it's good to see you thank you as always. we'll see you throughout the week. take my friend. it is can the democrats actually pull this off, we're gonna break down what to watch out for with our sunday night all-star panel. then with politics primarily field by divisive cultural issues in this country, we're gonna take a look at how the american cultural war, has changed over the past 30 years with calm this podcast and offered and savage. plus a new bombshell report from yahoo news. on a light cia kidnap weekly weeks julia hassan. we're going to speak to one of the journalist behind this new explosive reporting. i'm aiming let's get started. we heard a dozen times this week on capitol hill will be a make-or-break test for president biden's agenda, congress is working to pass a 3.5 trillion dollar reconciliation package any one trillion dollar infrastructure bill, all while trying to avoid a government shutdown any debt crisis. and just in the last few hours the timeline on that agenda has actually gotten a little bit clearer. now in a new like there to colleagues released tonight speaker pelosi announced a vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill is now slated for thursday. debate on that is set to begin tomorrow morning. anna little on friday speaker pelosi described the next few days as a time of great intensity, here's where pelosi had to say this morning about that bipartisan infrastructure bill, which was originally scheduled to be voted on tomorrow. >> so are you confident that these progressive members are going to vote yes even though they said no? >> let me just say we are going to pass the bill this week. we will bring the bill before tomorrow for consideration. but you know i'm never bringing a bill to the floor. that doesn't have the votes. >> so speaker pelosi's new announcement tonight does that mean that she has the vote? looks like we're gonna find that out on thursday now the speaker isn't new to this dance. but this week poses possibly the most difficult tests she has to face since passing the affordable care act more than a decade ago. whatever happens in the house, even pelosi, knows it all comes down to what actually happens in the senate. >> how are you negotiating with the senate that joe manchin hasn't told you what he wants? >> [inaudible] >> all right so things on the senate side have been getting more complicated, not from senator joe manchin but from the other so-called moderate senator arizona christine cinema, who quite frankly is a more conservative democrat than a moderate one. the new york times is reporting that cinema has privately told colleagues that she will not accept any corporate, or income tax rate increase to pay for democrats human infrastructure spending package. now less our my colleague spoke to cinemas colleague senator maisy vilano from hawaii. >> i hope that she changes her mind let's put it that way, you know. we need to hear from both person and know what parts of the build back better program do they not like so that we can start talking about the parts that they do like and we can do those parts at least. >> and that's the problem, they're not being clear about what they don't. like they're just saying that they don't like it. there's a lot on the line here and right now biden's approval rating are underwater. and it's nbc news is john allen note, the president needs a win, perhaps to. not just that the honeymoon is over for the president, but the marriage between biden in the public is on the rocks. the only way to save that marriage and acting in much as possible in biden's two point infrastructure plan. >> so can democrats flip to gather? can biden keep his votes for the american people? or are we heading towards splits ville? let's discuss all of this with my panel. mike debonis is a congressional reporter for the washington post, he's been closely following the latest developments on the hill. maria henhouses is the president and for tour media, anchor of npr's latino usc and a journalist with a nearly 30 year career who wrote the memo once i was you. also joining us someone who knows the halls of the capitol all too well, former republican congressman jolly he's an nbc political analysts, and national chairman of the serve america movement. it's great to have all three of you with. us we have a lot to talk about this hour, mike i do want to start with the. let's listen to two house democrats on the opposite side of this divide representative gottheimer, and jayapal and what they had to say just this morning, watch. >> i support reconciliation, and so to my colleagues. we make all the time and let me tell you, we all agree that we need a reconciliation package and i think that's important for everyone to understand. but it doesn't mean, these are two separate bills, we've got infrastructure and historic one but there's no reason why we shouldn't pass that right away. >> i don't believe that there will be a vote, the speaker is an incredibly good vote counter and she knows exactly where her caucus stands, and we've been really clear on that. >> the votes aren't there? >> the vote there. so i don't think she's gonna bring it. up >> i mean this is just a couple of hours ago, maybe 12 hours or so. they were still talking past each other this morning, and i guess the question for you is, does pelosi now have the votes if she's confident this is going to take place on thursday? >> well thanks for having me, four days is an eternity in congress time. and if she doesn't have the votes today, she if he sees the path to getting the votes. i think what congresswoman jayapal said is that this will be delayed. she was right. the vote is being delayed. the reason is that they don't have the votes right now. speaker pelosi thinks that there is a pathway here, she is banding contra for 30 plus years. and she has learned one thing one truism about congress, is that you don't make progress by taking the pressure off. you take progress by putting the pressure on. and she believes that by setting this deadline she is going to be able to make some people come to jesus, as they say. and actually make some decisions here. and tried to move them off of these variant from positions. and you don't do that by moving the deadline and other. week you do that by saying by having the ball what do you need to get. they're >> so who do you think the pressure is on more here, david jolly? who do you think is under tremendous pressure to take might point here? . progressives or the so-called moderate? >> well amy and i would say that the democrats a large, because this is largely a pressure point of their own creation. we have two bills we have the 850 billion dollar bipartisan infrastructure bill that passed the senate with republican. vote and honestly what kevin mccarthy could do is really mock up this week by releasing his caucus. because there are probably more than 218 votes in the house for the bipartisan bill. and then the american people say, why are we just going to pass that. that's an enormous accomplishment. but the democrats have this internal caucus issue between the progressives and the so-called moderate. because the progressives want the three and a half trillion dollar bill, in addition. but even if they get that, even a pelosi pulls this off and never doubt nancy pelosi, she is remarkable and vote counting, never to her. but even the house passes both these bills, the senate is not going to pass a three and a half trillion dollar bill. so what's then? and we are left with that 850 dollar bill infrastructure bill that actually has brought support among democrats. >> and they broke down five key on the build back better plan, this is of course a top of the huge disagreement just genuinely about the price tag. and here are some of them on the screen right now, health care long term home care, childcare, climate, immigration, taxes. these are like the core issues of what the democratic party promised the pace in the election. and maybe a better collection is actually to say what is not up for debate right now? is it even possible to work this out between now and thursday? >> amy and there are a lot of people waiting for this, they are watching and waiting we saw so many activists descend into washington d.c. last week taking to the street not sure if we saw all of that being covered, necessarily but everybody is on the one hand waiting and watching. and on the other hand will has me a little concerned is that this is so internal sausage making. sorry to use the term. that a lot of people have just disconnected. and that on top of what we have seen with these challenges facing the biden administration, do i have been then what we just witnessed at the border. with refugees. not migrants with refugees trying to get into the united states. that, i feel that a lot of people are like we are going to have to do for ourselves, we are going to have to count on ourselves, if the job isn't working, i was just with a one person who quit his restaurant job because he's not getting respected on the job. i'm leaving. i feel like a lot of people are taking things into their own hands which on the one hand, it's great, but on the other hand president biden was campaigning on unity. we are going to do this altogether. and a part of me just wish that the progressive would just make stuff happen. and yet we are held back because of archaic laws based on the electoral collar itself, etc, etc. and to david's point wants the deviant gets out of the house you are still going to have to deal with what happens if the senate and not even anywhere near the finish line. david let me play for you this other clip from speaker pelosi with her on abc this morning, watch. >> obviously with negotiations they have to be some changes in that the sooner the better so that we can build our consensus to go forward and we will do that, but it sounds like you acknowledge the final numbers going to be somewhat smaller than? then >> yes and that seems to self-intimate everybody ever willingly and i think even everybody wants a smaller number supports division of the president, and this is really transformative. >> the number we're talking about right now is already compromise from what what they initially wanted which is closer to six, not the 3.5 that we're talking. about you served in home or is it. can't pelosi convince a legit to a lower number when they've already their perspective feel they've already made a tremendous compromise to where they are? not next to nothing publicly about would her oppositions and priorities are. she gave an interview to the arizona public. she said she was focused on climate. and i could subsumed any number of policy decisions on her. part -- from democratic leadership from the white house to get them to the table, to get them to pick a number, detail their objections and try to find a framework for some sort of big plan. that can move progressives to support the bipartisan infrastructure bill. that's what's going on >> mike, from the washington post. thank you very much for that reporting. maria, david stick around. we're gonna hear a lot more from both of you throughout this hour, coming up how has the cultural war changed in the past 30 years about the perfect guest, to discuss. it'll be talking with dan savage about that. policing reform is officially dead on capitol hill as lawmakers are unable to get that bipartisan over the finish line. what happened and what is next for police accountability in this country? my panel will be back with us to break it down. first richard louis is here with the headlines. >> good evening to you. some of the stories we're watching for you this hour, at least three people were killed and more than a dozen were injured when an amtrak train derailed in montana saturday. five people remained hospitalized and stable condition. that train was carrying passengers and crew members traveling from chicago to seattle, the national transportation safety board is currently investigating the cause of derailment. saturday night police -- shot at the u.s. open of surfing contest in huntington beach, california. officers try to get the unidentified man to surrender, but he was not compliant. the orange county sheriff's department was asked to investigate. and switzerland voted to allow same sex couples to marry in a referendum sunday. the measure was passed with over 60% of voters in favor. the country has authorized same-sex civil partnership since 2007. more ayman right after this. more ayman right after this. more ayman right after this. ♪♪ we believe everyone deserves to live better. and just being sustainable isn't enough. our future depends on regeneration. that's why we're working to not only protect our planet, but restore, renew, and replenish it. so we can all live better tomorrow. ♪♪ we are the next. the next generation of visionaries. rule breakers. game changers. and world beaters. we certainly aren't here to do what's been done before. and neither are we. at palo alto networks, we are ready to secure our digital future. we innovate to outpace cyberthreats. so you can make the next day safer than the one before. we've got next. can you be free of hair breakage worries? we invited mahault to see for herself that new dove breakage remedy gives damaged hair the strength it needs. even with repeated combing hair treated with dove shows 97% less breakage. strong hair with new dove breakage remedy. shows 97% less breakage. we did it again. verizon has been named america's most reliable network by rootmetrics. and our customers rated us #1 for network quality in america according to j.d. power. number one in reliability, 16 times in a row. most awarded for network quality, 27 times in a row. proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. that's why we're building 5g right, that's why there's only one best network. that was daniel craig in his final appearance of james bond and man, i'm excited for that. it's his upcoming film. no time tonight. scheduled to be released next week. but it is already generating controversy, its critics cried alter war at the thought of a woke james bond. an action hero who is, gasp, vulnerable. who cries and comforts women. taking things too far for some alpha males. just wait till they hear that the new films director said that sean connery's iconic bond was basically a rapist. yikes. my next guest knows a thing or two about the culture. he's been writing the incredibly popular savage glove advice column and his podcast. it has made him one of the most influential voices in america. he's also the author of the book, savage live from a tizzy. on sex and relationships. he joins me now, dan savage, welcome. good to have you on. i want to start with this. with james bond in the wokeness culture. it touches on issues of sexuality, gender norms and toxic masculinity. what do you make of the criticism that james bond is becoming to walk as the guardian put it? >> i didn't hear the question, sorry. >> no worries. i was asking you about james bond and this kind of debate about whether or not he was to work for the new concerns the guardian was talking about, that there is growing concern that james bond, this cultural iconic figure that everyone has grown to love has become too woke? >> i don't think that everyone loves james bond. -- if you pointed the telescope at my rear and, you would see the crap i give about james bond. too small, and too tiny. people, characters and franchises like this, involving change overtime, the james bond of the 60s who is not the james bond of the eighties. it cranks everybody up on cultural issues. we probably wouldn't notice the change even perceptible, and gradual on reflecting the changes that we've maiden society. i think as this character hangs on -- to injure more and more. >> let's talk a little bit about critical race theory. some of them are current issues we are seeing in this country. this week at a pennsylvania school district. reverse a band they had placed on certain books about people of color including children's titles about iconic figures like rosa parks and martin luther king junior and universal came after this strong backlash from students, parents and teachers. let me play this clip from one of the authors. one of the ban authors on msnbc from this morning. watch. >> chris, i wanted to give our kids something to look up to. heroes of kindness and compassion. and perseverance. and then suddenly to get a phone call that says hey, your book of rosa parks has been banned. martin luther king junior has been banned? my wife was so angry. i was heartbroken. it made me realize that there are kids out there especially right there in the county who are not going to be able to have these heroes. and of course it's absurd on its face. if you are bending books on the wrong side of the history. >> as an author yourself, what's your reaction to this. are the concepts as we heard there from the author, the concepts of compassion, kindness, just too divisive for certain people to accept? >> [inaudible] it's an academic argument. they're trying to make it taboo to discuss in public school settings. america's history of racism. that's why they have banned books from rosa parks, because she was standing up to segregationists and to jim crow. right wing activists and right-wing politicians want to prevent americans from educating their children or have them educated about that history of racism. it's not keeping the security out of school. 's you're taking books about rosa parks and martin luther king junior off the list, what you want out of schools, any acknowledgment of our countries, really unhappy, embarrassing. and history with ranks. our how racist our history is. that is the endgame here, not to keep crtc out of schools, but to keep wet america is, what america has done out of schools and that is a problem because then you keep out of schools how america has addressed its problems. how it has changed and evolved. you don't know where it started. you can appreciate where we are, and yeah. you can you certainly wouldn't be able to appreciated have we overcome this journey ahead of us if you think everything is perfect. it has been perfect from the get-go. let me, i want to talk about this sleep or file, they published a lengthy piece on you. and there was an excerpt that stood up to me. and here's a part of. in the one time rubble has become an establishment figure of stored's unwillingly ushering in a popular's sexual revolution of his. own three decades later, as the sexual landscape he confronts in his column as changed dramatically, savages still grappling with that responsibility. >> i know that you've experienced your share of controversy over those 30 years, how is it changed you are the things that you did in the past, that might have been seen as revolutionary 30 years ago that are no longer that in this reoccurring climate? >> what a lot is changed in 30 years, when i started writing a column in the early nineties about gay marriage, even a lot of gay people were uncomfortable with that and that drastically change. you know when you write about the topic i do and you write publicly, you get criticism. and advice columns always welcomes that criticism. like my inspiration in lenders and -- i always pointed letters from people who are arguing with me, and disagreeing with me telling me i was wrong about the particular of the situation. or about an issuer or a topic. and i always had to think and reassess and take in. it can be a problem now with internet pylons in twitter to, if your writer and you have any sort of public profile, to remember that mixed in with some bad faith critiques from trolls, there are going to be people who have a point to make. who are right about you being wrong. and you have to still be able to take that in even though it feels like anytime you approach critics you are opening a fire hose, you staff to be able to take criticism, here criticism, listen -- >> yes dan i want to ask you a few more questions so stick around because we're going to have you join our panel next, we are going to come back and we're gonna talk about bipartisan police the overall talks collapse this week on capitol hill. how did things get so derailed, are there any local efforts that can be taken to try and maintain police accountability? >> and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort. we're gonna see videotapes of africans being killed. we've had tragedies. you've got to start getting things done. the wonderful thing about it is, the police understand it as well. we've got to get back to the table eventually and get things done. >> that was new jersey senator cory booker on meet the press this morning. he was wading through the debris after the fall of bipartisan police reform talks this week. senator booker was simultaneously taking the high road when it comes to his negotiating partner. republican senator tim scott booker accepted responsibility for the break out of negotiations. he would not descend into partisan big name-calling. senator scott on the other hand took a bit of a different approach on another network. watch. >> both times, the folks have left the table where the democrats. let's just be clear that we have stayed at the table. we said simply this. i'm not going to participate in reducing funding for the police after we saw a major city after major city defund the police. many provisions in this bill that he wanted me to agree to limit it or reduced funding for the police. >> that, from a man who for months democrats said was engaged in good faith negotiations. discussing with me is mark, president and ceo of the national urban league, also the former mayor of new orleans. great to have you with us. mark, i want to get your thoughts on what we saw there. civil rights organizations obviously including yours, released a statement after the failure these bipartisan police reform negotiations. it actually urged leaders to quote, find pathways to advanced policy measures that would hold law enforcement accountable for misconduct and transform policing practices and policies. what's options are still available for making change if it cannot go through congress? big >> thank you for having me and congratulations on your new show. >> thank you. >> i want to say, we are not giving in on the george floyd justice and policing act, because tim scott was unable to deliver republican support for the bill. it is an absolute outrage to me that anyone would suggest that the bill, the george floyd justice and policing bill cut funding for the police. it's an absolute diversion and misrepresentation. the truth is is that senator booker and congressman basket work closely with a number of police organizations, and came close to it i think would've been a -- compromise. it was tim scott who for some reason backed off or could not deliver, now i've had a cordial relationship with tim scott, and i don't think my comments are partisan. this issue is too important for us to suggest that because this round of toxic collapse, that civil rights -- the families of victims of police brutality are going to give up. it's time for the president to involve himself in these discussions. it's time for the leaders of the house and the senate to take this seriously. what happens when there's another george floyd event? commitments were made. there was a tremendous amount of good faith. while i am disappointed dog with the point that we are at this juncture, we are not giving in. final thing i'll say, there are certainly -- this is important. there are many, many things that local governments can do. on their own, with their own coverage, with their own conviction, to reform policing, and there are things that sit -- at the justice department can do and could be done by executive order. it's not in significant. as it would be bypassing a federal statute. we are at this juncture. then making a mistake about it, we are not giving and. or giving up. >> democrats and to mark's point, he was saying that these were good faith negotiations. democrats showed optimism about the top with senator scott. realistically, how much can republicans be counted on to negotiate this in good faith? we all saw the movement in this country that took people to the streets and demand reform. republicans have just kind of diffused -- let the pressure out. we're not seeing the same kind of protests. where these negotiations really done by the republicans in good faith, or where they simply meant to drag this out until it's no longer on the top of the agenda as we now see? big p >> color me cynical. i think you used exactly the right term. the former mayor did as well. good faith. i don't think republicans were ever negotiating in good faith. whether or not tim scott had an ounce of good faith, we will let that verdict hang out there. the republicans at large had no interest in police reform, for really two reasons. defund the police narrative, whether it is accurate or not. it's something they would never see too in any compromise. would have played out with that narrative. and somehow they were reallocating law enforcement funding to other services for the second was a jurisdictional issue. there is no way that republicans in washington would've suggested that the federal should put greater controls on local and state law enforcement issues. and i think the opportunity to continue to move towards greater police reform and justice here, it's through civil rights litigation. the whole point of this police reform is to put federal statutes in place that open up the courts to greater civil rights litigation. the reality is where we are seeing on the streets, we are seeing these real dark marks and policing, it is around civil rights issues. that can go to the courts, but the hurdle is high. after we need congress to act. >> dan, i saw you say shaking your hand head there. do you agree that the republicans were not negotiating in good faith, or do you think they genuinely were and for legitimate reasons as to why they did not want to pass police reform? >> i think we need to accept that the republicans never negotiate with democrats in good faith. it was the thinking -- the other spoke about being from a cop family. my family is a cop. i spent my entire life listening to cops complain about everything cops have to do that they shouldn't be doing. intervening in mental health crises. being medical counselors. traffic tickets and traffic enforcement. there should be a way for democrats to talk about reallocating some funds -- to do things cops themselves say they do not want to do but should not be asked to do. instead of defunding the police we are leaving the police of those responsibilities they do not want and are not trained for, it results in few interactions with citizens. they could spin out of control because of what cops are trained for. at least currently with our militarized forces. which we also need to address as well. being the kid of a cop, i listened to my dad all my life complain about the thinks cops are being asked to do that they shouldn't be doing. we gotta stop asking cops to do those things and we need less policing, and we get to pay less for, it and pay other things -- other people to do these things that the cops never should've been asked to do in the first place. >> maria, who do you think the president here, the president biden shares some of the blame for congressional inaction on police reform? is he engaged enough in the process? i mean he said the timeline or the deadline back for trying to pass the george floyd and policing act for may. now here we are in the beginning of october. should he be leaning more into these talks. it's his agenda pretty full and what he's trying to get done? >> yes and yes. i mean that is what we are talking about in terms of leadership, right? it having to stick your neck out and responding to the people, because we cannot forget what we saw on the streets. all across the country after the murder of george floyd. i'm thinking about the fact that i covered the murder of allied to diallo. i covered the sexual assault of abnormal we are, a haitian immigrant in new york city in the 1990s. where we had the civilian complaint review board right here in new york city. and to see that everything is broken down in terms of prison reform, you know what i'm thinking about. especially after this week where we have seen men on horses with whips. call it whatever it is. it is a wig. and he's people or part of the board of petrol. don't forget that they were the ones who are doing the secret policing in seattle and other cities. remember when there were people without any identification? those were immigration officers. these things are tied as the pressure is on to resolve the issue of mass incarceration, you will see mass detention and deportation as a result. these things are connected. >> mark, final thoughts. are democrats taking black voters for granted on this issue? because this was obviously and is an issue that affects all countries, but obviously something important for black brothers in this country. black voters, the liberal democrats -- delivered joe biden the presidency. they turned around -- the primary race back in south carolina. at the end of the day, are they being taken for granted by the democratic party? >> there is an undercurrent of concern, which is now growing. that the commitments, the energy, the promises, which led to historical turnout may be dissipating, because of what is really -- i give the president great marks for bold, visionary agenda. for putting the need of the justice department. for leaning and heavily on the issues of racial justice. what we've got is a problem on the other end of pennsylvania avenue, where democrats and the democratic caucus has to demonstrate that they can govern. and to govern may mean, with mitch mcconnell wanted to get rid of the filibuster in a supreme court justice? he didn't. it may come to that. it's going to be a test -- >> it's at the center of the debate. we're going to see in how many ways it could be railed if things don't move this week. mark, david jolly, maria hinojosa, dan savage, thanks for joining us this evening. we appreciate it. the united states general serious traction this week. we're gonna show you why next. plus, new bombshell reporting on the cia secret war plans against wikileaks. plan against wikileaks. super emma just about sleeps in her cape. but when we realized she was battling sensitive skin, we switched to tide hygienic clean free. it's gentle on her skin, and out cleans our old free detergent. tide hygienic clean free. hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin. this is a gamechanger, who dares to be fearless even when her bladder leaks. our softest, smoothest fabric keeping her comfortable, protected, and undeniably sleek. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you. over the years, mercedes-benz has patented thousands of safety innovations. depend. crash-tested so many cars we've stopped counting. and built our most punishing test facility yet, in our effort to build the world's safest cars. we've created crumple zones and autonomous braking. active lane keeping assist and blind spot assist. we've introduced airbags, side curtain airbags, and now the first-ever rear-mounted front-impact airbags. all in the hope that you never need any of it. ♪ ♪ nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like: try hypnosis... or... quit cold turkey. kidding me?! instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette (burke) i've seen this movie before. 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>> well they are certainly grounds for asking a lot of questions. just how far did some of these proposals go? as we reported, the top of the assassination was in-house. at one point there are requests from the seventh floor, that's where the cia director's offices, for sketches, for her proposals about how it should be done. but these never got forwarded to the white house. i think there was a sort of pretty quick realization that, you know, we can't do. that on the other hand, the abduction, the snatch operation that was pushing, did get all the way to the white house. and did provoke these internal debates within the trump administration that we documented with these. this was one of the more contentious intelligent debates of the trump presidency. and it was all done in secret to public, and no one had any idea what's going. on >> it's absolutely alarming i wanted to actually really quickly, just compare for us how the different administrations throughout your reporting have dealt with wikileaks in terms of how they handle the sod and the head of the organization. obama had self imposed restriction, trump declared that he loved wikileaks but also seem to be taking a harder stance based on what you've been reporting. where do you see president biden fall over the next three years on the issue of julian has hodge and weak links? >> well it's a good question because let's remember, the married garlic by the justice department has appealed the ruling by the british court that assad should not be expected to face trial. so they are standing and so far full scale behind the indictment of has sausage, they want him in u.s. custody. and one of them wrinkled in the piece basically when they were talking about abducting, they didn't have a criminal indictment form so. the white house pushed the indictment to get that indicted. >> michael incredible reporting to your team, and i encourage everyone to read that. so they raise some troubling concern. thank you for making time for us this evening. and of course you can catch me every friday on seven eastern on time, msnbc saturdays, at 8 pm sundays and 9 pm but until we meet again, i'm damon thank you goodnight. who we believe everyone deserves to live better. and just being sustainable isn't enough. our future depends on regeneration. that's why we're working to not only protect our planet, but restore, renew, and replenish it. so we can all live better tomorrow. ♪♪ instantly clear everyday congestion with vicks sinex saline. for fast drug free relief vicks sinex. instantly clear everyday congestion. and try vicks sinex children's saline. safe and gentle relief for children's noses. ♪ feel stuck with credit card debt? 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