as impeachment managers delivered the single article for inciting an insurrection to the senate yesterday. the trial will begin in ernest february 8th. a little over a week from now. giving both sides time to prepare their cases and the senate time to confirm president biden's cabinet appointees. we also learned senate president pro tem, longest serving member of the majority side, patrick leahy, will preside over the trial. according to chuck schumer, leahy was in line after chief justice roberts declined to preside over a trial of a non-sitting president. >> i think mika started without me. did you start without me? . >> how rude. >> the show starts, and you have to sit down, sweetie. >> this is my place. >> i know. you need to get in your chair and start your show. . >> here's the deal. we never start at 6:00. okay? >> we obviously do. >> hurry up and wait thing. willie, i had stuff i wanted to talk to you about. >> that is very frustrating. >> this is really awkward. i'm going to have to talk about something else. >> not tom brady. >> so, willie, you and i were off yesterday. you had the kids thing. the lower east side orphanage thing. best charity, i swear to god, in all of new york. and i was running that marathon i run every time this year. . >> every year. . >> every year up in the dakotas. let's talk about brady for a second. >> he's the best. tampa. >> no. joey scarborough said at the beginning of the season, the buccaneers are going to win the super bowl. and i laughed. but, man. i'm sorry, mika, we have to talk about. >> yeah. we did yesterday. >> but willie wasn't here. he had that kids thing. i'm curious what willie thought. >> well, it's funny to think about a couple of years ago there was debate whether or not tom brady was the best quarterback in the history of the nfl. obviously there's no question about that anymore. to go to 10 super bowls, to play in twice as many afc championship games as the greatest quarterbacks whoever lived played in. like joe montana, for example, he's on a completely different plane. tampa. okay. he has some receivers. maybe he will be able to do something. to think they could go through green bay at lambeau field, it's astonishing. i guess not that surprising because it's tom brady. he always has a chance every game he plays in. brady is the greatest quarterback of all time. the only people in a conversation with him in sports now are ma ham medaly, bill russell, who transcend sports and have won as much as he has. he is incredible. . >> i held out for a while and said it was either brady, joe montana or steve burr cow sky. it's a falcons joke, guys. the guy has played 18 nfl seasons and has been to the conference championship game 14 of those 18 years. >> yeah. >> that's absolutely unbelievable. >> okay. i've been cleaning up my work space here. . >> let's get back to the news for a minute. i understand roberts is like i can't do it. i'll be out taking a smoke so i can't do your impeachment thing. but shouldn't they find a judge in the d.c. circuit or something other than a democrat, any democrat who already voted to impeach donald trump a year ago? because i would be saying the same thing. my god, what would we be saying if we get to do this now. what would we be saying if ron johnson or john cornyn or lindsey graham were running things. nothing against senator leahy. you can't have somebody running your impeachment trial that voted to impeach him a year ago or voted not to. >> the judge should not also serve on the jury of a trial. john roberts, the supreme court chief justice said i can't do this again. i don't have time. but this is technically the way it should go out if the supreme court justice, the chief justice can't sit on this trial. but it does give the appearance certainly that a person who is already convinced that this man is guilty, that this president should be impeached, it does give the impression that is a partisan operation. i suspect senator leahy will do everything in his power not to do that. i'm sure the republicans will seize on it. house democrats poring over hundreds of hours of video to help build their case that donald trump incited the capitol attack. sources tell the paper one idea under consideration is to produce a video how rioters reacted to the january 6th remarks before the attack. and democrats are particularly interested in this video produced by the online form just security. >> yeah! >> invade the capitol building. >> take the capitol. . >> take the capitol! >> take the capitol right now! >> so, katty, you can hear in that video the crowd hours before listening to president trump's speech. it is in the two months leading up to january 6th. it's going to be wild. all the things he was inspiring, the conspiracy theories he was push to go suggest that he actually won the election. >> yeah. and actually even, willie, i've been hearing from people on the management team it is going to be looking at the video after too. the video the president put out where he called them great patriots and said he loved them, he didn't denounce them. he asked them to go home but not a repudiation of what they did. they want to broaden it out to the president's role in trying to steal the election more generally. you have heard people in the crowds kind of defend themselves saying we couldn't hear what the president was saying. the sound quality was terrible. we didn't know he was going down to the capitol. you very clearly hear certain phrases that get picked up directly by the crowd and relayed to the back of the crowd. that's why the video is going to be so important. because it's the president's words that then get echoed exactly by the crowd before they go and storm the capitol. >> yeah. it's not, willie, the life of brian where the jesus character in the monty python said blessed are the meek. blessed are the greeks? they own everything! this is repeated in the pack. >> it's sent to the back. >> and they're going, yes, yes. storm the capitol. yes, let's take over the capitol! >> what more do you need? >> mika, that's what in the law we would say is good evidence. >> yeah. >> this is why you're here, joe. . >> yeah, it is. >> unlike josh hawley, i was listening during my three years. . >> oh, we'll get to josh. >> during law school. don't think if somebody comes up and says they don't like my show it is a violation of first amendment rights. >> josh hawley is crying now. >> that corvette. you're not giving me the corvette. that is a violation -- i don't get a multimillion dollar book contract. i have to go to another place. >> we were going to do that later. >> we need to do that later. but willie, who else is stupid enough. and i have said this guy has to be the dumbest guy, other than ron johnson. he doesn't really count. he has to be the dumbest guy in the united states senate. because he is arguing that he lives in a communist country where his first amendment rights are violated as he is writing a front page op-ed on the new york post. >> and it gets published. . >> he's getting paid how much money to write a book? and he's claiming his first amendment rights are violated because it is not simon & schuster. >> i thought businesses had the right to choose who they do business with. >> i know i killed hamlet, not even the first act, before the curtain went up. >> yep. >> what a whiner. all of these right wing seditionists who are saying private companies are making decisions about the content they want in their, you know -- suddenly, they're -- but this guy has been talking about this a long time, claiming first amendment violations based on content they choose to run or not run. listen, my deal is i just want to sue them. i just want to be able to sue them in the free marketplace of ideas. that's fine. let me sue twitter. let me sue facebook. let americans sue twitter. this guy, he wants to control their content. he wants to control what private companies in the marketplace can and cannot publish. he's either stupid as hell or out of his mind. >> well, he's not stupid as hell. that's theroblem. he's cynical as hell. he thinks he is playing into some narrative. other counties said they are going to run for office. this is a theme the right is being censored. the radical left is quieting the conservative right and trying to keep their voices out of the public dialogue. josh hawley is say itting united states senator. i wrote a front page op-ed in the new york post talking about how he is being muzzled. he knows better. he knows exactly what they're doing. some other people may not be smart. this man is smart. it is a cynical play for his own political future. he's going to keep going with this obviously despite the fact that he knows he was one of the central characters in pushing this incitement and this riot and this attack on the capitol. >> i mean, he's a seditionists. he led an insurrection. he's responsible for cops being murdered. he is responsible for everything we saw. he was at the forefront of it. of course, he's shameless. he's still shameless about all of that. he hasn't a poll skwraoeutzed to america. but he needs to apologize. the people that raised him. people that taught him. they're ashamed of him. you read one person after another that taught this guy in school, that taught him in law school, that were mentors to him. they're ashamed to know a guy who used what they say are talents. i haven't seen them yet. i guess he had talents. but -- but he goes to stanford and yale and he uses it for evil. he uses it to kill capitol cuts. he use it to run seditions against the united states of america. this guy, he has the bone structure, by the way. he's such a thin little guy. he has the bone structure of a bird. and he is holding up the little bird hands. look at that. look at him. >> joe! . >> come on, fellows. let's do it. . >> wee! >> all right. >> but still he's doing this sedition power salute to a mob that goes in and kills cops. and he doesn't back off at all? his approval rating in missouri is down in the 30s and he doesn't back off at all. you would think even for a guy that is this cynical, he would back off a little bit. but i will say this, i met a lot of people that have gone to ivy league schools that are just stupid. sorry. i'm not being anti intellectual. this guy is just being stupid as hell. and he's a seditionist. he should be kicked out of the united states senate. and then you know what he could write another book, make millions and millions of more dollars, have op east side. claim that his first amendment rights are being -- >> okay. >> the circle of life for josh hawley. >> a number of state party republicans continue to seek retribution against those who did not support former president donald trump. the oregon republican party published a resolution falsely claiming there is growing evidence that the january 6th attack on the capitol by a pro-trump mob was a false flag operation and suggested it was an orchestrated conspiracy designed to discredit president trump, his supporters, and all conservative republicans. this is such a stretch. >> it's a lie. . >> it's unbelievable. the resolution also condemns the betrayal by the 10 house republicans who voted to impeach president trump. in hawaii, an official with the state republican party resigned this past weekend, taking responsibility for highly criticized tweets defending supporters of the qanon conspiracy theory. edwin boyette exited after the official hawaii gop twitter account shared a isn't lated thread that read in part, we should make it abundantly clear the people who subscribed to the q fiction, were largely motivated by a sincere and deep love for america. patriotism and love of country should never be ridiculed. the republican party approved resolutions censuring doug doocy for certifying donald trump. and cindy mccain for opposing trump. and the republican party in texas drew criticism over the weekend for using its slogan, we are the storm on publicity materials and its twitter accounts which critics say links the party to qanon. according to the "houston chronicle", the storm is a phrase widely visible within the qanon movement. they are virtually oeud to those used on the radical qanon conspiracy theory, listed as a domestic terrorist attack by the fbi. the texas group denied any connection to qanon and said the slogan comes from a favorite poem of party chairman allen west. >> this is called ode to qanon. professor of global politics, brian klaas. your latest piece in the "washington post", it's entitled why is it so hard to deprogram trump and conspiracy theorists? with the rise of social media one can be alone but feel part of a group. some of the groups are glued together by unhinged beliefs. many were neither poor nor social misfits, but rather had found a digital community to augment or place their offline one. we can no longer pretend that conspiracy theorists are beneath our attention. they've shown they have tremendous capacity to inflict damage on society. they are not far off lunatics. some, most likely, are your neighbors and given the staying power of conspiratorial thinking, they aren't likely to change their minds anytime soon. >> wow. >> this is a great piece. it should be read in tandem with ann apple bomb's. it's always been my experience if you can't move people to your side over something, you know, in the past it would have been let's say the clinton impeachment or, you know, the 2,000 recount or the iraq war. just wait long enough and find other areas to find compromise, to find common ground and work together. in this case, though, you are right. you are talking about a set of deeply held conspiracy theories that these state parties, these state republican parties are clinging to. you would think arizona republicans would have learned from georgia republicans whose civil war made chuck schumer senate majority leader. they haven't. and texas, my god, one of the most important states in the union politically. they've turned their party over to wing nuts, to crack pots, to conspiracy theorists. >> yeah. i think the big point here is that it's very, very difficult to deprogram conspiracy theory believers because it is extremely social and people are finding fun in it. that doesn't let state parties off the hook, right? we need a coalition of reality, of truth in our politics. because obviously there are people who are getting diluted messages and the conspiracy theories stick. and for a couple reasons. one, conspiracy theories are most attractive to people who see the world through the prism of right and wrong. qanon is all about trump the good super hero vanquishing this evil, shadowy cabal. and by their definition, those who think are the deep state. so if i write in the "washington post" this is false, they view it as proof there is a coverup. and the third reason of course is that the conspiracy theorists are also people who adapt their beliefs as new facts come into view. when biden was inaugurated people were saying, oh, he's secretly in on the plan. like the doomsday cults say the world is going to end on october 4th and on the 5th they wake up and say, oh, it's going to be in three years. >> they have been so wrong so off. they just keep moving the goal line. in '94 when i first campaigned i would go through suburban neighborhoods. i drew up in middle class suburban type neighborhoods. and i realized a week or two in i wasn't going to organize by neighborhoods. you get your map. you can't do that. because people were already, in the words of the famous book that brian talking about, going alone. it was sort of starting to spread apart. even back in '94, people were sending around these crazy emails we have talked about before on the show. they were already sort of getting into their conspiratorial groups. and, man, it has just accelerated. again, we need to remind everybody, that was over a quarter century ago. and this is not new. it's just accelerated because of facebook and twitter. >> it has. and one of the lessons we've learned the last couple of months of really studying this and digging into it, it's not just crazy people sending emails which is the caricature of it. it has gone out to wine moms and yoga group. it started as innocuous online, it turned into something completely different, brian. that is part of the challenge of deprogramming, as you put it. you can't use that caricature. they wanted to use that with the mob, look at all the mobs of people with the crazy hats. no. there was a ceo, an olympic gold medalist. there are a lot of people in your neighborhood who probably subscribe to a lot of the beliefs that you think are nuts. >> this is important to solving the problem. if we misdiagnosis it astin foil hat basement dwellers. some people will be beyond repair. there are people who are simply not going to be salvageable. if we're going to have a politics based in reality, we need to understand there are yoga groups devoted to qanon. it's not the stereotypes we were always thinking of. this atomization of society where individuals are all alone. they are bowling instead of in leagues on their own. now they are tweeting together. they are in the communities not real world interactions but feel like these cardboard incident imitations. it's not like they are isolated in or this parents' basement and they need someone to talk to. they are talking to people online who are also radicalized. once we acknowledge that, we can start to fix the problem. we have to acknowledge some people are not going to be fixed. and some will not be brought out of the rabbit hole they have gone down the last four years. >> katty, i have talked about some being more susceptible to this than others. that's my tribe. itch grew up in southern baptist churches. it's something. tim carney talked about this and others have talked about it. you look at more regular church attenders and they aren't as extreme in your views. but you look at people who self-identify as evangelicals who may have gone to churches in the past, and they have a higher propensity for these conspiracy theories. and i really do think in part the reason why is because if you are -- we go to church. we would go to church sunday morning, sunday night, and wednesday. and you would be around people. and you throw up a crazy conspiracy theory around people like the second or third time you do it, people come up to you and go, buddy, come on. come on. that's crazy. let's talk about that for a second. because you have the socialization. you're not bowling alone. you're not facebooking alone. you're not twittering alone, tweeting alone. it is the atomization of society that are keeping these people alone. even people who we know who have respected jobs in the communities, some have fallen for the most bizarre conspiracy theories that suggest oprah and tom hanks are candles. cannibals and pedophiles. >> yeah. >> there are people among us who believe this. >> and every time we say it, it sounds crazy, right, that there is some satanic cannibal pedophile cult out there that qanon people think exist. conspiracy theories in themselves are not new. they have been around centuries. one professor said, look, some of us have a tendency to believe in conspiracy theories. everybody has some propensity to it. people who have gone for qanon have gone more extreme. it was so interesting what you wrote about this sense of belonging. you are in the uk. i wonder if it reminds of people who left to join jihad in syria. i remember the young girls who left east london and went out to syria and joined jihad. she said it is a sense of belonging. people who might be a big lonely, a bit of a misfit, and what joe was talking about evangelicals. you are in a community of people who believe the same. you are right and everybody else is right. people looked at you like a built of an outsider or outcast and now you have found your group. if there is a similarity here? if it is a bit like that, is it white supremacy in the way that islam was the driving force to driving people to jihad? >> yeah. i think when we diagnose this, there is right wing right wing militia groups. that is fundamentally different from the yoga group at qanon disciples. and i think the social isolation is definitely part of it. there are people who are social misfits drawn to this because the online community is their only community. they appear to be well adjusted. i interviewed one qanon disciple who has three kids in suburban atlanta, just started reading online, got it and fell down the rabbit hole. the reason i wrote this piece is the more we only think of these people as radical extreists the less likely we will be in stopping this poison from entering the political blood stream in the future. we have to understand it is not the crazy tin foil hat people who got radicalized and we can't treat everyone like that. the first group i talked about, the white supremacists and militia members, that's a group maybe you don't reach out to pause they are beyond reprehensible and have absolutely no chance of being brought back to reality, in some instances. if we diagnose who are the different people in this group and how they got there, it will create a nuanced approach. republicans need to stop peldzing conspiracy theories. they are metastasizing this disaster that will create more deadly consequences. january 6th will not be the last time we see this in my estimation. >> why would reasonable, rational people in middle america that, you know, suburban atlanta, wherever, why would they fall prey to this? they fall prey because they have people like josh hawley and ted cruz and donald trump lying to them repeatedly. and they numb them to the truth. >> and i think that they are bored and they find something they find fun. we have to be honest about this. people view politics as entertainment. donald trump was the entertainer in chief and conspiracy theorist in chief. >> joe, the conspiracy theory is donald trump won the election. now before it, coming up in less than two weeks, the senate will have a chance to vote and say whether or not they believe the conspiracy theory is true. they could suppress a lot of what brian is talking and writing about. it will be up to them. donald trump has quietly been sending people out to pressure some of the senators to stand by his side. right. >> we have seen what some of the state parties are saying supporting qanon. it's perhaps unlikely he's convicted. but they have one chance to say what they believe about this conspiracy theory that he won the election. >> but get this. state parties are punishing the 10 republicans -- >> yeah. >> -- who did not vote to overturn the election results. state republican parties and local republican parties are trying to censure people month did their jobs. the guy in michigan who just did what he was supposed to do and a ministerial act, he's out of his job. steve doocy in arizona, brian kemp in georgia. they are enemies of donald trump's republican party. because they didn't fall victim to these conspiracy theories. 64 federal courts said this was all a lie, that there was nothing there. and yet people are still like falling prey to this because the republican party in arizona, the republican party -- >> it's crazy. >> -- in georgia. the republican party in texas. the republican party in wyoming. they are trying to punish people for not engaging in sedition. that's where the republican party is. and, again, where are the adults in the republican party that are going to stand up and start punishing this type of behavior? because all they're doing is helping democrats. all they're doing. they're creating. in arizona, like i said, if you like the republican civil war in georgia, you're going to love the republican civil war in arizona because the same thing happening in georgia is now happening in arizona. the republican party is eating its own. and that turns out very badly for republicans. they're going after liz cheney. >> that's a mistake. >> talk to osama bin laden, right? don't screw with the cheneys. don't do it. don't do it! but the thing about kevin or steve or whatever his name is. the majority -- >> did trump call him steve? >> forgot his name. >> steve mccarthy in the house. he is not going to be able to get money from corporations. he's just not. liz cheney is the only respectable member in leadership who didn't, let's be very clear about this, who didn't vote to disenfranchise millions and millions of black voters in milwaukee county, wayne county, atlanta, georgia, in philadelphia. all the other republican leadership in the house voted to disenfranchise millions and millions of black voters. what pac, what corporation is going to give a dime to republicans who voted to take away the votes of millions and millions of black voters? bull connor never, ever did anything that was as nefarious. like taking away the voting rights of millions and millions of black voters. en kevin mccarthy voted to take away the voting rights of millions and millions of black persons. steve scalise voted to take away the voting rights of millions and millions americans. liz cheney didn't, and they're trying to get rid of liz cheney. although the of luxe, fellow. >> brian klaas. thank you very much. his new column is online for the "washington post". still ahead on "morning joe", the trump era takes down another moderate republican. senator rob portman will retire at the end of his term saying, quote, it's a tough time to be in public servant. >> he's not really a moderate. he's a conservative. plus, the latest on vaccine deployment in new york city and neighboring new jersey with mayor bill de blasio and governor phil murphy. you're watching "morning joe". we will be right back. right ba. ♪ ♪ we 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in 2022. and i know what you're saying, joe. . >> i don't understand. . >> i don't get it either. if it's harder, that's why we need you. stay in the game. >> if it's harder, we need you. . >> we need these people. >> even though people on the far left and right are screaming and howling, the senate is working like the senate is supposed to work. one side is taking a position. another side is taking a position. they're hammering it out. they're getting input. and they're reaching some sort of agreement. so with kristin cinema, hickenlooper, right romney, susan collins, lisa murkowski, joe manchin, i could go on and on and on. you've got all of these people there that are actually about 10 of them that could actually get good things done that most americans want. why leave now? >> yeah. this is a larger issue that we can talk about. obviously this morning you have a goo i in rob portman, a guy who is director of the omb, worked under george w. bush, a congressman and now a senator. i'm sure there are a lot of progress if's who don't like the way he votes all the time. he is a rational guy who wants to get things done. he is not a trumpist, loyalist or cultist, even though he voted with the president a lot. if you're a republican and you want to get something done and not just own the lib as the kind of person you want sitting in the senate. let's turn to associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson and host of "way too early", our buddy kasie hunt. good morning to you both. kasie, let's dig into rob portman, what it says about the body where he serves. >> yeah. honestly, you know, i think it's a sad day for the senate. this is a serious person. no matter what party you come from, he has focused and worked with democrats on important issues that maybe don't -- you know, we don't talk about here very often. don't rise to the top. he has done important work on sex trafficking. joe's right. he's not a moderate in terms of ideology. he is a moderate in temperament and approach. and fewer and fewer people like him are willing to stick around and stay in washington to get some of this tough work done. obviously, i think good minds can disagree. should they be hanging in to change things. the reality is that the trump base and a lot of people you were talking about a minute ago with brian klaas who believe conspiracy theories and who, you know, frankly seem disconnected from reality, those people are voting in republican primaries. and jeff flake said it when he left. he said i couldn't stay true to myself and run a campaign that would win. a republican primary campaign that would win. portman is in a likely stronger position, likely would have been fine if he decided to run for re-election. i think it reflects the level of misery and also a level of, a sense that there suspect going to be a coming back for the republican party for quite some time. what it has descended into with stkrufpl going to be where it stays. frankly, there are people -- good people who don't want to be part of that. >> yeah. joe, what do you think of the filibuster, republican filibuster? >> well, there have been a debate back and forth. the filibuster did not come down from heaven. founding fathers didn't put it in the original documents. and so we have seen both sides get rid of the filibuster for federal judges. then the republicans for the supreme court. now a lot of talk about getting rid of the filibuster overall. they just need to understand, and i have spent my entire adult life having to explain to people in the white house and on capitol hill, nothing is permanent in washington, d.c. the rule you set now will be used against you two years from now. so, yes, the democrats can get rid of the filibuster. they need to understand when the republicans take the place back over, if they do, then they're going to pass the 20-week ban on abortion were and not going to need 60 votes. just a simple majority. i'm preaching neither for or against it. >> joe, the fill pufter, as you said, is not written in the constitution. and i think democrats -- i think they should keep their it but not getting the filibuster off the table. as chuck schumer didn't take it off on the table and mitch mcconnell recognized that it wasn't going to get taken off the table. so now we'll proceed. a lot a time when the nation faces a lot of problems, a lot of overlapping problems. and needs its national legislature to be active, to do things, then, you know, if the senate is going to function, then great. let it function with the filibuster. but it's got to function. and it can't be, you know, just a black hole where any legislation, no matter how moderate, no matter if the democrats want it, then we don't want it. so it can't happen. and that, you know, if the senate becomes effectively just a sort of smaller and less efficient version of the house where everybody votes along party lines and the filibuster is sort of dead end for any sort of major legislation, then the filibuster has outlived its usefulness. you don't need it and you should get rid of it. if it can be the senate that we all remember, the senate the way it used to function, you know, when it was good or when it was better, then keep it. they do have to recognize there's a new majority leader, and it's not mitch mcconnell. it's chuck schumer. >> it's also a senate split down the middle, house split down the middle, more moderate democrat. there is a chance to get things done. but i agree, willie, with gene, that keep the filibuster but use it as leverage. with the possibility of getting rid of it if you have to get rid of it to pass legislation. i'm growing a little impatient, what are we, four, five, six days in, with all of these super heated headlines. i thought joe biden was from unity. and people from the left saying kristen cinema, she might as well be a republican. are you kidding me? this is how real legislation works. this is how politics is supposed to work when you don't have a personality cult. you have a back and forth. you have a give and take. you and i can be red sox and yankees fans and be for unity. unity as defined my the red sox and the yankees. don't, you know, patty each other up every time they play each other. and for god's sake, don't push zimmer down on the ground at the age he is. pedro, what are you thinking? you can say we call for unity. the yankees will start to score runs when the game starts and the red sox are going to try to score runs. my god, i want some of these people to grow up. i see what happened between mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer a positive side. banging heads behind closed doors. they came to a resolution. that's going to happen every couple days. and just because they're doing their jobs for their constituents doesn't mean there's not unity in washington, d.c. or doesn't mean at least we aren't moving to a higher level than we have been the past four years. >> he ya. let's hope so. amount of people, particularly in the democratic party, are out for blood after the trump years. they want some pay back on this. . >>er some. >> majority leader schumer won. mitch mcconnell threw in the towel after some of this. was it symbolic in some way? ultimately the majority leader did prevail. >> well, willie, it's a power play, right? with mitch mcconnell, it's always about power. and the legislative filibuster is for the minority. the central source of power in the senate. and there's a lot of power there. it also is about getting some leverage over schumer. if he could have had schumer pledge publicly not to do it, it likely would have infuriated people on the left. one person in particular, is thinking about primarying chuck schumer. that's his big problem with the left of the party. so he couldn't say yes to this. he was angry when joe manchin said i'm not going to support the filibuster. but they are giving him cover. i didn't say i would get rid of this. these people did. and he doesn't have the votes to get rid of it. this isn't a static thing. if republicans and mcconnell don't act in reasonably good faith the way they seem to be claiming at least in some ways they can to work with joe biden, they want to do big things. if they do obstruct for obstruction's sake because they want to be the ones to win elections, this may shift inside the democratic caucus. and then i think all bets are off. >> kasie, it's funny. i'm somer it's not funny to kristen sinema. i'm looking on twitter, hearing people attacking kristen sinema. she can just leave the party? right, what are you a republican in georgia? you have two democratic senators in john mccain and gold water's state. and you want them to leave? what, do you think you're going to get vera elected out there? it's like, seriously, when are people going to wrote up. and joe manchin, it's voting -- he's a democrat. >> last democrat from west virginia. >> he made democrats the majority party. he is in a state that donald trump won 68% to 29%. and these idiots are twitter who, yes, they are still in their mother's basement oplt left and the right cheating cheetos with the dust getting in their eye. how lucky they are to have mark kelly and kristen sisinema and e manchin. wait. they just put you in the majority and you want them to leave the party or a are attacking this 'em? it is insanity a week in. katty? i'm sorry, you said mika? >> yeah. alex did. but i love katty. >> oh, thank you, alex. okay, we will. kasie and then katty. go. he said you can do whatever you want. >> we're back to it. you're right, joe. look, if you want to win, hang onto the majority, you have to let the senators reflect the people that sent them there. and, yeah, if kristen sinema and mark kelly take more progressive positions they'll lose their elections. mitch mcconnell knows that. he has governed that way this entire time. >> and we saw this play out with abigail span berger. she came back and said you can criticize us moderates in the democratic party for not being progressive enough. if we take the positions aoc has taken, we are not going to get elected in red districts in virginia and then you don't have a majority anymore for the house. you are seeing it play out in the senate and the house. it's the way they will lose majorities. . >> elections have consequences >> sure do. >> joe biden is the president. he will be signing some executive orders. and the democrats get absolutely dropped in the house elections and under performed in the senate. i'm just talking math. if the democrats had a big year in 2020, if they had not done so poorly in legislative races, yeah, they would be able to move further to the left. as it is, they're going to have to make deals with moderate democrats. >> okay. >> it's math. >> we're going to take a break. coming up, we'll talk to mayor bill de blasio in new york city about the vaccine shortages as we tries to get the people of new york 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have. biggest snowflake with the smallest bone structure and hands i've ever seen for a sitting member of congress. seriously. the wind blows -- he shouldn't do that, for a lot of reasons. first of all, don't start an insurrection or sedition. if the wind blows too hard, that is going to snap in half. like a scarecrow. >> fragile. . >> he is tprapbl ill in so many ways. he is a snowflake. but, yeah, this nonsense. we talked about it last hour, willie. this guy gets -- writes op-eds on the front page of the new york post. and he gets book contracts, probably going to make millions off his books. and he's a common man whose first amendment rights are being trampled upon. . >> yeah. this is a theme, though. there is a reward for what he is doing somewhere out there. there is a reason he continues. there's a reason for all of this. nikki haley was on tv last night. she's thinking about raining in 2024, railing against the impeachment. it's outrageous. she said, believe it or not, of donald trump, just give this man a break. >> oh, my god. >> so clearly stay in line, hug donald trump, still, even though he's not president any more. even more broadly still in the republican party. >> he leads an insurrection. cops are killed. cops are beaten with american flags. they tell authorities they were just following the president's orders. they actually -- donald trump whips them into a frenzy against his own vice president, mike pence. mike pence, his wife and his family is trapped on capitol grounds. and they're trying to find him to kill him. and donald trump never calls, never checks on him. never says, hey, go over there. make sure pence is okay. they put a noose up. trump still is looking at the television set. and he's wondering why others aren't him aren't happy that the center of democracy in america and across the globe is being ransacked. being torn to sleds. capitol cops being beaten up on national television. being killed. being brutalized. and donald trump can't figure out why other people in the room aren't excited about this. and nikki haley says just leave him alone? wow. >> "washington post" eugene robinson is still with us. join the conversation. contributor mark barnacle mike barnicle and yamiche from pbs. he's confident anyone who wants one should be able to get it by the spring. >> i'm quite confident that we will be in a position within the next three weeks or so to be vaccinating people at the range of a million a day or in excess of that. i think with the grace of god and goodwill of the neighbor and the creek not rising, as the old saying goes, we may be able to get that to 1.5 million a day, rather than 1 million a day. but we have to meet that goal of a million a day. >> roughly when do you think anyone who wants one will be able to get it? summer? >> this spring. i think we will be able to do that this spring. but it will be a logistical challenge that exceeds anything we have ever tried in this country. but i think we can do that. i feel confident that by summer we're going to be well on our way to heading toward herd immunity and increasing the access for people who aren't on the list -- all the way going down to children and how we deal with that. but i feel good about where we're going. and i think we can get it done. >> right now, however, there are major speed bumps in administering the vaccine as the production appears to be slowing the process. in new york city, mayor bill de blasio said yesterday the city has the capacity to administer half a million doses a week but has not been able to because it is waiting for vaccine production to ramp up. de blasio further noted last week city officials had a goal of administering 300,000 doses last week but were only able to give 200,000 because of lack of supply. meanwhile in california, it will likely take almost the entire rest of the year to vaccine half of the state's 40 million citizens. the current pass of vaccinations has been about 122,000 doses per day. at that pace, only about 20 million californians would be fully vaccinated by thanksgiving. we will talk to mayor bill de blasio coming up on "morning joe". it is a frustrating situation for sure. >> let's wade through with the dean brown university school of public health. dr. ashish jha. for people who are wondering when their vaccine may be coming. they thought they were going to get it soon. now maybe not so soon. where is the breakdown? the pharmaceutical companies can't break this down fast enough? or it's not being distributed the right way once it gets to where it's going. >> good morning, willie. thanks for having me on. the production issing coulding along fine. but there are limits to the production as it has been set up. i think about a million doses a day is at the minimum of production. probably production is closer to 2 million a day. there is a hold up in many states in the distribution. states have gone it. they are sitting in nursing homes, assisted living facilities and hospitals and not getting in people's arms. i saw the clip from president biden. i agree we will see a pickup the next few weeks. we have to. we can't go at the pace we're going at. >> do you agree with president biden that the majority of the country, 75, 80 percent will be vaccinated by summertime and achieve herd immunity which means to most people as they are looking at their lives, this fall we could step back into some version of normalcy? . >> i do. i do. i think we will start seeing life get meaningfully better by mid to late spring. we won't be at herd immunity by then, you we will have a lot of people vaccinated. once you get to 50 plus percent vaccinated, life will start getting better. and certainly by summertime, anybody who wants a vaccine will be able to get one. and the vast majority should be able to. as long as we can build confidence for people to get vaccinated. >> doctor, you say by summertime. barnicle and i want to know is summertime defined by closer to opening day at fenway or is it like going into august, like later? because by august we're already out of the pennant race by august. i'm actually asking this seriously. i have kids going to camp in late june. we're trying to figure out what our summers look like, like millions and millions of americans. what do you think, early summer, mid summer? what? >> so there's no magic date, right. i think the question is what do you want to do and how risky is it. and there's going to be a little bit of wiggle room. the new team took over literally a week ago. and we need to get more details. the way i see it, by early summer, a lot of the things we value should be doable. i expect to have an outdoor barbecue without masks with my friends on july 4th. and i think that's right. sleepaway camp, early june might be hard. by later summer, it will be easier. with sleepaway camp, you have a bunch of people coming together, kids. so there's basic live a transition that's going to happen late spring into summer. and when the red sox are in the fight for the pennant, we may even be able to get back to fenway park in full capacity and be able to do a lot of things we value. >> it's really good to know we are going to be in full capacity again by 2023. thanks so much for that sad news. >> maybe before that. >> okay. so, doctor -- no, i was talking about the red sox being in the pennant race. i know a lot of people have this concern. got two kids who both have had covid, have some friends. we've gone so long without people in our circle having covid because we have really lived in a bubble. but, man, it really has just exploded. and friends and neighbors, all these people have covid. now they're on the other side of it. they are saying, okay, what does this mean. at the beginning we heard it might be three months immunity. then we heard six months immunity. a couple of months ago stories that came out that said, well, actually for sars, it is 17 years of immunity. but, you know, good friend of ours had it four, five months ago. his antibodies aren't even showing up on his antibody tests any more. so what is, and i know it is still sort of guesswork. but if somebody got covid in april, how long would that last through. based on best studies, best guess right now, how long would that last moving forward. >> yeah. it's a great question. and, look, as you said, there's a lot we don't know. let's talk about what we do know. what we do know is there's very good evidence that at least eight, nine months of protection is there afterwards. it's not that no one gets reinfected during that time, joe. it's just really rare. most people in that eight, month time window. after that, we don't know. we're still tracking these folks. we are still studying this. after infection, you probably do have immunity for a year or so. but it will start waning after that. this is why people previously infected still need to get vaccinated. vaccine immunity should be much more durable and stronger. but i do believe there is good evidence if you have been infected and you recovered at least for nine months, maybe out to a year, you should have pretty good immunity. you will be in reasonably good shape. i would still be careful when there's a raging pandemic. i wouldn't go back to normal and act like nothing happened. but at the same time there's no doubt you have a high degree of immunity. at least 9 to 12 months. >> so teachers in the country's third largest school district were scheduled to return to the classroom yesterday to prepare for the return of students next week. but on sunday the chicago teachers union voted in favor of a resolution to continue to work remotely instead. the chicago board of education had to order teachers and support staff for kindergarten through eighth grade to appear in person on monday to get ready to welcome back roughly 70,000 students for part-time in-school classes starting february 1st. after the vote, the district had said it pushed back the return of teachers and staff until wednesday to ensure we reach a resolution without a disruption to student learning. the union argued the return of teachers to classrooms should be phased in as staff receive the coronavirus vaccine. they also plan the safety plan falls short and different metrics would need to be in place. school staff eligible for vaccinations beginning yesterday, but it could take months as we have been reporting to vaccinate everyone. but consider what is happening in las vegas after a surge of student suicides. during the first nine months of the pandemic, the clark county school district has seen 18 student suicides, double the amount the district had in 2019. the youngest student to kill themselves was just 9 years old. the school district had installed an alert system in july after the sixth student death. the system monitors schools on ipads to look for mild to severe suicide risks. the system has generated over 3,100 alerts and is credited for saving the life of one 12-year-old boy. globally the pandemic has had an affect on student health, grades, and attendance. they have struggled to find the. it forced clark county school district's hand to partially reopen schools saying, quote, when we started to see the uptick in children taking their lives, we knew it wasn't just the covid numbers we need to look at anymore. we need to put our hands on our kids, to see them, to look at them. they've got to start seeing some movement. they've got to start seeing some hope. i couldn't agree more. i have seen this firsthand in all of our children. they are all so alone. >> it is awful for -- it's an awful challenge for children, mike barnicle, there is a balance to be struck. with the vaccines coming online, i don't see why we don't put teachers and educators at the front of the line, get them back in school. get kids back in school whether you're in clark county, nevada or cook county, illinois. it has to be -- and we said it for some time. don't open bars and restaurants and close schools. don't open casinos and close schools. in nevada, were the casinos closed? i don't know the answer to that. i'm guessing they were not closed. so if you're going to close churches and casinos and close schools, there's a priority problem there. >> you know, joe, the virus has done many things to our culture, our country, and the world. it's obvious. from here in the united states, well over 400,000 people are dead. but the biggest victims are still living, still around us, and they are our children. they have been stripped of education for nearly two years now. they will have lost two years of education. whether you're in the fourth grade or a junior in high school. that's a lot. you've lost a lot. and it's going to take a while for you to catch up if you ever indeed do catch up. and of course 9 tragedy is the lack of socialization. you're 12, 13, 14 years of age. you're trying to figure out how to make friendships, who you like, who you don't like, do they like me. that's all involved in this. and they have been stripped of those tools in their home. your right, the lack of socialization is a critical opponent of growing up. and as far as teachers and administrators getting the vaccine first, absolutely. we should have classrooms open. that's the place where kids are going to learn to grow and mature. but as we have been talking this morning and talking past this morning, talking about it for months now, we have basically 50 states of fusion. the united states, state by state, the administering of the vaccine, what time you can show up, which vaccine you will get. it is a massive state of confusion in almost every state after state after state, which begs the question, willie, i don't know whether you have thought about this but i increasingly am thinking bit. the federal government, with all of its resources that far outweigh the resources in most states, i wonder how long it's going to be before the federal government just comes in, takes over, fema, whatever, and they distribute the vaccine >> well, i think that's part of the idea with this $1.9 trillion plan that president biden has put out there. he is going to invoke the defense production act all the things president trump should have been doing the last year to get this going. especially couraging news from dr. jha, he believes it is going to get moving through the summer. as we talk about these kids and the isolation, we should remember even kids who have the resources, our children who have a laptop and who have wi-fi, it's hard enough on them. the isolation is hard enough on them. a lot of kids in this country, millions, who don't have access to wi-fi, who have been totally cut out of their classrooms, out of any social superb action for a year now. when it happened last march and for two three months we thought, let's survive this, get to the summer and back to normal. when you start talking about a year of isolation for any kid anywhere, that has real long-term impacts on with who they are, who they become, who they will be. as we saw so tragically in the story as you read about, it has the impact of costing some of them their lives. you just read about a 9-year-old, a 9-year-old, a 9-year-old who died by suicide. we've got to prioritize our schools in a way we have done a terrible job of prioritizing them so far. >> i think if we take a state by state analysis, it's very likely we will see an epidemic of suicides as this continues. the problem is we're still in the midst at the very worst of the coronavirus pandemic. and people, only of them, are still kind of, especially those who supported president trump, which is a lot of people, they are out there mixing and spreading the virus, not wearing masks. and the situation is getting worse on many, many levels. joe biden's cabinet continues to take shape. the senate expects to confirm blinken as the next secretary of state as soon as today after the senate foreign relations committee voted strongly in favor of his appointment yesterday. and yesterday the senate confirmed janet yellen as the first female treasury secretary. yellen spent years as a professor before entering politics as head of bill clinton's council of economic advisers in the late 1990s. from 2014 to 2018, she chaired the fed, playing a key role in the recovery after the great recession. pretty incredible. . >> yeah. steve radnor, overwhelming vote in favor of the next treasury secretary. what should we expect? >> look, she was a first rate choice. and you could see that in evidence by the very lopsided vote of the senate. 84-15 to confirm her. as mika read, she's the ultimate professional. she's the only person, not just a woman, any person to hold the chairman of the fed, chairman of the economic advisers, now secretary of the treasury. she pent her whole life on these issues. she is progressive in the sense of being to the left of center. but she is a very analytical person grounded in facts. she is the one who kept describing her time at the fed as taught driven, meaning she didn't come in with some ideological view. you had to raise interest rates or lower interest rates. she inspected it up and down. she came out with a position. and she's a straight shooter. a good person who you can have a direct conversation with. have a direct conversation back. so i think she was a superb choice. and i think she will be a superb secretary. >> so, steve, let's dig into some of your charts here. economic policy for president biden. he signed an executive order that will strengthen requirements around purchasing products made in the united states. a step in fulfilling biden's four-year buy american pledge, aimed at bolstering u.s. manufacturing. what does that look like practically, steve? >> practically speaking, this is as much a statement of intent of policy, of desire as it is a statement of we're going to turn around our foreign imports and have everything bought in america. just to give you a couple figures before we run to the charts, the federal government spends about $600 billion a year on stuff. and of that, about 5% is actually bought from foreigners. something like $30 million out of an economy that is over $20 trillion. so we are dealing in small numbers. this is governed also by trade rules that require us to behalf in a certain way so other countries have an opportunity as well. but if we look at the charts to see what the magnitude of the problem is we're talking about, what you can see on the first chart is our balance of trade. this is just our trading goods back and forth with the rest of the world. and you can see how our deficit has increased dramatically. it is $864 billion, about half of that with china. this in and of itself is not the worst of the economic problems -- >> hold on, hold on, hold on. i thought donald trump was going to be a champion and he was e go egg to get rid of the trade deficit. i knew that he caused an explosion in the federal debt and the deficits. for mr. buy american, america first, and i'm going to kick every country's as that gets in america's way, this is quite a shock. are you saying at the end of donald trump's presidency he set the record for america's biggest trade deficit ever? >> i am actually saying that. and mr. buy america did -- >> wow. >> the tariffs were a terrible idea. the day before he left office he did something on this whole buy america thing that president biden did yesterday. yes, i am saying that he had no impact on the 2r5eud deficit. it's actually worse than it was before. and tariffs hurt american consumers. it was not a successful trade policy. that is a very fair statement. >> okay. next? >> but to understand -- but the problem is real. not in the sense of just a trade deficit but the impact on our workers. and you can see that most specifically in the manufacturing sector, which is really what biden is heavily talking about. so the number of manufacturing jobs we have in this country peaked at 18 million back in 1997. today it's 12 million. you can see the steep decline leading up to the great financial crisis, extremely steep decline over the two years of 2008 and 2009. and you can see it gradually coming back. so, again, president trump's claim that he brought back manufacturing to your point, joe, you can see the increases through his term were nothing more than what had been started pack at the end of the great recession. and then the red bar shows last year we did have a drop. we are obviously in the middle of a pandemic, so we understand that. the bottom line is we have 12 million manufacturing jobs then. we had 18 million in 199 7. and the workforce is obviously much, much larger. it's about 20% larger than it was pack then. back then. to turn to one other issue he emphasized union membership. i think we all know union membership is declining. let's talk about how much it's declining. it was 18 million people in 1983. and today it is 14 million. you can see the yellow line which shows the people members of unions dropped from 16% to 11%. and that's also what joe biden has tried to rectify in the order yesterday where he talked about union jobs repeatedly through it. it is an important statement of intent. with a government that basic live pies $30 billion a year from foreigners and goods out of a $20 trillion economy, this is not going to make a meaningful impact on the number of jobs or union jobs we have in this economy. >> all right. steve, as always, thank you so much. we really appreciate you being on the show. willie, before we go to break, i need your help with something. i'm confused >> no. this was so good, joe. >> you don't know what i'm talking about. >> i'm just worried. you get a day off and then you're all like this. >> i have time to read the twitter a little bit. couple things. first of all, this pillow guy, this mr. pillow guy. >> sure. >> whatever his name is. he's banned forever from twitter, right? . >> right. . >> i get that. mr. pillow is spreading conspiracy theories. >> now, come on. >> what get. >> no, no, no. >> mr. pillow, like somebody wrote that mr. pillow was dating the great -- >> no, joe. >> jane krakowski. >> definition of fake news. >> she never did that, right? >> jane said she never met the guy, didn't know who he was. he said he had never been to the west village or the hamptons. i have a theory i don't know if i'm willing to make public yet >> please don't. >> she is so smart, so funny. maybe her friend tina fey pushed it as a gag. >> that's funny. that could be it. >> that could be it. so mr. pillow is suing whoever printed that stuff up for like $75,000. let me just say -- >> that's the least of your problems, mr. pillow. . >> mr. pillow is getting sued for a billion dollars. mr. pillow should pay them for spreading that rumor. by the way, mika and i, big peacock fans. >> we are! >> we can't just get enough. >> wait, i have news. . >> we keep going back to "30 rock". first of all, jack dony, greatest character in the history of american television. and i think one of the top three characters. maybe homer and shakespeare stumbled over a couple -- >> yes. . >> but tina fey's writing. my god. amazing. >> every day, every line. it's just amazing stuff. >> i just want -- i have some news for jeff shell. we have an 11-year-old with us in your family. >> he ya. . >> and she asked me, do we have peacock? >> wow! >> and i was like, oh, yeah, it's hit the little ones. they all love the peacock. so that's good. >> jane krakowski is great in unbreakable kimmy schmidt. she's great in everything, by the way. last night my kids and i were watching, this is coincidence but let's continue to appreciate her. she has a new game show, "name that tune." she is definitely great in that. she is definitely not dating the my pillow guy. >> she didn't date mr. pillow. i tweeted a couple weeks ago that jack donahue was one of the great characters. >> he is. >> and somebody tweeted at me, joe, what are you wearing a tux? it's after 6:00. what am i, a farm senator i got the jokes back. farmers wear tuxes. it's just a funny line. >> up next, democratic senator chris coons joins us. as senators prepare to swear in in the second impeachment trial of donald trump. the second! you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. oe". we'll be right back. in a recent clinical study, patients using salonpas patch reported reductions in pain severity, using less or a lot less oral pain medicines. and improved quality of life. that's why we recommend salonpas. it's good medicine. ...and they found themselves in a magical land. and then what happened? where's our family from? was he my age? so nana and pops eloped? ...and then what happened, daddy? well, before us, there were your great, great, great grandparents. turn questions you've always had into stories you can't wait to share; with ancestry. i'm a 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time, ask how to get a $500 prepaid card when you upgrade. switch today. at some point, give the man a break. i mean, move on. if you are truly about moving on, move on. the idea they are going to do impeachment, that is not going to bring our country together. that's only dividing our country. >> i just can't. how does she do it? nikki haley, a potential 2024 presidential hopeful. just wants former president trump to be given a break. really? nikki. democratic chris coons of delaware. should we give donald trump a break? he's been through a lot, says nikki haley. >> that's a remarkable statement by a former governor haley of south carolina. the break that i have been looking forward to and i got, i looked up and there were no 3:00 a.m. tweets. there were no direct threats to our democracy or public. there was a press conference where people told truths and talked about solving problems. i almost don't know what to do with myself. i now have separate channels on tv for news, comfy, and horror. and i used to get all three out of the daily twitter feed of president trump. >> so senator coons, let's talk bit, because i think some people still need to be reminded. there's been this fog of disinformation in the last even two weeks about why you believe an impeachment trial is appropriate for this president. what you think he did to lead this to point and why you think it is important to pursue the conviction of a man who is no longer in office. >> well, willie, there's new evidence coming out every day about the things president trump did to spread baseless lies that he had won an election that he had lost and to try and subvert and undermine the rule of law and the process of our democracy. reporting just in the last few days, that at the last minute a commitment to resignen masse by leadership is the only thing that prevented trump from firing the acting attorney general and replacing him with a more pliant doj leader that would file baseless lawsuits in the supreme court. frankly, the only thing i need to know, in the midst of an assault on our capitol where thousands of armed angry and rioting supporters of president trump were beating capitol police officers in one case bludgeoning a capitol police officer to death, and breaking into the capitol and threatening the congress and trying to stop the certification of an electoral vote. at that moment, president trump was gleeful and declined requests to dispatch the national guard and took two action to restrain his supporters. and made no effort to check on the safety of his own vice president or the leaders of congress. that alone to me is evidence enough to convict on the charge that was presented to the senate yesterday. i look forward to hearing more evidence. but bluntly, i don't think this is a hard case to make. that moment, which i can't believe any of my colleagues have forgotten, just a few weeks ago struck me as overwhelming suggestion and evidence that we had a president not committed to the safety and security of congress, the capitol police, and the democratic process. >> is it important to you, senator coons, beyond conviction for impeachment as you said is warranted to prevent donald trump from holding federal office again? that's one of the concerns from a lot of people as you know inside that body that he will come back, that he will run again in 2024. do you think based on what he did around the attack on the capitol, around all these lies he told about what happened in the election, that he should not serve again? >> that is certainly my view. to me, there has to be accountability. and that's the accountability tool the constitution gives us. i am also very clear that we are in the middle of a dangerous, even disastrous moment in modern american history. as many as 100,000 americans will die of this pandemic in the coming month. and president biden is doing everything he can to deliver a competent, focused, science-based response to this pandemic. but it has spiralled so badly out of control in the months since the election when former president trump utterly failed to act as president. he spent the time since november tweeting, golfing, and spreading conspiracy theories. president biden spent the last two months preparing to become president. and he is already having an impact on the trajectory of this pandemic. but we need to hold president trump accountable for his actions. and we need to move forward and confirm the cabinet and make progress on delivering the relief the american people need and deserve. >> senator, we have yamiche alcindor connected. yamiche? >> good morning, senator coons. my conversation is based on the one i have been having with legal experts. he could come to the senate trial, demand to be heard and speak on the senate floor. how concerned are you about former president trump possibly coming and turning into this a spectacle and using this trial to really continuing to spread disinformation, as well as possibly if he's not convicted talk about the fact that he was exonerated? how worried are you about the unintended consequences that might come from this trial? >> yamiche, i am concerned that republican colleagues of mine are inclined to acquit him and that the consequences of his a quilts and his then having a bigger voice and a more disruptive voice to spread disinformation in our country about the legitimacy of the 2020 election, i am concerned about that and about those consequences. i think we need to find a way to deliver accountability. my hope is as we are sworn in today to serve as if we were jurors, as the deciding body in an impeachment trial, that my republican colleagues will reflect on the gravity of what happened here just a few weeks ago. yamiche, there are still thousands of national guard troops surrounding our capitol. we are still meeting behind a barbed wire eight foot tall barrier. i think every day as we go into work at the capitol, we are reminded of what happened and the consequences of spreading lies to the american people. i hope that my colleagues will listen to what senator romney so forcefully said on the floor the night of january 6th. the best answer is to tell them the truth. >> i'm sorry, ma'am? >> would you vote to let president trump speak during his senate trial? >> i haven't thought about that. and i would have to weigh it. there is a right to be heard and to confront one's accusers. that's fundamental to our legal system. and although an impeachment trial is a unique sort of thing, because think about it. all of us are both witnesses and jurors, for example, in this instance. i would have to think about that. my gut instinct would be of course to allow him to speak in his own defense. >> all right. senator chris coons, before you go, tell us about an effort between you and chris van holland for eugene goodman. hopefully to receive the congressional gold medal of freedom? >> that's right. it is a special way we recognize great americans. officer goodman, because of his quick thinking, because of his training and because of his personal bravery, deflected the movement of this angry mob and prevented them from storming into the senate chamber just as the senators and vice president were being escorted out. there were many capitol police who conducted themselves honorably that day. there are two who died as a result of this tragic incident. eugene goodman is an officer we can all thank and celebrate for his service as we thank all the capitol police. >> for sure. senator chris coons, thank you so much. and coming up, new jersey has so far administered more than half a million initial doses of the coronavirus vaccine. but with nearly 2 million residents signed up to receive it, governor phil murphy said his state needs the federal government to provide more, a lot more. he joins the conversation next on "morning joe". xt on "morning e"jo don't worry, julie... coughing's not new. this woman coughs... and that guy does, too. 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is working and give us insight into what that looks like down the road. >> quickly, do you want to be able to go to manufacturers yourself? >> that's not going to help anything. that's a huge mistake. >> okay. >> absolutely a mistake. any governor that says otherwise is wrong and they know it. look, we shouldn't -- this shouldn't be "the hunger games" like it was with ppe. that was ridiculous. and we all had to play that game. >> yeah. >> we were all in this together. governors there in this together. we just need insight from the federal government and the manufacturers. >> that was utah governor spencer cox on the need for state leaders to have more insight into the vaccine manufacturing process after what he says they were put through to get personal protective equipment. he said it was like "the hunger games". joining us now is new jersey democratic governor phil murphy. you know, i want to jump to the vaccine shortage and the struggles there in just a moment. but first, given that there are shortages in the vaccine, how is your state doing as it pertains to the coronavirus? officials are saying it's actually worse than some parts of the country. >> good morning. i think we are, and i'm knocking on wood as a say this, i think we are in a plateau now. our cases, the rise has begun to sort of go a little bit side ways. our hospitalizations are down. as i say, i'm but folks have generally continued to do the right thing, and we're passed the holidays. the weather certainly hasn't gotten warmer, so that's still working against us. but we are, i think, slowly but surely getting to a slightly better place. >> and are schools opened or closed in new jersey. >> it's a mix because we do it by district and we have hundreds of them. the biggest category right now is hybrid. some combination of in person and remote, then remote and about 80 of them are all in. my hope is that sooner or later we get the supply of doses that will allow us to open up to educators and get a whole lot more of our schools then. >> let me pick up on that in terms of vaccinations. we asked a few minutes ago a public health experts where he sees the problem in terms of cities. why aren't all those people lined up waiting for the vaccine getting what they need right now? >> well, willy, we don't have enough time. and we're not a state that is going to run this based on what gets in line first. we're going to remin an appointments-based system. we have two million folks preregistered. we opened up the vaccination eligibility to two types of people. one type are health care workers and staff that are helping us beat the pandemic and the other are most vulnerable. but the short answer is we need supply. i think they're doing everything they can. i'm sure this is going to get cured sooner rather than later. >> the pharmaceutical companies are making a lot of this stuff and they're making it as soon as they can. where would that be? where would you wave it? >> i'm not sure i have insight in terms of the supply chain. i do know that, that we are not going to wait to build our distribution infrastructure until we have the supplies. we have 270 something locations around the state that are up and running to distribute this vaccine. we just need more of it. i'm assuming that the president is invoking the defense production act will have a big impact, a positive i this, as we should have been as a nation from day one. i can guarantee the biden administration is now, and i'm confident in some number of week this is is going to get to a better place. >> governor, mike has a question for you. mike? >> new jersey isn't any different than any of the other 49 states around you. the distribution of the vaccine is filled with confusion for many people. so i'm wondering, seeing that the president has already declared that this is a war against the virus, would it be helpful to new jersey and every other state if the federal government came in and ran the war. in other words, sat on this to the point where they could tell you how much vaccine you're going to get, they would be helpful in terms of personnel to distribute the vaccine. do you think that would be helpful or harmful to what you're doing now? >> there is no question it would be helpful and the instincts, the moves the biden administration have made in the first six days have been game changers in two respects. one is the obsession that public health creates economic health and secondly a consistent national strategy. we've had good partnership with fema from day one on this. they came and helped us as far back as march in terms of standing up testing locations. the only footnote on my absolute answer is if the feds come in and help us with distribution, they've got to come in with doses. so, in other words, our challenge is not right now distribution locations, manpower, options for our citizens to get the vaccine. the constraint right now is supply. but if the feds come in, whether it's fema or some other branch, and they're full bore partners and they bring doses with them, that's hugely helpful, no question. >> all right. gene robinson, next question. >> governor, some states have actually had to cancel appointments for getting the vaccine because of the supply problem. you know, have you had that problem in new jersey, number one? and number two, in terms of your visibility how far ahead are you able to see in terms of supply? today, tomorrow, next week? how far ahead can you go? >> yeah. so, gene, we have had some amount of having to shut down a location here or there. that's something we want to minimize as you can imagine. and our visibility is, you know, we're plus or minus 100,000 first doses a week. we probably need two or three times that. and i'm confident. again, with the team that's on the field right now, i have supreme confidence we're going to get there. but we're not going to get there next week or maybe even the week after. this will take some number of weeks, but we have visibility and confidence around the amount we're getting. it just isn't enough and god willing that changes sooner rather than later. >> all right. new jersey governor phil murphy. thank you so much. we appreciate your leadership all through this pandemic. and still ahead, we will talk to new york city mayor bill de blasio about his city's struggle to get enough doses of the vaccine. we're back in just a moment. ♪ ♪ when you drive this smooth, you save with allstate the future of auto insurance is here you've never been in better hands allstate click or call for♪♪ quote today in a year of changes. don't take chances on your taxes. be 100% certain with jackson hewitt. we'll get your taxes done right, guaranteed. ♪♪ >> man: what's my safelite story? we'll get your taxes done right, guaranteed. i spend a lot of time in my truck. it's my livelihood. ♪ rock music ♪ >> man: so i'm not taking any chances when something happens to it. so when my windshield cracked... my 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february 8th, so a little over a week from now, giving both sides time to prepare their cases and the senate time to confirm president biden's cabinet appointees. we also learned that senator president protemp, the longest serving member of the chamber of the majority side patrick leahy will preside over the trial. leahy was next in line of chief justice john roberts declined. >> i understand roberts says, i can't do it. i'm going to be taking a smoke so i can't do your impeachment thing. but shouldn't they find like a judge in the d.c. circuit or something other than a democrat, any democrat who already voted to impeach donald trump a year ago? i mean, i'd be saying the same thing. my god, what would we be saying if ron johnson or john cornan or lindsey graham for a republican who voted against impeachment were running things. you can't have somebody, you know, running your impeachment trial that voted to impeach him a year ago or voted to acquit him a year ago, i don't think. >> it certainly gives republicans ammunition to say what you just said, which is that the judge can't serve on the jury of a trial. john roberts says, you know, i just can't do this again. i don't have time. but this is technically the way it should go out if the supreme court justice -- the chief justice can't sit on this trial, but it does give the appearance certainly that, you know, a person that's already thinks this man is guilty, this president should be impeached gives you the impression this is a partisan legislation. but republicans will definitely seize on it. let's talk about the strategy will be. house democrats pouring over hundreds of hours to build their case that donald trump incited the capitol attack. one ood under consideration is to produce a video that shows how they reacted before the attack and that democrats are particularly interested in this video produced by the online forum just security. >> to the capitol! >> yeah! >> we're going to the capitol! >> take the capitol! >> take the capitol! >> take the capitol right now! >> so you can hear that video. the crowd in the hours before the capitol is attack listening to president trump's speech at the ellipse saying we're going to take the capitol, storm the capitol. obviously they were inspired by the president. obviously it wasn't just january 6th. it was in the two months leading up. all the conspiracy theories he was pushing to suggest that he actually won the election. >> yeah. and actually even, willie, i have been hearing the people from the management team that they will be looking at the videos after, too, where he called them great patriots and said he loved them, where he didn't denounce them. asked them to go home, but it was not a repudiation of what he did. that will be included as well. the democrats do want to broaden it out more to the president's role in trying to steal the election more generally. that video is interesting because you have heard people who are in the crowds kind of defend themselves saying, well, we couldn't actually hear what the president was saying. the sound quality was terrible and we didn't know he was telling us to go down to the capitol and fight for country because we just didn't hear it. you very clearly hear the president say certain phrases that then get picked up directly by the crowd and almost kind of relayed to the back of the crowd. that's why that video is going to be so important, because it's the president's words that then get echoed exactly by the crowd before they go and storm the capitol. >> coming up, mayor bill de blasio says new york is ready to launch a massive vaccination program. the problem is he doesn't have enough shots. the mayor joins us straight ahead with the very latest on this serious roadblock. but first let's go to bill with a check on some severe weather overnight. bill? >> yeah. good morning to you, miikka. sad news outside alabama. one fatality from a tornado that struck close to midnight last night. this looks like a strong tornado. we have seen pictures of houses that just look like they have been destroyed. people have survived. 17 people have been rushed to the hospital. 11 people were treated. look at that picture right there. you can't even tell what that was beforehand. and this storm system has weakened. we're no longer looking at any tornado threat. a second wave of first responders is combing through this area to see if they can help out anybody else. let's turn to the cold side of this storm. we had an epic snowstorm last night. omaha had a foot of snow. des moines 10 to 12 inches of snow. now moving over the top of chicago and the northeast later on today. three big storms on the weather map. the first one is heading toward the east coast. philadelphia to new york city and new england later on tonight. it is snowing in las vegas on the strip this morning of all places. that's the second storm. and then a huge monster storm is coming into california later on tonight. as far as know goes, 2 to 4 inches later on tonight, so give yourself extra time to drive home. so, yeah, a very active weather pattern this morning. the big headline is the tornado and the deadly aftermath in areas of alabama. a shoveling and plowing going on in front of wrigley field, home of the chicago cubs. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. they know exactly which parking lots have the strongest signal. i just don't have the bandwidth for more business. seriously, i don't have the bandwidth. glitchy video calls with regional offices? yeah, that's my thing. with at&t business, you do the things you love. our people and network will help do the things you don't. let's take care of business. at&t. ♪ ♪ we made usaa insurance for veterans like martin. when a hailstorm hit, he needed his insurance to get it done right, right away. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa among my patients, i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry 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claiming there is growing evidence that the january 6th attack on the capitol by a pro-trump mob was a false flag operation and suggested it was orchestrated designed to discredit president trump, his supporters and all conservative republicans. this is such a stretch. >> well, it's a lie. >> it's unbelievable. the resolution also condemns the betrayal by the ten house republicans who voted to impeach president trump. in hawaii an official with the state's republican party resigned this past weekend, taking responsibility for highly criticized tweets defending supporters of the qanon conspiracy theory. the vice chair of communications exited after the official hawaii gop twitter account shared a since deleted thread that read, in part, we should make it abundantly clear the people who subscribed to the q fiction were largely motivated by a sincere and deep love for america. patriotism and love of county should never be ridiculed. meanwhile, former senator jeff blake and cindy mccain, the widow of john mccain, for opposing trump. and the republican party in texas drew criticism over the weekend for using its glow began we are the storm on publicity materials and its twitter account, which critics say links the party to qanon. according to the houston chronicle, it is widely available within the movement. the words are identical to phrases used by followers on the radical qanon conspiracy theory, which is listed as a domestic terrorist threat by the fbi. the texas group has denied any connection to qanon and says the slogan comes from a favorite poem of party chairman allen west, which is called ode to qanon. >> oh, my gosh. >> let's bring in the host of "the power corrupts" podcast. brian, your latest piece in "the washington post," it is entitled "why is it so hard to deprogram trump conspiracy theorists." you write, with the rise of social media, one can be alone but feel part of a group. and some of those groups are glued together by unhinged beliefs. many had found a digital community to augment or replace their offline one. we can no longer pretend that conspiracy theorists are beneath our attention. bringing them back to reality will be different. we need to at least accurately diagnose who has the poison. and that means acknowledging those that sympathy with capitol insurrections, some are your neighbors, and given this conspirator y'all thinking, they aren't likely to change their minds any time soon. >> wow. >> you know, this is a great piece. and it should really be read in tandem with anne applebaum's. i completely agree with anne. it's always been any experience that if you can't move people to your side over something that would have been in the past, you know, the clinton impeachment or the 2000 recount or the iraq war, just wait long enough and find other areas to find compromise, common ground, and work together. in this case, though, you are right. you are talking about a set of deeply held conspiracy theories that these state republican parties are clinging to. you would think arizona republicans would have learned from georgia republicans. in texas, they turned their party over to wing nuts, to crack pots, to conspiracy theorists. >> yeah. i mean, i think the big point here is that it's very, very difficult to deprogram conspiracy program believers for a variety of cognitive reasons because also it is very social and people are finding fun in it. but that doesn't let state officials off the hook. we need a coalition of truth in our politics because obviously there are people who are getting diluted messages. and those stick for a couple reasons. one is that conspiracy theories are most atacted to people who have a world view where they see the world through right and wrong. it is all about trump the superhero against this shadowy cabal. the fact that people who debunk conspiracy theories are, by their very definition, people who the conspiracy theorists think is the deep state. the third is that the conspiracy theorists are also people who adapt their views. when biden came in, some people said, oh, he's secretly in on the plan. it is unfalsiunfalsifiable. it is like the doomsday cults that say the world is going to end on october 4th. it doesn't happen, and they wake up and say, we just miscalculated. it will happen in three years. >> i mean, they have been so wrong so often, and they just keep moving the goal line. i would go through suburban neighborhoods. i grew up in, you know, middle class suburban type neighborhoods. and i realized like about a week or two in that i wasn't going to be able to organize by neighborhood. you know how you get your map? you can't do that because, you know, people were already, in words of a famous book that brian talked about, bowling alone. that even back in '94 it was starting to sort of spread apart. back in '94, people were sending around these crazy e-mails that we have talked about on the show, that they were getting into their conspiratorial groups. and, man, it has just accelerated. but, again, we need to remind everybody that was over a quarter of a century ago. this is not new. it has just accelerated because of facebook and twitter. >> it has. one of the lessons we learned is really studying this and digging into it. it is not just crazy people sending e-mails. it is the caricature of it. it is because of facebook, it's gotten out to wine moms and facebooks. maybe something that started innocuous online that turned into something different. that's part of the challenge you write of deprogramming, is that you can't use that caricature. look at all these crazy people with their hats and all that stuff. no, there were ceos in there, realtors. there was an olympic gold medalist in there. there isn't a fringy thing anymore. there are some people in your neighborhood that probably subscribe to the views you think are nuts. >> yeah. i think this is so important to solving the problem because if we misdiagnose it, then we don't reach out to the people in our communities and bring them back to reality. some people will be beyond repair, right? some people will not be salvageable. if we are going to have a politics based in reality, we need to understand there are yoga groups devoted to qanon. as joe was saying with the bowling alone issue, individuals are all alone. they're bowling instead of in leagues on their own. now they're tweeting together. they are in these communities that are not real world interactions, but they feel like these cardboard imitations. they feel like they have a community. it is not like they're isolated in their parents basement and they need someone to talk to them. they are talking, but they're talking to people online that are also radicalized. we do need to acknowledge that some people are not going to be fixed and some people will not be brought out of the rabbit hole that they have gone down for the last four years. >> coming up, donald trump steps out of the white house and into a company in crisis. "the washington post" has new reporting on the serious financial troubles facing the ex-president. 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well, see this handsome man, his name was william. and william fell in love with rose and they had a kid. his name was charles and charles met martha... isn't she pretty? yeah. republican senator of ohio won't be seeking re-election in 2022. in announcement yesterday, portman said the country has become increasingly polarized over the past few decades, making it difficult to find common ground. >> honestly, it's gotten harder and harder to breakthrough the partisan gridlock and make progress on substantive policy issues. and that has contributed to my decision. >> he joins fellow republican senators pat toomy and richard burr of retiring from the senate. >> i don't understand. >> that's why we need you. stay in the game. >> and by the way, willie, we're seeing right now play out, you know people on the far left and far right are screaming and yelling and howling, the senate is working like the senate is supposed to work. they are taking a position. another side is taking a position. they're reaching some sort of agreement. so we have said it a million times. mark kelly with hickenlooper, with susan collins, with lisa murkowski, with joe manchin, i mean, i could go on and on and ond. you have got all of these people there that are actually, about ten of them, that could actually get good things done that most americans want. so why leave now. >> yeah. i mean, this is a larger issue we can talk about. you have an established republican. a guy who was director of the omb, worked under george w. bush who was a congressman and now a senator and a guy who is conservative. there are democrats and progressive who don't like the way he votes all the time. he is a rational guy who wants to get things done. he is not a trumpist or a loyalist or a cultist, even though he voted with the president a lot. it seems to me if you are a republican and want to get things done and not just own the libs. let's bring in capitol hill correspondent and host, kasie hunt. let's dig into rob portman a little bit about not just his decision but what it says about the body where he serves. >> yeah. honestly, i think it's a sad day for the senate. this is a serious person. no matter what party you come from, he has focussed and worked with democrats on important issues that maybe don't -- you know, that we don't talk about here very often that don't rise to the top. he's done important work on sex trafficking. joe is right. he's not a moderate in terms of ideology, necessarily, but he is a moderate in terms of temperament and approach and fewer and fewer people like him are willing to stick around and stay in washington to get some of this tough work done. obviously, i think good minds can disagree about what these people should be doing. but the reality is that the trump base and a lot of those people that you were talking about a minute ago with brian class who believed conspiracy theories and who, frankly, seem disconnected from reality, those people are voting in republican pry tirs. jeff flake said it when we left. he said, i can't stay true to myself. portland is in a different position, likely a stronger position, likely would have been fine if he decided to run for re-election. but i thit it reflects a level of misery but also a sense that there isn't going to be a coming back for the party for quite some time and what it descended into for donald trump is going to be where it stays. and frankly there are good people who don't want to be part of that. >> coming up, when it comes to the covid vaccine, the demand is there. the supply? not so much. mayor bill de blasio joins us with the struggle to protect millions of people. we're coming right back. ming ri. nicorette knows, quitting smoking is hard. you get advice like: try hypnosis... or... quit cold turkey. kidding me?! instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette your journey requires liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. wow. that will save me lots of money. this game's boring. only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. want to make a name for yourself in gaming? then make a name for yourself. even if your office, and bank balance are... far from glamorous. that means expensing nothing but pizza. your expenses look good, and your books are set for the month! ...going up against this guy... and pitching your idea 100 times. no, no, no! no. i like it. -he likes it! ...and you definitely love that. intuit quickbooks helps small businesses be more successful with payments, when you switch to xfinity mobile, you're choosing to get connected payroll, banking and live bookkeeping to the most reliable network nationwide, now with 5g included. discover how to save up to $300 a year with shared data starting at $15 a month, or get the lowest price for one line of unlimited. come into your local xfinity store to make the most of your mobile experience. you can shop the latest phones, bring your own device, or trade in for extra savings. stop in or book an appointment to shop safely with peace of mind at your local xfinity store. the pharmaceutical and biotech company moderna found its vaccine appears to protect against the new more infectious variant of the virus found in the u.k. and south africa. the company said it will still test whether adding a booster dose in addition to its two dose regimen could protect even more against the new strains. and now another new more contagious strain of the virus first detected in brazil in december has been confirmed in minnesota. as for the race to vaccinate the country, production appears to be slowing in the process. new york city mayor bill de blasio says the city has the ability to administer half a million doses a week but has not been able to because it is waiting for the vaccine production to ramp up. and mayor bill deblas sew joins us now. what are you hearing about when you are going to get more? >> well, we're not, miikka. it is amazing to tell you we could be doing a half million vaccinations a week. so far, we have done 650,000 vaccinations. that's the equivalent of the entire population of portland, organ. that's the good news. but the bad news is we could be doing so much more. i want to do 24-hour sites all over the city. but we're not getting a clear message from the manufacturers. and i'm just hoping and i believe in president biden. i believe he wants to move this process. but i'll tell you, it is going to take him using the defense production act. >> yeah. >> demanding that a lot of pharmaceutical companies get into this together, breaking down those silos and doing something different if we're going to be able to do this. i've got 100,000 second doses that right now are sitting on the shelf. they can't be used for weeks. and what i would ask of the president is order governments all over the country just take those second doses and start using them right now because even a first dose give folks 50% protection. think about senior citizens. i was with a 97-year-old woman in queens last week. and for her she was scared to death of the coronavirus. and that first shot to her literally meant she was going to live. she was going to get to be with her family. emotionally and medically, we got to get people that first shot, no matter what. >> well, and what about teachers and first responders? how are you doing accommodating the need there? because kids need to be in school so badly. >> yeah. look, thank goodness we have been able to open up our schools. we do testing, constant cleaning, face masks. but i want to see our educators and school staff vaccinated as quickly as possible. but again we just don't have the vaccine. i mean, i am hundreds of thousands of doses short for this week we're in now. and think about -- we're the greatest country in the world. i feel that. we all feel that. but i'm certain there is more capacity to produce vaccine out there, but it's not happening unless the federal government takes it over aggressively. for some reason president trump wouldn't do that. i know joe biden has the decisive feeling about this to actually go out and do something. >> it is good to see you. we talked to the mayor of new jersey a few minutes ago. he needs more doses, just like you do. as you talk to people along the supply chain, where is the problem in your view. it has been interesting to hear different points of view on this this morning. is it just they're not making enough or it's not getting to where it needs to go. >> three things: they're not making enough. and i think it means bringing other pharmaceutical companies into this. every company that could be helping to produce vaccines should help under federal orders. some have gone to the places that need it but just don't have the ability to distribute it as quickly. dish the ball to whoever has got the hot hand. if someplace can do it really fast, get the vaccines there first, back fill for the other places. and the third is the second doses. if you are sitting on top of 100,000 of second doses i'm not allowed to use even though no one can possibly use them for weeks, that doesn't make sense. let's cut into that. >> mr. mayor, you mentioned a minute ago that our schools in new york city are among the safest places to be. that was a refreshing fact given we weren't sure what it was going to look like when you were going to reopen the schools. what do you say to the president of the teachers union who told "the wall street journal" a few days ago, i'm not sending my teachers back in until they can get vaccinated first and he even cast doubt on next school year, the fall, whether or not schools could open then. >> we're coming back in september full strength. i don't have a doubt in my mind. with the kind of goals that president biden has set for vac sin nation, with our ability to vaccinate half a million people a week. do the math. and the johnson & johnson vaccine, which is only one dose, no question in my mind we're coming back strong in september in person. in the meantime, willie, i want to get middle school open soon and then high school and beyond. but we got to see what happens with this variant. we got to get more people vaccinated. we got to have more testing capacity. i'm certain we'll do it over time in this school year, but a few challenges we got to overcome first. >> what is the distinction between elementary school and middle and high schools. why is it safe for the young ones to be there and not the older ones? >> we needed more testing capacity to get first the elementary schools done and special ed and all of them. now we will work our way to middle school. right now with this varcht out there, i want to make sure we have all the tools in place to do it. if i could just keep vaccinating, this would be moot. we could move on to middle school much more quickly. >> new york city mayor bill de blasio, thank you. keep us posted. as for the investigation into the origin of the virus, the team tells nbc news that china is sharing information not previously made public. nbc news senior international correspondent keir simmons has more. >> reporter: more questions about china's research into coronavirus in bats and what the chinese know about the origins of the pandemic. >> there has been a lack of transparency from the beginning. >> reporter: 20,000 entries which may have offered important clues about what the chinese were studying was taken down last spring. a senior lab official has said it was removed for security reasons. one member of the team in wuhan says the chinese are supplying them with data not previously made public. can you trust the chinese data? >> so this is a scientific trip. admittedly with a lot of politics and a lot of blame game. but it is the science that's taking the lead here. and the data don't lie. >> but senior chinese vir roll gists are already suggesting that the virus originated outside china, including the top epidemiologist at china's cdc speaking to nbc news janice macke fray yeah earlier this month. >> do you believe it started in wuhan? >> no. >> do you believe it started in china. >> yes. >> we put that to the w.h.o. >> surely it is too early to reach that conclusion. >> it is. either within or without china. >> other scientists are even less equivocal. >> we can be quite certain that it comes back to this outbreak in wuhan. >> china's record includes arresting or detaining a dozen journalists and whistleblowers for telling the truth. so far the question is off limits. >> all right. coming up, our next guest says -- >> wait, wait, wait. wait. so the w.h.o. can't say that this started in china? is that a surprise? i mean, willie, is that a surprise to you that -- i mean, is this now -- is this an open question on whether this started in china or not? because i haven't -- i haven't heard it, if it is. >> no. i'm shocked to hear that we have been equivocating on that question and dancing around it when every public health expert we know and have talked to and have heard from, not on this show but around the world have said that. it raises the question of why. why is the world health organization equivocating? why didn't it pursue this out of the gate? there has been a lot of talk and investigation into that more closely in terms of where it came from. a very strange answer to keir's question there from the w.h.o. >> the republicans, of course, and donald trump have been skeptical. we know what donald trump said about trusting china at the beginning of the virus. but the biden administration really needs to push the w.h.o. we don't need to support an organization that is running cover for the chinese government if they can't say unequivocally that this started in china, they need to show us the evidence. i mean, otherwise, you know, they're just playing into their critics hands that they are nothing but a propaganda front for china. not saying they are. >> no. >> not saying they are. >> i am saying, though, that that answer and keir's package feeds right into the worst criticisms about the w.h.o. they need to get right with science, the science of this. and if they have any evidence again, i'll say it again, if they have any evidence at all showing this didn't start in china -- >> yeah. >> -- show us right away. >> cough it up. >> because right now that is -- that is as much as -- that is antiscience. based on everything we know as denying that there is climate change. >> coming up, our next guest says the future of donald trump's struggling business could demand on the man who's victory trump tried to overturn, president biden. that new reporting is ahead on "morning joe." want to sell the best burger in every zip code? 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i've never heard snoring... exactly. no problem...and done. and now, save $1,000 on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed, now $1,799. only for a limited time. ♪♪ yesterday former president donald trump announced the opening of an office to, quote, advance the interests of the united states and to carry on the agenda of the trump administration. the letter head on the statement indicates that the office will operate out of palm beach to where trump moved after leaving the white house last week. while the former president's political future remains up in the air a slew of questions also surround his financial future as well. as our next guest writes "donald trump returns to his company this week as it faces a deepening crisis, with key properties leaking revenues," joining us is david farenthold, and investigative reporter vicky ward. great to have you both with us. david, i'll start with you. you know, you hear about trump himself and family members buying luxury homes across florida. it doesn't appear that they have any financial problems but what are you finding? >> well, i don't know of any sign that they're running out of money or they're going to shut down anytime soon but the trump organization is in some serious distress. its matter properties are dependent on the tourism business, hotels and golf resorts. all those were hammered by covid. it's not going to get better until the vaccine comes into play. also, the partners and the vendors that trump might have used to build out of that hole many of those folks have fled any association with this company since january 6th, bankers, lawyers, the pga, people who stood by him through the depth of his presidency, through charlottesville and everything else have left the last few weeks, hard to mount a comeback without those folks by his side. >> who's left around him. we know, as you said, the banks won't loan him money anymore, a lot of people who work for the trump organization are walking away from him. his corporate sponsors are gone. who is in that inner circle that will try to make this business survive? >> well, he's got his children although i don't know that ivanka trump and donald trump jr. will do much, there's eric trump and folks who have been around the trumps since the '80s. he's now got to try to figure out, okay, can i save the businesses that i'm in, these hotels and golf resorts that are aimed at basically a customer base that isn't that big of a trumpy customer base or should i shut that down, get out of it and move to stuff that costs less to focus on my political base. >> vicki, you're looking at jared kushner, ivanka trump, among others, what is the future of the trump band for ivanka, which was important to her, she saw herself as sort of an ambassador to the trump brand, had her shoe line, her clothing line and other things that she was, you know, forwarding the trump name with. >> right. so, i mean, you know, back to "saturday night live," she's guilty by association. i mean, i think that the only retailers likely to be stocking ivanka trump is overstock.com. it's going to take people a long time to get over this corporate america, as david was just saying has spoken louder than congress on this and the trump brand, you know, you can stick a fork in it, basically. you know, they are back to greyhound buses, slot machines, casinos. and, you know, nobody that they would have sought as customers is going to be buying what they have. mika, you talk about jared. if you can't get a banker, you still need a buyer. and the kushners, thanks to donald trump's pardon of charles kushner, are now extremely liquid and very bankable. so this is something that's actually among my sources being seriously discussed that the kushners may end up buying the trump assets, which are worth something, and obviously then taking his name off it and making money. jared's sort of political future, i think, is more questionable. you know, his four years of fame was due to the fact that he was in the proximity to the president. that is over and all his buddies in the middle east may have much less use for him, i think, going forward. >> and david farenthold, what do you make of the trump family, the trump children moving forward with the family business in some way, shape or form, specifically ivanka with the help of jared. >> i don't know that ivanka trump will be that involved in the trump organization. it's not a great place to be. i don't think i'd want to be there now. it's a lot of problems and not a lot of opportunities. what vicki said about the kushner family possibly buying out the trumps. there's vultures circling. people may want these golf properties, they may think these hotels or resorts will be do better without trump's name on them. what price could trump get and will it be enough to pay off the huge loans he has on these properties, whether it's the kushners or somebody else, there will be people buying these properties but the question is how much leverage will they have over trump and what price will they give him. >> if he has, david, a $290 million debt on duh ral, and the d.c. total, aren't those at the top of the list of properties that he's going to look to dump, whether the kushners ride in to save him or whether it's somebody else? >> i think those are the ones that are the most critical for trump. the d.c. hotel particularly, it's lost money since it was open. it loses the cash shade it had, the president's hotel, alienates half the population that didn't want to stay there. trump was looking to sell that before covid. yes, i think if there's one he was going to sell first it would be that hotel or dural but there are huge debt loads on those places. the question is, if he's going to sell it will he get a price to enable him to pay off some or all of those loans, if not, that's not an attractive proposition. >> vicki, you've studied ivanka and jared over the years. beyond the business there's talk of how they've tried to turn the page from these last four years and absolve themselves of responsibility, step back into some of the social circles they were in new york city and florida and across the country. what does their life look like now after these four years of president trump? >> well, you've noticed, they're in miami and not in new york, which is very telling. i think given what we've just all been talking about, the problems with the trump brand and she is a trump and she's very much associated herself with the trump brand, her only option, really, actually is the political one because the trump brand is not worth it to her. it's no longer about glitzy jewelry and diamonds. it's not high end. the trump base is working people. so that's who she now has to pivot to, i think, and see if she can build a political career in florida. she does have, as we've discussed, a rich, a rich husband. i will just say, to what you guys were talking about earlier about dural and the "washington post" office building, trump -- i was speaking to one of trump's brokers yesterday. the dural is the most problematic for trump because that's the one that he has what's called a recourse loan on so he actually has -- he is personally guaranteed for a portion of that. so that's -- for him, you know, that is his biggest problem. that's what they're watching. >> i'm sorry, vicky. david, quickly, we've got to go. i've had several people close to trump of all the chaos that's surrounded him, the thing that enraged him the most the last month of his presidency is when the pga took away the tournament, which really speaks to the part of the business he loves the most. and the part of the business he's most likely to lose. >> that's right. the pga tournament was not only going money and public and, you know, sort of an elevation of the trump brand on a national stage but for him personally a chance to be physically at the center of the golf universe. this is a crowd that matters a lot to him and he was going to be their king, at least for a week. so amazingly the pga had stuck with him through everything else in his presidency and if he hadn't incited a riot at the capitol on january 6th he would have walked out with that still coming to bedminster but even that was too much for the pga. >> even sedition against the united states of america, too much for the pga. let's leave it there. >> two amazing reporters, david farenthold and vicky ward, thank you both for your reporting. this will be interesting, joe, to see how things pan out for the trump family as a whole. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage now. >> i'm stephanie ruhle from msnbc headquarters here in new york city. it is tuesday, january 26th, a busy day ahead. this afternoon all 100 senators will be sworn in as jurors in former president donald j. trump's impeachment trial. we're also expecting a summons to be issued this afternoon. also today, president biden signing more executive actions, this time focusing on racial equity in the justice system. but, of course, hanging over all of this, the covid crisis.

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