mental representation of bad school was everything that they saw, the kinds of kids going in, the kinds of test scores it got. they sent their kids in, they integrated this school, right. the reverse of what we saw in the south 60 years ago. white kids going into a black, latino school. they've discovered, oh, there's this gem sitting here in our backyard. >> what's fascinating is, of course, you're in a blue state. the blue state, new york. you're talking about this. it's not parents who are making these decisions based on race. there's a counterargument to what you were reporting in your "all in" series. just focusing on the percentages of white students in the classroom is the wrong way to look at it. it's segregation in and of itself that's no longer the problem. it's the quality of the schools themselves, even if they're all black. >> i think we have to go back to the original finding in brown and ask ourselves whether we think that holding is true. the genius of brown was to say there's two ways that race in america play themselves out. one is separateness. black people do this and white people do this. they're apart from each other. the other is hierarchy.