that's been the republican line. now, an actual default would not only hurt president biden it would rattle wall street and risk spreading broader turmoil in the u.s. economy during a sensitive time in this recovery that we're all living through. and i mention that because that may be why all the pressure just started really getting to republican leaders like mitch mcconnell. he is making news tonight as the first to apparently blink in this standoff. i'm going to show you exactly what's happening and some of the clues as to why. the context is republicans had said that democrats would have to tackle the debt all on their own or face this potentially cataclysmic default. tonight, mcconnell backing down partly saying he will at least delay all of this until december. mcconnell, of course, brags that he's the grim reaper, but apparently he thought about this and thought better of killing the u.s. credit rating, and move came pretty quickly today. the times reporting it shows mcconnell bowing to the immediate threat of a federal default and reflects the nervousness on the part of republicans. a market shift from his recent talk. >> let me be crystal clear about this. republicans are united in opposition to raising the debt ceiling. we will not support legislation that raises the debt limit. they will not get senate republicans help with raising the debt limit. fact check, not true. anymore. democrats will get republican help for at least this temporary raise that's being floated. the whole episode is actually revealing. politically mcconnell wants big fights with biden to look tough for his base, acting like he wants the confrontations, he wants the smoke. when it gets hot, he bails. mcconnell doesn't want a fight he would lose with a financial target on his back. this kind of fronts is common for fake tough guys as 21 savage explained, say you want smoke but the fire come with it. money on your head, we'll come get it. while wall street was coming for mitch, he wasn't ready for the fire that comes with the smoke. i'm joined by levy casey of the "washington post," and cornell belcher, msnbc analyst. cornell, was it too hot for mitch mcconnell, could he not handle the fire? >> well, mitch is the king of the smoke, but i will give you -- i will say this, i think there's a different variable in here. i think when the president and dems start talking about getting rid of the filibuster, because they're going a step too far, i think the calculation starts to turn it and mitch and republicans had to blink on this, but i also say this, i think the more extreme mitch mcconnell and the republicans in both the house and the senate behave, the more likely they are that filibuster is going to go away, and i think a lot of people want the filibuster to go away. i think we saw some good news in that when quite frankly now joe biden is at least talking about it and considering it. i tell you this, if joe biden says the filibuster needs to go away, i think it's going to be hard for the senate republicans, even manchin to hold out when republicans are doing these sort of extreme acts of foolishness. >> cornell, you're talking about the heat, and then the mechanism to apply that pressure and heat. we had a former schumer aide "the beat" last night, talking act you could use the widespread pressure here on trying to get the republicans out of the way so you could raise the debt ceiling, which is something the united states has to do regardless, and use that to reform the filibuster to make an exception. one exception could lead to two, could lead to three, and as you say, president biden hitting that last night. that brings in another question on the economy, which is cornell, if they can find possible exceptions to this filibuster rule for bankers rights, what about for voting rights, what about for human rights? >> i think that's the thing, right. and it's all bs anyway because you know, just, you know, republicans just eliminated the filibuster for the senate. they change the rules all the time. democrats are going to have a hard time looking at especially communities of color and going back and saying you know what, we'll remove the filibuster to protect banking, you know, our bankers and our credit ratings but won't remove the filibuster to protect voting rights and franchise. i think that's not -- i don't think that's sustainable quite frankly. i think if they moved it, do away with the filibuster around this, it's going to be hard to tell a lot of americans, especially americans of color who put them in power that i'm not going to do it to protect your franchise. >> appreciate your point there, and you bringing that up, and it really does speak to some of the problems in the way the government works, and again, we're just about about whether there's an up or down vote. everyone in the country voted in 2020. they put in their new representatives. georgia went blue from red, and so whether it's voting rights or these other issues, the question is whether there's going to be a vote. if, libby, there is a vote in a democracy and people don't vote to pass the voting rights bill, fine. i'm not saying where it all lands, the notion that this minority can choke hold the dealt to voting rights to other issues, it does make you question whether we're living in that democracy or not. senator bernie sanders said some really interesting stuff today. i want to get to that, first, before i go there, libby, your view on all of the above in the debt standing? >> well, democrats cannot go home, and say, look, we couldn't get this done because of the filibuster. i was talking to an audience of my mother today, a very educated voter saying what is up with the filibuster, what is this thing. there is so much frustration from voters on both sides of the aisle from the gridlock in washington. the old idea of collegiality and decorum in the senate, mitch mcconnell has not played by the old fashioned rules for a long time. democrats have to decide how they're going to play. the problem is it's not just president biden who needs to be flexible on the filibuster, it's joe manchin and senator sinema, we don't have a sense they're willing to bend on this. you talk about the pressure on republicans and democrats to deal with the debt ceiling, the white house hosted some of the top ceos in the country to talk about how terrible and devastating and cataclysmic not dealing with this would be. they touted a letter signed by former defense secretaries on both sides of the aisle, one person who signed it, dick cheney, the former vice president, we cannot even approach the debt ceiling. ten years ago, i covered when they tiptoed up to it, and tried to do this under president obama and there were problems with the credit rating, issues already unfolding. it's not the kind of thing they can save until midnight. they've got to get this dealt with in advance, which is why there's so much conversation and focus on it right now. >> what does your mom think we should do about the filibuster? >> i mean, you know, speaking for alice casey, she, you know, wants to see action in washington. she wants to see the democrats who control all three bodies right now pass some things. as a reporter, i have to, you know, put my mom's opinions on the shelf there, but she's an example of someone who wants to see action and is frustrated by someone like joe manchin, someone like kyrsten sinema because democrats control all of these bodies, and so republicans, i will say, are staying remarkably lock step on this issue of the debt ceiling. we're not seeing wiggles from even the moderates. we're not seeing wiggles about maybe i'll come other and help democrats deal with this issue. they are staying in lock step. we're focused on tension and disagreement in the democratic party. even though mitch mcconnell is offering this temporary move forward, he's saying maybe we can talk act dealing with this, pushing it two months ahead, it still is in democrats' hands to resolve this h. republicans are not helping at all, and democrats are frustrated because not only does this mean they have to get closer to this cataclysmic cliff but it's also distracting the focus on the two big bills they are trying to pass, this major infrastructure bill and the build back better bill, the bill that could overhaul the social systems of america. they can't work on that and focus on that if we're all talking about this. >> yeah. all fair points, and shout out to your mom. i mentioned senator sanders here going at his own colleagues, the democratic holdouts. let's show a little bit of what he said about manchin and sinema. >> but the time is long overdue for him to tell us with specificity, not generalities, we're beyond generalities, with specificity what he wants and what he does not want. and to explain that to the people of west virginia and america. senator's position has been that she doesn't quote unquote negotiate publicly. i don't know what that means. we don't know where she's coming from. tell us what you want. >> tell them what you want, cornell. >> you know who doesn't want the smoke in the end, i think the smoke would be too much for joe manchin and senator sinema, quite frankly. imagine this scenario. imagine they have to go home in the end and they couldn't in fact move on build back better or infrastructure, all the things you know a state like west virginia wants and needs and all of these things that the middle class families of arizona want and need, and then you could point to them and say, you know what, senator sinema, none of that happened because of you. right. that's an awful lot of smoke. i have to think, ari, that's more smoke than either one of those two can put up with. >> at this point, cornell, i don't know what we've talked more about tonight, the 21 savage view of smoke, the confrontation or libby casey's mom who's clearly interested in civics and news. at this point, it's a toss up. i did want to show another point because again, there's been a lot happening on the senate side. senator hirono, not impressed with mitch backing down because although it does buy time, she still feels the overall problem is people who ran up the bills and won't pay for them and are taking everyone hostage, and distracting from real priorities. everyone breathed a sigh of relief for the reasons stated in our coverage about this teetering out of a, you know, a real immediate show down, she says that buying time is still in her words bs. take a look. >> what's my reaction to his so-called offer, just what i said, it's bs. he's heartless, he could give a rip. he should stop playing games, get out of the way so that the 50 democrats can avoid what would be an economic catastrophe. >> libby. >> so one of the complaints that democrats have over what mcconnell is doing is they say this will take too much time. this will eat up too much time. mcconnell is calling their bluff, if we kick the can down the road by two months you have plenty of time but that's not addressing the fundamental problem of whether or not republicans are going to get on board and pay the bills that they helped rack up over these last years. >> all important points, libby casey, cornell belcher, thanks to both of you. i want to tell people what we have coming up. there are reports that trump aides will defy probe subpoenas at donald trump's direction. neil is going to get into it, including why this could risk some going to jail. matt gaetz speaking out along with his friendship with a republican convicted of sex trafficking, why is gaetz speaking out. we have that update later in the hour. also a new approach to addressing vaccine hesitancy from an unlikely source that includes some laughter which we always welcome. we have that later this hour as well. stay with us, you're watching "the beat" with ari melber. bear as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i 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you need. sorry? limu, you're an animal! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ it's another day. and anything could happen. it could be the day you welcome 1,200 guests and all their devices. or it could be the day there's a cyberthreat. only comcast business' secure network solutions give you the power of sd-wan and advanced security integrated on our activecore platform so you can control your network from anywhere, anytime. it's network management redefined. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. comcast business powering possibilities. the january 6th riot probe is going full steam ahead with consequences, preparing for the show down with donald trump, a legal deadline looms. trump must act quickly even if wants to try to block the archives from releasing his records. his subpoena aides are facing a deadline to comply and turn over their evidence and records. there are signs they won't cooperate. one aide in particular who hasn't even turned up. you may remember the name from all the talk of twitter over the last four years. this is an aide named dan scavino. technically he was elevated to deputy white house chief of staff. he dealt with twitter and the internet, and now has gone missing entirely. the house committee says they can't physically serve him under the rules with a legal subpoena because they can't even find him. the committee says they're also preparing for trump and his aides to be defiant. trump is not backing down. he recently told a podcast how the real insurrection was the election. >> the insurrection took place on november 3rd, when they rigged the election, the big insurrection, the crime of the century. that took place on november 3rd and not on january 6th. >> well, what can you say, it's word play. it won't beat subpoenas. this goes beyond just who's the loser of the election, or the sore loser of the election but why donald trump has reasons to worry. people around him are talking. the house committee, starting interviews, and one of the first is trump's number two at the d. o.j. another obscure person who vaulted into, you know, the sloppy, and he had a closed door interview on friday. what did he say, and what happens to people who defy subpoenas. we have one of the foremost legal experts in the nation, live in 60 seconds neal katyal. l ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm joined by former acting u.s. solicitor general neal katyal with these developments coming out of the riot probe. your thoughts, sir? >> well, i think republicans have been banking on stalling out this investigation but the congressional committee investigating january 6th has called them on it, and ari, you know, if you behave like a dodgy witness, expect to get subpoenaed like one, and that's what they have done with the investigation. it makes a lot of sense. it's of course unusual for the house to subpoena itself. i'm not sure it's ever been done to its own employees. that's for a simple reason. the house employees generally ordinary comply when they're faced with a request, and here they're not, and not just the house, as you just said, the white house officials like dan scavino on the land acting like fugitives from justice, because they're so afraid to have to tell the truth under oath. and so, you know, these subpoenas are definitely unprecedented, but january 6th was unprecedented. we had an armed attack on our capitol and a president who kind of stood by and didn't do anything. >> and i want to make sure people understand that there are plenty of avenues to debate the scope and the approach of evidence requests and subpoenas. that's, you know, standard lawyering. my debate or protest aspects of that, that's valid. i don't at all suggest that, say, the former staff, mark meadows or others don't have the right to avail themselves of that, but what they're doing as former officers of the government it's all the more outstanding, is openly, defying this. that has consequences in a different proceeding but the context of lawful request to cooperate involving executive branch officials you had a clinton case where susan mcdougal famously refused to testify, and defiantly, rather than saying here's a reason, let's debate it, just i'm not going to cooperate at all. i'm going to hear from some of the coverage, refuse to testify, and mcdougal cited for contempt, that's the criminal contempt we hear about, given until a deadline to cooperate or go to jail, and she did go to jail. should that kind of potential precedent weigh on the minds of any of these trump officials or is it apples and oranges? >> 100%. not apples and oranges at all. legally, if they defy these subpoenas which have the immense gravity of the committee, and massive investigative need behind them, they're looking at contempt, civil and criminal. ari, there's a more important point which is just what makes good prudent sense. when i was in the government, whenever we had a request for information, we tried to get it. we didn't want to be accused of hiding anything, and that was for, you know, minor accusations or whatever. we always wanted to try and open our books and be as forthcoming as possible. here you've got one of the most serious, you know, investigations this country has ever faced and these people are running, you know, afraid to even turn over app single document. that's not a good look for republicans or any former government official. >> and just briefly when people say, oh, trump has instructed them to do this or that, they don't work for him anymore. they don't work for the government anymore. this is ultimately their call and they will face the legal exposure themselves, right? >> correct. it's their documents or the archives documents, and ultimately the american people's. i mean, when you work as a government employee, generally that stuff gets turned over. sometimes there's narrow privilege reasons, but, you know, none of that seems to apply here. >> yeah, i do have to get into something else, and it's fun. it involves neal katyal going full katyal, which i don't know if that's an expression before tonight, but now it is. because we got ahold of your cameo on this show time "billions," it looks at the southern district and other things that legal nerds care about. let's take a look at your cameo. >> well, mr. wagner, we find ourselves across the table once again. only this time you don't have your master to hide behind. i'm afraid that's not going to be much help. >> let's do this. >> mr. wagner, please, let me represent your interests here, it's my job. >> thankfully, and respectful, you're the best lawyer in the world, but zip it, you'll get paid either way. >> what was it like and were you just playing yourself or did you act? >> well, wags, is certainly an interesting client, and it was such a privilege. i love the show, and the writing. i tried to be myself as much as possible, which is intimidating when you have damian lewis and paul giamati in the room. they cared so much about authenticity. behind me i have the quills. every time you argue a case in the supreme court, they give you a quill. i have 44 of them in there. the set designers wanted to recreate that, and got the same feathers that the supreme court passes out and put that in the center of the room as you saw a moment ago. this is a really seriously great show with people who really take themselves incredibly seriously, and it was a real privilege. >> that's great, and i didn't realize that. 44 but who's counting. that's my follow up question. most lawyers you go to law school, you go research, you litigate, you go to trial. the vast majority of lawyers never do a single supreme court argument. i certainly never got near doing that. i imagine it's nerve racking. where would you rank the difficulty of your acting versus being before the actual supreme court. >> it was super hard to do this, and just intimidating, but on the other hand you get do overs, you have to do the thing repeatedly from every camera angle. if you mess up it's different. in this show, a, you can tell me to zip it, and b if i mess up, it's on live tv. the do overs was a really nice next thing, and it was a real privilege to do. >> yeah, it is different as you say, with tape. you make a fair point. here we're, i think you know this h we're live right now, it's live tv, so get it right every time. >> i was going to say, next week i'm doing a supreme court argument, and it's live in person again for the first time in 18 months, and so i think all of us are looking forward to that. >> no kidding. there you go. another example of sort of the post or quasi post pandemic shifts, getting people back in the courtroom. i'm sure we'll catch up with you about that. neal katyal on more than one program as it were, thank you, and you can always go to msnbc.com/opening arguments, where we have past arguments, none of the show time, all of the msnbc. coming up on the program tonight, matt gaetz facing questions about the sex crime probe. he changed his position about some of this. we're going to explain and give you the break down. later, a new take on how to address vaccine hysteria, you can do it with a smile on your face, and before we're through, the big lebowski, remember the nihalists, what does it have to do with mitch mcconnell, we'll explain. es it have to do with mitch mcconnell, we'll explain. active gum repair toothpaste. 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[ bleep ] me. >> say you want about the tenants of national socialism. >> the big lebowski reminding everyone about that concept of nihilism, an extreme ethos that increasingly applies to many elected republicans who openly tout that they don't care about governing consequences from defying medical experts on covid, risks lives, to using their power in government to saying the government itself can end. >> shutting it down is not a big deal. shut the government down because the real world knows how to run without the government. we do not need the government. >> it's a long road from limited government to no government. that would be like no countries. and the concern about this creeping nihilism is not just coming from outsiders or headline writers or critics of the republican party, a long time gop operative warning about nothing matters republicanism, a world view where actions are just believed to not have any consequences and quote, truth is no different than lies. you take this all together, the big lebowski did it in a funny way. there are plenty of other touch stones in our culture or films that do it in a more serious way because they relate to the fact that nihilism, wanting things to burn, not caring act the effect of your actions or your power on other people is a big problem, and not only that, i say this part seriously after the lebowski fun, understanding who the nihilists are is critical to dealing with them. there was really an evactive scene in the "dark knight" on this point where batman is struggling to understand that while he had dealt with evil people, killers, joker was different because of his nihilism. something alfred tried to explain. >> some men aren't looking for anything logical like money. they can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. some men just want to watch the world burn. >> we're joined by stewart stevens, i mentioned these concerns come from people with pedigrees in the republican party. he has worked for five different republican presidential campaigns. he knows of what he speaks. he cares about conservative principles. as traditionally understood, and he's a guest tonight for a special conversation. thanks for being here. >> thank you, man. >> do some of these elected republicans have a nihilism problem? >> yeah, that might even be too complimentary. it's power for power's sake. you know, uch to look at it, when i started getting involved with the republican party, we actually said we were the party of ideas and that may or may not have been true but it was something that we could at least argue about. i mean, there was a series of principles, you could say the party stood for. character counts, personal responsibility, strong on russia, the deficit matters, none of those things, it's not that the party sort of drifted away from those, the way parties do sometimes. the party is actively against these things. it's the character doesn't count party, the pro putin party, the deficit doesn't mean anything party. i can't tell you what it believes. it's like a complete collapse. the only thing i can really compare it to is sort of the collapse of the communist party, what it said it believes, and what it actually did, if you look at something like chernobyl, the cognitive dissonance was so great that the whole thing just collapsed and that's what's happening to the republican party. it's really just collapsed as any sort of governing party. >> yeah, and part of what you're talking about is kind of an intellectual and civic decay. there's a robust tradition of government skepticism in this country for many good reasons. and there's a strain of that in conservativism, and libertarianism that i think is a part of a healthy debate. cynically giving up on the government entirely, and saying the government can never be a part of a solution, or the military could never be part of doing anything good or teachers could never go to public school and do anything good for our next generation. that gets quite extreme which is why we're talking about extremism. you have crunched many numbers in many polls because you're a strategist among other things, take a look at a really dramatic crashing among republicans of any trusting government whatsoever, in the reagan '80s, a majority of republicans said they broadly trust the government, and you see it crashing all the way down to being a really minority vanishing view today that any republicans trust the government to do much of anything. how do you address that? >> yeah, well, i mean, i think that's the perfect collapse of any idea of a party of ideas because if you are a member of a party and your party is in power, as republicans just were, and you don't trust government, what you're really saying is i don't trust my own party to govern because there are no ideas. there's nothing you can believe in. at the root of this was this contradiction in the reagan area, the most dangerous words were i'm here from the federal government to help. we thought it was funny but it also reflected this idea of the government can't really help. that is sort of a contradictory principle by which to govern the country if the government can't help. we sort of as a party never came to grips with that contradiction. and particularly for those for whom mostly at the lower economic scale government is proactively one of the most positive forces in their lives in a way to rise economically, to rise in life. and it's really a failure of ideas. trumpism is nothing but a failure of ideas, and the party i think has a long way to go until it can kind of become any sort of sane, morally center right party. i think it's probably a generation. . >> wow. and i have one minute left. what portion of this do you see as media related in terms of what the rank and file is hearing and believing? >> well, look, i mean, i think that there is a institutional propaganda network on the right that started with the death of fairness doctrine that allows people to live in an alternative universe. if there's a weather station that tells you the sky is green as fox news done. the sky is not green but it's reinforced in that alternative facts, as kellyanne conway said it. there are no alternative facts, there are only facts. i think that's why the republican party is increase increaseingly shrinking, why it's become a party of -- it's an anti-democratic party, an autocratic party because they don't believe in democracy. >> you put it starkly, and if somebody came into the middle of the conversation and heard the green part, that sounds fanciful, in fact, that would be less dangerous than a channel that says climate change doesn't exist, which is what fox and news max says, and that's literally what we're living through. you make it clear. appreciate you coming on. i hope you come back. >> thank you. developments in the sex crimes probe facing republican matt gaetz and his cooperating ally. new comments, that's next, right after this. new comments, that's next, right after this i felt gross. it was kind of a shock after i started cosentyx. four years clear. real people with psoriasis look and feel better with cosentyx. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections —some serious— and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms, or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. learn more at cosentyx.com. learn more at cosentyx.com. that was quick. and rewarding. i earn 3% cash back at drugstores with chase freedom unlimited. that means i earn on my bug spray and my sunscreen. you ready to go fishing? 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well, he was questioned about this, and here's what he said. >> i believe there may have been a time where greenberg swung by the office, but it certainly didn't have anything to do with any bad acts on my part. >> you guys still friends? >> no, when i became aware of some of greenberg's misdeeds, i deeply regretted my friendship with him, and on that note, i want to speak to my constituents. >> go ahead. >> because i do believe that it's fair for the people of northwest florida to judge me based on the associations that i've had. and i deeply regret my association with joel greenberg politically, socially, and otherwise. >> that is new. we have not seen gaetz be that contrite, whether the voters believe him or not or you believe him or not is to you. we haven't seen him hit that tone. why is he acting that way, we don't know. he did say it's fair to judge him on his associations, while also trying to disassociate himself from the association this is about with greenberg. we will keep tracking this story and legal developments for you. now turning to the pandemic, i will tell you this, we always like times when there is good news on the pandemic or at least good vibes on a story like this, and that brings us to one of our barack obama's favorite comedians, dave chappelle, and writing partner, neil brennan who once recounted talking to the obamas about their appreciation for chappelle. >> dave calls me and goes, hey, if universal reaches out to you, tell them we're writing a weed movie together. michelle comes over and goes, we were so upset when it went off the air. i go, how do you think i felt? all right. that's neil brennan for you, and beyond being his head writer, he does stand up. he has a broadway show that tackles everything from mental health to covid, which is actually why his work is on the news right now. brennan sounding off on our partisan covid wars, and you know, comics can be blunt and direct in ways that prove somewhat useful. we want to take in some of his points, you can hear them and think about how we all think about covid, for example. brennan roasting the ways that people put misinformation or their own scientific want to be guess work above real science from real researchers and actual doctors. >> i got a buddy who one of my friends is like, i just think they rushed the vaccine. i didn't know you were an epidemiologist, i thought you worked in telemarketing. another friend is like, yeah, i'm not take k it. i go why not. i just don't want to mess with my dna like that. i go, greg, i have met your family, i think you can go ahead and risk your dna. the dna to be honest is not that valuable. >> brennan roasting his supposed friend there to make a point. 70 million americans say they are holding out on getting the vaccine, and many cite their concerns about speed as a reason. now, he does the comedy, we'll do the news and a fact check here. this vaccine progress worked with full testing in a normal way for safety. it now has the complete standard fda approval, and the evidence shows it's safe after 2 billion people have taken it via over 6 billion shots. >> the vaccines are safe. they've given out 5 billion of them now. 5 billion. >> throughout the world? >> yeah. >> okay. >> that's a lot. we would have heard some bad stuff, and if you think it's a conspiracy, fine, but a year ago everybody thought it was a conspiracy that china had invented this virus. so it's like which conspiracy, basically people are going i'm going to ride with china. i'm going to ride with china. i'm going to ride with their virus. they have always been good to me, the chinese. let's kill 5 million people and the vaccines killed not, from what i can tell, none. >> the interview there is with the breakfast club, a radio show taking that wait and see approach. u.s. government has a long history of racism in medical policy including horrific experiments that involved an earlier version of the cdc. brennan telling the breakfast club he actually gets it when there is hesitance higher among certain groups. >> as a white person, it's not that controversial. >> explain. >> you saw the stat in new york city, the black vaccination rate is 23%? >> yes. >> so it became a thing and i think black people's approach is -- if a white person is an anti-vaxxer, you're a moron. if a black person is an anti vaccer, brother did his research and figured it out. >> he has jokes how people are dealing with the pandemic but good comedians tend to be equal opportunity offenders and i want to show who he says people should rely on citing their track record has information and science evolved about the now -- new pandemic. >> right now in the united states people should not be walking around with masks. >> you're sure of it? because people are listening really closely to this. >> right now, people should not -- there is no reason to be walking around with a mask. >> you may be protecting others but don't get a false sense of security. >> in light of this new evidence, cdc recommends in the task force recommends wearing cloth face coverings. >> there should be universal wearing of masks. >> i've been asked for a masking plan. everyone for the first 100 days of my administration to wear a mask. >> what has changed is the virus. the cdc hasn't changed. the cdc hasn't really flip-flopped at all. >> i'm sure you heard about this part of the debate. brendan saying some of the shifts, which did adjust often with new information. >> well, covid has been like -- it's a new thing so they're trying to -- they're trying to catch up to it but it sounds like, like somebody trying to get their story worked out. [ laughter ] >> all right. okay. what i said about masks, that was true when i said it like a dude that got caught cheating, right? no, now look, no, i did not say that. no, i did not say you needed to wear two masks. i said you need to wear an n 95. >> that's right. >> so but it does make people who don't want to do stuff, it gives them ammunition. >> brendan may sound like another american angry with fellow citizens that are anti science and sums it up by saying that some people haven't really advanced much in how we think about things since the 1600s when the catholic church was banning the theory about the earth revoling around the sun. >> science is people scoff at science. all these people would have been like burning people with torches in the middle ages. it's the same idea. like get them. people have opinions about facts. like, how the [ bleep ] did that happen where it used to be there were opinions and facts and then they became around the same amount of value. >> yeah. how did that happen indeed? we'll fit in a break. when we come back, one more thing you need to know from capitol hill today. ing you need capitol hill today like many people with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's disease, i was there. be right back. but my symptoms were keeping me from where i needed to be. so i talked to my doctor and learned humira is the #1 prescribed biologic for people with uc or crohn's disease. and humira helps people achieve remission that can last, so you can experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. learn how abbvie could help you save on humira. - oh, sister of mine. - mmm... - i got you this. - the new iphone 13 pro? - it's on verizon 5g - i can't believe you got me this! - yes, verizon is giving one to everyone when they trade in their old or damaged phone. - oh! so like every sister can get this? - yeah. - every aluminum siding installer? - why not? - every doula? - they would have to! every customer, new and old, can get iphone 13 pro on us. because everyone deserves better. - everyone! - horse trainers! - manicurists! - you get the new iphone! - we're alone. - i know. - what're we doing? - i don't know. 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[ sneezing ] needs, plop plop fizz fizz. alka seltzer plus cold relief. dissolves quickly. instantly ready to start working. so you can bounce back fast with alka-seltzer plus. now available for fast sinus relief. if you get a sense what is happening in washington on congress from the news, which is reasonable, some things are emphasized more than others. the filibuster, debt ceiling standoff and those are big, big deals. but congress has proven able to do more than one thing at a time. they hold hearings on other issues and before we go tonight, i want to show you a hearing you might have missed. senator durban and this is him talking to the whip, schumer's deputy about voter suppression and out of the blue thinking about the fraud its you get this durbin reference to the ninja turtles. >> you remember what happened in arizona, 5.7 spent on the ninja turtles going through the ballots and the net result was more votes for biden, fewer votes for trump. so this notion of voter fraud is a ruse is far as i'm concerned. there is no basis for it. >> the founding fathers say, calabunga, dude. those ninja turtles are the cyber ninjas, which is the real name of a real group that backed trump's fake audit in arizona, which did not do what republicans wanted. indeed, its count, which is irrelevant and has no legal significance but the count found biden had a larger margin of victory than originally thought. before we end everything tonight, i want to tell you if you happen to be in new york, something we are excited about for new york "beat" fans if you're out there, we're moderating an event with the noble prize winning economists and "new york times" writer and author paul this sunday october 17th. getting going around 7:00 p.m. and you can see the link on the screen if you want to join us in new york to learn more. go to the link in new york and you can meet me and paul as we talk about the future of the u.s. economy. i'll tell you rachel maddow is back with bernie sanders so keep it locked for that tonight and keep it locked now because "the reidout" with joy reid starts now. >> how are you doing? excited. very chill, very chill. we'll all be watching. have fun in new york city. good evening, everyone. happy wednesday. it's midweek. not the time of the week one would normally spend gambling, we hope and yet, we begin "the reidout" with a giant game of poker we're watching play out in realtime with very heavy stakes. there are now 12 days until the u.s. economy faces

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