overnight new reporting on what's being described as an expletive ridden phone call between kevin mccarthy and former president trump as the riot was unfolding. mccarthy called trump shaken asking for help. the then president told mccarthy, well, kevin, i guess these people are more upset about the election than you are. at what point mccarthy told trump who the expletive do you think you're talking to? this as the teams are gearing up to make their closing arguments. will these new developments throw a wrench into what the trump team was hoping would be a quick wrap up? sheldon whitehouse tweeting out, one way to clear this up, suspend trial to depose mccarthy and tuberville under oath to get facts. this comes on the heels of a heated question and answer session yesterday where leading house impeachment manager jamie raskin said the former president should be brought in to fill in the blanks. >> this is about preserving the republic, dear senate. that's what this is about. setting standards of conduct for the president of the united states so this never happens to us again. so rather than yelling at us and screaming about how we didn't have time to get all of the facts about what your client did, bring your client up here and have him testify under oath about why he was sending out tweets denouncing the vice president of the united states while the vice president was being hunted down by a mob that wanted to hang him and was chanting in this building hang mike pence, hang mike pence, traitor, traitor, traitor. >> so many ground to cover this hour besides the highlights of all of the testimony over the past couple of days. we're looking at the 14th amendment. could it be used to keep donald trump from seeking national office once again? also how will democrats hold the gop accountable if trump is, in fact, acquitted today? plus new reporting on the financial problems faced by many of those rioters on january 6th. their high bankruptcy rate nearly twice that of the american public. it's a fascinating story we'll dive into. breaking news and more details about that expletive-placed phone call between trump and mccarthy on january 6th. so quite a development over the past 24 hours. all eyes will be on this phone call as we already started to get some reaction from the senate. what are we learning about more details about the call and where things go from here? >> good morning. you laid it out perfectly what we're reporting about this call. a very shaken house minority leader, kevin mccarthy, very much showing in the moment reactions to living under the suspense of an insurrection, very much pleading to former president trump as many republicans did to make sure he goes out there and tries to pull those people out. trump reportedly telling mccarthy, well, it seems like these insurrectionists have a bit more in the game or at least defending me better than you are about the election results. that making mccarthy, as you had pointed out, saying expletives and really denouncing trump in that moment. both of them questioning their loyalty to each other. that all coming to a head on this final day of the impeachment trial. all of this happened after senators left the capitol. so we don't have exact or many reactions yet to how republicans and democrats feel about this call. we did hear one senator, senator whitehouse from rhode island pointed out that maybe we should suspend the trial for a moment and bring witnesses forward. that witness question is something that senators will have to grapple with today. but as of right now, it seems unlikely they're going to delay this trial. one of the things that has been very much consistent throughout is that republicans and democrats want to wrap this up. even so, they heard in the last couple days from house impeachment managers and also trump's defense lawyers who were arguing what trump knew and when. there were many questions submitted by senators asking that exact question. what did he know about mike pence on that day when he was here in the capitol? i want you to listen to what house impeachment manager castro said as well as trump's defense lawyer. take a listen. >> and senator tuberville specifically said that he told the president, mr. president, they just took the vice president out, i've got to go. there were still hours of chaos and carnage and mayhem. the vice president and his family were still in danger at that point. our commander in chief did nothing. >> the answer is no. at no point was the president informed the vice president was in any danger. >> so you heard castro there invoking senator tommy tuberville from alabama. the reason why is because trump called him, that was a point of contention earlier on trying to clarify what happened there. and as of right now, again, does not seem like they may call for witnesses. that could change. here's what we do know. the senate is going to come together today at 10:00 a.m. they have to get through some procedural discussions as well as the witnesses, we'll see what will happen there. if they do not call witnesses, then we will go to four hours split evenly between the defense and the prosecution to make their closing arguments. and after that, it's that final vote. so we could potentially know trump's fate by early afternoon. as of right now, there's not those 17 republican votes to convict the former president. but even so, already discussions between democrats and republicans about potentially censuring the president and that question about the 14th amendment whether they can, through that censure, be able to make sure trump cannot run for office again. a lot of questions. we will get answers by the end of today. >> all right. starting us off on day five of the second impeachment of donald trump. thanks for that. joining me now to discuss some of those points, david jolly, former republican from california and a former msnbc contributor. a lot to break down here. we'll get to where we go post-impeachment. let's start with these new explosive reports. not necessarily new, but again, coming to the front and center of this debate. important to remember that just a short three weeks after the insurrection, mccarthy went down, kevin mccarthy went down to mar-a-lago to meet with trump and to discuss the future of the republican party. what do you make of all of this, kevin mccarthy becoming the center of the trial because of that phone call and then going down to meet with the president three weeks later? >> regarding kevin's meeting with the president, i would say having served with kevin, the one thing that donald trump and kevin mccarthy have in common is they both care deeply about themselves and their political future. kevin mccarthy desperately wants to be speaker of the house and he needs donald trump's support and enough republican members to take back the house. that's a pure political play on kevin's point. where we are in the impeachment and this new news regarding kevin is important because what has opened up is new facts around donald trump's state of mind. the reason that's critical is that the two defenses that donald trump and republicans in the senate are laying out is a procedural one. we saw the vote where a former president can't be impeached. then a substantive one largely around the concept of political speech. what donald trump has been engaged in and at the rally was protected political speech. that's why they showed democrats engaging in similar speech. we learned the president's state of mind suggests this was not political speech. he laid the predicate of the big lie. he invited people to washington on january 6th. he told them to go to the capitol. when he saw the capitol being overtaken the president's state of mind was to allow it to continue even at the risk of harm to kevin, to mike pence and to others. that is a critical change in this trial. it is why i believe they must call witnesses, call them immediately. start with jamie herrera butler, the congresswoman from washington who voted to impeach and said, yes, kevin mccarthy shared this information with those of us in the caucus. >> to that point you mentioned the representative there. i was going to ask you what other witnesses or who in terms of a witness list would you want to see put together that could flush this out, could answer some of those critical questions. quite frankly, loyalty is not a word that's often ascribed to president trump. anyone expecting him to be loyal to mike pence on that day may not be surprised, but does this actually change anything? will this have an impact on the way republican senators view the trial itself? >> we are often reminded that impeachment is a political process. even some of the moves that republican senators have made that would get them thrown off a jury if this was a trial in a court is protected by the fact that impeachment is a political process. that also plays to democrats in the sense that your witnesses don't have to conform to all the rules of criminal or civil procedure. hearsay is permissible in an impeachment trial. if you have 51 votes to move forward. and they have 51 votes in the senate. look, i suggest starting with herrera butler, though it may be considered hearsay, she can testify that kevin mccarthy's phone call reportedly included this conversation. you could bring in aides to mike pence who apparently have also confirmed through reporting overnight that trump knew that mike pence was in danger, was in physical danger. the reason this is most important to move to witnesses is because democrats need to shift the political dynamic if they're going to get any additional republican votes. right now without witnesses, this is seen unfortunately as a democrat versus republican trial. republican senators are safe in that environment. this is a political moment, they're taking on democrats protecting their leader donald trump. if witnesses come forward, the entire dynamic changes and the eyes of the nation turn to the trial more so than they have this past week. >> david, stay with me a moment. i want to go back to friday's testimony for a second and the president's defense team laying out its case for acquittal. lawyers arguing that he was exercising free speech in his remarks just before. alice barr has more. >> reporter: the trump legal team laying out its defense in just three hours calling the former president's impeachment -- >> an unjust and blatantly unconstitutional act of political vengeance. >> reporter: mr. trump's lawyers zeroing in on his fiery words directly before the deadly capitol siege. >> if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. >> reporter: arguing he was exercising free speech. >> to claim that the president in any way wished, desired or encouraged lawless or violent behavior is a preposterous and monstrous lie. >> reporter: they aired a minutes long selectively edited montage of top democrats using similar rhetoric. >> fight that fight. >> i was fighting very hard. >> time is of the essence in the fight. >> i think we should be fighting. >> it's a word we should use, but stop the hypocrisy. >> reporter: the trump team largely ignoring the president's actions before the attack was a longstanding pattern of egging on supporters and taking no blame. after the defense rested, senators were able to ask questions. a chance for each side to score final points. >> he advocated for peaceful, patriotic protests. >> the defense counsel wants to blame everyone else except the person who was most responsible for what happened on january 6th. and that's president trump. >> the senate one step closer to its historic vote on whether to convict a former president for the first time. >> all right. that was alice barr reporting. david jolly is back with me. david, there's an irony in all of this. as the defense team bends over backwards to try and say president trump was not responsible for what happened on january 6th, we just learned that kevin mccarthy and senator tuberville of alabama and others were calling the president to try and get his supporters to go out there and make a public statement to get his supporters to back off. why would they be calling the president to make the case to tone it down, to end this insurrection or end these riots if they didn't think he had some power over these people? >> that's right. house managers are trying to make that point. the person who could call it off is the person who called for it in the first place. you saw the house managers try to lay those elements, that this was greater than just some type of political speech. the big lie was the premise. it was the predicate for all of this movement. and then the invitation to come to washington on january 6th, that's a date that very few americans would have had on their calendar. why january 6th? donald trump wanted them to know it was the day the electoral college would be certified. he spoke at the rally and said go down to the capitol. i do think there's an important nuance here that maybe even house managers have missed in their arguments, it's this notion that somehow the violence is the reason for the impeachment. so now there's a debate over whether donald trump was supporting violence or in his defense his lawyers are saying he intended it to be done peacefully. it doesn't have to get to the debate of peace versus violence to say the entire premise, what donald trump was trying to accomplish was impeachable. he was trying to accomplish preventing the certification of the election. that in itself is the undermining of democracy. whether it occurred peacefully or through violence, donald trump was trying to throw out the election of the second tuesday in november when he asked his supporters on january 6th to stop the steal. >> i was going to say, that's what the banter was of that day, stop the steal. the defense yesterday used a lot of conservative buzzwords and words that trigger a lot of emotion among their supporters, things like cancel culture, of course witch hunt, a phrase that the president used early on in his administration in reference to what he was experiencing. why do you think that is? >> because a lot of washington engages in what i call lazy politics. it's true on both sides, but i know the lazy politics of the right so i'll speak to that. so you default to the buzzwords, the convictions that perhaps brought you to politics 20 years ago, it works in political rhetoric and with your base so you have zero intellectual intrigue or curiosity about the facts you're presented with. we saw it yesterday with a number of conservative buzzwords, at the beginning the argument by trump's attorneys about a former president can't be impeached, i heard so much texturalism. and that to me, as fumbled as donald trump's opening defense was by his attorneys, there was about ten minutes there where i tuned in because my republican ears kind of shot up. it was exactly the rhetoric republicans wanted to hear. republican senators want to acquit him. all they need is the language to take to their base so say why. that's why you're hearing that language from trump's defense attorneys. >> david jolly thanks for joining us bright and early. you would never see jurors in a trial meeting with the defense team. so it raises the question why did ted cruz meet with trump's attorneys in the middle of the trial? we'll have reaction to that next. what is humana doing sending me a diy test kit? old health insurance reminds you to schedule a screening, say, for colon cancer. humana does you one better and sends you an at-home test kit, when it's overdue. huh! one of those tests could save your life, or at least a little hassle. or both. yeah! you get it, you do it, you send it back. i get it, i do it, i send it back. you get it, you do it, you send it back. yeah, i got it. you got it! ♪ ♪ humana. a more human way to healthcare. (sam) gamers! he who is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else. take fuzzywuzzy28. blamin' losses on a laggy network. only one or two. verizon 5g ultra wideband is here, the fastest 5g in the world, with ultra... low... lag! stop blaming the network and start becoming the best gamers in the ga-- that escalated quickly. (sam) 5g ultra wideband, now in parts of many cities. this is 5g built right. only from verizon. why walgreens? because our expert pharmacists know you and your medications. get their advice on your medicare prescriptions and get back to what you'd rather be doing. who's a good boy leo! ♪♪ when you've got a business, you don't want to worry about slow internet or confusing cybersecurity. so get comcast business internet with fast, reliable speeds, and add the advanced security of comcast business securityedge. it combines the speed you need with threat protection. plus there's 24/7 support. it's internet and advanced security - made simple. so bounce forward - with comcast business. get started with a powerful internet and voice solution for just $64.90 a month. and ask how to add comcast business securityedge. call today. . in just a few hours from now the senate will reconvene for the fifth day of the second trump impeachment trial. since tuesday both sides have been going back and forth on whether the former president was the catalyst of the deadly insurrection on january 6th. >> the insurrection was the most violent and dangerous episode so far in donald trump's continuing pattern and practice of inciting violence. an examination of his past statements makes it clear when donald trump tells a crowd as he did on january 6th fight like hell or you won't have a country anymore, he meant for them to fight like hell. >> the article of impeachment now before the senate is an unjust and blatantly unconstitutional act of political vengeance. no thinking person could seriously believe that the president's january 6th speech on the ellipse was in any way an incitement to violence or insurrection. the suggestion is patently an absurd statement on its face. >> danny joins me now. it's been a minute since you and i shared the screen at 5:00 in the morning. let's talk about it purely from a legal point of view. how do you assess the cases that have been made so far? >> the house managers early in the week made a come telling air-tight case against the protesters but it appears minds will differ whether or not there's an additional case against the president for inciting those rioters. the breakout star was the production quality of the house manager's prosecution with video set to realtime giving us side by side-views of what the president was doing while chaos reigned supreme at the capitol. meanwhile the defense probably or at least they appear to have decided, look, we are probably going to prevail here just on the vote count. so they were catering to some of the common themes of the republican party and trump's supporters in their presentation. >> danny you probably hear us talk a lot about whether this is a legal trial versus a political trial because this is somewhat of a hybrid situation with most people saying it's political it does have some legal elements to it. put the politics aside for a moment. do you think the house managers might have established grounds for an actual criminal case against trump? is that even possible as his defense attorneys suggested in his opening statements when he said if you have a problem with what the president did after he became president or if you want to try him after that january exception, so to speak, put him in trial criminally. >> a common maneuver by lawyers in court. if it's a criminal court, you say hey, this belongs in civil court. it's a common strategy, it's a good strategy, it works sometimes. this is a case -- i normally hedge my bets, but here i won't. this is likely not a criminal case in any way because the president has first amendment defenses to a criminal case that he simply does not have in any impeachment hearing. you look at supreme court precedent, the supreme court has sanctioned as protected speech language like let's take the f'ing streets or we're going to break your neck. these are the -- those are arguably closer to violence. the supreme court has said that given the context, of course, that speech was protected. so any prosecutor would have an uphill battle. that plus what is called the heckler's veto, you don't define the speech by the nudnicks hearing that speech. >> the defense didn't get to use all of its time. i'm curious on your thoughts as a defense attorney, is that in a sense an admission of a weak case or a strong case? did they prove either with the abbreviated defense? i believe they ended up using just a handful of hours from the allotted 16 they had. >> if you're a defense attorney you're always thinking about the burden of proof with the prosecution. it doesn't exactly work that way here. in this case the defense attorneys have something better than the burden of proof. they have a preview of the voting. if you already know the outcome will be acquittal, you know sit down early. don't press your case. don't give them anything they can use against you. these folks -- these defense attorneys may not have been experienced congressional impeachment trial attorneys, but they are experienced trial attorneys, so they no doubt considered this and that weighed into their decision to sit down early. >> all right. danny, always good to see you, buddy. take care. they say money is not everything but don't tell that to those who stormed the capitol building. many of them had one thing in common unfortunately, financial troubles. we'll have more on that next. walgreens makes affording your medicare prescriptions... ...no sweat. so you can get back to the thing you'd rather be doing. ♪ day five of the second impeachment trial of president trump begins this morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern, that's at least the schedule. it may be the final day in this impeachment trial. for a conviction 17 republicans need to vote with all 50 democrats to convict the former president. the votes of five republican senators, senators romney, sasse, toomey and others are in question. president joe biden is expected to weigh in on the senate trial for the first time, this comes as he prepares for a busy week of traveling to build support for his covid relief package. mike is in washington, d.c. good to have you bright and early on day five. what could we hear from the president as this trial begins to wind down? >> you heard at the top of the hour that lawmakers in the senate there eager to get this trial behind them and move on for what is a presidents' day weekend recess. for president biden, he's left town as we expect this conviction or acquittal vote later today. again, it is presidents' day weekend. he's spending the weekend at camp david for the first time as president. and it looks like we're not going to hear much from the president given that he's out of town. as i've been talking to white house advisers back and forth about his conspicuous silence about the impeachment trial throughout the week, they make this point which is that the president ran in the campaign on two things, one is unifying the country, the other as he promised on the night he was declared the winner is to lower the political temperature. they say for him to be weighing in on a daily basis on the developments in this impeachment trial would be counter to those promises and also bad political strategy. he's trying to get that $1.9 trillion covid relief bill passed. he's also moving forward soon after that to a big infrastructure package. he was meeting with lawmakers on capitol hill in the oval office this week about that. now, we did hear from him a bit yesterday more than we have in the past about what he's looking forward to in terms of republicans in this impeachment trial. let's listen so what he said yesterday. >> i'm just anxious to see what my republican friends do, if they stand up. >> you're not planning to speak with any of them? >> no, no, i'm not. >> so when we get this verdict, we should expect the press secretary jen psaki has indicated a written statement released by the white house, but do expect to see the president when he's on the road this week, he's participating in a televised town hall meeting from wisconsin on tuesday night. it seems like then he will have to weigh in on this process, using it as an opportunity to bring closure, unify the country in the end and he'll be on the road again later this week visiting a vaccine center in michigan, part of an effort by the white house to ramp up his sales pitch for that $1.9 trillion package. >> all right. always a pleasure. thanks. a new report this week with revealing details on many of those charged in the pro-trump mob. they have a common thread a history of financial troubles. this includes a texas real estate broker, jenna ryan charged with two federal misdemeanor downs of knowingly entering or remaining in a restricted government building without lawful authority and disorderly conduct. >> violence, i absolutely condemn. i think those people definitely need to be prosecuted, but not the innocent people that were just there at the event. >> she is one of the rioters profiled in the washington, d.c. post article which found that nearly 60% of the people facing charges related to the capitol riots showed signs of prior money troubles including bankruptcies, notices of eviction or foreclosure, bad debt or unpaid taxes over the past two decades. i'm joined by cynthia miller idrist from american university. she's the author of "hate in the homeland: the new global far right." thanks for joining us. you were quoted in the article saying i think what you're finding is more than just economic insecurity but a deep-seeded feeling of uneasiness about their financial situation, and that mobilized a lot of people that day. how was trump as the president, as the leader of this movement able to tap into those economic grievances so successfully you think? >> good morning. the thank you for having see he research is it's not people in absolute poverty or the most poor of any society or unemployed who are likely to mobilize to extremism, but a feeling of precariousness does -- or can predict it or can be a risk factor. so you see people who feel like they could lose something. they had that experience of growing up with an unemployed parent or having a bankruptcy or mortgage failure. then feeling like that thing could be lost. it could be taken away and given to someone else who doesn't deserve it. it's this precariousness mixed with entitle m. that can get mobilized quickly by misinformation as we've seen here that something has been stolen from you and given to someone who doesn't deserve it. >> so "the post" also details that the mob of trump supporters have bankruptcy or at least a bankruptcy rate of 18%. that's pretty significant. it's twice as high as the american public generally. a quarter of them have been sued for money they owed to a creditor and 1 in 5 of them faced losing their home at one point. this according to the court filings. to emphasize, these are the people who have been charged, not necessarily all of those present on january 6th. not everyone had money issues as we noted. what was the common thread that connected them all? >> so this was a complete toxic mix. what you see across the entire far-right spectrum typically is this very strong sense of threat. so that threat gets defined differently. for white supremacists they feel like they're losing a white majority society. it's being given away, demographic change in immigration is taking that from them. you'll see people protesting second amendment rights, the fear they'll be taken away or against shelter in place orders because they're rights are taken away. here you see the same language around the stop the steal, the election is being stolen. it's the feeling that something is taken away, something you deserve to have, and it will be given to someone else who doesn't deserve it. that's a powerful and common thread and one easily manipulated with rhetoric online. >> i want to talk about the extremist ideology for a moment. according to a new study, business owners and white collar workers made up about 40% of the people accused of taking part in the riot. what does that say about who is susceptible to extremist ideology? >> it tells us -- and we saw this, that so far 9% of those charged in that article that you cited at the beginning were actually unemployed. that's very consistent with what we know. it's not the poorest of any society or those who are unemployed that mobilized. it's those who feel like they're on the edge of losing something or that something could be taken away. so these maybe middle class, upper middle class even business owners, but for some reason they're easily manipulated by feeling they could be losing something. and that prior experience of loss, of economic loss or of a sense of precariousness from a childhood or earlier in their life is one of the things that can lead them to be more vulnerable to that misinformation. >> it is quite fascinating when you try to connect all the dots, the profile of these individuals. professor, thank you very much for joining us. appreciate your time. >> thank you for having me. a remarkable and direct exchange during impeachment q&a. it was a simple question that could have gotten a simple answer, but a trump attorney didn't want anything to do with it. the response to who won the election next. all your prescriptions all on the same day... we make filling your medicare prescriptions... ...go like clockwork. so you can get back to what you'd rather be doing! ♪ are the prosecutors right when they claim trump was telling a big lie or in your judgment did trump actually win the election? >> the counsel for the former president have 2 1/2 minutes. >> my judgment? who asked that. >> i did. >> my judgment is irrelevant in this proceeding. it absolutely is. what's supposed to happen here is the article of impeachment is -- >> the senate will be in order. >> it was quite a remarkable moment. that was trump's defense lawyer there refusing to say the former president lost the election after a question submitted by senator bernie sanders. joining me now is michael starr hopkins of northern star strategies. he also worked on the hillary clinton campaign. van der veen there deflected the question immediately trying to make it sound as if it was irrelevant to the process. others would argue it's the central reason for why we're here, a president who refused to accept a reality. what is your reaction to that? >> the lie lives on. the reason we're all here, the reason the capitol was stormed is alive again. that lawyer's failure to acknowledge it, failure to say what we all know is not just dangerous and irresponsible, honestly i think it's disbarible. lawyers are supposed to stand up and represent their client zealously but not lie. what he did there, i think was not just disrespectful to the members, to the american voters, but disrespectful to america and the idea and the notion of it. >> you have to wonder if he genuinely believes that or if he was doing that because he knows that his client would be enraged if he saw him stand there and said i believe trump, in fact, lost the election. let me move on to the house managers. their testimony, if it doesn't sway enough republican senators, which is what it appears is happening right now, and trump is, in fact, acquitted, is there a way that you see democrats and even republicans perhaps holding both the president accountable or democrats just simply holding republicans accountable? can they do that? >> absolutely. i think it's at the ballot box. looking forward to 2022, the midterms, the real way to hold people accountable of reminding the voters how cowardly republicans who are failing to convict have been and how cowardly and dangerous the republicans who voted not to certify the election have been. you know, when you look at that video shown at the beginning of the democratic presentation, it was a damning video that i think is going to resonate in a lot of places all over the country. especially when you put at the end ofit your congressman or congresswoman voted not to convict. >> isn't that precisely why some of these republicans refused to abandon trump because he still has that political clout within their respective constituencies whether it's in states like missouri, texas or south carolina, they are all in on trump because they know politically he's the safer bet? >> i think it's a divided party right now. you're seeing a lot of republicans on the right wing of the party going to battle with the more moderate ring of the party. it's the mitt romney side of the party against the jim jordan, ted cruz and josh hawley branch. it's causing a real division in the party. that's why you're hearing rumors of a third party that come around every 10, 15 years. here you're seeing what could be the beginning of a fracturing within the party that really makes republicans more of a regional party and less of an ability to win national elections again for a while. >> we've been talking about this on and off, though the focus has been on president trump, it's important to note that trump wasn't the only republican who spoke at that january 6th rally. i believe there were 12 other speakers including two sitting congress men, you see them on your screen. should they also be held accountable and why aren't we seeing enough action against them so far? >> well, i think there's going to be two different tracks. there's the accountability in terms of criminal liability and we're not really sure in terms of the justice department or, you know, investigations whether or not there is going to be criminal liability for people who incited or were involved in this. then there's the election track. i think, you know, when you start to see people lose committee assignments, donors no longer donating to these elected officials there will be a price to pay in terms their ability to maintain their seat. at the end of the day we'll have to have a conversation about whether we are who we say we are. if we're going to be the most powerful company, the shining star as reagan put it, we have to live up to that. we can't be a bunch of empty rhetoric. right now we're not living up to saying who we are. >> i would go out on a limb and say a lot of americans agree with you on that front. thank you, michael, for your time. you could say the defense trolled the democrats by using their own words against them but what did the former president think about that? we'll go to florida for that reaction in a bit. you're watching the extended coverage of the second impeachment trial of president trump here on msnbc. (sam) gamers! he who is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else. take fuzzywuzzy28. blamin' losses on a laggy network. only one or two. verizon 5g ultra wideband is here, the fastest 5g in the world, with ultra... low... lag! stop blaming the network and start becoming the best gamers in the ga-- that escalated quickly. (sam) 5g ultra wideband, now in parts of many cities. this is 5g built right. only from verizon. all right, so, once the impeachment trial wraps up, the former president has new legal problems that he'll have to confront. prosecutors in georgia just started a criminal investigation this week into phone calls where donald trump begged for joe biden's victory to be overturned. there is also new reporting by the "washington post," the source tells the paper, a prosecutor plans to examine a post-election-day phone call between senator lindsey graham and georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. joining me now, correspondent cori coffin at the state's capitol in atlanta. cori, good morning to you. bring us up to speed on the investigation into the president. what have we learned? >> reporter: yeah, eamon, good morning to you. fulton county district attorney's office launched this latest investigation, and this is the second investigation brought about in the state of georgia regarding that phone call between president trump and secretary of state brad raffensperger. now, to remind folks, in that january 2nd phone call, former president trump can be heard asking raffensperger to find, find some 11,780 votes. and of course, that was one more vote than the margin of victory that biden received here in the state. so, in her letter, fulton county district attorney fani willis requested that government offices keep any evidence they have, not to lose any paperwork regarding that phone call, citing a possible criminal investigation that her office has now launched, as well. now, this has also been cited, this january 2nd call has also been cited by house managers in president trump's second impeachment trial. and willis spoke with my colleague, rachel maddow, finding out if this citing in the impeachment trial has any effect on georgia's latest criminal investigation. listen to what she has to say about that. >> yeah, it's a -- i mean, if we watch -- so, i just want to be clear. if we watch that trial and witnesses come forward that are relevant to my investigation, certainly, we will do our due diligence and interview them, but whether there was an impeachment or not an impeachment would not change the fact that something occurred here within my jurisdiction that may be criminal. and if that is the case, it needed to be investigated. >> reporter: and in terms of the timeline, we have not received a timeline from raffensperger's office regarding his investigation that he launched, citing a criminal complaint. so, his was the first investigation that was launched. the secretary of state's investigation here in the state of georgia. and willis' investigation. she says any grand jury that might be brought in or possible subpoena that might be given wouldn't come up until a march timeline because they're going to spend the next few months investigating this thoroughly. now, of course, this is not the first state to investigate trump criminally. his first investigation regarding criminal complaints would be in the state of new york. eamon? >> all right, cori coffin on what sounds like a rainy day in atlanta, georgia. cori, thank you, as always. breaking news about one phone call that turned into a shouting match between president trump and kevin mccarthy. we're going to have the new details emerging this morning as well as reaction from capitol hill, all in just a few minutes. hill, all in just a few minutes. sure, your health insurance tells you to see a doctor but, um, look around. these days it's not that easy. you're telling me. but humana helps make it easy. human care gives you tons of ways to talk to your doctor: phone, computer, in person, or tablet. hey jean! hi! this is just a quick follow up. your numbers are looking great. you don't even have to put on shoes. ooo! easy peasy. you like that, huh? mhm. humana. a more human way to healthcare. good day, everyone, from msnbc world headquarters in new york. i'm ayman mohyeldin with new drama building in washington at this hour. we begin with breaking news. new details of an expletive-filled phone call during the riots between republican house leader kevin mccarthy and then-president donald trump, and it is prompting a democrat to call for the suspension of trump's second impeachment trial, now entering day five on capitol hill. mccarthy's call to ask trump for help on january 6th devolved into a heated argument, according to reports. republican congresswoman jamie herrera beutler says trump initially told mccarthy that it was antifa that had breached the capitol, and when mccarthy refuted that, trump said, quote, well, kevin, i guess these people are more upset about the election than you are. nbc news is also reporting a gop lawmaker briefed on the conversation says that mccarthy asked trump at one point "who the expletive do you think you're talking to?" this dramatic turn came when republicans did not get the answers they were looking for from the defense team. they were asked if trump should show concern for the safety of his vice president, mike pence. now, here is the question from senator mitt romney. >> when president trump sent the disparaging tweet at 2:24 p.m. regarding vice president pence, was he aware that vice president had been removed from the senate by the secret service for his safety? >> the answer is no. at no point was the president informed the vice president was in any danger, because the house rushed through this impeachment in seven days with no evidence, there is nothing at all in the record on this point. >> all right, so, here's the follow-up. a similar but more detailed question from republican senator bill cassidy. >> senator tuberville reports that he spoke to president trump at 2:15 p.m. he told the president that the vice president had just evacuated. "i presume it was understood at this time that rioters had entered the capitol and threatened the safety of senators and the vice president." even after hearing of this at 2:24 p.m., president trump tweeted that mike pence lacked courage. he did not call for law enforcement backup until then. the tweet and lack of response suggests president trump did not care that vice president pence was endangered or that law enforcement was overwhelmed. does this show that president trump was tolerant of the intimidation of vice president pence? >> directly, no, but i dispute the premise of your facts. i dispute the facts that are laid out in that question. and unfortunately, we're not going to know the answer to the facts in this proceeding because the house did nothing to investigate what went on. we're trying to get hearsay from mr. tuberville. >> all right, "washington post" reporter josh dawsey tweeted that pence's team disagreed with the assessment that the president was concerned about pence's safety, saying that trump did not call pence on that day or for five days after that. now, democratic senator sheldon whitehouse says there's only one way to get to the bottom of what trump knew and when he knew it -- suspend the trial and depose both mccarthy and tuberville. now, on this historic day, we have a trio of nbc reporters to help us start out the hour. we begin with that breaking news and more details on that heated phone call between mccarthy and trump during the capitol riot. nbc's marianna sotomayor is on capitol hill following it. marianna, let's begin with you. what else do we know about the specifics of that phone call and how it may be a factor in this impeachment trial? >> reporter: hey, ayman. well, you and your team did an excellent job really drawing the lines and making the points about what happened when we learned about this phone call that happened on january 6th. it was the first time we also saw a congresswoman, as you mentioned, jamie herrera beutler, noting and confirming details that, one, the phone call did happen, two, that mccarthy was upset and pushed back against the president. the president responding and saying, well, yes, it seems like my supporters are trying to defend me better than you are. and notably, at the end of that lengthy statement, she also calls on other republicans to come forth and confirm more details about this call, implying that mccarthy has told a number of people in his caucus about it. this all coming as today is expected to be the final day, but of course, it's also the day that senators and also house impeachment managers as well as trump's defense really have this final time to discuss whether to bring forth witnesses. that was not the expectation at all during the course of this week, but now that could change. you're hearing from democratic senator sheldon whitehouse. there's been some senators who have since tweeted democrats, saying that this does bring forth new and relevant evidence that should be discussed and considered. but of course, both republicans and democrats did not want to see this trial last for too long. they're actually in recess next week. they're hoping they can keep that time to go back home. but this definitely could change the course of what could happen here. however, as of right now, everything is still according to schedule. that schedule is, at 10:00 a.m., the senate is going to convene. there's a number of procedural motions that have to happen. they are going to consider that question about witnesses, and if they decide not to bring them forward, well, then the defense and the prosecution will have two hours, if they want to use all that time, for their closing arguments. it's at that point, once it wraps up, that the senate will vote whether to acquit or to convict the former president. if they decide to acquit, there are conversations between republicans and democrats of potentially censuring him after this. but even though right now it doesn't seem like there are those 17 republicans to be able to do so. one thing i want to quickly point out is, if there is a decision to bring forth witnesses, well, that completely changes that whole schedule i just laid out for you. senators would have to more or less go back and vote again on a completely new schedule. it's unclear how long that would even take. but we don't want to get too ahead of ourselves, since right now, at least it looks like, this trial will come to a conclusion by midafternoon. ayman? >> all right, and we'll find out more in four hours from now, when that trial gets back under way. turning now to nbc white house correspondent monica alba. she is in west palm beach, florida, near where former president trump is. monica, lots of developments over the past couple days about the president's reaction to how this is all shaping up. certainly with his defense team. there's been new reporting about his attorneys. in fact, one of them reportedly wanted to quit. what did you learn? >> reporter: overnight, "the new york times" reporting, ayman, that david schoen, someone who we did hear from yesterday, briefly considered quitting the legal team because he didn't agree with how they planned to use some of their own video evidence, those montages that were played repeatedly yesterday. now, according to "the new york times," former president donald trump called schoen and asked him to consider staying, and ultimately, that is what he decided to do. but today, you're not going to see him, anyway, as a part of this group of attorneys because, remember, he observes the saabage. so, as of last night at 5:00 p.m. and all of today, he will not be a part of the proceedings. so, it won't come as a surprise that he's not there. we shouldn't take that as something to mean that he has really formally quit. we always knew that was the plan. so that is why you'll see instead the people makek the closing arguments today will be bruce castor and michael van der veen. but this really speaks to the turmoil within the group of people trying to represent former president trump, who, as you mentioned, was extremely unhappy with his defense earlier in the week. i'm told he was more pleased with the presentation yesterday. he was supportive of the fact that they didn't need to use all of their time. that's something that the trump team feels would help them. but you have to really look to what they laid out. and all of these claims that they made about the democrats using misleading evidence or selectively editing videos. that's exactly what the trump team was doing. they were doing that with everything that they presented, as well as spreading continued misinformation. and something that's so critical here to remind viewers, ayman. the first group of attorneys who were going to work with the former president on this trial ended up leaving because they disagreed with the fact that trump wanted them to focus on bogus voter fraud claims. but we got a glimpse of that yesterday and how this team is handling it in a very interesting exchange between a question that senator bernie sanders had for the defense. take a listen. >> the house prosecutors have stated over and over again that president trump was perpetrating a big lie when he repeatedly claimed that the election was stolen from him and that he actually won the election by a landslide. are the prosecutors right when they claim that trump was telling a big lie, or in your judgment, did trump actually win the election? >> my judgment? who asked that? >> i did. >> my judgment's irrelevant in this proceeding. it absolutely is. >> reporter: you hear those groans in the background there, ayman, because this is the case the house impeachment managers have been trying to connect the dots on, those months of lies, really, that we heard from donald trump, after he lost the election. that's something that then even michael van der veen couldn't admit out loud, even though earlier in the week, bruce castor actually surprised people when, in his presentation, he acknowledged that joe biden was, of course, the current and rightful winner of the presidential election. but for his part, this is remarkable. we have not heard at all from donald trump this week. and i am told that's because he has been advised to not weigh in so as not to derail what, really, everybody in the trump orbit believes is heading for an acquittal at this point, ayman. >> all right, monica alba, west palm beach, florida. monica, thank you. let's bring in politico's eugene daniels and the "washington post's" anna garon. eugene, first to you. your reaction to that spirited call between leader kevin mccarthy and donald trump. does this provide more evidence into trump's hesitancy to stop the capitol riot? >> absolutely, because the house impeachment managers have been saying that the president wasn't doing what he should have been doing. they've been raising questions about how the president was thinking, what his state of mind was. and as more details come out about this call, we're hearing that, right? we're seeing that, one, president trump has always had a very difficult time saying bad things or trying to stop people who he thinks might be fans of his, right? always. no matter how hard his aides push the issue, it seems like they have to kind of yank him towards that, towards saying, you know, please go away, please stop attacking the capitol. that's what we saw in this piece. and i think that you're going to see house democrats and democratic senators on twitter and in interviews ask more questions about this call and possibly try to get some kind of deposition of mccarthy, because mccarthy, after this call, went to palm beach and did that kind of awkward picture with president trump, with them standing next to each other. and what that did was show that the gop is still very much with president trump, even though mccarthy knew kind of what president trump's state of mind was during the january 6th insurrection. >> let's talk about mike pence for a moment, and specifically just how bizarre it was, where the former president didn't seem to try and slow down the riots, even when and if his vice president was in that specific moment in peril. what does that tell you and why haven't we heard from the former vice president, except, you know, unofficially, as we heard there from josh dawsey earlier? >> yeah. ayman, i think in answer to your first question, the former president, when he was back at the white house, after he spoke to the crowd outside on january 6th -- i was there that day with the president in the press pool when he made that address, and he referenced pence a couple of times. in fact, he indicated that he was late getting to speak to the crowd because he had been talking to pence, sort of making a last appeal. so, he was already mad. he was mad at the vice president, and he knew what was coming. the vice president had told him at that point that he was not going to try to intervene. i mean, he could not. what trump was asking pence to do was a physical impossiblity, but trump somehow had in his mind that pence could act on his behalf and pence had just told him he would not do so. so, trump stews in that speech for more than an hour. he's hopping mad at pence and he goes back into the white house. and right basically at the time that he was arriving back at the white house was when things started to get really dicey for pence inside the capitol. trump was apparently in no mood to try to help out mike pence, who had been, of course, nothing but loyal for four years, and that is the way the day went. and during this trial, we have seen very clearly that the president had information, the now former president, had plenty of information about the peril that pence was in, and yet, he did not try to lessen that peril in any way, and he did not try to talk to pence directly. as to what pence has done since, he has gone back to being the loyal soldier that he was for former president trump throughout. he's left town and gone back to indiana, and we have not heard from him since. i suspect at some point that will change. he said he's going to have a podcast. he's a former conservative radio talk show host. so going back to his roots. but we have not heard from him yet. >> yeah, we're starting to hear from others who served, including nikki haley, with her reaction about all this. let me play for you and our viewers this clip. it's not a -- it's a montage, if you will, of what the house managers presented during the impeachment trial. watch this. >> are you an american? act like a [ bleep ]! >> you guys have no idea what the [ bleep ] you're doing! >> america! >> not one idea! don't touch me, bro. [ bleep ] >> get the [ bleep ] out of here! >> your paycheck! you guys! you can't even call yourself america! you broke your [ bleep ] today! 1776 [ bleep ]! >> all right, so, donald trump touted himself as the law and order president. eugene, how effective do you think this video, especially that moment, where they were attacking, you know, police officers or capitol police -- how effective do you think that video was in undermining the president's own position with republicans in order to sway them to convict him? >> i think that montage and all of those moments that we saw aren't just about this impeachment trial, right? they're also about largely how people view president trump, as you said, this kind of law and order president. there's always been a question, ever since president trump started to call himself the law and order president, is who is he talking about here, right? when you talk to activists on both sides of the aisle, the thing that i kept hearing throughout the trump years was that, you know, president trump is saying to americans, white americans, and more specifically, trump supporters, that i will make sure that those people follow the rules of law and order. i will make sure that they follow the law and they are in order. and you know, when you watch what happened on january 6th, and as we saw some of those videos that we hadn't seen before this week, you see people walking around like they own the building, like they weren't trespassing, like they weren't breaking the law. they said in interviews, you know, we thought we were allowed to be there. there is this completely different way that they view the things that they're able to do and the way things, you know, people who, frankly, look like you and i, ayman, are able to do, right? >> yeah. >> that they may have a separate set of laws that they have to follow. >> anne, i hate to ask you to speculate, so i'm going to kind of couch this in a question that sounds analytical. what happens from here? do you anticipate that democrats want to try and call in witnesses that could potentially delay wrapping this trial up, just for the sake of getting these witnesses in, knowing, also, that the chances of trying to get republicans, or at least 17 of them, swayed to convict the former president is a slim chance? do you think there's an appetite for that? >> well, ayman, what i think is clear at this point is that the news of this call between the president and then leader mccarthy during the events on january 6th has changed the terms of what had seemed a pretty set and clear agenda. i do not know that that is something that democrats are, beyond sheldon whitehouse, are going to make a big push for. their theory throughout has been that they needed to present what is an air-tight a case as they could try to make and then let the fact that, first of all, the expected defense from former president trump would not be -- match the same kind of legal standards. in their view, that's already happened. and then raise the cost for republican senators who would still vote to acquit. to change that pattern now, to add witnesses, to add days to this would muddy their original argument and plan that, look, you know, we presented an absolutely air-tight case against the former president, and the only reason that republicans would vote to acquit is because of their own craven politics. it starts to get a little -- all those arguments start to get a little dicey, even though in most democrats' view, the contents of that call are helpful to their side. >> all right, annanne gearan, eugene daniels, thank you. constitutional cancel culture. president trump's team coins a new term hoping to sway senators. >> this case, unfortunately, is about political hatred. it has become very clear that the house democrats hate donald trump. >> will this argument stick? we take it off with someone who has some special insight, a former impeachment adviser to president bill clinton. he joins us next. dviser to president bill clinton he joins us next old spice dynay helps get you off your couch. and into the driver's seat. (vo) last year subaru and our retailers donated 50 million meals to feeding america. and yet, one in four children may still face hunger. so, subaru and our retailers are doing it again, donating an additional 100 million meals to help those in need. love. it's never been needed more than right now. subaru. more than a car company. (vo 2) to join us with a donation, go to subaru.com. [♪♪] when you have diabetes, managing your blood sugar is crucial. try boost glucose control. the patented blend is clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels. boost glucose control products contain high quality protein and key nutrients to support immune health. try boost. ♪ ♪ we made usaa insurance for veterans like martin. when a hailstorm hit, he needed his insurance to get it done right, right away. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa when it comes to laundry, usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. everyone thinks their way is the right way. i wash on delicate. i just stuff everything in. you have to wash on cold, because it saves energy. the secret is, tide pods work no matter how you wash. so, everyone is right. it's got to be tide. when you switch to xfinity mobile, you're choosing to get connected to the most reliable network nationwide, now with 5g included. discover how to save up to $300 a year with shared data starting at $15 a month, or get the lowest price for one line of unlimited. come into your local xfinity store to make the most of your mobile experience. you can shop the latest phones, bring your own device, or trade in for extra savings. stop in or book an appointment to shop safely with peace of mind at your local xfinity store. no thinking person could seriously believe that the president's january 6th speech on the ellipse was in any way an incitement to violence or insurrection. >> we have reason to believe the house managers manipulated evidence and selectively edited footage. >> mr. trump was not in any way, shape, or form instructing these people to fight or to use physical violence. >> any trial is about far more than president trump. it is about silencing and banning the speech the majority does not agree with. >> donald trump's lawyers mounting their defense in that clip we showed you. they argued trump was not to blame for what happened at the capitol on january 6th and that his rhetoric at the rally was free speech, protected under the first amendment. and they did it using less than their three, i guess, almost three of their 16 hours that were allotted to them. joining me now is guy smith, an adviser to former president bill clinton during his impeachment. guy, it's great to have you with us this morning. what did you make of trump's defensive strategy and his team's approach to all of this? did they put a dent in the prosecution's case at all? >> well, you know, in a trial, a lawyer -- if you don't have the facts, you pound on the law. if you don't have the law, you pound on the table. and we saw a lot of pounding on the table yesterday. the house managers have made an air-tight case, and these guys ignored throughout the 3 1/2 hours the real facts and pretended like they didn't exist or weren't important. and the question from senator sanders was one of the critical questions, and this lawyer, who usually is defending grand theft auto, looks into the senate well and says, who asked that question? i mean, what kind of disrespect is that? and it's also a distraction. i think they did a terrible job and they showed no real understanding of the constitution or the senate processes, and it showed. it was just a weak performance. >> it was quite a remarkable moment that you referenced there. i'm also curious to your thoughts on another one. what do you make of senators, republican senators, meeting with trump's attorneys throughout this? >> well, remember, impeachment is a political event, not a legal event. it's not a trial like on tv where we see a real trial in real court. it's a political event. and i'm not all that troubled, because it's a partisan type of thing. it didn't change anything. it actually may have made their lawyers a little better, because cruz, for all of his craven political decisions, he's a trained lawyer and may have helped them. but i don't think it changes anything. i mean, this is a political event. i don't see there being 17 republicans, even with the mccarthy revelation, although that certainly does alter the dynamic this morning. >> i want to go back for a moment, if i can, to something lead house manager jamie raskin said during their arguments about what questions the defense needed to answer. take a listen to this. >> one, why did president trump not tell his supporters to stop the attack on the capitol as soon as he learned of it? why did president trump do nothing to stop the attack for at least two hours after the attack began? on january 6th, why did president trump not at any point that day condemn the violent insurrection and the insurrectionists? if a president incited a violent insurrection against our government, would that be a high crime and misdemeanor? >> do you feel the defense team answered those questions at all? >> not a single time. not a single time. they just ignored it, and that was the pounding on the table that i was talking about, because the answer shows that trump was directly culpable, and there isn't an answer that makes him look good. i mean, the answer is that he's guilty as hell! and the republican senators know this, but this is a political event, and the republicans are terrified of the trump base, and you're seeing the republican party come apart right in front of us. you've got the nikki haley just yesterday coming out, criticizing trump. and what's happening is, the republican party is weakening right in front of us and will be going forward. >> let me ask you really quickly, if i can, guy, about witnesses. do you think they are warranted at this point, the way that senator whitehouse has called for? kevin mccarthy or senator tuberville? >> i think that they are warranted. i don't think it will happen. i think the democrats would like this to be over also because they've made an air-tight case, not to the republican senators, but to the american public and to history. that's where this will really play out. but if we got witnesses, it would be devastating, more devastating, to trump. think about the national security implications of the nuclear code falling into these insurrectionists' hands, and who, which, would the russians or chinese have bought that football? what would have happened if that had happened? that is what we're dealing with and could find out from witnesses. >> yeah, quite a scary thought there. guy smith, thank you so much for your time this morning. greatly appreciate it. >> thank you. all right, coming up, president biden arrives at camp david as his impeachment counterprogramming continues. but before he left, he did provide a word or two about the trial drama, and they were quite pointed. you're going to hear those next. e pointed. you're going theo ar those next. ♪ i've got the brains,♪ ♪ you've got the looks ♪ ♪ let's make lots of money ♪ ♪ you've got the brawn ♪ ♪ i've got the brains ♪ ♪ let's make lots of... ♪ ♪ uh uh uh ♪ ♪ oohhh ♪ ♪ there's a lot of opportunities ♪ with allstate drivers who switched saved over $700 saving is easy when you're in good hands. allstate. click or call to switch today. for decades, most bladder leak pads were similar. until always discreet changed that. by inventing a pad you never thought possible. it's incredibly thin. because it protects differently. with two rapiddry layers that overlap, where you need it most. for strong protection, that's always discreet. it's time to question your protection. it's time for always discreet. introducing voltaren arthritis pain gel. the first full prescription strength non-steroidal anti-inflammatory gel... available over the counter. voltaren is powerful arthritis pain relief in a gel. voltaren. the joy of movement. at t-mobile, we have a plan built just for customers 55 and up. saving 50% vs. other carriers with 2 unlimited lines for less than $30 each. call 1-800-t-mobile or go to t-mobile.com/55. president biden is expected to formally address the impeachment trial after the verdict but then turn the page next week as he looks to push his agenda forward. nbc's mike memoli is live in washington, d.c. mike, good to have you with us. so, a two-parter for you, mike. what do we expect to hear from the president? and i know it's a bit early, so probably not enough reaction yet from the white house about calls by senator whitehouse to call in witnesses that could potentially drag this on beyond today and this weekend. >> reporter: yeah, that's right, ayman. i mean, the consistent position of this white house has been to largely ignore this trial, in fact, and to decline to comment on the day-to-day developments. and so, no reaction on what could potentially really prolong this trial, much to the chagrin of white house officials who really want to push forward and continue to sell his $1.9 trillion american rescue plan. and ayman, stop me if we've heard this before. i feel like we've been talking about it since the transition when i was up in wilmington, the white house is really -- and the president himself, president-elect at the time, says congress has a job to handle the impeachment trial, but he would continue to be focused on the work ahead of him. but over the course of this week, we have heard day by day slightly more and more from the president. we certainly did yesterday as he was taking a stroll to look at what was that valentine's day display from the first lady. take a listen to what he is looking for as we move forward towards this vote. >> i'm just anxious to see what my republican friends do, if they stand up. >> and you're not planning to speak with any of them about what -- >> no, i am not. >> reporter: now, when it comes to the strategy here, one white house official put it to me this way -- the american people have seen a president who acts more like a cable pundit than a president and a leader for this country, and they voted him out of office, so why would joe biden, president biden now, be out there on a daily basis weighing in? so, what are we going to see this week? well, if and when there is a vote, look for a paper statement from the president, likely because he's at camp david. he's going to be spending the long weekend there. it is presidents' day, after all. but when he comes back, we will see him participate in a televised town hall from wisconsin on tuesday night. that will be an opportunity, officials say, for him to try to bring this process to some closure here, speak about the importance of now uniting and focusing on the important work ahead, and then back on the road again on thursday. he's going to be traveling to michigan to visit a vaccine manufacturing plant. obviously, the focus here, doing everything he can to put the pandemic behind, and then the white house ready for a joint session address to congress sometime in march in which he's going to move to the next phase of his agenda and a recovery plan, potentially significant stimulus program. largely, they're going to be selling it as an infrastructure plan, ayman. so, maybe we'll get that long-awaited infrastructure week, after all. >> long-awaited, indeed. mike memoli in d.c. mike, always a pleasure. thanks, my friend. when it comes to the evidence, did the impeachment managers make the best use of the insurrectionists' own words in all of this? we're going to put that to the reporter who spent three weeks inside a pro trump qanon chat room. that's next. trump qanon chat room that's next. want to make a name for yourself in gaming? then make a name for yourself. even if your office, and bank balance are... far from glamorous. that means expensing nothing but pizza. your expenses look good, and your books are set for the month! ...going up against this guy... and pitching your idea 100 times. no, no, no! no. i like it. -he likes it! ...and you definitely love that. intuit quickbooks helps small businesses be more successful with payments, payroll, banking and live bookkeeping. tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? what if your clothes could stay fresh for weeks? now they can! this towel has already been used and it still smells fresh. pour a cap of downy unstopables into your washing machine before each load and enjoy fresher smelling laundry for up to 12-weeks. do we really need a sign to live, laugh, and love? -yes. -the answer is no. i can help new homeowners not become their parents. -kee-on-oh... -nope. -co-ee-noah. -no. -joaquin. -no. it just takes practice. give it a shot. [ grunts, exhales deeply ] -did you hear that? -yeah. it's a constant battle. we're gonna open a pdf. who's next? progressive can't save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto with us. no fussin', no cussin', and no -- when you bundle home and auto with us. (sam) gamers! he who is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else. take fuzzywuzzy28. blamin' losses on a laggy network. only one or two. verizon 5g ultra wideband is here, the fastest 5g in the world, with ultra... low... lag! stop blaming the network and start becoming the best gamers in the ga-- that escalated quickly. (sam) 5g ultra wideband, now in parts of many cities. this is 5g built right. only from verizon. with new rewards from chase freedom unlimited, i now earn even more cash back? oh i got to tell everyone. hey, rita! you now earn 3% on dining, including takeout! bon appetit. hey kim, you now earn 5% on travel purchased through chase! way ahead of you! hey, neal! you can earn 3% at drugstores. buddy, i'm right here. why are you yelling? because that's what i do! you're always earning with 5% cash back on travel purchased through chase, 3% at drugstores, 3% on dining including takeout, and 1.5% on everything else you buy. chase. make more of what's yours. as one man explained on a live stream he taped from inside the capitol, quote, our president wants us here. we wait and take orders from our president. >> does he not realize president trump called us to siege the place? >> let's call trump, yes! dude! dude, let's tell trump what's on. >> trump would be very upset. >> he'd be like -- no, just say we love him! we love you, bro! no, he'll be happy! what do you mean? we're fighting for trump! >> all right, more evidence presented by house impeachment managers of rioters claiming they stormed the capitol because that's what donald trump wanted. joining me now is stewart thompson, opinion writer and editor with "the new york times." stewart, good to have you with us. you spent quite a lot of time in chat rooms listening to those same voices, some of those that we just played there on our screen. from what you've heard so far, do you think impeachment managers presented the most effective exchanges about the motivation as to why those individuals there in connection to the president? >> yeah, well, they certainly could have done more. i think the experience i had watching these chat rooms for several weeks, there's lots of conversation about storming the capitol, about planning to, you know, wage violence at the capitol after the rally, and their expectations for what the rally was, was evidence that trump was going to release. and they were saying, if that didn't happen, then it was up to them to take action. so, a lot of the expectations that had been leading up since the election that kind of morphed from the stop the steal movement, then the qanon conspiracy, were all laying groundwork for what unfolded. >> they also presented evidence of extremist groups involved in the attacks. actually, it was some information that we knew about going into it, based on what the d.c. police had done. congresswoman diana degette gave a practical laundry list -- proud boys, boogaloo bois. was it surprising that they all came together under one sort of umbrella to stage this attack on the capitol? and have you seen in the chat rooms any sign that this could be the beginning of an alliance of sorts of these bad actors going forward? >> yeah, it's not surprising. the movement, the stop the steal movement and the qanon conspiracy, these are big umbrellas. they take a lot of different people from a lot of different walks of life, which is one of the surprising parts of listening to that chat room. these are more like your neighbors, your aunts and uncles. that's a part of this community. and then what we were watching was following people from facebook, for example, into these groups, and then, suddenly, they're chatting with some militant organizers, part of some of the groups that you mentioned there. and that's a funnel really that's created, and it brings people in over time. so, yeah, it's not surprising to see that there's a mix of people. you see a number of people charged with different kinds of activities, and they come from different walks of life. some of them are militant people, but some of them are bartenders or, you know, people that you might recognize sort of in the street. so, yeah, it's a big movement, for sure. >> based on what you've seen and what you've reported, is there any doubt in your mind that their motivation was a result of president trump? >> no, it's not. and i think part of the trial focusing on the rally and his comments that day, that's only a piece of it. for weeks and weeks, people were expecting to go to washington. they believed trump was calling them there. and they had a belief, at least in the qanon crowd, that there was going to be evidence, there was going to be a change to the outcome of the election, and that was the expectation that was put forth by the president, by his associates, and by a network of influencers who participate online and social media with a lot of these theories. so, that was a lot of the groundwork that culminated on january 6th, but a lot of it was leading up to that day. >> yeah, a very good point on that front as well. stuart thompson, great to have you. always a pleasure. thanks. still ahead, the defense boils it down to political vengeance, but the prosecution says the stakes are high, saying a scene like this could happen again, believe it or not. but what's congress' take in all of this? we're going to ask texas representative mark veveasey, wn we return. aveasey, when we return. darrell's family uses gain flings now so their laundry smells more amazing than ever. isn't that the dog's towel? hey, me towel su towel. more gain scent plus oxi boost and febreze in every gain fling. i'm greg, i'm 68 years old. i do motivational speaking in addition to the substitute teaching. i honestly feel that that's my calling-- to give back to younger people. i think most adults will start realizing that they don't recall things as quickly as they used to or they don't remember things as vividly as they once did. i've been taking prevagen for about three years now. people say to me periodically, "man, you've got a memory like an elephant." it's really, really helped me tremendously. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. ♪ ♪ (quiet piano music) (loud music & noises) ♪ ♪ (quiet piano music) comfort in the extreme. the lincoln family of luxury suvs. liberty mutual customizes- wait... am i in one of those liberty mutual commercials where they stand in front of the statue of liberty and talk about how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need? uhhh... yes. huh... what happens in this one? seagulls. oh, i like it. how are you doing? (seagulls sounds) only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ (judith) at fisher investments, we do things differently and other money managers don't understand why. (money manager) because our way works great for us! (judith) but not for your clients. that's why we're a fiduciary, obligated to put clients first. (money manager) so, what do you provide? cookie cutter portfolios? (judith) nope, we tailor portfolios to our client's needs. (money manager) but you do sell investments that earn you high commissions, right? (judith) we don't have those. (money manager) so what's in it for you? (judith) our fees are structured so we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments we're clearly different. newspaper coverage of the impeachment trial. "the washington post," today, highlights the defense argument that the trial is based on hate. the article notes that trump lawyers accuse democrats of hatred, vitriol, and opportunism. the trial was squeezed into a single column, on the front page, to make room for a photograph marking the lunar new year. and a sidebar piece in "the new york times" says trump's lawyers performed like previous-trump-employed barristers, twisting facts and attacking opponents. as the senate trial heads into its fifth and possibly final day, democrats have been urging the senate to convict donald trump. warning, that he could fuel violence if he runs for office, again. but the defense says, this is all about politics. >> i'm not afraid of donald trump running again, in four years. i'm afraid he's going to run again, and lose. because he can do this, again. >> the article of impeachment, now before the senate, is an unjust and blatantly unconstitutional act of political vengeance. >> we would like to discuss the hatred, the vitriol, the political opportunism, that has brought us here today. >> all right. joining me now is texas congressman, marc veasey, a democratic member of the house arms services and energy and commerce committees. congressman, thank you so much for your time, this morning. which one is it, sir, from your perspective? are democrats really worried about president trump running again and losing, as congressman ted lieu said there, in his comments? or is it political rhetoric? >> i think that the entire country should be worried about donald trump running again and losing. i mean, it's clear, that -- that -- that he has an emotional hold on some people, in this country. and it's, also, clear that he's a clear-and-present danger to our democracy. and he only cares about himself, and he will do and say anything, in order for him to prevail. and someone that -- that is that caught up in themselves is not a good person, is not -- it's not a healthy person, to be running our country. and so, i think that we should all be concerned that -- that he'll run again because it could be quite devastating. >> let me get your thoughts on the new reporting of an expletive-ridden phone call between house minority leader kevin mccarthy and donald trump during the insurrection. sources tell nbc news that mccarthy called trump, asking for help, only to be told by trump, quote, well, kevin, i guess, these people are more upset about the election than you are. what does this say to you? what does it reveal to you? what impact do you think this new information could have on the trial, if anything? >> yeah. you know, a couple of things there. you know, the first is that, you know, and let me tell ya. i don't know if trump ever had any-better angels of his nature. but it's clear. it shows you where his mindset was, at that time. that he was not mentally well. and that he had reached his breaking point, and that he had lost his mind. that he wasn't, you know, where his -- his mind wasn't where it should be and that he thought he was going to hold himself up into the white house and that mob could actually help him maintain power instead of him having to leave the white house, on january the 20th. and that's scary, to think that someone that is the leader of the free world, would possess that -- that -- that -- that sort of nature, at that time. but i think, equally as troubling, too. knowing that the minority leader and the president had that exchange, and that he got on the plane to go and see the former president. that's very disturbing. very troubling. he should've been the first person to vote for the articles of impeachment. knowing that he had this conversation with the president. it just -- you know, we can never put our party before country. and that -- it sounds like, that's exactly what the minority leader did. and -- and -- and -- and -- and he should, also, be concerned about trump running for president again and losing. >> you -- you've tweeted out, earlier this week, that the senate must hold president trump accountable. do you have any confidence in the case, today, that in fact, if it does, you know, wind down today that, in fact, he may be convicted? and if not, do you plan on, or do you anticipate, seeing any kind of censure measure come out of the house, against the president, going forward? >> you know, it -- i -- i -- i think it's too early, right now, to look that far into the future. what i will tell you is that i don't think the founding fathers ever envisioned for a president to be able to, you know, act a complete fool. or do whatever it is that they want to do. and -- and then, and not be held accountable, from the very beginning until the very end. presidents of the united states need to be held accountable for their actions. if you commit treason, on january the 20th, at 11:00 a.m., on the last day of your presidency. you need to be held accountable for that. it shouldn't matter that he's no longer in office. and so, i think, that it's important that -- that the senate do the right thing and that we send the right message, to future people, who seek this office. that they will be held accountable for all of their actions. particularly, when they rise to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors. >> congressman marc veasey, sir, greatly appreciate it you getting up early and joining us this saturday morning on day five of former-president trump's second impeachment trial. what did the president know? and when did he know it? breaking down the timeline of a very pivotal phone call. and could it actually lead to witness testimony? and in an emergency, they need a network that puts them first. that connects them to technology, to each other, and to other agencies. that's why at&t built firstnet with and for first responders the emergency response network authorized by congress. firstnet. because putting them first is our job. did you know prilosec otc can stop frequent heartburn before it begins? heartburn happens when stomach acid refluxes into the esophagus. prilosec otc uses a unique delayed-release formula that helps it pass through the tough stomach acid. it then works to turn down acid production, blocking heartburn at the source. with just one pill a day, you get 24-hour heartburn protection. prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ wayne's world, wayne's world, party time, excellent. ♪ hey everyone, welcome to wayne's world. party on, wayne. party on, garth. as a local access show, we want everyone to support local restaurants. but, we'd never manipulate you like the way all these other commercials do. sh-yeah, that's really sad. we'd never shamelessly rely on a celebrity cameo. right cardi b? yeah! eat local! (giggles) ♪ local eats, wayne's world, yummy. ♪ why walgreens? because our expert pharmacists know you and your medications. get their advice on your medicare prescriptions and get back to what you'd rather be doing. who's a good boy leo! ♪♪ it is the dawn of a new day. v-day in washington, this morning. verdict day, on capitol hill, in the second impeachment trial of donald trump. and a lot has unraveled in the past few hours. that may impact the proceedings we see today. good day from msnbc world headquarters in new york. at 7:00 a.m., on the east coast. 4:00 a.m., out west. with special coverage of the new twists and turns coming out of washington. we -- we begin day five of donald trump's second impeachment trial with breaking news. new details emerging into what trump was doing, and saying during the january 6th capitol hill riot. overnight, new reporting on what's being described as an expletive-ridden phone call between house-minority leader kevin mccarthy, and former-president trump, while the riot was unfolding. sources telling nbc news that mccarthy called trump, shaken, asking for help. the then-president told mccarthy, well, kevin, i guess, these people are more upset about the election than you are. and at one point during the phone call, mccarthy telling trump, who the expletive do you think you're talking to? it comes, as house managers and trump's defense team are gearing up to make their closing arguments in just a matter of hours from now. but will these new developments, that's the question, will these new developments throw a wrench into what the trump team was hoping would be a quick wrap-up? senator sheldon whitehouse tweeting out, one way to clear this up? suspend trial to depose mccarthy and tuberville and get facts. what did trump know and when did he know it? now, this comes on the heels of a heated, question-and-answer session, yesterday, where, after everything, trump's lawyers, believe it or not, still, refuse to admit that he lost the election. watch. >> are the prosecutors right, when they claim that trump was telling a big lie, or in your judgment, did trump actually win the election? >> the counsel for the former president have two and a half minutes. >> my judgment? who asked that? >> i did. >> my judgment's irrelevant, in this proceeding. it, absolutely, is. what's supposed to happen here is the article of impeachment is supposed to be -- >> the -- the -- the senate will be in order. >> all right. we have a lot of ground to cover, this hour. besides highlights of the testimony, we are going to take a look at the defense's strategy of what-aboutism and who will buy into it, if any? also, a new report about how rioters came within 100 feet of mike pence's nuclear football. plus, senators behind the scenes. one, even laughing during a video montage, yesterday. we have reporters in place, covering all the angles ahead of this historic, fifth day. we begin with nbc's mariana sotomayor, with new details about the expletive-laced phone call between trump and mccarthy. mariana, it's great to have you back with us. so let's -- tell us a little bit more about what we've learned and how might it impact the impeachment trial? >> sure, aman, well, of course, that explosive call. those details coming and developing overnight. we actually heard from congresswoman jamie herrera butler, about what happened on that call. she is saying that there was contention between trump and the minority leader. trump questioning mccarthy's loyalty to him, and to potentially try and overturn the election results. she, calling forth, for other republicans, including the former-vice president to talk now about what trump knew, and when he knew it, as insurrectionists took hold of the capitol on january 6th. that, as you mentioned, the big question now, especially at a time when senators were hoping to wrap up this impeachment trial by this afternoon. all signs, still, point to that happening. but there is an opportunity to bring forth witnesses. and a lot of the questions that we heard from senators, yesterday, including from republican senators, was ask -- was asking that exact question. what did trump knew? when did he know it? and the defense, more or less, skirting around that with their answers. i wanted to take a listen. the first people who actually asked that question were senators lisa murkowski and susan collins. two, who could possibly vote to convict the president. i want you to listen to that question that they submitted, and what the house-impeachment managers had to say. >> exactly, when did the president learn of the breach at the capitol? and what steps did he take to address the violence? please, be as detailed, as possible. >> he knew the severity of the threat, and most importantly, he knew the capitol police were overwhelmingly outnumbered and in a fight for their lives against thousands of insurgents with weapons. we know he knew that. >> so, the defense, again, they, very much, skirting the -- skirting answering that question. trying to pinpoint, and say that the house democrats should have, actually, considered this new evidence. should have, actually, held a trial, in the house, before they actually voted on impeachment. however, again, they could bring forth witnesses, today, if they decide to do that. but as of right now, the schedule remains. today, at 10:00 a.m. is when senators will gavel in, again. and if the day holds, it will likely be this afternoon that we know the results of whether trump is acquitted or convicted. but all signs point to an acquittal right now because there just aren't those 17 republicans needed to convict the former president. aman. >> mariana sotomayor setting us up for a dramatic day five there on capitol hill. joining me now, msnbc contributor, jill winebanks, also, msnbc contributor, joyce vance, a professor at the university of alabama school of law and former-u.s. attorney. joyce, let me begin with you. with the news that we've learned, overnight. certainly, from senator whitehouse. that he wants to hear from kevin mccarthy and senator tommy tuberville about what they -- what conversations they had with the president, during all of this. the fundamental question being, can democrats force mccarthy or senator tuberville to testify with a subpoena? how does that work in an impeachment trial? >> so, it could conceivably get messy, if democrats make an effort to have unwilling witnesses testify. but the important thing to -- to think about here is that there are really three juries for this proceeding. this is the senate jury. there is the american public. but there is, also, history. and it might make sense, even though there's very little political will to expend additional time in this trial. but it may well make sense for the jury of history to ensure that democrats leave no stone unturned, in an effort to disclose the truth about what happened in this setting. this would be time well spent. >> jill, if you can, connect the dots for us here, for a moment. did trump -- did apparently, based on these phone calls, did not do enough to come to the defense of his former vice president or at least try and secure, you know, his -- his safety, if you will. how does that connect to the argument that is being made, by the impeachment managers, that he incited this attack by simply not acting to defend the vice president? >> the incitement is the beginning of the crime. but it is, also, proved, not only by his words on the mall and his words for the months before the election and postelection, before january 6th. but it's proved by what he did after it. and a question that has been asked by senator cassidy, originally, and now by murkowski and collins, and by the american people, is what did the president know? and when did he know it? and one way of proving that is through these phone calls, where we now have some evidence that he was told, by two members of the congress. one senator and one representative. what was going on. how dangerous it was. and his failure to take action. so, if we can pinpoint the timing. and for example, the call from -- that was made to senator lee, now has been changed in the time that lee got it. originally, it was 2:15. now, it's 2:26, which is two minutes after the president, at the time, now-the-former president, actually sent out another tweet that endangered his vice president. his own vice president. and so, it's a very strange set of timing. very convenient that it's now two minutes after that tweet, instead of ten minutes before it. and the only way to know that, and i agree with what joyce said. but i would add that, not just for history but, for the american people now, and even for the jurors, i think that some senators are on the fence about whether to vote for conviction or acquittal. and this is a key question, so why not answer it? i know the importance of their -- having their recess to go back to their districts. i know the importance of getting on with covid relief. and so many other, important, legislative issues. but this is equally important, and they've started it. if it takes an extra few days to do some investigation of this, then they have to do it. >> jill and joyce, stay with me for a second. i have a lot more legal questions for both of you. but i do want to cross over, quickly, to nbc's monica alba. she is in west palm beach, florida. near where former-president trump has been staying, since leaving the white house. let's talk about, monica, let's talk about the president -- the former president, over the past couple of days. what are you hearing about how trump has been reacting to all of these developments? >> well, we know he was very unhappy, earlier in the week, aman. he was not at all pleased with that initial showing from bruce castor and that very meandering speech. he wasn't happy with the style or the substance, i'm told. but yesterday, donald trump did watch the proceedings, and was a lot more happy with how he saw both of the attorneys speaking. and he also, i'm told, was pretty pleased with michael van der veen's performance, who continued to spread misinformation and refused to answer some of the questions posed later in the afternoon. but the former president has been advised not to weigh in, publicly, at all on the proceedings, this week. which is very rare for someone who spent so much time in the spotlight, who wanted to always weigh in. of course, we know part of that is because he's been permanently banned from twitter and other social-media platforms. so he doesn't have a very easy way to weigh in. but he could always release a paper statement. or even call a press conference here, in south florida. he hasn't done any of that, these last four or five days. and i'm told that that is really by design. so will we hear from this after this potentially wraps today? that's a separate question. but talking, yesterday, about what the former president was actually pleased with, really, it's this continued spread of misinformation. and even some baseless claims from his attorneys. take a listen to just a snapshot of some of the most misleading answers that were given, yesterday. >> one of the first people arrested was a leader of antifa. >> when president trump sent the disparaging tweet, at 2:24 p.m., regarding vice president pence, was he aware that vice president had been removed from the senate by the secret service for his safety? >> the answer is no. at no point, was the president informed the vice president was in any danger. >> reporter: so taking those, separately, on the first point of antifa. our own pete williams reports that, in not one single criminal complaint that has been filed against the people who have been arrested and charged is there any mention of antifa or anybody being associated with that group. so, that is not correct. second, on that question about the then-vice president's safety, we know from our own reporting, at the time, that this is something that the white house was absolutely aware of because of the nature of having to evacuate him from the senate chamber. and then, the fact that he sheltered in place within the capitol complex with his family, for hours. and then-president trump never called in to check in on him and it wasn't just that evening after the chaos at the capitol. it was for five days, afterwards. so we know that people close to mike pence were furious at this. and really, this was the breakdown of a relationship that had been defined by loyalty, from pence to trump. so, when you hear the lawyers there talking about how there was no way that the former president could have been aware that his vice president was in danger. we just simply know that that is not the case. and again, we can point to those phone calls and the fact that, even after donald trump knew that mike pence's safety could be at risk, he was still tweeting out attacks, directly at him, as all of that was still happening in the deadly riot was unfolding on capitol hill, aman. >> all right, monica alba, in florida for us. monica, thank you. let's go back now to our contributors, jill winebanks, joyce vance. as we saw clips there, yesterday's defense was largely based in what aboutism. spending much of their time pointing the finger at democrats' actions. playing that montage of democrats and others using the word fight as to, somehow, draw a comparison between what the president said and did. and what democrats have done, in the past. does that kind of defense even work? and -- and did it translate yesterday? >> so, that defense was certainly designed just for the audience of one that, according to monica's reporting, we know was pleased by what he saw yesterday. but -- but the person who is on trial, in this impeachment setting, is donald trump. there is no one else who's on trial. so, pointing to what other people may or may not have done is, largely, irrelevant. to the extent that this is an effort by the defense to say, well, everybody uses this sort of language. everybody uses the word fight. that, too, falls a little bit short. and i -- i'm reminded that jamie raskin, the lead house impeachment manager, told the senators before he closed. he implored them to use their common sense. he -- he quoted thomas paine's famous pamphlet on common sense. and, of course, in a criminal trial, judges always tell juries, you don't have to leave your common sense at the door when you deliberate on the evidence. so, this notion that words that are used, often, just hyperbolically in political settings, in rallies, fight, win. this sort of language doesn't translate to the setting that former-president trump was in on the ellipse, the morning of january 6th, where he had a riled-up crowd in front of him. a crowd, he had been feeding misinformation for months. he had created this january-6th event. there was nothing magical about january 6th, until the former president told his supporters to come to washington that day. that it would be wild. and he, literally, pointed them at the capitol. he gave them the mission of interfering with the senate's -- or with the congressional certification of joe biden's win. he pointed them down the street, to the capitol. and set them loose. so, this notion that there's any comparison, between what trump does that morning, and what happens over time with other politicians, is fallacious and it's -- it's really not particularly candid for the lawyers to suggest this. >> jill, the impeachment managers, this week, have been trying to prove that the capitol rioters took direct orders from president trump. that he, quote, invited them there. to joyce's point about going there on january the 6th. a day that very few americans would have even known about if it weren't for the president. here's a part of their evidence. >> as one man explained on a livestream he taped from inside the capitol, quote, our president wants us here. we wait and take orders from our president. >> does he not realize, president trump called us to siege the place? >> let's call trump, yes! dude. dude. let's tell trump what's up. >> trump would be very upset. >> he'd be like, no, just say we love him. we love you, bro. no, he'll be happy. what do you mean? we're fighting for trump. >> jill, were those videos enough to make that connection, to prove that protestors would not have been there, if it weren't for trump's specific rhetoric? >> those, plus so many others. one of the most dramatic, for me, was the fact that one of the rioters had a bullhorn. and was reading, aloud, the tweet about going home. that means that the president was in direct contact with them. he sent them there. as joyce said, he pointed them to the capitol. he told them to go there, and stop the steal. when the only way that they could intervene was to violence. there were no legal, peaceful means that they could use to have any impact on counting the electoral vote, as the constitution requires a joint session to do. so, the connection between him sending them there, and knowing that he was the only one who could stop them. and that he, in fact, had direct communication with them, is enough evidence for me to show that he not only incited them but that he didn't stop them. he didn't care about his vice president. he didn't care about members of congress. he didn't care about the capitol building. >> all right. jill winebanks, joyce vance, two of the best legal minds. thank you for your time this morning. it is a chilling headline. capitol rioters were yards from mike pence's nuclear football with launch codes. the repercussions from that revelation, next. you can't plan for your period's... what the gush moments. but the right pad can. only always ultra thins have rapiddry technology and, they absorb 40% faster. the gush happens fast. that's why always absorbs faster. welcome to the next, next level. this phone paired with 5g ultra wideband, wow! the new samsung galaxy s21 is here and it's on verizon 5g ultra wideband, the fastest 5g in the world. available in parts of many cities. it's not just a great network. it's ridiculously fast. stream your favorite shows in ultra hd. i'm so excited about this, streaming is crystal-clear. select unlimited plans get the disney bundle and 5g included at no extra cost. yes! buy samsung galaxy s21+ 5g, get one on us. only on verizon. stressballs gummies, with herbal ashwaganda help turn the stressed life into your best life stress less, live more with stressballs introducing voltaren arthritis pain gel. the first full prescription strength non-steroidal anti-inflammatory gel... available over the counter. voltaren is powerful arthritis pain relief in a gel. voltaren. the joy of movement. you're clearly someone who takes care of yourself. so why wait to screen for colon cancer? because when caught in early stages, it's more treatable. i'm cologuard. i'm noninvasive and detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers even in early stages. tell me more. it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your prescriber or an online prescriber if cologuard is right for you. i'll get on it! that's a step in the right direction. ♪ don't you tell me ♪ ♪ that i'm crazy... ♪ ♪ don't you say that i'm losing my mind. ♪ ♪ i'm in love... ♪ ♪ love, love. ♪ celebrate your love with a gift from pandora jewelry and discover all the ways to shop. when you've got a business, you don't want to worry cel about slow internet or gi confusing cybersecurity. so get comcast business internet with fast, reliable speeds, and add the advanced security of comcast business securityedge. it combines the speed you need with threat protection. plus there's 24/7 support. it's internet and advanced security - made simple. so bounce forward - with comcast business. get started with a powerful internet and voice solution for just $64.90 a month. and ask how to add comcast business securityedge. call today. day five of impeachment trial, number two, for donald trump. this is a live look on capitol hill. this calm scene, just days after house managers played some of the most disturbing video we have seen of the january 6th angry mob that stormed the capitol. take a look. >> get the [ bleep ] out of here. >> >> video of police officers on capitol hill coming under verbal and physical attack from those rioters. and there are three other big headlines this morning, about accused insurrectionists. federal prosecutors say thomas caldwell, a former navy intelligence officer and fbi official, explored using boats to ferry weapons across the potomac river for the capitol attack. and even had a death list of officials. prosecutors say, jessica watkins, one of caldwell's alleged co-conspirators, also, a military veteran, said she waited on donald trump's direction to go the capitol on january the 6th. and new questions about whether the nuclear football was at risk when rioters got within 100 feet of former vice president mike pence. joining me now, nbc news terrorism analyst and contributor. he is also author of "the plot to betray america, how team trump embraced our enemies, compromised our security, and how we can fix it" also with us, former assistant secretary at the department of homeland security. two of the best experts on this subject matter. malcolm, let's begin with you. the video of mike pence being shuffled out of the senate chamber. you see the military officer there, hurrying behind him just a few feet away with the nuclear football. what is going through your mind, as a security expert, watching that moment? >> you know, i was quite shocked, when i saw that he had the football was -- was present. i knew -- you know, you know it has to be near him. he is the ultimate-command authority. he is the ultimate commander in chief, if president trump had been incapacitated, then he would have to have that authority to carry out an atomic attack, if it came down to that. however, that is just protocol. in this particular instance, as he was being moved by the secret service. there was really no threat, other than the fact that these rioters could have gotten to them. and the real -- the -- the thing that i think we should all be thanking god about is that they did not run into them, en masse. you would have had, quite honestly, a slaughter. the secret service has protocols. if they feel that the vice president of the united states is in imminent threat for immediate death or incapacitation, they will use their automatic weapons and handguns to defended vice president of the united states. and anyone that's with him. like, his family or the nuclear football. >> elizabeth, from your time in the trump administration, do you think mike pence was surprised by the vitriol that was directed at him? how do you think he has processed the way the former president a mob on him? >> you know, it -- it's interesting. he was in that bubble, for so long, that i -- i'm sure there was a bit of cognitive dissonance, to realize that the -- the -- the very people that, in the months previous, especially during the campaign, were in adoration of him. and praising him. had, so quickly, turned on him. and maybe, even more painful, to realize that trump, himself, had -- had turned on him. and, you know, i -- look. mike pence sacrificed a lot of integrity, to serve as vice president. i know, firsthand, that he fought for very, many righteous causes on the inside. and i'm sure he justified his role because of his willingness to try to persuade trump to go in the right direction on a number of policies. sometimes, he won. a lot of times, he lost those fights. and he never once came out and complained about it. he was not the leakers that -- that so many others were. and at the very end, to have the person that you -- you tried to support, so loyally, for four years turn on you. it must be extremely painful, and hopefully, causing some soul searching about how he missed some big-character deficiencies in the president, and didn't foresee this coming. >> yeah, and he has certainly been loyal to him throughout all of this. and it seems at least for now. malcolm, you're not surprised that military veterans are charged with conspiracy in all of this. but i want you to talk to us about the significance of this new information that they explored. picking up arms and that several militia groups and hate groups have joined forces to make this attack happen. >> well, quite honestly, i'm -- i'm -- i'm not surprised. what i'm -- i'm most surprised is at the level of ineptness of -- of these people. they were, literally, a gaggle for the oath keepers who were forming these disparate, three, five, and ten-person cells, which is what they were. trying to organize military people, from various backgrounds, including thomas caldwell, who is a former-navy lieutenant commander. they were coming up with insane plans. they had actually tried to bring a boat to land over at the pentagon lagoon, which is right in front of the pentagon, and bring armed men over to the capitol as a quick-reaction force. you know, i'm -- i'm not the greatest shooter in the world but i know incompetence and craziness when i see it. and they would have to run, like, 15 blocks to the capitol, into the teeth of the washington, d.c. police. these people live a fantasy life and that is where they are most dangerous. like isis and al qaeda, as these want-to-be terrorists have these images in their head of where they are going to rescue the world, by use of force. fortunately, for them, they did not try that. they got away with it by using mass-people power by desecrating the capitol. but if they had gone to guns, then this story would have ended tragically and quickly. >> elizabeth, there is a new poll that shows a significant percentage of each political group agreeing that force may be required to save the traditional, american way of life. that thought is got to be disturbing. did you see signs of this, during the trump presidency? and is it too late to try and -- and reprogram this mentality, that we need force in order to preserve this american way of life? >> i mean, look. this is extremely concerning. this is why we're in the middle of a heightened-threat environment. this is why this isn't going away, even after, you know, a decision on impeachment. we -- we have a problem with violence in this country. we have a huge polarization problem in this country. you are talking millions. those polls indicate millions of people in this country think violence is justified. now, there are a couple of reasons for that. half of the country has been lied to, by their leader, donald trump. we could, very quickly, reduce the pool of people that think that violence is called for, if we would just tell them the truth. but it doesn't do any good for me to say it or malcolm to say it or for msnbc to say it. it has to come from within that community. and we know donald trump's not going to do it. so it's got to be leaders, in the republican party, to come to say the truth. the election wasn't stolen. joe biden is the legitimate president. that helps shrink the pool, so that we can start to get a handle on others. that -- that are still holding to that belief that violence is justified. it is -- it is a very dangerous environment. but can i, also, point out, this is beyond a security problem. this is a civil-society problem. this was, certainly, helped by ten, maybe 20, years of politics that has gotten too hyperbolic in our language. and we always think everything is an existential crisis. we have got to lower the temperature. donald trump. that grievance. he amplified it. but he was reflecting a culture that had already gone there. so, everybody has responsibility here to tone down the rhetoric, and start going back to basics. like, loving our neighbor, and just because you disagree with someone doesn't make them an enemy. >> i was going to say, i spent years covering the extremism overseas and i see a lot of the similar tendencies that i reported on overseas taking root here, in america. elizabeth newman, malcolm nance, we could spend hours talking about this. incredibly fascinating. thanks to both of you for your perspectives this morning. new details on the phone calls that we were talking about there that has capitol hill abuzz, this morning, if you will. plus, the senators to watch, when the voting starts today. research shows that people remember commercials with exciting stunts. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's something you shouldn't try at home. insurance is cool. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ today is the fifth, and possibly final, day of the second impeachment of -- second impeachment trial of former-president donald trump. 17 republicans would need to vote with all 50 democrats to convict the former president. nbc news correspondent, garrett haake, in washington with more for us. garrett, walk us through what we can expect to see play out, today. in light of what we've seen from senator sheldon whitehouse's call to now call witnesses. >> well, i still think the likelihood of witnesses being called here is low. and here's why. i mean, sheldon whitehouse is a vote to convict. and what we haven't seen are republicans who are either on the fence, or who are leaning towards acquittal. saying that more information would make a difference. right? the majority of republicans who have told us they want to acquit say they want to do so, on constitutional grounds. so, additional evidence here, even if it's -- if it's about this fiery, you know, borderline-infuriating conversation between kevin mccarthy and president trump, on the day of the riot, probably, doesn't move the bar all that much on conviction. that said, of the half-a-dozen or so republican senators, who i am keeping an eye on as -- as possible or perhaps likely votes for conviction. what the president did during the riot, itself, is a big part of the reason why. if you are susan collins or lisa murkowski or -- or bill cassidy of louisiana. they all asked questions pertaining to the president's inaction during the course of the riot. and just like when the house voted on impeachment, several house republicans said their vote to impeach president trump was based on his inaction. they said his dereliction of duty. so, the nonanswer from the president's defense lawyers, yesterday, on that question, could be relevant. don't be surprised to see the house managers focus some of their closing arguments, today, on exactly that question. they will say, not only did the former president incite this riot, he failed to protect you, once it started. so it's kind of a two-pronged approach from the managers, as they try to, if they can't convict, at least get a significant, bipartisan vote for conviction at the end of the day, today. >> all right. garrett haake, live, for us in washington, d.c. garrett, thank you, my friend. joining me now is new york congressman, gregory meeks, a democratic member of the house financial services and foreign affairs committees. congressman, greatly appreciate your time. let's begin with this new reporting, on that phone call between house-minority leader, kevin mccarthy, and donald trump during the january-6th riot. your reaction to those details? what do you make of their exchange? >> well, it tells you, you know, in the legal business, what the president's mens rea was, what's his thought process? where he was. and it shows, clearly, that the individuals that he were the commander in chief of, were following out his orders. he thought those were the patriots, not the police officers trying to defend the capitol, not the folks, members of congress and the senators that were in there, that -- that -- that were going to confirm joe biden as president. he thought the patriots, the ones that he loved, was those that were -- that were attacking the capitol. those, that were trying to overturn a fair-and-free election. those were his people. and that statement, the phone call, is clearly further fact of that. and you compare the phone call, you know, just -- just looking and connecting the dots -- that he had with mccarthy, it is very consistent with his remarks when he came out and told those same individuals. those insurrectionists. that we love you. you know, basically, was saying, at that time, hey, look. y'all -- y'all are patriots. and he made the exact statement that he made. talking about -- and i think that all of the managers brought this out, very clearly, that the statement that he made. that -- that this election was stolen. but, you know, this is what happens. but now, we can go home. i mean, it -- it -- it's clear. you have the dots all connected, right there, of this president's mens rea and that -- that he was the one that was the leader of this insurrection. >> congressman, i know you have a lot on your plate. i am just curious, how much are you actually watching of the trial, in real time? do you feel the house managers have done an effective job making their case? >> look. i -- i am so proud of congressman raskin, and the whole team. joe neguse. ted lieu, joaquin castro, eric swalwell. they were fantastic. and guess what? also, look at the great, you know, look at that -- it -- it also reflects america. each and every one of them. and -- and it shows who we are and i think that history, the camera of history, is recording the job that they've done. and that is something that will last for a lifetime. and i am now the chair of the house foreign affairs committee. and so, that's the example of which i will be going against because i know, already, some of our adversaries. some of the authoritarians of the world sides with trump because that's what they do. trump act just like they did. but i can now show the work of these managers and how they stood up for democracy. and guess what? that's what's at stake here, today. on this vote. with those senators. if you don't get the 17 republican senators, then, you know, those who vote for this. they are the ones that are against democracy. and has put our democracy in -- in trouble. because it makes my job harder to talk to some of our adversaries to say this is what you should not do. and if they just shrug their shoulders at it, then it makes it difficult for me to argue. what i have to use is the comparison of al gore, in 2000, and how he told the folks, in a very close election. the courts made a decision. we love the country. we got to move on. let's -- let's put down, go home, don't do anything. and let's make sure we preserve our democracy. that's the comparison, i think, that you can look at. look at al gore in 2000, after a -- truly, a very close election. and this election, which wasn't close, and what donald trump said and did to manipulate -- manipulating people. and that's what he does all his career, he is a manipulator. and the republicans know it. he's a con man. >> history is often the best lesson. congressman gregory meeks, sir, thank you so much for your time. greatly appreciate it, sir. who is taking the impeachment trial seriously? and who isn't? what the cameras don't show, and what kind of message it is sending. next. next honey honey? new nyquil severe honey is maximum strength cold and flu medicine with soothing honey-licious taste. nyquil honey. the nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, stuffy head, fever best sleep with a cold medicine. introducing a revolution in the world of pain relief: new advil dual action. advil targets pain at the source. acetaminophen blocks pain signals. new advil dual action with acetaminophen. ♪ ♪ the chevy silverado trail boss. when you have a two-inch lift. when you have goodyear duratrac tires. when you have rancho shocks and an integrated dual exhaust. when you have all that, the last thing you'll need... is a road. the chevy silverado trail boss. ready to off-road, right from the factory. at t-mobile, we have a plan built just for customers 55 and up. saving 50% vs. other carriers with 2 unlimited lines for less than $30 each. call 1-800-t-mobile or go to t-mobile.com/55. good morning, mr. sun. good morning, blair. [ chuckles ] whoo. i'm gonna grow big and strong. yes, you are. i'm gonna get this place all clean. i'll give you a hand. and i'm gonna put lisa on crutches! wait, what? said she's gonna need crutches. she fell pretty hard. you might want to clean that up, girl. excuse us. when owning a small business gets real, progressive helps protect what you built with customizable coverage. -and i'm gonna -- -eh, eh, eh. -donny, no. -oh. so, this week, as we watched house impeachment managers and trump's defense team lay out their case, reporters who were in the room gave us a behind-the-scenes look at how the senators reacted to those arguments. and the contrast is quite stark. yesterday, for example, democrats reacting to the 11-minute video montage from the defense. showing many of them using the word, fight, with a mix of dismissal and mockery. while, during the house managers' presentation, several republicans were criticized for paying half-hearted attention. rand paul was spotted tracing the watermark of the capitol on a legal pad. while tim scott appeared to read a magazine. and cindy smith gazed at a 2021 calendar. rick scott was studying a map of southeast asia. joining me now, former aide in the george w. bush white house and msnbc political analyst. so, body language tells us a lot. unfortunately, we weren't able to point our cameras at them but i wanted to get your thoughts on this. a lot of senators were reportedly laughing at the video montage the defense played. what do you read into all of this colorful detail about how the senators have been reacting to the evidence being presented? >> seem like, the senators, yesterday, on display, were exactly like the partisan divide of our country, right now. you had democrats, who were making fun of republicans. you had republicans, who didn't even want to hear what the argument was. and did not want to relive the trauma of having their workplace invaded by insurrectionists, who were chanting to hang the vice president of their own party. so it, really, is not that surprising. you see this lack of seriousness, all across the board, with congress. and the way that they govern, and the way that they never read the bills that they want bills to be passed. after, virtually, no input from senators. it's -- it's really sad, and it's just -- it shows the state of the country right now. and why americans are disgusted with their government. >> there -- the other aspect to this, elise, was what we saw mitch mcconnell do. which was, you know, in the beginning of all of this, early, early on, right after january 6th when impeachment was coming into focus. he wanted to delay this, till post-inauguration. that's exactly what happened. and yet, he then voted to say that this process was unconstitutional because trump was no longer president. what do you make of that? that the argument, that more and more republicans, like mitch mcconnell, are trying to argue this, on a constitutional basis, that they just don't want to deal with it? >> well, it's the only out that they have to avoid dealing with the hard truth. that the president of their party incited a riot of his supporters to try to thwart the democratic results of a free-and-fair election and that's the sad truth of it. so, they can use this silly excuse. plenty of conservative lawyers, true heavyweights, have shut down essentially and they want to just let donald trump get away with this. the problem is that it will happen, again, in some way, shape, or form, if this behavior is tolerated and not punished. >> you know, the republican party, certainly, better than i do. do you think that there may be an attempt at what mitch mcconnell has suggested, that this would be a vote of conscience among members of his caucus? that it will come down to people willing to vote their conscience? or do you anticipate there being a very strict loyalty vote to the president and the republican party of trump? >> given that, you know, kevin mccarthy had protestors breaking down windows to invade his office. and donald trump to call in support to help save them from the violent mob. and then, he is down at mar-a-lago, yucking it up and toasting, i think that is probably the mentality we are going to see when the final votes come in, today. i would be shocked if more than ten republican senators vote to convict trump. if it even gets to seven, i would be pleasantly surprised. >> let's -- let's look at -- >> i'm not, exactly, optimistic that republicans in the senate are going to hold donald trump to account. >> yeah. apologies for -- for stepping on you there, at the end, because i actually wanted to pick up on your point looking at the republican party, going forward. nikki haley is speaking out against trump. she told "politico's" tim alberta she believes trump is not going to run for president again. saying quote we need to acknowledge he let us down, he went down a path he shouldn't have and we shouldn't have followed him and we shouldn't have listened to him. and we can't ever let that happen again. quickly, your thoughts to these. what do you make of the comments, too little, too late given that she served and advanced this president's ideology and agenda and his mannerisms? >> i think anyone that wants to disavow what trump did at any point should be welcomed into the fold, admit your wrongdoing and that you were wrong following him. let's go forward and forge a better path. however, it is delusional to think donald trump is not going to try to run again in 2024 and that he is not going to be the defining force going forward. this is a gamble on her part, gambled that i would like to see more republicans make. i wonder how it is going to politically work out for her. if anything, nikki haley -- >> elise jordan, thank you my friend. critics call president trump's efforts to overturn the election criminal. prosecutors in georgia are trying to prove it. that's next. trying to prove it that's next. for decades, most bladder leak pads were similar. until always discreet changed that. by inventing a pad you never thought possible. it's incredibly thin. because it protects differently. with two rapiddry layers that overlap, where you need it most. for strong protection, that's always discreet. it's time to question your protection. it's time for always discreet. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ introducing fidelity income planning. we look at how much you've saved, how much you'll need, and build a straightforward plan to generate income, even when you're not working. a plan that gives you the chance to grow your savings and create cash flow that lasts. along the way, we'll give you ways to be tax efficient. and you can start, stop or adjust your plan at any time without the unnecessary fees. talk to us today, so we can help you go from saving...to living. talk to us today, (sam) gamers! verizon 5g ultra wideband is here, with ultra... low... lag! so start becoming the best gamers in the ga-- (avatars) oohh! (sam) 5g ultra wideband, now in parts of many cities. this is 5g built right. once the impeachment trial wraps up, donald trump has new legal problems to confront. prosecutors in georgia announcing a criminal investigation into a phone call where the former president asked the georgia secretary brad raffensperger to find votes to overturn election results there. meantime, "the washington post" and "new york times" reporting a prosecutor planning to examine a post election day phone call. joining me, cory kauffman at the state's capital. bring us up to date on speed and investigation into the former president. where does it stand this morning? >> reporter: good morning to you. this is the second investigation regarding the call launched in the state of georgia, the latest investigation launched by fulton county district attorney's office. the first was by secretary of state raffensperger's office. to remind folks, this call was january 2nd between the president and raffensperger in which the president asked him to find some 11,780 votes. exactly one more than biden won in fulton county. holding the county, he then held the state of georgia. in her letter, the district attorney asked state government officials to hold onto information regarding that phone call, any documents that they had, citing a criminal investigation launched by her office, and according to "new york times" it doesn't stop there. there's additional elements here that the office will be investigating, that includes the november call between lindsey graham and raffensperger regarding mail in ballots, and includes ousting of u.s. attorney for northern district of georgia who refused to go along with trump's claims of fraudulent abuse in the state of georgia and also fraudulent claims by rudy giuliani before state legislative committees. willis spoke to rachel maddow and listen to what she had to tell her. >> what i know about investigations, they're like peeling back an onion. as you go through each layer, you learn different things. to be a responsible prosecutor, you must look at all those things and investigation to be fair to everyone involved. this is a very important matter as you already highlighted, so yes, the investigation seems it will go past one phone call we discussed. >> reporter: information she echoed to "new york times." in addition to all elements being investigated in the state of georgia, president trump's january 2nd phone call and additional actions he took to overturn results in georgia are all being used as evidence in donald trump's second impeachment trial. last week and this week. >> thank you. that will do it for me this hour. stephanie ruhle is next at the top of the hour with more of msnbc's special coverage of the second impeachment trial of donald trump. don't go anywhere. of donald trump don't go anywhere. my husband and i have never eaten healthier. shingles doesn't care. i logged 10,000 steps today. shingles doesn't care. i get as much fresh air as possible. good for you, but shingles doesn't care. because 1 in 3 people will get shingles, you need protection. but no matter how healthy you feel your immune system declines as you age, increasing your risk for getting shingles. so what can protect you? shingrix protects. for the first time ever, you can protect yourself from shingles with a vaccine proven to be over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. talk to your pharmacist or doctor about protecting yourself with shingrix. shingles doesn't care. but you should. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ about protecting yourself with shingrix. hey limu! [ squawks ] how great is it that we get to tell everybody how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need? i mean it... oh, sorry... [ laughter ] woops! [ laughter ] good evening! meow! nope. oh... what? i'm an emu! ah ha ha. no, buddy! buddy, it's a filter! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ good morning. i am stephanie ruhle. welcome to coverage of the second impeachment trial of donald j. trump on msnbc. in two hours, the senate will gavel back in for what could be the final day of the trial. so what's left on the agenda? this morning, house impeachment managers could make a last minute request for witnesses. if they don't, they move into closing arguments, each side getting up to two hours to make the case. by the end of today we could see a final vote on whether or not to convict former president trump for inciting the january 6th attack on capitol hill. overnight, we got new details about what president trump was doing as a mob of his ardent supporters violently stormed capitol hill. details that could delay the trial, change how the next few hours or next few days in history play out. three sources telling nbc news republican minority leader kevin mccarthy and president trump got into an expletive, that means curse word argument on the phone as the attack was unfolding. two republican lawmakers revealing at one point the president said, quote, well, kevin, i guess these people are more upset about the election than you are. the news prompted at least one senator to call for house managers to delay the trial in order to depose witnesses, including leader mccarthy and senator tommy tubberville. we are watching to see if other senators join in on the call. it comes after a day when we saw the president's defense team rely heavily on language from democrats to argue that trump's speech january 6th was ordinary political rhetoric and not at all a call for violence. when pushed by senator susan collins, lisa murkowski about when the president knew about the capitol breach and what he did to stop it, trump's defense lawyers didn't have an answer. instead arguing the former president didn't get due processor proper investigation. garrett haake is still on capitol hill, he has been there for days. and phil rucker, senior washington correspondent for "the washington post." garrett, what exactly do we know about the call between president trump and kevin mccarthy? >> well, we know it took place during the attack on the capitol. both men were furious, kevin mccarthy screaming expletives, demanding the president do more to stop the attack on congress. the president throwing things back at mccarthy, suggesting that mccarthy wasn't as angry as he should be about election results, sort of defiant in tone. the reality is this is fascinating call, speaks to one of the most troubling aspects of the attack, one of the things they're most disturbed by, the president's lack of action to protect them or his own vice president during the attack, but i'm not convinced it is the kind of thing that will throw a wrench in the trial in terms of forcing the call for witnesses. managers tried to make a tight, succinct case, and simply stopping the trial to depose witnesses, make no mistake, kevin mccarthy would be a hostile witness if called by managers. i still think it is unlikely at this point, but we're going to see how the day plays out. trials have been tough to predict in the past, i don't see this being different now. >> what happens if the house managers decide to call witnesses? what's the timing? does kevin mccarthy have to show up today? >> no. they would have to force a vote. you would have to have a vote on calling witnesses. witnesses have to be subpoenaed, presumably deposed in advance of appearing before the senate. this could delay the trial substantially if this is the road the managers decide to go down. >> walk us through this. kevin mccarthy had a conversation with president trump but he, himself, is he publicly stating that or are people he told about it? does that make sense? >> yes. as of now it seems as though the vast majority of the details we're getting from the call is from representatives or people that were familiar with kevin mccarthy who told at the time. i remember january 6th a source telling me, i know other outlets reported it too, there had been a call between kevin mccarthy and the president. i was told by a source the day of the attack that kevin mccarthy was urging the president to put out a tweet saying he needed to do more to condemn these people. we are now hearing from representatives on the record, saying that kevin mccarthy was saying you need, was cursing at him. the president's response is the thing, we know in local oulets said kevin mccarthy, these people are more angry about the election than you, they're a window into the president's mind. he was more worried whose side kevin mccarthy was on and the mob storming the capitol, why they were backing him still. in some ways, my reporting was he was a little reveling in the idea there were thousands of people willing to break into the u.s. capitol in the name of the lie he told that he won the election and that it was stolen from him. the big question is, is kevin mccarthy going to say yes, the call happened, here's what happened. from what we understand as garrett said, he would likely be a hostile witness. he was down at mar-a-lago, reporting was he was trying to get a donor list from president trump. it seems as though kevin mccarthy is thinking about his own political future now and not wanting to cross the president. maybe that changes today. >> here's what i don't get. the people who have come out publicly and said this is the conversation that happened between mccarthy and trump are two republican congress people that mccarthy spoke with. what has kevin mccarthy said publicly about the call? there's no reason he wouldn't disclose it. >> well, that's the big question. why are we not hearing from kevin mccarthy now, why are we not hearing more details about how he felt, what he thought about in that moment. it's the big question here in washington and around the nation. people want to know what the house minority leader was saying to the president. i think in some ways you can see a window into the fact that kevin mccarthy while they were breaking into his office was saying the only person that can basically stop this is president trump. that tells you the level of power that kevin mccarthy thought president trump had at the time. so i think it is a big question about what kevin mccarthy is going to say about this. from my understanding, he hasn't said much about it. i'm interested to hear. he is obviously talking to colleagues about it, but publicly, how will he respond. there's no forum to ask him questions directly. we know next time he is on the hill, people like garrett and myself will be chasing him down the hallway saying what happened on that phone call. >> didn't end up being the president that called for more support, it was pat cippolone. his rhetoric had nothing to do with the attack, so why is it that immediately following the attack up there on the screen did we see countless white house staff, administration officials, resign and say enough is enough, even though i have less than two weeks left on the job, i can no longer stand with this president. why would they have done that if the president's rhetoric meant nothing? >> well, steph, the argument from the president's lawyers doesn't comport with the facts as we know it. a number of the insurrectionists at the capitol said they were motivated to be there because of the president and by the president's rhetoric and they believed the election was rigged and stolen because the president told them so over the course of the weeks and months leading up to january 6th. this disclosure, the details of the phone call with kevin mccarthy goes to the heart of the argument the democratic house impeachment managers tried to make, that the president, commander in chief was derelict in duty when he saw the capitol under siege, saw his vice president was in harm's way, when people were coming violently armed to go after members of congress. he didn't act. he was focused on the election. >> phil, when the house impeachment managers laid out that timeline, walked through the phone call, where mike pence was, the call with tommy tubberville, we expected the defense would counter with a different timeline. they avoided that line of questioning entirely. but you got reporting where you described what was going down in the white house, six hours of paralysis, rather than springing into action to respond to the attack. tell us about it. >> steph, this is the period between when the capitol first came under siege and when the president came out into the rose garden with that recorded video and told them to go home, although he also did tell them that he loved them. this is a period when the president refused to act. he at first liked what he was seeing according to reporting, he thought they were fighting for him. they were obviously waving his flag. it took a number of phone calls and pleas from people like kevin mccarthy but also ivanka trump, jared kushner, various senators, others in the white house, a lawyer, pat cippolone, white house counsel, trying to get the president to do the right thing to call off the mob, to tell supporters to go home, and he would not do so until the end of the day, and that is one of the arguments of the house democratic impeachment managers are trying to make, that this president did not act when the nation's democracy was under attack. >> trying to get the president to do the right thing of course after many of the president's closest allies and family members had been at the rally celebrating with the rioters. ivanka trump welcoming them as patriots. patriots who murdered a capitol police officer. thank you all so much. garrett, you can have a quick break, but please don't go far. any breaking news, we're coming back. we're covering this all day on msnbc. thank you. and no matter the outcome of the impeachment trial, in the political courtroom of the senate former president trump is still facing potential legal troubles in his post presidency life. joining us, boston globe writer kimberly atkins, former trial and appellate attorney. and nbc contributor, co-host of podcast sisters in law, and former federal prosecutor glenn kirschner, nbc news legal analyst. glenn, the possibility of trump being arrested, having legal troubles for what happened january 6th, how real is that? >> i think it is real if the department of justice gets a confirmed attorney general in merrick garland and do a deep dive into the culpability for what went on january 6th. here's the thing, steph, we're in the middle of an impeachment trial. the only thing we are discussing is whether donald trump incited an insurrection but in a real sense this is a murder trial because donald trump, he set that angry mob on the capitol, told them to do one thing, fight, stop the steal and fight. those words, the natural and probable consequences of those words, call me silly, was that the mob would go down there and fight to stop the steal. of course there was no steal, which means he launched the attack from a platform. here's the thing, it is a murder trial. brian sicknick was killed by the angry mob. in a court of law, there's a thing called felony murder rule. i contend donald trump committed the felony of inciting an insurrection and the legal consequences that flow from that is donald trump would be held criminally liable for any crimes that resulted like the murder of brian sicknick. so i could see a grand jury look at the evidence and hold donald trump or indicting donald trump not only for the insurrection but all crimes that flowed therefrom like the murder of brian sicknick. >> kimberly, it was the president's own attorney that brought up the possibility of president trump being arrested. watch this. >> after he's out of office, you go and arrest him. so there is no opportunity the president of the united states can run rampant in january, end of his term and go away scott free. department of justice does know what to do. >> what do you make of that, kimberly? >> well, first of all, there are separate proceedings. impeachment is different from a criminal proceeding, is different from a civil proceeding. they all have different purposes. the purpose is for those 100 senators sitting as jurors in impeachment is to protect democracy. it is to protect the constitution and to hold a president accountable if he does not live up to his oath to protect and serve under the constitution. it has nothing to do with criminal law. so it is seems a bad way to convince senators there's another avenue that can be pursued and say to them that they don't have to convict here, there's another way to hold him accountable. senator marco rubio made a similar nonsensical claim. but it is true that he does face potential criminal liability just as glenn was laying out as an attorney. i don't think i would ever if i had a client say my client may be a criminal but you shouldn't convict him in this outlet, it shows bad lawyering among other things, but there are a lot of things that await donald trump, including not just federal charges but district attorney in atlanta is looking into charges for his role in trying to influence the election system there with his call to attorney general raffensperger and others. donald trump is in a lot of potential trouble but the impeachment is separate. the impeachment is about constitutional duty and about protecting our government. >> glenn, we knew we were going to see it and did, a lot of what aboutism yesterday. the defense team says former president trump did not specifically incite violence from his followers. we saw the same thing out of democrats. that was their argument. i want you to look on the screen. we could have had dozens and dozens more, we couldn't fit them. you have tweet after tweet with president trump hyping up january 6th, getting people mega fired up. what do you think? >> steph, violence wasn't just predictable. violence inevitable. i would argue violence was donald trump's goal. i mean, i watched with amusement when they played that cobbled together series of clips with democrats saying fight, fight, fight. but steph, as congressman raskin said, does mr. vanderveen think we're foolish? if someone is in a campaign rally saying i am going to fight for your rights, for $15 living minimum wage for you and your family, to take the word fight in isolation and juxtapose it against donald trump who was telling his supporters wearing body armor, helmets, some carrying makeshift weapons, people in the building up the street stole something from you, go down there and fight. those two things are like night and day and i don't think the what aboutism was persuasive. >> here's what i don't get. i am glad you're here, you're the experts, i am the viewer. going back to the trial. three members of the jury, republican senators, ted cruz, mike lee, lindsey graham, repeatedly met with trump's defense team during the trial. you saw them go back. ted cruz, one point you see a picture of him in front of a laptop. i don't know if he was coming up with questions. it was amazing. clearly they're working on some sort of strategy with trump's defense team. kimberly, how is that legal? >> well, in a courtroom that would not be, that would probably be subject of sanction or contempt if that were to happen. this is an impeachment trial which is a different sort of proceeding, it is a political exercise largely. meant to hold a president accountable for whether or not he lives up to his constitutional oath. there isn't necessarily a rule banning this completely, but it tells volumes about the politics of this. it tells you that republicans led by there group are looking for any way, any way to try to give other republicans cover to vote to acquit the president and not hold him accountable for his actions leading up to that insurrection. so this is precisely why we have all been reporting that it is very likely he will get acquitted of this. >> at least those three republican senators, there's a very good chance they will vote to acquit. glenn, kimberly, thank you so much. two of you, don't go far away. i'm sure we'll have more questions as the day unfolds. coming up, much more as the senate trial gets ready to gavel back in this morning. next, we look at the role far right extremists played in the january 6th capitol riot, how did they organize it, preparations they took. how many were reportedly awaiting direct orders from former president donald trump. special coverage continues. do not go anywhere. we have a lot to cover this historic day. a lot to cover thi historic day night and day... ...and delegating to an experienced live bookkeeper for peace of mind. your books are all set. so you can finally give john some attention. trusted experts. guaranteed accurate books. intuit quickbooks live. still fresh unstopables in-wash scent booster downy unstopables ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (quiet piano music) ♪ ♪ comfort in the extreme. the lincoln family of luxury suvs. when heartburn takes you by surprise. fight back fast, with new tums naturals. free from artificial flavors and dyes. is that net carbs or total?... eh, not enough fiber... chocolate would be good... snacking should be sweet and simple. the delicious taste of glucerna gives you the sweetness you crave while helping you manage your blood sugar. with nutrients to help support immune health. when you switch to xfinity mobile, you're choosing to get connected with nutrients to help to the most reliable network nationwide, now with 5g included. discover how to save up to $300 a year with shared data starting at $15 a month, or get the lowest price for one line of unlimited. come into your local xfinity store to make the most of your mobile experience. you can shop the latest phones, bring your own device, or trade in for extra savings. stop in or book an appointment to shop safely with peace of mind at your local xfinity store. the impeachment trial of former president trump is set to resume in just under two hours from now. today, we are set to hear closing arguments from both sides and final senate vote could come later this afternoon. as part of the prosecution, house managers argue that the former president spent months priming the extremists in his base for the violence we saw january 6th. >> this pro-trump insurrection did not spring into life out of thin air. we saw how trump spent months cultivating america's most dangerous extremist groups. we saw how he riled them up with corrosive lies, violent rhetoric, so much so they were ready and eager for the most dangerous mission in validating the will of the people to keep donald trump in office. >> don't believe him? on thursday, federal prosecutors said one of the people charged in the capitol riot indicated she was, quote, awaiting directions from president trump. prosecutors also argued that the extremist group known as oath keepers was plotting before the capitol riot, awaiting further direction from trump. a trail of oath keepers talked about bringing, quote, heavy weapons into washington, even before election day in preparation for urban warfare. joining me to discuss, senior investigative producer anna schecter. can you tell us why we saw so many people with military backgrounds, veterans, who previously fought to defend the country storming the capitol january 6th? >> steph, that's a great question. if you look at the most serious charges of conspiracy and assault, a lot of people do have military backgrounds and historically far right extremist groups want to recruit those people. clearly they were successful in months leading up to january 6th. online there was an urgent feeling and momentum with qanon conspiracies married to stop the steal and even christian nationalism that permeated that on january 6th. i talked to so many people there that felt like it was their religious duty. you had a lot of people brought into the far right, even in the last year they were isolated in their homes, online, and ripe for radicalization. >> the focus on mike pence, why? when rioters were inside the capitol, the president continued to tweet about pence saying he lacked courage to do the right thing when mike pence didn't even have the ability to change any outcome. >> so if you go online into even on facebook, just in some chat rooms where this organization was taking place, there's a lot of talk about this plan that trust the plan, that donald trump is communicating in subtle ways, that there are markers like even like his hand motions or a wink and there's an underground plan that's going to come to fruition leading up to january 6th they thought donald trump is actually going to be the president and there's a whole big conspiracy. now, mike pence was supposed to not validate those electoral votes, and when he actually went to congress to do so, he was not following the plan, so people, it is unbelievable to have seen a -- look at the prosecutors that laid it out, included it in the prosecution, in their arguments they laid out about. take a listen. >> the defense argued in their briefs and argued here on tuesday that the insurrectionists were acting on their own, that they were not incited by president trump or acting in his direction. but that's just not the case. it is not what the insurrectionists actually said. they said they came here because the president instructed them to do so. >> so they were waiting for him, they were waiting for subtle queues. even members of oath keepers, a militia group, they had clearly bought into the qanon conspiracy, the stop the steal, all kind of meshed together with this militant anti-government fervor and they got weapons together and they showed up. it is just astonishing. i have been looking at this for 15 years, you used to see this kind of rhetoric in storm front. now it is just out in the open. it resulted in a siege on the capitol. >> that's not militia, that's domestic terror. and the president is the one that led the chants stop the steal. as we all know, nothing was stolen. thank you so much for joining us. coming up, new reporting overnight. one of trump's lawyers quit the team hours before opening arguments. remember, it was a week ago three others quit the team, except trump got that guy back on board. how did he do it? we're going to find out when we come back. e going to find out w come back. new nyquil severe honey is maximum strength cold and flu medicine with soothing honey-licious taste. nyquil honey. the nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, stuffy head, fever best sleep with a cold medicine. ♪♪ jackson hewitt knows times have changed... ...both how and where you work. and your taxes could have changed too. let our tax pros work for you and fight for every dollar you deserve. (sam) gamers! he who is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else. take fuzzywuzzy28. blamin' losses on a laggy network. only one or two. verizon 5g ultra wideband is here, the fastest 5g in the world, with ultra... low... lag! stop blaming the network and start becoming the best gamers in the ga-- that escalated quickly. (sam) 5g ultra wideband, now in parts of many cities. this is 5g built right. only from verizon. super emma just about sleeps in her cape. but when we realized she was battling sensitive skin, we switched to tide plus downy free. it's gentle on her skin, and out cleans our old bargain detergent. tide pods plus downy free. safe for sensitive skin with eczema and psoriasis. if you smell gas, you're too close. leave the structure, call 911, keep people away, and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. to defend against dark forces attacking your organization, you need to see in the dark. to have the wisdom to understand multiple cyber threats. the precision focus to end attacks instantly. on computers, mobile devices, servers and the cloud. join the world's leading companies in our mission to defend. cybereason. end cyber attacks. from endpoints to everywhere. if you see wires down, treat them all as if they're hot and energized. stay away from any downed wire, call 911, and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. the former president's defense team argued friday that trump is the real victim of what they call a, quote, constitutional cancel culture. in an effort to prove that point, they showcased an 11 minute video of prominent democrats using the word fight without any context to show what they believe is language used by many politicians, not just trump. but it appears one of trump's lawyers had an issue with how they used the video exhibits. "new york times" reports that david schoen threatened to quit thursday over a, quote, debate how to use the video clips in defense. monicaal about a is in west palm beach florida. a week ago you and i were talking about three lawyers that quit the team. now it was two nights ago, schoen didn't like the video that we ended up watching yesterday? >> reporter: he wasn't thrilled with it, according to "new york times," steph, but obviously according to them former president trump called him, persuaded him to stay on board, and that's ultimately what he decided to do. we know that because he appeared yesterday, was a part of all of the proceedings until sundown, then he left to observe the sabboth. we don't see him today as part of the team, shouldn't read into the fact this is someone that decided to quit or part ways necessarily. we're told the legal team as it stands remains intact. but that reporting from the times shows you the intense turmoil and disagreement. this is something that has plagued the former president because he has gone through so many different legal teams until this point, and some people representing him, like michael vanderveen were brought on board. it shows you how the process has been. we are told yesterday while donald trump was watching the defense team from mar-a-lago, he was far more pleased with what he saw opposed to earlier when he didn't like bruce castor's style or substance. we are told that yesterday he liked that people kept it shorter in the presentations and that donald trump really enjoyed the video montages that evidence that was selectively edited, even though they were accusing democrats are doing the same thing. i am told the former president liked the videos because they resembled at times campaign ads he had for his re-election effort that ultimately failed. so that shows you that this is a person obsessed with the optics of all this, and he was enjoying that. i'm also told he fully expects to be acquitted today, at least that's why aides and allies advised him not to weigh in publicly or have any on camera events as the trial continues to unfold because they don't want him to accidentally say something that could derail an all but assured outcome at this point. they're feeling incredibly confident, the defense team, but the open question of witnesses, we haven't gotten reaction yet on that. they said earlier in the week if house managers decide to go ahead and call them, the defense team has a long list they would be happy to call as well. as we know, that would prolong the length of the trial, and at this point that doesn't seem to be something either side is particularly interested in, steph. >> the president enjoyed watching the video montage, listening to his lawyers mispronounce the name of our vice president, kamala harris, which if it was an accident, that is ridiculous, seeing it was the most important public remarks of the lawyers' lives, if it was intentional, it is disgraceful. monica, thank you so much. correspondent joining us from west palm beach. speaking of witnesses, senator mazie hirono from hawaii joins us next on what are the chances we will see witnesses called. esd liberty mutual customized my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. what a great day! what an ok day. what a messed up- only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? what if your clothes could stay fresh for weeks? now they can! downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters keep your laundry smelling fresh way longer than detergent alone. pour a cap of downy unstopables into your washing machine before each load and enjoy fresher smelling laundry. with 6 times the freshness ingredients, downy unstopables gives you more of what you love. if you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks make sure you have downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters. are the color cartridges in your printer ready for another school year? (boy) what's cyan mean? it means "cyanora," honor roll. (mimics missile dropping) the ink! dad!!! dad!!! i'm so hosed. yeah, you are. (shaq) the epson ecotank printer. no more cartridges. it comes with an incredible amount of ink that can save you a lot of trips to the store. get ready for the dean's list. who's dean? the epson ecotank. just fill and chill. what's the #1 retinol brand used most by dermatologists? tah-dah, it's neutrogena® with derm-proven retinol, rapid wrinkle repair® smooths the look of fine lines in 1-week, deep wrinkles in 4. so you can kiss wrinkles, and other wrinkle creams goodbye. rapid wrinkle repair® pair with our most concentrated retinol ever for 2x the power. neutrogena® ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ we are a little more than an hour away from what could be the final day of the impeachment trial. new reporting may change the dynamics of the proceedings. sources tell nbc news that kevin mccarthy called the former president during the riot january 6th begging him for help to get control of his supporters as they were storming the capitol. this reporting is brand new evidence about trump's real time reaction to the mob. trump reportedly responded to mccarthy saying well, kevin, i guess these people are more upset about the election than you are. mccarthy reportedly dropped an f bomb in the call telling trump who the f do you think you're talking to. let's not forget that leader mccarthy then met with trump at mar-a-lago a few weeks later in florida. joining me now, democratic senator mazie hirono of hawaii, who was front and center for the process. >> good morning. >> this is all about a conversation kevin mccarthy had, tommy tubberville had with president trump. obviously kevin mccarthy is not in the room, but tommy tubberville is. take us inside the chamber. while all this is being said, are people looking at senator tubberville saying please speak up here, sir? >> all of this has been widely reported. my republican colleagues heard it. do i think any of the new information that is more damning evidence against what trump was up to what changed any minds? i do not think so. that is the sad thing about what's happening with the republicans and their party and my colleagues. >> if all this reporting hasn't changed what republicans are going to do, does it make sense to call witnesses? while we have been on air, we have seen a second senator, democratic senator, jeff merck lee, call for delay and suspension of trial so we can call witnesses. what do you think of that? >> it will be up to the house managers to make the determination. frankly, if witnesses were called, do i think republican minds would be changed, i do not think so. here is kevin mccarthy. not only does he have that in the middle of the siege phone call, the president basically says too bad, you know, he is basically enjoying this, the president, and then mccarthy turns around and goes to florida to kiss trump's ring. what is that? it is a party that's lost its way. when mitch mcconnell tells us vote your conscience, you know what that means, vote your political future. that's what it means. so we know what that's going to result in. >> why does that political future mean siding with president trump? you talk to, think about constituents all the time. what is it about the american people that makes the american people not see the difference between right and wrong here. >> it is not all of the american people, it is trump's base. it is trump's base that they're afraid of. and they're also afraid of trump because trump continues to hold sway. here's a guy that's such a narcissist, do we think he is going to fade into the sunset? i don't think so. they're very fearful of trump and his base. thankfully not all of the american people. i say the majority of american people right now seeing the evidence presented and riots and murderers' intent, i think the majority of the american people want the president to be convicted. >> would it be a bad thing if president trump ran again, if he were to be impeached, he wouldn't be allowed to run again. if he doesn't, he would run again. given the majority of american people find what happened january 6th and potentially what happened the last four years to be a disgrace, would that not be a win for democrats? president trump could run and split the ticket, that's a win for democrats. >> one would hope, but with president trump, you never know the damage he can do. he mobilized, cultivated this mob, assembled this mob, lit the fire, the match that sent the mob to the white house to siege and murder a police officer. there's nothing i would put past trump. one hopes he has been massively weakened by this, but you never know. therefore, anyone, he should be convicted of having incited insurrection. the house managers did a great job connecting the dots to show the months-long, basically he laid siege to the american public claiming the election had been stolen and he had enough of his followers come to the capitol. you saw the pictures, thousands massed, some with tools and body armor. he couldn't possibly not have known there would be damage, that there would be a riot. >> those same people, their spirit could be ignited again if the president is acquitted. senator, thank you so much. i know you're heading back in the chamber in less than an hour. appreciate you joining us. democratic senator mazie hirono of hawaii. in the midst of the ex-president's second impeachment trial, members of the gop met to discuss forming a third political party for anti-trump conservatives. but is there even a space for that? before we get to that, we have a bit of positive news. yesterday, the senate voted unanimously to award capitol police officer eugene goodman, a great american, with congressional gold medal for heroism during the insurrection. officer goodman who has been with the agency since 2009 single handedly led dozens of rioters from a chamber several lawmakers were located. you can see in the surveillance, warning about the danger to come. it was used as evidence by the house impeachment managers. that man is a hero. here's the senate majority leader chuck schumer speaking about it. >> here in this trial we saw new video, powerful video showing calmness under pressure, courage in the line of duty, foresight in the midst of chaos, and his willingness to make himself a target of the mob's rage so that others might reach safety. officer goodman is in the chamber tonight. officer goodman, thank you. [ applause ] good morning, mr. sun. good morning, blair. [ chuckles ] whoo. i'm gonna grow big and strong. yes, you are. i'm gonna get this place all clean. i'll give you a hand. and i'm gonna put lisa on crutches! wait, what? said she's gonna need crutches. she fell pretty hard. you might want to clean that up, girl. excuse us. when owning a small business gets real, progressive helps protect what you built with customizable coverage. -and i'm gonna -- -eh, eh, eh. -donny, no. -oh. -and i'm gonna -- -eh, eh, eh. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (naj) at fisher investments, we do things differently and other money managers don't understand why. (money manager) because our way works great for us! (naj) but not for your clients. that's why we're a fiduciary, obligated to put clients first. (money manager) so, what do you provide? cookie cutter portfolios? (naj) nope, we tailor portfolios to our client's needs. (money manager) but you do sell investments that earn you high commissions, right? (naj) we don't have those. (money manager) so what's in it for you? (naj) our fees are structured so we do better when you do better. at fisher investments we're clearly different. ♪ you're not using too much are you hon? nope... charmin ultra soft is so soft you'll have to remind your family they can use less. charmin ultra soft is twice as absorbent so you can use less. don't worry, there's plenty left for you, dad. we all go, why not enjoy the go with charmin. go pro at subway® for double the protein on footlong subs and the new protein bowls. and if you want to go pro like marshawn, you don't let anything get in your way. here we go! yeah, appreciate you, man! go pro and get double the protein for just $2 more. ♪♪ go pro and get double the protein dad, i'm scared. ♪♪ it's only human to care for those we love. and also help light their way. ♪♪ it's why last year chevron invested billions of dollars to bring affordable, reliable, ever cleaner energy to america. ♪♪ 1 in 2 kids is under hydrated. ♪ plant-powered creative roots gives kids the hydration they need, with the fruit flavors they love. and one gram of sugar. find creative roots in the kids' juice aisle. for the last five years, the gop two impeachments most republican officials and voters seem to be sticking with him. according to a gallup poll only 10% of republican voters and those leaning republican want him to be convicted in this trial. 88% think he should be acquitted, but no matter the result of this trial, the party may soon have even bigger problems. according to "the new york times" nearly 140,000 republicans have left the party in 25 states since the insurrection on january 6th. multiple reports surfaced this week of a zoom call held with more than 120 former gop officials who discussed forming a third political party that is anti-trump. i want to bring in one of those co-hosts of that call. evan mcmullen. he is the executive director for stand up republic. we have brandon buck, former chief communications adviser to former speaker paul ryan, but before we talk about the future, brendan, i have to ask you. you used to work for kevin mccarthy. talk to us about what is going on with him right now. we're having this hearsay. there was this call, he said this. he didn't say this. why wouldn't kevin mccarthy come out right now publicly and say here's what happened on january 6th between me and president trump? >> because i think kevin mccarthy is trying to run a conference and that's his number one priority for the last month or so. he's trying to keep his conference together which is being torn apart and focusing on the short-term rather than the long-term interests of the party. >> i have no idea what that means. let's just start that again. there is a big debate right now about what exactly happened on january 6th when murders took place, when a capitol police officer was beaten to death, and the big question is did former president trump stop this insurrection when he could have and kevin mccarthy knows a lot of that information. why wouldn't he set the record straight? >> kevin mccarthy has made a political calculation that it is in his interest to remain on the president's side. i hate that, but that is the political calculation that he has made and it works for him and the house republican conference where 99% of the members are die hard trump supporters or at least their voters are and to remain at the top of that conference that's the decision that he's made so he's not going to cross trump. we saw him flirt with that momentarily after what happened on january 6th, but very quickly moved in another direction. it is house republican conference politics that are driving a lot of these decisions. >> evan, who and what is that conference? because the conservative party that you joined was about small government and the conservative party that we're hearing about, is kevin mccarthy not putting the law as a top priority. trump lawyers mispronouncing our female black vice president's last name and the videos the defense attorneys used conveniently only showed democrats that were female minority or latino. is that the conservative party you ever subscribed to? >> no, it's want, and in my view this isn't conservatism although that word has been re-defined by trump and his movement especially over the last four to five years, but look, the way i see all of this is that this is about republican congressional leadership protecting power, their own power. this isn't about the interest of the republic. this isn't about defending liberty and justice for all in america. it's not about defending our system of self-government. this is about them protecting power. it's not about the facts of the case. it's not about donald trump. it's not about the insurrection. it's about them protecting power and as brendan points out, the base and as you pointed out, stephanie with those polls, the base is strongly with trump. i am encouraged and i will say that i think 25% to a third of the party desires a new direction, however they feel about this trial. they want a new direction for the party. that is a minority and it is not enough to move the party in a new direction, but that's a lot more than a new direction six months ago when many of us have been fighting with 10% to 15% support within the party. so can we pull the republican party back from this madness? i don't know. i think it's very difficult and it's certainly in the short term, i'm not very optimistec about that, but this country needs two political parties committed to our democratic republic and that's worth fighting for and either we pulled this republican party back to such a place or we have to compete with it directly. >> but brendan, why does it need to be pulled back? pulled back from what? the ashes? last i checked president trump lost the presidency, lost the house, lost the senate. >> absolutely. >> he's the kingmaker of what? >> almost every one of those senators political interests to move on from donald trump. whether you're in a swing state and you're mitch mcconnell or worried about keeping the majority or one of the half dozen who want to run for president and it is in your political interest to remove him from the stage and the truth is that's a long-term political interests and they're also focused on the short-term political interests. nobody wants to have their phones blowing up. he is a national political disaster, but locally, for their constituents, these guys are professional politicians. they know what their voters want. their voters still want donald trump, and so we're never going to change that until we start taking on donald trump more directly. i love what nikki haley said recently. >> really? really? hold on a second and you believe nikki haley is in that for the long haul and it was a week and a half ago that said let's stand by him. you don't think she wants to knock donald trump out and she can run in 2024? please! >> i hope she is trying to knock him out so she can run in 2024. i want people to take him on directly, whether she would hold on to that or not and we need to have people take him on directly, and too many are hoping that he'll just go away. >> it will be interesting to watch her take him on directly after the book she wrote praising him. >> we are staying on msnbc's senate impeachment trial and we'll have more at the top of the hour when i am joined by my two partners, hallie jackson and katie tur. do not go anywhere. we are one hour away from the senate gaveling back in. rom the senate gaveling back in. collection from gain! tur. katy tur. stay restless with the icon that does the same. the rx crafted by lexus. lease the 2021 rx 350 for $429 a month for thirty six months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. look at this human trying to get in shape. for thirty six months. you know what he will get? muscle pain. give up, the couch is calling. i say, it's me, the couch, i'm calling. pain says you can't. advil says you can. (sam) gamers! verizon 5g ultra wideband is here, with ultra... low... lag! so start becoming the best gamers in the ga-- (avatars) oohh! (sam) 5g ultra wideband, now in parts of many cities. this is 5g built right. wanna build a gaming business that breaks the internet? that means working night and day... ...and delegating to an experienced live bookkeeper for peace of mind. your books are all set. so you can finally give john some attention. trusted experts. guaranteed accurate books. intuit quickbooks live. before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new? -well, audrey's expecting... -twins! grandparents! we want to put money aside for them, so...change in plans. alright, let's see what we can adjust. ♪♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. okay. mom, are you painting again? you could sell these. lemme guess, change in plans? at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. when you've got a business, you don't want to worry about slow internet or l confusing cybersecurity.ns? so get comcast business internet with fast, reliable speeds, and add the advanced security of comcast business securityedge. it combines the speed you need with threat protection. plus there's 24/7 support. it's internet and advanced security - made simple. so bounce forward - with comcast business. get started with a powerful internet and voice solution for just $64.90 a month. and ask how to add comcast business securityedge. call today. good morning from washington where we are bringing you msnbc's special coverage of the second impeachment trial of donald trump. a trial that will probably end da

Related Keywords

Witnesses , Vote , Side , Closing Arguments , Whether , Msnbc , Special Coverage , 5 , Two , 00 , Capitol Hill , Us , Look , Donald Trump , Some , Impeachment Trial , All , Verdict , Proceedings , Mv Day , Unravelled , Details , Riot , East , Out West , January 6th , 6 , 2 , President , Kevin Mccarthy , Reporting , Phone Call , People , Election , Pure Political Play On Kevin , Help , What Point Mccarthy , Upset , Team , Teams , Wrap Up , Developments , President Trump S Second Impeachment Trial , Question , Shape , Facts , Tommy Tuberville , Oath , Up , Depose Mccarthy , Tweeting Out , Sheldon Whitehouse , Heels , One , Senate , Jamie Raskin , Setting Standards , Conduct , Blanks , Client , Mike Pence , Vice President , Mob , Chanting , Tweets , Building Hang , Hang , Traitor , Testimony , Ground , Highlights , 14th Amendment , 14 , Fact , Rioters , Office , Problems , Democrats , Accountable , Many , Gop , Bankruptcy , Breaking News , Public , Story , The American , Rate , Reaction , Eyes , Mccarthy On January 6th , Development , 24 , Things , Call , Showing , House Minority Leader , January 6th Insurrection , Reactions , Pleading , Suspense , Insurrectionists , Game , Election Results , Making Mccarthy , Senators , Both , Loyalty , Each Other , Head , Rhode Island , Something , Witness Question , Questions , House Impeachment Managers , Defense Lawyers , Arguing , Castro , Defense Lawyer , Listen , Danger , Chaos , Family , Carnage , Mayhem , Breaking Point , There Isn T , Nothing , Commander In Chief , Reason , Senator , Contention , Alabama , Discussions , Four , 10 , Defense , Votes , Prosecution , Fate , 17 , Censure , Impeachment , Trump , Thanks , The End , Five , Points , David Jolly , Contributor , California , Front , Debate , Reports , Center , Three , Mar A Lago , Thing , Meeting , The One , House , White House , Support , Members , Care , Speaker , Point , Defenses , News , State Of Mind , January 6th Speech , Rally , Concept , Big Lie , Speech , Predicate , Others , Washington On January 6th , Risk , Harm , Jamie Herrera Butler , Change , Washington D C , Terms , Information , Witness List , Out , Yes , Caucus , Representative , Word , Anyone , Process , Anything , Impact , Civil Court , Sense , Jury , Rules , Civil Procedure , Hearsay , 51 , Conversation , Aides , Dynamic , Leader , Changes , Environment , Versus , Case , Defense Team , Acquittal , Second , Nation , Stay With Me , Reporter , Lawyers , Remarks , Alice Barr , Words , Act , Vengeance , Unjust , Fight Like Hell , Capitol Siege , Country , Free Speech , Behavior , Rhetoric , Fight , Lie , Montage , Essence , Supporters , Attack , Actions , Pattern , Hypocrisy , Egging , Chance , Defense Counsel , Protests , Blame , Peaceful , Person , Everyone , Step , Time , Alice Barr Reporting , Irony , Bends , Statement , Riots , Power , It , House Managers , Place , Elements , Type , Movement , Premise , Invitation , Calendar , Violence , Managers , Notion , Arguments , Nuance , Electoral College , Certified , It Doesn T , Peace , Democracy , Undermining , Certification , Steal , Banter , The Steal , Second Tuesday In November , Witch Hunt , Buzzwords , Lot , Culture , Administration , Reference , Emotion , Politics , Sides , Convictions , Base , Curiosity , Intrigue , 20 , Zero , Number , Attorneys , Argument , Texturalism , Ears , Ten , Defense Attorneys , Language , David Jolly Thanks , Trial Meeting , Middle , Jurors , Ted Cruz , Life , Health Insurance , Test Kit , Tests , Colon Cancer , Screening , Diy Test Kit , Huh , Human Way , Humana , Healthcare , Hassle , Ultra Wideband , World , Gamers , Making Excuses , Losses , 5g , Sam , Verizon , Laggy Network , Anything Else , Blamin , Take Fuzzywuzzy28 , Network , Parts , Cities , Lag , Ultra , Ga , Prescriptions , Advice , Leo , Medications , Pharmacists , Medicare , Walgreens , Internet , Threat , Protection , Security , Speeds , Business , Cybersecurity , Business Securityedge , Fast , Comcast , Speed , 24 7 , Voice , Comcast Business , Solution , 64 90 , 4 90 , Violent , Catalyst , Episode , Statements , Crowd , Examination , Article , Hell , Thinking , Incitement , Ellipse , Suggestion , Face , Danny , Cases , Let , Screen , Made A , Manager , Minds , Protesters , Star , Video Set , Side By , Production Quality , Views , Vote Count , Themes , Presentation , Trial , Situation , Grounds , Problem , Maneuver , Strategy , Amendment , Bets , Impeachment Hearing , Streets , Supreme Court , Supreme Court Precedent , Prosecutor , Context , Neck , Uphill Battle , Defense Didn T , Defense Attorney , Hearing , Thoughts , Heckler S Veto , Nudnicks , Handful , Admission , 16 , Way , Proof , Burden , Don T , Folks , Don T Press , Outcome , Preview , Voting , Money , Impeachment Trial Attorneys , Decision , Trial Attorneys , Doubt , Take Care , Buddy , Everything , Troubles , Next , Capitol Building , Don T Tell , No Sweat , Republicans , Schedule , Conviction , Eastern , Senators Romney , Sasse , Toomey , 50 , Joe Biden , Top , Relief Package , Covid , Presidents , Town , Lawmakers , Camp David For The First Time , Weekend , Advisers , Winner , Other , Campaign , Silence , Ran , Basis , Temperature , Promises , Relief Bill , 1 9 Trillion , 9 Trillion , Oval Office , Infrastructure Package , Any , Friends , Jen Psaki , On The Road , Written Statement , Closure , Opportunity , Wisconsin On Tuesday Night , Town Hall Meeting , Pleasure , Part , Report , Vaccine Center , Effort , Package , Sales , Michigan , Thread , Misdemeanor Downs , History , Texas , Real Estate Broker , Jenna Ryan , Government Building , Authority , Disorderly Conduct , Event , Capitol , Charges , Bankruptcies , Signs , 60 , Cynthia Miller Idrist , Taxes , Foreclosure , Eviction , Debt , American University , Feeling , Hate , Homeland , Author , Finding , Insecurity , Uneasiness , Grievances , Precariousness , Most , Society , Extremism , Poor , Poverty , Unemployed , Experience , Risk Factor , Mortgage Failure , Parent , Someone , Someone Else , Misinformation , The Post , Bankruptcy Rate , Quarter , 18 , Home , Creditor , Filings , 1 , Mix , Issues , Spectrum , People Protesting Second Amendment Rights , Majority , Supremacists , Immigration , Stop , Orders , Rights , Shelter , Fear , Ideology , Extremist , Easily , Study , Business Owners , Say , Workers , White Collar , 40 , 9 , Poorest , Edge , Loss , Class , Dots , Childhood , Profile , Didn T , Exchange , Individuals , Professor , Impeachment Q A , Response , Prosecutors , Judgment , Counsel , 2 1 , Order , Proceeding , Senator Sanders , Michael Starr Hopkins Of Northern Star Strategies , Hillary Clinton Campaign , Michael Van Der Veen Couldn T , Lawyer , Failure , Reality , Know , Zealously , Disbarible , Idea , Voters , Sway , Ballot Box , Midterms , 2022 , Video , Congressman , Beginning , Places , States , Constituencies , Isn T , Clout , Missouri , South Carolina , Third Party , Ring , Bet , Wing , Party , Mitt Romney , Division , Hearing Rumors , Josh Hawley Branch , Jim Jordan , 15 , Ability , Elections , Focus , Trump Wasn T , Fracturing , Aren T , Speakers , Men , January 6th Rally , 12 , Liability , Department Or , Action , Investigations Whether , Accountability , Tracks , Incited , Donors , Committee Assignments , Election Track , Price , Officials , Company , Seat , The Shining Star , Reagan , Michael Van Der Veen , Out On A Limb , Bunch , Bit , Coverage , Florida , Investigation , Right , Phone Calls , Victory , Lindsey Graham , Source , Washington Post , Paper , State , Secretary Of State , Brad Raffensperger , Cori Coffin On , Atlanta , Correspondent Cori Coffin , District Attorney , Fulton County , Eamon , January 2nd , 11780 , Evidence , Fani Willis , Government Offices , Paperwork , Letter , Margin , Criminal Investigation , Colleague , Effect , Rachel Maddow , Due Diligence , Timeline , Jurisdiction , Complaint , Subpoena , Wouldn T , Grand Jury , Complaints , Rainy Day , New York , Shouting Match , Doctor , Um , Phone , Computer , Human Care , Follow , Numbers , Ways , Tablet , Shoes , Ooo , Easy Peasy , Mhm , Ayman Mohyeldin With New Drama Building In Washington , World Headquarters , Suspension , Quote , Jamie Herrera Beutler , Antifa , Nbc News , Lawmaker , Safety , Turn , Concern , Tweet , Secret Service , Seven , Bill Cassidy , Follow Up , Record , Courage , Law Enforcement Backup , Show , Lack , Law Enforcement , Intimidation , Answer , Josh Dawsey , Assessment , Reporters , Bottom , Trio , Capitol Riot , Let S Begin , Marianna Sotomayor , Marianna , Job , Lines , Factor , Specifics , Saying , Impeachment Managers , Course , Expectation , Forth Witnesses , Motions , Conversations , Monica Alba , Conclusion , Midafternoon , Lots , Monica , Shaping Up , West Palm Beach , The New York Times , David Schoen , Montages , Video Evidence , Staying , Former , Group , Saabage , Plan , Closing Arguments Today , Surprise , Bruce Castor , Turmoil , Who , Videos , Viewers , Claims , Voter Fraud , Glimpse , Landslide , Background , Lies , Groans , Everybody , Orbit , Eugene , Hesitancy , Politico S Eugene Daniels , Anna Garon , Doing , Wasn T Doing , Fans , It Shouldn T , Piece , Issue , Kind , Interviews , House Democrats , Deposition , Twitter , Picture , Palm Beach , Talk , Haven T We Heard , Peril , Times , Couple , Address , Press Pool , Making A Last Appeal , Pence , Mind , Behalf , Physical Impossiblity , Stews , Mood , Soldier , Indiana , Nikki Haley , Conservative , Roots , Podcast , Radio Talk Show Host , Bleep , Clip , Act Like A , Guys , Bro , Touch Me , Law And Order , Paycheck , 1776 , Position , Police Officers , Attacking , Capitol Police , Activists , Aisle , White Americans , Law , Hadn T , They Weren T Breaking The Law , Building , They Weren T Trespassing , Ayman , Set , Laws , People Who , Frankly , Anne , Couch , Knowing , Trial Up , Sounds , Chances , Appetite , Events , Agenda , Big Push For , Theory , View , Standards , Cost , Acquit , Add Witnesses , Craven Politics , Little , Dicey , Contents , Team Coins , Annanne Gearan , Hatred , Term , Argument Stick , Impeachment Adviser , Insight , Old Spice Dynay , Bill Clinton , Dviser , Retailers , Vo , Subaru , Children , Driver S Seat , Hunger , Feeding America , 50 Million , Love , Meals , Need , 100 Million , Donation , Glucose Control , Car Company , Blood Sugar , Blood Sugar Levels , Blend , Diabetes , Insurance , Martin , Usaa , Protein , Glucose Control Products , Health , Veterans , Nutrients , Hailstorm Hit , Try Boost , Energy , Laundry , Cold , Secret , Xfinity Mobile , Tide , Tide Pods , 300 , Store , Xfinity , Phones , Line , Savings , Trade , Data , Device , Appointment , Peace Of Mind , Insurrection , Footage , Capitol On January 6th , Guy Smith , Approach , Table , Dent , Pounding , 3 1 2 , Weren T , Grand Theft Auto , Distraction , Disrespect , Understanding , Processes , Constitution , Performance , Real Trial In Court , On Tv , Better , It Didn T Change Anything , Decisions , Morning , Revelation , On January 6th , Crime , Government , Misdemeanor , Trump Base , Happening , Criticizing Trump , American , Hands , Football , Which , Code , Implications , Chinese , Russians , Thought , Coming Up , Impeachment Counterprogramming , Camp David , Trial Drama , E , Theo Ar Those Next , Brains , Looks , Uh Oohhh There , Brawn , Opportunities , Allstate Drivers , Allstate , 700 , Pad , Overlap , Bladder Leak Pads , It S Time , Voltaren Arthritis Pain Gel , Discreet , Qanon Conspiracy , Prescription , Gel , Voltaren , Counter , Arthritis Pain Relief , Strength , Customers , Non Steroidal , Joy , T Mobile , 55 , Carriers , Vs , 800 , 0 , 30 , 1 800 T Mobile , Page , Calls , Parter , Mike , Mike Memoli , That S Right , Chagrin , President Elect , Congress , Trillion American Rescue Plan , Wilmington , More , Day By , Valentine S Day , Work , Stroll , Display , First Lady , What , Cable Pundit , Paper Statement , Back , Back On The Road , Importance , Work Ahead , Vaccine Manufacturing Plant , Recovery Plan , Session , Behind , Phase , Infrastructure Plan , Friend , Stimulus Program , Infrastructure , In D C , Chat Room , Name , Pro , Gaming , Trump Qanon , Use , Qanon , Expensing , Expenses , Books , Good , Bank , Balance , Pizza , 100 , Clothes , Businesses , Bookkeeping , Intuit Quickbooks , Payroll , Payments , Towel , Sign , Downy , Smelling Laundry , Laugh , Cap , Load , Washing Machine , Homeowners , Parents , Nope , Practice , Noah , Grunts , Shot , Kee On Oh , Joaquin , Auto , Pdf , Progressive , Battle , No Fussin , No Cussin , New Rewards From Chase Freedom Unlimited , Takeout , Cash , Drugstores , Dining , Rita , Chase , Bon Appetit , Kim , Neal , 3 , Travel , 1 5 , Oman , Stream , Call Trump , Tell Trump What S On , To Siege , Dude , Wanted , We Love You , Chat Rooms , Stewart Thompson , Voices , Editor , Motivation , Exchanges , Connection , Expectations , Groups , Attacks , Laying Groundwork , Police , Diana Degette , Laundry List , Boys , Boogaloo Bois , Sorts , Alliance , Umbrella , Actors , The Movement , Walks , Community , Listening , Neighbors , Uncles , Umbrellas , Aunts , Funnel , Example , Organizers , Facebook , Activities , Kinds , Bartenders , Sort , Result , The Street , Sure , Belief , Influencers , Associates , Groundwork , Social Media , Theories , Stuart Thompson , Scene , Stakes , Mark Veveasey , Wn We Return , Aveasey , Flings , Gain , Dog , Darrell , Gain Scent , Oxi Boost , Gain Fling , Febreze , Me Towel Su , Addition , Substitute Teaching , Greg , 68 , Adults , Calling , Prevagen , Elephant , Memory , Healthier Brain , Piano Music , Extreme , Comfort , Noises , Loud Music , Suvs , Lincoln , Commercials , Liberty Mutual , Statue Of Liberty , Liberty Mutual Customizes Wait , Car Insurance , Uhhh , Money Manager , Money Managers , Judith , Fisher Investments , Pay , Seagulls Sounds , Investments , Clients , Commissions , Needs , Cookie Cutter Portfolios , Portfolios , Fiduciary , Fees , Trump Lawyers , Defense Argument , Newspaper Coverage , Opportunism , Vitriol , Room , Sidebar Piece , Photograph , Column , Twisting Facts , Opponents , Barristers , Warning , Marc Veasey , Committees , Commerce , House Arms Services , Sir , Trump Running Again , Losing , Ted Lieu , Comments , Perspective , It S , Hold , Running , Say Anything , Called Trump , Sources , First , Nature , Mindset , Angels , Mind Wasn T , He Wasn T , January The 20th , Minority Leader , Plane , Articles , Confidence , Censure Measure , Forward , Fathers , Act A Complete Fool , Presidency , On The Last Day , Treason , 11 , Message , Level , Misdemeanors , Emergency , Firstnet , Emergency Response Network , Agencies , Responders , Technology , At T , Heartburn , Prilosec Otc , Formula , Stomach Acid , Stomach Acid Refluxes , Esophagus , Heartburn Protection , Zero Heartburn , Acid Production , Wayne S World , Party Time , Party On , Access , Restaurants , Wayne , Garth , Celebrity Cameo , Cardi B , Sh Yeah , Giggles , Eats , 7 , 4 , 26 , January The 6th , 92 , 45 , 2000 , 2021 , 2024 , 10000 , 90 , Six , 911 , 2009 , , 88 , 140000 , 25 , 120 , 99 , 29 , Thirty Six , 429 , 350 ,