between the president of the united states and the chief justice of the supreme court? >> well, it's really quite extraordinary. i'm not aware of anything really like it in our lifetime. the chief justice, i have appeared before him 37 times in target cases. the adjectives you think about when you think about the chief justice are restrained, bi brilliant, dignified. that's everything donald trump isn't. i think this whole episode demonstrates that. trump is saying some pretty extraordinary things about the courts, things that he's actually just statistically wrong on, like that it's the most overturned court in the last five years. that's not even close to the most overturned court. it's more than that. it's the corrosive attitude about courts and the rule of law. >> this attitude about courts and the rule of law, what's the consequence? >> i mean, it's huge. i don't think that trump is really -- he cares much about