colleague" letter saturday. yet. over in the senate, so far, the word is, no dice, especially from senator kyrsten sinema, who released a blistering statement saturday afternoon who called the house decision to delay the infrastructure vote, quote, inexcusable. but president biden, well, he's just fine with the delay. >> sir, do you think this could be all done by thanksgiving? >> i think it could be done by 2:27 a.m. on december -- come on! i think it will get done. plenty of time for it to be part of changing the tax code for people next year and for giving people the breaks they need. >> infrastructure negotiations weren't the only action at the capitol this week. the january 6th house select committee investigating the insurrection served 11 more subpoenas to organizers of that rally that proceeded the violence of that day. and four of trump's inner circle have until this thursday to hand over documents. the following week, they're expected to appear for depositions. select committee chair bennie thompson had a warning for those who refused to cooperate. >> the only thing i can say is, the committee will probably, to those who don't agree to come in voluntarily, we'll do criminal referrals. and let that process work out. >> now, across the street from the capitol, at the supreme court, and across the country, thousands marched for abortion rights, spurred on by outrage over attacks on reproductive health care by state legislatures, particularly that punitive and near-total abortion ban in texas that the supreme court let go into effect last month. but that's not the only troubling thing to come out of the lone star legislature. texas state republicans dropped their first proposal for a renewed redistricting map that would secure more safe seat for republicans by diminishing the voting strength of people of color, according to the president of the texas naacp, they did it by either packing them into districts already electing minority candidates of choice or cracking them by pushing them into districts dominated by conservative white voters. one true blue texan has had enough of dan patrick. the state's republican lieutenant governor. matthew dowd, who was a strategist for former president george w. bush announced his bid to run against patrick and i'll talk to matthew dowd about his run a little later in the show. meanwhile, a new damning tell-all drops on tuesday. this time, it's former white house press secretary stephanie grisham. the title, "i'll take your questions now," which is real cute when you consider that grisham held exactly zero press conferences. meanwhile, omarosa manigault newman won a legal battle over trump. he sued her claiming she violated her nondisclosure with him over her on bombshell book in 2018. >> i believe that now people can see that this type of lawsuit was clearly retaliatory and no other explanation but donald trump wanted revenge. and he did so while being a sitting president, which is unprecedented to go after his political rivals, or people who criticized him while sitting in the oval office. >> get this. not only did trump lose, he has to pay omarosa's legal bills. i hope she's not counting on getting that money back. but we begin this morning by talking about the current president and his renewed efforts to get two big infrastructure packages through congress at the same time. president biden plans to follow-up his friday trip to the capitol to bridge the divide between moderate and progressive democrats on the reconciliation deal, with travel around the country to make the case for it. but will democrats get to "yes" on reconciliation so it and the infrastructure bill can get to biden's desk. joining me now to answer that question is the chair of the progressive caucus, congressman pramila jayapal. welcome back to the sunday show and welcome back in person. thank you for being here. >> it's great to be here and great to be live, very exciting. >> so answer the question. will you get to "yes" so that both bills will get passed and to the president's desk for a signature? >> absolutely. we absolutely will. i'm totally confident of that. we will pass both bills. and i am really proud of the progressive caucus this last week, because we got the two bills back on track. the bipartisan infrastructure bill was done, it was ready. but by saying that we're not going to leave behind women and families that need real change, we're not leaving behind housing that's desperately needed across the country and not leaving behind immigrants, we were able to say, let's get them both done together. 85% of the president's agenda is in the middle back better act. and five months ago, jonathan, he came from the white house to the capitol, laid the case out to us and we can't wait to get both bills to his desk. >> you laid out climate, immigrants, child care, housing. there's one more that i missed noting. how will you be able to do all of that within the confines of what now appears to be the range in terms of the number. before it was $3.5 trillion. now it appears to be between -- to be somewhere between $1.9 and $3.2 trillion. >> at $3.5 trillion, it was still a great deal. it's still a great deal when you think about how much that is in terms of percentage of gdp. however, i understand that only 96% of house democrats and senate democrats agree on that number. i thought 100% did when it came out of the senate. but i now understand -- i want to make the case, i now understand that we'll have to get all 50 onboard. it's great that it's 96%, but i understand that we've got to get everybody onboard. we're going back to look at all of our priorities and how we get all of those things in. but i'm not going to negotiate against myself. i still don't have a number that everybody is a agreeing to. xxs the the by-product of what we put in there. we're focusing on, what is it we want to get in. our five priorities have been clear from the very beginning. and we'll speck to those priorities. we want all of them. in we have to fund them for a slightly shorter period of time, some of them can do that, and that might be one way to bring down the number. >> i mentioned statement that senator sinema put out yesterday. i want to put up on the screen more of what she said. democratic leaders have made conflicting promises that could not all be kept and have at times pretended that difference of opinion within our party did not exist, even when those disagreements were repeatedly made clear directly and publicly. canceling the infrastructure vote further erodes that trust. your reaction to that. >> we're beyond trust. we're to verify. we're all part of the democratic family we are all delivering, not on some fringe left-wing wish list. i have that, but, you know, we are delivering on the president's agenda. this is the president's agenda. all of these things are what are going to make a difference to people across this country. we need roads and bridges. i need them in my district and we need them across the country. but the reality is that people are not going to necessarily remember the road. they are going to remember if they can get back to work, because they now can afford child care. or they can take care of their families, because they now have expanded medicare benefits or health care benefits. or that their kids are going to have a place on this planet, because there is a planet, because we're taking on carbon emissions. >> i also want to put up statements that were made by two of your house colleagues, congressman gotheimer and stephanie murphy. he said, we were elected to achieve reasonable, common sense solutions for the american people, not to obstruct from the far wings. and congresswoman murphy said, while i have great respect for the speaker, i believe her decision to again delay a vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill is wrong. your reaction to your two colleagues. >> look, i think this is hard, but the reality is that we're now in a real negotiation around delivering on the president's agenda. not just 15% of the agenda getting passed, but actually the entire 100% of his agenda getting passed. and that is a good thing for the country, because we will be able to go back and for those front liners that are out there, they will be able to say, we delivered to women, to young people, to immigrants. they'll be able to say, we actually fought for this and we delivered. and that's what we're doing right now. >> one of the characterizations i saw of the president's visit to the caucus on friday is that he was the bad cop. he was the one in the room who basically told all of you, get it together this is the way it's going to be. come down off that $3.5 trillion and let's get this done. is that an accurate representation of the president's visit. >> i think he was the best cop ever. i really do. because what he was he saying? he was saying, i want to make a difference in people's lives. this is something we should all be together on. we promised this and ran on this. the house senate was delivered to us by black and brown voters, young voters, latino voters, and we now need to show them that if they give us the house, the senate, and the white house we're going to actually not just promise them things, but deliver them things that transform that are lives. and that was his message that was really important. >> last question real quick, how damaging will it be to the party, but also the president if you don't get anything done? >> we're going to get it all done. that's the reality of it. we're going to get both bills done. i believe that firmly. people who were not going to vote for the infrastructure bill because they didn't like it. it was negotiated by a very small group of senators. every single member of my caucus, every single member of my bill has said, we'll vote for that. congresswoman pramila jayapal, we could sit here all day and i could ask you all sorts of questions, but i don't have any time left. congresswoman pramila jayapal, chair of the progressive democratic caucus, thank you so much for coming in studio to the sunday show. >> thank you, jonathan. so great to see you. >> coming up, my next guest has said, the only way to save the nation and especially texas is to vote for democrats. and he maintain it. my interview with former republican and bush strategist, matthew dowd is next. nd bush st matthew dowd is next in business, setbacks change everything. so get comcast business internet and add securityedge. it helps keep your network safe by scanning for threats every 10 minutes. and unlike some cybersecurity options, this helps protect every connected device. yours, your employees' and even your customers'. so you can stay ahead. get started with a great offer and ask how you can add comcast business securityedge. plus for a limited time, ask how to get a $500 prepaid card when you upgrade. call today. this is where i have a tendency sometimes to get frustrated with democrats who i'm advocating for, who need to win every office they possibly can, especially here in texas, because it's the only way to save our population and save our republic, is to do that. but the problem is, democrats often cede the messaging ground to republicans. and what democrats have a tendency to do is talk policy points and process and republicans talk values. and in a debate like that, voters ultimately vote based on values. >> just days after the supreme court failed to strike down texas' draconian anti-abortion law, former republican strategist and adviser to former president george w. bush, matthew dowd, told my colleague nicolle wallace the only way to save the lone star state is to vote democrats into office everywhere. now, dowd is going the extra mile, throwing his hat into the ring for lieutenant governor of texas. and he's running as a democrat. joining me now is matthew dowd. he is also author of the forthcoming book, "revelations on the river." matthew, welcome back to "the sunday show," this time as a candidate for office. why did you decide that now was the time to literally put your money where your mouth is in terms of your values? >> well, thanks for having me, jonathan. i think we've all been asking ourselves the same question in that moment, which i think is the most perilous moment in our democracy in the last hundred years or 150 years at this time. after wanted on january 6th, like 9/11 and pearl harbor is burned in our memory, that was very gut punching to me about where we were and the idea that we could have a group of people sort of insurrect and i watched the personal sessions and they systemically went out of their way to hurt people. take away people's rights and hurt people. and it was not only on the choice issue of a women's right to decide, which i went to the march yesterday in austin, which was fabulous, about 30,000 people. they're openly carrying handguns without a permit. the impediments on voting rights, so all of those things, i struggled with, what can i do? i tried to speak out over the last few years about what's been coming and where we're at. and i finally decided, maybe the thing to do is spend the next 400 days telling truth about the republicans here and how they don't represent our values at all. not only texas values, but american values, like common sense and common decency and the ability to put the common good above ourselves. and i came to that conclusion that i could offer myself and speak the truth and speak for a whole group of people, jonathan, out there, who feel the exact same way. >> speaking of texas values and american values, i want to play something that lieutenant governor patrick said last month. i'm not going to characterize it. just listen to it and we'll talk about it on the other side. >> the revolution has begun. a silent revolution by the democrat party of joe biden to take over this party. you're talking about millions and millions and millions of new voters. and they will thank the democrats and biden for bringing them here. who do you think they're going to vote for? so this is trying to take over our country without firing a shot. we need every red state to send and invoke article iv, section iv of the constitution to tell the president that we are being invaded? >> matthew, i mean, that's the racist white replace theory that is out there. your reaction to dan patrick? >> well, he's my opponent, the cruel and craven dan patrick in this. i think it's so disturbing, but as you know, jonathan, incredibly dangerous. those were almost the exact same words that the mass shooter in el paso used we killed 20-plus people. almost the exact words he used in his manifesto as to why he went in and started shooting people. we are all sons, daughters, and grandsons of people who emigrated here. and many people celebrate who we are. dan patrick doesn't. dan patrick goes out of his way, time and time and time again to criticize that diversity and criticize that wholeness that we have as we unify as a community in texas. so if it was some nut on the side of the street saying this kind of stuff, we could pass them by and ignore them, but this is the lieutenant governor of texas. and for your viewers, the lieutenant governor of texas, unlike other lieutenant governors around the country, is incredibly powerful. they are elected separately from the governor, completely separately from the governor, and they run the state senate and legislative branch in austin. so any legislation that goes through, any legislation that's heard or talked about, he is in charge of it. and all of the bad things that have happened, you can put at his doorstep. all of the bad things put right at his doorstep, because he's pushed it throughout the course of this. and to me, he's a living, breathing argument of why he needs to be removed. >> and with that, matthew dowd, we'll have to leave it there. but of course, we'll have you back as this campaign unfolds. thank you very much for coming back to "the sunday show." >> thanks, jonathan. coming up, to celebrate hispanic heritage month, my one on one interview with eduardo diaz is next. h eduardo diaz is next >> tech: when you get a chip in your windshield... trust safelite. this couple was headed to the farmers market... when they got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? 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latino director, but you're the interim director of the national museum of the american latino. >> that's correct. >> for the audience that doesn't know what that exactly means, what does it mean? >> it means that in the latter case, with the museum, that i am in charge of the very beginning steps of building this new museum. the formation of a board, the beginning of the site election process. hiring a permanent founding director. those are very big tasks. >> in a sketch that i saw, a rendering of what a gallery would look like in the new museum, behind one of the cases, there was a painting or a poster that said, "we were already here." how extra is that to the message or the mission behind the new museum? >> very central. the latino community has made contributions in helping literally build this country and shape its natural culture before there was even such of a thing before the united states of america. right before the 13 colonies. we were in the southwest and in other places, what is now the united states for a long period of time before the united states was even going into anybody's eyes. so since then, we've been here. we're here now and in growing numbers and will be here for a long time to come. understanding the time frame of a latino presence in what is now the united states is critically important. >> i can only think of one other museum of a people that were here before there were even the colonies of the united states, and that is the national museum of the american indian. how much of an inspiration are you getting, so far, if at all yet, from that museum, in terms of telling the story of a people who were here before the country. >> you know, tremendous inspiration. you know, the person i report to directly is kevin goldberg. he himself is a native person. the former director of the museum that you just mentioned. you know, just as a personal aside, i had anancestry.com, so surprise, surprise, i am 50% mexican indigenous. i didn't know how much of a merge it would be, but 50% makes sense. so the notion of indiginety lives within me. so as a personal museum administrator, i want to make sure that the totality of what the latino community is, 25% of our community identifies as african descendant. 25% of our community is afro-latino. so we've obviously got to do a really good job in representing that critically important part of our community. in dealing with the latino community, you have lots of mixes and lots of nuance to deal with. but the inspiration to go deep into the history, the origin stories for me is critical. >> are the american people ready for the deeper history, the origin stories? >> we'll move forward in telling those stories. i think there's been a lot of history that's been not well researched and in some cases erased. it's really, critically important to understand what the full trajectory of our history is. we just completed not too long ago, a symposium called the other slavery, right? which looked at indian bondage in what is the united states. the enslavement of native peoples is the sort of the chartered generation of racialized slavery in what is now the united states. it predates the arrival of african slaves. but you would not know about this other slavery unless you dug deep. these are important stories that have been erased, but part of our history. so our goal is to bring these stories in ways that people can get a grip. not in blaming tone or -- it's just history. and it informs our past and our present. and also allows us to envision a future where things are post-racial, right? everybody thought that obama -- things were going to go -- we're all post-racial. guess what, not so much. i think we have a responsibility to keep pushing forward and bringing new stories and laying them out in swas that are easily understood and with all the facts and well researched and, you know, museums are story tellers. we're story tellers. we have to deploy the best exhibition designers to be able to bring those stories to life and make them accessible to people. so where should the museum go? >> we've been clear that we would like to see it on the mall, for reasons that i think everybody can appreciate. where on the mall, that's a big question, right? but i think the site selection process needs to play itself out. there are considerations about outdoor space, you know, close to public transportation. there are other issues about how are the galleries going to look or will there be an auditorium, so we need to let that process play out and make a sound decision. but the mall the the preferred general location for the museum. >> and in terms of talking about the mall, are you thinking in terms of square footage. is it important, the square footage? >> it is, but i don't think we need to say, well, you know, this museum needs to be as big as the american history museum. i think it needs to be the proper size in order to do the job. and now because digital technology has impacted a way in which museums can delay and deliver content, space doesn't become as big a factor, because you can use digital technology and digitization of objects to be able to tell stories. >> two quick questions before i let you g. one, as i mentioned, you were the interim director at the national museum of the american latino. what are the top two qualities of a permanent director? >> for this museum, one, they have to have a good understanding of the totallity of our communities. our community is black. it's asian, it's indigenous, it's european, it's gay, it's straight. it's muslim, it's catholic. we're all -- we're it all. so i think the person really needs to have a good grasp -- not that they have to be a history expert or a cultural anthropologist, but they haved to a good grip on the totality and nuance and essence of our communities and also have to be good fund-raisers. because you know, the legislation calls for the congress to support on a 50/50 shared basis the planning, design, and construction of the building, so that means the other half has to be raised through public sources. and that's a boat load of money that has to be raised. >> when people leave the new national museum of the american latino, what do you want them to come away with? >> i want them to come away with an appreciation of what we have contributed over these many, many years, right? in terms of historic and educational advancement and science and technology, and culture, in particular. you can imagine american citizen, right? so i want there to be an appreciation and the sense that, you know, what, this museum helped me round out the story of american history. latino history is american history, period. and so i want them to understand that central notion that latinos have been integral in building this country, shaping this national culture, forming its history. >> eduardo diaz, interim director of the national museum of the american latino, thank you very much. >> it's been a pleasure to be with you, john. thank you so much. coming up, lessons for the fight against voter suppression, from the life and legacy of fanny lew heymer. the author of a new book on the civil rights icon joins us next. cil virights icon joins us next. tax-smart investing, what's new? -audrey's expecting... -twins! ♪♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. this is... ♪♪ this is iowa. we just haven't been properly introduced. say hello to the place where rolling hills meets low bills. where our fields, inside and out, are always growing. and where the fun is just getting started. this is iowa. so, when are you coming to see us? ♪♪ the right to vote is being threatened because there are laws that are being cast to make it more difficult to vote so you don't vote. so in congress right now, we're saying, wait a minute, okay, so we've got to do something about putting teeth back in the voting rights act, right? but we also need to deal with the fact that we immediate to have some national standards. so there's the freedom to vote act, the john lewis voting rights act that we're pushing to pass in congress. >> in honor of national voter registration day, which was on tuesday, vice president kamala harris spoke with students at george mason university about the ongoing struggle for voting rights. but black women have been fighting that fight long before the first female vp was first born and certainly without the power and prestige of the office that the vice president occupies. fanny lou was one of those who dedicated her life to registering black americans to vote. joining me is dr. keisha blaine, historian and author of "until i am free: franny lou heymer's enduring message to america." before we get talking, let's show folks fannie lou hamer in action. >> it was the 31st of august in 1962 that 18 of us traveled 26 miles to the county courthouse in indianola to try to register to become first-class citizens. we was met in indianola by policeman, highway patrolman, and they allowed two of us in to take the literacy test at the time. after we had taken this test and started back, we was held up by the city police and the state highway patrolman and carried back to indianola, where the bus driver was charged that day with driving a bus the wrong color. >> dr. blaine, that was 57 years ago, when fannie lou hamer was testifying at the democratic convention. why is her story so relevant today? and why is her story so important for people to know? >> first, thank you so much for having me. i think fannie lou hamer's story is so important to know is because it's inspirational. it helps us to see how one individual can make a difference, despite having limited material resources. hamer had a sixth grade education. there were so many things that i think challenged her experience and today, it's very easy to come up with excuses to say why you can't be involved in the struggle for social justice. fannie lou hamer's story is an important reminder that regardless of what you have or don't have, you can stand up and call out injustice and you can demand better for the united states. >> and you know, her message was so strong and so powerful that when she testified, the president of the united states then, lyndon baines johnson, did something to try to take attention away from her. what did he do? >> he decided to hold an impromptu press conference to essentially make sure that the attention would shift from fannie lou hamer and to himself and in so doing, it underscored how much she terrified him. certainly, she knew if people heard what fannie lou hamer had to say, that they would be really angered with the experiences of what black people were enduring in the south at this time. and so fannie lou hamer terrified the president of the united states. >> you know, dr. blaine, i'm wondering, what lessons from fannie lou hamer's life could we use today, considering that the fight that he was engaged in 57 years ago is the fight we're engaged in right now. >> so many lessons. one of the lessons that really stands out to me is the power of public testimony. i think sometimes when we go through difficult experiences, it's so easy to keep it to ourselves. oftentimes, we're nervous about bringing injustices to the forefront. and what is clear, as we see in the case of the 1964 testimony is that hamer decided that speaking truth to power was really the only way that change could happen. and so i think even today, as we look out into the world and see so many injustices, it's important to speak out when we see these things, and that is certainly a lesson that i think we should remember in hamer's life. >> she formed a new party, cofounded a new party, the freedom democratic party. how long did that last? and why did she feel that forming her own party was the way to go? >> well, fannie lou hamer helped to establish the freedom democratic party only a few months before that powerful testimony she gave in atlantic city in august 1964. and that was really an effort to challenge the state's democratic party. at the time, the democratic party simply excluded black people. i'm talking about the democratic party in the state of mississippi, as was true in other parts of the south. a party would ensure that black people would be represented, that their voices would be heard, and that they would be able to participate in the political process. >> dr. keisha blaine, thank you very much for coming back to the sunday show and sharing your new book, "until i am free" about the life of fannie lou hamer. thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up in our "on the run series," after 200 years of electing white men, boston's next mayor will be a woman of color. one of the contender joins me nokes. joins me nokes. you've been taking mental health meds, and your mind is finally in a better place. except now you have uncontrollable body movements called tardive 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approaches the all-electric cadillac lyriq. it's a sunny day. nah, a stormy day. ♪ ♪ we see a close up of the grille ...an overhead shot. she drives hands free along the coast. make it palm springs. cadillac is going electric. if you want to be bold, you have to go off - script. experience the all-electric cadillac lyric. the boston we love is a city that takes care of each other. where hard work meets big dreams with grit and resilience. but for too many, during this pandemic and well before, it's been impossible to dream when you're fighting to hold on. fighting to afford to stay, fighting for our kids, fighting a system that wasn't built for us, doesn't speak our lodges, doesn't hear our voices. i'm michelle wu and i'm running for mayor to make boston a city for everyone. >> my next guest is the first asian american woman to both serve on boston city council and as city council president. and now, she's continuing on her history-making streak as one of two women of color running to be mayor of boston. it's noteworthy, because for nearly 200 years, the city with a fraught racial history has only elected white men to the position. and joining me now is boston mayoral candidate and city councillor at large, michelle wu. welcome to "the sunday show." >> good morning. thanks for having me. >> i'll ask you the question i ask everyone in the "on the run" segment. why are kids in our schools, i'm the daughter of immigrants and this moment in boston is the chance for all of us to come together and really tackle the root causes of the big challenges we were facing long before covid-19. boston is an historic city. we are a city with resources but we are a city that needs to be connected so that we can set the standard for what it means to build a community where everyone is truly included. >> you know, in the intro i talked about boston's fraught racial history. you know, the history is not terribly warm and inviting to people of color and yet the acting mayor is a black woman. you know, you're running. you're -- the person you're running against is a woman of color, black woman. is boston ready for what is about to happen come election day? >> you know, when i first ran for city council eight years ago, universally people said it would be impossible, don't bother. don't try. boston doesn't elect women, asian-american, young people and it made sense at that time. out of our 13 member council we had one woman serving, then councilor ayanna pressley. we doubled from one to two. since then it's been a rapid transform makes to see the impact on policy making, on connection with our communities when we have a reflective, representative government. boston is ready. we feel the energy and it's about making sure we are connecting that to voting and being involved in government. >> you mentioned ayanna pressley. she is now a member of congress and she endorsed you on friday, right? >> that's right. >> so how important -- how important is it to have her endorsement? >> i am so deeply honored and thrilled that we keep continuing to build our governing coalition to reflect the city of boston and the possibility that boston holds to reshape our systems. i've had the chance to serve alongside ayanna when we were both on the city council for a number of years together and to at this point partnering as she breaks down barriers and builds that pipeline of activism, organizing and truly shifting what's possible in government. so we are thrilled and we are excited to be in this home stretch with her on the team. >> and i should also point out that you also have been endorsed by senator elizabeth warren. at the end, let's say you are victorious on election day. at the end of your first term, what will be the one thing you'll be able to say that you accomplished for the city of boston? >> that we have truly connected our communities to the possibilities in city government and activism. there are a lot of big issues and we have seen during the pandemic not just a deepening and exposing of the deep racial inequities, economic inequities in our city and beyond, but also the realization that when we truly decide to confront our biggest challenges, we have the ability to make big changes and so from our housing crisis in boston to ensuring that we are strengthening and supporting our public schools to building a climate just future that will provide the foundation for jobs and equity and resilience for generations to come, boston truly has everything we need right now but we just need to connect to our communities and ensure everyone is part of this conversation and shaping our future. >> the other thing i always tell people when they come on on the run, it's kind of malpractice if you come on this segment and you tonight say what your website is. >> happy to fill that hole. we would love to get more folks involved. we are now just under a month until election day, november 2nd. so please check out our policies, plans and ways to get involved at michelleforboston.com. >> voting is something a lot of people don't do and make up excuses to not vote. what's your message to those folks for whom voting is not a tradition and might not think it's important to vote in the boston mayoral election? >> this election is about the future of our city and the fact that the decisions we make in the next three to five years will determine the opportunity and lives of the next three to five generations and i know sometimes it feels like as one person politicians come around and you might not see the impact, why bother voting but truly at the city level when you can see your elected officials face to face, when you can hold people accountable, we need everyone involved in this fight to make sure we are standing up to meet this moment and i am sure that this election cycle on november 2nd we will see the beginnings of a momentum to truly deliver change in office. >> michelle wu, candidate for mayor of boston. thank you very much for coming on "the sunday show." good luck on the campaign trail. >> thank you. thanks for having me. coming up in our next hour, trump's assault on democracy continues even if he ends up not running in 2024 and an all-star panel ready to sound off on the week's key topics. much more when we come back. ll o chicken panini with extra hot sauce. tonight, i'll be eating salmon sushi with a japanese jiggly cheesecake. (doorbell rings) jolly good. fire. (horse neighing) elton: nas? yeah? spare a pound? what? you know, bones, shillings, lolly? lolly? bangers and mash? i'm... i'm sorry? i don't have any money. you don't look broke. elton: my rocket is skint! most corrupt election in the history of our country. most corrupt election in the history of most countries to be followed by an even more glorious victory in november of 2024. we're going to have a big, big, beautiful -- >> welcome back to "the sunday show." i'm jonathan capehart. donald trump's empty threat to are you for president told more than 30,000 lies while in office, but with his latest rallies, including one scheduled in iowa next weekend, another trump presidential bid is looking increasingly likely, even as he continues to push the ultimate big lie, that the last election was somehow stolen from him. even without trump in office, it's inspired more than 400 bills that would restrict voting access in 49 states, all drafted to solve a problem that doesn't even exist. millions are still under trump's spell. in fact, pew research recently found that, get this, only 9, 9% of republicans trust the government and from the continued denial of covid-19 to the violent refusal to comply with mask and vaccine mandates, the mask radicalization is becoming more and more clear. so what's next? joining me now is daniel zigblat professor of government at harvard university and co-author of "how democracies die." and tammy patent. thank you for coming to "the sunday show." i found both of you in the story in the washington post this week with the headline as trump hints at 2024 comeback, democracy advocates fear a worst case scenario for the country. daniel, i'm going to read the quote you had in this story back to you and talk further about it. this is what got me to do this segment. we often think that what we should be waiting for is fascists and communists marching in the streets, but nowadays the ways democracies often die is through legal things at the ballot box, so things that can be legal and both antidemocratic at the same time. politicians use the letter of the law. this to me is the key thing. no matter who, daniel, no matter who runs for president on the republican side in 2024, that's the thing that we should be paying attention to. >> absolutely. i mean, one of the things because we focus on our history in the 1930s, that's the model in our mind, military coups in latin america in the '60s and '70s. we think that's how democracies die. what's apparent is democracies often die at the ballot box. politicians use the very instruments of democracy both to come to office, sometimes illicitly but then once in office consolidate power through legal means, packing the courts, manipulating election administration, tilting the playing field in elections. it becomes harder and harder for them to lose. at the end of the day if you can't vote out an incumbent, then you can't have a democracy. though our elections work just barely, we have to look forward to 2024 and look at the legal means through which a nondemocratic outcome could be achieved. >> tammy, let me have you take a listen to the democratic secretary of state for colorado, what she had to say. >> we're at code red for democracy. the very people who have been lying to the american public about 2020 are now preparing to run for secretary of state. in fact, in every swing state where there's a 2022 race we have a republican running who is either at the insurrection, a drafter of voter suppression or lying about the 2020 election results. the danger of this cannot be unstated. we need people who will oversee elections that believe in democracy in fact and the will of the voters. >> and, you know, tammy, that is -- that to me is one of the super big dangers of a lot of these bills that -- bills and laws that are going into effect, that it's not only that they're trying to block the vote or uncount votes, but now folks are running for office seemingly for the sole purpose of changing votes and election results that they don't like. >> and thank you so much for having me this morning. and i think it's really critical that we take one step back and recognize that the 2020 election was, in fact, the most secure, the most transparent, the most observed, the most lit at this gated. there were hundreds of lawsuits around the election, and it was the most audited election we've ever seen in a global pandemic. election officials found no voter fraud. the fbi found no voter fraud and the courts found no voter fraud after the election, yet as you mentioned, there are hundreds, even more than 400 bills, the national conference of state legislatures has it at more than 3100 bills around election administration as the foundation for perpetuating this narrative that the election systems lack integrity and they're being used not only to pass legislation but also to further efforts like what we saw in arizona with these extra legal reviews of election policies and procedures. and we are truly at a point in our history where we have to all pay very close attention to what's happening around us. >> you know, daniel, tucker carlson was over in hungary. i just want to play a little bit about that and then ask you about it on the other side. >> hungary is a serious and modern country that cares about its own citizens. hungary has no desire to destroy itself, nor the desire to urge crime and misery and unemployment in the cities, for that matter, no desire to commit to the human trafficking. why can't we have this in america? the answer, as you know, because our leaders don't want to have it. they benefit from the chaos and the pain of illegal immigration, when the rule of law collapses, they become more powerful. >> daniel, can you sort of explain to viewers why tucker carlson touting hungary as an example for america is really bad news. >> in all global rankings, varieties of democracy, freedom house, international rankings of democracy, hungary is no longer a democracy. it was a great case of democratic success but victor orbang came into office and had a big majority his first time around but immediately went after firing all judges in the country, redrawing election boundaries, changing electoral votes to make sure his party wouldn't lose, rewriting media regulation laws and getting his friends to buy up all the national media. as a result of this, the next time election came around, he won office again because the election field had been so tilted in his favor. so increasingly it's harder and harder for viktor orban to be voted out of the office. to have the united states model itself after a country that is a democracy in free fall is absolutely outrageous. i would add to tucker carlson's point, majority of americans are very democratic and it's an angry minority that wants to establish itself in rule. >> and you know, tammy, just -- i hear what you're saying, daniel. a majority of americans, you know, favor immigration. put that to the side. but there's this poll from prri that is just breath taking for me. believe the 2020 election was stolen from trump. 71% of republicans polled said that they believe that the 2020 election was stolen from donald trump. how on earth, tammy, can we -- well, let me rephrase the question. will we get through the 2024 presidential election when we've got more than an overwhelming majority of the opposing party that is going to go into that election thinking that the previous one was stolen and that the one that they're participating in 20 this is already stolen? >> this is absolutely setting the playbook for the future. it didn't begin in 2020. i would argue that it began in 2016 with then candidate trump saying that the elections were rigged and then even after he won calling into question the legitimacy of his win. so this is something that we're going to be dealing with for the next few years unless and until people start telling the truth. we have a situation where these lies and these falsehoods and the misinformation is metastasizing across the country. these extra legal efforts are cropping up in new states outside of arizona, texas, michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania where they're taking this narrative of a stolen election and using it to further their political gains in order to drive up donations and funding of their political party and we know that for many individuals they're claiming that they're doing this because it all has to do with voter confidence, but let's think about that for a moment. the only thing that will truly give that somewhat rabid minority confidence in the election is if we overturn a free and fair election that every level of our government has validated and said was true and accurate. and yet we have all of these activities going forward and we now have a major political party that is articulating that the only way they could lose is if there is fraud. so it takes away any kind of responsibility, any kind of accountability for their actions and it's truly an undermining of all of our democratic norms and institutions and what we have is a situation, whether it's tucker carlson or the former president where facts don't matter if people want to glom on, for lack of a better term, what they want to hear. and what they want to hear is that their candidate didn't lose. no one ever wants to hear that their candidate lost, but we've found ourselves in a situation where it's being leveraged to truly crack away at the fissure of our democracy and i think the last few years have demonstrated the from guilt of the democracy that we have often and i think many have taken for granted and it's really kind of a clarion call for all of us to remember to make sure we're registered to vote, to vote in those local elections like the mayoral election in boston and your city council races and your state races and that's where they're taking place and we need to make sure that those who are currently elected are held accountable and asked why they are continuing to perpetuate this mis and disinformation. our foreign adversaries are sitting back all around the globe, the antidemocratic forces, we've made their work very easy for them and we need to stand up and stand together and make sure that we move forward in a way that reinforces the things we lay bear and that we make things better rather than continuing to feed this beast and give oxygen to the lies and misinformation. >> and, daniel, last word to you in 30 seconds or less. you wrote the book. >> howie:-- "how democracies die." is it too late to stop it? >> absolutely not. a stolen election in 20 this is the biggest threat. one thing i can encourage your voters to do is look at the electoral app. if we reform that and there are bills in congress to do this, we can save ourselves. i think there's still time, but it's getting very desperate. >> daniel ziblatt, tammy patrick, thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." coming up, we have topics galore and one amazing panel to sound off on all of it, including the return of snl. >> the infrastructure bill. it's been delayed indefinitely so i guess we'll just cross that bridge when it collapses on top of us. oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? sorry? well, since you asked. it finds discounts and policy recommendations, so you only pay for what you need. limu, you're an animal! who's got the bird legs now? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ fine, no one leaves the table until your finished. fine, we'll sleep here. ♪♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft. for the win win. did you know that your clothes can actually attract pet hair? 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>> i think time will only tell. one thing that is important is you do have positive body language from most democrats right now. you've had the president come to capitol hill. a lot of people wonder is he going to use the bully pulpit, is he going to force democrats to come together on this bipartisan infrastructure package? he didn't. he basically was a rallying cry around both the infrastructure as well as the reconciliation package. right now there isn't a time line that we now have. the speaker has said that she wants bipartisan infrastructure, the bill to pass by the end of the month because that's when the service transportation authorization goes until. so that's kind of the next deadline. it's not as if there is this kind of market forcing mechanism like we have with government funding and the debt ceiling where there are these hard and fast limits. we could see this slip until october, november, maybe even december. >> yeah. because i'm sitting here thinking how y'all going to get this done when the debt ceiling fight is coming up fast? i mean, i know treasury secretary janet yellen said the x date when the united states is going to crash into the debt ceiling is october 18th, but mark my words, don't be surprised if that date moves up a little bit. tara, the one thing that i find really interesting about all of this discussion, about the two bills and the fighting -- the negotiating between the democrats about what to do is the incredible silence of the republicans in all of this. unbelievable silence. what, they don't care about roads and bridges? what are they up to, tara? >> well, jonathan, i've got news for you, the democrats are fighting. and this is, you know, a fight that i know the white house does not want. this doesn't look good for them and republicans are sitting back and watching this unfold. they're allowing this democratic circular firing squad go on and they're saying, we'll let them destroy themselves. we don't need to do anything here. so, you know, it's a political axiom. don't get involved in that political fight when your enemy is destroying themselves. i think this is what the republicans are doing though. don't think they're just sitting back and drinking their scotch at the capitol hill club. they are definitely strategizing on how to capitalize on this. take it from me, i spent 27 years in the republican party. the republicans are better at messaging their opposition than democrats are in selling their message for what they're actually fighting for. so this is a word of caution to my democratic friends out there that this fight that's going on does not help them and it does not help them going into the mid term elections. they need to have a legislative win on the books going into the mid terms because if they don't, republicans will go after them and say these guys were in charge, they couldn't legislate. if they pass something in the reconciliation bill that was too big, too large, republicans will call it a tax and spend liberal policy. they will try to scare the bejesus out of people in swing districts. the brinksmanship, this is something the more senior democrats will understand. i don't know if the progressive wing actually realizes the implications of what they're doing long term. >> huh. that's interesting. joan, i was about to ask you because i'm taking the opposite view. i think the progressives as represented by congresswoman jayapal who was here earlier to tara's point, they're selling their message for what they're fighting for and they're wrapping it in. if you listen to the language, congresswoman jayapal, this is the president's agenda. this is not some fringe thing. this is what the president wants. this is what the president campaigned on so i would love forany kind of pushback or clapback you might have on what tara said in terms of how democrats are messaging what they're trying to do. >> well, i think tara's absolutely right about the history here, jonathan. democrats tend to step all over their message, they get involved in process, they stick too much on is it 3.5 trillion, a number game. but i'm hearing what you're hearing. i'm hearing congresswoman jayapal very clear about what's in the bill. this bill is for child care to help people get back to work. this bill is for elder care to keep elderly people in their homes and reduce what is a growing crisis as baby boomers age into that demographic. it does contain some climate change mitigation which the infrastructure bill does not and these things all poll incredibly well. as long as they're talking about it in terms of what it's actually going to do, i think they're in a better position than if they're just talking about it's reconciliation, it's social spending because we are woefully under invested in all of these programs over the last 40 years. we haven't had anything since the great society that really took off except for obamacare. i should not leave that out. that really took on the social needs in a concrete way. and i think it's -- i think it's time. the other thing is, you know, if republicans want to run around and lie that they care about deficits and debts, it's pretty laughable. it's pretty easy to prove that they passed a $2 trillion tax cut for the wealthiest and didn't give a damn about what it did to the deficit. deficits really matter. we have a democrat in the white house and democrats have to get tougher about fighting back. >> i'm going to start this particular discussion now with you to get the hard facts on this and then we're going to talk about it when we come back from a break, but there's a headline out of yahoo! from senator susan collins where she called the texas abortion ban inhumane and said she's working on a bipartisan bill to make roe v. wade the law of the land. how successful is she going to be at that effort? has she actually started that process or is this just talking out loud? >> yes, the reporting there is basically senator collins saying she's working on a bipartisan manner with a couple of democrats as well as republicans, there's not a lot of details. it has said she opposes the bill that went through the house taking it too far. it doesn't justify roe v. wade. this goes back to something you're talking about all the time. the filibuster. there are not 10 republicans who are supportive of codifying roe v. wade. she's trying to show she wants to be a leader here but it's hard to see how she's going to garner enough support to make whatever she's working on become law. >> we're going to talk more about this effort when we come back from the break. don't go anywhere. panel is sticking around and like i said, we're going to continue this conversation about senator collins next. atchy musi♪ >> tech vo: this couple counts on their suv... as they travel for their small business. so when they got a chip in their windshield... they brought it to safelite... for a same-day in-shop repair. we repaired the chip right away. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech vo: plus, to protect their glass, we installed new wipers too. that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ every single day, we're all getting a little bit better. we're better cooks... better neighbors... hi. i've got this until you get back. better parents... and better friends. no! no! that's why comcast works around the clock constantly improving america's largest gig-speed broadband network. and just doubled the capacity here. how do things look on your end? -perfect! because we're building a better network every single day. we're back with my panel as we sound off on the biggest news of the week. okay, tara and joan. let's talk about senator collins's concern about roe v. wade. joan, i mean, anna gave us the lay of the land, the possibility of protecting roe v. wade in law is a very high hill. your reaction to the senator's concern and her efforts at trying to codify it. >> oh, she's always concerned. you know, we can always count on her to be concerned and then never do anything effective. so she had a chance to block both breath kavanaugh and amy coney barrett from the supreme court. and amy coney barrett. she insisted nobody would vote to overturn roe v. wade. allowing the texas ban to go into effect will overturn roe v. wade. we'll see if the court comes back to t. she's getting jittery. she's concerned. maybe they want to overturn roe v. wade. there's no mechanism for her to do this while you have the filibuster in place. it would get two, maybe three republicans. it's just -- it's going no place. >> right. tara, i was going to ask you, can susan collins -- can senator collins find ten republican colleagues to help get it over the filibuster so that it can have a debate and pass at a simple majority? >> no. susan collins is the queen of fecklessness when it comes to legislating and you've seen that over and over again. to joan's point, how many times have you heard susan collins talk about how deeply troubled she is about something? it's become a running joke. i'm surprised "saturday night live" hasn't done anything on that yet. she just won re-election. she has six more years. she doesn't have to worry about another election for quite some time. she says things to look like she's doing something, but it's hollow. however you feel about the abortion issue, she had a chance to make a difference at the time when joan talked about this, with amy coney barrett and with particularly brett kavanaugh. she was a deciding vote there with brett kavanaugh and decided to acquiesce to the larger group and -- of republicans. she's never there. she tries to become the -- this facade of being the female john mccain but has she actually done anything, say anything? no. so i wouldn't hold my breath. susan collins is not going to be the heroine who sweeps in to save roe v. wade. >> the word filibuster has come up a few times, anna. you brought it up first. i'm going to bring up a column that my washington post columnist colleague donna edwards, the former congresswoman from maryland wrote about the filibuster. mitch mcconnell said no republican would vote to cast a vote for the debt ceiling. this is to raise the debt ceiling. this despicable move can give democrats exactly the ammunition they need, a genuine defensible justification for eliminating the filibuster. they should call his bluff, kill the filibuster, raise the debt ceiling to pay our bills, fund the u.s. government. i am all for what congresswoman edwards has to say there. what's the likelihood that senate majority leader chuck schumer is going to follow that advice, anna? >> very unpopular in this crowd. the filibuster is going nowhere, right? it is very, very popular, i should say, on the left to think of different areas and where that might be the one thing that is going to put democrats over the edge, over the hump here on getting rid of the filibuster. whether it's joe manchin, kyrsten sinema and there are other democrats that aren't as publicly vocal. i have a hard time seeing the debt ceiling being that key issue that really motivate the base has moved senate democrats any way, shape or form that this is the time and now is going to be it. i think the debt ceiling is something most americans probably don't understand is going to be the issue to motivate them to take this on. >> i know all about the debt ceiling and i'll probably talk about it at another point, but you don't think that the risk of default for the first time in the history of the united states where the markets will crash, interest rates will explode, that that is not enough of a motivating factor for those democrats hiding behind joe manchin and kyrsten sinema to say, we need to do this. >> this happened in 2011. both business groups as well as a lot of others saying we cannot be playing games here, but at the same time we do have 2 1/2 weeks and in congressional time, that is a long time. the senate can move as fast as it wants t. can suspend a lot of rules. the real question is when the democrats stop this theoretical argument that they stop saving themselves. oftentimes this is bipartisan. but mitch mcconnell has laid out for the past several months his case for this, that he is not going to help. it's hard to see him cave on this. the real question is what does chuck schumer do. there are ways they can raise the debt limit and it really is a question of when not if at this point. >> tara, we've got to go to break but i have to ask you as the former republican here on the panel, so, you know, i'm sure you know senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. if the shoe were on the other foot would mitch mcconnell get his caucus in line and get rid of the filibuster to do what he wants to do? >> hell, yes, he would. of course, he's done it every time. however you feel about mitch mcconnell, he is the pitome of the using political brinksmanship and getting what he wants. than brought up 2011. i was there the last time ten years ago. the difference is you had more sane republicans that understood they could play politics a little bit but they weren't going to actually tank the economy and do all of that. this time around we're not dealing with the same type of republicans although mitch mcconnell understands how these things work. if he says he's going to do it, this is the same guy that did not bring merrick garland up for a vote after abstaining how many times? they don't worry about hypocrisy. they know the american voter's memory is very short. believe mitch mcconnell when he says he's not going to move on this unless the business interests that fund a lot of these republicans give them a hard time and they realize they might pay the political price for it. don't expect them to help democrats at all. >> this totally reminds me of a scene out of "mahogany." >> post the meme, jonathan, post the meme. >> i will. it involves a car taking photos while -- anyway, we've got to take a break. up next we take a peek at the other sunday shows. that's next. repair toothpaste, we can help actively repair enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. 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[whispering] it's grilled cheese o'clock. we have to be able to repair the enamel on a daily basis. with pronamel repair toothpaste, we can help actively repair enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. 3.5 trillion should be a minimum. i expect it has to be give and take. >> they failed to bring a virtual vote this week. as they bring the biggest news from the other sunday shows. i'm having a hard time picking. how about -- well, let's go to senator john bore raso who is on fox news on sunday. have a listen to what he has to say. >> what we're seeing is like watching an episode of the twilight zone. i thought joe biden went to the hill on friday to try to get that bipartisan infrastructure bill passed and instead he surrendered to the radical wing of his party and now you have this big government socialism reckless spending bill being basically used to hold hostage the things that the american people want, roads, bridges, highways. all of those things. now we're at a point where the president is weak and really bernie sanders, the far left democrats are driving the bus and joe biden is just along for the ride. >> joan, congresswoman jayapal was here. she's a progressive like senator sanders is a progressive and she rightly makes the point, this is the president's agenda. this is not some far left radical thing. the president ran on this. your reaction to senator bourasso. >> it's ridiculous. this is the president's agenda. he went over there to express his support for what congresswoman jayapal and senator sanders are doing. the elements, of child care, elder care, they polled incredibly well. they polled better than infrastructure spending does actually, elements of them. it's a complete distortion that the american people only want what's in the infrastructure bill, they don't want this big socialist spending, which it's not and somehow joe biden is being weak. he went over there. it was a show of strength. i think he also told the progressives that they are going to have to compromise a little on the top line number. like he was there to support their push to keep the bills linked. that was his promise. that was pelosi's promise. that was leader schumer's promise as well. >> speaking of senator sanders, let's have a listen to what he had to say on "meet the press." i'm going to ask you about it on the other side, anna. >> senator manchin has been talking about his number was 1.5 trillion. that's fine. that's a good negotiating start. manchin has also said he wants it paid for. i want it paid for. and you can pay for it with the $3.5 trillion bill by demanding that the wealthiest people in large corporations start paying their fair share of taxes. >> so, anna, how big of a fight in the end is this going to be in terms of taxes and paying for -- paying for it by taxing the wealthiest? >> yeah, i mean, i think you have senator sanders and frankly a lot of the democrats feel not only is it good policy, it's good politics. i think this is going to be a huge issue for democrats. how do you get joe manchin and some of the other moderates to support it, but i expect some kind of a tax increase here. i think the bigger thing probably is the size, the top line number trying to find a way forward in terms of where they can actually come together here. this was a big week as you said for the progressives, for congresswoman jayapal. now the rubber meets the road. they're going to have to find some way to compromise and that's where it gets pivotal. >> speaking of congresswoman jayapal and something that you were saying earlier on in these segments, tara, let's play what congresswoman jayapal said on this show about what they stand for. >> i am just really proud of the progressive caucus this last week because we got the two bills back on track. the bipartisan infrastructure bill obviously was done. it was ready. but by saying we're not going to leave behind women and families who need child care and paid leave, we're not leaving behind the climate crisis and real action on that, we're not leaving behind housing that is desperately needed across the country and we're not leaving behind immigrants, we actually were able to say, let's get them both done together. >> and so, tara, i mean, she just laid out five areas of things they want to do with this bill. just from that clip alone, does she meet your standard of how democrats should be talking about messaging what they're trying to accomplish? >> well, that's wonderful. she's a better voice or advocate for these things, but what did i say earlier in the show? i said exactly what senator bourasso said on fox news sunday and i hadn't even seen that clip yet. i predicted this. this is what the republicans are going to hammer home, and i'm telling you that they are better at doing it because they are unified in doing this. god bless my progressive friends here, but they don't win swing districts. i know john said what's in this bill is popular, but that's because there hasn't been a push back on how to fund this, if taxes are going up. it sounds all lovely when you lay it out that way but again the devil is in the details. that's why when the moderate democrats were in the swing districts that are up for re-election next year, very concerned about the way this reconciliation bill is being put forward. you know, potentially tanking infrastructure, which is good for everyone, which produces hard jobs where people can point to bringing home the bacon to their districts. those are the things that are easier to run on in those swing districts that will make or break the balance of power in the house. that's why the moderate democrats in the house are pretty upset with what happened on friday and pretty shocked that joe biden has decided to give more fuel to the progressives tactics here as opposed to telling them, listen, guys, this is bigger than just this bill. so, yeah, you have a better face on this but i'm telling you the republicans are going to hammer this home. >> they've been saying socialism. >> and it works. >> sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. but i think we have to say there are a lot of progressives who are -- who support both bills. katie porter is a front line member. she's in a very tough orange county district. she supports reconciliation. there are plenty of people who support reconciliation, tying these things together. they're going to have to compromise on the number but these programs are popular. i'm not that impressed by republicans messaging these days. maybe i'll be scared next november, tara. maybe you'll have to hold my hand. for now i think they're doing the right thing. i look forward to seeing them continue to be strong and lead the way on this agenda. >> democrats lost seats in 2020, a lot of them, and it was they did not vote -- the american people did not vote joe biden into office based on a policy agenda. that is contrary to what i know a lot of democrats think there is a mandate. there has not been a policy mandate which is why you're seeing what's happening in virginia as a bell weather in the virginia governor's race the way the republicans are running there. we cannot ignore the political dynamics here with this, and i think the progressives are overstepping their hand as far as this mandate for this big, you know, overhaul basically of our social safety net in reconciliation at the potential expense of a bipartisan 69 vote passed bipartisan infrastructure bill that is actually good for everyone. >> that bill will pass. both bills will pass. >> i first was hopeful. now i'm scared to death. tara, joan, anna, thank you all very much. thank you for being -- come being back to "the sunday show." up next, my bye line and a tribute to the lives lost to covid. as someone who resembles someone else... i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car 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away inspired, awed, angry, enlightened by their expertise, or what they have shared about themselves. for someone to share themselves like that with me is an incredible gift. but as i walked by the washington monument one day last week, tears welled up in my eyes as i was reminded of how many stories won't be heard, how many people won't be known, because of covid-19. in america, remember, is a stunning public art installation from maryland that blankets 20 acres of grassy land across from the washington monument with small white flags. each one in the staggering display representing a life lost to covid-19. no matter where you stand, no matter how hard you try, you can't see them all. many of the flags are blank, but some of them bear messages from the loved ones of the dead. heartbreaking missives that remind you there's a person behind that flag, behind the grim parade of death fluttering all around you. when i first visited the memorial on september 17th, the first day of the exhibition, there were 670,032 flags. when i walked by there thursday morning, 17 days later, the tally of the dead had increased by 18,213. later that day, the number ticked above 690,000. on friday, the american death toll topped 700,000. almost double the 400,000 buried at arlington national cemetery just two miles away. it's more than the 675,000 americans who died in the influenza pandemic of 1918 and 1919. so many of them would still be alive if donald trump hadn't politicized the pandemic response. so many hof them would still be alive if they had heeded the warnings. so many of them would still be alive if they had gotten the vaccine. you have until sunset today to see and experience in america remember. to walk through those rows of white flags is to come face-to-face with our collective grief. don't add to our national trauma. if you haven't gotten the vaccine, please, for your loved ones and your community, go get vaccinated. i'm jonathan capehart, and this has been the sunday show. and into the driver's seat. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ got a couple of bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. what do you say we see what this bird can do? woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. looks like we're walking, kid. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new? -audrey's expecting... -twins! ♪♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. i am robert strickler. i've been involved in communications in the media for 45 years. i've been taking prevagen on a regular basis for at least eight years. for me, the greatest benefit over the years has been that prevagen seems to help me recall things and also think more clearly. and i enthusiastically recommend prevagen. it has helped me an awful lot. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. on ancestry i discovered more about my great-great-grandfather baptiste caretto. ancestry threads all of the little facts together into a narrative so you get to feel like you're walking the same path they did. want your clothes to smell freshly washed together into a narrative so you get to feel like all day without heavy perfumes? try new downy light in-wash scent beads. it has long-lasting light scent, no heavy perfumes, and no dyes. finally, a light scent that lasts all day. new downy light! let me get this straight. you've got an a.i. strategy to deliver a better customer experience, that will help us retain our customers and even grow our business? how much is this going to cost? here's the figure. 59. 59 million? no, five9. as in five9 intelligent cloud contact center. they won't just power our transformation. they'll fund our transformation. yes, yes! exactly! what are you waiting for? ♪ ♪ and a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york, welcome, everyone. it is just about high noon here in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. glad to have you here with alex witt reports. we begin with a vow from leading democrats that president biden's biggest legislative priorities will cross the finish line in some form despite the political wrangling over how to get there. on capitol hill this morning, new insight into where things stand with the democrats' reconciliation bill as moderates negotiate to reduce the $3.5 trillion price tag. progressives are seemingly open to the idea of a smaller number, though refusing to say how low they would be willing to go. >> have you accepted the fact that it's not going to be $3.5 trillion? >> chuck, that is -- by the way, that is not my understanding of what he said. what he said is there's going to have to be give and take on both sides. i'm not clear that he did bring forth a specific number. >> meantime, speaker nancy pelosi setting a new deadline for a vote on bipartisan infrastructure in a letter saying her caucus has until the end of this-month to pass that bill. are the speaker and the white house on the same page? the biden administration appeared not as concerned with the timeline. >> we don't have a timeframe on it. this is just about delivering and making sure that we

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