shortly. we'll get white house reaction shortly. bottom line, it improved the stock line today with the dow up better than 100 points. largely on optimism that we're not going to go belly up. take what you can get, my friends. welcome. so good to have you. this is "your world." to chad pergram on what has changed and whether the reaction from the markets is warranted. chad? >> good afternoon. mitch mcconnell has just made an offer to senate democrats. this offer suspend the debt ceiling through early december or the gop won't left the debt ceiling. the senate majority whip dick durbin says he doesn't like using reconciliation for the debt ceiling and it's unclear if wall street is starting to get in the ears of both parties against the looming crisis. >> the debt ceiling needs to be addressed. the only issue is who does it. >> has the banking industry called you? >> i'm sure we have heard from everybody and i'm sure the democrats have as well. >> there was a trial balloon that democrats could try to change filibuster provisions but they need the vote of all 50 democrats. that's not happening. senator joe manchin put the kibosh on that. if the sides were to agree to a specific dollar figure versus a suspension, that could buy time. the treasury could make payments and get them to february or march. a procedural vote to overcome a filibuster has been postponed. democrats are now discussing what comes next. neil? >> neil: chad, thanks very much. if all of this has a little feeling of deja vu, you're right. it's happened 78 or 79 times since 1960. why got into those though? john boehner was a special guest on mine of fox business, which if you don't get -- you know the idea. he was telling me there are similarities between then and now. take a look. what do you think of what is going on on the hill? you visited these type of things including 2011 close call that prompted a ratings agency to nick our triple a rating. what do you think of how that compares to now? >> i think it's pretty similar. you know, i told president obama when i became speakner january of 2011 that i wasn't going to increase the debt ceiling without doing something about our spending problem. finally we came to an agreement. unfortunately two days later, the three days later, the president walked from the deal. >> neil: can we do the same thing this time? come close but never go over the cliff. james clyburn now with us, the house majority whip. good to see you. you think we will avoid the brink? >> i certainly hope so. you never know. i don't know a whole lot about the senate business and i won't try to tell them how to do their business, but i don't this deal that mcconnell is offering is a good deal. i think that what he's trying to do is deal with numbers that he can use for headlines against democrats, talking about our increased spending in terms of numbers. i thought we ought to deal with the debt ceiling if you're going to have one. i don't think we ought to have one. since you've got one, let's deal with it in terms of dates. so the ceiling until whatever date. and stop this foolishness of getting -- falling into their trap with a number. >> neil: so you -- i'm curious because you talk about foolishness. republicans have made the same charge of democrats in this spending blitzkrieg here, that have locked you in this position of joining a infrastructure bill with a much bigger noninfrastructure bill. you guys have put yourself in this predicament. what do you say to that? >> well, you know, noninfrastructure -- there's nothing being done here that is not infrastructure. just because it's not roads and bridges and water and sewer doesn't mean it's not infrastructure. >> neil: wait, wait. child care credits on community college or expanded medicare have to do with -- >> a whole lot to do with getting mothers, heads of households that happen to be women, getting them back to work. if you have child care for their children, they'll go back to work. >> neil: that's not infrastructure. right? might be very valid programs but it's not infrastructure. >> well, the president has called it human infrastructure. i think that's a nice way to put it. if you talk about education, schools, construction. how many schools out here cannot be safely attended by kids because they don't have hvac systems that work? a lot of them don't have rest rooms that work. there's schools in my congressional district where the bathrooms don't work for elementary kids. >> neil: we can argue over the semantics. but i do want to look at the cost of, this right now moderates in your party are saying, you know, wait a minute. 3.5 trillion is too much. the president says it's too much. a middle ground being talked about about maybe 1.9, 2.5 trillion. where are you on this? >> i'm for the programs. i have been saying for months now that we ought to stop and how much it's going to cost of doing it and what will be the cost if we don't do it. what is the cost to communities if you don't do this. what is the cost -- >> neil: right now the way it was just lined, about 3.5 trillion republicans say it's higher than that. some of the ideas bandied about is limiting the number of programs or limiting or curtailing their shelf life. let's say a program that would have ended in four years would end in three years, whether it's community college applied to all or just those with special needs. do you think that will be the middle ground that reduces this tab but still gets it done? >> looked like i've had some influence on you. i've been saying for months now that we ought to stop talking about ten-year budgets and look at what we can do in five years. so that $5 trillion comes from a ten year number. i've been advocating do things in five years. put some things off for three years and do it on the back end. >> neil: the rest of your party is considering that? look, whatever clyburn said some time ago that the good idea, let's cut down the duration and do that, maybe because you realize that's the only way to get the deal done? >> i said it this morning, i said it yesterday, i've been saying it for weeks. that we are not yet trapped in the so-called ten-year budget stuff. so that's where that number comes from. what it will cost to do this permanently puts in government speak federal government speak means ten years. so yes. i've asked my partner to take a look at that. quite frankly, i heard some tv reports earlier this morning, some of them thinking about five years rather than ten years. >> neil: all right. to that point then, let me just be clear, you know that -- you know when you turn the shelf life of something and reduce the number, let's say a five year a ten year plan, you know very well that it's very hard to get rid of these programs that ever are initiated five years out. so you know that you'll get your way anyway in that event. because whatever you get, it's something that is hard to take away when they expire, right? >> i have not been secretive about that as well. i've said, let's do it. it will be difficult to take it away. you can take it away. i rather have the difficulty of taking it away than getting it started. get it started. these are the things that we need to do now to get people back to work now. get you back in school now. then look at a three-year and four years out. that's what mitch mcconnell just proposed. he proposed that we don't do this till december. joe biden says we ought to do it until december 2022. so if it's good enough for mitch mcconnell, it's good enough for jim clyburn. >> neil: thanks, congressman. thanks for taking the time. we'll monitor that. fair and balanced. now reaction from rob portman. senator, the congressman has a very good point here. you can talk about making this a little less pricey by taking the time frame from let's say ten years to five years or what have you knowing full well that you'll get your way because it's very unlikely once government programs that initiatives state that they never stop. what do you think of that? >> well, i think that's absolutely true. i appreciate jim clyburn and i appreciate his candor, frankly but that's what i fear. people say that 3.5 trillion, it's more than that. the tax and spend bill. it doesn't include programs that start later like the medicare program for dental as an example. doesn't start for several years. it will continue indefinitely. or other programs that start and stop, but as you say, will be almost impossible not to continue once people start getting the benefits, the experience has been in our country that you continue to get them. it's those mandatory spending programs, entitlement programs that are causing us the fiscal crisis that we're in. so yeah, it is -- that's a problem with the 3.5. it's like 5 trillion when you look at it that way. we can't afford it when we have $33 trillion in debt. coupled with that, neil, the big tax increases, which really slam our economy. >> neil: if it's a smaller package, senator, it means that presumably the tax hikes might be smaller. you think that is the case? >> yeah, but they wouldn't even pay for it because these are programs that will continue. ten years is the convention we use, the way it will be scored by the cbo, a ten-year time frame. so if you -- >> neil: has the cbo ever gotten it right on a ten-year anything? i don't know what i'm going to have from breakfast ten hours from now. i'm just curious -- >> i agree with you on the cbo. >> neil: on the debt ceiling, this is what confuses me. that mitch mcconnell is offering this sort of way to move forward. after talking to market and business types, he was concerned enough to essentially blink. do you think mitch mcconnell blinked? >> no. what i think mitch mcconnell said is consistent with what he said all along. we're not going to default. we must not default and we won't. >> neil: he also said he would never help out. democrats have to fix this on their own. now they're not on their own. >> ultimately the proposals that he makes require the democrats to have 50 votes plus 1 to break the tie. republicans would allow democrats to get on to that kind of a bill, the debt limit votes would be provided by republicans and democrats that are interesting. the increase in the debt is driven by two things. one, the 1.9 trillion package at the beginning of the year, march, where no republican was included on purpose. they did it unreconciliation. that was for covid. more than half of it didn't go to covid. went for social spending. now this big package, the 3.5 or $5 trillion package. a lot of new spending programs that will be in place for probably forever. so this is why republicans are saying, you know, we're okay to let you get to the debt ceiling, have the vote and democrats will likely provide the votes. >> neil: we might dodge a bullet if this comes to pass and the government doesn't shut down or a default to social security -- >> we can't let that happen and won't. >> neil: that seems to be the change here. i don't know if it's the meeting with business and other financial types, the calls that republican leaders have gotten, yourself included, that whatever would happen and whoever is pointing the finger, everybody would raise the finger at you guys if that would happen. is that the impetus for this olive branch for democrats to avoid all of this? >> i think we knew toward the end, we would have to figure out a way forward. you mentioned people being blamed. look at the polling data. most americans blame the democrats. i'm not saying that's a reason for us to do anything or not do anything with the debt limit. we should not default, never have defaulted. i don't think it's true that republicans are feeling pressure. it was more frankly the democrats were feeling pressure and now we're going to figure out a way forward. it may not be as long as the time period the democrats wanted but it will be for a period of time to get us beyond this immediate crisis, get us to next year and the opportunity for us to get this economy back on track. let's not do the big tax and spending bill, which would have the opposite effect. >> neil: looks like that will happen though. >> well, we might get something but i don't think it's going to be close to the 3.5 or the 5 that we talked about a moment ago. looks like something might happen. i hope it doesn't. it's a terrible time for the economy. we spend money in march of this year on the same programs. you know, to race taxes for small business owners as an example, neil, you're seeing a 40 or 50% tax increase for successful small businesses that would have -- they're paying their taxes as individuals. everything goes up, including a small business surcharge, not having the 20% reduction. >> neil: you're right. that is still iffy. they have to work out the details. >> it's far from a given. senator, i want to thank you very, very much. we're monday thorring jen psaki taking questions on this very matter and whether they're indeed kicking the can down the road. >> looking out about concern of human rights concerns and the president led to have coordination on the international stage to address this issue unlike his predecessors. but i'd have to talk to our legislative team about specific views on the piece of legislation. i spoke about it briefly last week. i'll come back with that. steve? >> jake sullivan reached a deal to have a summit around the end of the year. what is the advantage -- >> neil: we'll continue to monitor jen psaki taking questions about the tensions with china and saying nothing about the quasi deal to avoid a government shut down or getting too close on october 18 without any mean in the till. the question is on why the markets turned things around today is that we will avoid that. this might be kicking the can down the road. just the idea that this looks less likely was enough to propel buying even though people are doing head scratching. we're on this and more after this. ♪ darling, i, i can't get enough of your love babe♪ ♪girl, i don't know, i don't know,♪ ♪i don't know why i can't get♪ applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. psoriatic arthritis, made my joints stiff, swollen, painful. tremfya® is approved to help reduce joint symptoms in adults with active psoriatic arthritis. some patients even felt less fatigued. serious allergic reactions may occur. tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. tremfya®. emerge tremfyant™. janssen can help you explore cost support options. >> neil: all right. gasoline prices at seven-year highs. oil prices better than four-year highs. meat, poultry, you name it. looking at three-year highs. all in an environment that could be worsened by all of this government spending so say a number of republicans, it's only going to get worse. susan li with the latest on that. susan? >> neil, you've heard the complaints that your money doesn't go as far as it used. that is true these days when you have to pay more to fill up your gas tank and shopping carts. you're right, oil prices are the most expensive since 2014. there was relief with prices falling for the first time in five days in the reports that the u.s. might step in to release some emergency oil reserves. that is to ease pain at the pump for drivers. natural gas very expensive hitting 13-year highs yesterday but falling 9% in the worst day today so far this year. it's not just oil and gas. cotton and corn are the most expensive in a decade in 2021. aluminum is the most pricy in 13 years. steel and soy beans have never cost so much. so when companies have to shell out more, they pass that on to consumers. that's why inflation is at the highest in 13 years. on a day-to-day basis, americans are also feeling this at the grocery store. food prices jumping over 8% in august. that's the biggest jump in a year since record keeping began ten years ago. the silver lining here, rising prices are a result of an expanding economy, a strong jobs market. we saw that with private payrolls for september coming in stronger than anticipated. 568,000 jobs which wall streets point to a strong september jobs report this friday. that's why symptom markets have been down. a stronger economy means less need for stimulus, neil. >> neil: i want to go back to the white house. jen psaki is taking questions from peter doocy. >> does the president support the fundamental right of these parents to protest at school board meetings? >> of course. but he doesn't stand for the right, i assume you don't either, for people to take violent against members of public servants. that's what the threats are about. no one should. >> john kerry says that after france was cut out after the nuclear submarine deal, he went to the president and the president literally had not been aware of what had transpired. what else are you guys not telling the president? >> of course he was aware of the french being -- let me finish. i know john kerry quite well. he was aware of the french being displeased about the deal with the australians. john kerry speaks regularly to the french as a part of his rol. he's someone that also served as secretary of state. he's someone that i alone traveled to france with him 25 times. he will convey to the president of his read of what they were unhappy about and how to help address it. >> you said this president's first love is foreign policy. why doesn't he know about these things in real time? >> of course he knew about the french being displeased. >> john kerry said he was not aware. >> i would ask you to ask john kerry about the context of his comments. the president and the former secretary are good friends. he relies on his counsel and many members of his security team. that's not what he was intending to convey. >> yesterday the president said that he would be speaking with mitch mcconnell as it related to the debt limit. what has he told him? >> they have not spoken. the president said he's open to as he has shown throughout the course of his presidency having conversations with democrats and republicans when he feels it's constructive. >> they will be speaking? you said they will at some point. >> if it's constructive and moving things forward. >> is the president an honest broker in this process? >> i don't think this is about trust. he's none him a long time. this is about whether you're going to be a leader and take steps that are not based on political calculations and more based on what is in the interest of the united states and the fell faith and credit of the united states. >> the president discussed there was a possibility of a filibuster, carve out related to the debt ceiling. is -- would the president be open for a carve out for voting rights? where does that line get drawn? >> the president was saying there's a range of options that leaders on the hill are discussing. you have reported that or your colleagues from the hill have. nothing more than that. we'll be in touch with them and see what the next best options looked like. what is very clear is there's an easy risk free option here that republicans could allow democrats to vote to raise the dealt ceiling and be done with this today. >> neil: all right. that's an important distinction there that jen psaki just made. one that the president and mitch mcconnell have not talked. this idea of a carve out to raise the debt creeling that would require a simply majority, that might be less of a point here with the wiggle room that the republican leader has granted chuck schumer to avoid addressing this debt ceiling issue that gets closer by the day. i want to go to bob nardelli on this, the former chrysler home depot ceo. i was mentioning about that back and forth and the confusion of the government to shut down and have the money in october, will it not have the money. clearly markets move on it, businesses got in the area of mitch mcconnell to say look, this is a worry. don't let this happen. hence this development today. how important is this whole debt ceiling issue to business? >> first of all, thank you for having me on on a special week, 25-year anniversary. congratulations to you and your feel for as they say reporting fair and balanced news. thank you for that and congratulations. >> thank you. >> on the debt ceiling, i think it's a very, very critical issue. depending upon any colleague of mine, any ceo, the issue is -- i've been in business now 50 years myself. we're always taught that you don't spend more than you can afford. when you have so much cash available, you have to do a prioritization and your return on that investment. that's what's causing the chaos here with some of your guests, that these really aren't necessarily infrastructure programs as we know that by definition in the past. as you say again, not that you're saying social programs aren't important, it's a matter of affordability and how much debt do we continue to pile on. >> neil: does it make a difference, bob, if the overall package is smaller, that could conceivably mean that the addition to the debt -- i agree with you, it is going to be added to the debt. it's not paid for. that that would be at least more welcoming news? >> yeah, again, the definition of free in my vernacular is if you want to have free education, the power is -- the buildings are free, the books are free, the faculty is free. free is when one person doesn't have to pay but you have to pay for everything else. it's a misnomer to say whether it's 3.5 billion or something less. >> neil: but it's not. i think people have to get that distinction. you touched on and something that i raised. the end package, whatever it's costing is not its final cost. if you moonlight and let up certain programs end at a certain time, sooner than thought, it's not as if they're not going to be renewed or go away. so that is your concern. that is the concern of the business community, that it goes on and on and on. right? >> i have never seen a benefit given out that is taken back. go all the way back to health care and how that was used to offset when you have wage controls in place. they offering healthcare. it's never been taken back. a lot of these benefits, not commenting whether they're right or wrong, when you put them on the table, you and i have been around long enough to know you don't take them back. it's part of the budget that you build upon year after year. susan said it right. this issue of inflation, when i was on your program last, you were saying it's transitory. it's turning out to be a lot longer than transitory. it's going to get worse, neil. whatever comes in one side is going out. >> neil: we'll watch it closely. bob nardelli. thanks very much. built in to the cake on whatever spending we get out of this super infrastructure package, whatever you want to call it, the rich will foot the bill. we learned that the rich are good at shifting their money around and the shift has just hit the fan after this. aaaand welcome back to guess the price. sal. what do you do? 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>> yes, they are. this has gone on for decades. wealthy individuals, companies use offshore tax shelters to funnel their transactions through to avoid property taxes, to avoid income taxes, to avoid corporate taxes. so it's not necessarily illegal. it does not present itself as an option to the average joe and josephine that are doing their taxes and paying their taxes every year. what the pandora papers show is that this is fairly extensive. a lot of heads of state, celebrities, a lot of bold names in the list of people that are doing this. so what does this mean for the u.s. and for biden? there's probably not -- this is in the billions of dollars that are going through these places. sometimes the transactions are in the millions, tony blair bought a house. it was through a shell company. he said it wasn't his division. you buy the company instead of the house, you pay less of a property tax on the transaction. he said it was on the up and open. so eight million plus, what would the taxes be on that? not enough to fund the u.s. economy, but you know what this does do? it kind of helps change the sentiment that already is abroad in the land that companies perhaps got too big of a tax cut in 2017, individuals that are wealthy are not necessarily paying their share. probably provides momentum for that argument. >> neil: real quickly, also reveals how clever the rich and the famous can be at avoid paying that. so when democrats plan on getting $2 trillion from them, corporations, too, that number might not get to that number. >> yeah, probably would get to that number. it will have to be other mets of getting there like perhaps spending less and biden has -- >> neil: they would be crazy to do that. >> biden says probably not $3.5 trillion-probably under two trillion. half the companies for the infrastructure bill, for the social spending bill but not necessarily in their current format is what the politicians are discovering. >> neil: well put. thanks, john. john bussey on all of that. the last 25 years i have been doing this and sometimes you get so fed up with this stuff, you want to leave the planet. it's to find our greatness and came through again and again with some of the best names i've talked to over the years here. like stainmaster lifetime stain resistance limited warranty. order now, get your flooring installed with help from lowe's. home to any budget. home to any possibility. >> tech: when you get a chip in your windshield... trust safelite. this couple was headed to the farmers market... when they got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ >> congratulations on 25 years at fox news. what an accomplishment. we are excited for you. if dad was here, he would give you a thumbs up and say "way to go, neil." thank you for the wonderful friendship you have forged with him and now the friendship we have. i am still waiting around. maybe, you and i will be in the seats headed up to the moon or at least into space here one day soon. ♪ ♪ >> what a remarkable -- her father walking on the moon, a remarkable hero, a subset note on tracy. her father, when he was walking around on the moon, rode along the rock and sand in the lunar soil, her name. imagine telling your friends in school "my name is on the moon." it's a reminder of the greatness within us. one of the favorite things i've had this week is looking back at not only are memorable interviews, including those that inspired me -- i had probably the most important and special kind of feeling for the space program. i know a lot of you get sick of hearing that i wanted to be an astronaut, i discovered as a kid that i was too fat to fit in the capital, so i just covered astronauts, some of the greatest of all time. after 25 years, boy, oh, boy, did i have some special treats. >> one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. >> do you get annoyed -- i know you are being congratulated at the white house today -- with the "hero" label? >> we don't think of it that way. we think of it as people who were given extraordinary opportunities in extraordinary times. we are very grateful. >> we would like to dedicate the first step of apollo 17 to all those who made it possible. >> your kids, your grandkids -- you were the last human being to touch that. how does it make you feel? >> humble. i don't often -- i don't look lt the moon and say "what a great guy you are." i do it when you ask me, when my grandkids were growing up. it is always been my moon. ♪ ♪ i was strolling on the moon one day ♪♪ >> i don't why you let off with my rendition of that. [laughter] >> i owe dough might in high esteem -- who started that, by the way? what happened? >> i started it. in those days, i had this bad habit. any time i heard a line that sounded a little like a song, i would start singing that. >> the conspiracy theorist who said you never got to the moon, but it was all a show, i know you're probably done with that issue, but does it bug you with these conspiracy guys on this 35th anniversary are saying come on this very day, but that was the case? >> i don't know how to answer that. they saw the giant saturn rocket to go off at cape canaveral. it went somewhere. [laughter] they saw pictures of a small earth. they were taken from some great distance. they saw neil and buzz on the surface of what appeared to me to be the moon. i didn't see any cigarette butts or anything lying around up there. i'm convinced that we went, but how you convinced someone else, i have no idea. >> i would say all you have to do is consider who we were in a race with, the russians, and didn't we have adequate radars to tell whether we were faking something, wouldn't they be the first ones to find out if we were trying to pull something over on the world? >> you decked a guy who questioned your intent, right? >> yes i did to. [laughter] >> all of you guys have superhuman feats, literally out of this world. you never seem to seek out profiting off of your success. unlike a shallow person like me, who would look for every opportunity. >> that was our job at the time. we did not expect to profit off of that read even life magazine was knocking on our door to have exclusive interviews which amazed me why they wanted to do that. i would go someplace to give a talk, and they were say saying things like -- i thought "why does everybody want to hear me?" >> go nasa, go spacex come i got to compete to compete. >> you have both said -- you both have signs that similar age, i believe six years old. you have made -- they sold out of these things on amazon because of that. any message you want to relay to your son about what you are seeking, what you are doing? >> it's really nice up here, we get a private family conference, so it's pretty nice to be able to share the experience. my wife spent six months up here in 2013. our son has a good idea of what it is like. he enjoys seeing the different modules. you can float around and show your family what's going on. >> all i would ask for my son, i hope he can be on extra good if you're to make mom's job easier while i'm out of town. >> this is how it's going to be. guys like you working in partnership, working with some of these other -- is this the future now? >> companies that are generally not well-run, an enormous amount of money. they can achieve whatever this company achieves. >> are you anxious? >> i am not. excited, but not anxious. we will see how i feel once dropped into my seat. we already. >> this team is amazing. i feel very good about it. my fellow crew mates good too. >> jeff bezos, best i ever! >> we americans are excited on a goal, and some of the collective will to achieve it. even the sky isn't the limit. i know the name of the show was called "real world." some of my most memorable interviews in touching interviews where those who left this world, were out of this world, that began when a brave few decided to seek out the stars, and now enterprises in billionaires are leading us there as well. i think of jean saarinen, who became a close, special friend, may be an honorary astronaut. show respect. [laughs] one of the things i learned from him is numbered out america's greatness, never forget what we can do when all the chips are down and the hopes are many. interviewing astronauts from apollo 11 to countless heroes since, one of the great things about this job, i got to see what is possible when we put aside what we think is impossible. it's a marvelous lesson for us and particularly me, as i look at how grateful i am for everything. ♪ ♪ >> dana: hello. i'm dana perino along with judge jeanine pirro, jessica -- jesse watters, greg gutfeld. 5:00 in new york city, this is "the five." [laughter] ♪ ♪ increasing over a controversial plan president biden's justice department to voice concerns, parents, about their children's education. the department of justice is encouraging individuals to report parents they see as a threat to the fbi.

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