irresponsibility knows absolutely no bounds. >> the president accuing republicans of playing russian roulette with the economy with a crisis looming that could end with the loss of millions of jobs, higher interest rates on credit cards and probably some unwelcome news for your 401(k). we're one on one with the senate democrat about the path forward in this show. plus, what is up with facebook and instagram? they are down and out around the world with facebook scrambling to fix whatever is going on. they're also trying to fix a pr problem after those whistleblower claims the company put profit over safety. i'm hallie jackson with what's turning out to be an interesting afternoon. lee ann caldwell is on capitol hill and we'll also hear from stephanie ruhle. president biden basically called out him and the senate republicans on this debt ceiling issue. >> that's right, hallie, and what we hear from senator mitch mcconnell will echo what we heard in a letter earlier today where he again says he wants no part in lifting the debt limit. he's not going to provide any ability for the democrats to do it, saying the democrats can do it on their own if they would like. but what he leaves out of that letter is that what republicans are doing is they are essentially filibustering the lifting of the debt limit. the reason is because, of course, there is a 60-vote threshold in the senate, but if there is consent from all 100 senators, including all 50 republicans, then the senate democrats can lift the debt limit on their own. that's not something that leader mcconnell is willing to give. now, democrats, on the other hand, are saying it's extremely hypocritical, that raising the debt limit in the past has been done on a bipartisan basis, and the new times when it was done on a partisan basis during the bush administration, it was done with what i referenced before, that simple 50-vote threshold because the democrats, who were in the minority at the time, allowed the republicans to do it alone. and so we are at the stalemate right now, hallie. it is a staring contest between the two parties. democrats think mcconnell is perhaps going to give as this deadline comes closer and closer of october 18th, but that's not really in mcconnell's dna. but i will say the mood up here on capitol hill, democrats are extremely frustrated that mcconnell is retreating in this way, saying that all efforts to work on a bipartisan basis has really just dissolved up here, and there is a lot of anger at mcconnell and republicans by democrats over this issue, hallie. >> steph, let me go to you here, because lee ann is giving us -- and lee ann, i say this as a compliment to you, the in-the-weeds version of this political perspective. if, in fact, what secretary janet yellen calls this catastrophe were to happen, talk about what it means to raise the debt ceiling and what happens if we don't. >> you can go to jamie diamond, ceo of jp morgan. they're the biggest learned in this country. if the united states' credit rating drops, all the different ways you borrow money are going to get more expensive. you mentioned it earlier, car loans, home loans, credit card loans, anything out there, this impacts the price in which we're able to borrow money. and don't forget, yes, we are now in a positive economic slope. this could trigger a recession. we're in a very tricky time, and if suddenly we can't pay our debts -- you're going, what are debts? why does that matter to me? the government owes people, companies, social security administration. for people who have 401(k)s, this could trigger the stock market to earn a third of its current value. oh, do i really know anyone that's a stock investor? this affects your 401(k) and this could put people in peril for no reason. >> steph, i know you're going to be all over this the next, what, couple weeks? hopefully a little bit less. lee ann, we might come back to you live as soon as we hear from senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. as soon as he speaks, you'll hear it here. ladies, thanks. you'll hear of a huge outage taking out facebook, whatsappin. so you have facebook trying to fix this issue. the timing here less than a day after a whistleblower allegation from former employee florence hogan. some of the things she talked about on "60 minutes," how the facebook algorithm, the computer code that tells you what specific content pops up on your feed of all that's out there, she says that incentivizes hateful and divisive content. she says the company knows that instagram makes eating disorders in teenage girls worse, then flip the switch back on many of those changes after. watch. >> and as soon as the election was over, they turned them back off or they changed the settings to what they were before to prioritize growth over safety. that really seems criminal to me. >> she says she is not a disgruntled employee. she told me before she locked out of the system for the last time in may, i don't hate facebook. i love facebook. i want to save it. facebook said, every day our teams have to balance protecting the right of billions of people to express themselves openly with the need to keep our platform a safe and positive place. adding, we continue to make significant improvements to tackle the spread of misinformation and harmful content. to suggest we encourage bad content and do nothing just is not true. with me now, host of the podcast's way. karen, it is so good to have you on the show today, especially on a day like today. >> yeah. >> i think a lot of people are wondering what your thoughts are, your takeaways are of what we've seen unfold in the last 24 hours here. >> i thought it was interesting to see that. i thought what francis was doing was really brave. i think a lot of these people within the companies, which i say over and over again, are trick people who want to use these platforms for good and also let people express themselves. they have it flipped backwards. safety of the platforms should be top of mind in order to let people express themselves. what happens is you get drowned out by all the bile, all the hate, all the misinformation. they need to flip a script here, and she's suggesting, they're going to try to impune her that she was mid-level, she wasn't important, she was only okay. but the fact is there are people like her in these companies who want to do good. she likes facebook, she just doesn't like what they're doing to it. and that, i think, is the point. >> i had the chance to talk to the facebook global head of security exclusive on the "today" show this morning. i think people who have been watching the tech industry know facebook's core business model, right? hagan says facebook was fundamentally opposed to a private experience. with engagement, people are angry, that's what gets the clicks. i want to play for you how ms. davis responded to this line of questioning here. watch. >> so is the core business model something facebook is willing to look at in order to improve people's safety on the site? >> i think it's sort of a short-sighted way of thinking about this. this is actually sort of an inaccurate way of thinking about our business model. we've actually had changes, for example, where we adjusted our news feed. it brought down the time spent by about 50 million hours a day, which is exactly what people would think would be contrary to our business portal, but it's a better experience for people on the platform. our advertisers also don't want it to be a toxic place for people to come. >> cara, talk about that, because could maybe both be true? it could be worse than it is now but it could also be better? >> it's not really an argument, is it? it's not so crappy. that's not an argument. with all due respect for her, she's the only one that's come out there. they've thrown her to the wolves. you don't see andrea bosworth, you don't see mark zuckerberg. when they want to push something positive, they're not there, and they send davis to do this. she's absolutely right, they don't promote a situation that poses misinformation. at the same time the fact of the matter is this company has always said growth is more important than anything else on the platform, and then they go back and fix it. it's the attitude, like i was saying, flip your skich. the problem is nobody trusts this, i have to check my pocket to see if it would fit. twitter and youtube, but others like snapchat and others that actually spend their time trying to make it safe for people because it's a better experience. the problem is this is the biggest platform. this is the platform that most people get their news across the globe. this is the platform that's pointed to the most. they're the biggest, and therefore, they have to be the best at safety. the best. not "we tried" and also it's a false assertion that we blame them for january 6. we don't blame them for that. we blame the rioters. we can blame president trump but we can blame the fact that they don't contribute to sufrt. they had annoying parents at some point. but it's true. >> as you say, you spent's dick aid. in the building behind me at the capitol. >> yes, we actually want regulations. s the whistleblower says she wants regulations. >> how many laws do you think there are about tech? none. there's none. there's like 412 on banks and cars and airplanes, everything. even cyber bitcoin is about to get regulated. this is the only place that protects all these social platforms. we have to get data protection. we have to get all kinds of things around anti-hacking issues. there are so many different laws that need to be passed, and at this point i'm not even blaming these folks because regulats in the u.s. everyone is on board. when you have marcia blackwell making a deal with robert robenthal, you have some agreement. >> thank you for being with us. we talk to monica lewinsky about what would happen if she had twitter in 1998. keep a close eye on the senate floor which is respectively going tib rebuttal to the dent ceiling demand today. here to talk about all of it, democratic senator. that guidance for what to do on the hollywood graves website. what we know and what you should know about this pretty confusing story, next. know about this pretty confusing story, next. everything felt like a “no.” but then paul went from no to know. with freestyle libre 14 day, now he knows how food affects his glucose. and he knows when to make different choices. take the mystery out of your glucose levels - and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us ♪♪ i'm still drawn to what's next. even with higher stroke risk due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin that's a trail i want to take. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk better than warfarin. and has less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis has both. don't stop taking eliquis without talking to your doctor as this may increase your risk of stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking, you may bruise more easily or take longer for bleeding to stop. get help right away for unexpected bleeding, or unusual bruising. it may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor about eliquis. what happens when we welcome change? we can make emergency medicine possible at 40,000 feet. instead of burning our past for power, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron. we can create new ways to connect. rethinking how we communicate to be more inclusive than ever. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change. faster. vmware. welcome change. so now you probably heard about that pretty controversial cdc guidance about celebrating the upcoming holidays and celebrating the upcoming holidays virtually, right? it turns out that was wrong. that guidance on the cdc website that vaccinated people should be, but now they're saying they had a technical update on friday but doesn't refrequent the cdc's guidance ahead of this upcoming holiday season. clc will share additional guidance soon. this is dr. fauci's holiday plans. >> i will be spending christmas with my family. i encourage people, particularly the vaccinated people who are protected, to have a good christmas with your family. >> that comes as the "new york times" company johnson & johnson will seek fda authorization for a booster shot. we have dr. irvin redliener, let me start with you. guidance was put up on the cdc website sometime friday night and saturday morning. it hung out there for two and a half days with people thinking they would have to virtually celebrate the holidays again this year, and now two and a half days later, the cdc says, no, technical problem. we'll have your holiday guidance soon. is that a big mess-up or what? >> hallie, i'm flabbergasted by this. this is not the first time there has been misunderstanding about messages and misstated messages coming from the cdc and other agencies. i think the administration has to get its act together on this. we cannot have this. for one thing it really undermines the credibility of the public in these cdc guidelines and in the messages about controlling the pandemic. but the other problem, of course, politically for president biden is that he's got a lot of other irons in the fire, very complicated political agendas around the debt ceiling and international issues and the budget and everything else. he does not need to have the public scratching their heads about what it is they're trying to say about like what to do around the holidays. furthermore, the whole messaging around the holidays is itself complicated because we're seeing now lots and lots of writing about the fact that this pandemic is going in waves. it comes in, gets intense for a couple months and retracts. i think it is way too early to make a statement about what needs to happen in december, frankly. it's a problem. they're going to have to get a handle on this. >> this was my question to you, dr. ghani. thanksgiving is two months out, not even? is there advice about getting together with people? what do you say? >> i think we will have to wait to see what happens with trans transmission over the next month or two. i think you'll see declines over the next few weeks. i think there will be declines in numbers. what should you do to be able to celebrate with family and friends? number one and number two, get vaccinated. that's the most important thing you could be doing. the other thing i would suggest is to have some rapid test kits on hand. test first thing in the morning before you spend time and celebrate with your family and friends. if you're positive that would mean you should isolate. if you come back negative, you can relax that day. then some of the other things i would add onto that if you want to be extra safe would be do as much outdoors as possible and have some masks on hand if you're going to be doing things indoors, especially with more vulnerable people, people who are elderly, people who are immunocompromised. >> so two things on that, and i'd like you both to get into this. dr. gander, i'll start with you, because i think people will see whatever the advice from the cdc is when it actually comes out, and then they'll be like, oh, my god, here we are again, a year since the pandemic. i did the virtual thing last year with masks, i'm fully vaccinated. you could call it guidance fatigue, i think, and there's the trust factor when the cdc does something that apparently they did this afternoon, a technical error that lingered out there for two and a half days. how do you address that? >> i think the technical error resulted in a minor update to the website which re-upped last year's guidance and made it look like it was fresh guidance for this year. i think we do need to set that aside in terms of what our plans are and wait for the cdc to come through with their updated guidance. >> i don't want to interrupt, but i want to make sure. you're saying you think it was basically a refresh of last year's guidance that accidentally got put out that people think it was this year's guidance. >> that's correct. i think we need to wait to see what the updated guidance will be. it will be along the lines of what i just described. i do think we need to do everything possible to avoid these kinds of snafus that can have really dramatic consequences when people try to make plans for the holidays based on what they see on the cdc website. >> dr. redliener, final thoughts to you. >> so i'm not sure what they mean by a technical mishappen. it doesn't make any sense to me. it's basically a straightforward decision that gets made about holiday guidance. it should have been, we have to wait because of the cycling of the pandemic. but then to release something, retract it, it is just consistent with a penance that's been going on too long. the white house needs to get it together and hopefully soon. the message needs to be we won't have information until we know for sure. probably weeks from now we'll get that information. >> thanks to both of you for your expertise here this afternoon. appreciate it. we're keeping an eye on the senate. we're waiting to bring you remarks from senator durbin at the moment. we expect senator mcconnell soon who will probably have something to say about the debt limit. president biden accused them of playing russian roulette with the economy. member of health and labor pensions community. senator, thanks for being here and thanks for being back on the show. >> thank you. it's great being here with you. >> best case scenario, in your happy universe, what do you need to hear come out of senator mcconnell's mouth? >> the democrats are going to do their job to pass this debt ceiling. i had hoped the democrats would do the responsible thing, which is to contribute to raising the ceiling like mitch mcconnell has 32 times. continue in the way we've been doing it. we need for them to get out of the way and let the american people do what it needs to do, and do it soon, like this week. >> if they will not get out of the way -- i hear what you want to hear from senator mcconnell. it's probably not likely -- i don't know, i'm not a mind reader, but i think it's probably unlikely he'll come out and say that. ly you have senator schumer on the floor now. you would avoid a filibuster, et cetera. they say that's too dangerous, but do democrats have any choice if republicans make them go it alone. >> reconciliation, as you say, sort of a nerdy thing that allows the senate to do its work with a simple majority. using reconciliation right now to raise the debt ceiling, it is too risky, too time consuming and unnecessary. let's just pass the debt ceiling by using a simple majority vote without going through all that. it's pretty simple. either the republicans stop blocking us, and to be clear, they're using the filibuster to block us. or i think the democrats have to think about changing the rules for this debt ceiling raising because it's just not reasonable to think that we would put -- this would be default by stupidity if we allowed the republicans to stand in the way of protecting the full faith and credit of the united states of america right now. >> so you said something interesting about considering changing the rules. do you think a potential default on our debt would be enough for some of the senators in a democratic caucus, right, some of your colleagues, to change their minds, the ones who have resisted changing the rules so far. do you think this, the potential to hit an economic catastrophe, as they say in central october, would be enough to say, i'm changing my mind on the filibuster. >> i'm just looking at this specific situation right now. we could change the rules in order to do by a simple majority what needs to be done to protect our country. think of the impact on families. it actually have real impacts on american families. if the republicans block us from passing a debt ceiling, what does that mean? it means medical payments could be delayed, it means veterans payments could be delayed, and means interest rates around the country could go up financially, not to mention the catastrophic impacts in our economy. i know this is what everyone is thinking about. how could it be if you are holding out to not changing the rules, how could you, if you are not on something that should be so simple. >> i want to show viewers the graphic. >> october 8, the debt ceiling. we hit the debt ceiling on the 18th, it's estimated. then the social structure and independent bill. how confident are you that by october 31st, by halloween, end of this month, your group would be able to hammer out a decision on those bills. >> i'm confident it will happen. i appreciated president biden rehammering his vote for, but also things that american voters by. hard things are hard, and i'm not kind of naive about the challenges here. to get back to your original question, this is exactly the reason why we shouldn't be wasting time and going right up until that debt limit and most likely passed it by using reconciliation. when we have work that americans need to see doing, let's get that work done. >> senator smith, thank you so much for being with us. i know it's the start of another busy week for you. thank you. senator chuck schumer speaking live now about a show on the senate floor. what he plans to do this week. >> what he repeatedly ignores -- he knows better -- he that. in other words, get to 50 votes and we won't ask for 60. we're asking for the samely leader now as is. this was my frustration last week. republicans could have had their chance to vote no, and we all could have put an end to this needless impasse. but given the easiest way out of the mess, the republicans still refuse to take yes for an answer. now our company is on the brink of a crisis whose consequences will reverberate around the world. the bottom line, this will soon claim closure to the debt issue in 2022. we only ask that people get out of the way as democrats pass it on our own, just as the majority party did in the early 2000s. it's really that simple. if republicans want to vote to stop payments going from social security or veterans? then be my guest. we don't have the luxury of waiting until october 18 to extend the debt ceiling. even a near miss can have dramatic consequences. every single day we delay taking action, we increase the chances of doing irreversible damage to our global financial system, our economic recovery and trust in our country's ability to pay its debts. >> you have been listening, of course, to senate majority leader chuck schumer speaking live on the senate floor about this debt ceiling issue. we expect to be hearing from his republican counterpart, minority leader mitch mcconnell, who we think will be delivering kind of a rebuttal calling out republicans on this issue. we'll take a quick break and be right back that. plus with the latest live in california. a massive race to a massive racet ♪ ♪ this is what you've been training for. your art-cuterie. your brunch-cuterie? your... friends all had the same idea. fresh groceries and more. free same day delivery. walmart plus to make my vision a reality my varilux progressive lenses provide seamlessly transition from near to far. with every detail in sharp focus. that's seeing no limits. varilux lenses by essilor. at aetna, we take a total, connected approach to your health and wellness to help you age actively. with medicare advantage plans designed for the whole you. we offer monthly plan premiums starting at $0. hospital, medical and prescription drug coverage, in one simple plan. plus dental, vision and hearing. aetna medicare advantage plans medicare annual enrollment ends december 7th. call today to learn more or visit us online at aetnamedicare.com/tv2 (upbeat music) - [narrator] this is kate. she always wanted her smile to shine. now, she uses a capful of therabreath healthy smile oral rinse to give her the healthy, sparkly smile she always wanted. (crowd cheering) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. at walmart, target and other fine stores. let me get this straight. you've got an a.i. strategy to deliver a better customer experience, that will help us retain our customers and even grow our business? how much is this going to cost? here's the figure. 59. 59 million? no, five9. as in five9 intelligent cloud contact center. they won't just power our transformation. they'll fund our transformation. yes, yes! exactly! what are you waiting for? ♪ ♪ . senate majority leader mitch mcconnell speaking live on that debt ceiling issue. let's listen. >> they claim they would be perfectly happy to handle this responsibility with 51 votes done one way, but they would rather risk the nation's credit by doing 51 votes a slightly different way. two different ways to achieve 51 votes. i'm not kidding, this is the position they're taking. the president said it today. the reconciliation procedure would be slightly more inconvenient, they said. a few more days. a few more votes. they would rather duck. the democratic leaders running america are saying with a straight face that the entire u.s. economy should live or die based on the procedural convenience -- convenience -- of washington democrats. now, i've got no problem using the party line process over and over and over to spend trillions and transform the country. but now, for this purpose only, they suddenly and mysteriously find it unappealing. democrats could not be more capable of handling this on their own. just months ago the democratic leader won new powers to use reconciliation over and over. they don't even need our consent, just a vote at 51 instead of 60. they need even less help raising the debt limit than majorities needed in the past. so trust me, madam president, if democrats were stopping reconciliation bills, you would have heard about it in the springtime. the majority doesn't need our votes, they just want a bipartisan shortcut around procedural hurdles that they can actually clear on their own. and they want that shortcut so they can pivot right back at partisan spending as fast as possible. they want a bipartisan shortcut to get right back to more partisan hardball. and republicans have spent 2.5 months -- this is no surprise -- 2.5 months ago explaining that this is the way they needed to go forward on the debt ceiling. this unified democratic government is having trouble governing. they couldn't even pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill which the president negotiated and the speaker of the house passed last week. the majority needs to stop sleepwalking toward yet another preventable crisis. democrats need to tackle the debt limit. we gave them a road map and three months' notice. i suggest that our colleagues get moving. now, on an obviously related matter, speaking of democrats' reckless taxing and spending, this unified government is behind closed doors brainstorming ways to make inflation even more painful for american families. their next reckless purchasing and spending spree has the biggest tax hike on the american people in half a century. so far the bill is more than 2400 pages long. but it can be summarized in just four words. hurts families and helps shawna. hurts families and helps shawna. wasting trillions of dollars on socialism would be a bad idea, anyway, but it's an equally bad idea to tack it on to families being hurt by inflation and soaring costs. the hurtful and painful inflation that began to hurt our economy this spring isn't going anywhere any time soon. the chairman of the federal reserve acknowledged last week that rising prices have become increasing the broad and structural problems. last week the commerce reported that it has continued to rise faster than any time since 1991. the democrats' inflation is so bad, that even though the average american worker has gotten a multiple percentage point pay raise over the last year, their actual purchasing power has actually been cut. their paychecks have gone up, but their buying power has gone down. wholesale inflation just marked the steepest 12 months on record. even dollar stores are having to raise their prices. just ask any american family about the last few trips to the supermarket, the gas station, or the toy store. heaven forbid, if they've had to participate in the housing market or the auto market any time lately. >> you have been listening to senate minority leader mitch mcconnell, of course, live on the senate floor. mcconnell moments ago -- he's now talking inflation, but before that talking about the debt ceiling, insistent, really digging into the gop position here that they will not help democrats pass a suspension of the raising of the debt ceiling. again, just to include what this is about. this is about -- and i'm just saying it in pure english here, right? ly. you are separate from the spending, from the money being talked about with this $3 trillion. this is money that was already spent under prior presidents and in prior congresss. >> lu ann, we asked what people wanted to see with the debt ceiling. how does this change ann? >> it doesn't change anything. their heels are dug in at this moment. mitch mcconnell pointed out correctly that democrats have two ways to lift or suspend the debt limit on their own. one is for republicans to not block it. the other way is through this budget reconciliation process they are currently in the middle of. they have to start the process over, be cumbersome and complicated. mcconnell is saying, look, we want them to do it one way and they can do it that way. well, the problem is, is there's two things, and this is a purely political move by leader mcconnell because democrats do not want to do it through reconciliation. like i said, it's complicated, it's going to take time, and also they would have to put a number on the amount of debt they need to increase it by. they do it the other way, they don't have to, they can just suspend it. they would have to have a number attached to it which isn't good politics. another reason mcconnell wants them to do it through this so-called budget reconciliation way is because then it would invoke another -- getting complicated here -- vote-a-rama, which is 24 hours or more, very politically challenging votes that republicans would have to make democrats take. so all around, what mcconnell is doing is very good politics for him and his party and very bad politics for democrat and the democratic party. we keep saying this word over and over again, but it is a staring contest, but it's a political staring contest and doesn't look like mcconnell is backing down at this point, hallie. >> can i just get real with you for a minute, please? >> please. >> stephanie, please feel free to jump in on this conversation, too, because most people, right, living their lives day to day probably don't care about what's happening right now with the back and forth of this. they're going to seriously care october 16 or 17 if there isn't some kind of situation worked out that avoids the default on the debt. you'll see higher interest rates on what you pay on your credit card bill, your mortgage, et cetera. the optics piece of this becomes important in the sense that how you sort of describe it and how you talk about it. we saw that from the white house press secretary today, mike, right? making the point that this is money that was spent that republicans wanted to spend, and now their argument is you should pay the bill that you wrapped up, and you're refusing to do so. >> that's right, jen psaki came to the meeting today with some visual aids. she said the spending they need to pay for, the debt ceiling they need to recover, is happening more in the trump administration, over$70 trillion new debt with the trump administration with less with biden today. this is simply about old spending. but to continue the real talk here, this is one of those moments have crystallizes why so many americans are fed up with washington. both sides in this debate can lean back in the process to argue that they are the ones in the right here, and ultimately what the problem is for this white house, mitch mcconnell knows if and when both sides don't blink here and we go into debt, this is the party struggling with government here. what the white house was trying to do today is make this a little bit more of a political site. biden knows mitch mcconnell very well, that he is not someone who typically blinks. so can they build enough pressure to get people in the caucus there to vote for this. you know when they talk about this process, the husbands are generally left in the dark. >> millions of americans aren't paying attention, but they know this is what mitch mcconnell does. he's the best at playing politics and he's made it clear, he's going to make life as difficult as possible for joe biden, calling it biden's inflation, biden's problem. when you're talking about the debt ceiling, he is talking to every if -- one. all of this makes it very difficult for biden. >> stephanie rule rkt lee ann caldwell, mike memoli, thank you for joining us today. i appreciate it. the first in-person since the start of the pandemic is now on the books. the list of items on the docket this term, making it potentially the most controversial in recent history. looking at abortion, looking at gun laws, looking at religious rights. a group of justices arguably leaning more to the right after. take us inside the first day of hearing. look together? >> it is different because they are back in the courtroom. the supreme court made live streaming audio available. that's a first from the courtroom. they started doing it during the conference call because there was no public admission to the justice' houses. there is still no public admission to the courtroom because of covid. that's why they made this audio available. some of it was the usual give and take spontaneous things. some of it went down the row by seniority. it seemed to go well. clarence thomas asked the first questions. >> not a super vocal questioner typically, right, b? >> not until recent years when they started doing the roll call by seniority when he sort of found his voice. >> i know the mississippi abortion case is heard in december, right? >> december 1st. the gun case about the second amend outside the house will be heard in november. this thing that you call the death penalty case is about the extent to which defense lawyers can question jurors before a trial. it is about whether the boston marathon bomber got enough of a chance to question jurors that one will be heard next week. and then the one on the right of the screen is going to be in december. that's a religious freedom case. the question is, when public money is spent given to parents to pay for religious -- to pay for private education, it's okay, the court has said in the past, to give it schools that are run by religious institutions. it takes it to the next step, what if these schools offer religious education, actually religious instruction. >> our human supreme court encyclopedia, brian williams. if you have been paying attention to former president trump since he left office, it seemed a matter of when not if he announces another presidential run, today we are learning he came close to the announcement in august as president biden was taking heat from the messy exit from afghanistan. but mr. trump was talked out of it. why? advisers were worried it could help democrats frame the midterm around him. but the former president is confident he could beat at least one potential republican rival if he does run. >> if you faced a republican like ron de santis in the primaries, what would it take for you to beat him? >> most people would drop out. he would drop out. if i faced him i would beat him like i would beat everyone else. >> donald trump has a long time ally working on who might serve in the administration as another former ally is wondering what that second term could look like. >> i want to warn people that once he takes office, if he were to win, he doesn't have to worry about re-election anymore. he will be about revenge. he will probably have some pretty draconian policies that go on. >> i want to bring in mark murray, joining me now for all of this. let me start with what we just heard from the former white house press secretary. she is out with a new book. say when you will about her credibility when you think about that. it is a juxtaposition when she talks about the draconian policies she thinks trump would put in place. and listen to steve bannon f you are going to take over the administrative state and destruct it then you have to have shock troops prepared to take it over immediate yae. i gave him fire and brim stone. what does that sound like to you? >> you and i have seen the trump administration up close. really the first two years it took them that time to figure out how to figure out how the machinery of washington works, in years three and four they had a better control. what made sense to me from what steve bannon was talking about is that they have feel lying they have a better plan of having government and the bureaucracy bend to donald trump's will if he actually ends up running. as you and i both know very well, donald trump isn't running for president in 2004 until he says he's running. >> no kidding on that one, mark. what is interesting -- it is funny, i have just been, as you know sort of talking with folks sort of in the orbit around that. there is this consensus, right, that like he might -- he said it himself -- i think most people would drop out if he runs. there is a consensus he could freeze the field until he says what he has decided one way or the another. and he is confident he would do well. do you think there is much to that, mark, that the field might be frozen? you are seeing people like pompeo and others making clear indications they plan to run. >> trump would be the biggest piece on the chess board. i don't think it would keep other people were running but certainly would freeze other people or make them think twice. we ended up seeing that dynamic play out in the democratic race in 2020 about joe biden. but there was concern about his page and ideology. still we had a field of 20 people or so. there were some important democrats, terry mccollough who said joe biden is in this race and i am not going to run. trump has every incentive to play this out as long as possible. he has so much power up until the moment he says i am not running after all. >> it is not a compare comparison between president biden as a candidate and then donald trump. just given what you could call the grip on the party. what others might describe as an undying devotion blindly to donald trump that some democrats are concerned republicans have. >> absolutely. i mean he has big control over the party. as we found out in the the democrat race that that obama kind of third term i think still ended up proving where most democratic primary voters were. but hallie, you are exactly right, that the party today looks a whole lot more like donald trump. if he says he is running he's the odds on shoe-in to maybe be the republican nominee. we just have a long ways and a lot of twists and turns before we get there. >> mark murray, thank you for being with us. thanks to all of you for watching this unexpectedly busy hour of hallgy jackson reports. you can find us on line. line. deadline white house is next. 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