business people, you were all saying that would have been such an easy deal to make to cut him in somehow. it just did not happen. >> yeah, when the prime minister breaks out his -- and take two shots at the french who were generally upset of this deal the way they were handled as close ally. president biden pivoted a bit talking to president macron. they made assurance. privately joe, some people at the white house are admitting behind the scenes this was mishandled. there is some finger pointing going on that as you say would have been an easy thing to say. we understand you have this deal with austria. we'll do a deal but we'll take care of you on the other end and here is how we are going to do it. >> it's happening and it sounds like they get something patched up yesterday. >> they did. here at the white house a lot is going on. president biden met with lawmakers in an attempt to get the caucus to look past divisions and support his agenda. that will includes the $3.5 trillion spending bill and infrastructure bill. with his first meeting it was with democratic leaderships and he spoke with a group of moderate democrats including joe manchin of west virginia and kirsten sinema, his final meeting was with progressives, and congress leaders and congresswoman jayapal of washington, the white house and democratic leaders said they were positive meetings but the promise deadline to vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill is days away and several senators have come out in support of the plan by how progressives to vote against that bill if reconciliation is not done in tandem, they got to get it together. >> they really do. >> one party, right? >> just one. >> this is a one party fighting. >> one job. >> one job, get in done. jonathan lemire, anna palmer. jonathan, the president has meeting at the white house to say any progress made? are we still talking about at the end of the day getting the end bite to joe manchin. >> there is no deal done yet. there is no top line number yet agreed to yet. >> is there movement? >> manchin told reporters afterwards that biden, the president basically said give us a number you can live with, give us a number to the moderates. what can we do to get your votes. they're threatening to tank's monday's lows to the house. it's a question of margins being so thin and the interests from the different sides. there is still as the people i have talked to white house's aides coming out with a little more hope and firmly believe that the democrats would not sink of the agenda of their own president of the party. >> anna, from the outside looking in, i can't imagine the democratic caucus not the end of the day coming together because there is gridlock. if democrats put in power of the white house, the house and the senate and they control their own destiny and there is still gridlock and nothing's happening? we know they're going to be in the minority for the next four or six or eight years. >> washington is working in a difficult way. i think jonathan's point, biden was in a deal-making mode yesterday but we didn't get a deal done. i would turn everybody's attention away from the white house and that's speaker pelosi. she's the one in truly deal-making mode. there is a lot of distrusts. joe manchin may be the guy hey, we are ready to do something, don't holdup infrastructure. progressives do not trust them. they think that's code for giver us infrastructure and maybe reconciliation does not happen. >> what can we live with? >> i am not sure. the civil war we described during the campaign within the democratic party has made itself known now in the process of government, it seems to be. >> it seems progressives have been so disciplined and supportive in so many ways. it makes sense they would told a lie in this way. representativ jayapal, there is a sense they're going to draw the line with this. >> i wonder though, they're all in the same team. i mean they're all in the same party. they all see the consequences of losing, right? the consequences of ling kevin mccarthy and a lot of ill people who have shown contempt for the basic tenants of liberal democracy, western style democracy who have covered up what happened on january 6th, who have refused to have any hearings on january 6th, who condemned donald trump on january 6th but then backed off -- the stakes are a little too high for them. i am sorry, i am sorry. i know i am going to hear a lot of people being self-righteous. allowing the bill of $2.5 trillion or 2.75 trillion instead of $3.5 trillion, i am not pushing progressives. they are extraordinary patient over the last five months. they let one or two moderates basically take all the headline. i get their frustration but at the end of the day, do you let the party that blocked the january 6th investigations win here? that's it if you don't get a deal. nobody is going to be happy in this deal. even $2.5 trillion is going to be too much for sinema and manchin, right? >> probably. it's a ton of money. so, how do they get together and maybe figure this out behind closed doors? >> i think first you have to generate trust, right? remember the infrastructure bill was not passed in the senate unless there was an agreement these two bills are going to move in tandem. we should be talking to the moderates. how are they conceiving? the trust issues that we just brought up. >> what about jim clyburn. he says maybe $2.5 trillion? >> let's talk and bring it home to kitchen table issues. >> you need to spend $100 on it and you are going to whine up spending $200. we know the problems that the country faced are huge and tremendous. we know the way in which we govern over the last 40 years led to the erosion of a safety net that covid-19 revealed over and over again. >> right. >> what does it mean in this moment of crisis that we are hearing the same language, the same approach and rhetoric that is defining the last 40 years from the democratic side. >> we got to hold our ground. >> with all respect though. we have already moved beyond the reagan era. you look at the trillions of dollars that we spent last year, the trillions of dollars this year? my god and the reagan era even in the '90s. we are talking trillions and trillions of dollars and there is and i have been warning about this for 25 years and let me just say i have been wrong for 25 years. but inflation has finally reared its ugly head. who does inflation hurt at the end of the day? not rich people because they get more returns on their billions of dollars in the banks. interest rates go up, they just sit there and the capital makes more capital. it's the working poor and the middle class. i don't think we are doing what we have done the last 30 years or 40 years, since $2.5 trillion on top of another trillion dollars and another $3.5 trillion. how much did we spend on covid and stimulus. >> and on top of $1.9 trillion. >> i think he was saying billions. trillion here and there after a while. that adds up, right? >> sure, just quickly though, to spend the initial amount of money, that scale of money was actually a consequence of our failure to invest in human infrastructure. >> right. >> it's precisely because of the absence o f a robust safety that we had to spend as much money we have in response to covid. >> i see. >> now we are in this moment where we can reimagine our relations and obligations to each other, it seems to me we need to put a place in robust. at the end of the day, you say always, you said three parts, democratic party, and nancy pelosi's party. may be father. >> right now there is such incredible amount on congress' plate with the biden's agenda hangs on the ballot. there is a debate over the debt ceiling and the government could run out of money and shutdown. that's great. >> yes. those deadlines coming out and one of them in about a week. yesterday, six former treasury secretaries told congress to raise or suspend the u.s. debt ceiling or risk what they call serious economic and national security harm. george w. bush and obama administration wrote a letter to other congressional leaders if congress does not take action, it could undermine trust. janet yellen is pushing for congressional action warning over the weekend of a quote, "historic financial crisis," they will not offer a single vote to do it. >> my advise to the democratic government, the president, the house, and the senate, don't play russian roulette with our economy. step up and raise the debt ceiling to cover all that you have been engaged in so no effort to describe our position as irresponsible makes any sense because the facts are indisputable. >> are you willing to let the government shutdown all of you? >> i am not going to vote to raise the debt ceiling. these are the decisions democrats are going to make. >> anna, help us understand the strategy and square the circle. yes, the debt ceiling should be raised. we believe that. not a single one of us is going to vote to do that. mitch mcconnell has been clear the last couple of months on this issue. he had said time and again, republicans are not going to do this. >> he just put it out there in terms of what they're going to do and the fact is democrat haves for the past two month haves gone around this whole issue saying we are going to make the argument. this is not political science. i am not in college, you know? they're going stunningly close to not only shutting down, we are one week away. they can raise it their own, reconciliation can become really difficult the closer it gets to that deadline. >> i have no clean hands here. i voted against the raising of debt ceiling. we would do it as a group. and of course would get run over by both parties. we would be in the middle of the road saying cut this, move towards balancing the budget or whatever or we are not going to vote to raise it in both parties would run over. so in this case, though, you know, willie, as long as republicans don't block the democrats raising debt ceiling. it's one of those things that we always talked about back when i was in congress. it's one of those things there was nothing more than a cheap throw away line on the campaign trail. nobody cared about it. the people in power responsible for raising the debt limit and get back together and do your job. get your bills done. >> yeah, they only got a week to figure it out now. social security post-games could stop going out and it gets ugly pretty fast. mika and joe, this is one piece the white house is dealing with right now whether the debt ceiling or massive piece of legislation or managing france, u.k. and austria around this big submarine deal. >> a lot of trust issues. the white house says president biden and emanuel macron will meet in europe next month following france's anger over the new u.s. submarine deal with austria. the two leaders spoke on the phone yesterday for the first time since the deal was announced last wednesday. the white house released a joint statement afterwards reading in parts. the two leaders agreed the situation would benefited open consultations among allies of matters of strategic interests of france and our european partners. the two leaders decided to open a process of in-depth consultations and proposing concrete measures towards common objectives. france also says its ambassadors to the u.s. wills return to washington next week after being recalled for the first time ever. the french ambassador was recalled on friday in response to being left out of that deal between the u.s. and austria which the french foreign minister describes as a quote, "nice in the back" and following yesterday's phone call between president biden and macron, the two sides announced the ambassador's return saying he'll begin to work intensively with senior u.s. officials and the conversations was about 30 minutes long. there was a lot of work there to try to make immense. the view that the ambassador according to sources here at the white house is a really constructive partner and can help piece it back together. he's been helpful. they say when he comes back here perhaps the two leaders will meet here as well. but, until then high level of members of the national security team will meet with their french counter parts consistently to make sure there is constant communications, making it clear that france plays a very important role and that this won't happen again. basically, the white house is saying we are turning the page, things could have been better. consistent communications along the way. that was addressed. the bottom line is president biden will meet with president macron soon. possibly some where around the g-20, kind of a reset in a 30 minute phone call with clear plans moving forward. >> well, a 30-minute phone call and ambassador fear of "morning joe," most people will look at it is a "morning joe" summit at the end of the day. >> jonathan, i guess it sounds okay if it's okay with the french is okay for now as long to say move forward in a constructive manner. what can you tell us about how this went down and whose decisions it was and who told the president, hey, i got a great idea, why don't we keep our oldest allies out of this and stiff them $60 billion. >> the line is would benefited from open consultations. that's as close as it goes that we mess this up. it was a close held move there to not loop in the french that they want to get this done. they figured the french would be okay with it or their feathers would be ruffled but they don't have a long-term damage. >> who thought that? >> jake sullivan did? >> this is something they could do and they thought it was the right thing to do and they wanted to keep it close held and with austria. >> why would they think it's okay to stab our partners in the back? it was $61 billion deal. they had to know it would humiliate macron at home and increase la pence's power at home and put him back to his hills as he's moving towards an election. i can't begin to fathom how people would draw that conclusion after we have been -- on the show how badly donald trump treated our allies. >> they should have been handled better. they did not take into account of macron's situation. >> i don't mean to press, i don't know how anybody can be blindsided? you are sitting in the white house and you can't figure it out? >> we have been worried about france. we have been worried about liberalism in france. we have seen macron's standing go down. we have seen him as an ally who's been a champion of the nato alliance and a champion of the western democracy. i am curious who was so blind around anybody could be so blind to do that with your closest allies. if you are going to have a job whistling to the president telling him you better get it right, it's blunder. >> it's over estimation as the idea that europe would be okay with the idea, hey, america is back now. it's not trump anymore, it's biden. >> so we can run over europe the way trump ran over europe. >> let's not forget that it comes over the hills to come out of afghanistan. nato and french is a big partner there correctly. this is a bit of a foreign policy mess. we are not going to compare with the biden administration of where they were with trump. and yesterday's call did go a long way to calm things down. two presidents are going to meet either in italy or scotland. they'll have some time and have some differences. this comes as a moment where the u.s. perhaps has not restored the trust its spot among european allies. >> willie, i guess the line from tom hanks where he kept looking at the toys going "i don't get it, i don't get it," i really don't get it when our european allies have been treated disrespectfully as they have been treated over the past four years when trump was there. you would think our instincts would be bend over backward and do whatever it takes to let them know america is back and we value each and everyone of them as a partner. >> to the extent the white house was surprised by the french's reaction. the french says we are surprised and you are surprised, you blew this deal and humiliated macron who has a tough race coming up over the course of next year with marine le pen being the challenger. i think what we saw yesterday as john has said is emissions from the white house. that statement is as far as they are willing to go. privately mika, they screwed this up. the question is how do they not with those diplomats and understand what would come from the way they handle the french? >> right, the white house and the french are saying -- >> really? >> everything is good now. let's go. moving forward. >> okay. i thought that meant go boss and beat the yankees. >> it means nothing to see here, joe. >> still raining sideways here by the way, still ahead on "morning joe," we'll speak to three democratic lawmakers, with a looming government shutdown. >> and surrounding, she's speaking french. i am used to surround to latin. this does not work. >> oh, joe. >> congresswoman jayapal and senator cory booker is joining us on the heels of their meeting with president biden yesterday. the lack of bipartisan cooperation not only imperils the american economy but they pass forward a meaningful reform. congressman hakeem jeffries is our guest this morning. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. 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again reporting more than 2,000 covid-19 deaths per day. the highest in six months according to data from the johns hopskin's university as of tuesday. covid deaths stands at 2,031. the last time the average daily death toll was over 2,000 was on march first of 1 year. americans are dying from covid-19 from every three seconds. willie. former president bush is planning to hold a fundraiser for liz cheney. the event is being held in dallas. it's a rare campaign for the 43rd president. cheney has faced a number of attacks from former president trump after she voted to impeach trump. cheney vows to fight to keep trump out of office if he ever to run for president again. trump endorsed cheney's opponent, he did that earlier this month. cheney responded by telling trump to quote, "bring it." he condemns not only the people who attacked the capitol but the political leaders who fanned the flames that day. he made an extraordinary speech a couple of days ago at the state of our political culture and now stepping out and doing something he does not do often which is endorsing a candidate. >> yeah, it's pretty interesting and something that members of his own family didn't do instead of embracing his own family to embrace donald trump and his race for attorney general of texas. here liz cheney. she's not pretending that she can get along with donald trump or pretending she can get along with the ill liberal wing of this party who is claiming american democracy does not work if your candidate loses. bush is going all in with her candidacy. it's going to be a fascinating race. >> absolutely. i think we are seeing the future of the republican party in the state of wyoming being played out in realtime here. the heart and soul of what happened to president bush. is it person because cheney is the last name. >> it's interesting if liz cheney again, which i know a lot of progressives who load -- loathe the cheney's name for years. i was talking to curtis anderson yesterday. you and i come from different eras here. you were influenced by the sweep up in the '60s and late '60s, a liberals-liberals and that's what influenced your world. i graduated in '81. reagan era was just starting. i was swept up into that. curt, right now where i see the world is black and white. you have people supporting western style, liberal democracy and you have people who support ill-liberal. not even democracy but ill-liberalism. it's clear cut right now. i can look past a lot of idealogcal differences. >> if you don't hold those commitments, if you are willing to question the very thing that allow you and i to have an argument about what kind of democracy this should be. i am not really interested in you. i view you as a dangerous element. >> right. >> the foundation of our democracy and so within the republican party, you know that the bush republican party have been under attacked the last four or five years. trump has used bush as a whipping boys for all of these years. those republicans who identify with that wing of the party, they need to make that choice. >> and of course, mika, they don't and they try to have it both ways and stand in the middle and somehow still trying to compromise with donald trump, still thinking that maybe if they just stay out of this way or if they just stay visible during this phase of the republican party's collapse that they'll get out of it unscathed. with donald trump and the republican party that nobody gets out of it alive politically. >> yes, i think for 14 years this show has been in the air, you have talked about the political hot stove, don't put your hand on the hot stove twice. they burned themselves literally down to the core at this point and they keep doing it. speaking of congresswoman liz cheney, coming up we'll talk about the new book on how women saved democracy from donald trump. that conversation is straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪♪ ♪ discover card i just got my cashback match is this for real? yup! we 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timing is everything. >> i appreciate it. are you okay? joining us is jennifer ruben. she's the author of the new book titled "resistance." congratulations on the book, set the scene for us because i feel like it start with the women's march and ads, women from the get-go thought something was very, very wrong. >> i hope you are okay there. they really did. i think what happened is rather than sulk or pull the sheets over their heads, they organized and they reached out to other women and beefed up existing organizations. a lot of candidates ran for the first time. others donated for the first time. they became activists and some of them got elected and some didn't. it really was an out poured of democracy. it was a major contributor in 2018 in the midterms and again in 2020. >> hey, jennifer, it's jonathan lemire. first, i will note that i picked a good day not to be at the white house. >> congrats on the book and i want to ask you about the most public and famous woman who stood up to donald trump and that's nancy pelosi. clearly outraged by whatever point he was trying to make. they did not speak the next couple of years after his term. tell us female officials who came to power in the wake of trump's election. >> she had a unique role because of her position and because of her personality and her background. she likes to say she's a mother of five, a grandmother of nine. she knows all about unruly children and people having temper-tantrum and she was onto donald trump. she says her power if you will, her ability to not take any gut from him was based on the fact that she knew she was a little nuts. she used her power with her own members. she really gets into the weed. she knows what they need and like. she's a person who understands her members and what they want better than any elected leaders i have ever seen. it was really, i think her who joined the argument with donald trump and help bring these women who ran for the first time into elevated positions. she made them subcommittee chairman and put them on national security committees. she saw that was the upward path for women and the upward path for herself and she began to put the women on an elevated plain that had not done in the past. you see those movement now beginning to move up and became prominent in the house. >> congrats in the book. >> nancy pelosi believes is all going to be done in terms of leadership. what's next in donald trump is not going away? who's going to fill in that void? >> wow, that's a big one. when i wrote this book, i thought the work is done but of course is not. i don't know if there is a single individual. there is going to be a newhouse speaker and leader. i would keep my eyes on amy klobochar. she's been a deal maker, her stature has risen during the presidential race she ran. she's an impressive person who understands the nitty-gritty. i would keep an eye on her and the vice president is going to be a lot of weight on kamala harris' shoulders as well. >> good morning jennifer, it's willie geist, it's good to see you this morning. you sort of group congresswomen who plays the big role and ocasio-cortez and we have congresswoman jayapal who's going to be on the show as well. we have these moderate groups who don't get much attention and katy porter, for example. what roles have democrats play in "resistance" as you say in the book. >> if you remember, first of all, the five of them called themselves the five bad asses which is saying, five of them together with five other democrats came out relatively late in the first impeachment and really said okay, now we have seen that our democracy is really on the line. we really have to move forward. and that was frankly the most influential thing that tipped nancy pelosi in supporting an impeachment. she was kind of pulling the reigns back on a lot of the progressives up to that point. they have played an important role. they continue to play an important role because in the midterms, for example, in 2018 and going forward, they understand that in these swing districts is people like them that's going to get elected. aoc is terrific but she's in a deep blue democratic. she's not going to bring any seats in. these people are going to win in swing states and they have to bring in other women and candidates up who can conquer these swing states. maybe democrats won in 2018 and lost in 2020. i think they provide a certain balance for the party and centerness. i think going forward, those are the people to keep an eye on. if they win, whoever the next speaker is will be speaker and if they lose those seats, kevin mccarthy. >> the new book is "resistance," jennifer ruben, thank you. when we talk about this. i said after election night that it was beautiful and it was one of the most beautiful things i had seen in american democracy. something that nicole hanna jones have said. it has been black people who have been the perfecters of democracy, that it was black women who saved madison's democracy. it was black women who saved jefferson's democracy. just so people don't think i amover over stating this, from a political movement led by a president who was trying to get his attorney general arresting his opponent. two weeks before the election. don't tell me i am being mellow-dramatic, it's black women in south carolina that got joe biden under the general election and it was black women in georgia and black women in michigan and black women in pennsylvania that in my opinion at least saved western democracy from trumpism and a man trying to delegitimatize american democracy unless he was one who won the election. >> exactly, when we look at the race and the turnout, black women are the corner stone of the democratic party. they deployed their power. there is a reason why kamala harris is the vice president o f the united states. there were pressure brought to bear. they demanded not only to be at the table because they were making the table possible. it's really important for us to complicate things. how women save democracy. we have to talk about all those white women who voted for donald trump and the complicated nature of the american landscape so we don't overgeneralize. >> still ahead, congresswoman jayapal. she remains committed to advance the president's agenda. along with the majority of the progressive caucus, she says she will only vote for infrastructure after reconciliation passes. she joins us ahead following her meeting with the president here at the white house. joe. >> i want to get your shot. willie, you remember the scene in "the devil wears prada," that's what it looks like behind mika there, it keeps pouring more and more. >> we got to get the animal 2 by 2 there. it reminds me of redemption where he was looking up at the sky and it's raining that hard. >> i tried to fix myself up but i thought that literally i would start a fire so rodney who's been here for 30 years gave me his hat so we'll go with that. >> 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neighbors living across the street from the laundri's home. >> they seem like a normal young couple hanging out. >> reporter: laundri would go on walks with his parents and sometimes with gabby, too. >> reporter: are you surprised they did not contact authorities with brian being missing. >> i can't imagine my kids saying i am going on a hike and he was not home. >> reporter: with laundri still missing, petito's family no closer to the answer they desperately seek. coing up, we'll speak to congressman hakeem jeffries. we are back in two-minutes. ngre. we are back in two-minutes ice cream is like whooping cough, it's not just for kids. whooping cough is highly contagious for people of any age. and it can cause violent uncontrollable coughing fits. ask your doctor or pharmacist about whooping cough vaccination because it's not just for kids. 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>> mika, thank you so much, great to see you. hope you are safe, please stay safe out there. it was a really important and productive meeting. we congratulated the president on stepping into make sure that we are all working on delivering the beyerty of his agenda to his desk. that's what he wanted as well. we have been clear from the time he laid back the build back better for congress which includes things like child care and free leave and making sure we are taking on that climate change issue that we are seeing across the country. all of these things are critical. that was his message yesterday. we need to deliver both infrastructure bill and reconciliation bill in his desk because we can't leave people behind. >> how important can democrats work together and further charged as moderates and progressives can meet in the middle. it would make both sides uncomfortable in some ways. >> i think that's really important. that's one of the messages that we also talked about. bipartisan infrastructure bill was crafted by senators and mostly moderate senators. there's really no by-in from the house. i told members in congress agreed and even though there are things in that bill that are not good from our perspective. every single one of our members intend to vote for that bill as long as we first complete the reconciliation package. that was the deal that came out of the senate. it was the reason that every democratic senator including progressive champions in the senate voted for that because they were given that assurance that in the house the two would move together. i think we are very close, i feel optimistic we are going to get this done and we are going to deliver the president's agenda to his desk so that people wake up and see these transformational investments that you know allow them to feel optimistic about government and about their futures. >> john podesta and chair director, every democratic member of congress on wednesday messaged to progressives to scale down the price tag of the $3.5 trillion plan. the moderates who were trying to pass the smaller infrastructure bill. he wrote, you are either get both bills nor neither. the prospect of neither is unconscionable. by the way, i am going to say, i keep talking about progress pro will have to get out with the rest. let's be clear here, they are operating in bad faith. they know they are not part of this and they know it's never going to happen. they are playing for their district at home and they are playing right into the republicans' hands. >> the real question that i have for congresswoman jayapal. can you talk about what is your must-dos and can it get done by sunday ormond where the speakers really trying to have that deadline set. >> well, anna, i think we have laid out what we have want. now what we need to hear back and this is the president's message to the moderate group that he met with but he told us this is what he asked for. they need to come up with what they want and that negotiations start. so far we have gone through the entire process in the house and committees and we have worked with the senate and white house to get them on the table. if there are parts of that agenda that somebody want to cut it out, we need to know what they are. it's not a number that's pulled out of the air. that was the president's message. on the second point of the vote, one of the things we said to the president is remember during infrastructure negotiations, it was delayed over and over again. because people needed time to talk to each other and come up with the plan. that's the situation we are in right now. monday is an arbitrary date, it does not need to happen on monday. we can't delay it forever. in order to allow everybody to continue these discussion us that are very important to get every single vote in the caucus on board for the infrastructure bill and for the reconciliation bill. that's what we propose right now. nothing sacred at all. let's get the negotiations continue and let's deliberate everything to the president's desk. we'll be able to say to the country, government works for you. >> there are some deadlines that are less arbitrary, the debt ceiling and the government is running out of funding. there is a lot on your plate right now. >> give us your assessment of where things stand? >> are you willing able to get it all done? >> we will. you can't be in politics without being an optimist or a realist as well. it's over to the senate, we'll see what they do over there. we are relying on the speaker's judgment to tell us what needs to happen here. democrats and republicans have voted for the debt ceiling for a very long time. the republicans were the ones who drove up the debt in the last four years with the gop tax scams. we believe they should also be upgraing the debt ceiling. it's about everything we have already spent. >> all right, thank you so much congresswoman. great having you herement let's new turn to congressman hakeem jefrries. thanks so much for being with us hakeem. >> eddie has the first question. >> congressman, it's always good to see you. where do you think the lines are drawn? everybody is talking about democrats will come together. it seems to be the moderates have their lives they don't want to cross and progressives have their own lives. how do you think you guys will come together to produce infrastructure bill and the reconciliation? >> good morning, it's great to see you. the reason why we are going to come together because fundamentally we all agree on one thing. that the basic american contract which is if you work hard and play by the rules, you should be able to provide a comfortable living for yourself and your family and retire with grace and dignity but far too many americans that contract has been broken. for a wide variety of reasons because of wave stagnations and because of retirement and high cost of healthcare or child care or long-term care or the high cost of a college education. so an oral agreement across the spectrum of the house democratic caucus that these are the challenges we need to confront with the fierce urgency right now in order to build back better. we are working on the specifics over the next few days, we are on track but because we are -- i think we'll get both legislations at the finish line. >> congressman jeffries and members of the progressive caucus have said publicly, there will not be a trillion dollars package. do you believe that to be a good strategy? do you think that $3.5 trillion number needs to be at $3.5 trillion? do you believer there is wiggle room where some moderates have said 2 children and 2.5 children. we have to fix our bridges and roads and mass transportation system and ensure that we can bring high speed incidents all across america, urban america and rural america and suburban america and small town america. we have to take those steps that are outlined within the bipartisan agreement. we have to bring down healthcare and child care cost. these are all things that have to be done. if we are going to restore that american dream for the broadest possible squad. of tp american people. i agree we have to continue to proceed on this parallel track. it's not a secret. we outline it from the beginning. that's the way this is going to go down. and i believe that $3.5 trillion number is the appropriate framework number but nothing is agreed upon until everything is agreed upon. the senate can be quirk y situation. >> let's see on the other side of the capitol. >> you are open to that number from 3.5 traditional dollars? >> i think it does not make sense for us to haggle over the number. >> let's get done what we have to get done for the middle class. but, young people for the seniors and aflingted, i think 3.5 is as -- i don't want to get out ahead of anyone else who's involved inside that discussion. >> congressman. always great to have you with us. thank you so much. when we had our 2:30 call this morning and you and i were trying to put this shoi together and mika was told me last night what she wanted to lever with. we waited though an hour and 13 minutes and she's fit to be tied. >> as my grandma would say. we didn't lead with this story. "wild finish," we don't like it but the yankees scored four runs in the eighth to catch up to the twins. >> my gosh. >> as barnacle say dwred, the yankees red sox series is setting up to be the most important and regular season between these two teams and in recent memories. >> they are both playing well right now. the yankees did what they had to do against the rangers as we talked about it yesterday. they got to get their win now because the schedule is so hard now for the entirety of the remaining games here. >> the red sox behind the cardinals, hottest team in baseball. they won seven in a row. they did it again last night. in the yankees had a nice come back win. >> you have toronto playing tonight, you could have going into that series, red sox is up two games there. we hope that does not happen. and the yankees have to head up to toronto. it's tight and nothing is settled. it's all decided in the next week and a half here. >> blue jay is playing tap again? >> no, that serious wrapped up they lost yesterday. they play the twins now i believe over the weekend before that series. >> tampa did win and we should not lose sight of them. they are going to be top seed american league. this series they are setting up to be just them. >> let's use the word excruciating. >> we have a foreign correspondent that's not on the east coast who tweeted to me yesterday. there is a ball team out of yonder called the st. louis cardinals? >> i don't know, i know it's really west of the hudson. >> like the new york coverage. >> that's how we talk about baseball. we do recognize it. let's talk about claire mckaskill with the talent they had this year. they have been under performing like crazy but utah about a tee, they got hot at the right time. this is one of those cardinal teams. cardinals and the giants, the cardinals thing. >> there is a cardinal scene where they ran 82 games. >> this team is looking like that '06. >> their lining is great. they won 11 in a row. they have barring and they'll be the second wild card. >> it's be a loser of the dodgers/giants division great. >> i love these two teams. >> you would not want to see the cardinals winning one game. >> no, that reminds me when the braves were going head to head with the giants. the giants won 103 games. the bravers won 104. the giants stayed home. >> what is it? >> we do talk to the east coast all the time. what is it about the cardinals organization and the giant organization. i mean people need to write books about those two clubs because man, their front office gets it right all the time. >> they got smart people and good gms and good ownership. we joke about it, their games end when we don't wake up. the cardinals are great and los angeles dodgers are great. that's actually the center of power right now in baseball, down at the national league west where you have all the team. >> cardinals have to strangle hold on the second position for the wild card and the national league. the dodgers are great. the giants are great, if i were the damagers i would not want to play in the cardinal. >> i have to say, jonathan, we were tough at the front office in boston. >> yeah. >> even though they trade deadline while the yankees are getting out these great players. they are getting coupons -- any kellogg's -- >> he hit nine home runs. just a mess. i will standby some of our criticisms. the red sox needs to add more pitching. >> the two reliever they have got been okay. >> they more mary-profile yankees edition. he makes that line up so much longer. he's gone a little bit of a slump and heating up to the right time. >> mika, when you see your daughter in washington, she's not going to be happy. >> the- two nights were difficult for me because i know your days in washington, d.c. will be tougher. >> the new york mets just cheering for this pets whaen when they are not playing for the red sox. falling off a clip right now unfortunately. >> she's in a stage of depression about that. if you thought i was shaking my head and you are talking about baseball. i was shaking my head because i wanted to lead with the dog. >> and trenton, new jersey, get this. his name is rookie. >> he ran out of the field causing a brief delay and play before return to the dug-house. i love it. >> perfect. >> he's pouncing. >> i love dogs that do that. he's so happy. >> every time you come to me, it stars raining harder. >> coming up on "morning joe," we still have one more lawmakers to speak with us. cory booker is our guest. >> the vice president americans are turning to in order to cope more than a year and a half of identify during the pandemic. you are watching morning joe. we'll be right back from a rainy washington, d.c. a rainy washington, d.c. discover card i just got my cashback match is this for real? 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absolutely. and that's exactly why you should join. hi, my name is cherrie. ari'm 76 and i liveive? on the oregon coast. my husband, sam, we've been married 53 years. we love to walk on the beach. i have two daughters and then two granddaughters. i noticed that memories were not there like they were when i was much younger. since taking prevagen, my memory has gotten better and it's like the puzzle pieces have all been [click] put together. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. covid ptients are filled in other parts of the hospitals. rooms have been fashioned with makeshift plastic walls. hospital staffers volunteered to sit with dying patients and beds lined the hallways. problem is at the hospitals and er managers, we are running out of hallways. it can't get more critical than that. masks will be required in their temples. the church of jesus christ. the mandate is to prevent the spread of covid has cases continue to increase nationwide. last month, the church strongly advised its members to wear a mask and get vaccinated but had not issued any mandates. over the summer, utah where the churches saw a surge in cases among unvaccinated individuals. joe, that description in montana, is as bad as it gets. they are running out of hallways and they have nowhere to put people. >> it can get worse but it's so stunging that with the vaccines, we are seeing scenes out of montana that we were seeing out of northern italy a year and a half ago when we were scared to death by those scenes and the scenes we saw in new york city, freezer trucks that had bodies in it. and now we find ourselves in a position where one person is dying in america in every 40 seconds. i don't know how it gets politicized. i had dear friends who have had covid that were not vaccinated. and, i had friends of friends and friends of family members who have had covid. everyone who has had it been on the brink, they all said the same thing. it was an in describable experience, it was the worst experience of their life. it was so awful. i don't know how we take the politics out of this. i yank for the people who are suffering now and who could gate shot and not go through this and not have their children go through this. and not leave children behind. not leave family members and loved ones behind. i just don't understand it. again, one person dying every 43 seconds to bliterate a lie that donald trump said the past year, it's not like the flu. it's much worse than the flu. more people died in alabama not because of the flu but because of the pandemic we all prayed americans avoid and there is a way they can avoid dying from covid. >> one in 500 americans are dead now. we are inching towards 100,000 dead. cornell has this phrase, he talks about our response to the carnage of the civil war and how we wanted to move past it, gilded age, the roaring '20s. we want to run past it every 43 seconds. >> jonathan, somehow and some way it gets politicized and this information spreads across the web. there are break through cases. from the beginning people were told 94% or 95% efficacy. maybe it's down to 92% or 93% if you get the moderna shot. that's why the older people are getting boosters. fda's recommending that. but, there is a way out of this for americans. >> there is a way out of this this is not about politics. it's about medicine and science. this is about your family doctor. get off of facebook, talk to your family doctor. turn off cable news shows. go to your family doctor. you don't like what i am saying? you like what somebody else is saying on another channel. turn us both off. go to your family doctor. ask your family doctor, it's pretty simple. >> physicians i believe, healthcare workers, 97% or 98% taken the vaccines themselves and doctors encouraging their patients to do so. it should not be a political issue. on one hand the death rate is so dreadful and terrible and growing worse. there are hopeful signs that the keys' deaths have started to dip. >> maybe some health officials starting to get past the peak of delta variant and children can be in line to get the vaccine in a month or two, that's great news. at the same time we are heading into fall and winter. colder weather. could be combined with a tough flu season. that could be really hard. i would say this in washington right now. i encourage anyone to take a look when the rain lets up. on the national mall for another week or so, they put up little white flags, right now is 760,000. it will be added to this. it goes on as far as i can see. it's stunning and heartbreaking. it's worth paying a visit and to drive home what we all have lost and what we need to do to prevent this. >> we have been through this enough that we should know what's happening. we knew or our people in the deep south should have done when it gets hot, people go inside and it spreads in places like florida, texas, and arizona. it did last year and this year. things are cooling down a little bit, the numbers should be going down there and are going down there. now it's going to happen in the northeast because it's going to get cooler and people are going inside. >> this is not difficult and a conspiracy theory. i hate masks, hate them but i hate getting covid more. if we work together as a country, this could be behind us very soon. >> it's troubling. i just want to say one person dies every 43 seconds. there is no excuse for that happening as we move late into 2021. coming up, a major aim of the president's $3.5 trillion spending plan is to help bridge the nation's inequality gap. that gap is something our next guest says impacted by dna. a nuance conversation about the so-called genetic lottery is straight ahead. "morning joe" is back in a minute. ahead "morning joe" is back in a minute before you go there, or there... start here. walgreens makes it easy to stay protected wherever you go. schedule your free flu shot and covid-19 vaccine today. >> tech: every customer has their own safelite story. this couple was on a camping trip... ...when their windshield got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service you can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ can you be free of hair breakage worries? we invited mahault to see for herself that new dove breakage remedy gives damaged hair the strength it needs. even with repeated combing hair treated with dove shows 97% less breakage. strong hair with new dove breakage remedy. a lot about the massive spending bill being debated here in washington. supporters of the multi trillion dollars legislation say it's critical to address everything from economy and education and social welfare. our next guest makes the argument that we are missing something when it comes to that part of the conversation. she writes in part "i think we must dismantle the false distinction that society is responsible for addressing and inequalities that are caused by differences in biology." joining us now is professor of psychology at the university of texas, director of the developmental behavior genetics lab and codirector of the texas twins project. katherine harden. "why dna matters for social equality," thank you for being on. joe has the great question. >> greatly appreciate it. you touched the third realm it seems. if you even talk about this topic in-depth the way you have, you obviously are going to be intact. you have described yourself as a matthew 25/40 christian. you talked about how this feeling can help us better understand how to help those who are in the most need, can you talk about that? >> yes, you are absolutely right. this is controversial and as you were talking about the coronavirus, as soon as science becomes politicized, it hurts everyone. my goal is to describe honestly as everything i can. what is the science doing right now and the genes you inherit affect your risk. how far are you going in school and contact with the justice system. i think it's important for people to know what science is doing right now and what it does not mean so we can have an honest conversation how to use this for good and avoid the harm that people are afraid of. >> eddie. >> i find your book fascinating in a number of different ways, not only you because you tried hard to distinguish what you are doing, people who want to use these arguments, what follows from me conceding the claim? what follows for me conceing the claim that genetics matter and i am different than my brother and sister. so you may have a 10% to 15% variant because of hi genes and it may be higher because my parents are not college-educated folks. >> well, i think it's important to remember that it's never just genetics or just a social environment. it's always genetics within the context of a social environment. clinical psychologist, i study children. the difference is in what children face. i am interested in what can we do and what are our highest priorities and i see genetics in a lot of way as something to be taken out of the way so we can see development clearer. so let's take it seriously in our science if we are going to be serious about design interventions that's the most effective and seeing who our innovation was working for? >> i was struck by when i took to be your roles and commitments. one of the things is this ignorance. we don't want to get too technical. one of the criticisms is not attended enough to these deep structural life changes, impacting them. what do we make of the complex history that shapes how we live? you may have a different genetic makeup with a different family but you still graduated at a higher rate. that's weird to put it that way. talk to me about this. >> i know where you are getting it there. it can be a source of gratitude and compassion when we think about -- these are the things i thought and i have no control over whatsoever. it's never just genetics. it's how our structure is responding to you and that embied phenotype. what i love is the sign studies that take biology and genetics, what is it to be a woman in education has changed from 1930s to today. how have the same genetics played out differently given social structures. the power structures are responding to the genetics, of course. >> that was interesting. your mentor who does not agree with all of your theories. is that a good way to put it? >> you sent your book to him and you never heard back from him. that had to be so painful after weight and weight and then you finally wrote you back and said congratulations, get ready because this may be the most important book written on this subject. that had to feel pretty remarkable. >> it did. >> talk about that and your mentor. >> yeah, i think my former mentor from the university of virginia which is where i went to graduate school. i think our relationship exempliies what i love about science which is that you can be in a relationship with someone where you don't always have to agree on the right answer but the process of continuing debating and refinding each other's ideas making everyone's ideas stronger. it's a way for us to put the ball forward by. i was stunned how close minded some scientists were. suggesting any discussions of genetics mattering somehow racist and bigoted and going down a path that the nazis went down. seems to me unscientific approach to something that does matter a great deal and we know it matters a great. >> yes, scientists are people. we are subjected to the same fear responses and biases as any other people. i think as the science always have to interrogate, belief and when do i need to update. we need to look past in to our history and think about the danger. what are the danger of limiting people's reproductive rights. they are issues playing out now. i think that fear response is totally normal and understandable. i am asking people to do a lot. i am asking people to unpack a lot of baggages. everyone if everyone is not agreeing with me, we are changing the conversation a little bit. >> we found this so fascinating for a variety of reasons. science have never been neutral. you can imagine the way science were used in order to justify slavery in interesting ways. there was a mistake in shifting the column. there was a correlation of black freedom and sanity in the early 1930s. fascinating. you think the way they have used the dna -- why do this? with the danger and the mind feels in front of you, knowing how this language has been used and bad science has been used. what's the point? >> the point is two things, one is the revolution is already here. >> we are not putting the genetic jeannie back in the bottle. it's proceeding at a remarkable age. >> so i don't think we have a choice between are we going to do genetics or not. i think our choice is we are going to do genetics, are we going to talk about how it can be useful for all children and how we can make this technology not exclusive or are we going to see the conversations to our conversation? >> i think that's a choice. i am trying to call attention to what could be done and who's included in that technology right now. >> the new book is why dna matters for social equality. professor katherine paige harden, thank you so much for being with us. >> those talks fallen apart leeing questions about that high button issues. we'll be talking to senator cory booker ahead on "morning joe." ry booker ahead on "morning joe." oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? 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how many people are being detained? how many people dispersed to all points around america? >> i would be pleased to provide you with that data. >> i want them now. why don't you have that information now? >> i don't have that. >> why not? >> reporter: law enforcement doubling down. so this is where everyone came across? the dam now empty. dhs tells us migrants are making their way towards del rio but it's the other areas that have them worried. >> the biggest concern we still have gaps along the border. we have individuals we don't know who they are, where they're coming from but they're crossing into our country. still ahead, president biden speaks with french president macron attempting to mend fences with america's oldest ally. we'll tell you how that went. plus, senator cory booker of new jersey joins our conversation when "morning joe" comes right back. subway® has so much new, it didn't fit in their last ad. like the new turkey footlong with bacon. they start with their new hearty multigrain bread, then pile on the new deli-style turkey, then top it off with hickory-smoked bacon. time's up again? 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good morning and welcome to "morning joe." i'm at the white house this morning with some sideways rain going here, and we're following all those big developments in domestic and foreign affairs. yesterday president biden met with key congressional democrats in an attempt to find a way forward on his signature plans. can he unite his own party, joe? >> that's a big question. another big question, why did you go to the white house on such a chamber of commerce morning? i think you're just down there having fun. >> i love a good time. >> love a good hurricane. fantastic. willie, not really the message that the french need to hear from an ally who is negotiating behind their back to basically say get over it. i was glad to see that president biden understood that's just not the way friends treat friends. you want to tell them it's a lousy deal and they have diesel subs that sound louder than lobster boats roaring around. that's fine. you can talk about that. but figure out a way to work it in. i was talking to a lot of business people yesterday, all saying that would have been such an easy deal to make, but it just didn't happen. >> when the prime minister goes out of his way to take a shot, two shots at the french who are genuinely and sincerely upset about this deal and the way they were handled as a close ally, it's a strange moment. but president biden has pivoted a bit talking to president macron. they made some assurances to each other. you would have liked to have thought those would have happened sooner before the deal was made public. privately, joe, some people at the white house are admitting now behind the scenes this was mishandled. there is some finger pointing going on that would have been an easy thing to say we understand you had this deal with australia. we want you to know we'll take care of you on the other end and here is how we'll do it. all of that diplomatic work is happening on the back end after this big public international blowup. >> fortunately, mika, it is happening, and it sounds like they got some things patched up yesterday. >> they did. here at the white house a lot going on. president biden met with a parade of democratic lawmakers in the oval office in an attempt to get the caucus to look past divisions and support his economic agenda. that includes the $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill and the $3.5 trillion spending bill. with his first meeting it was with democratic leadership and then he spoke with the group of moderate democrats including key senators joe manchin of west virginia and kirstyn sinema, bernie sanders of vermont and congresswoman of washington, leaders said the meeting -- they were positive meetings but the promised deadline to vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill is just days away and several senators have come out in support of the plan by house progressives to vote against that bill. if reconciliation isn't done in tandem. it's just like they've got to get it together, joe. >> they really do, one party, right? >> just one. >> this is one party fighting. >> one job. >> one job. get this done. let's bring in white house reporter for the ap, jonathan, and professor at princeton jonathan, the president had a meeting at the white house yesterday. any progress made or are we still talking about at the end of the day getting the invite to joe manchin's boat for the announce pt on how this gets taken care of? >> a trio of meetings. the sides are all talking. but, no, there's no deal done yet. there's a sense and we've heard from senator manchin -- >> is there movement? >> there seems to be potential movement. manchin told reporters afterwards that the president said give us a number you can live us. give us a number to the moderates. how big can the reconciliation package go? we know from the progressives they're threatening to tank monday's vote in the house. this is not done yet despite being one party. the margins so thin and the competing interests from the different sides. so still, the white house aides, including some last night, still feel a little more hope, a little more optimism and firm in their belief the democrats wouldn't sink the agenda of a president of their own party, but we're not there yet. >> anna, from the outside looking in, i certainly can't imagine a democratic caucus not at the end of the day coming together, because if there's gridlock -- if democrats are put in power of the white house, the house, and the senate and they control their own destiny and there's still gridlock and still nothing happening, we know they're going to be in the minority for the next four, six, eight years. >> i think to jonathan's point, yes, there was a sense that biden was in deal making mode yesterday, but he didn't get a deal done. i would turn all of everybody's attention away from the white house to one person on capitol hill and that's speaker nancy pelosi. she is truly in deal making mode trying to find a way forward between the progressives and moderates. there's a lot of distrust. joe manchin might be the guy saying, hey, we're ready to do something. don't hold up infrastructure. but the progressives do not trust him. they think that is code for give us infrastructure and maybe reconciliation doesn't happen. >> so what can progressives live with? >> i'm not sure. i know we can't just live with the infrastructure bill as it is, right? >> right. >> the civil war we described during the campaign within the democratic party has made itself known now in the process of governing, it seems to me. progressives have been so disciplined, they have been supportive in so many ways. it makes sense they would toe the line in this way. it seems to me there is a sense they're going to draw the line with regards to this infrastructure. >> i just wonder, though, they're all on the same team. they're all in the same party. they all see the consequences of losing, right? the consequences of losing are kevin mccarthy and a lot of ill liberal people who have shown contempt for the basic tenets of liberal democracy, western-style democracy, who have covered up what happened on january 6th, who have refused to have any hearings on january the 6th, who condemned donald trump on january the 6th but then backed off. the stakes are a little too high for them. i'm sorry. i'm sorry. i know i'm going to hear a lot of people being self-righteous, but allowing a bill to die because it's $2.5 trillion or $2.75 trillion instead of $3.5 trillion, i'm not pushing the progressives now because they've been extraordinarily patient over the last nine months and they let one or two moderates basically take all the headlines. i get their frustration. but at the end of the day, do you let the party that blocked the january 6th investigation win here? that's what you do if you don't get a deal. nobody is going to be happy in this deal. even $2.5 trillion will be too much money for sinema and joe manchin, right? >> probably. >> it will. it's a ton of money. how do they figure this out behind closed doors? >> first you have to generate trust. the infrastructure bill wasn't passed in the senate. it seems we should be talking to the moderates not the progressives. what are they doing? how are they -- what are they -- the trust issues that we just brought up. >> what about jim clyburn? he says maybe $2.5 trillion. >> let's bring it home to kitchen table issues. >> eventually you're going to spend $200 on it, so we know the problems the country face are huge, are tremendous and we know that the way in which we have governed the last 40 years has led to the erosion of a social safety net, made the american people vulnerable, that covid-19 has revealed over and over again. >> right. >> so what does it mean in this moment of crisis that we're hearing the same language, the same approach, the same rhetoric that has defined the last 40 years from the democratic side. we have to hold our ground. >> with all due respect, we've already moved beyond the reagan era. you look at the trillions of dollars spent last year, the trillions of dollars spent this year, my god. in the reagan era even in the '90s when i was in congress would freak over $250 million increase. year over year. we're talking trillions and there is, i've been warning about this for 25 years, and let me just say i've been wrong for 25 years. but inflation has finally reared its ugly head. who does inflation hurt at the end of the day? not rich people because they just get more return on their billions of dollars in the bank, interest rates go up, they just sit there, their capital makes even more. it's the working poor, the working class, the middle class who hurt the most there. so i don't think we're doing what we've done the last 30 years or 40 years. $2.5 trillion on top of another trillion, $3.5 trillion on top of how much money did we spend last year on covid? >> the first bill $1.9 trillion. >> trillion here, a trillion there, after a while that adds up. right? >> sure. really quickly, to spend the initial -- that initial amount of money, that scale of money -- was actually a consequence of our failure to invest in human infrastructure. >> right. >> it's precisely because of the absence of a robust social safety net that we had to spend as much money as we have in response to covid. >> i understand. >> now that we can imagine our obligation to each other as citizens, the role of government in our lives, we need to put in place a robust social -- you said three parts. democratic party, the republican party and the insurrectionist party. there might be four, joe, and we're seeing it evidenced right now. >> and that's not the only thing congress is juggling right now. the deadline to raise the debt ceiling is quickly approaching, and neither side is giving ground. the latest on that fight is next on "morning joe." woo! you are busy... working, parenting, problem solving. at new chapter vitamins we've been busy too... innovating, sourcing organic ingredients, testing them and fermenting. fermenting? 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all of you? >> i am not going to vote to raise the debt ceiling. this is the decision democrats are going to make. >> anna, help us understand this strategy, square the circle. yes, the debt ceiling should be raised. we believe that at our core but not a single one of us is going to vote to do that. >> i think mitch mcconnell has been clear on this, you the last couple of months. he has said time and again republicans are not going to do this. it's not intellectually necessarily a salient put. he just put it out there in terms of what they are going to do. democrats have dilly dallied around this whole issue saying we're going to make the argument to them. this isn't political science. i'm not in college. they're going stunningly close to not only a shutdown but the debt ceiling and the maneuvers with which they can raise it on their own, reconciliation, become very difficult the closer it gets to the deadline. >> as is usually the case, i have no clean hands here. i voted against the raising of debt ceiling. we would do it as a group and would use it as leverage. we would get run over by both parties so we would be in the middle of the road saying cut this, move to balancing the budget or else we will not raise it and both parties would run over us. in this case willie, as long as -- my feeling is as long as the republicans don't block the democrats raising the debt ceiling, raise the debt ceiling. it's one of those things that we always talked about back when i was in congress, one of those things nothing more at the end of the day than a cheap throwaway line on the campaign trail. nobody ever cared about it. the people in power for responsible for the debt limit raised it, then get back together and do your job. get your bills done. >> yeah, and they only have a week to figure it out. that's next friday. social security payments could stop going out. you stop paying back some of your creditors. it gets ugly pretty fast. mika, this is one piece that the white house is dealing with right now whether it's the debt ceiling, or, of course, now managing france, the uk, australia on this big submarine deal. >> that's right, willie. we'll talk about that dustup straight ahead. plus, a climate scientist makes the case for hope in a divided world. 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whose decision was it? who told the president, hey, i have a great idea, why don't we keep our oldest ally out of this and stiff them $60 billion? >> well, certainly the line is who would have benefitted from open consultations? that's as close in white house speak as "we messed this up." certainly they should have indicated to the french ahead of time this deal was coming. there's no talk that jake sullivan was involved in the original decision. it was a close-held move there to not loop in the french, that they wanted to just get this done. they figured the french would be okay with this. feathers would be ruffled but wouldn't have a long-term damage to the relationship. they were taken aback. >> who thought that? >> a number of people in the white house. >> jake sullivan did? >> he and people around him and others on the team believe this was in consultations with the state department, something they could do. they felt it was the right thing to do. they wanted to keep it close held and to announce this deal with australia and -- >> why would they think it would be okay to stab our partners in the back? >> i think -- >> i mean, it was a $61 billion deal. they had to know that it would humiliate macron at home. they had to know it would increase power at home. they would have to know this would put him back on his heels as he's moving toward an election. i can't even begin to fathom how anybody could draw that conclusion that's how allies are treated after we've been bitching on the show how badly donald trump treated our nato. >> a lot of people i've talked to in the white house, yes, this should have been handled better. they did not take into account the fact the election is coming up next year, that he could look weak to lose -- >> i don't mean to press this, i just don't know how anybody could be blind sided. you're sitting in the white house and you can't figure that out? like we've been worried about france. we've been worried about ill liberalism in france. we've seen macron go down, a champion of the nato alliance and a champion of western democracy. i'm just curious who was so blind or how anybody could be so blind to do that to one of your closest allies? i'm not jumping on anybody, but if you're going to have a job whispering to the president telling him what to do, you'd better get it right. and this was just a real blunder. >> it's an administration wide blunder, perhaps an overestimation that europe would just be okay with it. hey, america is back now. it's not trump anymore. it's biden and, therefore, we're going to go along -- >> so we can run over europe the way trump ran over europe? >> let's not forget it comes on the heels of the decision to come out of afghanistan, which nato, of course french a big partner there, also felt like was not done correctly, there was not enough open consultation. so, yeah, this is right now a bit of a foreign policy mess. now, again, we're not going to compare where things are with the biden administration and where they were with trump and no one will say the relationship is that strained. conversations did go a long way to calm things down. they will meet at one of the summits coming up, will have some time, hash out some differences. nothing agreed to yet, perhaps some sort of make good. but this comes at a moment where the u.s. perhaps has not restored the trust it sought among its european allies. and coming up, senator cory booker is standing by. he joins the conversation next on "morning joe." trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze drifting on by you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ it's a new dawn... ♪ if you've been taking copd sitting down, it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy. and save at trelegy.com. usaa is made for the safe pilots. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy. like mac. who can come to a stop with barely a bobble. with usaa safepilot, when you drive safe... ...you can save up to 30% on your auto insurance. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. get a quote today. before treating your chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month each lasting 4 hours or more, you're not the only one with questions about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start, with about 10 minutes of treatment once every 3 months. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you, and if a sample is available. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. in a survey, 92% of current users said they wish they'd talked to their doctor and started botox® sooner. plus, right now, you may pay zero dollars for botox®. ask your doctor about botox® today. the big takeaway from the summit is that biden wants world leaders to fully vaccinate 70% of their population. and world leaders were like, okay, you first. and let's bring in democratic senator cory booker of new jersey. senator, how are you doing this morning? >> i'm doing well. it's great to be back on, joe. >> it is always great talking to you, senator. so i have jonathan lemire here from the ap. he has some breaking news. why don't you tell us the breaking news, and we'll get the senator's reaction. >> sure. the special envoy of the united states for haiti has offered his resignation, senator, including in a letter to secretary of state blinken and said he will not be, quoting from the letter now, he will not be associated with the united states' inhumane, counterproductive decision to deport thousands of immigrants to haiti and goes on about how the conditions there are so tough and that he would not be part of the policy. right off the top, can we get your reaction to this? >> i think it's an honorable thing for people to make principled stands on policy. right now it has not for years reflected our best values. we are the nation that says we welcome the wretched refuse of the poor, the hungry, and in this case we see a massive crisis in haiti as we have in other areas like cuba. we should be opening our arms to folks who are in crisis. donald trump called it an s-hole country, we should have policies frankly that understand not only is it an act of humanitarian aid but we know immigrants in our country add tremendous amounts to our economy and this is a really tragic, sad moment to see what's going on in our country right now. >> senator, we have a humanitarian crisis at the border. we've had that for some time now. a record number of people streaming across the border. immigrants streaming across the border at the border. how do we move beyond this? how do we bring some order to this chaos? >> well, you know, i listened to groups typically on the right on this, and you have everyone from the business roundtable and the national chamber of commerce and others saying the practical impact of allowing immigration, reforming our immigration system, literally from the food we eat every single day all the way to the businesses and entrepreneurs that are starting companies in our country. our immigration laws are hurting america. if we had done in 2013, months before i came to the senate, that comprehensive immigration reform that passed in a bipartisan fashion through the senate, if that was the law of the land, we would have already brought in trillions of dollars into our economy. and so this is a self-inflicted wound to our morals and values to allow this crisis not just at the border but what's happening to dreamers in our country and their families, to people on temporary protective status. they are living in crisis right now. and we need to solve this immigration problem with common sense solutions that the majority of americans on both sides of the aisle support. >> good morning, senator. it's good to have you on. it's willie geist. let me ask you about police reform, an issue you've been working on months and months and months. we've heard you and senator tim scott, the republican from south carolina, are close on a deal that would set some national standards for policing. yesterday we hear those talks collapsed and are all but dead. is that a fair way to characterize it? and, if so, what happened? it seemed like you were so close for a while there. how did they fall apart? >> if you ever told me a year ago that we would have gotten the fraternal order of police, biggest police union in america, to agree with us on policing reform, issues like mental health, high levels of transparency we so urgently need, would have raised professional standards in a way to help the profession. we came so far in getting major police groups onboard. we had a gulf between us we could not close. this week when i saw the trump executive order that said we should have national accreditation standards and consequences for communities who won't live up to those standards, you don't get federal grants, federal dollars, it wasn't something senator scott would support even the trump executive order which is the law of the land now. we are not closing. we need to move on. >> let me read to you the statement from senator scott. he said this of the impasse. quote, i offered to introduce a bill that included our areas of compromise -- a bill that activists and law enforcement alike could have supported. despite having plenty of agreement democrats said no because they could not let go of their push to defund our law enforcement. what's your response, senator? >> i have love for tim. he and i have done a lot of good work together. whether it's helping to expand sickle cell, we fundamentally agree. i'm not going to get into a partisan accusation this is about two of the very few black people have served in the united states senate, have had humiliating experiences with police, guns drawn, accused of stealing things, an effort to where we could have comprehensive police reform. it did not happen. i believe fundamentally we have to have transparency in policing. we have to have accountability. we must have higher professional standards. we weren't there. it's clear we weren't there. a lot of the stories show we still had gulfs between us. we need to find another way. i was in the oval office talking to president biden. he is committed to moving as far as possible through executive action. and we will continue to work at this. it took so many tries before we got comprehensive civil rights legislation. i'm not going to give up doing the work until we can have a day in america where you don't have entire communities that fear the police because of these awful killings and beatings, unjustified actions being taken. this is the beautiful thing about it because we planted seeds now. when the head of the fop and i have become friends and agree broad based on so many reforms, that's a sign of progress. we just need to get some republican part ininers in, the head of the largest police union there is. >> so, senator, you've heard, i'm sure, over the last several months from many of your progressive friends, look, republicans will never really vote in favor of meaningful overhaul of policing in the united states. do you believe at the end of the day, as you say, these talks have collapsed for now, that republicans were negotiating in good faith through this? >> again, i have a friendship with the people i was negotiating with and i trust. i did not feel like that trust was betrayed at the negotiating table. i felt like this fell apart because, again, of different philosophies. i think from civil rights to suffrage, the federal government has a role to play. in holding police departments accountable at a significant level. we could not agree on those basic issues and that's why this came apart. we have to stop demonizing us with broad partisan swaths. it is not going to be constructive. we have to keep demanding and all of those activists, the largest civil rights demonstrations in the history of our country in communities that didn't even have minority populations of any significance, we have to deliver on meaningful police reform or we will be back here discussing the continued videotapes that are being captured of unarmed african-americans unjustly killed or beaten. we have work to do and i will not stop in that pursuit. >> senator booker, you're taking the high road and you're being bipartisan and i think most americans are grateful for that. however, i'm looking at tim scott's statement, and while you're taking the high road, he's accusing you of defunding the police, like this is a bumper sticker from a political campaign instead of a serious bipartisan negotiation, a process, where you continue to act in good faith. can i just ask you, first of all, is there anything in this bill -- because, let me say, again, i want to be careful that i get this right. tim scott said he couldn't agree with you because democrats want to, quote, defund law enforcement. what part of this deal has anything to do with defunding law enforcement? >> well, again, if anybody wants to look at the deal we struck with the fraternal order of police and the chiefs of poe lows and other law enforcement leaders there was significant money, hundreds of millions of dollars, to help with the challenges of the profession. we have police officers that are put in mental health pressure cookers without the kind of supports that they need. we need to be doing a lot of record collection that we're not. we can't federally mandate that without providing resources for that transparency. so my work product in these nine months speaks for itself. we want to get resources to our police, make the profession stronger and better. that's why the fraternal order of police came onboard. they would not have endorsed a bill that was defunding the police. it's absurd that this has to stop. >> so tim scott is now saying that the fraternal order of police are supporting a bill that defunds the police? it's such outrageous language, such bad faith language. it's shocking. despite having plenty of agreement, democrats said no because they could not let go of their push to defund our law enforcement. i want to know why the fraternal order of police would support legislation that would defund the police. and if that's not the case, is senator scott lying? >> look, you and i both worked in this town -- >> yeah, i still don't like people lying about me. >> right. >> right? >> right. >> do you like him lying about you? >> you know what, i learned a long time ago, and you know this, joe, because you operate this way, if i let my ego or my wounds of the names people call me, i wouldn't make as much progress in this town. i wouldn't. i've worked with lindsey graham, with comprehensive criminal justice reform with jared kushner. i could go through the people on the right that i've worked with who, if i was salty and let my ego get wound up in what they called me, we would have never gotten to the work. at the end of the day i live in an african-american community. i live with people every single day who have life urgencies that are so much bigger than my ego being upset about the name calling going on. i have to focus on delivering for folks. i have big bills on my wings with partners on the other side. that's how things get done and i'm not going to descend to name calling with fore guy i have so much in common with through lived experience, who we have actually done big things in this town together. i'm not going to respond to any personal attacks at all. >> i guess you're right because of how much you worked together, i guess that's why i'm shocked that he would resort to bumper sticker slander the way he has. and we have eddie glaude here. i've heard republicans behind the scenes over the last six months rave -- people in the trump administration -- rave about cory booker and the fact that he's willing to reach across the aisle and compromise and do things that they didn't think democrats would do. and senator booker has done that. and what does he get? he gets a slap in the face and a lie saying that he wants to defund the police. >> well, i understand senator booker's orientation in this regard because he has to work -- >> and i respect him for it. i totally respect him for it. it's still shocking. >> i love him for it. >> amen. >> this is an example of bad faith. and this is what makes bipartisanship so difficult. cory, senator booker, so great to lay eyes on you this morning. i want to ask you this question, though. what does it mean that we're not delivering again? so there's the question around $15 minimum wage, the question around fundamentally addressing police reform. what does it mean that the democratic party seems to be in this moment not delivering again because we invested in bipartisanship again? >> right. so i sat in the white house yesterday and watched animated president talk to me about racial justice, which was something -- eddie, you and i have had this conversation -- so delightful i'm sitting in the oval office and we're talking about the urgency of this moment, to cut child poverty, the violence of poverty in half in the black community by expanding the child tax credit and and in this reconciliation package making sure that we make it permanent, the full refund ability, it's not sexy, that's a big thing. to sewelly deal with the maternity mortality rate where black women are four times more likely to die in childbirth than white women. i understand voting rights, i understand police reform, those are things we live and are thinking about every day, but the sausage making that i'm involved right now and the impact of getting led pipes and surface lines out of communities because the number one indicator of community in america of whether or not you live around environmental toxins is the color of your skin. that real work still goes on. i'm not going to torch and burn down my partners on these issues when at the end of the day there are people in this country that urgently need the work to get done. am i disappointed, because we haven't swept the table, yeah, but i understand that politics is often a game of incremental changes and our leaders, our heroes, james baldwin to fannie lou hamer understood that sometimes it takes a long time but we will be arc benders to get that arc of the moral universe bent more towards justice in our lifetime. >> senator booker, jonathan again. last question. you mentioned that you were in the oval office yesterday, you met with the president and there's certainly a lot on the plate right now in terms of getting these deals done, the reconciliation package, real differences within your own party as to how big that should be, how that's going to get done, when it's going to get done and a looming government shutdown perhaps. how do you get all of this done? i know you're looking forward to an expansion of the child tax credit. what's the appetite for that? how can this all be put together when you have people in your own party saying we've gone too far already? >> again, this is the time and i think this is where the president literally had moderates walking out and a bunch of us that lean more progressive walking in, one of those is a friend of mine, mark warner, who even after that we were on the senate floor discussing that we cannot miss this moment. everybody understands this country and democrat and republican presidents from eisenhower and the highways, the people who built canals and railroads, the people who pointed to the moon, the whole mainframe industry and computer was done because of massive government investments. there is a moment here in america that will not come back possibly for a generation where we have to be bold again and i think the president understands that, i think moderates in our party mostly get that and we're going to have to find a way to press forward because the most valuable natural resource on the planet now in a global knowledge-based economy is the genius of children and to being the only nation that doesn't have a paid family leave, afghanistan and the congo have paid family leave. to not have affordable child care. there is a lot of issues that we have to seize right now if we are going to stay as a nation leaders on everything from green technology and infrastructure all the way to manifesting in our country this fertile soil, the geniuses that are going to lead humanity in the future. >> all right. senator cory booker, as always it's great having you on this show. thank you so much. we really do appreciate it. >> thank you. you know, eddie, just to finish up, i don't -- i don't expect republicans to go along with democrats or democrats to go along with republicans just to do something bipartisan, right? i mean, there's a lot of things democrats pass that i disagree with and there are a lot of times i didn't agree on democratic bills where -- or republicans wouldn't and liberal media would attack them for just not going along with democrats or meeting democrats halfway to a bad idea, but in this case what bothers me is that it's just such bad faith. to talk about defunding the police after tim scott and cory booker sat down, did the hard work for months. you know, i talked about the united states treating france badly by not getting them in there. there's a way to do things, right? >> yeah. >> and you just see a statement like this and it reminds me of kasie stengel who said looking at the mets in i think it was '62, can't anyone around here play this game? it's just not that hard. what was it worth to lie about cory booker? what was it worth to go low with a stupid bumper sticker saying that is divorced from reality? what was it worth to say -- for tim scott to say that his partner in these negotiations put together a bill with him that the fraternal order of police supported that he now claims dee funds the police? >> and, remember, joe, really quickly, remember the footage we were circulating a couple weeks ago of cory booker in the well of the senate -- in the floor of the senate accepting an amendment saying we can finally put to rest this idea that democrats want to defund the police. >> yeah. >> we had the footage and look where we are. >> i know. willie geist? >> well, let's turn to the issue of climate change, it's been front and center at the united nations general assembly this week in new york. joining us now chief scientist for the nature conservancy from texas tech university catherine aho. professor, thanks so much for being with us. the message of your book really is about the conversations we have with each other about climate change and what to do about it, reminds me a lot of the conversations we have had on this show about talking to people about getting the vaccine. how do you reach out? how do you cross the political divide? so with the facts now not in dispute any longer and haven't been for some time about a changing climate, how do you have those conversations to bring people along? >> you have to begin those conversations with something you share rather than something that drives you apart. something that connects directly to your heart more than your head. and if we don't know how to begin those conversations we have to get to know each other a little bit first. i've begun conversations over simple things like the fact that i'm a mom or the place that i live, the market that i'm a christian or love doing things outside. when it all comes down to it climate change affects us all and when a hurricane comes it does not knock on our door and ask us who we voted for in the last presidential election before it floods our home. >> we were having this conversation yesterday with john kerry the special envoy on climate change on the set in new york and i asked him the question that i will put you to you now that these conversations can feel carry scary and disruptive in communities where they feel like their life style and community is being pulled out from under them. the case senator kerry made was that, look, these are new jobs. yes, things are changing, yes, it is disruptive but if we create a new economy around clean energy those, in fact, are jobs. how do you get to that part of it in those conversations? >> the world is already changing and digging in our heels and saying, no, i still want my horse and buggy when we've got a model t ford, so to speak, is not going to slow down progress. around the world last year 90% of new electricity installed around the world was clean energy. here in texas we already get 23% of our electricity from clean energy sources. and fossil fuels don't just produce heat trapping gases building up in the atmosphere wrapping an extra blanket around the planet causes us to warm they also produce air pollution that is responsible for nearly 9 million deaths per year. there are all kinds of reasons to change, jobs are one of them, our health is another one and our future is the bottom line. >> catherine, it's jonathan lemire, i wanted to ask you how do you have these conversations on a national or global scale? of course, i know so much of the book is about those one on ones, but how do you tell people in parts of this country whose economies rely on fossil fuels or even more importantly globally where you have whole nations, biggest polluters of the world, china and india who seem to not be that inclined to change things at least not rapidly. what's the message there? how do you do that? >> we need to start the conversation at the greater scale also with something we agree on and if we are talking about jobs we need to bring up statistics. look at all the jobs that are in clean energy that outpace the extraction jobs in fossil fuels in this country. china has more installed wind and solar energy, if you don't believe me look it up, than the united states and they just promised to stop doing something which they were doing which was coal fired power plants. india is trying its best to be the first country to completely industrial lies without relying entirely on coal. that hasn't been done since the 1700s. so the giant boulder is actually rolling down the hill in the right direction and it has billions of hands on it, it just isn't going fast enough and that's where each one of us comes in. >> that rolling boulder may be the word hope in your title. the book is "saving us, a climate scientist's case for hope and healing in a divided world." professor hayhoe, thanks for being with us this morning. we appreciate it. joe? >> and to wrap this up, jonathan, so much going on. we have an infrastructure bill, we have a reconciliation bill, the police reform bill appears to be dead for now, we have debt limit fight. congress and the white house has a lot of work ahead of them over the next few weeks. >> they certainly do with real deadlines looming. i think we will learn a lot more today about the special envoy to haiti who resigned because of the biden administration's policy towards that country in light of the crises there as well. >> that is the issue, the crisis ongoing at the southern border obviously one of the greatest challenges for the biden administration. thanks so much for being with us this morning. we greatly appreciate it. garrett haake picks up the coverage right now. ♪♪ hi there, i'm garrett haake in for stephanie ruhle, it's thursday, september 23rd. we start in washington where democrats have a mess on their hands and no clear way to clean it up. on wednesday president biden met with nearly two dozen house and senate democrats over the course of four hours. the goal, to find some way to keep his $4 trillion domestic agenda on track. theem

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