms of politics and the orientation of the politics. if he can get the pandemic in check, and there's good -- there's been some good news in recent days, his political fortunes will turn around gradually. afghanistan was obviously a big hit in august. really, if you dive into these numbers, most of it is about his trust in handling the pandemic where he was suffering. i think once the delta variant can get under control, once the economy starts reopening a little bit, those numbers will improve. perhaps that's what is explaining this political poll, which shows a higher approval rating than he has had in the past couple weeks. >> "politico's" sam stein, thank you so much for that. >> thanks, guys. >> we look forward to seeing you again. still ahead, president trump's former chief of staff mark meadows is supposed to appear before congress this week to testify before the committee investigating the january 6th insurrection. but will he show up? what happens if he doesn't? we'll be joined by a member of that select committee, congresswoman stephanie murphy, amid the fight over subpoenas. 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(woman) yeah, y-you did. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ in 2016, i was working at the amazon warehouse when my brother passed away. and a couple of years later, my mother passed away. after taking care of them, i knew that i really wanted to become a nurse. amazon helped me with training and tuition. today, i'm a medical assistant and i'm studying to become a registered nurse. in filipino: you'll always be in my heart. implement and continue to work to implement these requirements across the country, incluing in the states where there are attempts to oppose them. i will say, since you gave me the opportunity, governor abbott's executive order panning mandates, and announcement by governor desantis this morning essentially banning the implementation of mandates, fit a familiar pattern that we've seen, putting politics ahead of public health. over 700,000 american lives have been lost due to covid-19, including more than 56,000 in florida and over 68,000 in texas. and every leader should be focused on supporting efforts to save lives and end the pandemic. >> i feel like jen psaki is one of the most patient people on earth, honestly. >> other than you. >> every day. >> number two, jen. number one, mika. patient with me, and i'm grateful for that. >> welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle and eddie glaude still with us. we have white house reporter for the "associated press," jonathan lemire. >> eddie, i was telling my wife during break, people say, oh, you all are great and have come together. i was telling my wife in the break, it is so great to know that you're still a liberal. at heart, you're still a liberal. >> so are you. >> she's like, oh, people go into lululemon with shopping bags, and they steal $2,000 worth of -- >> i'm talking about toothpaste. >> -- clothes, well, because of the sad state of affairs. i shout it out, who yelled, the kennedys win after all? it was you and me. this collective guilt. i love that my wife still thinks that way. it makes me know things haven't changed so much. we still can have a little back and forth. you steal lululemon stuff, i say you're in the jailhouse now. i want to see cops on the street. i want to see people arrested. whether it's a cvs in san francisco or whether it's a louis vuitton in chicago. >> joe, i'm just delighted because this morning i learned how to pronounce lululemon. >> there you go. >> you two model what we actually need in this country, right? love apart from partisanship. this is great. >> amen. willie geist, all the people said amen. >> thank god. >> when the professor speaks, people listen. amen. >> they do. look who has come in. look who the -- what did my mom say -- look who the cat dragged in. jonathan lemire. boston red sox fan. would you like to comment on any of the games that went down yesterday? the fact we're playing the houston astros. >> as discussed, this is a moment, a rare moment now, where i think the boston red sox have become america's team yet again. where the nation will be united behind -- >> amen. >> -- us against a common foe, the houston astros. their reputation is stained by a cheating scandal that had nothing to do with alex cora, the current manager of the red sox. >> nothing. >> make that very clear. yeah, the sentimental favorite. mike barnicle, i'm sure people come up to you on the street and said, we're with you, mike, with lemire, with joe. hasn't happened yet? hopefully it will. i think it'll be a great series. we're the underdog. astros' lineup, top to bottom, is terrific. sox seem to have a little something going on right now. >> they're focused. alex cora has never extremely focused. the other night with the grand slam home run, it was 5-2. suddenly, just like that, alex cora, break in the inning, walked up and down that bench and said, look at it this way. we are behind 3-0. it's the first inning. we have a lot to go. we're going to win this game. he's got them extraordinarily focused, but they are the underdog. you're correct. >> guys, i just want to say, let's not push it here. this is a fragile peace between us. i said i was rooting for you, but i could, like that, be pushed into the arms of the houston astros, the cheating houston astros. jonathan, if you're this obnoxious about it, i'll go to the cheating who owe the championship and jose altuve who owes aaron judge the mvp award. >> it's true. >> i know there's some people out there who said, hey, the boston red sox cheated as well. there were investigations. but what they found was we didn't cheat that well. jackie bradley jr. was hitting .174. they said, wait a second, he couldn't have known where all the pitches were going. by the way, i miss jbj. i love him. yeah, but i was thinking about this as i was watching the astros play yesterday. i'm talking because my liberal life loves hearing me talk about baseball. i was watching, and i sort of -- i looked at this astros team and said, really, this is the best team of our time. by the way, they're great whether they're cheating or not cheating. when we talk about cheating, we're talking about stealing signs, something that has happened in baseball for like a century. let's not just -- let's not fall too hard on our fainting couches. what they did was disgusting. two things can be true at one time. but i look at the astros, and i think, such a shame. even though i don't like them as a team, they're one of the great teams of our time. there was a parallel with barry bonds. one of the great players of our time. barry bonds was great before he started cheating. this was a 30/30 guy every year. my son joey was saying, this guy, bonds, dad, you're not paying a lot of attention to baseball, one he is one of the ten best players of all time. he is extraordinary. that was before he was juicing. i kind of feel that way about the astros. it is a shame they cheated so openly and flagrantly, more than the other teams in baseball, and will have this cloud hanging over them for the rest of their lives. willie, your thoughts? >> yeah. no, i actually agree with you about that. they're not cheating now. in theory, the white sox suggested they might still be cheating a little bit, and that made them very sad, the astros. those are great players. altuve, a great player. in 2017, he hit better on the road than at home, which goes against some of the ideas that the cheating may have helped him. but, in fact, there's a guy on second base stealing signs for a catcher and setting up video equipment in the out field to replay it back. that's different. but the home run race between mcguire and sosa, he said, i'm better than those guys. he joined, unfortunately, the steroid club. the same could be said in a different way for the astros. they're fundamentally a great team, as they're proving again this year, but they did, it's proven, not speculation, they did cheat for a couple of years. >> i don't want to go too deep here, but i'm going to the 1950s. 1954, mike. even the shot heard around the world, the most famous home run probably in the history of baseball, bobby thompson, chances are very good that he cheated on that. he got a signal from center field. it's just -- stealing signs has been a part of baseball for a very long time. again, i'm not arguing the astros' case here. i'm just saying, i do think a couple players probably should have been banned from the sport, at least for a couple years. but it shouldn't continue to hang over the astros for the next five, six, seven years. >> yeah. but it will, joe. i mean, they were tainted by that scandal because it was so planned, extravagantly planned. willie is correct, sign stealing is as old as the game itself. always looking for an edge. bobby thompson looking at the centerfield light going on and off in the office. that's as old as baseball itself. but the way the astros concocted and devised their plan, that was the difference maker. they're going to have to live with that. they are a great team. they have great players. they're going to be the favorite against the red sox, no doubt about that. but that stain is going to be with them for a long, long time. >> and the mlb investigated the red sox. let's be fair, both sides. during the same time, they didn't give the red sox much of a penalty. they gave alex cora a penalty for the time he was in houston. they never really followed what the sox, what mlb ended up saying the sox did or didn't do that season. >> they basically said the illegal use of electronic images. in other words, they had one guy who would set up the batting cage behind the bench, behind the dugout, and he was looking at live pictures of the astro -- of whatever catcher the game encapsulated, you know, flashing the signs. he'd pass on what the signs were in live action to the players. that was a violation. >> okay. let's get to the news a little past the top of the hour. the house committee investigating the january 6th attack of the capitol will impose criminal contempt charges against those who do not comply with its subpoenas. that's according to the potential's vice chair republican congresswoman liz cheney of wyoming. last month, the committee subpoenaed four members of former president donald trump's administration, including former chief of staff mark meadows and -- >> who wears it better? bannon or meadows? can we go back to the last -- who wears it better? can we go back to the first split, t.j.? i'm trying to figure out, right there. trying to figure out there. what do we think? bannon there, he looks like an aging rock star. you wouldn't think he was at a fascism trying to take over the united states government. >> right. >> lemire, i'll go to you, who wears it better? >> steve bannon can only be described as tan, fit, and rested, joe. >> he looks good. >> luxurious locks. he looks fantastic. he's also known, of course, for wearing 17 layers at a time. he'd wear shirt over shirt over shirt, which served his own unique fashion style. >> i like that. >> did you ever ask steve bannon why he would wear shirt over shirt over shirt? i'm going to try that one day. >> it is a topic of conversation, joe. you could pull it off. you sometimes, i know, go shirt and then polo shirt over it. you have the sweater going now, looks good. you have to add a bunch of layers to match what mr. bannon does. >> speaking of the sweater, willie geist, remember the winter i was the iron man of sweaters? every day. >> yes. >> i wore my blue sweater. land's end blue sweater every day for six months. >> yeah. we could trace your breakfast for the week right across the sweater. a little donut powder. >> right here. >> scrambled eggs there. >> yeah, it was a real journey across the sweater. >> don't break the fourth wall. okay? good lord. >> sometimes, like, honestly, you really -- >> look at the camera. >> i can't stand it. there's a blond hair. i got it. there we go. all right. [ laughter ] he's a mess. look at this. >> powdered sugar wednesday. >> somehow, about steve bannon, he's already declared he will not comply with the subpoena, according to nbc news. select committee member democratic congressman jamie raskin implied in a tweet that those who defy the subpoenas may have more to fear than just charges, saying that they will face, quote, referral for criminal prosecution at the very least. joining us now, another member of the select committee, congresswoman stephanie murphy of florida. she's chief deputy whip of the house majority. thank you very much for coming on. i'd like to dive into this. when i ask what will happen if these people don't answer subpoenas and don't show up, i guess, you know, the answers, we're going to do everything in our power. we're going to do everything we can. i would like to know what exactly it is that's going to happen if these people refuse to show up. which they most likely will. what actually physically will happen? how will we get to hear from these people? how will the testimony will compelled? >> mika, good morning. it is great to be with you all. i know there's a lot of chatter right now on twitter and social media about how the committee isn't going to enforce our subpoenas. let me tell you very clearly, that that is not true. we intend to enforce our subpoenas, and the first step will be for us to pursue criminal contempt. what that means is that the committee will put together a report and refer it to the house floor. there will be a vote, then it goes to the department of justice. i fully expect this department of justice to uphold and enforce that subpoena. i think this department of justice believes that nobody is above the law. and we have to understand that the context of what we are pursuing, the information we are pursuing is so critical to our democracy and to the future of this country. we are a nation that depends on the peaceful transfer of power. when elections, no matter how contested they are, when those election results are delivered, that we accept those results and move forward. what we saw on january 6th was an attempt to use political violence to change the outcome of an election. i'm somebody who came from a country, vietnam, where political violence was the method for political transitions. i, for one, will not stand by and see that happen here in this country, a country i love so much. >> so, congresswoman, we saw too often during the last session of congress members of the trump administration just ignore congressional subpoenas. it really was shocking. it was as many they had no impact at all. will it be the recommendation of you and other members of congress, that if these congressional subpoenas are ignored, the justice department jail those who don't comply? >> the consequences of criminal contempt are both fines as well as jail time. and i -- my hope is that this department of justice will act on that. because we have to demonstrate we are serious about theesz these subpoenas. the people who evade subpoenas is going to face the full consequences of the law. >> would you recommend jail time? >> i would recommend the full extent of consequences. jail time, fines. we need to make sure that these people understand that this is not acceptable. >> all right. willie? >> congresswoman, so you're supposed to have mark meadows, steve bannon before you to testify. mark meadows hasn't indicated whether he'll show up and give a deposition. he was available to show up on fox news and do an interview earlier this week. when asked about it, he said, i'll let the lawyers handle this, then went into a nonsensical answer saying, we've been through two impeachments. why are we doing this? it is unrelated, a separate issue you don't have to answer for. let's take mark meadows, former chief of staff to president trump, what questions do you have for him? >> there's a variety of questions i have for all of the people that we're bringing in before this committee. the purpose of the committee is to lay out all of the facts, all of the events that led up to january 6th, and then what happened on january 6th. so of mark meadows and anybody else in front of us, i want to know how much planning was involved, who was involved in the planning, who funded it, how they -- what their intent was when they came into that day, and then what they knew as that day unfolded and the safety and security of people like the vice president and members of congress were at risk. what they did, either to respond or not respond on that occasion. what we have to do is lay out the full set of facts so the american people understand how perilous we were in that moment, how close our democracy was to going over the cliff. and to ensure we can lay out the facts and figure out how to fix this situation so we don't have anybody who takes the opportunity to try to undo a fair and free election. >> congresswoman murphy, we have all heard, with all due respect, the phrases not just from you but from other members of congress, to the full extent of the law. my question to you is the subpoenas that have been issued, they are in effect federal subpoenas. are you dealing with the u.s. marshall service? because in federal court, people who don't take advantage of responding to the subpoena, the marshalls go out and bring them to court. are you going to use the marshall service to bring people like mark meadows to congress? >> i know we have engaged with a wide variety of law enforcement offices, including the u.s. marshals, in order to issue the subpoenas. we will use everything, as you said, with all due respect, we will use all of the agencies and all of the tools at our disposal to issue the subpoenas and enforce them. >> all right. congresswoman stephanie murphy, thank you so much. thank you for your service. we appreciate your coming on the show this morning. hundreds of supporters of former president donald trump gathered yesterday at the michigan state capitol to push for yet another audit of the 2020 election. despite several previous audits and investigations certifying president biden's win in the state. the trump-backed republican candidate for michigan attorney general attended the rally and called out the state's current attorney general by name. take a look. >> i've been threatened by dana nestle. she thinks people should be criminally prosecuted. i have been told, in fact demanded by the elected officials, to stop talking about this issue. i have been told to stop talking about america first values. >> lock her up! lock her up! >> i stood and i fought to try to vindicate president trump. dana nestle doesn't value your rights, but we need an army to fight. >> well, i think that's just chilling. michigan's attorney general dana nestle joins us now. i guess, first, i'd ask for you to respond to what you just heard, what we just played, that you were threatening this man. also, the chanting in the audience. here we go again. oh, okay. you know what? i really want to hear what she has to say, and obviously we're having audio problems. this happens with the technicalities of getting people all over the country on zoom and whatever. let's take a quick break. let's fix the issue, and we'll be right back to continue this conversation right where it started. really make my dry skin healthier in one day? it's true jen. really?! this nourishing prebiotic oat formula moisturizes to help prevent dry skin. one day? for real! wow! aveeno® healthy. it's our nature.™ i gotta say i'm still impressed. very impressed. new daily moisture for face. everything you love for your body now for your face. 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>> i absolutely believe it does. i should say this. you know, the attorney general in the united states, you know, for each of us in our respective states, we are the top law enforcement officials. you hear all of these ags talking about how they subscribe to the rule of law. they're rule of law ags or rule of law ag candidates. yet, here they support a man who we know did everything in his power to bend and break the law in order to undermine the 2020 election, which i think is not a very law and order position to take. but if people like matthew deperno end up winning in the swing states for attorney general and secretary of state, i think democracy as we know it will be completely gone by 2024. irrespective of who gets the most votes, the candidate of their choice, which is clearly donald trump, will become president, and we will be reduced to, i guess, an oligarchy. no longer a republic. >> it's jonathan lemire. beyond, of course, winning an election, are there safeguards in your state to prevent that from happening? on a personal level, how are you feeling? the governor of your state was the target of a kidnapping plot last year that was broken up by federal investigators. obviously, a dangerous situation there. how afraid are you for your personal safety? >> well, honestly, very afraid. it's not just the governor who, of course, has been the primary target, but myself, secretary of state benson. frankly, both elected and appointed officials all over the state of michigan have been subject to threats for quite some time now. that goes all the way from the president of the united states to, you know, public health officials to members of school boards. there is no one, seemingly, who is safe at this point from this type of rhetoric. do i think it is only a matter of time before we have people who actually act on these threats? absolutely, i see it coming. that's why we've cracked down so hard in our state on hate crimes and domestic terrorism, and why we had to create a unit in the office that does nothing but that. >> it's chilling but it is a real threat. you live with it every day, attorney general nessel. let me ask about the investigations that already have taken place in your state. one from the secretary of state and one as you just laid out for us from republicans, republicans in the state of michigan that found, yes, joe biden did win. i should also underline, the race wasn't particularly close in michigan, relative to, say, georgia, where it was less than 12,000 votes. joe biden won by 154,000 votes in michigan. are you confident the two investigations that have already taken place were exhaustive and conclusive to find joe biden did win michigan, and that, indeed, the rallies and this call for another investigation is simply frivolous and simply politics? >> well, look, there's a reason that donald trump and his campaign did not request a recount, which is normally what you do if you think there is an issue. because they knew there was no way they could ever possibly make up 154,000 vote difference. again, we've had these 250 audits, pursuant to constitutional provisions in michigan that were conducted by our secretary of state. we have both republican and democratic clerks from all around the state of michigan who have indicated that the election was safe, secure, fair, and accurate. now you actually have the auditor general who was appointed by the republican legislature who is doing yet another audit. so i don't know how many audits you have to do to come to the same conclusion. that is that joe biden overwhelmingly won our state. but i think that donald trump and his minions are simply not going to be happy and aren't satisfied until someone, somehow, some way, comes to the opposite conclusion, whether it is an accurate conclusion or not. i think it's actually being used as a litmus test as to whether or not he will support candidates in this state. you have to say that you want a forensic audit, whatever the hell that is, by the way, because it is not a real phrase, right? unless you say you are for one, unless you come to the conclusion that the election must have been stolen and that, somehow, donald trump must have been the real winner in our state, you are not going to get his support for the nomination for any race, no matter whether it's governor of our state or whether, you know, you're running for a local school board. >> all right. michigan attorney general dana nessel, thank you. thank you for rolling with the audio issues. appreciate hearing from you. in texas, anor in a county d trump won by a landslide resigned, being forced out of office. a 14-year veteran of election work was hired to oversee elections in hood county 2 1/2 months before the 2020 election and later became a public face of a voting system local residents have come to mistrust. her critics sought to abolish her position and give her duties to an elected county clerk, who has used social media to promote baseless allegations of widespread election fraud, according to the "tribune." trump won 81%. >> 81%. >> of the vote in hood county. >> 81%. >> the paper goes on to say critics accused carew of harboring a secret liberal agenda and violating a deck aids deades old law, despite complying with texas rules. >> eddie glaude. >> wow. >> we need to connect the dots every day. you have republican state legislatures across the country that are saying, we're not going to let local officials count votes. if we want to come in and overrule them, throw out votes, we'll throw out the votes. we're going to get rid of secretaries of state that actually -- republicans that did the right thing in georgia, arizona, other states. people that run elections in maricopa county. you connect that dot with the fact that people that are running elections, local elections, are also being run out of their position. look what's happening in local school boards where people are being threatened. their children -- they're threatened with their children being taken away from them. look at the violence on january 6th. this is what bill maher said this last week is a slow-moving coup. let's take a deep breath. people thought we overreacted the last four, five years. maybe we did at times. make no mistake, what donald trump and his supporters are trying to do is piece together a slow-moving coup. trying to figure out where things went wrong for them last time when they tried to subvert american democracy. what republicans showed courage and class and a love for the united states constitution, and who they need to get rid of and who they need to put in place and who they need to intimidate, who they need to beat up, who they need to threaten. whether it's in school boards, whether it's local election officials, or whether it's state legislatures. so they can do what bill maher is saying, so they can move forward with a slow-moving coup. that's where we are. >> absolutely right, joe. two things are happening simultaneously. one, with every call for an audit or whatever the hell it is, they're sowing distrust. they're delegitimatiing the process. combine it with if the voting results are not what they like, they're putting in place the folks to overturn it. we see it over and over again. if the audit doesn't give the results they want, call for another one. they call for another one. we see clearly here exactly what you're saying, right? a slow-moving coup. seems to me that if we're right, if that description is correct, and i think it is, we need to be sounding a five alarm about our democratic republic. it seems to me that republican party, the mitt romneys, the ben sasses, the people who are supposed to be responsible. the only reasonable party it seems because the other is overrun, we need to save democracy. we see in real time these folk are trying to overthrow what we cherish most. >> here you have these idiots in texas, willie, a county donald trump won by 81%, trying to run somebody off. you see it with school board members having their lives threatened, having their children threatened. we see it everywhere. it is, again, connect the dots. this is pretty obvious stuff. >> yeah. it's not a dress rehearsal. as eddie says, it is happening right now. listen to the attorney general of michigan who says she fears for her life. they have extra security. >> crazy. >> governor of the state was the victim of a plot to kidnap and perhaps kill her. that's real. that happened. that's the fbi. that's what's going on on lower levels around the country. when people are more aggressive, they're more passionate, more willing to be violent if they have to be. it's happening right now, and people are being installed at state and local levels who can do things to the 2024 election, which thank god they weren't able to do to the 2020 election. >> all right. still ahead on "morning joe," colombia is the latest country where american officials have reported incidents of the mysterious havana syndrome. what we know about that new investigation. plus, a major music festival, coachella, reverses plans to require vaccinations for ticket holders. the reasoning behind that surprise move. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ok, let's talk about those changes to your financial plan. bill, mary? 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(woman) yeah, y-you did. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ your eyes. beautiful on the outside, but if you have diabetes, there can be some not-so-pretty stuff going on inside. it's true, with diabetic retinopathy, excess sugar can damage blood vessels, causing vision loss or even blindness. so remember this: now is the time to get your eyes checked. eye care is important to your long-term diabetes management. see a path forward with actions and treatments that may help your eyes— and protect against vision loss. visit noweyesee.com and take control of your sight. 40 past the hour. 20 before the top of the hour. a live look at washington as the sun is up, but very, very cloudy day. welcome back to "morning joe." the state department is investigating new reports of the so-called havana syndrome. this time, at the u.s. embassy in colombia. secretary of state antony blinken is scheduled to visit the south american country next week. the president says the country would be investigating the reports. over the past five years, more than 200 u.s. government officials in several countries have reported symptoms. >> jonathan lemire, this is becoming obviously a very serious problem. a serious problem -- well, it's been serious from the start for the people that were attacked in havana. now a widespread problem happening in colombia, happening across europe, happening to a friend of mine that went to russia on official business, on official business, was attacked. so the question is, how much longer are we going to allow people that are serving the u.s. government, representing the u.s. government, to continue to be attacked and not do something about it? with all the technology we have, we're light years ahead of the russians. we're light years ahead of the chinese still. we're light years ahead of anybody who would be attacking us. i find it hard to believe we can't figure this out. >> yeah. there's been a real uptick in cases lately, joe. variety of new countries. india recently. there was also in vietnam, just ahead of the vice president's visit there, there was real concern as to whether they were going to let vice president harris continue with the trip to hanoi. they did, and there were no other incidents while she was there. look, this is a mystery as to what this is. there are some voices, it should be said, within the government who are doubtful this is even a real thing. most do believe that it does exist. they're not sure what it is. the leading theory is some sort of microwave or radio assault, whether it is an attack on attempt to maybe hack, to try to break into someone's devices and, therefore, a side effect is hurting the individual, giving them the headaches, dizziness, nausea, symptoms vary person too person. the theoryied it. the u.s. has been, behind the scenes, chastising them, saying this can't be going on. they've held their fire to this point. there is growing pressure among the diplomatic core in particular, unhappy people at the state department who says, enough is enough. protect our people working overseas, on the front lines of diplomacy. i think tougher measures are going to be needed. >> they have to get tougher on this. it's happened in india. it's happened in colombia. it's happened in cuba. it's happened in russia. it's happened across the world. it seems to me, mike, i just -- i'm having a hard time figuring out how you could have so many attacks, even one in northern virginia, and the united states government can't figure this out? >> you're in line with the united states government, joe, because they can't figure it out. we don't know the source of the attacks, if indeed they are attacks. you've had all these embassies around the world, the state department employees suffering from something, and yet we can't put our finger exactly on what that is. it is a quandary for the state department, which is vastly undermanned, which i think, jonathan, is part of the story in and of itself, given the gutting of the bureaucracy in the state department the past four years, but the idea has to be primary to figure out first what it is. then we have to deal with it. but they're trying to do what they can do up to this point, and it is not much. >> mika, i find it hard to believe that after all those attacks on u.s. state department officials, on members of the agency, that they can't still figure out what in the hell it is. >> frightening. it's absolutely frightening. moving on to other headlines now. two of the largest health care providers in ohio are requiring covid-19 vaccinations for organ transplants. the cleveland clinic and university hospitals say vaccine mandates apply to patients and living donors prior to the procedures. according to a statement from the cleveland clinic, patients on a waiting list for organ transplantation from a deceased donor have until november 1st to become vaccinated or they'll be considered inactive on the waiting list. california's music and arts festival, coachella, is reversing its plan to require vaccinations for next year's events. instead, attendees must show proof of a negative covid test taken within 72 hours of the festival or proof of vaccination. the announcement was made through instagram stories on coachella's official page. citing low transmission data and successful safety protocols at other festivals for the change. the festival is scheduled for april of next year. interesting. still to come on this edition of "morning joe," new fallout over shocking emails from the now former coach of the las vegas raiders football team. what the league knew and when. 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finally back on stage. >> very exciting. >> very exciting. very exciting. and my first time on broadway. i'm loving it. >> why don't we start with you, first of all, tell us about the show. we kind of know how it ends. >> yeah, no spoiler there. >> what a great drama to watch unfold. what do members of the audience experience, watching this? >> i's incredibly theatrical, there's three actors, three of us, we play between us 58, 53 characters. so the audience watched us shift and change, become different characters. little boys. wives, husbands, dealers, the brothers themselves, their sons, their grandchildren, over the course of the evening. so you get this sort of family saga wrapped around everything that happened over the past 160 years financially. in america. and that's as much as i can boil it down to. >> well, it's an incredible period of time to cover in a stage play. so you begin selling cotton commodities and you end up with highly technical stuff that you're talking about. how do you do it? >> well, as adrian said it's very theatrical, we touch things lightly. very big things like the second world war, the first world war, we skate it away quickly. but there are three boys from bavaria, in the 1940s, we speed through their financing railways, their financing the film industry. so, lots of things are mentioned then we end in about the 1970s. so well before 2008, but 2008 is in the back of the play. >> you have worked with sam man mandez -- >> yeah, "skyfall"? >> yes, he's the most incredible director. >> this is your first play on broadway? >> no, it's my third. >> it's my first. >> adrian's first. >> tell me about working with sam mendez, as a stage director? >> i think he's a magician, the depth and breadth of how to create a production to make it as extraordinarily entertaining for an audience, it's magical to be around. we were fortunate to have a very long rehearsal for this production because we were creating the play in its form as you see now as we were rehearsing it. so sam's very inclusive in that sense. he's got a fantastic sense of humor. sam is very fun to be around, a wicked sense of humor. and he's very collaborative, so we were able to work together to fashion this play to figure out who was going to play what. when we started, we didn't really know. we knew which lehman brother we'd play. but as adrian said, we're playing so many other characters, wives, children, babies, all sorts of people. and we think it all out together. so it's been a very collaborative process. and, of course, he's made this -- he's experience in film, i think, has very much informed his approach to theater. so, we have an enormous screen wrapping around our set which is constantly moving and projecting images which reflect what is going on in the play. so visually for the audience, it's an incredible experience. and it's definitely who designed our sets, the sort of rotating cube, the last cube, that we work in. i think visually, apart from everything else, it's an amazing experience. >> this is an extraordinary telescopic account of capitalism is the story. what did you learn from slavery to financialization? >> this is an extremely complex. >> you're talking to an ig that ig. we start with selling things and end up mystery trading numbers. and i think for many of us, that was the big lesson of how we developed capitalism through the 19th century. i mean, there are amazing moments when their ambition and their sort of courage in financing the panama canal at one point. it was 40 years ago, you were young men in bavaria on a cattle farm. so that's just a fun expansion of ambition. but also the gradual destruction of financial trading is i think is what we tell the story of. >> and also i think overcoming adversity and turning it to advantage. going through these extraordinary sort of world experiences and coming out even stronger. and i think there's a very hopeful message in that. >> a hopeful message that, man, i'm so excited to see this. i can't wait. can't wait. to get back to broadway. mika, we've got to go. >> we need to go to the show. >> "the lehman trilogy" opens tomorrow. i know they're going to love it. >> simon russell, adam behl and ian adrian lester, thank you very much. broadway is back. still ahead, actor william shatner is about to boldly go where no other hollywood star has gone before. we'll get a live report ahead of the space launch. plus, texas governor abbott's mandate is setting up a clash with the biden administration and the state. we're back in one minute. we're almost there. congress is close to passing a clean energy plan that tackles climate change head on by creating millions of good-paying jobs in the fastest growing industries. we can lower utility bills for families today while protecting the planet our children inherit tomorrow. congress, our window to act is closing and once it does, it may never open again. act on climate change, now. oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? so you only pay for what you need. sorry? limu, you're an animal! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, october 13th. let's get right to the news. there are two new developments from the white house in the fight against covid-19. overnight, the biden administration announced it will allow fully vaccinated foreign travelers to enter the united states by land, starting next month. for the first time since march of 2020, visitors from canada or mexico will be able to come into the u.s. for nonessential purposes like tourism. meanwhile, the white house is telling governors across the country to start preparing to vaccinate children, as young as 5, by early november. this is in anticipation of the fda clearing pfizer's covid-19 vaccine for children ages 5 to 11 in the coming weeks. fda approval. the biden administration has purchased 65 million pediatric doses of the pfizer vaccine. enough to vaccinate the estimated 28 million children who would be eligible for a shot. that is such big news, joe. >> well, it really is, because, eddie, i've had a lot of people call me and say, you know, through the year, kids can't really get covid, can they? and if they can, why do they need a vaccination? does it make any sense? this is all some one world conspiracy or bill gates conspiracy or a soros conspiracy. there's a reason why you and i and our children and everybody get polio vaccines when there wasn't really much of a chance we'd get polio, or the four or five other vaccines that we get. because you want to have a universal vaccine to make sure we get rid of whatever disease we're trying to get rid of. what you're trying to get rid of. i've got a family member, a close family member, vaccinated, doing well. but his child came back from school. and covid spread through his child's school. and now the entire family has it. they're going to be fine. they're going to be fine because they all have of the vaccines and they're in pretty good shape. but still, this shows, we have to try to make this universal. and these student arguments that you see on facebook or other corners of the internet, just ignores 50 years of vaccine history. >> you know, you're absolutely right. joe. and for some reason, we know that reason, the kind of fringe talk about vaccines. you know, the anti-vaxxers have now become kind of mainstream. but we know that whatever the new normal will be, it will involve protecting our children. and it will involve vaccinating our children against covid. so this is a really important development and hopefully, we can begin to push back against all of the misinformation that's happening on facebook and across the country. and kind of put back on margins on the anti-vaccines in a way to respond to covid. particularly with children. >> we'll see how many parents are willing to give their kids a vaccine if they themselves are not open to taking it. that will be an open question. yesterday, we told you about governor greg abbott to ban any business requiring vaccinations of its employees. miguel almaguer has the case. >> reporter: even with an executive prohibiting any entity including private businesses from imposing vaccine requirements fighting what he calls federal overreach, governor greg abbott said covid vaccines are safe, effective and our best defense against the virus but should remain voluntary and never forced. >> we continuously release mandates underlying everything that public health stands for. >> reporter: with many front line workers outraged by the ban on vaccine mandates abbott who contracted covid in august is trying to stop school districts from requiring masks and covid vaccines though they have long required vaccinations for diseases like polio and measles. some of the biggest are based in texas. we believe the federal vaccine mandate supersedes any conflicting state law. >> there have just been so many things that are have been perplexing that go against medical advice. that go against what some of the greatest scientific minds in the world have been advising us to do since the beginning of the pandemic. >> reporter: as our nation squabbles over mandates some 67 million eligible remain unvaccinated. the brooklyn nets say they have no choice but to play without nba superstar kyrie irving who has not complied with new york city's mandate to play at the barclay's center. >> i think it's disappointing that a high-profile athlete declined vaccination. we all should get vaccinated, not only for ourselves but on behalf of everybody around us. >> reporter: with many americans still refusing to get their first dose, this week, the fda will also take on boosters for those vaccinated with moderna and johnson & johnson. our nation deeply divided over the choice to vaccinate. and the right to implement mandates. >> miguel reported there on southwest and american airlines, both based in texas saying they will not follow the order by governor abbott barring covid-19 vaccine mandates by private businesses. "the wall street journal" reports, the greater houston partnership which represents 900 companies including exxonmobil and jpmorgan chase said mr. abbott's order would make it more difficult to operate safely. they've been supportive of mr. biden's efforts to require vaccines for large employers. joe, this is on large scale of what we saw from some of the school districts in florida in the face of golf desantis' ban saying we're going to do the best for the schools and put masks on our kids, bring it. now you have major cooperations like exxonmobil saying we're going to do what's best for our private companies. >> it's so interesting that some of these republican governors have run their entire life claiming to be pro-business have declared war on business. i always talk about the importance of a small business owner, the family restaurant, the young entrepreneurs that have startups that are trying to build their businesses. and you have greg abbott, you have ron desantis, you have other republican governors that are actually stepping in and stomping on them, taking away their freedom, as a private enterprise. as a free enterprise business. to do what they think is best for their companies. to keep their doors open. to keep their restaurants open. they're taking away that choice. this is like a socialist government not letting the private business, a family business, do what they think is best. i don't understand it. and, mike barnicle, now you have the biggest corporations saying the same thing. the biggest corporations that understand they need their people working. they need their people back at work, doing their jobs. getting their company going. getting the supply chain running again. and who's stopping them? republican governors. why? not because of science. >> no. no. >> not because of any medical advice. it is all just playing to the -- what was common denominator. and the dumbest conspiracy theories on the internet and facebook. they are at war against private enterprise. not letting them do what they need to do to move beyond covid. it's a craziest thing i've ever seen, in terms of republicans declaring war against business. >> joe, this is a continuing tragedy in this country. because what the governor of texas has said, what other republicans have said, has nothing to do with public health. or public policy. it's all about politics. yesterday, congressman jim jordan of ohio, the guy with no coat. the guy who never wears a coat, he urged an end to -- he urged ohio to end all mandates of all vaccines. not just thevaccines. >> oh, my god, what an idiot. >> polio, measles, all vaccines. that's where this is going. it's not just congress, joe, you know it's republican states, republican-led legislatures i might be wrong, i'm often wrong, this may be the epic issue of our age to re-hold on to our democracy in the light of all of these public people. elected governors, elected members of congress, elected members of the united states senate. we just had the -- you reported on it the other day, the number two republican in the house of representatives steve scalise of louisiana, still refusing to admit that joe biden is legitimately elected president of the united states. this is all happening right in front of our eyes. and from my point of view, from my grandchildren's point of view who i think about all day long, this is the issue of our time. because they're not going to have the country that we have. if we shut our eyes to this. build back better is really important. this is more important. still ahead, joe mentioned the lowest common denominator. and this next story is high in the running for that title. teachers and school officials being threatened for protecting children against covid. we'll show you one educator's startling account of that, next on "morning joe." ♪♪ [tv announcer] come on down to our appliance superstore where we've got the best deals on refrigerators, microwaves, gas ranges and grills. and if you're looking for... 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(woman) yeah, y-you did. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ it's another day. and anything could happen. it could be the day you welcome 1,200 guests and all their devices. or it could be the day there's a cyberthreat. only comcast business' secure network solutions give you the power of sd-wan and advanced security integrated on our activecore platform so you can control your network from anywhere, anytime. it's network management redefined. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. comcast business powering possibilities. ever wonder how san francisco became the greenest big city in america? just ask the employee owners of recology. we built the recycling system from the ground up, helping san francisco become the first city in the country to have a universal recycling and composting program for residents and businesses. but it all starts with you. let's keep making a differene together. ♪♪ florida's brevard county school board passed a resolution yesterday that promises to provide a safe environment for everyone at its meetings. the decision comes after months of heated debate between members of the public. and school board officials, mainly over the issue of masks in schools. one school board member, jennifer jenkins detailed the threats and intimidation, she, her family and even her neighbors have received this year. >> i am not opposed to people practicing their first amendment rights even when it's outside of my home on a public property. i'm not. i'm not. i think it's silly method, it doesn't move me or affect me in any way. and i'm not opposed to it. what i reject is this effort to create fear and division in a community that leads to credible threats of violence against me and my family. and there's a lot of things that i haven't shared with all of you up here. i tried not to talk about this stuff publicly. and when you guys brought this up today in the workshop, i felt -- i felt off guard and frustrated because then it became something on our agenda that i couldn't express to you why i was against it any longer. because now it has to be on the subject. i don't reject people coming here and speaking their voice. they do it all the time. we don't stop them from doing that. i don't reject them standing outside my home. i reject them following me around in a car. following my car around. i reject them saying they're coming for me. that i need to beg for mercy. i reject that when they are using their first amendment rights on public property, they're also going behind my home and brandishing their weapons to my neighbors. if they're making dcs claims to my daughter. that i have to take a dcs investigator to her play date to check underneath her clothing to check for burn marks. that's what i'm against which is an incredible threat and calculated. >> the dcf she's referring to is the florida department of children and families. willie, what mike was talking about in terms of where we are in the country, as more important as anything, i think that woman very eloquently described how it's playing out on a deeply personal level between americans. >> it's hard to believe this is happening in our country, but it's happening on school boards across the country. jennifer jenkins on the school board in brevard county. i was reading about her last night. she's a teacher, speech pathologist. she works with kids with developmental problems. her husband is a school teacher. these are what is being put in place. eddie, this is not unique. you can created a story about a father coming in berating the staff, including will be elementary school nurse because his son was taken out of school because he had a close contact with somebody who had covid. and they simply didn't want covid to spread throughout the school. there's something in the water now, eddie, something emboldened to them. to teachers, to nurses, to nurses shopping in grocery stores. to doctors, people, that they deem are out to get them because of what they heard on facebook or heard on a radio show somewhere. >> you know, willie, we often try to say these are fringe elements, but in some ways they are. but they've been mainstreamed. in many ways we're in a cold war. and in many ways it turns hot. it turned hot on january 6th. think about it, they reported her to the dcs, saying her child had burn marks. you think it's crazy outliers, but this has actually happened in people's everyday lives. we have to understand the stakes and intensity and scale of crisis we face. there are americans who are willing to threaten folks who are risking their lives every day to keep our children safe. who are risking their lives every day to make sure that this republic remains a republic. and we have to respond to this crisis in kind. we have to respond to these folks, just not simply saying they're marginal voices but respond to them as the threat to the democracy it seems to be. coming up in 2016, a leading health group recommended baby aspirin, recommending bayer. bayer all the time, bayer, bayer, bayer. >> i would have bayer pan pancakes -- no, shaped like a bear. go ahead. >> we'll talk about that development next on "morning joe." somebody in there? [ scream ] micheal myers is still alive. tonight, our family will kill him. i want to take his mask off and see the life leave his eyes. 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(whines) ♪♪ ♪ ohh ohh ♪ ♪♪ some big health news to talk about this morning. a u.s. task force is recommending that doctors not prescribe. >> now, they tell me. >> -- low dose aspirin to prevent heart attack or stroke. how many years have we been doing this? the new evidence suggests there's a high risk of serious side effects that outweigh the benefits. bayer has made a lot of money on this. >> yes, i lot of money. and low-fat stuff -- >> the updated guidance says that adults in their 40s and 50s should only take aspirin if their doctors determine they're at a higher risk of heart disease. taking a low-lows daily aspirin has been long recommended for heart health. and bayer has been the one that -- this is -- >> you know, mike, it seems like everything that -- >> curious. >> -- we grew up knowing about diet, health. taking this aspirin which, i guess, isn't good for your stomach and digestive tract if you do it every day. so much has been wrong. for instance, remember the food pyramid that came out in the early '60s. you'd do your best to be low-fat so people would buy the synthetic products that have very little fat buttons of other things that -- you know. some people were load up on carbs for 30 years and staying away from fat. staying away from protein. and we learned five, ten years ago, it's just the exact opposite. that those carbs, they do come at a tremendous cost. and we have a massive obesity crisis now. >> you know, joe, i have long had a practice of lying to my physician when i go for my physical. have you been taking your daily aspirin. yeah, religiously. chicken and fish. that's it. and i park my car beneath the golden arches and ignored all of that, because things changed like that. >> oh, my god. okay. also the retail pharmacy walgreens is set to close at five, five stores in san francisco due to rampant shoplifting and organized crime, according to a report from insider, locations in the city have struggled with shoplifting for years. ten locations have been closed since -- have been closed in the city since 2019. last october, the "san francisco chronicle" reported one location closed down due to a loss up to $1,000 in stolen merchandise a day. and i did notice, i think it was cvs, recently, a couple i went to in d.c. and major cities that everything is locked now. like you can't even get toothpaste without asking it to be unlocked. >> it's insane. >> it makes me feel bad that things are so bad for people this is happening. >> no, it's not incredibly sad. >> yes, it is. >> no, no, no, this has been happening for some time. if you look at, eddie glaude, the video, people bring garbage bags in retail stores in san francisco, and they load them up. and they walk out and people just stare at them. security guards just stare at them. i feel really badly, rachel, our friend. she went to lululemon store in san francisco. i feel bad for people that came in and swiped about 3,000, $4,000 worth of lululemon goods and put them inside their bags. especially been hearing about it in san francisco. i've seen it in san francisco. friends have seen it in san francisco. and up and down on the west coast. you have walgreens. you have cvs, you have walgreens, other stores having to shut down at 5:00, because people are just going in and stealing stuff and walking out the front door. never seen anything like it before. >> right, joe, remember what you say all the time. two things can be true at once. criminal, and exactly what we're doing, economic effects of covid. folks are trying to make ends meet. two things can be true at once. we want to condemn the organized effort that's leading to walgreens shutting down five stores in the san francisco area. and the very thing you just described. but we also want to be open and charitable and mindful. folks are hurt even as 90-year-old men are supplying into space. >> eddie just set up the next story. now, coming up, jeff bezos, william shatner and an astronaut, lifting you have to to the countdown lifting straight ahead. and the new podcast of joe is coming up. joe talking about the historic ability democrats have to dominate american politics, for the next generation, if they're willing to do the right thing and pay the price. >> listen to it. it will reverse your male pat pattern baldness. e pattern baldness as someone who resembles someone else... i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ what's the #1 retinol brand used most by dermatologists? 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will launch into space this morning on that blue origin rocket. >> it looks a little bit different. >> becoming the oldest person to touch space. >> that's very exciting. let's right now bring in to talk more about the 90-year-old captain kirk's historic flight is nbc news correspondent tom costello. live in west texas. tom, set the scene for us. in beautiful van horn, texas, where my friends and i used to go to the van horn truck stop. how do i remember that? because it may be the only thing between dallas and san -- >> yeah. >> between san antonio and el paso. nothing else out there. >> yeah. and that's about all there is out here is a truck stop. it's a pretty small footprint here in west texas. joe, you and i are about the aim aim age, and "star trek" what was a bfd for us when we were kids, captain kirk and romulus, it was a big thing. to see captain kirk take off later, 10:00 a.m. eastern time is the launch. 9:00 a.m. central time. right now, all systems are go. >> reporter: if jeff bezos and his blue origin team had hoped to generate even more buzz than their successful first flight, who better for that mission than the man who played the iconic captain kirk. >> that will give us warp speed. >> reporter: if there's anything special you want to do kind of play tribute to all of those years playing captain kirk. >> the thing i really want to do? come back down. >> reporter: 90-year-old william shatner, and blue origin executive and two who paid. >> i can't think of a better ambassador. >> reporter: last night, we got our first glimpse ever of the astronaut village where guests who pay to fly cool their jets including a kitchen, a common line bar and aspirations lined up. the astronauts stay in these air stream suites. inside, it's small but luxurious for the big spenders who stay here. bezos is jockeying for a new position in the space tourism business, and richard branson's virgin galactic which made its first suborbital flight in july. it's for high rollers only though branson and bezos hope to make it more widely available in the future. >> ultimately, the price will come down to the level where an awful lot of people will be able to do it. >> reporter: here in west texas high winds postponed the launch day but did nothing to dampen the spirits of the four astronauts to-be who spent time training for the sense of weightlessness. >> are you ready? >> it's like jumping out of the capsule. >> reporter: 55 years after his debut on "star trek," shatner and the others now head to the edge of their frontal frontier, in real life. you got to hand it to jeff bezos and company. masterful marketing, right. on the second flight, how do you beat the first one? you invite captain kirk to come along. my question who's next? the dalai lama? how do you upstage captain circumstance. >> so true. >> it's a very good question. i wanted to ask you, tom, when we were reading the story on this an hour or two ago, we saw there's only one astronaut in there and three tourists. >> reporter: yeah. >> and willie and i were talking back and forth about, cape fear has one pilot to bounce around the islands of new england. a lot of people don't even go on a short flight with just one pilot. what sort of safety protocols do they have in space, if something were to happen, god forbid, to the one astronaut that's actually on board. >> reporter: okay. but here's the deal, nobody is controlling this thing inside the space ship, right? this is all remote control from the ground. god forbid there's an accident at liftoff, they could jettison from the booster rocket. and they've got multiple redundant parachutes to come back to earth. they're up in space a few minutes. three or four minutes of weightlessness, that's all. while this is only the second crewed-vehicle, manned vehicle, if you will, it's actually had 17 flights. it's got a pretty good track record, most of those without humans on board. >> hey, tom, we've been remarking how good william shatner looking at 90 years old watching him move around in answering your questions. what are the qualifications? what kind of checklist do you go to qualify? obviously we're not talking nasa astronauts to go through that rigorous process to be up there for as long as they are. but what do you have to go through to step on that ship today? >> reporter: they essentially go through how to get in and out of their seats in the spaceship. how to do that easily. you're kind of reclining and you've got a five-point harness. you want to get in and out quickly to enjoy your three to four minutes of weightlessness. they go through that. practicing 50 times. shatner is 90. i'm just astonished what great shape he's in. how great he looks. you have a conversation with him, honestly, it's like he's 50 years younger. he is really still very much -- he's very sharp, thoughtful, funny, very concerned about the environment, you know. this is an unusual 90-year-old who is strapping in. by the way, he admits he's nervous about this. i said, wait a minute, you battled klingons and kahn, how you can be nervous. he said this is real this time. >> yes it is, tom costello, thank you so much. we'll be hearing today's launch live here on msnbc as it happens. from space travel to domestic air travel after days of delays and cancellations, southwest airlines is inching back to new normal operations. joining us from ft. lauderdale international airport, nbc news correspondent kerry sanders. kerry, how is it going now? >> reporter: well, right at this airport at ft. lauderdale all of southwest flights are scheduled to take off on time today which is certainly a step in the right direction. when you take a look at flightaware.com, across the system, there are about 120 flights delayed, 15 cancelled. when you look at what's been going on, that say market increase, a better mood than what passengers have had to endure for almost a week now. this morning, southwest's ceo says most of their crews are now finally in position to resume normal flight operations. this after a nightmarish holiday weekend for customers wondering what went wrong. >> it was just one thing after another. after another. >> reporter: southwest blames bad weather in florida as the critical trigger to the massive disruptions. what happened to southwest, more acute than impacts at other airlines. >> because they don't have hubs with extra planes laying around that are one flight away if there is a cancellation, the cascading effects of any operational inefficiencies simply get out of control. >> reporter: the pilots union said the more than 2400 cancelled flights had nothing to do with pilots protesting the federal vaccine mandate which the airline said it would be following shortly before the trouble began. southwest's ceo defending the mandate. >> objective here, obviously, is to improve health and safety. not for people to lose their job. that's not what was at issue with southwest. over the weekend. >> reporter: still, on tuesday, continued problems. more 90 cancellations and 1200-plus delays. that's over 35% of the airline's scheduled flights. since the cancellations began, southwest has repeatedly apologized, telling nbc news they're offering all affected customers the option to rebook without cost. >> my flight was cancelled. >> reporter: but nurse sarah bowman said it's too little too late. sarah rented a car and drove her family with a hotel stay from orlando to nashville. >> average family can't just spend $2,000 unexpectedly to get home. that's what i had to do and that's what thousands of other people had to do also. >> reporter: southwest customers who had those cancelled flights are due refunds. and it's important federal laws says refunds. you don't have to accept a voucher. also southwest airlines says they're going to work with people, like we saw sarah there who incurred costs like rental cars and hotel bills assuming it can be documented. anybody who had to do that should get their paperwork in order. finally, joe, southwest says they're going to try to do better because they know we're heading into a holiday season here. >> so, kerry, help me out here. i talked to southwest pilots who swear it has nothing to do with the vaccine mandate. other people are insisting that it does. we're now having politicians in both parties getting in the middle of this battle, saying it's vaccine mandates. while i think democrats are saying it's not. you even, of course, have the ceo insisting it's not. what's your best working theory on how the vaccine mandates have played into these delays, based on everything that you have looked at in your reporting? >> reporter: joe, it took a lot of energy on this was a result or a reflection of the vaccine mandates especially when republican senator ted cruz tweeted that out. the best way to look at this is to consider the airline union is the one that says this does not have anything to do with those vaccine mandates and that people are connecting dots that do not need to be connected here. when we heard the expert there from the travel industry explain that -- and if you're a traveler on southwest, you understand this, like when you go on a dealt tall airline, hub and spoke. go to an atlanta interchange and out. all of the planes there and move out. southwest doesn't use that hub and spoke system. so if you're going, say, ft. lauderdale to nashville and then out, say, to oakland, if you get to nashville and there is not a backup, there's no hub and spoke there. it's just like you're moving on. bottom line is, i'm going back to the union here. if the union is not screaming this has something to do with vaccine mandates. it just appears that people have connected dots again that maybe are not there. >> kerry, thank you so much as always. we greatly appreciate your reporting and love seeing you on the show. we greatly appreciate it. willie. so, joe, there are questions this morning on what the nfl knew surrounding the resignation of jon gruden after the los angeles raiders head coach -- las vegas raiders, i should say, nbc news steve patterson has more. >> reporter: on the heels of a stunning announcement -- >> jon gruden out as las vegas raiders head coach. >> reporter: this morning, reaction to jon gruden's swift resignation as head coach of the raiders reaching a fever pitch. >> jon gruden's career is over. it's over. >> reporter: after a "the new york times" report detailed emails he wrote over the course of nearly a decade that included sexist, racist and homophobic language aimed at various targets ranging from players to legal officials. the nfl slamming gruden's comments as appalling. gruden has denied he's racist and in a statement, the 58-year-old apologized writing in part, i never meant to hurt anyone. >> we need to allow people to grow and change, you know. but those opinions, you know, don't have a place in the game. >> reporter: the emails confirmed by the nfl but not reviewed by nbc news were discovered during an nfl workplace misconduct investigation into the washington football team. while gruden was an analyst for espn. just last week, it was learned that gruden used a racist trope to describe nfl players chief demaurice smith writing dumboris has lifted michelin tires. and it simply confirms the way people characterize you behind your back. many are calling for transparency saying gruden's emails account for a gruden's emails account for a fraction that were part of an investigation not focused on him. >> you've got 650,000 emails. you've got no written report. they're going to continue to be calls for the nfl to apply full transparency. >> on the field and off it. >> i think they have to address their skill positions. >> gruden became a bankable star. >> welcome to hooters, your fantasy football headquarters. >> now that star has fallen, leaving a trail of questions over the direction of the league he leaves behind. >> steve patterson reporting there. joe, jon gruden was the head coach of the las vegas raiders, but actually, these emails came from an investigation of washington's football team that took about a year or so looking into accusations of sexual harassment in that workplace. these emails between jon gruden and then team president in washington, george allen, that's why we know about these, which leaves open the question, there are nearly 650,000 emails from this investigation. what else is in there, and why doesn't the nfl want it getting out? >> well, and that's really a great question, willie. i saw yesterday a lot of people talking about this, nobody defending what gruden said, nobody suggesting that he shouldn't have been fired immediately. i think everybody agreeing with aaron rodgers, there's just no place for that in the nfl or somebody with that mind-set on a variety of issues, but everybody would then follow that up with, okay, we know gruden's a bad apple. there was a suggestion that dan snyder in washington was being protected. people want to see his emails. so i think they need a housecleaning. i think they need full transparency, and unless there's good reason for certain emails to be redacted and not to be allowed out, there does need to be full transparency so you don't just have one coach that is facing this intense heat and spotlight and losing his job, but perhaps others if they -- if they've got the same terrible regressive mind-set. >> yeah, and joe, the redskins were fined $10 million. part of the deal is the emails would not be disclosed. the reason we saw gruden's emails is because the nfl got those to the las vegas raiders organization, and then they became public. what happened inside the washington organization with those emails remains a locked box that the nfl says it is not going to open. >> so washington fans, nfl fans don't know if those emails exist in washington as well among the owner, among coaches, among other people in the front office. that's ridiculous. they can't unilaterally make that decision. it needs to be overturned. the fans have a right to know. hospitals across the country are facing a shortage of nurses due to the pandemic and more than a half a million more registered nurses expect to retire in the next year. universities nationwide are seeing an increase in potential nursing student applications, so much so that thousands of qualified applications to nursing programs are being turned away due to a lack of teachers. our next guests are celebrating the emergency room nurses who have been among the front line heroes of the pandemic. renowned best selling writer james patterson teamed up with retired army first sergeant matt eversman for the new book, "e.r. nurses: true stories from america's greatest unsung heroes". and james and matt join us now. james and matt, i would ask you both why you wrote the book but i understand completely the inspiration. >> yeah. >> so i guess maybe tell us a little bit about who -- >> you know, we were watching the show earlier, they should have sent an emergency room nurse up with captain kirk because they're warriors. i'm not kidding, seriously, for a lot of reasons. >> this is a good point. >> for a lot of reasons -- >> our mission was -- well, our mission was if you are a nurse, you would say that -- we wrote a book about veterans and as you know, when people come back from wars, they won't talk about it. it's the same thing with emergency room nurses. they don't talk about it. matt who's a wonderful interviewer got them talking and the stories will blow your mind. they're unbelievable. >> well, one of the chapters spotlights a nurse named jennifer, and you recount a moment she had with a patient dying of covid-19. the woman stares at us, tears running down her face while we work to get her comfortable as possible. the moment is heartbreaking and chaotic. the doctors and medical staff are talking openly about the fact that she is going to die. the woman can still hear us. she's aware and absolutely terrified. i can see it in her eyes. what she's right now are strangers dressed in gowns, masks and face shields. we're all gowned up in protective gear that can't be removed while we're with a patient. most people don't realize that this whole covid pandemic has caused a major shift in medical treatment. the human touch is almost gone. it hurts my soul that this woman is going through this without her family. i've never shed a tear in front of a patient before, but this time i can't help myself. the last thing this woman sees is my masked face. she's going to need to be intubated. when everything is done, i take a step back. i may be scared, but i'm still here. i'm an er nurse. matt, these are the stories that need to be told. these people are facing so much inexplicable pain and agony. >> mika, absolutely -- >> and she insists on holding that woman's hand. >> yeah, you know, the humanity of it all that these men and women in the emergency rooms, you know, give on a daily basis, 24/7, 365, you know, and the opportunity for us to introduce these heroes to the world is such an honor, and then you're right, they need to be told. we need to remember when everything -- these men and women exist. >> we've done a couple of podcasts, one where the moderator was an emergency room nurse, and he said he'd read the book over the weekend, and he said he was dramatically reminded of how much he loves being a nurse by reading the thing, and another woman, she had given the book to her mother. her mother read it and she came over to the house crying and she hugged her daughter, an emergency room nurse and said i had no idea what you do. had no idea. now i know you are a hero. and that's just moving stuff. moving stuff. >> guys, what a great idea for a book. and good on you for both lending your names on something like this and shedding a light on the work er nurses do. reading the passages in your book, you're struck by how much er nurses, yes, they're health care professionals but in some ways they become priests or rabbis or imams at these existential moments of what does life mean and you're holding the hand of somebody at the end of of his or her life and you're guiding them to the end. you get choked up just thinking about it. >> yeah. >> it's so powerful, and i will say, you know, for me to hear it the first time and then to read what jim has done about it, and then to hear you realize that it all comes together. it's the most important moment literally that these men and women do for us, and i think it's a great book. >> and the stories are just so -- one, a 2-year-old has been shot in the chest, and they think he's going to die for sure, and about seven days later this emergency room nurse, she sees him in another part of the hospital and he's running down the hallway, running down the hallway in a super man outfit. it's like there's the upside of it, the positive, we saved somebody. >> just amazing. >> the new book is "e.r. nurses: true stories from america's greatest unsung heroes." thank you so much for doing this, james patterson, and matt eversman, thank you both very much. >> and mike barnicle. >> birthday boy. >> we want to make sure you don't do anything that would require james patterson to call an er doctor to follow you around on your 49th birthday. >> you know, listening to that segment i was reminded we spent a lot of time talking about william shatner, he's a celebrity. god bless him, i hope he's safe, i hope that trip is wonderful. but each and every day, i pass, you pass, everyone passes thousands of anonymous ptsd victims. they are nurses. one of my daughters is a nurse. my daughter-in-law is a nurse practitioner, and they have been forced over the past 18 months to help people to the end of their lives and to say good-bye to their loved ones over an iphone, and we should honor them, recognize them as this book does, as we have just done in this segment, but there are too many anonymous heroes out there in america that we don't pay enough attention to. >> amen. >> that does it for us this morning, happy birthday, mike. thank you so much. >> happy birthday, mike. >> and stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle live from our nation's capital, washington, d.c., it is wednesday, october 13th. let's get smarter with all the facts you need to know right now. this morning we are literally in countdown mode, exactly one hour from now, the new shepherd rocket from jeff

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