piece of american paper currency, and that is quite a superpower, unlike any power than anyone else in the government has. including the president. secretaries of the treasury also have, the unique and huge we import empower, to invoke what the treasury calls, extraordinary measures. that is where the united states of america's tonight. treasury secretary janet yellen is already taking extraordinary measures, to try to delay the day and the hour, which the government of the u.s. will default on its debt. those extraordinary measures, include, suspending investments in certain federal workers pension funds, among other things. the exact day on which we will hit the debt limit, is unknown, because it literally depends, among other things, on exactly how much money, the federal government collects, each day, the daily cash flow, into the united states treasury, which is mostly tax revenue, fluctuates between, 50 billion dollars a day, and over 300 billion dollars a day. so, if janet yellen has a string of 300 billion dollar days, in the treasury, then, we might hit the debt limit on october 25th. instead of october 18th. and janet yellin as a string of 50 billion dollar days of the treasury, then we could hit the debt ceiling sooner than october 18th, which is currently the treasury secretary's target date. for when she expects, the united states of america, two for the first time minutes history, default on its debt. october 18th. is the day. secretary yellen estimates the treasury will run out of money. that's the day janet yellen expects the treasury to exhaust all of the treasuries extraordinary measures, so far janet yellen, is the only one in washington who has taken extraordinary measures, to avoid, the first defaults on americans debt, in history, mitch mcconnell, has taken the distressingly, ordinary measure, of opposing an increase. in the debt limit. and at the same time, he has taken the extraordinary measure, of actually imposing a 60 vote threshold, and chuck schumer in the democrats attempt to raise the debt ceiling, mitch mcconnell has given no reason why he is asking every republican senator to vote against allowing the democrats to have a simple majority vote on increasing the debt limit. new york times reports today, senator roy blunt, the republican of missouri said, 40 or 45 republicans would be willing to agree to allow a debt ceiling increase to come to evo, as long as, they did not have to cast a public ballot. in other words, 45 republican senators would be happy to allow the debt ceiling increase to come to a vote, if they weren't senators. senators have to vote publicly. that's the job. that is the thing that senator roy blunt is saying republican senators do not want to do, they don't want to vote publicly. democratic senator brian schatz of hawaii, is quoted by the new york times, in that same article, saying, american politics is going crazy, because one party has gone crazy. no republican senators tonight are complaining, about senator schatz calling them crazy. not that long ago, if the senator said the other party has gone crazy, the other party would be publicly expressing outrage at that senator, but, crazy, is the republican senate's brands now. and so democrats, are now realizing, that they may have to take extraordinary measures, to prevent the country from going into default, which would send the american economy into a depression, and throw the world economy into at least a recession. senator angus king, has never been in favor of changing the 60 vote threshold rule in the senate, but in that same new york times article, he said this. i have been very reluctant for nine years about modifying the filibuster rule, especially when it comes to policy, but this has nothing to do with policy. this is about keeping the united states and world out of what could be a severe recession. . and so, mitch mcconnell's extraordinary measure, of requiring a 60 vote threshold, just to allow the democrats, to have an actual votes, on the debt limit itself, could be the thing, that finally provokes the democrats in the senate, to all realize, that dealing with a party that has gone crazy, means that the 60 vote threshold rule, has to be eliminated, for something as important as the debt ceiling. and if democrats in the senate agree, to change that rule, because the debt ceiling is so important, then the conversation will continue. among democrats. about what else might be, as important, as preserving the full faith and credit of the united states of america. is preserving democracy itself, as important or even more important? then prove preserving the full faith and credit of the u.s.. the democrats will have to eliminate the 60 vote threshold. for voting rights legislation. by imposing the 60 vote threshold, on the debt ceiling votes, mitch mcconnell is vividly demonstrating, the other absurdity, of a 60 vote threshold for anything in the united states senate. senate democrats are still struggling to meet the 50 vote threshold, necessary to pass the tax in social policy portion, of the biden infrastructure package, for the reconciliation process of the senate. and once again today, senator kyrsten sinema, mocks the very concept, of public accountability. >> -- just wondering why you feel you don't have to say literally anything about this. the people who voted for you. people who didn't vote for you. everyone seems to be -- [inaudible] [inaudible] senator and you have any comment? or just silence? >> you haven't reached out to our office. >> senator do the people been protesting you have any effect on the way you're looking at this issue? all right thank you senator. be that was the entropy -- accountability. leading off our discussion tonight, is a former deputies chief of staff for senator harry reid. he's the author, of kill switch. the rise of the modern senate, and the crippling of american democracy. michelle goldberg is with, us she's a columnist for the new york times. and a staff writer for the new yorker and professor of journalism at columbia university, he is coauthor of, the matter of black lives. michelle, i'd like to begin with you tonight, and your reaction to that video, of senator sinema, you wrote, one of europe and pieces, about her current posture in the senate. in there she, is continuing, a completely, i don't know what's a call, defiance? of public accountability? is it an inability to comprehend? go ahead sorry. >> it looks to me like contempt for public accountability. what's significant is, you can sort of make an argument, that you're not accountable to the national press corps, if you're talking about your constituents. if you're talking to the people who put you in office. but what progressives, particularly progressives globalized to elect senator sinema to the senate in 2018 say. is that she won't meet with, them she won't talk with them. she doesn't do any sort of public events. in arizona, and so, i disapprove of the stunned people pulled the other day, when they followed her into the bathroom, but nobody has been able to communicate with her, as far as i, know in any way whatsoever, and she holds at this point, the fate of the biden presidency, the fate of the republic, in her hands. and what's so maddening, is not just that she has objections to the social spending package, not just that she's trying to leverage her powers as a swing vote, but that she won't even articulate what concessions she would accept, from progressives. >> the job garrett haake is trying to do, there is a job that has been done in the halls of the office building, as soon as they finished building that building. and every senator, is subject to that. most of them, have a very easy time, without including when they don't want to say anything. and they're used to being 100 senators, now there's maybe only 99. who know how to speak, and say nothing important at the same time. in those situations with reporters. there are a lot of options in that moments, other than, a completely denying that there's any reason to ever say anything public to the press. >> sure, it's an art form, or all their i teach journalism at columbia. we have conversations about, this people are able to give you, to fill up [inaudible] and give you absolutely no information. we know as journalist we know we are doing, it and they know they're doing it is part of the process. to try to get people to give you something of substance. but this stonewalling is bizarre, in addition to the fact that, it's very difficult to discern what the endgame is here. her approval ratings back home have plummeted, she has essentially, held this senate in a legislatively constipation position than it typically, is and we don't know what's going to change it. which is kind of bizarre. >> adam, as we are careening once again, through debt ceiling drama, which always, always in the past for me, always contains the lack of suspense about with the final outcome, was because of course, the congress was going to move the debt ceiling or suspend the debt ceiling, or deal with it in a way that would avoid default. but, when you have one party in the senate, as far as i can tell, except the label crazy, and seems to think, that that's the way to profit politically with trump voters, is the peer to be crazy and reckless and dangerously like donald, trump it's just it's tricky to find out what's happening next. >> it sure is. i was there in the senate in 2011, ten years ago and we had our last major debt ceiling crisis. where we came within a few days of defaulting, and we reached a deal at the last minute, but, what's different about now versus then, is that we were engaged in an active, open negotiation, in 2011, in the weeks leading up to the death. all right, now there is nothing going, on mitch mcconnell is not making any demands as he was back then, he just is basically sort of playing this game of chicken, and staring down the prospect of do you, fall and frankly what he's doing is, he's daring democrats, to reform the filibuster, as you laid out, and your opening. and i think, he's not necessarily operating from a position of strength here, in large part i think his stance is determined by the fact that he does not control his conference in the way that he would want, to and cannot prevent his fellow republicans from obstructing democrats, if they were to choose to use a reconciliation, pass really democrats know, that they're closing in, and a very narrow range of options, and probably, the best option available to them, is to pass some kind of narrow filibuster reform, because the other option, simply might not get them to where they need to get, to an order to raise the debt ceiling by the time the extraordinary measures run out. so i think, you think a lot about mcconnell, but he may not actually be operating from a position of strength. here that's one thing it very important for democrats to factor in their thinking. . one of the things why she's never really previews it where it about the death, ceiling is people like mitch mcconnell, mitch mcconnell is very, rich he got rich in a very old-fashioned way, he married the money. he has somewhere around the order of $30 million. maybe more. mitt romney, very very rich man. these are the kinds of people, who are hurt very badly by the kind of market crash, that she would have. if we were to crash into the debt ceiling. and so, my confidence in republican senators especially, own personal interest, in their own personal wealth, has always guided me, through the panic stages of the debt ceiling raisman ship. with that expectation. but this time, it does include this inner realm, that mitch mcconnell is teaching the democrats, that joe manchin, the angus king, the people who've been holding back on that notion, of adjusting the 60 vote threshold, he's teaching them, the best lesson yet this year. that's actually happening. on the senate floor at the moment. about why that 60 vote threshold needs to go. >> i mean, everything that's terrifying, everything that is dysfunctional in our politics can in some ways be attributed at this point to, filibuster. it's not only the debt ceiling, although, joe biden is still working to put together 50 votes for this reconciliation package. the only reason that he has to legislate, in this ridiculous way, that he has to cram his entire legislative agenda, to be put in one bill that can only be passed through this post regional script. is because republicans refused to allow, sort of regular order. and so, you can imagine, if they sort of broke this up and passed each piece individually. some republicans would have some incentive to, at least negotiate on things like paid leave. you know, instead we the only way to do anything is through this kind of absurd procedure trickery. likewise, with voting rights, there is a proposal that manchin himself has put together that cannot pass under the current configuration. and the current configuration is meant to even further intrench minority role. which will make it harder, harder to for democrats to win election light, a lone government. even if they get substantial electoral majorities. >> and, professor car, if you were to open up the 60 vote threshold for let's say, debt ceiling votes. well now you've done it. now, the senators, many for the post time in years have participated in a rule change. and, maybe it won't be quite so hard when you apply that same focus to say, preserving democracy. >> i mean, that's the hope. one of the things -- that from the outset of this discussion. has been in the defense of the filibuster, or the idea of it. the 50 threshold will force a minority party to do a horse trading that's posed to be interview to the -- but the opposite of that has been happening. and with the people who are holding out, and defending the filibuster, can't get that process to happen on their own. it means that the system is fatally flawed. when kyrsten sinema, when she wrote back in june, says that it was her reasoning in developing the filibuster, what was also happening is that now people have to be on the record for anything. there are absolved -- it there's really no incentive to change the system. in which they're benefiting. at the same time obstructing the oppositional parties of the presidential agenda. so that really has to have been. >> professor jelani -- thank you all very much for starting us off tonight, really appreciate. it >> thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up, mike pence is now trying to win the votes of the people who said, they want to kill mike pence on january six. that's next. six that's next. enough of your love babe♪ ♪girl, i don't know, i don't know,♪ ♪i don't know why i can't get♪ applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. ♪ ♪ your new pharmacy is here. and here. and here, too. it's here to help you save time and 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on january 6th. mike pence said, quote, i know the media wants to distract from the biden administration's failed agenda by focusing on one day in january. they want to use that one day to try and demean the character and intentions of 74 million americans. i'm now, i have repeatedly said on this program that 74 million people, who voted for donald trump, had nothing to do with january 6th and have repeatedly demonstrated that nothing can make them leave their sofas, to go out and protest the outcome of the presidential alone election. january 6th was not a about the 70 more million people who voted for xia donald trump, january six was about a few thousand criminals. who voted for donald trump and who wanted mike pence to join the ranks of criminals. that day, by violating the law. recent reporting by barr bob woodward and robert costa, shows that mike pence wanted to reverse the outcome of the presidential election, but he just couldn't find a legal way to do it. and unlike the criminals who attacked the capital, mike pence was not willing to break the law that day. but mike pence has firsthand information and testimony to offer, about donald trump and others who were trying to break the law that day. the house select committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capital might be adding mike pence to its list of subpoena witnesses, at some point. the first round of subpoenas, for documents, from four high-level trump officials ripe in this week, on thursday. the committee has subpoena documents from steve bannon, mark meadows, dust of you know, gash patel, and those documents must be delivered to the committee by thursday. so we will have the first sign of compliance or defiance, with the committee subpoenas this week. last week, the committee chairman, benny thompson, said this. >> we started questioning some of the volunteer witnesses today. and, will continue that process, we'll have other subpoenas scheduled to come out. those who don't to agree to come in and voluntarily, will be criminal referrals. and make that process work out. >> joining us now, daniel goldman, the former in house -- majority counsel for the first impeachment trial. of donald trump. he's also former assistant u.s. attorney, from the sovereign district of new york. -- daniel, thank you very much for joining me tonight. there's a lot in one benny thompson just said, including that reference to they've already started questioning some volunteer witnesses, that need to be subpoenaed. but let's go to subpoenas, and this week's documents subpoenas. thursday is the due date. if we do not see compliance on thursday, what happens? >> well, there are options that congress and the house can go to court to enforce the subpoenas, which we saw in the last congress. it takes inordinately long, perhaps longer than we have left in this congress to find its way to the courts. they can discuss with the witnesses, lawyers, some accommodation to have them give some documents but not all. but, i think it's all going to be academic, because i would expect donald trump to file a lawsuit -- to prevent the witnesses from providing the documents that are asked based on executive privilege. now, that is going to be legally baseless, it's not his decision to make in the first place. it's joe biden's decision to make. and biden has already indicated that he is not going to assert executive privilege. but that doesn't stop donald trump from litigating it. so, the next big day will be next week, when all four of those witnesses have been subpoenaed to testify. that to me, is the more vital subpoena. and it's the subpoena that if i were in the house, i would be focused on. because the recent mug and -- that wound its way, during the last congress all the way through, the d.c. circuit. ultimately, nullified donald trump's assertion of something he called, absolute immunity. which just prevents top executives, or top crp officials to the president, trump testifying altogether. that does not exist. so if you are not subpoenaed by congress, you must show up, at a very minimum. you can assert executive privilege, there can be a representative from the executive branch, who can exert executive privilege to particular questions. but you still must show up. so when benny thompson talks about criminal referrals, i would suspect that what he's talking about is referring the defiance of the testimonial subpoenas, to the department of justice, for them to investigate and consider charging the witnesses with criminal contempt. which is a felony crime. how long is that process? >> well, it depends on what happens, and it depends on how much the testimony gets wrapped up in the litigation. that many believe is forthcoming. the reason why you would go after the testimony, is much cleaner, then documents. documents, some of them may give rise to punitive, executive privilege claims, that donald trump would've sir, and biden would have to respond to, it gets very machine and that's not a good case to bring for a criminal contempt, but the doj would have to investigate it, it doesn't take that long to investigate it in theory and then they would prepare to potentially bring charges this is rarely done. but if there is ever a time to do it it would be in relation to, the insurrection on january six. when are democratic republic was put in peril. >> donald trump did say something uncharacteristic, in a podcast, about this. when asked about challenging the subpoenas, defying the subpoenas, he said, well i'm mixed, because we did nothing wrong. so i'm sort of saying, why are we hiring lawyers to do this? i'd like to just have everybody go in, and just say what you have to say. now, i'm quoting a pathological liar here. so the fact that he says this today, has of course no meaning like everything else he says. but for him to strike that at all. is a bit surprising. >> it's donald trump's mo. he will say that when he would love to do is the right thing, but his lawyers won't let him, or he's being instructed that he can't. i would love to go to speak to bob mueller. but i can't go to speak to bob mueller, for some unknown reason. and then he delays and doesn't do. i would love to turn over my tax returns, but we still have not seen them, it is, at this point, almost a tick by donald trump to do that. and he's foreshadowing exactly what he's going to do. which is that he's hire lawyers to file a lawsuit, to prevent these witnesses from turning over the documents, a thursday, will probably be the day, that they filed a lawsuit, and there will be no documents that will be turned over. >> we will see, thursday. thank you very much for joining. us we really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> coming up, speaker pelosi's vote counters, who was with president biden today in michigan, will join us. will get her take on where the biden agenda stands in the house of representatives tonight. the house of representatives tonight. 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>> lawrence were not vote counting right now, we're figuring out where we're, getting him or not do numbers in public, we're talking substance, figuring out how we're gonna get it passed and how we're gonna get to building back better. >> you are with the president again today in michigan, he's gone to michigan more than once on this same subject, why michigan? why is that one of his favorite places to go, for this subject? >> well, michigan is reflective of the country. it was the state that donald trump won five years ago now, four years ago. which i predict a bit everybody thought i was crazy. it's a state that he, won in 2020. we have people that look at issues, and they think about them thoughtfully, we have people on both sides, how -- not the heartland of democratic territory, as a matter of fact it has a lot of people supporting donald trump. but that series got. ago he's gotta go and talk to the american people, about what he is planning to do, lay out that vision, and that's how we're going to get this done. >> what is the right mix for the president now, between these meetings he's having, with sometimes individual senators, sometimes with groups of house members. in going out there in speeches like the speech today? >> it's a combination, first of all, you heard me and i said this for a number of weeks, i thought they were only having conversations with a few people, a few senators from the senate, and most of the house members didn't know what people were talking about, what's the programs, where we all know what the build back better vision is. and we need, and by the way, the american people wanted, they want our roads and bridges, fix they're worried about childcare, i could go through the whole list again, and we need more of that, but the president, people now understood, after he came to the democratic caucus on friday. what is it that he wants us to do. any laid it out very clearly. he laid it out and said i don't want to talk about numbers right. now i want to know what your constituents, what he's starting to have those conversations, it's not only he, it's the speaker and others. and they're talking to the caucus, as a whole. we have to quit, -- everybody loves it, okay what can we really get done? this is the vision that he laid out when he ran for president, now we have to deliver it to the american people. >> one reason why the numbers in these bills is so, big is because this legislation arena has been ignored for so long. if you don't do infrastructure repairs in building for many years, then you have many years worth of expenses building up under you. and, there's a future, to this kind of expenditure. it's always big when you finally get around to doing it. president made that point today. about how this is not spending for one year, this is spending for the future. let's listen to what he had to say about that. >> the only thing we have been missing, is the will from washington, to finally build an economy around you. an economy that gives you and your family a fighting chance to get ahead. gives our country a fighting chance to compete with the rest of the world. we need to prepare for ten years, down the line, that's with these bills do, both of these bills spend out over ten years, not in the first year. >> what is your sense of the way swing voters in michigan, here a speech like that? >> i think by coming to michigan, being covered by the michigan media, you know they heard him say today? and they know at >> those voters that voted for donald trump done five years ago did not think washington cared about them. didn't care about their jobs. he talked about 75% of the batteries right now for electric vehicles are being built in china, and we can't let that stand. we have to build those batteries here in this country. he talked about what happened in the steel plant, we, know my district is one of those districts that has closed steel plants, across the riverfront. those steel workers have been out of jobs for ten 2030 years. they want their jobs here in america, and that's where he's laying, out how are gonna get, they're how are gonna keep those jobs, and by the way, how are we gonna bring that supply chain back to this country. what's in build back america, is part of getting that done, >> congresswoman debbie dingell, thank you very much for joining us tonight, always appreciate, it thank you. >> coming up, racist government officials, drove the bruce family, out of business, and out of town. 100 years ago. and now, the state of california, has given the bruce family property back, to its rightful heirs. rightful heirs. that story is nexts next neuro. and i love the science behind neuriva plus. unlike ordinary memory supplements, neuriva plus fuels six key indicators of brain performance. more brain performance? 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but also the, unanimous support of the legislature? >> i think it was overwhelming, and i think it was telling that the unanimous folk people saw this as a horrible injustice to the bruce family, and an injustice that has lasted almost 100 years. my colleagues totally agreed. more importantly, the community and surrounding community, who has been following this issue now for a number of years, and was just truly went under our wings to let us know that we were doing the right thing and moving forward with this legislation. i'm excited about the fact that the government saw enough importance in this issue, to show up in manhattan beach, on that property, that's family owned, and signed the measure with anthony bruce the great great grandson, of charles and will le and do what's right. correct a wrong, that the city of manhattan beach committed on a couple who did no more than want the american dream, just like any of us here in this country. so, i'm excited and i appreciate the support of my colleagues, but more important the surrounding communities and also the leadership. l.a. county supervisor, jam some and halle mitchell. it couldn't happen without them. >> at a certain point the property came under the control of janice on, and she immediately took action to get this going. i remember reading the first articles about this, in the l.a. times, a few years ago, and being so sickened by being brought right back to the 1920s in, that reporting of when this was happening. and no weighing, as anyone in l.a. would know, how hugely valuable that land became. they bought it for about 12 1500 dollars at the time but it became worth millions upon millions of dollars. in fact, anthony bruce, i just want to read for the audience this passage from the l.a. times, that anthony bruce wrote. he said, the bill will allow my family to do with countless other american families have done since their country's founding, inherent property and -- i'll never know whether my family's business would've grown to rival that of hilton or mariah riot, both of which were founded around the same time as bruce's speech and grew from equally humble beginnings. senator bradford, you know with the value of that land skyrocketed, over time, there was an enormous fortune coming to the bruce family, if that land remained in the family. >> without a doubt. it just showed how hard the city of manhattan beach work to make sure that this family was denied what was clearly would've been generational wealth. as we move through this process, if we were constantly confronted by people who says who knows if the family would've lost their land, who's to say that they wouldn't if sold it or anything like that. well what would generational wealth look like, it would look like the hilton, though the vanderbilts, but they were denied that. i'm not only where the bruce is denied that, hundreds upon thousands of americans african americans across the state, across this nation have been denied the opportunity to bill generalist generational wealth. who would've known? this could have very well been a bruce peach chain, up and down the west coast, all down california, all across this nation. but they were denied that opportunity, simply because of racism. >> i'm glad you mentioned possible other cases, because when you read these articles about this, you know you are dealing with a tip of an iceberg. you know you're dealing with the one exposed story, in a now in light and community of los angeles. with senators like you and janice on and others. who are working on this. but all over the country, you can imagine things like this happening 100 years ago. in places that have not come close to coming to terms with it. >> without a doubt. i want to also recognize a book by allison jefferson, who happen to grow up in the same neighborhood, living at a california dream -- schieffer started exposing all of the other african american leisure spots, in the early 1900s. -- valve area, palm dale. these were african american recreational spots, add hearing to the jim crow rawlings. outside the state of california, let's go to south carolina, we all know about hilton -- a magnificent golf resort, i'm a golfer, it's been one of the most pristine resorts in this country for golfers. that was once inhabited by slaves. after the civil war, south carolina slaves were forced off the mainland and had to live on that island, i'm not until the whites realize what a piece of land it was, they cut off the water to the island and force them back to mainland. so that's another example of land that was stolen from african americans, it's now a multi million million dollar resort, in south carolina. so there's plenty of examples, as you stated the, that mirrors with the prices went through. >> california state center stephen brad for, thank you very much for joining us tonight on this important story. senator, we really appreciate it. >> thank you for your interest in this critical issue. >> thank you. tonight's last word is next. tonight's last word is next. tonight's last word is next. knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ this is the sound of an asthma attack... that doesn't happen. this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is a different kind of asthma medication. it's not a steroid or inhaler. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's one maintenance dose every 8 weeks. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. nearly 7 out of 10 adults with asthma may have elevated eosinophils. fasenra is designed to target and remove them. fasenra is not a rescue medication or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. this is the sound of fasenra. ask your doctor about fasenra. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. so, you have diabetes, here are some easy rules. no sugar. no pizza. no foods you love. stressed? 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