both bills to the american people because it meets their needs. so we're not using an artificial timeline, and we're not concerned with process. we're concerned about delivering. >> all this, plus tomorrow, the supreme court will return to the bench for the first day of its new term, and it will be a consequential one with cases involving abortion, gun rights, and separation of church and state, all that on the docket. >> so we're going to go beyond the headlines with nbc's heidi przybyla, and julie sirken standing by at the capitol. heid you first. the white house is sending a clear message about these bills and so are republicans, so what are you hearing? >> the president marking a new phase of his legislative agenda, alex, and it's one we have seen throughout history. it's really necessary, if you're trying to pass a major piece of legislation that's taking it to the people. we saw that with george bush and tax cuts. obama and health care. the president, you heard him yesterday, say he's going to work like hell right now because he believes the people really don't understand what's in this bill, and he's going to do that over working with republicans. he's making that the priority over working with republicans because according to him and his advisers, they have seen what happens throughout history in terms of recent history as well as during the obama administration, joe biden trying to get work with republicans. here's what cedric richmond said this morning. >> the real question is why are republicans making us go at everything alone? we have to do the american rescue plan alone. but the good news is we do have a united democratic party. we're always going to put people and purpose first, not politics, and we're going to get it done. >> so the democrats say that they are united. they're not united on the number and they still have lot of details to work out, but this white house is confident they can get something done because if they don't, it's going to hurt everyone in the party. they were all elected on this agenda, so that's the priority right now. of course, it is going to rankle republicans, including senator burasso. here's what he had to say. >> i thought joe biden went to the hill on friday to try to get that bipartisan infrastructure bill passed, and instead, he surrendered to the radical wing of his party and now you have this big government socialism reckless spending bill. the democrats are not coming to talk with republicans on any of these things. >> so the administration would say that's an example of why they believe they cannot work with republicans at this time, because the bigger piece of his agenda, this broader social safety net overhaul, is being branded as radical socialism by republicans. they believe ultimately they will have the votes there among democrats. but again, i take you back to president obama and the stimulus, having to be cut way back in terms of the negotiations that they ultimately cut with republicans. this white house and these progressive democrats in congress, they say we're not doing that. we're going to unite our party in the end, we will be successful. >> okay. well, thank you for that from the white house. we're going to continue that part of the conversation now as we bring in from capitol hill, nbc's julie cirken. we heard mostly progressive democrats speaking about these negotiations. what specifically is their message and how are they hoping to move the needle with it? >> their message is to focus less on numbers and more on the contents of that massive human infrastructure bill. all of the sunday show hosts this morning, including our own chuck todd, asked progressives where they're willing to come down in terms of number and what they're willing to make trims on in terms of the content in that massive infrastructure package. they didn't say, though, but remember, president biden when he visited house democrats on friday night, gave them a homework assignment. he said number one, we have to come down on the number. it won't be $3.5 trillion. and more importantly, number two, what are your priorities.te bill and where can you make trimmed pramila jayapal was asked. watch. >> what we said from the beginning is it's never been about the price tag, it's what we want to deliver. i don't feel a need to give a number. i gave my number, it was $3.5. >> what about $1.5? >> that's not going to happen. it's going -- >> why won't it add up to that? >> that's too small to get our priorities in. that's going to be somewhere between $1.5 and $3.5, and i think the white house is working on that now. >> jayapal is the chairwoman of the congressional progressive caucus. you heard that exchange. she wasn't willing to reveal her cards and negotiate against herself. they want to take the focus away from the number, but when she was asked specifically about that $1.5 trillion number, which is of course, what senator manchin wants, she said absolute lay not. that is not even a starting point we're willing to entertain. so bernie sanders was actually on "meet the press" following pramila jayapal's appearance on cnn and he was asked by chuck about the contents of the bill, where are you willing to make trims? sanders said this isn't a wish list. all our priorities from paid family leave to child care to climate change need to be a part of this bill, but the reality here is, and the reality check president biden gave them on friday, they're going to have to make trims and pick and choose if they want to build consensus and get all 50 senate democrats onboard. >> okay. another great report there. and leading me to this next discussion. thank you so much, julie, for that. >> joining me now, peter baker, chief white house correspondent for "the new york times" and also an msnbc political analyst, and it's never a sunday without peter baker so i'm glad you're here, my friend. let's talk about what politico reported, that some expected the president on friday to meet with the democrats and encourage the passage of that bipartisan bill. he reportedly did the opposite. did that move surprise you? and what is the white house strategy behind it? >> well, look, i think that this is a president who recognizes that the center of gravity in his caucus right now is with the progressives more than it is with the moderates. in fact, look at the progressive caucus that congresswoman jayapal leads. about 100 members of the democrats in the house, almost half, whereas the moderates who have been most vocal about passing the hard infrastructure bill first without connecting it to the social welfare bill are only about nine. so he moved to their side and said look, i agree with you. i'm goeg to link these two bills until we get both of them passed, we're not going to pass either. that's a pretty big strategic shift in terms of capitol hill. that doesn't mean he doesn't want to irk with with the moderates. he knows better than anybody whrx you have margins as narrow as thee are, when you have just three votes you can lose in the house, you have to work with the moderates, and progressives may not like it. they may not want to work with joe manchin or kyrsten sinema and say they're acting like republicans, but if you don't have manchin and sinema and the moderates in the house, you don't have a majority and you don't have the votes to pass something. there will be a compromise. >> here's the big question. absent from the pressure from progressives, i know it's a big caveat, would the president and the administration prefer to have the bipartisan bill under their belts so to speak, already having passed it, not have to worry about linking that with the reconciliation bill, or do they also want both done together and send a message? >> i think they would rather just have the infrastructure bill done and passed and they could show they were bipartisan as the president promised to be in last year's campaign, and then focus on this social welfare bill, human infrastructure bill, whatever name you want to call it. by linking the two, it makes it that much more complicated because you have to manage a balance a fractious coalition with no room to spare. zero votes you can basically lose. so i think they would rather have that done, but that was not the reality on the hill this week. >> so are progressives real with their fears, if the first bill had passed, they may not get even close to what they want in the second. >> well, yeah. both sides in effect are holding the bill that they want hostage for the other bill. in other words, the moderates say we won't commit to the social welfare bill until we get the infrastructure bill done. progressives say we won't do the infrastructure bill unless we get a commitment on the human welfare. both sides are playing against each other. what's really dangerous here for the president is not that, you know, look, ultimately if this gets done, nobody is going to remember the messy process that got them there. if they get to a compromise, pass both of these bills, all people are going remember for the most part is what they did, either like it or don't like it. if they don't get it done and they're taking a chance because they're on the edge here, that's a huge risk for this president, and they say there's no time to worry, it's six days or six weeks, maybe, but when you have a 50-vote majority in the senate, every day that's on the line, especially if you look -- this is not a young group of people in the senate. we're in the middle of a pandemic. you could alienate a senator who decides to leave the party, that's what happened in george w. bush in his first year when he lost the majority. there's a risk of not getting this done, and that's what the white house has to worry about. >> let me play for you something that the president said yesterday as he was leaving the white house. here's that. >> there's an awful lot that's in both of these bills that everybody thinks they know. but they don't know what's in them. when you go out and you test each of the elements in the bill, everyone is for them. not everyone. but with 70% of the american people are for them. >> is that maybe, peter, where the best argument lies. the individual elements of the bill, that's what resonates with the american public, to the point you were talking about. forget about the talking price and the sausage making you and i are discussing right now. is the strategy going in that direction? tell the people what they're going to get, have them get behind it. >> yeah, if people don't know what's in the bill, then whose fault is it at this point? that's what a president is supposed to do, tell the american people what he's trying to do, why he's trying to do it, what they would get out of it. and they don't know because it has focused entirely on a number. will it be $3.5, $1.5, someplace in between. that's of interest on the hill and that's important in terms of substance, but it's all esoteric or abstract to everyday americans. they're not telling them what's in the bill, why they should care about it. pre-k, you know, education, child care, climate change issues, initiatives, free community college. those issues -- those ideas that are in this bill are popular, do test popular, but this has not been something that the white house or even congress has focused on because they're focused so much on the number. it leaves a lot of americans scratching their head, the question is spend a lot, not spend a lot. that's not territory conducive to passing it. >> peter, i know you heard this, many people are characterizing this entire episode as being pivotal to the biden legacy, which feels a little exaggerated given he has three more years. it's not necessarily with democratic control of congress, but still, if he does get these bills passed in some form, how does this frame his presidency? >> well, look, i do think it is important, obviously, because i think for the reason you said, which is that you won't have democratic control of congress for all four years. he may -- it becomes harder with each passing day, not just because you could lose a single senator and suddenly mitch mcconnell is in charge, but because the closer you get to an election, the harder it is to pass anything in washington these days. and if in fact the republicans take one or both of the houses, then biden is a second press, and he's wagered so much by putting so many elements of his agenda, his priorities in a single bill, almost like lbj put the entire society on the line with a single vote, he has made it a an all or nothing situation. if he were to not get this through, it would put him back on his heels. he would have to rethink how he wants to progress in the presidency. >> peter baker, i love those. ient know if they're sunflowers or daisies, but they're really pretty. thank you. >> let's get to breaking news from california. coast guard and wildfire rescue are among the crews responding to an oil spill about three miles off the coast. officials say more than 120,000 gallons of oil were released creating a slick that spans about 13 square miles. beaches, not surprisingly, are closed, all the way from long beach to newport beach. and today's specific air show finale has been canceled to keep people off the contaminated huntington beach sand and help rescue the wildlife there. emily is joining me now. this is heartbreaking. i'm a frequent patron of those beaches in the summertime. what are we learning about those? >> absolutely. hello there. it's really a race against time at this point. authorities feverishly working to stop the oil from continuing to leak into the ocean from the pipeline beach, and two, they're also trying to prevent the oil from leaking into treasured areas, nature preserves and wetlands. 120,000 gallons of oil pouring into the ocean. you said it, they made the difficult decision to cancel the last day of the iconic pacific air show. so authorities could devote their resources and energy to trying to manage what is being described as a potential disaster situation. huntington beach and newport beach, really a focal point for their response at this time. officials there describing how they're seeing dead fish and birds wash ashore. the newport beach mayor reportedly out on a boat last night and running into the oil slick, seeing dolphins swim through it, so really just a hard and difficult situation to fathom. lifeguards also reporting a strong smell in that area, and that has prompted hazmat crews to be sent out to, again, the huntington beach and newport beach areas. they're discouraging members of the public from going outside and approaching the shoreline. an official, an orange county superriser saying the ramifications will extend further than the visible oil and odor at the moment. the impact to the environment is irreversible. it's only 9:00 a.m. on the pacific coast, so the next few hours will be telling. daylight now allowing officials to begin surveying the extent of the damage. alex. >> emily, thank you so much. absolutely heartbreaking story. appreciate that. >> higher prices, possibly slower service. all in the name of efficiency? the big changes now in affect at the post office. plus, what to make of senator kyrsten sinema. is she acting on principle or politics or something completely different? we're going to talk about that as "snl" pokes a little fun at her. >> all right then, just tell us, what do you want? what's good for you? >> yellow starbursts, the film, the polar express, and when someone eats fish on an airplane. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place... ...and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. elderly dementia patients on latuda have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, as these may be life threatening... ...or uncontrollable muscle movements, as these may be permanent. these are not all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor about latuda and pay as little as $0 for your first prescription. in business, setbacks change everything. and pay as little as $0 so get comcast business internet and add securityedge. it helps keep your network safe by scanning for threats every 10 minutes. and unlike some cybersecurity options, this helps protect every connected device. yours, your employees' and even your customers'. so you can stay ahead. get started with a great offer and ask how you can add comcast business securityedge. plus for a limited time, ask how to get a $500 prepaid card when you upgrade. call today. changes kicking in at the postal service this weekend depending where your letter or package is going. you're going to pay more for slower service. nbc's tom costello explains. >> while 70% of first class mail will still be delivered within three days, mail going longer distances, especially coast to coast will take up to five days for delivery. as air mail shifts to ground delivery. the most affected zip codes, those on the edges of the country. including florida, texas, and states west of the rocky mountains. slowing down delivery for some of the 4 million prescriptions that are mailed each day. meanwhile, we'll also be paying up to $5 more in postage to send packages through the holidays. the changes part of postmaster general louis dejoy's controversial plan to put the postal service on firming financial ground. >> and joining me is virginia congressman gerry connolly, a member of the house oversight and foreign affairs committee and the subcommittee on operations which oversees the usps. always good to see you. >> good to see you, alex. >> sir, you have called this plan draconian. what concerns you most about it? >> first of all, as a business model, alex, to say we're doing to degrade service to you and charge you more for it -- >> yeah. >> -- is a recipe for disaster. and what is in fact in dejoy's business plan is the loss of business that will follow. >> so then, what can be the ideology behind it? what's his logic for doing this? >> will, the most charitable interpretation is he's looking at things in a very linear way. we cut these costs and add revenue by charging more, we can return to a solvent bottom line. but as i said, what that doesn't take into account is when you charge more, you lose customers. when you degrade services, people go to alternatives, and there are alternatives. >> plenty, yeah. >> so you're going to lose customers which means your financial plan is going to be skewed by the fact that revenue goes down because of the loss of those customers. and that doesn't seem to have dawned on ms. dejoy, and that's the charitable interpretation. and the less charitable interpretation is this is a part of a scheme to degrade the postal service to set the stage for privatization. >> okay. so it's my understanding it's the beginning of a ten-year plan, but especially to the last point, is there anything congress can or should do about this, and trump holdover, louis dejoy. he is still the postmaster general. is he at the heart of some of these issues? >> yes, he began his tenure before the election, if you remember, by deliberately slowing down mail and it was targeted at the election itself in terms of mail ballots. that isn't just my opinion. that was the finding of federal judges who reversed those decisions. so he starts with very dirty hands, and it's really difficult to believe he has the best interest of the postal service and postal customers at heart. so, you know, i think when we have to work in tandem, we need to work legislatively to block some of these changes and we have a postal reform bill that, by the way, passed our committee on a bipartisan vote. it has a lot of bipartisan support that would bolster the postal service and help reverse some of these very negative changes. but we also need to get at governance, which you just mentioned. he's postmaster general because of both of the governing board of governors put him in there. we need to change the majority on that postal board. we need to frankly get rid of the trump holdovers and have a new biden appointed board that's committed to postal service. >> as friends of mine have said, why can't you just kick the guy out? the president does not have the authority to do that. >> no. no, he is responsible to the board of governors of the postal service. and they are presidential appointees, but once they get appointed, they're pretty autonomous. that's why we need to get a working majority on the postal board of governors as quickly as possible. the good news is there are a couple terms that expire at the end of this year, and my hope is president biden will move swiftly to replace them with people who are truly committed to postal reform but also making sure postal service is there for the american people. especially during the pandemic. >> yeah, well, and also, by the way, if that doesn't happen until the end of the year, start shipping your holiday packages now, it sounds like. let's talk about the reconciliation package together here. when the president spoke with the democratic caucus on friday, were you at all surprised he didn't rally everyone to vote for the bipartisan infrastructure bill last week? did the president change the tenor of the negotiations with speaker pelosi's intended vote last week now off the table? >> you know, i think -- i was expecting a hard ask. and the fact that he didn't do that may have been very clever. i think what he did was, you know, respect the political dynamics at work. respected different political points of view and priorities, but he also exhorted us to recognize reality. it's not going to be $3.5 trillion. it's going to be something less than that. we have to maximize our priorities and our values, and we all share those. we also have to pass that infrastructure bill. so let's come together, work it out, take the time we need, and make it happen. the american people deserve no less. and a lot of political future is riding on this. he made that very clear. i think that was in retrospect a pretty effective approach. >> he had arizona senator, and i remind our viewers she is a democrat, kyrsten sinema, who put out a statement slamming house leadership for delaying the vote on the infrastructure bill, calling it inexcusable, and earlier today, john yarmuth, listen to his point. it's a rather scathing response. >> no idea. you know, i served with kyrsten sinema. she spent most of her time in the house talking with republicans. the only time she ever talked with us was to ask for money. i never really understood what she wanted. i know she has a sincere interest in helping deal with climate change, but that's the only agenda item i have heard. >> so do you have similar sentiments on sinema? what is motivating her to dig in during these negotiations? >> you know, i love john yarmuth, and i understand his frustration. i don't think anything was gained by taking pot shots at fellow democrats, especially two democrats in the senate that we need. we need to pass this. i also know kyrsten sinema. she was my colleague in the house. she comes from a really, really hard scrabble background. she experienced homelessness. she experienced poverty. and so she's not unsympathetic to the underlying values. she may have her own views about cost of programs. i don't know. i haven't talked to her directly about this bill, but i wouldn't write kyrsten sinema off, and in fact, i would reach out to her because i think there's a lot of common ground to be had here if we work at it. i think we need to, whatever our frustrations are that we want to vent, let's do it in private, not in public. that's not a way to win people over in negotiations. >> so what about ultimately, will there be a compromise by the end of this month? will both bills pass? >> i believe they will. i believe democrats understand if we don't hang together, we're going to hang separately. and that really clarifies the mind. that's what joe biden exhorted us to do. and i sensed in the room sort of a step back, all right, we're going to have to reassess the situation and find a path to success. i also want to say, alex, there's a lot of breathless reporting on this, like this is unique. you know, we have never been in this kind of situation where we're on the brink of failure. well, and we're missing deadlines. but if you look at any major piece of legislation in the last 60 or 70 years, or longer, you know, we missed all kinds of deadlines. on medicare, on voting rights, on civil rights, on the affordable care act. so deadlines are action forcing events, but they're usually missed in congress. this is not a unique situation. it's part of the process. it's messy. but it is a necessary part of the process to get people to go where we need to be. and i'm confident that if we put our hearts and minds to real sincere active robust negotiations, we will get this done for the american people. >> listen, my friend, i think you missed my show yesterday because i kept askic, why does it always go to 11:59. i used the word procrastination a few times. i know it's about more than just that. gerry connolly, good to see you. thank you so much. >> thanks, alex. >> the situation in america's courts that might inspire you to start your holiday shopping and also what we were just talking about with regard to the usps. we'll explain it all after the break. oop, someone's not doing their job. okay, let's keep going. shopping for the game can be a minefield for young homeowners who have turned into their parents. can you believe how many different types of water they have in this aisle? 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>> oh, it will definitely impact the holiday season, alex. it goes beyond that. think about all of the things that we import from all over the world and specifically a concern here on the west coast, from china. not just gifts for the holidays but also electronic components, things that go into cars, for example. all those chip shortages. all of that is affected by this. some of this is just speaking for the economy. there was all this pent-up demand from the pandemic. a lot of companies moved up their orders. they're shipping in a lot of goods. here in oakland, which is one of the four big ports on the west coast, the others being l.a., long beach, and seattle, they're looking at some of the biggest cargo volumes they have ever seen. but to the south of here, in los angeles and long beach, there are some massive backlogs. we're talking about more than 60 vessels now that are just waiting offshore trying to get into port, and if 60 doesn't sound like a lot, let me put that into perspective. some of these ships are roughly the size of the empire state building. and on each of those ships are thousands of the big shipping containers, all full of the stuff that you are waiting for. >> the sheer volume of cargo has put stress on every service provider throughout the supply chain. and what we're witnessing now is warehouse space which accounts for about 2 billion square feet under roof here in southern california from the shores of the pacific out to region, are overflowing with cargo. >> big issue here is the shortage of workers. we heard about it throughout the economy. there just aren't the truckers to get these things out to where they need to go. and the bigger issue in all of this is that time is money. it costs money to have these vessels anchored offshore. the warehouses are full of stuff, that means higher costs. that means higher prices passed on to us. and experts say, alex, this could go on well into next year. >> i gotta tell you, i'm looking at my phone at a photo i left last time in los angeles out of l.a.x., but trust me, i'm looking at the port of long beach. there were too many ships to count. can you believe this? anyway, all right, scott. thank you so much. >> a new poll shows the majority of republicans blame migrants for the current pandemic conditions. 55% believe migrants and tourists are responsible for the recent covid surge. that's compares to 32% who blame the unvaccinated, and then 28% who cite the public's failure to follow covid safety guidelines. joining me now is professor of education and sociology at american university, cynthia, who writes about the poll results and the potentially alarming fallout in a new column there. welcome back to the broadcast. i'm curious, were you surprised to find the majority of republicans thinking this way, putting it on migrants and tourists? >> i was a little surprised. you know, we have been seeing rising numbers overall of people willing to blame and seeing the primary blame situated with immigrants or with tourists, but i had not yet seen a poll that put the majority of republicans in that camp. so we now have a majority of republicans who believe something that's patently not true and been repeatedly disproven by fact checking, you know, and is a kind of smoke screen for what we know are really the real drivers behind infection rates, which are the failure to adhere to mask wearing or vaccinations. >> so cynthia, where did this come from? who is responsible for pointing the finger this way, erroneously so? >> scapegoating immigrants is an old tool in the playbook of extremists, i would say, so we typically see it on fringe forums, on the internet. it's very common, generations old. we see it all the time with all kinds of problems. whether it's the economy or illness. but in this case, what we have seen is it's migrated away from the fringe forums into really mainstream political rhetoric. so we have seen sitting governors, senators, the former president himself, repeating this and really not citing the facts about migrants being tested and quarantined at the border, which is the reality. >> so in your article, you said, and you're reiterating something here with the title, but you said blaming immigrants for the spread of covid-19 is a lazy but effective tactic that packs a double punch of disinformation. so does this ultimately boil down to just being some sort of a cheap political strategy? >> it is for sure a political strategy, and unfortunately, an effective one because what it does is it simultaneously scapegoats immigrants. that's dangerous because it crypts to us versus them thinking, and it also places the blame on the current administration's policies and the idea of liberal immigration policies in general being the cause of all kinds of problems. and in this case, conveying disease or something dangerous to american citizens. so it really does blame liberal or elite policy, sitting elites for the situation that we're in instead of citizens who are making choices that don't work to mitigate the virus. >> yeah, something else speaking of that in the article, you also said the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol was a clear illustration of the serious threat that propaganda and disinformation pose to our democracy. so moving to covid-19, how might this covid-19 spread disinformation, how might it manifest itself? >> well, i think any time you see two things happening. one is this contribution to the us v. them thinking, the further polarization, the anger, and directing of the anger at a scapegoat who gets fearmongered, that's a dangerous situation and we have seen that repeatedly. and we're also seeing all kinds of disinformation mobilize, lack of trust in the system, and a failure to trust science and facts, including whether that's a legitimate election or the science of the disease. that is the kind of crisis for a democracy that i think has to be remedies if we're going to be able to move forward without seeing further disintegration. >> well, it is well written and very insightful. cynthia miller, thank you for that. >> thanks, alex. >> you might have already heard one democrat's scathing assessment of kyrsten sinema, but there's more. my panel is going to join me with their scathing assessment of any variety of topics. stay tuned. 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>> gaslighting. it's the worst trumpian tactic, which is to do something repeatedly and regularly, and claim that the opposition is doing just that. kyrsten sinema will be wise to remember her actual past. as john -- as the other congressman -- >> gerry connolly. >> -- yeah, he points out she is a product of childhood poverty. we're trying to pass an extension of the childhood tax credit and paid family leave, which changes that. she's a product of a nongender binary lgbtqia personal history. she's openly a member of that community. we're trying to pass broad social protections which protects kids and educates in elementary schools about those issues. and so we really have gotten to a place with her where it's not even clear what she wants. because the human infrastructure things that go into making this a robust generational transformational package are things that would have benefitted her personally. so her -- perhaps the house democrat strategy of announcing this deadline when they didn't have to was suboptimal and now that bar has been moved to october 31st. maybe nancy pelosi didn't do a great job of controlling the narrative, but it's wildly disingenuous of sinema to say this when we don't know what her objective is other than a random number, and that top line number doesn't matter. the devil is in the details and what goes into that number is what we should be focused on. we as progressives, particularly those in phoenix and tucson who voted her in there, are really disappointed in her behavior. >> david, politico playbook is reporting senior democrats thought the president was coming to the hill on friday to support speaker pelosi's rally for the infrastructure plan vote. instead, he ended up telling them he wanted to hold off until there was a reconciliation deal. we had don addressing this to a degree. one lawmaker telling politico the fact the president came to the hill and whipped against his own bill is the strangest thing i have ever seen. you used to work in congress on the hill. what do you make of this? and everything we have seen this past week? >> yeah, it's remarkable, alex, the choice that democrats have made in the last week or two around the national narrative. what i mean by that is recall there are two bills. the traditional infrastructure planes, trains, automobiles, water. that passed the senate with 69 votes. mitch mcconnell and other republicans joined. and it could pass the house this week. so joe biden and house democrats could actually declare victory with a trillion dollar bipartisan infrastructure bill that does create jobs. that's what the message could be from democrats. instead, because of the internal politics of whether or not they lose leverage over the more progressive human infrastructure, $3.5 trillion bill, they decided not to pass a bill that is passable. look, we all understand the partisanship involved here. we understand the intraparty challenges between progressives and moderates or conservatives and moderates in on the republican side. if you're not a partisan actor, there's a real question, why don't we have the trillion dollar infrastructure bill for the american people tomorrow? because it could pass. >> okay. so susan, though, if you're looking at the perspective of being a progressive democrat, which i know you're not, but just get inside their heads, the fear is real that the second bill could potentially not pass after the first one. >> yes. and that's a real possibility. and i think progressives right now see the only chance of getting this big picture is to do it right now. this is the only chance that they will have, probably, only because you don't get a shot at a proposal this big. this is the only time where they can see such a major reform to our country and our social policies. that's, i believe, how they see it. they are also willing to do something that will scare the moderates as well, which is they would rather go down fighting. they would rather not have a bill than have the wrong bill or not enough money in the bill. and that is what's really dangerous right now to the democratic agenda. and let me tell you, i have issues with this bill. okay. that being said, i want the democrats to get it through because i need them to hold on to the house and senate in 2022 to stop the crazy people in my party. believe it or not, that's what i want. i want to stop the crazy people in my party, so i want the democrats to hold on to things in 2022. the way they're going, they are going to lose all of the moderate seats or swing seats they have with this kind of legislation. >> that's just sad to hear you have to say that. you want to stop the crazy people in your party. let me ask you. don. so you look at nancy pelosi, and you're saying maybe she didn't do the best job of delivering this. however, isn't this about the president right now saying this is what i want, and then saying let's take this to the american people. let's explain to them what's in this bill, what they will benefit from by having the passage of this bill, and hopefully get the american citizenry behind it and tell their lawmakers, you have to vote for this. >> absolutely. and that's precisely what they'll say. yo, you have to vote for this, well done, alex. direct quote from alex witt. if you remember 2009, obamacare, health care had to pass, and barack obama got on the road. it was a road show, and he was met in every city by protesters, but he got out there and used the bully pulpit. he had congress, but you can't rely on majorities in congress when we're dealing with a 60-vote senate threshold. you have to sell your plan to the american people. i know joe biden watches your show so i encourage him to do that, and i encourage him that he has a young woman black asian history maker of a vice president. he has to use her. she has to get out and sell the plan, too. get out there and get in the streets and use the bully pulpit you have. guess what, republicans have a lot of things right now. they have 50 senators just like we do, but they do not have the presidency. it's the most powerful platform in the world, and the presidency and the vice presidency has to be used to its fullest extent to sell this plan to the american people. those are the folks who are going to pressure the senators to break the going to pressure to do whatever needs to be done. if you hear from those people, it tends to change minds. >> as we heard the president say, 70% of the american people are behind this. i appreciate you saying those people who are watching, that includes my mom. she will say, i wish you didn't use slang when you are on television. that's coming. stay with me. in a moment, i will talk about the national nightmare "the new york times" contends was worse than we thought. one aspect of the capitol attacks that makes it more disturbing nine months later. at philadelphia, we know what makes the perfect schmear of cream cheese. the recipe we invented over 145 years ago and me...the world's best, and possibly only, schmelier. philadelphia. schmear perfection. tonight, i'll be eating a buffalo chicken panini with extra hot sauce. tonight, i'll be eating salmon sushi with a japanese jiggly cheesecake. 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(horse neighing) elton: nas? yeah? spare a pound? what? you know, bones, shillings, lolly? lolly? bangers and mash? i'm... i'm sorry? i don't have any money. you don't look broke. elton: my rocket is skint! want your clothes to smell freshly washed you don't look broke. all day without heavy perfumes? now they can! with downy light in-wash scent beads. it has long-lasting light scent, no heavy perfumes, and no dyes. who's ready for movie night? finally, a light scent that lasts all day. new downy light, try it today! january 6 was worse than we knew, that's the title of a new editorial in "the new york times," underscoring how close the country to a full-blown constitutional crisis, not primarily because of the violence and mayhem inflicted by hundred of trump supporters but because of the actions of trump himself. my panelists back with me. david, i want to get to some details here. one particularly chilling paragraph i'm going to read, in the days before the mob descended on the capitol, a corollary attack, was playing out down the street in the white house where mr. trump, vice president mike pence and a lawyer names john eastman -- the pivotal name -- huddled in the oval office scheming to subvert the american people by using legal slight of hand. the visit was reported at the time. but a new book provides the details of his proposed six point plan. it involved mr. pence rejecting dozens of already certified electoral votes, representing tens of millions of legally cast ballots, thus allowing congress to install mr. trump in a second term. wow. a six point plan to overturn this election? how do you wrap your head around that? >> the strategy was in plain sight from the beginning. i was part of conversations with republican lawyers, constitutional scholars, election watchers about this going back to the election. it was clear that donald trump's strategy was to prevent certification, to figure out how to prevent certification and ultimately get this kicked to the house of representatives where this political action and behavior then comes in. the fascinating thing -- this is important for what we learned from this moment as a society. pretty much every lawyer, every constitutional scholar, every political lawyer would say, he can't do that. it would have happened because. they would cite the statute. what they were missing is where the law meets politics. that's what donald trump understood. the violence prevented a peaceful transition of power. but mike pence was equipped with the tools that donald trump laid to prevent certification and try to undo this election by kicking it to the house for a vote based on politics. >> wow. how chilling is the question to you, susan you first, then don. >> it's terrifying to think that's where we are. my biggest takeaway is, we said the guardrails held during the trump presidency. i'm not sure that what he has done since then has really gone beyond just cracking the pillars with basically questioning the integrity of our election process. that's where all of this -- these conversations go to and that we need to make sure that people know that there our elections are secure. it's the core of our democracy. >> 100%. >> i think it's important we remember that there are professional people, lawyers, electioneers, who are working to subvert democracy. donald trump was their avatar. there are people working to make sure not everyone has the opportunity to participate in democracy. that's why the fight goes on even without an election imminent. that's why you register voters, communicate on issues and talk to voters. that's why you retain votes and bring new people here. the marathon continues, even if there's not a compelling candidate on a ballot in the next six weeks. we have to stay vigilant. people are plotting on the other side to subvert democracy. >> ground zero texas on that one. always love seeing you on a sunday. thank you so much. it's a sunday showdown with two pigskin greats. why there's so much money riding on the result, next. every single day, we're all getting a little bit better. we're better cooks... better neighbors... hi. i've got this until you get back. better parents... and better friends. no! no! that's why comcast works around the clock constantly improving america's largest gig-speed broadband network. and just doubled the capacity here. how do things look on your end? -perfect! because we're building a better network every single day. it's a sunday showdown for the ages. tonight, bill belichick and tom brady will be facing off. brady returning to new england for the first time in a tampa bay buccaneers uniform. kathy park has the prime spot today. welcome to you. what can we expect from this matchup on the field and in the stands? >> reporter: good afternoon to you. you can expect a whole lot of excitement. the hype has been building for months, ever since this matchup was announced back in may. i can tell you, the fans are already out here now. the momentum is building. today's game is a big deal because brady is coming back as a visitor. you have a lot of fans who are torn. regardless, they are very excited about kickoff tonight. >> there goes tom brady. >> reporter: they are arguably the best coach/qb combo of all time. they won six super bowls. but that was then. >> brady's pass. >> reporter: last season, brady left the patriots for the buccaneers to win a seventh ring without his former coach. >> there's no quarterback i would rather have than tom brady. >> i have great friends there. >> reporter: brady is 67 yards shy of the nfl's all-time passing record. a title he would love to clinch tonight. even more impressive, he would do it as a man who recently celebrated his 44th birthday. >> he is the best. he is the best ever. >> reporter: fans now find themselves caught between rooting for the man who brought them so much joy and cheering on a team they have supported all their lives. >> i'm hoping the patriots will actually take tom brady down. >> i hope tampa kills the patriots. >> reporter: if they do, it won't be easy. belichick is 10-5 in games against one of his former quarterbacks. you can bet the sunday showdown is

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