counsel jack smith. the 45-page indictment accuses the former e president of three counts of conspiracy and one count of obstruction for his alleged efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election. culminating in the january 6th attacks on the u.s. capitol. here's the special counsel tuesday after the charges were handed up. >> the attack on our nation's capitol on january 6th, 20211, was an unprecedented assault on the seat of american democracy. as described in the indictment, it was fueled by lies. if lies by the defendant targeted at obstructing a bedrock function of the u.s. government, the nation's process of clerking, counting and certifying -- collecting, counting and certifying the results of the presidential election. paul: let's bring in "wall street journal" columnists dan dan henninger kim strassel and editorial board member kyle peterson. dan, it's interesting, he cited the riots at capitol, but that's not really in the indictment, per se, nothing that links to the rioters in particular. instead, it's a conspiracy about overturning the election. what -- how strong is the indictment? >> well, the indictment, i would say, is not very strong and precisely for that reason. you know, this is fascinating, paul, it is so difficult for the general public, for all of us to separate these two events, the attack on capitol on january 6th, from the fact that this indictment is about trump attempting to overturn or obstruct the results of the election. all of those recounts, georgia, arizona, the rest of it, we went through all all that. jack smith is talking about january 6th. but he has to prove the case about the election, and the argument is that trump attempted to keep fraud -- to defraud that election. and one of the statutes that he cited is based on enron, a company that got in trouble back during the financial crisis. that was a financial fraud -- paul: right. >> proving a political fraud, i think, is going to be very difficult. and i think the center of it is, it has to do with trump's state of mind. trump had to believe, with -- know what he was doing was wrong. and i think all of us could ask ourselves did donald trump actually believe that the election, that he had won the election? my view would be, yes, he does believe that, no matter what people were telling him. so jack smith has somehow got to prove, if he has evidence, that trump actually said to one of his associates i know that i lost this election, that would be one thing. but no evidence of that sort has been deduced up to this point at all. paul: kim, you wrote this week that the indictment runs the risk of setting a dangerous precedent in the sense that it criminalizes actions that politicians take based on lies. the indictment says flat out trump can lie all he wants about the election, but it's that taking the action based on that, that is criminal behavior, fraud here. elaborate on your point. >> yeah. well, i think the real problem here, paul, is that a jack smith doesn't is have have a law he can point to that says the actions of donald trump were actually illegal in terms of trying to change or confront or overturn the election results. so instead he's got this novel theory tata it is a conspiracy if a -- that it is a conspiracy if that a politician is advised what he is saying is a lie and acts on it otherwise. the problem though, paul, is we have politicians who do that all the time. i remember back in 2014 when the supreme court ruled 9-0 that barack obama had wrongfully installed recess appointments by declaring the senate in the recess, a power he did not have. he claimed he had the constitutional authority to do that. he clearly did not. could you not make the case that he had lied to the american public and taken actions on the basis of that that defrauded the regular function of government? well, i think you could. and i'm to worried that there's going to be future prosecutors who take this precedent and use it to their own purposes, and that's always the problem you have when someone goes down an unprecedented route like jack smith has here. paul: kyle, there's a lot of ugly facts here that we knew about involving trump, how he tried to pressure mike pence, he and his co-conspirators, now-called, tried to get states to send in an alternative slate of electors for the electoral college, but the key question, is it criminal behavior to do that? >> right, exactly. and dan was talking about the fraud against the united states statute and whether fraud includes political things or only financial crimes. there's another statute that's cited, obstruction of an official proceeding, this is a relatively new law. some of the january 6th rioters have been charged with that and convicted with that, and they are now appealing. so there's at least a possibility that that will get thrown out on appeal. it's a really ugly and damning set of facts, there's not a defense for what president trump did after the 2020 election. but the question is whether it is clearly illegal, and all the people who are finding this indictment cathartic this week with, i think, should think about whether it will be as cathartic if one of these jurors in d.c. says, well, it seems to me that trump actually believed this stuff. or if trump gets convicted and loses the election and then it gets thrown out on appeal at the supreme court and the supreme court says these laws do not cover this conduct, if you think people are upset about a stolen election right now, wait until that happens. paul: dan, what is trump's best legal defense here? >> i think his best legal defense is pretty much as his attorneys have suggested, that he was exercising his right to free speech especially because the special counsel, jack smith, acknowledges that. and that's a very strong precedent that, you know, politicians are allowed to say a lot of the things kim was suggesting and that it's a stretch for them to push this into the area of fraud against the united states. paul: all right. thank you, all. when we come back, selling the biden brand. hunter biden's former business partner testifieses behind closed doors about the president's ties to his son's foreign business dealings. what we learned from the newly-released transcripts, next. i ♪s vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? ask about vraylar. because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms - with vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults. proven, full-spectrum relief for all bipolar 1 symptoms. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles or confusion which may mean a life-threatening reaction, or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. sleepiness and stomach issues are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. ♪ paul: hunter biden's former business partner, devon archer, testified behind closed doors on capitol hill this week, and the transcript from that house oversight committee interview sheds new light on then-vice president joe bide joe biden's involvement in his son's foreign business dealings as hunter sold access to what archer called the biden brand. our panel is back with details. so, kim, what did we learn from the transcript this week that's new? >> well, we learned that unlike democrats said, that there was certainly more of these phone calls on these discussions between joe and hunter and business partners, they were not just talking about the weather -- [laughter] as you said, hunter was selling biden family brand. we learned that the most important part of that brand was joe biden and company's belief -- companies' belief that they were getting access to washington power. we've learned companies like oil and gas firm burisma in ukraine got a prettied good deal out of that in that devon archer claimed the company would have gone bankrupt had it not been for the biden brand and the intimation that the company, which faced a lot of legal troubles, was being protected by that family brand. i think overall, paul, put this in context. you go back, joe biden had been given, deputized this very important mission in ukraine at aen sensitive time when russia had taken crimea. he was then warned by tate department officials that this was a problem, his son's interactions with burisma. not only did he ignore that,s he enabled hunter e to do this which is, i think the, a very alarming set of facts. paul: kyle, the archer testimony and other things we've with learned blow out of the water president biden's assertion that he's made several times in the past that that he never spoke to his son about his business? who? yeah, i think so. i mean, the defense of that will be that it was a little bit wink-wink, nod-nod. he was on the phone calls. hunter biden calls up and says hello to my business partner here with me. the question is whether you believe that, when that's happening dozens of times -- paul: does your dad call you when you're at dinner with your sources? [laughter] >> no. one of the questioners says, would it be weird if i called my dad right now? and the witness said, that would seem a little bit odd to me. but it raises all sorts of questions. president biden's defense in 2020 was my son did nothing wrong, now his son is negotiating a plea deal on tax and gun charges. he said that, you know, his son's business wasn't wrong, his son did nothing wrong in ukraine. he's modified that a little bit lately to the white house saying that president biden was not in business with his son. but i don't think he's going to be able to get away with that anymore even among friendly reporters and friendly faces. i think he's going to get hard questions about isn't what you said in 2020 during the campaign not true? paul: yeah, let's elaborate a little bit on kim's point about what biden was doing here. he was vice president of the united states. he was president obama's point person, point man on ukraine which was under siege by russia in 2014. he wanted to make sure they tried to keep it close to the west. they wanted an honest election, they wanted that to happen. somehow given that role in a very complicated situation, the president allows his son to essentially get into business with big players in ukraine, burisma which was part of this possible corruption story. it seems to me to be monumentally bad judgment to blend what essentially was the family business with a country's business. >> yeah. it's not only monumentally bad judgment by a vice president, arguably it's unacceptably bad judgment. he also went to two dinners at the famous washington restaurant café milano with hunter's business associates, nominal ily for a birthday and to discuss the world food program and then he was on the phone. joe biden as vice -- his son was seeking access in washington on the behalf of these foreign countries, and joe biden was clearly adding credibility to his son's access. this is a political question that the american people -- just as trump and january where 6th and the is something the american people are going to have to pass judgment on, they're going to have to decide that the influence peddling that the vice president participated in is acceptable in a future president. it's a horrible choice for the american people to have in front of them, but let's not deny what joe biden was actually engaged in. paul kim, this was a all kind of ignored in 2020, and i guess the white house right now is betting, hoping maybe that the press corps will ignore most of this. and they're right so far. they mostly ignored devon archer's testimony except for a but of us, so i guess they're hoping that they'll get away with it again and this won't become an issue. but i wonder, is this going to be an issue, in your view, in the 2024 election? >> oh, absolutely. i mean, the press may not cover it to its full extent, but house republicans are only just getting going on these interviews. and think about what we've learned just in the last month from the irs whistleblowers who came forward, from this devon archer transcript. there are other hunter biden partners that are also going to get subpoenas that house republicans are running down at lot of these suspicious financial transactions that were reported. so there's going to be a lot more, i think, damning evidence that does corral joe biden into this enterprise. and that information will get out. and this will be front and center in biden's re-election campaign, and i don't know what he can possibly say that's a good defense for it. paul: all right. still ahead, the latest in the growing clash over supreme court ethics and oversight as democrats take aim at justice samuel alito over his recent interview in the "wall street journal." ♪ ♪ ahhh! icy hot pro starts working instantly. with two max-strength pain relievers, so you can rise from pain like a pro. icy hot pro. we moved out of the city so our little sophie could appreciate nature. but then he got us t-mobile home internet. i was just trying to improve our signal, so some of the trees had to go. i might've taken it a step too far. (chainsaw revs) (tree crashes) (chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? what, we have a ton of mulch. ♪ ♪ if. paul: democrats on the senate judiciary committee sent a letter to chief justice john roberts thursday asking him to take appropriate steps to insure that justice samuel alito recuse himself from any future legal disputes stemming from their efforts to pass a supreme court ethics bill. the letter comes in the wake of a recent interview with alito in the opinion pages of the "wall street journal" in which the justice says congress has no authority to regulate the high court. comments that senate judiciary committee chairman dick durbin criticized this week as unwise and unwelcome. let's bring in james she around tone -- she ran toe, co-author of that interview with justice alito. so, james, tell us about that interview with justice alito. it was very unusual for a justice to sit down for what was four hours with you and david rivkining who's a frequent contributor to the journal. i should add that, for transparency's sake, i was in on the second e of those interviews. >> yes. paul: is why do you think he decided to talk? >> well, he told the us in the second interview that he normally when judges are under attack or the court is under attack, the organized bar, the professional lawyers' association, defends judges. that isn't happening, so he's decided that he's going to defend himself, and he did so with great candor. it was refreshing and sometimes startling how bluntly he spoke. paul: well, and it wasn't just about defending the court, it was also an extensive discussion of how he thinks about the law and some of the differences that he has from a jurisprudential point of view with other justices. that's a rare look at the court's thinking internally. >> yeah. it was really a fascinating four hours. paul: what did you learn about the justice? >> well, i learned, most importantly, that he's very open and and willing to, willing to discuss anything that's not improper. of he didn't talk about pending cases. he avoided issues that the court hasn't decided. except on this issue of ethics in which he expressed a very strong opinion that congress has no right to, no authority under the constitution to regulate the the supreme court. and that brings us to the letter from the judiciary democrats which is just preposterous. they're calling on chief justice roberts to make sure that justice alito recuses himself from certain cases. well, chief justice roberts doesn't have the authority to do that. that's like the president writing a letter to the senate majority leader saying, you know, you better make sure that this particular member of the senate votes this way. no, each senator is elected by his state and has his own authority to vote however he wants, and it's the same in judging. paul: so the associate justice, each associate justice can decide whether or not to recuse him or herself based on their own judgment about whether that's appropriate, is that what saying? >> yes. and that's fundamentally a judicial function, the decision of whether to recuse to. so congress has no authority over it, justice alito is right about that. paul: i guess they're trying to shame justice roberts into lecturing justice alito? which i don't think would get very far. [laughter] >> no, i don't think it will. paul: what is the argument from justice alito for why supreme court the the supreme court cannot -- why the supreme court cannot be regulated by congress? because the senators say, oh, well, we have passed ethics laws that the court does honor, it does so voluntarily, the court does. we can set the number of justices and have passed laws that increased the size of the court. so what's his, a alito's target, that they can't do more? >> yes, and he concedes they can constitutionally increase the size of the court, and they can also cut the court's funding, so they have some indirect power. his central argument is the constitution creates the supreme court. congress doesn't do it. congress creates the lower courts. we didn't go into what -- paul: the lower federal courts. >> right. the appeals and district courts. and congress crypts what are called article i courts, administrative counts. but the supreme court is created by the constitution and, therefore, it's an independent branch of government, and congress has very limited authority over it. paul so if, if congress decided the pass some of these ethics rules, for example, and said we're going to impose -- and the judiciary committee democrats have said to the court if you don't impose your own ethics code, we will impose one on you with, and that includes recusal rules. so let's say they pass something like that. that would then, presumably, be adjudicated, if it were challenged, and until go up to the supreme court, i assume. >> yes. it would be an awkward matter to adjudicate. but the supreme court would be within its authority to adjudicate it because it is a law passed by congress, and it is the, it is -- there is a constitutional question here. and i suspect what they would end up doing, and this is pure peculation based on nothing than nothing that justice alie toe said, that they would have a way to say whoever the litigant was doesn't have standing. [laughter] >> you asked -- paul: and, therefore, they would not rule on it. >> yeah. they would leave the underlying merit side alone, although i wouldn't be surprised if some justices wrote concurring opinions saying that this law is unconstitutional. paul: well, the court, i guess alito told us that all the justices have thought about this question, but he declined to say where some of the other justices calm out. >> yes. paul: so we don't really know what the other eight justices think, although i guess justice elena kagan gave the opinion that maybe she disagrees with justice alito on some elements of this, although it wasn't clear exactly what. >> yeah. i think justice alito is the most publicly-candid member of the court, and he said he doesn't want to talk about what the other justices think, because none of them have spoken publicly about it. ing. paul: thank you, james. when we come back, a ratings agency downgrades the u.s. credit, sounding the alarm over an erosion of government. will washington heed the warning? plus, ron desantis tries to recharge his 2024 campaign with an economic plan. we'll take a look at what he's proposing. ♪ muck profer the grand slam ham. and this rookie pro... profers fresh sliced turkey. and if we profer it, we know you'll prefer it too. glad you made the cut. you mean slice? seriously? mlb chooses t-mobile for business for 5g solutions... ...to not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. -dad, what's with your toenail? -oh, that...? i'm not sure... -it's a nail fungus infection. -...that's gross! -it's nothing, really... -it's contagious. you can even spread it to other people. -mom, come here! -don't worry about it. it'll go away on its own! -no, it won't go away on its own. it's an infection. you need a prescription. nail fungus is a contagious infection. at the first signs, show it to your doctor... ... and ask if jublia is right for you. jublia is a prescription medicine used to treat toenail fungus. its most common side effects include ingrown toenail, application site redness... ... itching, swelling, burning or stinging, blisters and pain. jublia is recognized by the apma. most commercially insured patients may pay as little as $0 copay. go to jubliarx.com now to get started. sleep more deeply. and wake up rejuvenated. purple mattress's exclusive gelflex grid draws away heat, relieves pressure, and instantly adapts. sleep better, live purple. visit purple.com or a mattress store near you. ♪ paul: u.s. debt was downgraded for only the second time in history this week with fitch ratings forecasting a bleak outlook for america's fiscal future. the credit rating agency cited rising debt and, quoteing a steady deterioration in standards of governance for its decision, noting in particular repeated standoffs over the debt ceiling, the most recent in june are. the white house criticized fitch's decision with treasury secretary janet yellen calling the move puzzling. >> i strongly disagree with fitch's decision, and i believe it is entirely up unwarranted. unwarranted. its flawed assessment is based on outdate data and fails to reflect improvements across a range of indicators including those related to governance that we've seen over the past two and a half years. paul: we're back with dan henninger and kyle pettersson -- peterson, also joined bidtorial bidtorialing member kate odell. >> i agree with fitch. the basic problem is we have debt that is about 100% of gdp, it is going only up, up, up. at the same time, we have these exploding entitlements, social security and medicare as the population are ages. we have low economic growth. the biden administration doesn't seem to be interested in pulling any of the policy levers like unleashing energy to deal with that. and then we have a series of these debt standoffs that fitch cited. on the other hand, those are the only times when congress seems to be able to get together and turn off the money spigot just a little bit. paul: yeah. kate, the white house blamed donald trump here for part of this, and i guess it's fair in this sense, donald trump has shown no inclination to do any reforming of the big drivers of debt and spending which are the entitlements like social security, medicare and medicaid. what do you think of the argument that it's, this is a bipartisan problem? >> well, to some extent it is bipartisan s and there hasn't been enough spending restraint from republicans. but one thing i found really striking in the fitch report was that 115% of the economy that the u.s. is heading to to on debt, i mean, that's two and a half times the more closer to 40% average of a aaa rating and 45 on aa. that should give you a sense of the magnitude of the problem. but i do think you're starting to see some more interest on this from republicanses. we did get some debt ceiling spending discipline even if it wasn't as much as we would have liked. i think also the fitch report, i mean, fitch is not clairvoyant, there are reasons to dispute some of their assumptions, but it's forcing the biden administration to have a conversation about this. they can didn't dismiss -- can't dismiss fitch, and it will force them to dress things -- address things like their car subsidies or health care subsidies that are simply not sustainable. paul: dan, the risk isn't default here, but it is rising interest costs perhaps because they're going to charge more for our debt. i guess the danger down the road is that someday the world which lends us a lot of money will wake up and say, you know what? we're not going to do it anymore. [laughter] >> right. exactly right. and then they can ask janet yellen what happened. you know, let's go back -- we cannot let janet yellen off the hook here. treasury secretary, former chairman of the federal reserve. she actually said that fitch is wrong because the biden administration has been spending on infrastructure and other investments and are competitive. every federal reserve chairman going back to paul volcker, every single one including janet yellen have gone before congress and said you have to spend less because the interest payments on the debt are just going to become unsustainable. if for her to sit there and claim that spending is solving america's economic problems is really too much to listen to. paul: all right. kate, you looked at the ron desantis plan this week. what did you like about it? >> well, paul, i mean, desantis set out a 3% growth target for the economy which i think is worth dwelling on, because that will being essential to digging out of this problem. he also backed it up with some good ideas to get to 3% growth. energy production would be one of them, getting millions of prime-age men back in the labor force, even school choice, i think, is a great growth policy. so there's a lot to like there. i think there are some questions about whether that will continue to be his guiding star. i mean, he said he wants to simplify the tax code and get rid of carveout toes, another big pro-growth policy as long as he's not derailed by some sort of populist-right ideas like a large child tax credit that he's declined to support so far. but also trade and immigration, he sounded some notes there that are not growth-friendly especially on immigration. so i think he's got to decide what his guiding light is and, hopefully, it's growth because that's the only way we're going to get out of this. taxation -- revenues are healthy. if you read cbo, it's spending. paul: what didn't you like, or what gave you pause? >> the biggest one is he talks about reshoring u.s. capital from china using strategic tax abatements, and -- paul: what's wrong with that? people would say, can come on, we want reshoring here in the united states, we want those jobs coming back. >> sure. but it sounds like a central planner trying to pick winners which generally doesn't work, and why not run on the florida model? he's got a great record, and what made florida's economy great was not strategic tax abatements. paul: well, are you saying that his bows to the so-called populists is something that now every republican presidential candidate maybe feels obliged to do in the wake of trump? >> maybe feels obliged to do, and maybe he wouldn't feel the need to follow through on that. i do think he's putting some bad policy in this proposal to try to get those voters that have been historically trump's base. paul: when we come back, talking on big tech. lindsey graham and elizabeth warren team up on a bipartisan proposal that would create a federal agency with the power to sue the internet platforms and even shut them down. so is a new bureing rock city ththe answer to -- bureaucracy d answer to big tech compare --gei power? 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you may pay as little as $10 per prescription. ♪ ♪ paul: the bipartisan push to rein in big tech is gaining some steam with senators lipped are city graham and elizabeth warren calling for the creation of the new federal agency9 with the power to sue internet platforms and even shut them down. the plan, released last week, would create a new regulatory body called the digital consumer protection commission charged with hinesing and policing -- license aring and policing companies like meta, google and amazon. the lawmakers say the commission will, quote, prevent online harm, promote free speech and competition, guarantee americans' privacy and protect national security. let's bring in andy kessler, he writes the inside view column for "the wall street journal". andy, good to see you, as always. so is the nation clamoring for a digital consumer protection commission? do we need it? >> i don't think so. you know, i actually read this bill. i had insomnia, and it helped put me to sleep. but it's 158 pages of red tape. i mean, the thing is just a power grab to unelected regulators, and we don't need this thing. first, there's a $500 million budget for this thing k and they get to keep any penalties they get from suing big tech companies. paul: yes. >> so instead of promoting competition, transparency and all those things, it's going to freeze today's technology. of it's going to kill innovation, not help it. paul: so and yet when you look at american history whenever you have these big disruptions or new developments in the economy, i'm thinking of the railroads, for example, you end up with the interstate commerce commission or ended up with radio helped give us the federal communications commission. is this just sort of what inevitably happens when you get new disruptive businesses that grow large very rapidly? >> well, sure. but then you get regulatory capture which is exactly what happened with railroads and radios. in fact, there is a radio aspect to this thing. this new commission would require revocable licenses for each of the platforms. i mean, so what about new platforms? do the start-ups have to ask for permission to innovate? silicon valley works and tech works because of experimentation, because of surprises. i mean, if this bill was around 20 years ago, we'd still be dialing into america online or using one of these, a blackberry. [laughter] i mean, i don't want to go back to that world. paul: well, i guess a lot of americans listening to you would say, well, wait a minute here, big tech very, very powerful. you know, they take our data, they use it and sell it and, in fact, they censor much of what certain people they don't like. and we know from recent court cases that facebook twitter were pressured by the federal government to essentially shut down voices or downplay voices on the platforms that were politically unpopular. what are you going to do to check that power? >> so,ing or look, i agree, technology industry, there's plenty of issues, you know? apple and google and their app stores and amazon sells private label versions next to in the marketplace and google provides services next to search results, censoring, this is all sorts of problems. you know, silicon sali, it's a free market -- silicon valley, it e works by competition. and if you think each of these companies has a no knoply, you're mistaken. in cloud it's amazon, microsoft, orring cl, ibm. in phones, apple and google compete. the number of apple iphones is actually going down. facebook and twitter compete in social networks. microsoft, google and meta now in a.i. and every big company is under threat from if new innovations. i mean, a.i. and chatgpt certainly proved that. my problem with all this is this is not the way to resolve problems. if you try to micromanage tech and innovation like elizabeth warren and lindsey graham are trying to do, you'll end up killing it. paul: what about the censorship problem? that's certainly bothersome to me. we've had some of our things, the fact checks, so-called, on some of our articles on facebook because they set up a committee full of like-minded people on the left who don't like competing points of view. i'm -- what do you do about that problem? because they have a big tech coe chamber where they dominate the public discussion. >> yeah. i think censorship is a problem, and i think that can be are resolved first by competition, but secondly, by transparency. and, you know, remember, these companies, they get to invoke their own first amendment rights as part of section 230 which allowed them to host content without being sue ised. they were allowed to have community standards and take down whatever they want. the problem is, is when the white house and others in government were calling or e-mailing facebook and twitter and saying you need to take this stuff down about covid or about right-wing things. and that is an absolute violation of the first amendment and should be prosecuted. but the only way to find out about it is by via transparency. and i think these companies need to post more about either how their algorithms work but, you know, again, government can help open up and provide sunshine, but i think competition will do that in even greater numbers. paul: and a digital consumer protection agency, i assume, much like -- might very well be even more censor yous if you put politicians in charge of what these platforms can say. briefly. >> well, i mean -- [laughter] if you get to keep the penalties from what you sue, it sounds almost like an extortion racket to me, and that's the reason to be censorious. i don't like it. paul: andy, thanks so much for coming in. when we come back, with congress out of town on summer ree access, the biden administration is quietly proposing dozens of new regulations that could cost americans hundreds of billions of dollars. we'll tell you about a few of them next. ♪ ♪ from august 7th to the 13th. now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. about two years ago, i realized that jade was overweight. i wish i would have introduced the fresh food a lot sooner. after farmer's dog, she's a much healthier weight. she's a lot more active. and she's able to join us on our adventures. get started at betterforthem.com ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ you know, silicon valley, it's a . ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ martial arts is my passion. i work out whenever i can. but with my moderate- to-severe eczema, it can be tough. now, i'm staying ahead of it. dupixent helps heal your skin from within. so you can have clearer skin, and noticeably less itch. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don't change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. ask your doctor about dupixent. ♪ paul: with congress leaving town for summer recess, the biden administration is taking the opportunity to to roll out dozens of new regulations that will cost americans hundreds of billions of dollars. we begin with the transportation department which just proposed a $69 -- 6996-page rule -- 696-page rule that would a raise fuel economy standards or in a move that would effectively require 10100% of new cars to be electric by 2032. let's bring back dan henninger, kim strassel and kate batch holler odell. kate, take up this new big rule on auto standards, mileage standards, because it's -- this is a major impact economically. >> right, it is, paul. to your point, it's basically requiring effectively 100% of new vehicles to be electric by the early 2030s. as we wrote earlier this week, that is more ambitious than even california which is impressive. can now you think that all of this burden on the economy would produce some effect on carbon, but what we see here is that the reduction in carbon emissions is perhaps going to be half as much as the canada wildfires release this year. it's not much of an accomplishment. meanwhile, general motors and others will have to pay penalties and may, in fact, do so if they don't meet these standards. so it's just one of the things that the biden crowd is trying to ram through while most americans are quite sensibly on vacation not reading the federal register or scrutinizing what's a going on. paul: most reporters don't even realize the the federal register. [laughter] kim, give us a couple other examples of what they're doing. >> well, so here's a big one, paul. the national environmental policy act, which is what deals with permitting standards, they've got a new rule out saying that in the future all of these project analyses are going to have to take into account climate -- change and environmental justice. that means as regulators are reviewing, you know, this pipeline, they might have to say, well, you know, would a solar panel make more sense? if so, we're not going to approve this pipeline. the other problem with this particular change, paul, is that nepa was a passed in order to mitigate local environmental problems. they are now widening that to say analyses have to look at the global effects of climb change. all of this is going to make infrastructure projects either impossible or more costly, and ill argue this is another one that's ripe for a supreme court challenge because they are rewriting the fundamental importance of this rule and also undermining the deal they made with joe manchin in the recent inflation reduction act over speeding up some of these regulatory approvals. paul: yeah, this is pretty amazing stuff, dan. if you rook at the total, sum total over the first two years of the biden presidency and now the third year with, he's surpassing whatever barack obama did. i mean, it's an extraordinary number of new major and costly rules, do you have another example or two? >> well, i mean, the politics of this can't be avoided. it's an amazing regulatory tsunami. and this explains a couple of things in our politics; one, why democrats love biden. with biden it's just fire and forget, just pour it on through there, and the progressives in the white house are pushing -- this is the elizabeth warren of the presidency, basically reduce congress to a nullity. paul: right. >> the second aspect, this explains why the progressives are attacking the supreme court or why they want to attack the supreme court. they need a supreme court that would rubber stamp all these regulatory initiatives instead of the one that they have now which is inclined to push back against things as they did with biden's student debt plan. so this really is where the progressives want to take the country. it reduces congress to nothing, but i think as long as the supreme court is sitting there, we are going to have some of these regulatory emissions become major policy questions that go before the supreme court. paul: kate, on this question that dan raised about congress being a nullity, is that -- what can congress do? i know it has the review act which they can override certain regulations with bipartisan -- with votes in the house and the senate, but you've got to get the the president to sign it. he's not going to sign that, so those will fail. but what other recourse is there for congress, or do we have to end up going to court? >> yeah. well, paul, those votes may well fail and not be able to be overridden, but i think they're stale worth taking because i think democrats should have to go on the record about whether they support some of these rules or not. barring that, i mean, the appropriations process is a powerful avenue for republicans to consider as they try to withhold funding. congress has the power of the purse, so that would be one avenue i would, consider. this is a great theme for any republican who's running for president right now. in addition to being a big drag on the economy and growth, this is not how the government is supposed to function. and so i think this is a good subject for republicans to take up in getting that power back to congress and out of the administrative state. paul: kim, the government likes to do this because they can make it very complicated. you write a 700 page rule nobody's going to win, the citizens don't read, the press ignores it because they think it's boring, and yet this is how we govern ourselves these days. this is how government ab acts, and it leaves citizens really at the mercy of people who are unelected. >> yeah, it's outrageous. and, by the way, this is partly the failure of what used to be a bipartisan can coalition in congress pushing back against this, and i think the add° -- administration the bureaucratic state. paul: all right. we have to take one more break. when we come back, hits andfe misses o, f the week. b ♪ledo ♪in glucerna protein smart with 30 grams of protein to help keep you moving. uniquely designed with carbsteady to help manage blood sugar response. glucerna, bring on the day. 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(soft music) [music “this little light of mine”] in the world's poorest places, children with cleft conditions live in darkness and shame. they're shunned, outcast, living in pain. you can reach out and change the life of a suffering child right now. a surgery that take as little as forty five minutes and your act of love can change a child's life forever. please call, scan or go online to give a new smile. thousands of children are waiting. time for our hits and misses of the week. kim, first to you. >> they didn't paul this is a huge mist to the bite administration for banning the beloved incandescent lightbulb. now, many in the process ain't no big deal people are switching to led anyway. but that is not the point the point is americans are stripped of choice if you like the warm thick comes out the incandescent of the particular type of light that gives too bad. joe biden is telling you what you get each comment what you can drive it even what light you can read by. when will it stop? ask kyle because she works look of a mist to home full of republicans and blue states were saying they will block their own parties tax bill unless it expands a federal deduction for state and local taxes often called salt like garcia california congressman says refusing to lift the 10,000 dollars cap on salt would be a middle finger mentality toward his constituents but hang on the middle fingers coming from sacramento. that's where the high taxes are set giving californians a federal tax break because that high state taxes is a subsidy from other states appeared quick spoken by the w the late new jey resident. all right kate. >> paul, might miss this week as to the brouhaha of that the location of u.s. space command person biden says it's going to stay in colorado for trump wanted to move to alabama, some in congress are angry look we have real vulnerabilities in spacex we need more spam likes me better so as to protect everything from civilian gps to u.s. troop movements we've got to wake up to the threat china poses to us in space. i hope these issues will start to command more attention in congress and then mere parochial bickering on where to locate the headquarters. >> dan kuester quick to hit this week the school choice movement which is building on the momentum it got during the pandemic. in the states that have established school choice or educational scholarships, people are applying to get them. arizona, indiana, west virginia and arkansas have all seen upticks especially it is worth noting that it is in republican states led by people at kim reynolds in iowa or ron desantis in florida where this is happening. school choice is indeed proving to be the best way for parents to take control their kids education to see dan thank you for that is it for this week show. thanks to my panel and thanks to all of you for watching hope to see right here next week. ♪ [background noises] cepheid chaos on the work by social media influencers promised to give away free play stations and other electronics but welcome to a brand-new hour of fox news like i am arthel neville. bryan: i am bryan llenas a popular internet star was behind the mayhem yesterday manhattan's bustling union square park. they have freed that influence

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