on trump. i'm howard kurtz and this is mediabuzz. the debate will be hosted by bret baier and martha maccallum. i spoke to the anchor of the story from new york. martha maccallum, welcome. >> hi, howie, good to be with you. howie: i haven't seen a build up like this for a first debate at the beginning of a campaign since that 2015 fox debate with political newcomer donald trump. i turned to the other channels i see fox debate. what are people saying? why do you think that is? >> i think there's a lot of enthusiasm. i think people are much more politically engaged and probably since that 2015 debate and i think that people see this as , you know, entertainment that is very eye opening in terms of what's going on in the political world, so i think it's a huge opportunity for these candidates on this stage and we see it across-the-board that people are just more interested in politics they are more interested in what's going on, so i think it's great. howie: people didn't talk about politics or talk about civilians now as much as they do now. you would think that donald trump having a massive lead in the primary as much as 40 points in national polls, that that would take some of the zing, some of the suspense out of it but that doesn't seem to be the case. >> you know why i think that is , howie? i've been looking a lot at the polling that we have just coming in over the course of this week and that lead, you know, shows up in a lot of polls, and it looks durable at least for now, but what you also see in these polls is that there's that kind of 37% that are solid trump supporters. then you've got 30 and change that say i'm persuadable. these are all republican voters in this poll. 37-plus, i'm persuadable, i'm open. 25% say they put themselves in the never-trump category, right? so that's about 63% who are open to someone else, interested in someone else, and people say, you know, they look at all these other candidates what are they doing? he's so far ahead but when you look at it that way you can see why they do see a path. it is early on. there are going to be a lot of shifts and one of the most interesting things to watch on wednesday night, you know, a couple people will really stand out. a couple people may end this race for themselves that night so it will widdle down and that's the other reason people are excited to watch. howie: trump has made it clear now he's not coming and let me refrain that because he loves to inflate a guessing game, so there could be last minute surprise, but let's assume that he sticks with his position. does he become less of a spectacle, not just lower ratings but does the star power go down to put it historically? >> i find it interesting. he's made a couple of choices in the path 24 hours or so, howie. one was that he canceled that news conference that he was going to have on monday morning, right? so he's not going to come out and state his opinion and his case in the georgia situation and then do you know just a few hours later no i'm not going to debate either so i'm kind of wondering what's going on, why he's turning down these opportunities to speak to the american people, on the one hand that has me curious as someone who covers this race. on the other hand, i think that this makes a huge opportunity for all of these other candidate s because if he's not there, they are going to have a lot of space to really make themselves heard, and some of them will start to chip away at his numbers. there's no doubt about it so i think that makes it even in some ways more interesting, actually, howie. howie: i think the spotlight will shine a little more brightly on them. unlike any campaign in our lifetimes, donald trump's four indictments are dominating his campaign more than the debates i would say. i look at the coverage and it's less iowa state fair and more courtroom hearings about scheduling. >> i think it was the "wall street journal" a week or so ago that said this was a carnival that is rotating between courtrooms and rallies, and i think that is a very apt look on what we're going to be watching. this is a completely unprecedented political experience when you have a layer and we've been keeping a running chart, to show how it all lines up with iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, march 5 super tuesday. all of that on top of these court dates that are put throughout the entire process. it will happen per him because he will have to spend time on these issues, and you know, how it plays we'll see , but we've seen that these indictments have only fueled people's support for him. there are people who are rally ing to his side, because of them, but i think overtime and watching this play out you'll have other people who are in that 62% who are saying you know maybe there's some place where there's a little bit less drama and the same kind of effectiveness so i don't know. that's the opportunity though that's out there for these other candidates. howie: there's not much question as in the primary, of course a general electoral is a different situation but martha, a majority of republicans according to the polls that we've all seen, believe that these indictments are the result of a weaponized justice department or a partisan democratic district attorneys, and they're not interested in the details. they sort of tune it out so you think that that in some ways muscles the impact. >> you know, i think that's really unfortunate and i don't think it's that surprising, howie. i mean, they see situations whether it's hillary clinton and donald trump or hunter biden and connections that have been laid out by a number of witnesses to joe biden that people, that there should be more curiosity driving these issues, right? but they see one situation and handle it one way and one the other way and i think the distrust in the system and the department of justice and the fbi, those are at levels we haven't seen in a long time. i think those institutions should really be asking themselves how is this happening how have we allowed this trust to deteriorate? it's a very serious issue in the country so i think that's why you get a little bit of tune -out to the details because people are not trusting it which is something that i hope these institutions start taking very seriously at some point. howie: we're just in a hyper partisan situation. chris cristi may be the toughest debater on that stage and he laid out for me what he was going to do when he was on immediate mediabuzz and he's moved up a little bit in the polls but many republicans believe he's just trying to tear down trump in other words some of that support may or may not go to him. >> we'll see. yeah, he's a fighter, and he, it's very interesting to me that chris cristi story, because he had an opportunity to run for president and that turned out to be romney's rom it nation and he decided to wait and be governor again so a lot of people thought it wasn't a path for him. he has a path in new hampshire. it's not huge but he's neck and neck with ron desantis right now so he's getting attention in that lane. he's saying i'm in that lane with those 63%. those are my people. the people who are already in the trump category, they aren't interested in me and that's fine that's why he's not even going to iowa, so i think this story is far from written, howie, and i think that chris cristi is one of the interesting people to watch in it. howie: yeah, absolutely, and it's also interesting and we have that leaked memo from desantis pack saying don't attack trump, in fact defend him , if cristi asks a question, so he's got his or her own strategy and some of them just don't want to offend trump's loyal base thinking they can peel off some of those voters. how many of the barbs do you think will be aimed at president biden or do you think we'll see a lot more republican on republican violence? >> well they have to get through both hoops right? the first hoop they have to get through is the republican hoop so they have to, to some extent, go at each other, or they have to really stand out on their own and make people sit up and take notice, and then after that, they've got to get through the hoop of going up against joe biden at least if he turns out to be the candidate he certainly appears to be on that track right now. anything can happen, but you know, they have to kind of thread that needle pretty carefully but they do have to, we watched how the former president trump just sort of picked people off one after another on that debate stage, and so that is part of the process. we'll see if the way he did it changes the game when we get to milwaukee. howie: all of them have their prepared one-liners. does that make it more of a clam edge for you to try to get beyond that and get to the substance what would you actually do about whatever the issue is? >> i think that's the challenge you know it well, howie, of listening to the answer and see ing if they're actually making attempt to answer the question that was asked and then circling back around pinning them down to it if they haven't. politicians are very good at launching into it and you saw it in that desantis memo. say these things, at least three to five times, right? he's not alone. they are all having these same kind of meetings. these are the points you want to be sure to hit over and over so yes, i think when you start to hear that drone, you want to jump in and say no, no, wait a minute this is the question we're talking about and we need answer so we're moderators in this environment, it's not a one on one interview situation which is different than this. it's for us to put that question out there and hopefully we get some debate going on that between the candidates because that's why they call it a debate howie: you've done this many times, but i have to ask given the global attention to this first debate. are you feeling some pressure? >> of course. you know, but that's the kind of pressure we thrive on, right? we like these big moments. we love covering them, and it forces you to really buckle down and do your homework. fortunately we have a great team , brett and i have worked together a lot over the years, and we're putting our heads together everyday for several hours a day, and it definitely is the kind of thing you wake up in the morning and start jotting things down on your phone because you want to figure out a better way to ask a question but it's really actually the pinnacle of the kind of thing we love to do, so we're excited. howie: big game, big pressure, martha maccallum, thanks for joining us. >> great to see you as always. howie: when we come back, donald trump's fourth indictment but doesn't each set of new charges boost the former president? 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county of the votes of the presidential electors. >> that's exactly why all of these indictments are happening now. make trump look like a criminal. then next year, in 2024, trap the leading republican in court. drain his resources. >> here is where it goes off the rails. he promises evidence, which we all know now doesn't exist, for his very base less claims of fraud. >> after i read through this latest indictment of trump, i found myself asking, how can we now really say that we're any better than what we're seeing in the old former soviet union? >> the president of the united states has absolutely no power to intervene in any way in the georgia criminal prosecution of donald trump's criminal enterprise. howie: joining us now to analyze the coverage in new york , rich lawry and in washington marie har, former state department spokeswoman and fox news contributor. rich the media is been in wall to wall mode since fani willis delivered these indictments and this is the case where trump tells gathering gary cohen secretary of state i need you to find 11, 780 votes. is this indictment having a big impact? >> it's bigger than some of the others. it's hard to keep track now, howard. howie: that's key and we do this for a living. we do this for a living. >> yeah, so it gives trump a short-term fundraising balance but we've learned recently, you know, his funding has basically been drained by all the legal fees involved and the prosecutions and it gives him the attention of the candidates they all have to talk about trump that's all that matters and creates a sympathy effect among republicans and republicans think it's intuitive ly correct when trump was saying they could indict for any of the stuff at any time if i was just going playing golf , retired they wouldn't indict me. they are on this schedule right now in order as pete hegseth was saying there to tie me up with legal fees and to tie me down in terms of time and resources next year. howie: right. well that assumes it's an organized effort because obviously you have state and federal prosecutions. we were always shocked that trump seems to go up after each indictment has a huge republican primary lead but we look at the overall overall electorate in the latest fox news poll slate majority says the former president committed serious crimes in these investigations. is that part of it being overlooked? >> i think so, howie, and look, martha made some really good points in the last segment with that great interview you did. howie: thank you. >> about the huge percentage of republican primary voters not general electorate voters republican primary voters looking for someone else, and we see every time there's an indictment he does raise money off of it but if you look at the sec data from the last quarter that we now have, each time, he raises a little less. so it's like every time there's another indictment, i think up until this latest round, which comes to 91 indictments, right, howie? we wouldn't hire someone to work with us, i'm not sure why republican primary voters some want to make him president but every time we see this , his support wanes a little bit so i totally agree with martha. i don't think this story is over yet. we're in totally unprecedented times and i don't think we can assume when he gets in court, all of this evidence against him during the primaries that that will not mean that someone else won't rise to the top. i think the story is far from over. howie: well the voters will get their say. rich, through multiple indictments lose their impact and shock value. the first time the former president of the united states never happen when they reported for the fourth time. >> yup, yeah, just personally, i watched the first arraignment. i watched the motorcade heading to the courthouse, in manhattan and then i was talking to a friend i think it was the january 6 indictment i forget, which, and he was telling me i have it on right now. he's heading into the courtroom i'm like what? i forgot about it. it didn't even interest me so yeah, its lost its shock value but look these are serious legal cases. howie: especially this one. >> maybe they aren't tried before the nomination is settled i think it's kind of hard the timing. to say we're going to indict him on all this stuff and try him immediately on all of them has just in hair entertainment due process issues, right? because how many trials can you prepare for at once, but they certainly want to do something before the general election and they are just inherently tied up in politics and i just think it's the whole thing is a bad idea and probably going to end badly. howie: that sets up my next question because if you just look at georgia, as you know, rudy giuliani is ripping fani willis saying this is ridiculous application racketeering laws, mark meadows wants to move trial to federal court. why would fani willis want to try 19 cases and deal with 19 lawyers and sets of objections? >> well, that's a great question. i'm not a legal expert. i will defer to her on how she wants to handle this prosecution but georgia is a great example politically, howie. the fact that donald trump is screwed up the republican operation in that state they lost two senate seats. he lost the state to joe biden, and that state that is in many ways quite conservative is now trending blue so i think, howie, there are a lot of republican voters when asked by a pollster foil loyalty of donald trump and say they will vote for him but privately when they get in that voting booth i think they vote for someone else. i think they vote for mike pence , let's not sleep on him. i think they vote for ron desantis and vote for tim scott. howie: we shall see. >> some of the polls are a little skewed potentially. howie: donald trump canceled a press conference he was going to have tomorrow. i want put the graphic up but he says he has evidence about the election in georgia but his lawyers say he should present it in some more formal legal fashion. donald trump listens to his lawyers? >> yeah, i know, this goes to what a bad idea this must have been, [laughter] that on this one, one of the lawyers actually managed to convince him. obviously being trump's lawyer is one of the worst jobs as an attorney in the united states, because he's not going to listen to your advice and attack the prosecutor and judge and just an attack dog that's what he does but occasionally you can talk him down and apparently he did in this case. howie: just briefly so after two and a half years donald trump says he can disprove the georgia accusations but he's holding off for now. >> because he can't and we all know that the facts are not on his side. he's lost every court case about this and look the fact that there are so many defendants here not just donald trump. this was a conspiracy. all of his top people working for him were indicted, rudy giuliani, mark meadows, these are really serious charges and he can't spin this away like he's always done. howie: all right before we go to break, rich, you have some news about the national review print addition? >> yeah, we're going monthly which is a big deal for us we long ago became more than just a print magazine but print is key to our identity and this is not like a news weekly or something just getting smaller and smaller disappearing. it's a bigger magazine, sleek new modern design, better quality paper, everyone we show ed prototypes to has a wow effect and we think our readers will have exactly the same reaction when they get it in october. howie: wow effect i like that. all right next on mediabuzz we get a look at ron desantis' secret debate strategy as he's in danger of slipping perhaps even further in the polls. this is your summer to smile. to raise your glass and reconnect. to reel in the fun and savor every bite. to help you get ready your aspen dental team is celebrating 25 years of affordable care with an epic 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okay, rich we'll come back to vivek ramaswamy later i know you have things to say about that but the desantis campaign tells me the dishonest media are distorting the facts and that the governor was referring to trump and d.c. insiders who feel entitled to vorticity your vote, but it sounds like hillary integrating trump voters as a basket of deplorables. >> as an insult listless develops doesn't really rate for me. it's clear to me what he meant. he's trying to say literally trump shouldn't define whether you're a loyal republican or a loyal conservative, but it seems like one of those things now that's just going to enter and this is a snake bit campaign, howie. it's hard to think of one good news cycle that desantis campaign has had in the last six months. there's some state level endorsements besides that its just been bad news story after bad break after bad news story. howie: there have been missteps , the debate about slavery and then changing campaign managers. i don't know if you're more excited about list also vessels but attack the media seems like a no-brainer seems for a republican candidate but take a sludge halperer to vivek ramaswamy who i'm sure a majority of americans have never heard of. >> well first of all, his super pack never should have leaked this memo. i think that was a strategic mistake. it makes him look silly in many respects because he won't take on the elephant in the room. look if he's going to be the nominee he has to take on donald trump. this weird attempt to hug him and defend him when he doesn't even show up to the debate and to try and get down in the mud with a candidate most americans don't even know, although he's rising in the polls a little bit , i don't think ron desantis has a strategy. i don't think he has any clue what he's doing here politically , and rich is right. i can not think of one good cycle, media cycle, he has had since he announced. he just can't figure out if he should go against trump, sort of go against him, he doesn't know what he's doing here. howie: i will concede that desantis has had a lot of problems, but the media have really pounded this guy every single day. no matter what happens, he gets a negative story. it really, they have it in for him but let me turn to this , because first of all, was that super pack memo wasn't leak ed it was posted on an obscure corner of the internet because they can't legally coordinate with the campaign but here is a suggestion on trump. listen to this , rich. he's a breath of fresh air, desantis should say, and the first president to tell the elite where to shove it and then, add that the former president was attacked all the time, provoke attacks all the time and it was non-stop. forgive me. isn't he running against donald trump? >> well this is a dilemma, howie. the real thing, so martha emphasized one aspect of the state of the republican electorate. half of it, two-thirds of it, whatever is open to an alternative to trump. 25% just don't want him and then other 30 is persuadable, but a huge majority of republicans also don't want trump attacked, so how do you present yourself as the alternative and take him down from this huge commanding lead at the same time you're not seeming as though you're attacking him and the listless thing is a perfect example of this. there's extreme sensitivity around trump, these guardrails have been created so if you say listless vessels everyone freaks out but trump can say desantis was grooming teenage girls when he was a teacher, he might be gay, even worst stuff out there and no one bats an eye lash. howie: yeah, well, it is a dilemma, just one second, it is a dilemma but at the same time, if you never criticized the guy, people will say well why don't i just pick trump so the memo also says, you'll love this , a former political person, tell an anecdote about your family, show emotion, the kind of thing most candidates don't need tutoring on. >> yes, i mean that's been one of ron's biggest problems. he's a little weird. he's a little wooden on the campaign trail. there are these videos posted of him at the iowa state fair trying to talk to children and he doesn't know what to say to them. he's a very sort of odd retail politician, right? that's one thing donald trump is very good at. love him or hate him, he's good at retail politics. ron desantis isn't. i think the big question about the debate for ron desantis, because he's the second candidate under trump, but for all of them, how much do they actually want to talk about trump versus how much do they want to talk about their vision, their policy ideas? if they spend this whole debate defending donald trump or attacking him if you're chris cristi, none of them are going to benefit from that in the poll s, i don't think. howie: there will be some questions about trump but i don't think bret baier and martha maccallum will let it be about the guy whose not there. rich, here is what i wanted to ask you earlier. you wrote about a month ago in a column in politico, get ready for the vivek ramaswamy moment and two days ago, time had how vivek ramaswamy became 2024's breakout candidate. what gives the media the magic power to declare the moments for candidates? >> well what else is the media going to do? this is what it does and vivek, we'll see how long it lasts, but compared him in that column a little bit to mayor pete and mayor pete shouldn't have run for president but he's a very talented guy in many ways very well-spoken and never got corner ed on anything and vivek is the same way. no ones attacked him, trump certainly hasn't attacked him. the other candidates ignored him but beginning to eat into the vote of other candidates especially desantis so that's why you had that debate pointer in there. howie: you know if he is having his moment and starts to get more media scrutiny people start to look at some of his positions like raising the voting age to 25 and not a big supporter of aid to ukraines but maria i'll say one thing for vivek ramaswamy. he's done a lot of media interviews, he didn't have much choice but that's how he has moved up in the polls. >> he has, and that's sort of where he's like mayor pete but i also think he's like the andrew yang of this years republican primary class. he comes from business, a very outsider mentality trying to just shake it all up, and andrew yang had a little bit of a moment too. i think vivek will be an interesting addition to the debate stage but going back to the point you just made about desantis. they have to start differenting their policies and whether it's weird ideas vivek has about russia and ukraine or desantis' really controversial social stances on things like yes, slavery, that i hope is what the debate is about is what these candidates feel, what these candidates think and i think martha's right. some will rise because of this debate. some may have to end their campaigns because of this debate and a lack of fundraising a lack of support coming out of it, so it's a really big moment for all these guys. >> for the record desantis does not have controversial views on slavery. he opposes slavery. that whole line -- >> well he says things and puts forward policies that certainly can be interpreted as controversial on slavery and maybe he's not explaining them the right way, rich, but the fact that -- >> they have been totally distorted. >> no. he's messing with florida's curriculum on a whole host of issues at the university level, at the high school level. >> but that's a different issue >> trying to rewrite our history in a very controversial way and down playing our history >> whose supposed to write florida's curriculum? it's not down playing slavery. >> he's not having a good campaign. howie: all right >> we're debating it shows you're distort ing the facts. he's opposed to slavery. >> that's not true, rich. >> it says some slaves gain skills during the course of their -- >> have fun defending that. have fun. howie: i'll jump in as the referee. >> that's the positive thing about african americans not slavery. howie: i'll jump in and say he had a detour that allowed others to attack him but certainly to say he's pro-slavery is ridiculous. up next, why, i've gotta go, why did fani willis bring racketeering charges against 18 other people? you didn't live this strong, this long to get put on the shelf like a porcelain doll. if you have postmenopausal osteoporosis and are at high risk for fracture, you can build new bone with evenity®. ask your doctor if you can do more than just slowing down bone loss with evenity®. want stronger bones? then build new bone; evenity® can help in just 12 months. evenity® is proven to reduce spine fracture risk by 73%. evenity® can increase risk of heart attack, stroke, or death from a cardiovascular problem. do not take evenity® if you have low blood calcium, or are allergic to it. serious allergic reactions and low blood calcium have occurred. tell your doctor about jaw bone problems, as they have been reported with evenity®. or about pain in your hip, groin, or thigh, as unusual thigh bone fractures have occurred. don't let a break put you on a shelf. talk to your doctor about building new bone with evenity®! howie: with the first republican debate now just days away here on fox some of the candidates who have barely had a negative thing to say about donald trump are toughening their rhetoric. >> the georgia election was not stolen and i had no right to overturn the election on januar. [applause] >> i'd never thought he should run to begin with even before all these legal cases. howie: which is funny how on podcasts people are maybe a little more bold, but you know, some of these candidates are starting to talk a little bit tougher on trump, some not, and we touched on this earlier but i didn't get the old strategy. how do you beat the guy if you don't take him on? >> yeah, so with pence, clearly , the january 6 indictment was an inflection point. he defended what he needed to defend what he did on that day and defend his honor and desantis actually in a listless vessel thing is part of this , he's crawling up to being more aggressive and forceful against trump, but it goes back to the dilemma i was talking about but at thend of the day there's no way around him, you'll have to go through him, and no ones going to win the nomination tiptoeing around trump. howie: maria anybody who attacks trump makes news. in fact a lot of these candidates the only media oxygen they can get is by answering questions about trump. what do you think about trump not being on the stage and all of that, but guys have four indictments. any other campaign you can imagine wouldn't even a single indictment be fair game for the opponent? >> absolutely. i mean, we are living in an alternative universe, howie. i think one of the worst ways a candidate can respond to questions about donald trump is to waffle, right? either defend him, go out there and defend him, look i don't think that's a defensible position but go out there and defend him, say this is all the justice department, witch-hunt or do what chris cristi is doing and go after him but doug burgham, the north dakota governor was on another network this morning and waffl ing and not taking a position and dodging and i think for candidates the worst place to be because it looks like you don't know what you believe and you're scared of the electorate and unwilling to take a position so you know, pick a side and run with it, but i do agree, pence is picking a new side here and that's a fascinating part of this race to watch. howie: his former vice president, so rich, i think part of this is as trump could be on the stage or not all the stuff we do. the media are so fixated on the former president, and he does make a lo is endlessly fascinating. he does have the four indictment s, but i think it kind of puts the other candidates at a huge disadvantage even with the upcoming debate where the guy won't be on the stage. >> there's just trump has this quality we've talked about this before where so it's kind of a win-win proposition. if he shows up at the debate it be a massive story, all of the attention be about him and he be the biggest guy standing in the middle of the stage the way it was all through 2016, and then he doesn't show up for the debate and everyone else is diminished and the guy he hates and wants to stomp on desantis will be the focus of everyone's attacks as are scorpions in the bottle so eventually this luck or whatever it is will run out but it hasn't yet. howie: regardless of who rich and other people think should have a moment and i only have a moment here, doesn't this -- >> nice segway, howie, wow you're a real pro. howie: [laughter] doesn't a stage where vivek ramaswamy can talk, nikki haley can talk, tim scott can talk, chris cristi can talk, represent a real opportunity for them to breakthrough a little bit, to normal americans. >> absolutely. absolutely. if donald trump were there, he would take up all of the oxygen like he always does and the conventional wisdom used to be there were two tickets out of iowa. this will give the candidates an opportunity to try and get one of them. howie: marie and rich, thanks for hanging with us this sunday. after the break it's called "the blind side" the oscar winning film of a promising young black football player that winds up a legal mess. ♪ hit it ♪ ♪ it takes two to make a thing go right ♪ ♪ it takes two to make it outta sight ♪ ♪ one, two, get loose now ♪ ♪ it takes two to make a... ♪ stay two nights and get a $ 50 best western gift card. book now at bestwestern.com. conquer financial reports. conquer 2000-word essays. conquer a 6 course menu. rule over what you write with the smooth writing, longest lasting gel ink pen in america. do you g2? [ applause ] the day you get your clearchoice dental implants changes your struggle with missing teeth forever. it changes how you eat, how you feel, and how you enjoy life. it changes your smile and how others smile at you. clearchoice network doctors have changed over 100,000 lives with dental implants, and they can change yours, too. because a clearchoice day changes every day. schedule a free consultation. howie: football player michael orr had a compelling life story one captured by famed author michael lewis an a best selling book, a young man for an impoverished background taken in by a white family who went on to play college football and with the nfl. the saga became a movie "the blind side" that won sandra bullock an oscar but now it's a story of trickery, filing suit this week against the memphis family leann and shawn tuhey who orr thought had adopted him but it actually setup a conservatorship, and charges that the family deceived him but when penning a book a couple weeks ago he made no mention while describing his deprived childhood. >> some that i lacked as a young kid for a long time, i wish i had life would have been a little bit smoother mentally for me. maria: a lawyer for the family sees it very differently. >> a bomb dropped on our clients to say they were devastated by these allegations is truly an understatement. >> mike" got every dime he had coming. howie: joining us now griff jenkins, the fox news correspondent and anchor. so you're from memphis you went to ole miss. what's at the heart of michael suing this family? they did take him in and bring him up like a son. griff: as my personal connection , i'm as disappointed as anyone that this heartwarming feel-good story of 2009 and that great movie has a sad earning and clearly orr is emotionally let down he wasn't officially adopted but the real story gets a little more complicated but it hasn't stopped critics by the way a film critic from the npr said this is the poster child for hollywood's white savi or narratives saying the movie was sentimental trash. that's not true. the oher's took him in and did help him achieve his ultimate potential, however they didn't legally adopt him. it was a conservatorship which the dad says was at the time the most pragmatic fastest way to get him to sign at ole miss, to help him get to college and play football then. ncaa rules and concerns about them inappropriately directing him to that college because the tuhey's gone there and were alumni. howie: in this lawsuit or who played for the super bowl champion baltimore ravens when they won says in the suit he received nothing from the blind side which generated p $300 million worldwide revenue so i don't know whose telling the truth here but it's also odd that oher s hasn't said a word in public about this. >> well and oher said he was playing in the nfl he's a super bowl winner with a ring on his finger. he didn't have time to really dig into these details and he recently had discovered the actual paperwork he had signed was a conservatorship but everybody thinks britney spears when you hear that and think oh, my gosh, however the tuhey's attorneys and even michael lewis said there wasn't that much money made and of the money -- howie: lewis blames hollywood. griff: and said hollywood executives got all the money. howie: but does oher have a right to feel deceived because he was under the impression he was adopted by this family which did do a lot for him and that can't be denied but actually technically it was a conservatorship. griff: absolutely he does. when you hear from the attorneys they say that oher tried to shake the family down, the attorney's words not him, for $15 million, in recent years howie: give me 15 million or a sue? griff: or else there's negative press. we don't know much more about that. that's a claim that the attorneys for the family have said, oher and his attorneys have not responded but it clearly looks like there's a bit of a history of why oher is estranged from the family. howie: boy this really turned ugly and he's written two memoires and one, he gives a sentence to the tuhey's and also talks about the movie and how he doesn't like being portrayed as a really dumb kid. he says he was not. so there is several versions floating around here and until this came up with a lawsuit the media never dug into these discrepancies. griff: one of the things that oher says he was most disappointed about the movie going way back looking back at the history he was upset in the movie sandra bullock says she had to teach him how to block and he said no, no, i knew how to play football from the beginning. that heart is hollywood taking liberty which wouldn't be the first time hollywood script writers took liberties but i do say this i don't think he can make sandra bullock give back a best actors oscar, but it is sad as you were saying at the top to see this heartwarming story portrayed as that and now it's just a bunch of lawyers making charges against each other. griff: that's right. they say they are going to legal ly try to end this conservatorship as soon as they can so who knows maybe there's a final chapter they can reconcile and michael lewis will get that story as well. howie: he did write what people think is a very good book. griff jenkins thank you so much. still to come a kansas newspaper is rated and national media support and joe biden initially has no comment on the devastation in maui. make your next move a dream come true with the pods big move sweepstakes. win a free local or long-distance move. plus ultra-premium viking appliances and up to $7,500 cash. enter today for your chance to win. visit pods dot com. at the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's, this is why we walk. ♪ they're why we walk. ♪ we walk in the alzheimer's association walk to end alzhiemer's because we're getting closer to beating this disease. join us. it's true, though - you won't overpay for glasses if you shop at america's best. they offer two pairs and a free, quality eye exam starting at just $79.95. the exam alone is worth at least 59 bucks. i can see from your expression that you find that shocking. and you're actually speechless. ...aaaaaaaaand, you don't have ears. two pairs and a free exam for just $79.95. book an exam today at americasbest.com. it's true, though - you won't overpay for glasses if you shop at america's best. (vo) explore the world the viking way from the quiet comfort of elegant small ships with no children and no casinos. we actually have reinvented ocean voyages, designing all-inclusive experiences for the thinking person. viking - voted world's best by both travel + leisure and condé nast traveler. learn more at viking.com. it was an outrageous assault on the first amendment. a surprise raid on the marion county record a small newspaper in kansas had no idea police and shesheriff officials has suddeny search his office in the home of its owner and editor f. the agency computers and phones and other tools of the practice what we call journalism. tragically joan meyer the 98 year old co-owner of the paper died after the raid on the home she shared with her son publisher eric meyer. more than 30 news outlet signed a letter for freedom of the blessing to local police the raid may have been illegal but publisher meyer now says he will sue. placing the whole point of this was intimidation. everyone has to be protected against unlawful search and seizure. you have to justify no other way to get something than to intrude in some of h house. to seize their property. exit bureau of investigation is looking at the underlying case tangled. it involves accusation by local restaurant owner the record in improperly obtained to restore her driver's license. the did not do anything with the document law enforcement officials have withdrawn the subpoena and return the equipment to the record hitting the paper a victory. i think an apology would be in order. seize but not silence the death death tollhas topped 100. this was not his finest hour. ask any on the rising death toll in maui? >> no comment. president is visiting the hawaiian island tomorrow. in fairness has to wait there all the security people will impede a rescue efforts. biden seems to come in late on crises or issue a statement rather than giving an impression he is taking charge for it we are giving television the soundbites it needs in fact the "washington post" today, the lead story is a critical of his response for five days toward the beginning of this awful devastation in maui pray the president did not address a public at altar of god is taking a trip tomorrow but that is it for this edition of media buzz. you can subscribe to my daily podcast, at media buzz meter we tackle the days of buzzy's stories. and whatever else is on my mind. fox meanwhile is covering the situation in maui all day and in days to come. you can get that news here we are back next sunday 11:00 a.m. eastern with the only media analysis show on national television. ♪ oh, booking.com ♪ somewhere, anywhere... ♪ ♪ i just want to lie motionless in a chair! ♪ booking.com, booking.yeah ♪ ♪ there's a story in every piece of land. written by those who work it. like the upshaws. the nelsons. and the caggianos. run with us and start telling your story. butthe anticipation and excitemt and expectations who will flop and who will not bring the big week for the republican presidential candidate now kicks off. the first debate three days from now right here on the fox news channel. you can seat bret baier, martha maccallum will moderate wednowednesday night's debate bd off of the 2024 white house race but right now five of the 13 candidates have confirmed to fox news they have met all of the criteria to qualify to appear medically signing a pledge to support the eventual gop nominee.

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