Transcripts For MSNBC The Beat With Ari Melber 20240711

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i'm looking forward to that. i hope you too. we're going out to texas. we begin with the more somber seen in washington where congress remains on high alert over these intelligence threats. capitol police are now formally asking the national guard to stay there for two more months in response to new threats of maga-style attacks as the democratic majority says they take this extremely seriously, they're emphasizing they're also continuing the work of government, fast tracking the covid relief bill on party lines when needed, which includes vice president harris casting another tie-breaking note. republicans are deploying another minor delay tactic to add another day to the debate. we begin with pulitzer prize winning columnist for "the washington post" gene robinson, co-host of the ten podcast and mara gay from "the new york times" editorial board. good to see everyone. gene, i begin with the scene in the city you know well, but under different terms, taking the security threats very seriously while still marching forward on the big covid package. your thoughts. >> well, first of all, just from a practical sense, it is very difficult to go anywhere around the capitol hill area right now because of all the fencing topped with all the concertina wire. it really is a feeling that i've never seen in washington in all my years here. it's different. and so the obvious question is how long does this last? nobody wants this to be permanent. i mean, this can't be permanent because there are necessary streets that are literally blocked off. you just can't get there from here. and that's just not tenable. but nobody wants the capitol looking like this, yet what is the date certain when the maga fringe and the qanon lunatics no longer are crazy? i mean, when do you reach the point when you have confidence that they're not going to do something idiotic? i don't know when that, but we're going have to figure that out, because this is not a sustainable situation in the long-term. >> daniela also is a washington denizen. has that been your experience? what are your thoughts? >> yeah, you know. our office sent a note to our staff telling them not to come to the office today if they were planning to, to stay away from the hill, to make sure they listen to the local law enforcement, and it's not the first time we've had to send that message. and it really is disheartening that we live in this moment. but like gene says, this can't be our everyday existence for in perpetuity. at some point we're going have to figure out how to deal with this threat. it's no longer a surprise. so we have to figure out how we can open back up the capitol, how we can do the people's business, but make sure that lawmakers and staff members are safe. we're going have to figure out what this balance is. but keeping the capitol and blocks around it locked down is not an option. >> yeah, i appreciate both you saying that and that's straight talk. we're talking about the looming threat of politicized violence and how do you disentangible from that. this also may be, and no disrespect, gene, because we know the high respect that we and the viewers hold you in, but this also may be one of the only times where i've heard you and josh hawley sound the same. the difference is i know that you mean it earnestly. and what i'm about to show viewers goes to why i'm not sure that he does, which is a big difference. so look, our panel is going to stay. let me explain this. we're going get to mara. but here is the deal. everybody knows some republicans encouraged parts of the stop the steal rally. republican senator hawley held up his fist in solidarity with the crowd that would breach his own workplace. he was the first senator to answer trump's call to try to overthrow biden's win. the politicians like hawley that. >> could respond to all this by just responding to the violence and measuring to prevent it from happening again. others are not doing that. instead, as i'm discussing with my panel, they're discuss organize critiquing the very security measures taken in response to that deadly attack in january. it's an approach tucker carlson has been pushing. >> those 26,000 federal troops are not there for your safety. the democratic party is using those troops to send the rest of us a message about power. we're clearly living under some form of martial law at the point. how do we know that? there are nearly 10,000 federal troops in our capital city tonight. ooh, that's a hint. why are they there? say something a democratic governor doesn't like and he'll send troochs. does that sound like the country you grew up in? >> why are they there? because the capitol was breached for the first time since 1812. because people were killed. because intelligence shows ongoing threats. that's why. but now senator hawley is sounding a lot like that fox host, making the same argument on fox. >> i think the idea of keeping them there indefinitely and keeping a barbed wire fence around the capitol indefinitely is crazy. i mean, this is the people's house. should it be open to the people. >> as an emergency measure, the barbed wire is not to keep out the people. fact check. it's to keep out the rioters indicted for a conspiracy to overthrow the government by force. with those facts in mind, our panel is with us. i'm going to go gene and then mara, since your name was invoke, as they say in washington, gene. you too sound similar, but as i mentioned, only slightly risbly, only slightly differences. your thoughts on this weird disingenuous talking point. >> well, it is hard to believe that anything that josh hawley says is sincere and it's not designed to further his political ambitions. so enough about that. what he just said, that sound bite that we played could have been word for word from mayor muriel bowser of the district of columbia. because, again, nobody wants this to continue, to stay a permanent fixture in the capitol, but it has to be there now because of these ongoing threats. and rational people realize those two things, that the security measures have to be there right now, but they can't be there forever. we're going to have to find other ways of making sure the capitol complex is safe. already some of the fencing in the vicinity of the white house is coming down. there was a lot over there too. you know, we'll figure it out. and i hope we figure it out with a bias toward as much openness as possible, because it is the people's house, and that's very important. that's very important to us who live here. that's very important to the country. >> mara? >> yeah, you know, i can't help but think about new york city after september 11th and the attacks because in the months and even years afterward, i live here in new york. i was in high school at the time. there was an initial very serious military presence and then paramilitary presence essentially with the new york police department. we have had counterterrorism squads. it was very intense. and, you know, it was also really disheartening because this is a city that's very vibe atlanta, and we really didn't want to accept changing our lives in that way. it made us feel like the terrorists were winning in some sense. so what happened over time as we understood better how to confront these threat, not just with sheer force, right, but with diplomacy and things that worked well and things that didn't work well, we kind of understood more about the nature of the threat and we could open -- open ourselves back up again. in a smart and intelligent way while still keeping security where it is needed. it hasn't been perfect, but surely we have not seen anything like september 11th thank god since that day. i think it's not a perfect model, but it is a way forward. i do think it's important that we really make sure that the capitol is open, that congress is doing the people's business. you know, i also want to say that there is something particularly despicable about what hawley and others are saying, because it's not just that they're lying to the american people and they're telling us something wasn't important or significant that we saw with our own eyes, but they're really completely denigrating the memory of people who died that day and also telling us that there is no threat when we know for sure, for certain that there were members of congress and others, staff, journalists, police officers who were in fear of their lives that day for simply doing the people's work. i really don't think that's forgivable, and there's certainly -- it's amazing to see them saying there is no threat while at the same time stoking the fire of those like members of qanon who are essentially just traitors at this point. anybody who stormed that capitol is a traitor. so that's who they're siding with instead of people who are duly elected by the american people. so i think the entire narrative around this is just the apex of the lies that donald trump has been telling for years. and it's really taken a dangerous turn. so i hope that we see more responsible actors stand up, but for now i think it's unfortunate, but the capitol needs to be secure. >> yeah. and with regard to the role of the coequal branch of government to participate responsibly and the foils keep it skurks it's for the courts to figure out what incitement is or isn't, but if you're tight with the arsonists and you make common cause with the arsonists and you hoist your fist up to the arsonists and you go running around using your power to say what's up with all the firefighters? we don't need firefighters around here? you sound like someone who wants the fire to keep burning. that's the problem. as a lawyer i can say okay, it doesn't mean that you are technically indictable. that's a very different standard and we're not holding a trial here tonight, but boy, do you look bad and guilty when you say get these firefighters out of here. it's really concerning, which is why we wanted to put a light on it. i want to thank mara and gene -- >> one thing. >> yes. >> one thing. josh hawley could advance his cause if he wants security to come down, he could come out tomorrow and say joe biden won a fair and free election, and the big lie was a big lie, and i was a big participant in it. and i shouldn't have done that. and you people should go home, because this is all a lie. then maybe i would take someone seriously something he said. >> i appreciate that that goes to something we used to talk about, as mara said the post-9/11 context, which is radicalization and being clear with your platform and your responsibility so you don't give people the wrong information or lies or hate that can stoke other problems. i want to thank, as i was mentioning, gene and mara for helping kick us off. i'm asking daniella to stay right now. i want to get to one more related development that i felt we had to get to tonight, the infamous image of maga rioter barnett who came with a stun gun into the capital, breached the speaker's office with his feet up on her desk. he has been in jail shins was indicted for what you see here, awaiting trial, which is how the united states court system treats people deemed legally dangerous or a flight risk or both. well, defendant barnett was back in court today, and he doesn't like this process. indeed, he erupted into anger after a judge assigned his next court appearance to be in may, meaning he will in all likelihood remain incarcerated until then, yelling at the judge, it's quote, not fair that he is in jail weeks after his arrest. daniela, i wanted to give you a chance to weigh in on mr. barnett's concern that his pretrial incarceration is not, quote, fair. >> well, cry me a river is my initial perhaps not very mature response to what he has to say. does he have a point about our criminal justice system and the way we treat people who, you know, have been charged with a crime but haven't been convicted? there are a whole bunch of issues how long people stay in jail, access to bail, legitimate concerns that people have been working on for decades. i find it very hard to find sympathy for this particular individual who is, you know, suggest to the same criminal justice system that everybody else is dealing with at the moment. so, no, i don't feel sorry for him that he has to sit in jail for a couple of months until his next hearing comes, because that's what everybody at the moment has to do, and he doesn't get special treatment. and i wonder why he thinks he deserves special treatment. >> why does he think he deserves special treatment and as you mentioned and we've covered, there are many problems with pretrial detention, particularly for people who are simply too poor to get representation. pretrial detention for people facing serious allegations of terror-related crime who went armed into a government building. they under the categories look a lot more warranted because he was dangerous. he took a stun gun into the speaker's office. a lot of people are lucky that he didn't use it. so it's really striking and i think rich, to say the least, as you mention as well. we did want to get that in there. daniela gibbs lege, thanks for being here. >> thank you. we have our shortest break of the hour now, 30 seconds. coming up, a new scandal for a big trump ally in florida. james carville back on "the beat" live in 30 seconds. she'll revisit her plan with fidelity. and with a scenario that makes it a possibility, she'll enjoy her dream right now. that's the planning effect, from fidelity. psst! psst! she'll enjoy her dream right now. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! you're good. while president biden builds on momentum for his covid bill and winning over most republican voters, the gop is eyeing presidential nominees who can excel if trump does not run by still being trumpy enough. to paraphrase da bureaucrat, the republican party is so trumpified that its rising stars are trying to get trumpy whether the shoe fits or not. which brings us to a scandal hitting a florida republican who has been acting very trumpy, governor ron desantis. >> president trump endorsed desantis. we then saw him take a double-digit lead. >> a friend of mine who has become very, very popular. i guess that's what that big place was, your florida governor ron desantis. one of the most popular governors anywhere in the country. he is a champ. he is a winner. >> the governor who deserves the people's choice award. >> the governor is having a political moment in the sun. >> the sun can be hot. that's the case with these new and somewhat damning allegations that desantis is playing politics with life and death vaccines. the "miami herald" reporting on a possible bout of special vaccine treatment for a wealthy florida keys enclave that's filled with republican donors who got vaccines in january. that's even far before not only most florida residents, but even health care workers. somehow 17 desantis doaners there got special vaccine access. it includes high rollers who gave him $5,000 each at the end of 2020, plus evidence a well connected republican governor of illinois forked over 250,000 to desantis' political committee in february. a top democrat now calling for the fbi to investigate. critics say this locks like the worst kind of bribery with lives on the line. any hint of policy misconduct handling covid is a big deal as we reported in the case of andrew cuomo's nursing home scandal, or as the evidence may show in these questions facing a republican, desantis. now for his part, he denies taking any action regarding this entire situation. he says he was not involved with regard to where those vaccines went, quote, in any way, shape, or form. but boy the spotlight is on desantis, light as well as heat, someone who has been touted by right wing pundits as a rising star, and he has been of course mentioned as a potential presidential candidate. we're joined now by james carville, a veteran of presidential campaign, bill clinton's lead campaign strategist. and if i may, if i may, a friend of "the beat." how you, sir? >> the feeling is mutual. i'm fine. on the desantis thing favoring wealthy people getting the vaccine, no one's surprised. they want the tax code to favor wealthy people. they want the entire system to be rigged in favor of wealthy people. so why wouldn't someone try to rig the vaccine to be in favor of wealthy people? it is totally consistent with modern republican philosophy that wealthy people get to cut in line, because the fact that they're wealthy makes them virtuous themselves. that's even a whole branch of -- the fact that you're wealthy means that god loves you and god must surely want wealthy white people to be first in line to get the vaccine. i mean, it makes total sense if you think like that, doesn't it? >> yeah. as you say, they're publicly on the record about that approach for the tax code and other things. politically, james, as i mentioned, this kind of stuff a big deal because it matter, as it should. politically it seems -- it seems that -- these allegations hurt him more than just say trying the get taxes to benefit that wealthy community, though. >> well, i think there is all the difference in the world. i'm being slightly sarcastic here. there is a difference between getting the vaccine. i am not surprised that the system is rigged in florida to favor wealthy people. i think it is a basic instinct of people like ron desantis. i'm surprised he didn't say of course i did. everything i do in my administration is to serve wealthy people. you know, you can see that in public policy time and time and time again. and, you know, you look at all these voting rights cases. they're not trying to stop wealthy people from voting. they're trying to stop, you know, middle and lower middle class, people, african american people, hispanic people, immigrants, anything else. that's who they're trying to stop from voting. you live in buckhead, you can vote. vote early, vote often, have it at it. 500 voting machines every thousand voters. i think people are going to start waking up to this that the system is rigged in favor of people who already have it made and it's rigged against the people that are trying to make it. >> yeah. >> i'm not surprised that we have this thing with the vaccine. i'm not at all surprised. the only thing that kind of surprised me more is we hadn't had more of it. i suspect we're going uncover a lot more before we're done. i really do. >> yeah, that's a fair point. you've been around the block. people know that, and you're making the point that particularly when you look at the temptation, when you look at the mind-set and you lock at potential corruption, as i've reported desantis denying it fully. so will it play out that he can summon the evidence that he wasn't involved. we'll see what comes. you mentioned voting rights, james, which i know you're passionate about. this is another piece of news we wanted to get to. a lot going on. the house passing this key bill. speaker pelosi said it's her first priority. it's literally bill hr-1. let's take a look. >> two major democratic priorities were passed last night. >> this bill is passed. >> this legislation is there to protect the right to vote to remove obstacles of participation. hr-1 for the people. >> james, sometimes the politicians sell things as big that are medium or small. this is is not one of those times. this thing does automatic voter reg. well don't have that nationally. it deals with the former incarcerated and those issues. it would expand early voting which we see is a key aspect. it was key in the pandemic and does some modernization. those just a few highlights. your thoughts on this sweeping bill now passing the house? >> i think it's both significant and important piece of legislationy remember. it's in the tradition of the 15th amendment and the 19th amendment. and the effects of this, of course you have a lawyer telling the supreme court if you let everybody vote, the democrats are going to win every election. you can go on record and find any number of republican politicians, lawyers, commentators saying of course everybody can't vote. we wouldn't win any elections. you know, somebody was born in g and lived in louisiana, the right to vote particularly among black people, particularly in the south is so ingrained, you cannot believe it. and what they're going to do, if they pass the stuff they're talking about in georgia, i promise you, ari, this is not going end well. people are not going to take this. they're not going to work and they're not going to have frederick douglass and martin luther king jr. and john lewis and then have a successful election and have somebody say no, no, that's not what we're going to do. we're going to make it where you can't be successful anymore. if john roberts thinks that shelby county beholder, that's up there, that was a really horrific supreme court ruling. and i got news. these people live in an ivory tower. they do not understand remotely what the right to vote. you and i, we take it for granted because really, no one's ever tried to stop us, our parent, our grandparents from voting. black people take that a lot different than we do. they have a very different view, and they view it as a gain bright with their blood and their history, and they're not going let it go easily. i promise you that i know sometimes you say you know what? white people shouldn't say what black people are thinking. this is one white person saying black people think the right to vote is a hard earned glorious right that they're not prepared to give up. i'll good ahead and say that and take the heat 50%. >> you just made the point that a republican admitted in the supreme court this week, and if it flew by people, it's worth underscoring. a republican lawyer said they want to change the rules so fewer people can vote. otherwise democrats will win elections. >> right. >> how big is this as the fault line of the future of american politics if you have the growing thinking in the party. it's not my job to say everybody, but someone did say it under oath at the supreme court is they got to find ways to cheat because that can't win if there is just normal participation. >> well, not only that, why did some supreme court say wait, wait, counsel, let me get this straight. you're saying that if we enforce the 15th or the 90th amendment and we force a 14th amendment for equal protection, all right, and you're saying if we did that, we shouldn't do that because we would force an outcome to an election you don't like? are you really making this argument before the united states supreme court? really? if you think of it, the right to vote is very popular. in florida, we talk a lot about florida. in 2018, 60% of floridians thought that convicted felons had served their times had the right to vote. what the heck do you think people think about a waitress in the waffle house not having the right the vote? i mean, what do you think people think of a baggage handler atlanta airport not having the right to vote? i mean, this is -- the democrats have got to really frame this argument a lot better and a lot clearer, because if we don't and these state legislators go through this and the supreme court goes through this, i'm really afraid we're going have a terrible outcome in this country. >> yeah. >> people are not -- they're not going to be happy. this is an entirely different thing to a population in america. this is the a hard earned much fought for difficult right that has been acquired, and they're not going give it up easily, nor will people like you and i be very happy about it either, to be very frank about it. this is a very dangerous. and of course the lawyers admit it. trump has said it before. any good researcher can come up with example after example. and they have to -- >> yeah. >> they have to limit the franchise because it is the only way that they can win elections. and we got to be very clear about making that point. >> yeah, and we're saying on it in terms of facts and evidence out there, and it's a story with both elements, because you have the house making this progress. we'll see what happens in the senate on that bill because it could go all the way to the president's desk, and then you have the state level. james carville, as always, thank you for being here on "the beat," sir. i'm going fit in a break. but still ahead, the new battle line over masks stretching from washington all the way down to texas. the governor under fire. we're going go right into texas, including where some people are speaking out about the concern the government doesn't have their back anymore. a special interview after this. s if you love it, spoon it. introducing colliders. your favorite candy flavors twisted, chopped or layered into a dessert that's made to spoon. new colliders desserts. find them near the refrigerated pudding. wanna build a gaming business that breaks the internet? 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...to experience lexus. the invitation to lexus sales event. get 0% apr financing on the 2021 rx 350. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. see every delivery... get 0% apr financing on the 2021 rx 350. every yikes... and even every awwwwwwww... wait, where was i? introducing self protection from xfinity. designed to put you in control. with real-time notification and a week of uninterrupted recording... all powered by reliable, secure wifi from xfinity. gotta respect his determinatio. it's easy and affordable to get started. get self protection for $10 a month. a fight exploding in texas over masks, ballooning into a national story. new pressure on governor greg abbott there. he rescinded the mask mandate in the state. but there is a 20% spike of covid cases and something we're all worried about in many place, new covid variants. while you're looking at this, if you're looking at this from a policy level, take has one of the lowest vaccination rates from the country. today governor abbott is blaming -- well, take a listen. >> the biden administration has been releasing immigrants in south texas that has been exposing texans to covid. the biden administration must stop importing covid into our country. that is a neanderthal type of approach to dealing with the covid situation. >> this is what the spat now looks like. the governor taking a shot at the president, joe biden, obviously. he also is using a quote there you may have heard about, neanderthal. health official says it is too soon for a full reopening, and it's too soon to stop masking around others. so that's just the medical facts. here is dr. fauci today. >> my strong advice to them, joe, would be to actually continue to implement the public health measures. now is not the time to pull back. >> now views in texas on the ground are varied. some are eager to reopen fully and take informed risks. other business owners, though, and this is important to note say that having the state government back down now feels like it doesn't have their back, putting them and their workers in the firing line. joining me now is a small business owner, olivia guerra o'neal, owner of sugar mama's bake shop and lola's donut shop in austin, texas. you can see she has some signs up right there, masks required for entry as local policy. we're also joined by infectious disease physician and msnbc contributor dr. naheed bedell la. doctor, we always want to be factual here so we gave that summary. your view of what dr. fauci and others are getting at when it would be time for a state like texas to pull back. >> ari, to me it just seems like we know at this point in the pandemic there is a big difference between a complete lockdown and public health measures like masking, like distancing, and ensuring we keep indoor capacity down, things that protect us because the virus is still out there. and as you said, the variants are threatening to sort of undo all the good that has happened over the last couple of months. and look at the position we're in right now where the biden administration has said by may we'll have enough vaccines for all adults. we made big moves in the fact we've vaccinated 50% of all people over 65. we have 48 states that visit. and other people over 65 are still unvaccinated are most people who have medical conditions. the concern that i have is we're so close to that potential and silver lining where more of us are protected. and if we open up without that protection, i want to quote this study from california that this came out. what happens when you open up in a pandemic, who gets the most excess deaths, occupation wise. 60% increasing access mortality among latino agricultural workers and food workers. 40% increase mortality in black retail workers and 40% in asian health care workers. those are the folks that bear the brunt when we open up when we don't have any measures in place. >> as you often do, you set the table really insightfully because this isn't just neutral. this isn't just of the happening. i appreciate that i suppose we should start, olivia, but saying thank you to you, your worker, your team and anyone else watching around america who does the kind of work that as the doctor reminded us does mean extra exposure. to say nothing of whether or not you're getting fully supported. so thank you and share with us your thoughts and experiences about how this is playing out in texas. >> well, thanks for having me on. and you starting with the thank you brings up a really interesting point to me that oftentimes hospitality front line worker, we've been praised throughout the pandemic because we're bringing people their groceries and we're bringing people their meals, but we're also the first people to be sacrificed in this pandemic. and we're put at the front lines with very little to no support from financial support, from the state of texas, we haven't seen anything. there has been little to no outreach. all of the work that's being done to support the service industry and the hospitality industry, we're supporting each other. and so to have that complete lack of support from the beginning of the pandemic and now reopening texas with the no mask policy, which is as you said earlier, putting our staff in the line of fire, people don't just decide to not patronize businesses where they have to wear the mask if they don't want to wear a mask, they antagonize those businesses. they bully those businesses, and they try to blacklist those businesses instead of simply taking their business elsewhere. and that has me terrified for my staff and myself and my family. >> when you hear that the texas governor and his allies say hey, we're adding liberty and choice. we're just removing a requirement, but any establishment in any place can still have its own rule, as we showed on your door you do, what's your response to that defense? >> my response to that is where have you been this entire time, governor abbott? you haven't done anything to support us. we have been reaching out and begging and asking for help to survive this pandemic, and you have not been here to help us. and now you are not listening to our pleas. you are not listening to our concerns, and you're telling us that we don't matter and that small business in texas doesn't matter. >> doctor? >> yeah, and i think that have always done this. look, we started off on the wrong foot on memorial day almost a year ago, and we've been playing this game where we let down the guard before we have all the things in place to address the threat. then we have this peak of cases and deaths. so we go around trying to put all our resources into controlling that peak, going back into public health restrictions only to get back to a point where now we're finally at a point where we have the tools and we're going to make the mistake just as we're about to cover the population with that immunity. and so it just seems like an exercise in futility to me. >> yes. finally, olivia -- go ahead. >> i'd like to add that opening up the hospitality industry in texas, one would think that giving us vaccines and making us part of that preferred group would be a way that governor abbott would help us and be proactive. and the texas food and wine alliance, sway nonprofit group, boots on the ground, they are the ones who are working with a local pharmacy to try to get hospitality workers vaccinated with the texas restaurant association. so we truly do not have not just the support but the infrastructure from the state where again, we are doing this ourselves as a community. and that's hard. >> understood. i'm really glad to hear your perspective. we've been talking to business owners at times throughout all of this for the reasons stated. olivia, i would be remiss if i didn't ask you in closing, what is the highest selling type of donut in your establishment? >> oh, gosh, i would say one of our jelly filled donuts, but you have to wear a mask to get your hands on one of those. >> you got to wear a mask. dr. bhadelia, jelly being i'm told equivalent to an apple in terms of health, jelly donut fine? >> only for the next 30 seconds. >> all right. olivia, we reach out to you because the work you're doing. but when i saw the donut shop, i love a good maple bar which i feel gives you extra donut. it's a long one. it's kind of hike having two donuts but you only have to order one. but again, that's personal. olivia guerra o'neal and dr. bhadelia, thank you both. an important story we've been following from the beginning. this is an nbc exclusive. george floyd's brother now speaking out. days ahead of the murder trial for the former officer who took floyd's life. d's life she'll want a plan to reach them. so she'll get some help from fidelity, and she'll feel so good about her plan, she can focus on living it. that's the planning effect, from fidelity. seeing blood when you brush or floss can be a sign of early gum damage. new parodontax 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keep the public safe. if you see wires down, treat them all as if they're hot and energized. stay away from any downed wire, call 911, and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. we're proud of this legislation. it will not erase centuries of systemic racism and excessive policing, and it will not bring back george floyd, but it will take a tremendous step forward. >> speaker pelosi on the house, passing the police reform bill named in honor of george floyd. this bill would ban the neck restraints that have proven so controversial, federal no-knock drug warrants. it would also reform immunity for police officers, something you may have noticed we've been reporting on here because it's a crucial part of accountability. meanwhile, when it comes to criminal accountability, the trial for the officer indicted for murdering floyd, derek chauvin begins monday. you see the blue rate in '21 following the same rate of shootings as prior years and far higher than most comparable countries. we're joined now by brittany pact cunningham. she also served on president obama's policing task force. your thoughts about both the accountability that we mentioned, the very fact that officer chavez is on trial is a rare fact in american life. the passage of this bill is a rarity because police groups had largely protested to some of its ingredients, and yet the line we show there is a sad reality that not much is changing day to day yet. >> i'll tell you something that i was glad to see among the many first steps in this bill that were necessary was an end to qualified immunity. i'm glad that that did not get erased from the conversation, because what that is an inclination to allow police to exist above the rest of us, to allow them to live above the law and to live above the normal expectations that everyday citizens have on all of us all the time. the fact of the matter is, though, that i would very much like to not have a reason to hold police accountable because they are not killing us. so as you rightfully said, accountability is only half of the conversation. there have been some important first steps in this bill. i'm hopeful that the senate will actually make moves to consider this, but i'm really hoping to see even more than this a mind-set shift. we talk about reform a lot. we like that word. but i maintain that you reform things that are broken. you replace and transform systems that are causing harm exactly as they were designed to. you cannot disconnect modern american policing from slave patrols, from racial caste systems and from systems of white supremacy. therefore, reform efforts will always fall short. shifting our paradigm from reform to transformation, a full reimagining of public safety and actually replacing the systems that harm us, that is where we need to go next. >> you just said something, brittany, that is very fundamental. so i just want to underscore it, that the goal is not having working systems that allow you to sue police for unlawful killings. the goal is to stop unlawful killings. and while that sounds straight forward, the discussion around immunity and other accountability measures are to change the conduct out in the street, not to have an after action plan. so mr. floyd's case, his killing hangs over all of this. he is named in the bill, as you know, as reported, and as promised to viewers, i want to play briefly his brother speaking out. take a listen. >> he had his soul taken from him right there on the spot. blood was coming from his nose and the officer still sat there on his neck like he was okay. it's never okay to hurt somebody like that. we shouldn't have to go to court for anything like this. we shouldn't have to. >> we shouldn't -- we shouldn't have to go to court. we shouldn't have to have all this political debate because it shouldn't happen in the first place, brittany. >> that's right. my friend and brilliant activist lawyer derricka purnell wrote something brilliant in the guardian today about this case, about this bill. the fact of the matter is this bill bans chokeholds, but a chokehold didn't kill george floyd. there was a knee on his neck for 8:46. and the fact of the matter is that is not the only tactic that police often employ to kill people, mostly black, brown and indigenous. when they have that many tactics to kill us, the only way to solve this issue is to severely limit contact. the only way to limit contact is to shrink the role of police in society. the only way to shrink the role of police in society is to actually take money from those bloated budgets and invest that money back into building strong and safe communities from the inside out. and i will happily be a broken record on this until we don't have to sing that song anymore.. >> it's a last word on this tonight. we'll be keeping up with you as one of our experts. thank you. wirts. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body 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