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check, far fewer of these killings would happen. the tucson shooter slipped through the background check system. tighten it up, you'll have less opportunity for folks to do this kind of thing. >> in all fairness, the average nra member probably has a low crime rate. probably a very low violence rate. yet their positions on the constitution and their strict abhorrence of any type of gun safety law allows people who are the bad people or crazy people or dangerous people to get those guns. that's a fact. >> we talked about this before, but the interesting thing about the nra is there's a big divide between what reign and the nra leadership are trying to do in washington and what the average nra member is. >> you say that. i know the politics you're expressing here, mark. good try. but if they didn't want them as their leaders, they wouldn't be paying them. sam, your thoughts about this. be objective here.

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