american public. they are not journalists. they are liberal hacks who don't like or trust the tens of millions of americans who voted for donald trump last election. of course they weren't going to actually cover what a former president of the united states was saying in his own defense, but we will. >> this is a very sad day for america and it was also very sad driving through washington, d.c. and seeing the filth and the decay and all of the broken buildings and walls and the graffiti. this is 5% cushion of a political opponent. this was never supposed to happen in america, so, if you can't beat them, you persecute them or prosecute them. we can't let this happen in america. >> laura: well, shame on the regime media for not having the decency to cover this case as it should be covered or those remarks. but, none of us should be surprised. the "new york times," "the washington post," other cable in networks he they're teaming with unindicted co-conspirator. at every turn they seek to protect the party in power and convict the republicans in a coordinated effort to interfere with the next presidential election. now, this is why their coverage today was reminiscent of how the o.j. simpson case was handled complete with insipid narrations of the scene at the courthouse and at one point what seemed almost like a car chase. >> do you view this indictment differently than they view the mar-a-lago indictment? essentially for the seriousness of it? >> this is where the capitol is so this is how close we are to the capitol. of course, the importance of that in all of this, is not lost on anyone here. they have set up these snowplows for extra security. that's the back of the courthouse. and that is where we believe the former president will go. he will arrive in there, and then go inside and then begin the process of being arraigned. he will be arrested. >> laura: he will be arrested? okay. well, to give you a sense of how dim cnn senior justice correspondent is, trump was not arrested today. this is a summons. he appeared. don't you think walter cronkite would be so proud? to these dunder heads trump is not really a human being. he has become a twisted obsession. is he a vessel into which they pour out their bitterness and their arrogance. and applying jack smith's nifty new legal standards to the past few years, the angle could draft an indictment, oh, yeah, one that charges both joe biden and merrick garland after they leave office, of course, with multiple counts of efforts to subvert the democratic process. with various media personalities as unindicted co-conspirator. biden's lies about his son's business dealings, garland's work slow-walk the investigation into had hunter. and, of course, their purposeful ms. characterization of january 6th as an insurrection. all of this undermined the public's faith in government and, of course, the media the media continue to play right along to misinform viewers and readers, maybe incite them. by election day they have you all believing that a vote for trump, it's basically a hate crime. >> this will be not the trial of the century, the trial of the millennium. >> this is finally the first time that i feel that donald trump is being treated like a normal american. >> i agree with you completely and i feel invigorated. >> the gravity of this time is like i said historic and unparallel since the civil war. >> confederacy, pearl harbor, 9/11, 2001, usama bin laden, donald trump, just like those other threats to american democracy tried to destroy our system. >> bin laden was a terrorist. i believe that donald trump is a terrorist. >> there are literally millions of people who felt traumatized. this is a sense for them to potentially get some accountability. >> oh, but they are never accountable, are they? well, of course, fair elections are how the people traditionally hold their political leaders accountable. but, the people you just heard, they don't really want that here. they need to help short circuit the process. but most of the time they were just struggling to fill time. >> really interesting to show us specifically to show our viewers just how close you are -- just how close that courthouse is to the united states capitol that everything that is going to go on inside that court today really did happen right there. >> laura: really did happen right there. they are so excited though about the trump indictment that they don't just make up crimes. they make up words. >> he is not the first president who thought he got a bad deal if he lost an election. he is the first one to actionize to make it a pattern of actions that try to reverse it. >> laura: actactionije maybe ths on the sats i missed it. that's the "new york times" top reporter. they are positively giddy over the prospect of trump being buried in legal fees, too. >> the former president spent $40 million in the first half of the year from the save america pac, so he also, you know, is bleeding money. >> as you get closer to trial and he is getting closer to multiple trials, those costs only increase. >> laura: oh, they are so hoping. my favorite today probably was when nonlawyers tried to yacht lawyer a real lawyer. >> what is the point of a slate of fake electors if not to overturn a general election. >> the purpose of slate electors have alternate slate available in the event that the primary slate is invalidated. you can't just look at the document and say okay, i don't like this document. but it's not something you can put people in jail for. >> 60 federal judges, mr. parlatore as you well know decided that there was no appreciable fraud. >> that's not accurate. most of those judges rejected the cases on standing. none of those judges actually got to the merits. >> laura: whoops, somebody forgot to put that in the folder. perhaps most disgusting though is how our so-called historians are in on the conspiracy as well. they have lost all gravitas, if they ever had it and, of course, their credibility and now they are indistinguishable from any other random cable guest. >> does it, as a historian, take your breath away a little bit? >> this is a day that we have never seen before in american history. this is an ex-president of the united states indicted and arraigned for things did he in office. we could have lost our democracy, our rule of law the way that we choose presidents. this is something that could have caused us to live in an autocracy and may yet again. >> laura: may yet again get us near an auto an autocracy. the man needs help at this point. is there a fruit basket someone can send him? maybe this is a conspiracy of dunces though after all. because after years of trashing america as systemically racist and branding conservatives as cultist or fascist. they are all somehow aghast that faith in our system is declining. 6. >> 61% of americans in this poll say yes, joe biden was legitimately elected. only 38% say that he wasn't. 69% of republicans say joe biden is not legitimately elected, only 29% of republicans say in this poll that he is. >> laura: yeah. and this divide will probably continue to grow. these people just don't want trump out of politics. this is what you have to understand tonight. they don't just want him to lose next year. they want him to die in prison. this is demented. ever since the election night in 2016, remember all the faces and all the gnashing of teeth on the left? well, the media and political elites they haven't trusted americans to vote for the candidate of their choosing, at least not on a national level. this is why they have joined the conspiracy pretending that they care about democracy as they slash away at it, hour by hour. and they wonder why no one trusts their reporting. if only these so-called journalists got out of hair and makeup long enough to leave the beltway and speak with real americans. if they did that, maybe they could actually learn something. like the fact that most voters they don't want boys in girls sports. they don't want millions of illegals crossing our border. they don't want trade policies that guts american jobs or gas and food prices that go through the roof. yet, americans see that that is what precisely they are getting from the biden team. >> we asked folks what is your confidence level that u.s. elections will reflect the will of the people? a majority of americans in this poll, 58% say little or no confidence. this does not ring of a healthy democracy. >> honestly, it's terrifying. >> laura: well, what's terrifying erin is that the powerful forces in the united states that have trying to prevent americans from determining the future of the country for themselves, they seem to be undeterred. in their lust to take down trump by any means necessary, these unindicted co-conspirator took a wrecking ball to the norms that they supposedly care so much about preserving. and that's the angle. >> laura: joining me now to unpack all of this is john lauro, attorney for president donald j. trump. he was there in the courtroom today. john, they want this trial to be speedy. this was repeated all day long on the other cable networks. they want it to happen before the election. what does that tell you don't? >> it tells me everything, laura, about what's going on about the attack on our constitution. i have talked a lot about how this is criminalized first amendment speech because president trump, like all of us, has a right to redress grievances, has a right to protest an election that he felt was unfair, has a right to campaign on a position. and they have attacked that right not just for president trump but for everyone. but now, today in court, which was a very terribly sad day, they are attacking other parts of the constitution because they want to take president trump to trial in a few months. they want to deny him his sixth amendment rights to counsel, to give me and my co-counsel, todd blanche, an opportunity to prepare. they want to deny president trump his due process rights to look at documents, to get witnesses, to use our subpoena power. they want to deny all of him those rights and a rush to judgment for one political purpose and be that's to uphold the biden administration. make no mistake about it. this hasmaker imarld's handy work all around it. this case was brought. had to be approved by merrick garland. and interestingly enough, why the bumps rush on this case do they feel that there is a problem in the other cases that are being orchestrated and they need to bring this case to trial in a couple of months in this venue. >> laura: they don't want to name any other co-conspirator that would slow them down. if this was such an assault on democratic process which it was not trump left office voluntarily. electors, you know, had the votes certified. all of that. so that all happened. forward as fast as possible so they will let go of the co-conspirator, that's key to that. >> this is a fast moving railroad without any concern for justice speedy trial are defendant's speedy trial. a citizen's speedy trial rights. not the government. the government has an obligation ensure a fair tried in this case we need a journey to the truth. not a railroading an american citizen, let alone a former president. what we have here is a strategic move by the biden administration too get to trial as quickly as possible because, for whatever reason, and we know the reason, they think they can do better here in the district of columbia than they can do in a more diverse state like florida. >> laura: i think that's a harder argument for you to argue because it is very difficult to change venue in these types of cases it hasn't been successful. but i think you are on to something about what they want to prevent. they want to prevent the people from having their say next year. whatever that say is. bill barr, the former attorney general, no love loss between trump and barr, he disagrees with the free speech defense and this is why. >> not attacking his family right. he can say whatever he wants. he can even lie. that does not protect you from entering into a conspiracy. all conspiracies involve speech. and all fraud involves speech. so, you know, free speech doesn't give you the right to engage in a fraudulent conspiracy. >> laura: john, your response to that? >> laughable. absolutely laughable. what's the fraud? tell me what the fraud is. what's the fraudulent speech? donald trump, president trump was out in the open, petitioning the state legislatures, petitioning the courts. there was nothing fraudulent going on. this is absolutely protected faint speech. for mr. barr to say that is a complete and utter ignorance of what the basic law is with respect to freedom of speech. the first amendment protects not only speech but it protects the right to protest and it protects the right to petition for grievances, which president trump did. to characterize this as fraud, when there's nothing being done in secret, there's nothing being hidden. >> laura: they are hanging it all -- john, they are hanging it all or a lot of it on this supposed conversation between pence and trump that pence took contemporaneous notes of where trump said you're too honest i'm paraphrasing. you're just too honest. to say me that's a throw away line. that doesn't prove anything. man, they are hanging a lot on that one phrase. >> good luck. i'm ready for them at trial. i can't wait. something about the conversations between mr. pence and mr. trump. president trump was getting advice from an esteemed constitutional scholar as to an array of options that he could take in light of the discrepancies and what was going on in 2020. those discrepancies were well-known and they were being litigated. professor eastman laid out a series of options that were discussed with vice president pence. vice president pence disagreed on certain issues. but, ultimately, what president trump said is let's go with option d. let's just halt, let's just pause the voting and allow the state legislatures to take one last look and make a determination as to the -- as to whether or not the elections were handled fairly. that's constitutional law. that's not an issue of criminal activity. >> laura: john, august 28th is the next date that you guys are supposed to appear or you'll appear for the next hearing. thank you. we're going to be following. this we really appreciate you joining us tonight. now, what the trump news obscured was the release of the devon archer transcript in its entirety, contrary to the democrat's spin. what's inside is devastating for president biden. of course, they don't want you to know what it is. but we are going to show you in moments before senator josh hawley responds. ♪prov but what happens when you need affordable health care? 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"the washington post," national columnist, phil bump tweeted the just released transcript completely eviscerates what comer and jordan were saying on tv, totally embarrassing. bump on the head. upon the things we learned archer said burisma wanted hunter biden to help get the ukrainian prosecutors off their backs quoting: they were getting pressure and they requested hunter, you know, help with them, some of that pressure. and during goldman's questioning he got archer to say that burisma wanted hunter on the board so that people would be intimidated to mess with them and mess with them legally. archer also revealed that then v.p. joe biden did attend dinners with hunter's foreign business associates including one that took place in the spring of 2014 at the famous cafe milano in washington, d.c. now, that dinner was just weeks after burisma wired 3.5 million to an l.l.c. linked to hunter biden and his associates. and then there is this letter first revealed in tucker carlson's interview with devon archer in which vice president joe biden told archer in early 2011 that he was happy that he and hunter were partners. here is how senator josh hawley is going to respond. i can't wait. senator, which of these revelations strikes you as most important here? again, given the spin that we have heard that's evolved over time from both biden and his co-conspirator and the media? >> well, first of all, can i just say that it's not an allusion when the vice president of the united states shows up to dinner with hunter biden and the executives at burisma. when is he is actually there in person. i believe that devon archer testified that he -- it wasn't a ghost. didn't walk through the door. i mean, he didn't pass through walls. he sat down. he conversed. he ate. so he has had dinners with the executives. he has been on the phone with the executives. what this shows us, laura, everything biden has said in the white house parroted is a total lie. they said oh he never discussed any of this with hunter. false. now we know he not only discussed it, he himself had the contacts with the burisma executives. joe biden himself was there, physically, in the room with these executives at the time as he pointed out they are paying his son to get this prosecutor off their back which, of course, we know joe biden later did for them. so it's really extraordinary. it totally blows up everything the white house has said so far and it just shows we're going to have an impeachment inquiry here to get the facts and to figure out is the president a crook because by the day it looks more and more like it. >> laura: well, man, if don jr. was accused of a hundred of what has happened here the media would be back to breathless commentary. in the transcript, senator, archer is asked about that fbi fd 1023 form and said he wasn't aware of the $5 million payment to biden but, according to the transcript, he was asked does this allegation strike you as credible? now, archer answered in part: the agent explains it pretty well on the bottom and it's similar to, you know, hunter biden taking credit for his dad's visit. it's like sending a signal. so he is bragging to this guy. well, how is that not influence peddling? i mean, unless joe biden is that dumb that it's just a social meeting with all these foreign dig any tears for nothing because hunter is so brilliant at foreign business. >> no, i think that's exactly right. i mean, what you basically have is archer confirming the details of that form, of the 1023. it's significant that that report came from somebody other than archer. so we now have, just to keep the score here, we have multiple, independent witnesses who have come forward to the fbi and other law enforcement agencies and said it looks like both hunter and joe are involved in a foreign bribery scheme. so now we have got multiple different inputs. we have got multiple different pieces of evidence. we have got archer himself in the room with joe and the burisma executives. i mean, my gosh, as we said, this contradicts everything that joe biden has previously told the public. and it just shows, laura, whatever else he is lying about he has absolutely been lying about his involvement. we need get the facts. was joe biden bribed? that's a question. was he bribed? the white house should answer. they should cooperate fully. all of this should be done in public and we should get the facts asap. >> laura: senator, great to see you. thank you. if you didn't think that donald trump could win. wait until we show you the polls and the freakout from the democrats in the media. the pulse of the nation is next. ♪ - [female narrator] five billion people lack access to safe surgery. thousands of children are suffering and dying from treatable causes. for 40 years, mercy ships has deployed floating hospitals to provide the free surgeries these children need. join us. together, we can give children the hope and healing they never thought possible. it's a mission powered by love, made possible by you. give today. an unthinkable genocide took the lives of six million jews and thousands of jewish survivors are still suffering in poverty today. god calls on people who believe in him to act on his word. "comfort ye, comfort my people." these elderly jews are weak and they're sick. they're living on $2 a day which is impossible. they don't have enough money to buy food. it is a miserable situation and they have nowhere else to turn but to us for help. this now, is how god's children are living. take this time to send a survival food box to these forgotten jews. the international fellowship of christians and jews urgently need your gift of $25 now to help provide one survival food box with all of the essentials they critically need for their diet for one month. no vitamins and no protein so my legs and hands are very weak. oh, oh, oh let's make sure that we bring them just a little bit of hope. by bringing them a little bit of food. become a part of the fellowship today by reaching out to bless these precious people of god. for just $25, you can help supply the essential foods they desperately need for one month. your support will provide them with a box overflowing with nourishing food and the knowledge that faithful christians around the world care about them. god tells us to take care of them, to feed the hungry. and i pray holocaust survivors will be given the basic needs that they so desperately pray for to survive. >> laura: in tonight's pulse of the nation we examine not just the current political mood, we are also thinking a then and now. i thought that would be fun tonight. what we see is foreboding for the democrats. to help us understand this our good friends at cnn. in january 2020, 55% of respondents thought things were going very or fairly well in our country. today, under biden, that figure is just 29%. now, in january 2020, trump had a 55% approval rating on the u.s. economy. today, biden is at 37%. and at the end of 2019, before covid, a whopping 76% of americans thought the economic conditions in the country were good. well, today, only 25% of the country. joining me now is mark penn, former clinton adviser and pollster and fox news contributor as well as tom bevan, co-founder of real clear politics. mark, the country is saying it pretty clearly. they don't like this economy. they don't care how the biden team is spinning it, and they keep saying the same thing and they keep thinking on the democrat side in is a messaging problem. where does this end up? i looked at this recently and people are really upset about inflation. they feel purchasing power in food and gasoline prices has really been eroded and they are giving the president a about a 35% rating on the economy. that doesn't mean a year from now when people have attitudes to go to the election will be the same. as your polls point out, voters can change a lot. in '96 for clinton we changed it about 180 degrees in the six months. so right now. things look quite bad for this administration and the economy but a year from now? who knows? >> laura: mark, wait a second. you had bill clinton, one of the best politicians we have seen in the past 50 years in american politics. so comparing clinton to biden who is still trying to find his way off the stage i'm not sure that's an apt comparison. i give you kudos for actually trying to make that comparison. bevin, on another interesting note, republicans are outperforming biden on the handling of the economy, specifically kevin mccarthy and his leadership by about 79 percentage points. again, given the fact that the economy is the number one issue in every single poll, is that signature significant? >> yeah, sure. i think it is. i mean, the economy in this poll was the number one issue by 4 to 1 over the next issue on people's minds. almost 50% of people. so it remains the dominant figure and will be for the foreseeable future, unless something happens, some event happens in the next year, the economy is going to be what this election is about. and so for republicans to have an edge on that it could change obviously. depending on what happens. right now they are in better shape than biden on the economy. >> laura: energy prices are going back up courtesy of the saudis. mark, cnn of all places, seems to be kind of realizing that maybe their candidate isn't the best. watch. >> we don't know how solid a candidate joe biden is. >> we know he is not -- >> exactly. >> he is struggling. it's hard to watch. why is joe biden running for reelection? i mean, this is crazy. >> laura: mark, do the democrats have any other realistic options at this point? everybody seems to want different choices here, i guess. but anyone else out there? >> interestingly, joe biden seems to be consolidating his support among democrats. he is in the 60-plus percent range when i ask now who do you want to be the democratic nominee, he is scoring much higher than, say, donald trump is in the republican party. so, no, i don't think there's going to be a r. another switch here in the democratic party if anything he seems to be consolidating the democrats and the action is going to be over on the republican party is trump going to really consolidate him or is the republican party going to fragment? let's talk about obama's conversation recently as reported that he was basically telling the democrats and biden don't under estimate trump. now, again, obama is one of the best political candidates we have seen in the last 50 years as well commenting on trump that way, what does that tell you, tom? >> well, we see a lot of chatter about this. look, the national polls right now for what they're worth are within a point. biden has a 1 point advantage over donald trump. that's nationally. you look at swing states and it's probably even closer. everybody realizes that a biden-trump matchup is going to be a very, very close election. just like 2020. it's going to come down to the same states, a handful of votes and it's going to be hand-to-hand combat. anybody who thinks donald trump doesn't have a chance, even if is he indicted, you know, a fourth time, even if he, perhaps, is convicted and is on appeal i think they are including themselves. these bases are locked in and going to be that way for the foreseeable future. >> laura: all those unpaid parking tickets those will come due as well. we will see how that affects the election. mark and tom, good to see you. all right, fauci's replacement has just been named. wouldn't you know she is just as bad as the other one. scott atlas returns to the angle, i'm so excited to give us his thoughts on some of her past statements. ♪ ♪ >> laura: a secret medical research lab with ties to the chinese government in california? well, trace gallagher, fox's chief breaking news correspondent and anchor of fox news at night has all the details. trace? >> trace: laura, for those who don't know california, this lab was found in the eastern part of the state about three hours northeast of los angeles near yosemite national park. it was a none descript warehouse but a code enforcement officer noticed a hose coming from the back of the building which is often an indicator that it could be a meth lab. instead, it turns out to be a chinese run biolab. here's the officer who made the discovery. watch her. >> i was shocked, surprised, completely in awe because it was the last thing i would have anticipated finding. i would have never anticipateda biological lab being stored in a warehouse in the manner that it was being stored in. >> investigators were also baffled by the biolab contained hundreds of violation of deadly pathogens, hiv, tuberculosis, malaria along with pregnancy and covid test kits there were more than a thousand mice, most of them dead that were being used in the testing. authorities say the lab was run by a company called prestige biotech which was not licensed in california. the company's president is chinese but all the chinese locations of prestige biotech turned out to be just empty offices. in the past, the company has claimed that it was manufacturing covid-19 and pregnancy tests but there has been no explanation as to why more than a dozen infectious diseases were being secretly tested in a very rural part of california. now, the people connected to the california lab are not talking, which begs the question what are they trying to conceal? the whole thing sounds like an episode of stranger things had except this lab was likely posing a very real hazard and any time you hear about a chinese lab testing deadly pathogens, it's very familiar and very concerning. we're hoping to get more information about this, laura, in the coming days. >> laura: trace, that is such a wild story. i mean, it defies credit deal i can't, thank you so much for joining us don't forget to tune in to see trace tonight at 11:00 p.m. of course. if you thought medical tyranny was dead when fauci retired earlier this year you were wrong. the nih announced her replacement. her name is jean that raz zoe. here is a taste of her covid commentary. >> there is no questioning that covid testing has actually worked. look at the trends in the gigantic of a national experiment really tragic. the human lives. the governors of florida and georgia, which have been very reluctant to implement these measures. if you are a 35-year-old, what is the likelihood and you are healthy that you are going to die. if you are 75, what's the likelihood. 75-year-old. we really don't know when angle was telling you that kids were not high risk, of course she was sayings the opposite. >> when you are seeing kid under 2 years old getting a respiratory virus that is causing them to be intubated that should really wake people up and think very hard about whether they should be wearing masks. whether they should get vaccinated. >> laura: the angle sent human numerous questions over to her office asking if she had any regrets knowing how wrong she was in hindsight they refused to comment. joining us dr. scott atlas former covid adviser at the trump white house. dr. atlas, your reaction to her appointment given that reel of golden oldies we just played. >> yeah, laura, well, i mean, here's the problem, the task at hand for her is enormous. luckily for her she is following a disaster because she is inheriting an agency that is embroiled in controversy, including being investigated for one of the most corrupt scandals in the history with the cover-up of the ohr begin of this and funding the research possibly that was in coronavirus in china's labs when it was forbidden in the united states the task at hand for her is to reestablish trust. the american people have lost trust in science and 60% of people lost trust in pluck health agencies. she has three big problems the first one you have showed. engaged in covid pseudo science. she pushed masks. the data was already proven that masks don't work in this respiratory virus either for protection in a significant way nor for stopping the spread. she pushed masks on young children and he shoe pushed what i think is misinformation about vaccines stopping the spread and denied all the evidence that shows that florida did better than most states including my own state of california she is an advocate. what do i mean by that? the president of the american society of infectious disease praised her for her advocacy. she has written things about equity, diversity, that's not the job. the job for her is very simple. it should be excellence in science, transparency, and accountability to the american people. and then the third problem with her it every single year in funding from the nih. there is conflicts of interest galore when you appoint an insider. will she have the guts to show that she was wrong. apparently she didn't answer your questions. we need with intelling gri at this leading science. science cartel of funding that controls the science. we see it in the emails that were involving fauci and the cover-up letter to the lancet. we need somebody with integrity to stop that and fix science. >> laura: dr. atlas, i hope she changes her mind on these things but i'm not very hopeful. but thank you for that analysis tonight. great to see you. now david schoen and jim parlatore have both represented donald trump. they are here next with their own take on today and what lies ahead. stay there. let innovation refunds help with your erc tax refund so you can improve your business however you see fit. rosie used part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. clink! dr. marshall used part of his refund to give his practice a facelift. emily used part of her refund to buy... i run a wax museum. let innovation refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. stop waiting. go to innovationrefunds.com you really got the brows. we're traveling all across america talking to people about their hearts. ooh, take this exit. how's the heart? i feel like it's good. you feel like it's good? how do you know when it's time to check in on your heart? how do you know? let me show you something. it looks like a credit card, but it is the kardiamobile card. that is a medical-grade ekg. want to see how it works? yeah. put both thumbs on there. that is your heart coming from the kardiamobile card. wow! with kardiamobile card you can take a medical-grade ekg in just 30 seconds from anywhere. kardiamobile card is proven to detect atrial fibrillation, one of the leading causes of stroke. and it's the only personal ekg that's fda-cleared to detect normal heart rhythm, bradycardia and tachycardia. how much do you think that costs? probably $500. $99! oh really? you could carry that in your wallet! of course you can carry it in your wallet, right? yes, yes. checking your heart anytime, anywhere has never been easier. don't wait. get kardiamobile card for just $99 at kardia.com or amazon. >> laura: joining me now is david, former trump impeachment lawyer, attorney for president trump, david, it was reported that several of the federal judges from the district of columbia filled the back row today at the arraignment including the chief judge, james and amy burr man jackson, is that some judicial show of force that we should be concerned about? >> i think we should be concerned about it. so, many of the judges on that court, such a great court formerly, who made so many appropriate, extraneous, gras you to you comments about president trump, amy berman jackson, judge howell and several others, it's very unusual, i don't think it was appropriate,. >> that's all i can say about that. >> i can't imagine federal trial court judges, it's the most ridiculous thing. jamie raskin reacted to the this is what his argument is. >> supporters are going to claim that everything that trump was doing was just free speech which is still because he is being charged with a whole series of actions of conduct that ended up amounting to a conspiracy to obstruct a federal proceeding, it amounted to a conspiracy to defraud the american people. >> laura: tim, your reaction to that, i don't follow their argument on this at all. >> you know, the issue is, you have to look at what he said and what was his intent behind it. and, you know, certainly there are free speech issues but if you're saying something that is knowingly false to try to defraud somebody, that's the -- that's beyond the limits of the first amendment, but here what he was saying i think the evidence is all going to establish, he believed it to be true at the time that he said it, you know, talking to him recently he still believes that there is significant fraud in this election. so, to simply say, you know, he's -- you know, is he not allowed to say that because we disagree with it is not appropriate. >> laura: and other people saying, no, he really believed it. that's just like a he said he said, that's going to be a federal crime now? i mean, david i want to play some expert testimony, i have expert close here from msnbc legal analyst on meaning intent. >> in terms of trump's intent, donald trump told the vice president that he was too honest. i can't imagine anything more corroborative of a corrupt intent than that. >> laura: david, does that make sensor is that just as plausibly a throw away comment from someone like trump who talks in shorthand and so forth? >> number one it doesn't make any sense. number two, if that's what they want to hang their hat on, welcome to it. i can tell you absolutely without any reservation president trump believed then, believes now, and everything that he did and that the election was stolen from him. so, whether one believes that or not he thought he was standing up to the 75,000,000 plus voters who were behind him. and there are a number of defenses here, jamie raskin is wrong, bill barr is wrong, you can't excerpt his speech while leaving out mr. smith, excerpt the speech and say there is no free speech issue here. conduct is protected, if president trump were presented with the evidence that he had and the advice that he had, i would suggest to you that the constitution itself provides a defense. article 2, section 1, the very section that told us originally how a president is elected, requires the president to take care that the laws be faithfully executed. how on earth if he were present weekend this evidence and in that same section he is required to make sure the laws are faithfully executed, what should he have done, it would have defaulted on his only, if he believed what he believed and what he was told. >> laura: you should be on his legal team. tim, quickly, here is how george conway thinks trump can achieve freedom. >> his ticket to freedom is getting elected president so he can shut this down, that's his only way out of this box. that's his play, string it out, in his brain he he thinks maybe he can win the election. >> laura: only way out, he can't win any other way, tim is that right? >> no, elections aside, this is a case that can be won on the merits, there is no evidence whatsoever that would show he had the corrupt intent. everything is going to show he did believe that he lost that that election because of fraud. even if you can convince a dc jury to go along with jack smith's bad theory that is going to get something overturned on appeal. this is one of the few cases right from exception it is going to the supreme court. >> laura: it better, better be resolved correctly. david and tim, that's it for us. don't forget to set your dvr so you don't miss us. jess watters is next. >> jesse: welcome to jesse watters primetime tonight. >> i like to talk. i can do -- >> we don't discuss business at the table. >> we knew it, joe biden did eat dinner with hunter's dirty crew. >> this is a persecution of a political opponent, we can't let this happen in america. >> the trump indictment bac backfiring. >> no more waiting around. the tide is turning. and i

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