repoing in bob woodward and robe costa's book. he waso fearful trump may spark a war with china he made secret cls to chinese counterparts to calm tensions. here was general mill's first public resnse to that reporting day. >> wh respect to e chinese calls, i routinely cmunicad with myounterpa, general lee,ith knowlge and coordinati of cilian oversit. i am specifillyirecte t communicate with the chinese b depament o defense guidance, e policy dialogue system these military to military communications at th highest level are critical for the security of the united ates t de-conflict military actions, nagerisis, prevent war between gat powers thaare armed with the rld'sost adliest weapons. e specific ppose of the octor and january calls were to generated by concerning intelligce which causedso beeve t chinese were worri abt an attac onhem bthe united stes. iknow, i am certain that president trump d not iend to attac the chine, and it is my directe respoibility and it was my directed responsibility by the secretary to convey that intent to the chinese. my task at that time was to de-escalate. my message again was consistent. stay calm, steady, a de-escalate. we are not going to attack you. >> milley also stressed unequivocal resolve to his oath as military leader, insisting he is loyal to his country, not to anyone political agenda. >> my loyaltyo this nation, its people, and the constitution hasn't changed and will never change as long as i have a breath to give. my loyal is absolute. d i will not turn my back on the fallen. my oath is to support the constitution of the united states of america against all enemies, foreign and domestic. i will never turn my back on that oath. i firmly believe in civilian control of the military as a bedrock principle essential to the alth of this republic, and committedo ensuring the military stays car of domestic politics. >> mh of today's testimony focused on u.s. troop withdrawal from afghanistan in late august and early september and the administration, top officials are empowered, encouraged to speak their minds without fear of retribution. the picture that emerged was complicated. the current biden administratn admitted it was caught guard on every front by the swift 11 day collapse of afghanistan's military and gernment which ultimately surrendered to the taliban. one of the head linings was a seeming contradiction, officials acknowledging they advised president biden against withdrawing troops from afghanistan, despite public denial that he to his knowdge was counselled to leave a small residual force behind. what amounted to defense of the president's authority as the country's commander in chief, general milley stressed biden was under no obligation to agree with recommendations from military advisers and issued forcefulesponse askedy republican senat tom cotton why he hadn't resigned after biden declined to take his advice. watch. >> senator, as a senior military officer, resigning is a really serious thing, it is a political act, i i am resigning in protest. my job is to provide advice. my responsibility is to provide legal voice or best military advice to the president and that's my legal requirement, that's what the law is. the preside doesn't have to agree with that advice, doesn't have to make those decisions just because we're gerals and it would be an incredible act of political defiance for a commissioned officer to just resign because my advice was not taken. this country doesn't want generals figuring out what orders we're going to accept and do or not. that's not our job. the principle in control of the military is absolute, critical to thisrepublic in addition to that from a personal standpoint, my dad didn't get a choice to resn at o jima, those kids a abbey gate didn't get a chance to resign. >> we startoday withome of our most favorite reporters and friends. pentagon correspondent courtney kube joins us and former top state department official and msnbc political analyst rick stgel, a coauthor of the new book peril. robert costa. let me play the line of questioning about whether or not he cooperated with you and your co-ahor, b woodward. >> did you talk to bob woodward robert costa t theirook peril? >> woodward yes, costa, no. >> did you take to carol leona and flil rucker for the book can i fix it? >> yes. >> did you talk to michael benlder for his book, frankly we did when the election inside story of how trump lost? >> yes. >> and were you accurately represented in these books? >> i haven't read any of the books so i don't know. i have seen press reporting of it. i haven't read the book. >> let's have you read the books and let us know if you are accurately portrayed. >> marsha blackburn. robert costa, your reaction? >> it is important to understand the context of our reporting. when you look at the story in "peril" it is a story of chairman milley countering a president he believes is in mental decline, a president who in november of 2020 goes outside of the usual channels to scribble a memo on withdrawal from afghanistan. at the same time, there's all this chatter and intelligence about china and his communication, chairman milley, based on reporting tells others can be the seeds of war. so in october, days before the election, then again january 8th, makes these calls to china. as our book shows, they're not isolated calls, they're calls made on a back channel to try to de-escalate the situation during a dangerous transition period and chairman milley today got to tell his side of the story under oath and our reporting tries to tell the whole story of the transition, including chairman milley's part. >> one of the more remarkable things in the book is what reads like a transcript from a call between general milley and speaker pelosi. i want to play general milley's comments today on that passage. >> later that same day on 8 january, speaker of the house pelosi called me to inquire of the president's ability to launch nuclear weapons. i sought to assure her that nuclear launch is governed by a very specific and deliberate process. she was concerned and made very various personal references characterizing the president. i explained to her that the president is the sole nuclear launch authority and he doesn't launch them alone and that i am not qualified to determine the mental health of the president of the united states. i immediately informed acting secretary of defense miller of speaker pelosi's phone call. at no time was i attempting to change or influence the process, usurp authority, or insert myself in the chain of command. but i am expected, i am required to give my advice and ensure that the president is fully informed on military matters. >> what's extraordinary, the chairman of the joint chiefs didn't walk away from any of the really amounting to most startling passages and exchanges and moments that you report on in your book. i wonder your thoughts on hearing that. >> it is very important that word you just used, nicole, extraordinary. calls between military leaders can be routine on private secret back channel lines. these are calls that are not made public. but it is important to note this was a crisis moment based on o reporting, national security emergency. the speaker of the house of the house of representatives second in line to the presidency calling the senior military officer in the united states two days after an insurrection, anything but routine. saying to chairman milley, we needo make sure, you need to make sure that the nuclear arsenal is under control and milley assures her that he will make sure that happens based on our transcript andur reporting that we found and you see milley calling in people to his office from the mmcc, national misdemeanor command center, going over procedures and saying whatever happens, make sure you follow procedure and i'm on the net. an extraordinary moment to have the speaker of the house so alarmed and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff feeling compelled to make sure officers in charge of the nuclear arsenal at that time are fully aware of procedures. it goes back to president trump, driven by his conduct and what happened on january 6th. this was not some kind of stray thing, all driven by the president at the time. >> courtney kube, you talk to the most senior military leaders in this country, most of them traditionally view it as part of their job, that they're at their core public servants, so articulating, explaining what they're doing to protect the country is part of their job. but it was, i hate to use the word extraordinary, it was rare to hear the chairman not cop to put sort of speak openly about cooperating with the three books. they paint a devastating portrait of the last president, donald trump. >> yeah. he was asked under oath. didn't have a choice. he was asked about each specific book. i agree with the word you're using, a remarkable moment. that was one of several times today when i was wide eyed at things general milley was saying. another time he said, he called the war a strategic failure and people have been ever since the president announced the u.s. was leaving afghanistan, ever since the chaotic withdrawal in august, tre's been a lot of talk about whether t u.s. lost the war, what happened in afghanistan, with historians, how they would see this war. to have the chairman of the joint chiefs, senior military viser to the president of the united states sit in uniform, tell the senate that it was a sttegic failure, and also call the noncombata evacuation a strategic failure becausehe enemy he as he called it, the taliban are in kabul, thawas a really amazing moment ias surprised by. i was also really surprised by the acknowledgment by general milley and general mckenzie when they admitted what we've all reported for months now, that th top military advised president biden toeep troops in afghanistan earlier this year. his decision, of course, he commander in chief, if there's a civilian control of military, he made t decision to withdraw all u.s. troops. people have been reporting, us included, that they recommended to keep troops there, but hadn't heard any of them say that. it is very unusual for generals, general officers, admirals, senior military leaders to openly conadict a sitting commander in chief. there were several moments today that were just remarkable, nicole. >> tell me more. what does that say? does it say that everyone involved is an adult and there's confidence in the relationship? what does it say? >> i think we will see wha happens with the relationship because the reality is there are -- president biden was vice president biden under president obama who had a tense relationship at times with the pentagon and the u.s. military and we've already seen that president biden, he has very strong opinion on military presence overseas. we have seen he made the decision against the military leadership recommendations to pu troop out of afghanistan. will this lead to a more open relationship, lea to more tension between the pentagon and white house as we saw under the obama administration, i rlly don't know what's going to happen. i can tell you, the way general milley and general mckenzie threaded the needle, kept saying we aren't talking about advise given to president, but we ll say the u.s. should have maintained troops there. usually all we get is we're not talking about our advice to the president. they went a step further today, definitely outsidehe norm of what we usually hear from military leaders. >> rick, let me show viewers that may not have been watching this all day like we all were what republicans did with that. they sought t eloit that. th is tom cotn. up through 31 aust,here's no intel assessmen says the vernment will collapse and litary will collapse in 11 days that i am aware of. i read i think pretty much all of them. >> there was a range of possibilies we addressed. >> never with an immediate collapse of the government. >> we certainly did not plan against collapse of the government in 11 days. >> let me show you one more and talk about them in total. this is tom cotton pressing secretary of defense austin. >> secretary austin, president biden last month in an interview with george stephanopoulos said no military leader advised him to leave a smallroop presenc in afghanistan. ishat true? >> senator cott, i believe that, well, first of all i know the president to be an honest d forthright m. >> it is a simple question, secretary austin. he said no senior military adviser advised him to leave a small troop prence behind. is that true, did these recommendations get to the president personally? >> their inp was received by the president and considered by the psident for sure. >> rick, your thoughts about what we witnessed today? >> well, it was remarkable i'll tell you why. it was a civics lesson, how a small republican government conducts itself. you would never seen in a million years generals testifying in china or russia about advice they gave the commander in chief, the fact that the commander in chief didn't take it, the fact that they made judgments in error, the fact that they were strategic failures in their mission. i thought it was extraordinary and showing how it works. i don't think it is worth watching to watch the grandstanding of some republican senators. as you know, nicolle, first rule in washington when you get criticized for cooperating with bob woodward, it is because people are jealous bob woodward didn't call them. that's how awkward it is. you saw tha on display as well. >> you mentioned civics, there was bipartisan criticism for this administration both for the evacuation ofmericans and of our allies. senar bmentha had some of the sharpest criticism, senor kaine, stalwart from the biden administration. you're right, republicans sought to weaponizehe failures there i wonder what you think happens next. there were calls to learn all the lessons from the 20 year war. washington has a hard time remembering what haened yesterday let alone the last 20 years. where do you think today put us in terms of path to have an honest, bipartisan examination of the last0 years under three presidents oroes this get churned up by the next crisis. we have another crisis on the horizon with a possible government shutdown. >> i think the latter. i wish we would take the wise advice to look at this. i think the democratic senators that opposed what biden did show their forthrightness, true bipartisanship. you didn't see that happening very often when donald trump was president but i do think that the short term outcome is that president biden, the military, everybody will be a little more careful now in the future. they'll look at the unintended consequences of what they're doing and i think also the military folks to a man wit a hammer, everything looks like a nail. military folks always want to have more military in a given situation, always think they're turning a corner. they have to think we have to be able to deler bad news to the president. >> i want to come back to you, rort costa, and courtney kube. when you book came out, i am not sureow much spilled into the public, there was a lot of consternation, mley is being called to resign, conservatives called him a traitor. all of that seemed to be calmed down by a combination of the context he gave, by strong defenses from people like john bolton and other republicans that were in the room if you will. i wonder what condition you think general milley's job is in among republicans and this democratic administration? nicolle, i would urge people to re the full context in the book. page 129, for example, in "peril." this exchang is so important for the milley part of the story, what milley testified today about. when he talked to the chinese on october 30th, 2020, and thi idea of tipping off china, as our book shows, our reporting, deep reporting shows it was not in any way a tip-off of china. the next three or four paragraphs that continue the conversation which i hope get reported more, that full conversation, show exactly what he testified under oath toy, that he will have conversations with the chinese if anything escalates in terms of war,here will be phone calls, there will be mement on the seas, in the air. this is how it works in wartime. was a way of de-escating tension days before an election wh there was intelligence and a belief on the chinese side based on the u.s. assessment that there coulde a wag the dog. january 8th, r book details milley reading in, briefing national security agency director cia director gina haspel, members of the joint chiefs of staff. as milley testified, updating members of the civilian command. our book shows him briefing all these people after making these calls. the contexts so important in reporting, in politics, in life. >> and in our coverage, courtney kube, i raise it because of what's happening today, republicans are likely to use the revelation and testimony against the president about advice about afghanistan. we should point out two things. the person that ran at the top r president was removing all troops soor than they were ultimately removed. two, some of the same republicans who were calling genel milley a traitor when peril was reported by news organizations. do we live in a moment like the movie where he tattoos things on his arms, you wake up every day and everything is fresh, or is there any sense that the man they don't wanto use as a kuj i will is something they wanted fired ten days ago? >> there are two things to remember based off today's testimony that will be lost because there were so many interesting and surprising revelations. one, general milley also spoke about something that's been reported, but nevereard him talk about on the record. that was a memo that he got from the white house, late 2020, ordering all u.s. troops, all u.s. troops out of afghanistan by mid january, and he talked about the proce of that a little bit today, how ultimately with the pentagon recommendations and guidance that was rescinded. that was under president trump. that was the first time we heard general milley talk specically about that happening, even though i had been reported. the second thing you have to remember is while we had general mckenzie, general mille saying they recommended keeping u.s. oops, in some cases upping the nuer of troops in afghanistan as point of leverage with the taliban, everyone said yes, we made arecommendation, it is the commander in ief's decision what to do. he listened tous, heard us, made his decision. it was a lawful order and we are executing it. we decided to execute it. that's why in one of the back and fohs, senator cotton asked geral milley why don't you resign. he said that's a very political decision to make. that's why. itas a lawful order. it was decision of the commander in chief and these are military men, even secretary austin, he is a civilian now, spent more than four decades in uniform. they're military men, they get orders from civilian leadership and carry them out if they're lawful orders and in this case again each one of them said they were carrying out their orders. none of them were up there complaining. they weren't demeaning the decision of the president, they were just saying they made the recommendations and he chose otherwise. >> courtney kube and robert costa, your reporting and context is so important, especially on a day liktoday. thank you both for sring wh us. rick is sticking around for the hour. when we come back, frustrated democrats on the hill in the senate and house at this hour, under pressure to pass any part of the president's agenda, not to mention pressure to keep the government open and avoid a debt crisis all because of you guessed it, republican obstruction. president biden's meetings with key senators, going to get the job done. and investigating the insurrection. new reporting on new subpoenas, who they're starting to interview. that reporting coming up. later, new details from insiders on how donald trump's actions in the final days of his presidency more closely resemble putin's russia than anything that the united states of america endured. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. of convenienc, or necessity. we can explore uncharted waters, and not only make new discoveries, but get there faster, with better outcomes. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change-- meeting them where they are, and getting them where they want to be. faster. vmware. welcome change. 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[ finger snaps ] hmm. ♪ ♪ the kohler walk-in bath features an extra-wide opening and a low step-in at three inches, which is 25 to 60% lower than some leading competitors. the bath fills and drains quickly, while the heated seat soothes your back, neck and shoulders. kohler is an expert in bathing, so you can count on a deep soaking experience. are you seeing this? the kohler walk-in bath comes with fully adjustable hydrotherapy jets and our exclusive bubblemassage. everything is installed in as little as a day by a kohler-certified installer. and it's made by kohler- america's leading plumbing brand. we need this bath. yes. yes you do. a kohler walk-in bath provides independence with peace of mind. call... for fifteen hundred dollars off your kohler walk-in bath. visit kohlerwalkinbath.com for more info. if republicans want to vote to not pay debts they helped incur, they can all vote no. we're just asking republicans get out of the way. get out of the way when you are risking the full faith and credit of the united states to play a nasty politicalam we c bng this to a resolution today. >> clearly frustrated senate majority leader chuck schumer this afternoon after mitch mcconnell blocked a motion that would let a simple majority increase the debt limit which lets the united states pay for debt accrued under a republican senate, republican house, and of course republican president. democrats are considering using the reconciliation process to raise the debt ceiling, a process that could take weeks. lawmakers have until october 18th to act before the u.s. defats on its debts. all this happening at critil momentor the president's enda. in a bit o a reversal in terms strategy, speaker nancy pelosi i sayinghe house will vo on t bipartisan infrastructure bil thsday, ev thoug the larr reconciliaon bill that contains major partsf the president's agenda isn't ready. joining coverage, jim heinz of connecticut, member of house intel committee. i want to get to all of that and we'll focus on the fact that all this falls on democrats because republicans are clearly not interested in governing. i want to ask about the news about general milley's testimony today. he testifies for a house committee tomorrow. i wonder your reaction to what you heard from him today. >> well, i was glad to hear the commitment he made to civilian control of the military, right? like everybody else, when the book came out, questions arose whether milley was free-lancing or not. the military can't free-lance from civilian control. he made clear what he said was consistent with the commander in chief's point of view, and that's good, particularly if as he said there was some concern on the part of the chinese that instabily was leading to the possibility of an attack on china. >> and it is surprise to go hear about instability, everybody running around to deal with it. i want to turno your thoughts, your strategic framework for looking at and how we should look at what happens this week in terms of myriad of crises, with republicans not at the table helping to govern. >> yeah. nicolle, it is helpful to separate what's really important in the long run from sadly what's dominating the news. what's dominating the news is how fast will the democrats get the bipartisan infrastructure deal done, how big will the reconciliation bill be. that's not nearly as urgent as preventing government shutdown and avoiding default on our obligations. it is disheartening, and people need to think about this. twice in the trump administration democrats helped the republicans. we had a president none of us particularly appreciated, but said we're not going to risk destroying full faith and credit of the united states government as much as we may find the president distasteful. the republicans now for probably the seventh time since i have been in congress are saying no, we would rather score partisan talking points than stand up for full faith and credit of the united states. to me, that's something that the american people need to think about. the bipartisan infrastructure bill, look, we've got wrestling and negotiating to do. we don't know where both sides are, but we know one thing, that every single democrat in this institution wants to support a bipartisan infrastructure bill and sizable, i guess the question is how sizable, reconciliationill. >> i wonder, the first piece, i guess i am old enough to remember what a political loser it was for republicans to play chicken and i wonder what you think has changed that they think it is a political winner to lead the country to the brink, to a shutdown. >> what they see is a democratic president, democratic majority in the house and very narrow democratic majority in the senate. that's all that matters. they're gambling if there is volatility in markets, they can point at the democrats and say they control everything, never mind that they sort of set up what would be that sort of financial volatility. it is galling to me. before i came here, it was speaker nancy pelosi taking you back to ancient history, you had a president george w. bush, hank paulson, treasury secretary, you remember this back in '08, the republican psidentnd his pele com to coness and say the economy will go away if you don't pass an emergency bailout bill. again, the republicans ran for the exits on their own president. it took nancy pelosi's hard work toet in place the rescue package to stabilize the economy. what blows my mind, nicolle, the business community which is nervous now continues to support people who as a matter of ideology are vandals tohe private sector. >> tell me what we' getting wrong about the st of tensions or different visionsor the size of the human infrastructure piece, we certainly are covering it, present company included, as a debate among democrs. what are we missing, how does that end inour view? >> well, my guess is that what's happening now is that as people get more nervous about exactly how it plays out, everybody asks what happens thursday, people are going to become naturally more pragmatic as we stare io the abyss, say every day goesy with stories how weon't have it done yet, people become more pliable. i hope that that means that the senate moderates put their cards on the table, say here's what we're willing to do, which by e way hasn't happened yet, and progressives inhe house saying they'll vote no trsday get enough confidence that there is a -- and we know there's going to be a remarkable, remarkable bill here, even if it is smaller than the progressives would like. pefully those two sides get comfortable enough to vote in whatever sequence it makes sense to vote. we all realize not getting thi done is the political apalypse, getting it done is almost certainly a hug difference for the american people. >> % of all americans support the infrastructure bill. there's been me news on someing w have calledn you for often, that's the insurrection and the 1-6 committee. wenderstand more subpoenas are coming out, forcing whiteouse officials, we coved their shenanigans the last five years, do you have any sense whether they'll cooperate and produce documents and what is your sense of the next tranche might include members. >> sadly having been a member of the intelligence committee with the you russian investigation, ukraine investigation, watching all the witnesses stonewall, i feel we'll see that again. i hope the law comes down on those that thumb their nose at congressional authority. particularly because we're talking about survival of our democracy. not talking policy difference here, we're talking is the democracy going to survive. look, whoever needs to be subpoenaed, there are probably members we would really like to know what they knew january 6th, what they knew january 5, whoever needs to be subpoenaed needs to be and they need to give us what they know. it couldn't be more serious. this is whether in three years we have a democracy in this country or not. >> liz cheney named kevin mccarthy. would you like to know what he knows? >> it would be interesting to know the details of his conversations with the president. we know because of press reporting and because one of my republican colleagues in the room that he did speak with the president. and again, we need to know all the facts. i couldn't feel more strongly about this. this is not do we tax more, less, build highways, this is whether we're going to have a democracy. we need to get to the bottom of all that. >> congressman jim heinz, thank you for spending time with us on all the day's headlines. we are grateful. >> thank you. more on what we asked the congressman about, chairman of the select committee saying to expect more subpoenas. that reportings next. that reporti ings next apartments-dot-com's 3-d virtual tours are so realistic it feels like you're actually there. and at's all thankto this guy, ted. 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[ inaudible ] >> there to rally that day? >> there are whole range of individuals who have information, who want to be helpful, want to make sure the committee has their perspective on what happened and has the details. >> rick, to jackie's reporting, this counts as a bombshell frankly, people are coming in without subpoenas, coming in to talk to the committee to do their duty as citizens and share what happened that day. of course, that's how things should work but not how they have been working. what do you make of that, this work, even though not all public facing is roaring ahead? >> i'm very glad to hear it. i mean, i think the report is all well and good for historians, but i think the thing the committee has to think about is our democracy is under threat. what is the relationship between officials and white supremacist groups and white nationalist groups that were participating in this. what are their relationships now? i don't think anyone has doubt that donald trump suborned people to attempt overthrow of the united states. that to me is a given. by the way, i would like to try the face in front of the supreme court as to whether executive privilege extends to a president trying to overthrow the republic. more importantly, we need to know what's going on now, what are the relationships. one of of the things that's so ugly and dangerous is the republicans who are trying to excuse what happened on january 6th and even portray it as something patriotic. well, that's a recipe for it happening again somewhere, somewhere else. that's why we need to get to the bottom of it. >> jackie, you loo at what the committee's mission statement is, it is about understanding everything that happened leading up to this date to make sure it never happens again. how keyed in is the committee on the fact it is still happening, that donald trump in rallies over the weekend is still trying to overturn the election result in the state of georgia, for example? >> nicolle, you make an excellent point here. it isomething that the committee is well aware of. i think it is important for reporters to continue to remind the public, especiall in the face of attacks by republicans that this is a witch hunt of an investigation, a broader philosophical mission of the committee is to create the most comprehensive, historic record possible to make sure that this doesn't happen again. jamie raskin told us expcitly today our constitutional democracy is under attack. he called it a political coup, what happened january 6th, critical flashpoint, said it could foreshadow a new generation of violent political trauma if not addressed through the report. i think something that has been surprising to members of the coittee and democracy watchers in general is that 2020 and what happened during the insurrection an the stop the steal rally didn't necessarily quash these movements but are only encouraging them. and congresan adam schiff told us the likely sign a coup will finally succeed in a country is when it has previously failed. that's because extremists have time to sdy weaknesses in the government and make moves based on that. >> real quick, rick, i want to ask about the eastman memo. it is apparently a memo, instruction, guide to the coup, it was revealed, part of the body of reporting in the woodward and costa book, the chairman of the joint chiefs acknowledged that, it is a smoking gun alongside many other smoking guns in terms of state of mind and intention of donald trump's actions leading up to january 6th. i wonder what you think these sort of appropriate investigation is into the memo, what they did with it, who looked at it, how it was created, and whether it is as jackie is suggesting still on the books as the plan for -- adam schiff's comment is right, when a coup is successful, usually because the one before it came up just short. >> yes. the memo is not the smoking gun, it is the bullet. i think we need to investigate how it came about, who adhered to it, wt effect it had. it is one of the most nious documents ever created in american history, and we've seen the light of it. that's what's been so regress i have about therump presidency, things that once hid under rocks are now proudly displayed. and i think again, as the congressman said, we have to takeome action for this. we can't just admire the problem as we have for awhile, we need to take some action, people need to suffer consequences of viating the law and attempting and promoting the commission of treason. >> we'll stay on it. thank you so much for spending time with us. thousands of health care workers in new york state lined up toet the shot, proving in most cases mandates work. a look at the outlook for the rest of the country next. the rest of the country next who pays more for prescription drugs than anyone else in the world? 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(brad) how does apartments-dot-com help more renters get into new homes than any other site? it's really as simple as taking the ol' power nap. and wakey, wakey... apartments-dot-com. the most popular place to find a place. in new york state where the first statewide vaccine mandate for healthcare workers took effect just yesterday, the governor and hospitals have been preparing emergency msures to fill shortages expected to be left by the thousands of people still refusing to gethe st. as "the new york times" put it today, with jt days or even hours to spare, thousands of healthcare workers got oculated. that's according to health officials across the state. and while thousands more workers remained unvaccinated and thus in danger of being suspended or fired, the rush o last-minute vaccinations appeared to blunt the worst case scenarios for staffing shortages that some institutions had feared. joining our conversation, nick confessore, investigative reporter for the "new york times" and msnbc contributor. i've seen a crush of reporting this week, both polling from fox news about majority of the public supporting vaccine mandates, and legal analysis saying there's plenty of solid ground on which this president and this white house stands. why aren't there more? >> well, look, there are two facts here, nicole. the vaccine mandates are working, and they're actually popular, which is why we see a bigger push from leaders, from officials, school districts, the biden administration, for mayors to push these mandates, and we're seeing it play out over and over again where there will be a hew and cry by the people who don't want to get it who will quit their jobs or whatever but in the end, most of them buckle and say, you know what, i'll get it. >> it speaks to the fact that the vast majority of us do all sorts of things for our job. what do you think the -- right? i mean, you know, i mean, anyone that has to come into work gets tested or wears a mask. i mean, we're doing all sorts of things to keep each other and to keep our workplaces safe and ultimately to keep the economy humming. i wonder what you think the prospects are that some of the southern states, not that they embrace the mandates, but that they drop the legal -- it seems like a lot of legal energy is going to be wasted fighting these when they're politically popular and they work. >> look, i think we'll see if the lack of mandates are startingo really hurt the economies in those states, if the rising case counts get really bad, and they're losing in court, i could see some movement there. but i think a lot of these governors and lawmakers are looking for a fight to pick for cable tv for their own minority of voters who think that a covid vaccine mandate is a return to soviet gulag and we'll see politics around that but the reality is we're not going to get back to normal life until there's more vaccination. it's a plain reality, a plain fact. we have to get there somehow. >> on that road, pfizer submitted today their data that shows that a reduced dose of the pfizer covid vaccine for kids 5 to 11 is safe and effective. that helps get us there as well, no? >> look, it's so important for kids to get vaccinated eventually and it's true that kids are at less risk if they get sick. it's not the biggest vector for people dying and filling up hospitals but again to get back to normal in schools, to make things super safe for teachers, for other workers, to get everything back to normal, a huge story and for any parent in america is how soon can those vaccines be authorized for our kids? >> i am on the internet trolling for any scrap of any news about when it will be approved, how fast it will be approved and where i can get it because it's going to be about distributing the child dose. nick confessore, one parent to another, tha you f spending time with us today. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick bak. don't go anywhere. we're just getting 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you could pa as littlas $0 qunol is the number one cardiologist recommended at ingrezza.com form of coq1 qunol has 3 times better absorption than regular coq10. the brand i trust is qunol. we need to consider some uncomfortable truths. we didn't anticipate the snowll effect of the deals the taliban struck with local leaders in the wake of the doha agreement and that the do agreemt itsf had demoralizing effec on afghan soldiers. >> my assessmenis, yes, it did affect torale the ahan securi force >>i again, evybody, it's 5:00 in new york, a bleak assessment from the top pentagon officials testifying before the senate armed services committee today, that the deal brokered b the ex-president, donald trump, th the taliban back in february 2020 negatively impacted the afghan secury forces. we know they fell to the taliban much quicker than u.s. officials expected in what was dcribed today by the chairma of the joint chiefs of staff, general mark milley, as a, quote, logistical sucss but a strategic failure, the u.s. end up evacuating more than 124,0 peop follong the collap of th ahan forces in 11 days, not the months that intelligence had suggested they had. president biden last month said the deal trump made with the taliban essentially left him no choice but to get people out. >> i'd have only one alternative, pour thousands more troops back into afghanistan to fight a war that we had already won relative to why the reason we went in the first place. >> defense secretary austin echoed that sentiment tay when he was asked aut wt woul haen if the dealad not been honored. >> the doha agreement represents direct negotiations with terrorists and not just negotiations but an agreement with them. did the intelligence suggest to you that reneging on the departure of the troops would lead to significant attacks against american and allied military forces? >> chairman, to my recollection, the intelligence was clear that if we did not leave in accordance with that agreement, the tiban would recommence attacks on our forces. >> and that is where we begin this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. jeremy bash is here, msnbc national security contributor, former chief of staff at the cia. and at the defense department during the obama administration. also joining us, mark jacobson, a combat veteran who served in afghanistan in 2006. he also served in kabul as the deputy nato representative and was a senior advisor to defense secretary asharter. and helene cooper is here. helene, i want to start here and broaden it out to the totity of what really amounted to an extraordinary day of public testimony today. i want to play h.r. mcmaster, donald trump's, i don't know, second of four national security advisors and he did an ierview with barry weiss describing the surrender reement, in his wos, that the last administration, mi pompeo, entered into. let's listen. >> our secretary of state signed a surnder agreement to the taliban. >> you're talking about mike pompeo? >> yes. thisollapse goes back to the catulati agreement of 2020. mean, y know the taliban didn't defeat us. we defeated ourselves. >> so, helene, i play that to broaden the lens around which we examine what happened on capitol hill today. what did you think of the sort of this line of questioning and responses up there today? >> well, hi, nicole. thanks for having me. i think you're right. this was an extraordinary day. i mean, as i was on deadline and filing my story and i, you know, you're in the moment and you're not really processing what you're seeing, and now that we've sort of the six hours of testimony has ended, the six hours of public testimony has ended, and you -- we now sort of have time to think about what we just saw today, it was sort of just a really sad punctuation to america's 20-year adventure in afghanistan. i think you saw the pentagon, these pentagon, senior pentagon leaders who themselves have now, as they've been preparing for their testimony, been forced to have to try to take stock of ere we are and how far we've come and how far we didt come in afghanistan. in august, during the tumultuous chaos of the evacuation, the pentagon officials kept saying, let's get through this first, let's get everybody out that we can get and then we'll go back and reassess, and now they've been forced to do so, and you're seeing the type of -- the type of study about -- of what all we've done, what all we were not able to do and just how -- for how long we signalled that we weren't going to be there much longer. you know, we kept saying every -- from president bush, in fact, it was clear that you had this succession of american presidents who did not want to remain in afghanistan indefinitely, for good reason. i mean, the american people didn't necessarily sign on to a hundred-year war as, you know, senator -- the senator john mccain once said and that's sort of what you were going to have to get if you were ever going to be able to declare victory in afghanistan. it's just sad that it took 20 years for people -- for this -- for people to realize that. >> well, it is such a good -- a better framend helene, i was reading your updates and i was ou and about. i was watching this on the "new york times" app was streaming the coverage and y get the sense that it's a sadoment for the military as well. i mean, the openg stament from chairman miey commenced with him basicly acknowledging reporting i a book by bob woodward and robert costa sayi, yes, i skeo m chinese counterpart. it wasn't, you know, the hyperbol that republicans describe it as. it was steady, safe, and decolictin protecting the country from war. in som ways what was evenore sad was that the military has sort of bome thi last vtige of natnal secity wh o xic - aleasthe lt white house, this sort of toxic president who endangered everybody. >> which is the lasthing you want. you know, they will say this agai and again at the pentagon, that you d't want generals running -- you don't wan generals making decisions that the civilian commander in chief should be making, and general milley has really been confronting that. we all -- it was the last few months of the tmp presidency and the last few days as we all know were just an unprecedented time of chaos i this country, and for the mons leading up to the end of the trump presidency, you had constantly people asking, well, you know, trump is going to try anything. the milary won't let him. well, the way the constitution and the way our government -- form of government works is the military is supposed to follow the legal orders of whoeverhe coander chief is, and when you talk about -- when you look at, for instance, the transcript of the phone call between general milley and house speaker nancy pelosi as it's relayed in the book "peril" by bob woodward and robert costa, she is demanding that he take away the nuclear football from president trump, and that's like -- that's a really serious thing and he says, no, don't worry. we've got, you know, i can't really do that but we've got procedures in place, but the -- at the end of the day, the commander in chief is the commander in chief, and unless it's an illegal order, the pentagon basically has to do what he says. i mean, people can resign in protest, and they do have some legal room in the phrase, "lawful order." they can only, you know, they're only sworn to follow the lawful orders of the president, of whoever is president, but the whole issue of civilian control of the military was sort of an underlining strain at this hearing today. it was just rely interesting to watc >> yeah i mean, remy,ou can't divorce the political moment from the moment in which general milley serves as the chairman of the joint chfs, and we'll get to the questioning from members of both parties about the withdrawal from afghanistan, but i think helene is making a point that we shouldn't skim over. we have spent five years asking the question, are there any guardrails, who are the guardrails when jim comey's gone, who will be the guardrail? the truth is, what general milley testified to was that it felt to him, to save the country from war, not because there wasn't anybody left. i mean, he talked about esper giving him the instruction. mike pompeo was still there. it tells a story of a catastrophic failure of leadership, of patriotism and of ethics from the republicans in the last administration and in congress. >> well, nicole, i think when the topic of civilian control of the military is taught to future classes of military leaders, whether it's at west point or the naval academy, i think they're going to look back at this hearing, this day, and they're going to showcase this transcript because on the issue of china, what general milley said, effectively, was that far from undermining his commander in chief, he was telling the chinese leadership that there is stability, notwithstanding everything you're seeing coming out of the white house, denying the election results, then ultimately what occurred and unfolded on january 6th, that the united states was a stable country, that there was no reason for the chinese to fear an attack and that we recollected we should not break out into war and i think he did the nation and the world a tremendous service in doing that and he said this was the policy of the trump administration. i wasn't doing anything other than articulating it and of course with respect to afghanistan, he said and general mckenzie said they had a recommendation to keep more troops in afghanistan. the civilian commander in chief, the president of the united states, the person elected by the american people disagreed, said we should end the 20-year war and they saluted smartly and executed with professionalism and precision. today was a water mark in owcasi the val of civilian control of the military in our constitutional system, nicole. >> jeremy, let me ask you to provide some context into what republicans are, i'm sure, undoubtedly trying to do, which is to show, i guess, some discrepancy and contradiction between president biden's answer in a press interview that he did not receive advice to leave troops there and the testimony today where they didn't disclose necessarily what they said to president biden privately, but they shared their opinion and analysis, which was that a residual force of 2,500 troops was their recommendation. >> yeah, i think it's really clear what happened, nicole, which is that early on in the process, when the president was deciding what timeline we should withdraw on, because of course trump had said, let's get out by may, and biden ultimately decided to decelerate that timeline. the military leadership was saying, let's keep 2,500 troops in afghanistan. the president weighed that. there was an iterative process. there were many meetings, many decisions, and the presint disagreed with that advice, which is his responsibility to do, to weigh it and consider it, and he said, no, we're going to be out by august 31st. break, bak. later, in august, after the fall of kabul, after we were already evacuating tens of thousands of people from the airport in kabul, the president asked his military advisors again, shod we stay longer than august 31st? and ifunanimously, the chairman, general mckenzie,he leaders on the ground said, no, we should n stay and the president followed that advice. i think what the psident has said publicly is exactly accurate andlsohowcases that he is listening carefully to his military advisorso protect the interests of the united states. >> mark jacobson, i'm curious if you see it that way. i do want to play this section, though, of testimony that jeremy's talking about. this is under questioning from senator angus king about the risks from the taliban if the military that had stayed at that point. let's watch. >> that's correct, senator. we said risk to mission, risk to force and risk to remaining american citizens in afghanistan was going to go to extremely high, beginning one september if we stayed past 31st with u.s. military forces. >> and you use that term risk to mission, risk to force as a kind of -- that's a descriptive phrase but we're talking about potentially hundreds of american lives, are weot? >>well, when we talk risk of force, we're specifically talking casualties, killed and wounded. we would have had significant amounts of killed and wounded. exact numbers are always imprecise when you're doing those kind of estimates. it would have been significant u.s. military killed and wounded and remaining american citizens who you ha beent greer risk. >> mark jacobson, yr reaction to that and to what you've heard so far. >> i think if there's one thing about the hearing today, you heard direct, unambiguousnd professional testimony from two of the most seniorilitary leaders, general frank mckenzie and of course chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, milley. i understand the distinction they were trying to make between the advice they were trying to give earlier to the president and the advice where they were unanimous in terms of the risk to the mission later. you know, look, there is a lot of nuance that people have to understand with regards to the testimony here. this was a complex environment. and i have been very clear, you know, i didn't agree with the president's decision, and i woul have liked our troops to stay longerbut i thought, again, the witnesses made really very clear what was going on in terms of the advice given, why they gave that advice, and then were also very clear that the president gave that advice a great deal of consideration. >> you three have all of the expertise to rlly appreciate and help all of us and our viewers understand the nuance. one thing that was, i think, rick stengel used the word, a civics lesson, was there was partisan concern about some of the people who were extremely endangered by theay we left, and senator blumenthal, i want to play some of his commentsn e heang and'm goi to brg him to ouronversion on the other side of this. >> ias involved inn effort through charteredlanes and aiorts outside o kul to try to air lt on aakeshift ad ho bis aricans andfghan alli stillhere. they hav targets on the back thr situation i creasily urgent and desrate. and i havbeen fstrate by the lk of someonen crge and lines of authority, a point pers. we need an evacuatio czar sobody who wl provide alan and servise actio so that we can g out offghanianhe american thatremain there and will tellou,e don't have an estate on the numbe because nobody is in charge right now. >> let bri intur coersation senator richard blumenthal of connecticut. 's a member of the armed services, judiciary, and terans affairs committees. thank you for spending time with us. aye talked about that moment and we just played it part of our convertion, our coverage. tell me if you left today with clarity on any of the important issues you raised there. >> there really was no clarity, and with all due respect tthe secretary of defense, he provided no real responses t my questions because at the moment, there aren't responses. there is nobody in charge. and undeniably, and he knows and so does every membe of that panel, there's a moral imperative here. the are tens of thousands of afghan allies, the former interpreters, translators, guards, security officials who went into combat with our troops. they protected our diplomats. ey put themselves and their families at risk and now they have targets on their backs. they're at rk of murder and torture. they're in hiding. and their situations are increasingly desperate. my office turned into a kind of mini-evacuation center. my senior staff and i were making phone calls. i called some of the very top officials in the white house, in the state department, and members of the state department pointed to the department of defense. the department of defense pointed at the white house. nobody in charge, and it's a continuing challenge that we need to face because lives are at stake. lives of people who put their lives on the line for us. it's different than other asylum seekers or refugees. these people demonstrated their love for america and i have met many of them who have come to this country now as a result of being air lifted, and they are potentially a source of great contributions to this country. we ought toeally honor them by respecting those rights. >> i'm curious what answers you've been given by anyone, either in public or private, because it see thaour mission and your value of these afghans is shared by the entire veterans community. this president seems to say that he supports this mission. what is the explanation you're given? >> nicole, you are so right that this passion is shared by the veterans community. i have been moved by the veterans groups and individuals who have fought, literally fought with tremendous emotion on behalf of these guys who are over there in afghanistan and really risked their lives for our veterans as well as the ngos and the relief organizations and some government officials, and what i have been told often by the state department or others is, we need to vet these folks. we need to know more about them. we need to have someone on the ground. well, we have nobody on the ground. that happened as a result of our withdrawal. whatever you think about the policy, we've been working through the qataris. i've been in touch with foreign governments who have assisted us, and i think that we know more about these folks who are still there than many of the 125,000 who were air lifted in the days preceding our withdrawal. so, i think what i have been told is inadequate so far. fortunately, and i will emphasize this point, our state department and department of defense are moving in the right direction, and they've recognized the crisis that we face, and by the way, nicole, it's not only a crisis in getting people out. it's also dealing with the tens of thousands who have already come out and now have to be resettled through groups like iris in conneccut. there are real heroes among them. >> i want to ask you just wh your experience and your exrtise here, for your analysis of the total of which you heard. i mean, helene, who has been covering the pentagon, described it as an extraordinary day of testimony. you know, detected some sadness from these hdened generals abouthis oortunity today to reect on faures, on a 20-year effort, on sacrice. you're talking about the sacrifice of our allies, obviously the sacrifice ofen and women in the military over years. what was your sense of the broader presentation and responses given on that broader topic? >> i'm a dad. two of my four children served in the military during this time. one as a navy s.e.a.l., the other as a combat infantry officer in afghanistan in the united states marine corps and i would jus second the sentiment that all three members of this panel expressed. they deserve our gratitude. and they should be pro. whater their feeling, and i ca understand the very deep and mixed emotions that they have, every single veteran who served during this period should be proud of their service, and we owe them for the invisible wounds of war that many of them bear as wells the visible ones and the others who have come ba completely well, better education, better healthcare, better job opportunities, so when those members of the panel, even though they said, as general milley did, that afghanistanas a sategic failure, i think we need to continue to be grateful and honored by the service of our men and women in uniform. >> absolutely. senator richard blumenthal, thank u so much for spending time with us. helene cooper and mark jacob zone, thank youo much. we'reeally graful. jeremys stickground little longer. when we come back, tew insider accounts of how the sgraced twiceimpeache ex-president worshipped vladimir putin. ssia advisor fiona hill even writing that janua 6th was the clearest example, donald trump trying to make america more like russia. that's next plus, former president back obama breaking ground on his presidential center in chicago, hoping to reverse the trends of tribalism and divisn that have infected our politics. and there's brand-new reporting on the mad scramble by republican leaders in texas who will stop at nothing to placate thex-president a his big lie. 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"all of putin's machination greatly impressed trump. he wanted to get along with russia and with putin personally, praically the only thing trump said to me during my time in the administrationas to ask in reference to putin, am i going to like him? before i could answer, the other officials in the room got up to leave and the presidens attention shifted. such is life as a female advisor in the trump white house." then there's stephanie grisham, a senior official in the administration who makes clear in her new book that attempts to look tough on russia were all an act, reflecting on a bilateral meeting in osaka back in 2019, grisham writes this, quote, with l the talk of sanctio agains russia for intfering in the 2016 electi and for rious man rhts uses, ump td putin,okay, i'm gog toct a lite touer with y for aew minutes but it's forhe cameras and after they leave, we'll tal you understand. fiona hill was actually present for that meeting and griam describes it this way. quote, as the meeting began, hill leaned over and asked me if i had noticed putin's translator, who was a very attractive brunette woman, with long hair, a pretty face and a wonderful figure. she proceeded to tell me that she suspected the woman had been selected by putin specifically to distract our president. joining our conversation is charlie sykes, editor at large for the bulwark. first, your reaction to what we're hearing from fiona hill and stephanie grisham. >> getting a little ry in the 5:00 hour, nole. >> it's cocktail hour somewhere. >> hey, exactly. it's happy hour. i think with respect to the national security implications, i think this just is more evidence, as if any were needed, that the trump administration, but donald trump in particular, was extraordinarily weak in the face of putin's aggression. trump undermined our allies in nato. he slobbered all over vladimir putin. he publicly said in helsinki that he believed putin's descriptions of election interference over our own intelligence community's descriptions. and look, all the while, putin was developing hypersonic weapons. he was imprisoning opposition figures. he was poisoning potential spies who had helped the west. and what did the trump administration do? they slow rolled sanctions against the kremlin, so all the while, putin was having his way with trump and i think there were real consequences, nicole. it wasn't just about the u.s. and the trump administration. it was about democracy itself, and putin's vision, his vision to undermine democracy was achieved between 2016 and 2020 in ways that i think only historians will help us understand in hindsight. >> well, i hear you, but i mean, before the historians sort of get that full picture down, the current president has to deal with the damage tt was done, and i wonder if you can just say a little more, jeremy, about how -- and it's not just an asymmetry. i mean, putin would rob you if you were hiding you wallet. trump, like, took it out and ened it up and handed it to him and was like, what else can i put in here? how much ground didutin gain on us because of trump's subservience and worship of him? >> a tremendous amount of ground, and i think after the 2016 election, aft russia clearly interfered to benefit donald trum and our intelligence community called the kremlin out on this and trump worked the entire four years of his presidency to undermine the intelligence community and our entire national security apparatus's effort to push back on russia, its asymmetric threats against us and democracy writ large in europe and around the world, i think putin felt he had the upper hand but when president biden came in, i think the kremlin realized the party's over and what u saw in europe earlier this year when the president went to europe, met with our allies, ralliedhe world's democracies to not only fight covid but to stand up f democratic values and to push back on the autocratic norms that the kremlin has been advancing and then the president sat down with kremlin and called them o on solarwinds and all the things that have been dominating the headlines in 2021, i think putin knows that th party's over and that he's got a vy tough oppont in joe bide in the oval office. >> you know, charlie sykes, this is where donald trump leaving the stage sti doesn't help the united states of america or our national security and this where i guess you have beat some understanding into me about why e republicans roll over and die with the insurrection and the rolling bac of our democratic norms. but this, russia, i mean, i find it galli that in mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy, you ha two rublica leade tally indierento rusan aggression and what jeremy's describing, putin gaining so much ground on the united states of america because of donald trump. why don't they care? >> well, by the way, i have two reactions to these books before i address your question, which is, you know, i'm glad we're learning confirmation of things that we actually already knew, but i continue to be frustrated by all the people who were in the room who did not speak out when it really mattered. stephanie grisham being one. you know, you talk about john bolton, mick mulvaney, general mattis, all these folks who knew what donald trump was and how he was behaving and yet chose not to share that with the american people before the election. but having said that, fiona hill's essay is really important and the points she makes, i think, is not just that donald trump had this weird man crush on vladimir putin, but he also shared his world view. they actually shared this illiberal contempt for democratic norms and she describes the way that america and russia have kind of coalesced, how there's been a convergence of our political styles and the way in which trump has helped import the kind of chaotic politics that putin thrived on. and so, you're right, simply removing donald ump from the white house hasn't changed that, because what's happened is, putin's style of politics has infected the american body politic and we're left to deal with that and you know, fiona hill basically describes our polarization, by the way, as a serious national security issue. i mean, she makes that point very, very explicitly, that that is now the national security -- is the polarization, that the enemy is n with. i mean, charlie, i want to address both your points because on the first, i agree, and we'll make a graphic and put up on the list of all the people it woul have been fantastic to hear from and speaking of rac stephanie grisham goes there, all the way there. but i think on the question abou russians' attack on this couny, it was to sow division. the success of the fact that what rudy giulni was peddling was russian disinformation, where rudy giuliani was peddling stuff from russian bacd ukrainians, i mean, the infectio and the infiltration and the lines between ron johnson's political attacks against biden and russian disinformation were erased and i guess my question for you, charlie, is can you put the genie back in the bottle? are weone now? have we just blurr all the lines between russia's nationa security objective and what republicans will gleefully peddle? >> i don't know the answer to that. i'm not as optimistic as i would like to be, but vladimir putin's return on investment has been fantastic. far more than anything he could have possibly imagined. you know, in 2016, we thought there were bots. we thought there was disinformation. whatever russia did back in 2016 has been overwhelmed by our domestic industry of disinformation and division. so, i don't know how we can put that back in the bottle. and all of this has happened in broad daylight. we know the president's attorney, we know that u.s. senators like my own senior senator from wisconsin, very peddling russian disinformation, and yet, among republicans, you bring up russia, and they're going to say that it was all a hoax. no amount of information, no reports from, you know, bob mueller, no reports from fiona hill are actually going to serve as a reality check on this continuing delusion. >> it's just an amazing, amazing, one of the most sort of marked differences between these times in which we live and just ten years ago. jeremy bash, it is so great to get to spend some of this hour with you. thank you so much, my friend. charlie sykes is going to be back in a couple minutes. when we come back, former president barack obama takes on the culture of cynicism and politics of tribalism. we'll play you some of his speech today as he broke ground on his presidential center. that story's next. his presidenr that story's next. what happens when we welcome change? 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(brad) apartments-dot-com. the most popular place to find a place. we e living through a moment of rapid disruption. and technology and the global economy and our social arrangements, in our environment, and those disruptions can be scary. we start seeing more division. and increasingly bitter conflict. politics that feeds anger and resentment towards those who aren't like us and starts turning away from democratic principles in favor of tribalism and might makes right. but the good news is, we can reverse these trends. i don't believe it's inevitable. that we succumb to paralysisr mutual hatred or abandon democracy in favor of systems that reserve power and privilege for the few. i believe we have it in us to reimagine our institutions. >> that wa former president rack obama striking his familiar notes of hope and optimism and perspective as h spoke at the groundbreaking for his presidential center in chicago today. the 44th president used his speech today to reach out to a younger generation, one who, as he said in his first autobiography last year, will make a differenc in today's america and help solve the wod's problems as they arise. let's bring into our conversation nbc correspondent shaquille brewster and eddie glaude, from princeton university. i am a student of this president's speeches. they are all so deliberate. they are all so rooted in the mont, and if youake this speech, shaq, and you put it next to the last real passionate speeches we heard from president obama during the presidential election, this one seems like his effort to sort of turn the page on helping to get rid of trump and sort of setting up his center with the focus on making the future better than the moment in which we find ourselves. how much of that is sort of spoken and how much of that is sort of assumed? >> well, you really heard the intention in president obama's speech. he was really trying to underscore, like you said, moving forward into the -- to see where the country goes from beyond this, and you know, one thing that was very clear from his speech is the vision that he has with his actual presidential library a presintial center, it's the idea that he's not just looking back, not just looking back at his administration or at what his foundatn calls his accomplishments, but really ying to have the location that can be an engine for people, a place of inspiration, and that's really been underscored all throughout t day with this presidential center. yes, there's that 235-foot building that will be there, that will be -- that will house the actual center, that will house the artifacts there, but this is really going to be an entire campus and that's a word that you heard many people use, including his senior advisor, talking about how it's not just the building but you also have things like sledding hills, biking trails, athletic fields. they really want this to be a key par of the community. one thing you also hrd from the former president when he was speaking was the vision of what this can do to the south side of chicago. we heard from former first lady michelle obama talk about how personal this was for her to brin this kind of project, this kind of investment to this community, the former president underscored that as well, saying this is something that can drive innovation. 's driving the investment. you see the wk has already begun behind me in this south side jackson park area. theye really trying to have this be an inclusive project and you see that even i terms of e construction period. we kno that me than half of the ctracto that ve alread been award contracts for this project are eher wome or peop of color. the architect is -- o of the architects i a womanf color so there's that idea of intention all throughout the day, not only inreside ama's words b in wt we're seeing with the start of this presidential center construction. >> eddie glaude, i watched this speech and one of the things that jumpedut to me from the president, and i also, you know, this idea of a center, we don't call themibraries anymo because centers are wre young people go, it's where things happen. they're not just -- and the president made joke about this. he said, yeah,e'll he michelle's bl gowns in there, i' sureots of people want to see those and that's true, but this idea of vibrancy. he alsoaid he's going to sort of train leaders from both sides the aisle. this is a president very aware of the fact that the way out of this muck is not, you know, digging into your own corne but trying to create better conversations across the divides. >> yes, nico, i think, you know, ideally, it is powerful, what the president -- theormer president is laying out here. but there's always with president obama, the cruel juxtapositio of the significance of his sbol and the substance of lived experience. there'a sense in which the rhetoric seems tbe kind of lagging with our contemporary political reality, even though i understand the nature of the intervention. there'she reality of what this center will do to that communit there are some who are worried -- isn't this the irony of all ironies, nicole, that it could be the case that the first black president's presidential library cou be the harbinger of gentrification? that members of black and brown -- members of that community, most of whom are renters, have no guarantee that their rting prices will not go through the roof and they may not be able to live in those communities? have we heard the kind of language about building that center that will stave off the typical kind of displacement that comes with economic development? there'salways, it seems to me, with president obama, that cruel juxtaposition of the symbol and the significance of the lived experience itself. >> eddie, that's -- i mean, only -- you have a profound way of making everything deeper than it is, and you made me think and i want you to say more about the extraordinary sort of scrutiny that this president and only this president is always under. >> he's always under because he's the first. in so many ways,e was supposed to usher the country into a new phase of living, not that we were putting race behind us, but somehow that we had turned a corner. but w now ever since 2008, there has been an incremental increase in hate crimes in the country. we know that he, in some ways, ignited deep fears and panic about the browning of america. that in someways, the residual effects of his presidency over the last eight years combined with the census data that for the first time in the htory of the countr the white pulation has declined, that this in some ways is at the heart, the engine, the fuel of, shall we say, that we're being displaced, right? this sense of resentment and pain. so en when he strikes this note, it makes it important. it makes us -- it makes -- it's important for us to understand the note is happening within the context of a discordant symphony. >> eddie is sticking around a little longer. nbc's shaq brewster, thank you so much for your reporting from chicago. it's great to see you, my friend. up next for us, how far republican officials will go to placate, if that's the right word, the twice-impeached disgraced ex-president. new reporting on the mad scramble after trump called for an audit in texas. he won texas. that story's next. n texas. he won texas that story's next. who pays more for prescription drugs than anyone else in the world? americans do. and whose tax dollars does big pharma use to develop those same drugs? that's right. our tax doars. it's a big pharma scam. they get rich and we get ripped off. and it's why pharma is spending millions on lies and scare tactics to stop a plan that lets medicare negotiate lower prices. congress, stop the big pharma scam. let medicare negotiate lower prices. omega-3 from fish oil is an important nutrient congress, stop the big pharma scam. for heart heth. qunol's ultra purified omega-3, is sourced only from wild caught ocean fish, not farm raised and comes in an easy to swallow mini pill. the brand i trust is qunol. - your mom's got to go! - she's family. she's using my old spice moisturize with shea butter and she's wearing my robe. mom: ahem ahem ahem we're out. we're learning again today just how low republicans will go to saciate the twice impeached president's appetite for what, something? rewriting the 2020 election. politico is reporting on texas governor's response to that letter demanding abbott pursue an audit of the presidential election results in 2020 despite the fact that he won. it's a request that sent the governor's office into a, quote, mad dash. in the letter trump told abbott to pass hb 16. hours later the secretary of state's office put out a statement saying they already had begun reviewing votes in the four counties in the state. behind the scenes the governor's office was not aware that trump would sd a letter from politico's reporting. the texas governor's office was set off. there had not been contact between trump and abbott and abbott's office was up certain if they could meet trump's demands to pass hb-16 without complicating the legislative agenda. one texas political aide familiar with how the process played out said, quote, the secretary of state's decision to call for audits was predicated on trump's statent mentioning governor abbott. this is some sick [ bleep ]. i mean, chlie, at? i mean, they're like hostages with guns to their head. trump tells them to take his pants off, is he going to do it? what is going o with these weak, pathetic leaders whose salaries are paid by taxpayers? >> well, it is self-hostage taking here. what is interesting, this occurs after we have the face plant be in arizona where the cyber ninja audit failed to overturn the election, which normally would have been an embarrassment if facts mattered, if shame mattered. this would have dampened the push for more of theseake auts but it h no effect whatsoever. that's a revealing moment and it's very similar to what happened in wisconsin. the speaker of the assembly knows there was nothing wrong and pushed them into an audit. if there was any lingering sense that there would be, you know, facts or information or reality checks that would slow down the republican's embrace of the big lie, i think this tells you exactly where we're at. also, it's very revealing, isn't it, that the audit will only be the four biggest counties in the state? they're not auditing the whole state. they're only auditing some of the democratic strongholds. so no points for subtlety. no points for backbone. >> we're bond tugh donal ump. thissn't about dald trump. this is abouthellsf men. this is about empty shells ofa at the time -- pathetic sers. they'r like the fax machine. what is wrong with voters that they don't reject peopleho can't even do bad stuff that they think of on the own? solutely, it's like a gaggle of pillsbury dough boys. he doe't care if they prove something, they want to generate distrust sohey can declare if they lose that the election was illegitimate. >> eddie, it's an election that installed them. if the elections can't be trusted, maybe i should go? >> yeah nicole, trying to think rationally about these people, i don't know how we do it, but i do know that at the end of the day, you've been talking about this onhis show, that they are in some ways eroing the legitimacy of our democratic process with each of the spectacles. we have to take that seriously, i guess. >> charlie, i think it's not about 2020. this audit, we should be super clear. this is not about looking at four texas counties and how they voted in 2020. this is about putting them on the map, putting a target on them for 2022 and 2024. i am terrified to my last sort of cell in my gut that democrats aren't fighting with as much vigor as republicans. >> well, i agree with that. no, i mean, just underline what eddie had to say here. these audits are not intended to find out what the truth is. they're intended to delegitimize the 2020 election and also lay the groundwork for the next time. and the republicans have internalized this idea that they are going to make this a restriction of the balloting. the way the ballots are counted central to their appeal. to your point about the democrats, i do think thathe democrats are underestimating the possibility that in 2024 that notnly will the vote be suppressed but that there will be games played with the way the electoral votes are counted. >> yeah. >> that's why i think it is absotely cruci for the to address the electoral vote counting. >> to be continued. thank you so much for spending some time with us today. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. power, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron. we can create new ways to connect. rethinking how we communicate to be more inclusive than ever. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change. faster. vmware. welcome change. qunol is the number one cardiologist recommended form of coq10. qunol has 3 times better absorption than regular coq10. the brand i trust is qunol. so, you have diabetes, here are some easy rules. no sugar. no pizza. no foods you love. stressed? 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"the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, nicole. we're going to kick it off like this tonight with a straightforwd explanation of what is happening in washington that affec your life because there's a lot happening. toght republicans are actually trying to shut down the entire government and also send the united states into a rare and what would be catastrophic finance. >> al: default, something that, to be clear,ay not actually happen but is at least on the table as a risk. the whole thing is real because no one can guarantee what happens next. you could hava shutdown. you could have bridgesnd roads cr

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