representatives from the three major consumer reporting agencies testified in front of a house subcommittee about credit reporting practices. topics included accuracy of credit reports and disparities in credit scores between whites and minorities. >> without objection the chair is also [inaudible] to declare a recess of the committee at anytime. without objection [inaudible] the full committee, not on this committee [inaudible] subcommittee are authorized to participate in the day's hearing. as a reminder, i ask members to keep themselves muted when they are not being recognized to minimize disturbances for members who are asking questions of our witnesses. at the staff have been instructed by [inaudible] except way member is not being recognized and there is inadvertent background noise. members are reminded that all house rules relating to order and just core apply to this remote hearing. and those members are also reminded that them they may participate in only one remote committee at a time. if you are participating today, please keep your camera on and if you choose to [inaudible] please turn your cameras. if members wish to be recognized for the hearing these identify yourself by name to facilitate recognition. the panel of today's hearing is consumer credit reporting, assessing accuracy and compliance. i now recognize myself for three minutes to give an opening statement. it is my honor to convene this hearing via consumer credit reporting affecting accuracy and wrote compliance. this hearing will examine the role of the three national credit rating agencies -- i will call them ncras in the consumer credit reporting system that affects the lives of almost all adults in the united states. [inaudible] credit, [inaudible] , housing, insurance, or even utilities, the information provided by the major ncras has the power to either open or foreclose a vast array off opportunities that undergird economic society and social justice for consumers. yet once again, in 20, 20 consumers complain to the tsv about ncra reporting more than any other subject, oppressing complaints about credit repair, debt collectors, mortgage services, credit cards, bank accounts, surpassing complains about predatory lenders, payday lost titles, [inaudible] and usually. the number of ncra related complaints in 2020 was over 319, 000, nearly the double the number 2019. so many, in fact, that for the first time the cscb will be issuing a separate supplemental report to congress did to get to this kind of complex alone. well this trend alone calls for oversight, the cares act imposed new protections for consumers with respect to credit recording. hence this hearing will provide a tiny window into the degree of compliance by the ncras with care ex mandates, at four additional protections are needed. i look forward to hearing from today's witnesses about what is causing the increased level of complaints, whether rising complaint levels are likely to continue, what's been done what remains to be done to address the elevated levels of complaints. potential benefits afforded by alternatives such as a federal credit bureau as proposed by president biden. whether comprehensive reforms are needed and where the consumers need more control over their data. i'd like to thank the staff for the outstanding work that they have done to help facilitate this hearing. i'm grateful to the chair of the full committee, the honorable maxine waters for all the energy that you put it all these hearings and moving us forward. sand finally, i want to thank the witnesses, again, who are appearing today and to our colleagues who are with us as well. i think all of you, and at this time i'm going to recognize the ranking member for his opening fragment opening statement. >> thank you mister chairman [inaudible] other businesses on the committee. i look forward to your testimony. the allocation of credited select blood of the american economy. that, just in, chores and others [inaudible] rely on active credit reports to reflect the potential restore customer, and consumers expect that their credit reports are fair and appropriately reflected out of their financial histories to ensure they may access they may ensure fanduel products at competitive prices [inaudible] to his disputed inaccuracy in their credit report. the fair credit reporting act directly fpl to support an annual report about place to go. the recent quote report disappear be stated that prior to cover 90, the average completes for 300,000 per year. but in 2020, there were approximately 542,300 debates, 54% increase from 2019. a report [inaudible] to learning today from of witnesses about the potential causes for an increase in complaints and with the credit reporting agencies are doing to address that. in march, congress acted to ensure that consumer credit history will not adversely affected us the result of the covid-19 pandemic and ensuring economic challenges. as part of the cares act, congress amended the fair credit reporting act to ensure that comes to consumers were protected during the pandemic, terrifying [inaudible] that accommodations for customers were not included as negative entries on their credit report. the credit bureaus themselves about additional accommodations to serve customers during the pandemic and i look forward to [inaudible] activities during today's hearing. despite many advances and informations innovations in [inaudible] a staggering number of americans who remain unable to access credit. a recent study by the federal reserve bank of new york found that [inaudible] 2018, approximately 26.5 million adult americans [inaudible] 10.7 5% of the population we're not in the form of a credit economy, and [inaudible] did not have a credit history. this so-called credit invisibility in the visit [inaudible] credit invisibility disproportionately affects consumers in rural areas that can perpetuate the [inaudible] access to financial services. while many consumers may not have traditional credit histories, they should be able to leverage alternative examples of the financial health. the [inaudible] payment of sailboat soften, bills utility poles and other palms are indicative of [inaudible] a consumers ability to repay. i hope to learn more about how the credit bureaus are innovating to account for this alternative data, but the outfit for expanding credit available to iron there served or credit invisible individuals. fortunately, someone the other side, including the president, are using imperfections in the current credit reporting landscape to push for radical solutions that would increase prices for consumers, the bad commutation, and make credit lesser valuable, especially for zero [inaudible] and moderate income borrowers. the biden administration has proposed eliminating the private sector credit bureaus, and replacing them with a centralized, nationalized credit reporting bureau run by the. while that [inaudible] is not perfect, nationalizing [inaudible] and eliminating all incentives for sound customer reporting informations will lead to consumers left behind. appropriate government oversight of the credit proportion it lucy said private sector innovation out the most effective means to reduce credit errors and bring about a more inclusive credit system. we've also heard a roving course of michael chorus of my colleagues on the other side colleague eliminate risk based pricing in financial services. the risk based pricing and credit allocation ensures their financial products are essential to ensure that consumers are paying the appropriate place for a product. from thai adequately managing risk and allocation of credit is not arbitrarily limited based on [inaudible] one size fits all description. [inaudible] are prohibited from pricing based on race, nationality, religion, or other demographic characteristics. instead, focusing on the metrics that demonstrably reflect, and accurately reflect, the consumers ability to repay. a year research data from the u.s. chamber of congress illustrates that eliminating risk based pricing and replacing it with a uniform base price of model would raise prices on consumers underdeveloped enough credit to and financial services to low and middle income borrowers. a prohibition on using protective better would not make the system more equitable, but instead dramatically exiled surveyed [inaudible] i look forward to discussing these imported products today, and mister chairman, on a personal note, this will be my last during hearing as a ranking member of the oversight subcommittee has everyone a month to service directing member of the national security and [inaudible] monetary [inaudible] subcommittee. it has been so pleasure serving on the subcommittee with you. thank you, and i yield back. >>. >> the gentleman yields back, and picture would like to [inaudible] have enjoyed working with you as well. i'm sure we'll find additional opportunities to work together. congratulations on your new station in life. now at the chair would recognize the chairwoman of the full committee, the gentlewoman from california, the honorable maxine strollers, for one minute. >> together. congratulations on your new [inaudible] you may be on mute, madam chair. we may be having some technical difficulties. we'll be examined our technology to ascertain whether we're having such difficulty, please allow me not to recognize the vice chair, a person who has been [inaudible] for some number of years. the gentlewoman from georgia, for one minute. >> thank you, mister chairman. and i am honored to be serving in my first hearing today as vice chair of the oversight and investigations subcommittee. on the subcommittee, we consistently uplift those most marginalized, something that i strive for you know that i do in congress. we uncover the information needed to inform that our policy, and oversee that government agencies and programs are indeed working for the people. i'm grateful for the opportunity to help [inaudible] work with the financial services committee's investigative arm, and today will take a deep dive into credit reporting and individuals credit score can determine whether they can do things like buy a house or start a small business, or more broadly, build a better life for themselves and their families, to help hardworking folks get ahead, in the wake of this pandemic, ensuring credit reporting is fair, accurate and consumer friendly will be avoid most importance. i look forward to hearing from our witness today witnesses today and working together with my colleagues on this important issue. and mister chairman, thank you, and i yield back. >> the gentle lady yields back. and the two neglected to congratulate the gentle lady for her new station in life. [inaudible] you look forward to working with you as well. the chair will now introduce the witnesses. and i welcome our witnesses, and i'm pleased to have the opportunity to introduce them. we have with us miss chi chi wu, who is the staff attorney at the national consumer law center. we have miss beverley anderson, who is president for global consumer consumer solutions that equifax. we have mandy anderson, the senior vice president for strategy and operations at experience press credit services. we have mr. john danaher, who is executive vice president for consume interaction at. and also we have finally and there is a partnership. do you think i would mind if this testimony was limited to five minutes? you should be able to see something on your screen that should tell you how much time you have left. and this will let you know at the end of your time. i would ask you to be mindful and quickly wrap up your testimony. and so we can be respectful of the witnesses. and the committee members. without objection, the written statement will be part of the record. and each member will have five minutes to ask questions. i have been given letters that are not available. then we will move to our next speaker. >> it is an important hearing, thank you. and in february, 2019, these hearings as chairwoman, the hearings with the police ceo of f equifax. the national credit union, and the national credit bureau took action to protect consumers. these were meant to fix the broken credit reporting system. unfortunately, consumer credit reporting complaints more than doubled over 2019. and during the pandemic, we have learned what is behind these trends and want to credit bureaus must do to protect our consumers. and i thank you very much and i yield back the balance of my time. >> five minutes. and presentation of your testimony. >> you are now recognized. thank you mister chairman. mister chairman, ranking member bond, members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify today. i am testifying on behalf of the national consumer law center. he had just celebrated his retirement yesterday. and they were the first director from 1969. i mention this because it shows we have been battling this for a very long time. and yet it has not gotten better. in fact it might have gotten worse. there were complaints in 2020. a lot of complaints. nearly 200 complaints. and according to one study, many americans have an issue on their credit report that can follow them across their lines of credit. and these complaints are just challenging for collecting information. we have had fewer evidence than that. the credit repair process is the same for decades, the same old, same old. and a pandemic is demonstrating its economic impact on many americans. the credit bureau did make available once per week. the cares act, with its complicated provisions that stung creditors, and a looming rental crisis, that keeps people from eviction. the fact that nowadays, 90% of homeowners have credit checks conducted on them. and this makes it difficult for marcus summers. millions of americans are being shut out due to credit checks. in a survey, more requested 70% of homeowners, and credit was the biggest barrier. students stay at extended hotels, 600 children without a permanent legal loophole for the credit bureau. simply put, even credit scores have led to terrible economic and racial inequality in our country and it provides a great incentive to check your credit report. the credit report bureau only has itself to blame. more than 10 million americans it refuse. speaking of credit reports, the bureau can say so much about it. but according to a legal case, there are second -- why do they have agreements in it? by the way, the consumer financial protection bureau does not have this advertising. check out the narrow this of the cfpb proposal and see for yourself. here is an example. the reporting -- i would not have known us except i was trying to get a mortgage and my bank showed me equifax your seats for credit report. i called and could not prove to them to their satisfaction that despite all of their questions, that i am in fact alive and not able to get a mortgage due to these errors on my credit report and the bureau's inability or unwillingness of the companies to correct their errors. one reason why credit bureaus might actually not mind credit repair is that they actually don't to a whole heck of a lot when they get a receipt. and it was to the point that an american consumer automatically goes to the information partnership, with no need for verification by the credit bureau. the main job of off your lenders, is to pick a two or three digit code to categorize it, upload documents and send it to the publisher. but for nonexistent or very little work, the -- and they charge 30 cents per dispute. i can imagine more disputes always follow the money. it is time for a public cried registry that is treated fairly, with receipts and does not put credit reporting through to each aspect of american life, no matter how appropriate. i look forward to your questions. thank you ms. wu. we now recognize beverley anderson, for five minutes of oral testimony. >> chairman greene, ranking member barr and members of the subcommittee and chairwoman waters. thank you for the opportunity to testify today i am beverly anderson, chair of global solutions and i am responsible for providing credit and identity products and services and education to consumers. i want to recognize the credit reporting accuracy, a common priority, that equifax fails for consumers, regulators and financial institutions. under the fair credit reporting act, consumer reporting agencies, must meet stringent requirements for accuracy fairness and privacy. i have a personal passion to support financial inclusion and professional responsibility to assist consumers as they consider significant financial decisions. i understand how frustrating it can be for a consumer to be on the cusp of a exciting financial event only to discover an issue with a credit report. when i hear these stories, it strengthens my resolve to do better. the increase in complaints against equifax, and the consumer complaint database is concerning. i interpret the increase, not as an indictment but that the credit bureau system is broken, but rather as evidence that the national credit bureau plays an important role in facilitating the dispute process between consumers and their creditors. let me briefly review three factors. we these contextualize the complaint volume. first, consumers sent more complaints after an issue appeared on their credit report. the covid pandemic presents an extraordinary challenge for consumers. congress moved quickly in early 2020 to pass the cares act, and it included consumer protection such as mortgage forbearance and a pause on student loan payments. as a result, lenders took swift action to try to comply with data reporting provisions. but the uncertainty and the implementation of new accommodations, consumers reviewed their credit reports more often. second, consumers routinely submit complaints to the sea cfpb but there are not complaints about credit actions, but rather disputes about data reported to us. consumer reporting agencies themselves serve as an intermediary between lenders and reporters. and these involve dispute that can involve information provided by a lender or an outdated dress or credit score. they are for, most complaints against a national credit bureau and the cfpb portal should not be attributed to air is made by the credit bureau. and third, the portal has been inundated by submissions from credit report organizations, disputing accurate information and consumer reports. recent internal equifax reviews indicate that 65% of complaints in the portal appear to be associated with credit repair organizations. let me close my opening remarks by reviewing equifax efforts to assist consumers through the pandemic. on april 2020, and at my direction, we quickly launched a covid credit financial resource center, to help consumers understand and evaluates the impact of the pandemic on their finances. i personally conducted public webinars and recorded podcast to assist consumers. as the pandemic took hold, three national credit bureaus collectively decided to provide consumers with free credit reports each week. and in march of this year, we extended this initiative. and in april of 2022, equifax continues to invest millions of dollars to deliver exceptional care to consumers in our care to become the most consumer friendly credit reporting agency. we modernize our infrastructure and modified call center ours, upscale dour agents. my goal is for equifax to be accessible, responsible, caring and efficient at every touch point in a consumer's engagement. i am proud of the work that equifax has done to assist consumers through the pandemic and i pledge to do more. i look forward to answering your questions. thank you. >> you are now recognized what for oral. presentation of your testimony. >> thank you, chairman green, ranking member barr, chairwoman waters and members of the subcommittee. i am vice president of consumer reporting appears for transunion. we have history reported to us by lenders. and lenders use this data to make sound underwriting decisions. they are our information for autos, mortgages, and enable better availability of credit bureau data. this data is blind to factor such as race, ethnicity and gender that helps ensure compliance with the equal opportunity credit act. but consumers and policy makers, they have three clear objectives. they make sure that the information is secure, the information is accurate, and that the information is easy for consumers to access the news. we understand this responsibility and have shifted our focus to the consumer. since the covid-19 pandemic, we will continue through the nation's economic recovery. we respond completely and accurately to all consumer complaints through to the cfpb complaint portal. we believe that these complaints are due to third-party reports that have negative but accurate information in the system. we keep information safe and secure and we are working on our own initiatives and with regulators under continuous information on this priority. and some of the reports that this committee holds, requires accuracy and speed in the resolution process. we believe that this can be done through a robust and continuous process and an examination program which has been administered by the consumer financial protection bureau in place 2013. we have implemented many initiatives as a result. these improve data accuracy. and we reach 100% accuracy. shinjiro requirements are in place to identify and eliminate inaccurate data, and these are included in a consumer file. these reports describe data that has been rejected and why. and provide them with data information about their information and dispute performance. it is transparency feedback from experiences making continues progress in eliminating areas even for data is [inaudible] . an important component of accuracy is to make credit reports accessible for consumers so that they can easily review and dispute arrows in their file. an experienced's online disparate political [inaudible] app makes it easier for consumers to [inaudible] and to [inaudible] the results of the experience experian also supports the cutest goal of [inaudible] financial inclusion and financial literally consumers venus credit in principle. many consumers may not have a mortgage our credit card, but they do make telephone [inaudible] and other recurring monthly payments. experian is now accommodating this [inaudible] a groundbreaking product known as experian boost. [inaudible] notice of consumers. experian food is a great game changer. the last quarter was to safely and easily opt into having monthly payment information on account that are not reported to this areas cras report it directly into the credit pile. experience experian boost [inaudible] financial challenges. some of the more than 6 million pairs have chosen to use experian boost to improve their credit score. [inaudible] financial literacy experian is also providing access to free credit monitoring, free credit reports, free credit scores and financial education to more than 40 billion u.s. consumers. experian it's also partnering with lenders through the oath to see budget reach initiative to identify new sources of [inaudible] data that can be used to improve access to credit for underserved and watching life to compete too much. thank you for inviting me to testify, and i look forward to answering your questions. >> thank you, move understood. and mr. [inaudible] you're recognized for five minutes and [inaudible] . >> chairman green, ranking member bar, chairwoman warner, and members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to participate in this afternoon's discussion of these critical policy issues. my name is john danaher and i serve president of's interactive. transunion it's a global information and insides headquartered company headquartered in chicago with more than 4000 employees in the united states and 8200 worldwide. we seek to help people around the world through the power of information identify and access opportunities that bring a higher quality of life. our consumer interactive segment helps consumers manage their personal finances and create precautions against identity theft. we provide consumers with credit scores, but credit reports, credit monitoring, fraud prevention and support, and financial management tools. we also provide credit monitoring solutions that help businesses response to data breach events. our [inaudible] consumer products are interactive consumer products help americans chief financial freedom and elevate their lives. the fast the past 14 months where unlike any in our history, and we believe all of us must work together to protect and support consumers. transunion recognizes our essential role in the ensuring the fairness and stability of [inaudible] credit market. we are eager to partner with six committee to help all consumers, especially the most disadvantaged americans and those affected by the pandemic. the pandemic were quite novel and can significantly consumer support effort both from the private sector and the federal government. that transunion we immediately pivoted our workforce to remote servicing while still providing consumers at this necessary support they needed to navigate the pandemic. i did it indicates that both lending and the broader economy are normalizing. but a serious challenges continue to persist for many consumers. helping consumers affected by the pandemic secure the financial protection they need has been and continues to be one of our top priorities. we are regularly communicating with lenders, property management firms, scoring companies, and data finishes on how they could [inaudible] finish relief to cup pop [inaudible] programs. it does not come but auto industry to support the policy objectives of the bipartisan cares act. and we are pleased that the provinces at the core of that law are working. we estimate that more than 200 million consumer accounts have been placed in protective accommodations because of the cares act. at the onset of the pandemic, transunion that the effort to expand the availability of recanted reports to all consumers on a weekly basis. we are proud to report that more than 166 million computers have used a fuse our services to access the credit data. it is undeniable that the pandemic is exacerbating previous structural inequalities with underrepresented americans facing unique challenges. matterwe are striving to address matters of racial equity and want to be at the vanguard of defining [inaudible] principles for the next generation of [inaudible] youth. to that end, last year we launched transunion a task force on racial equity, which i lead. as part of this work, we are ensuring that all uses of transunion's products and solutions are consistent with our values and the goal of financial inclusion in the economies we serve. we are also redoubling our efforts supporting the proliferation of alternative data, which is the most direct way to expand credit to historically disadvantaged group. in that way, we are way open with the occ on this project reach effort. treads union believes alternative data is a racial justice issue. millions of underrepresented consumers make [inaudible] utility and other pages payments every month. but the court system office them no credit, officer rent often rendering their credited visible. to transunion this committed to helping americans protect the financial health during and after them pandemic. it's committed to working with congress to [inaudible] financial inclusion and further empower consumers. i appreciate the opportunity to [inaudible] with you today, and look forward to answering your questions. >> thank you, mister danaher. miss kuehn, you are now recognized for five minutes to give an oral presentation of your testimony. >> chairman, ranking member barr, chairwoman waters, and members of the subcommittee. thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to talk about the consumer reporting industry [inaudible] accuracy of credit reports. my name is rebecca kuehn and i'm a partner at [inaudible] the credit reporting privacy and data security practice group. i'm appearing today on behalf of the consumer data industry association, or cdia. representative cdia nationwide credit bureaus, regional specialized pretty broad, background checks, [inaudible] companies and others. the credit reporting agencies here today anti cdia members help the american consumer and the larger economy by maintaining a robust consumer reporting system that facilitates credit and credit and housing transactions nationwide. cdia members are helping to solve the problem of the [inaudible] and credit invisible indivisible population by innovation, by expanding the kinds of data collected such as rental payment [inaudible] utility and telephone and other utility bills. it is expansion [inaudible] other information that allows more consumers to access traditional financial services and to integrate more consumers into the mainstream financial system. the principal law that governs the community [inaudible] reporting act, the [inaudible] requests conservancy reporting agencies [inaudible] maximum possible accuracy of the information in the summer reports. the maximum possible accuracy standard is not one of perfection. it balances the protection of consumers and the needs of [inaudible] . the fda recognizes that actually begins with the data coming this system. the [inaudible] must-have reasonable policies and procedures to ensure the accuracy and integrity of the information they provide to consumer reporting agencies. the cdia altar gives consumers the right to the speed accuracy of information through [inaudible] finishes. to assure accuracy, the consumer reporting agency [inaudible] before they even [inaudible] unfinished data that only close-up of checks and quality control measures before it is added to equated file. the nationwide consumer reporting agencies [inaudible] electronically, using his standardized reporting for that to facilitate the accurate and consistent reporting of data throughout the system. the fda also provides students with the i [inaudible] and to dispute any inaccuracies. this dispute process is an important and necessary component of ensuring accuracy. for this reason, the nationwide reporting agencies have made significant investments in consumer dispute resolutions to make it easier for consumers to identify and correct potential errors in their file. these are outlined in testimony, including a process for addressing disputes related to identity theft. it also is important to recognize that there is a market incentive to ensure maximum possible equity. the credit bureaus, financial institutions and the regulators rely on and demand accurate data to make critical decisions about credit. this demand drives accuracy. in my written testimony i address the credit reporting complaints and why these complaints are not a good measure of accuracy, particularly given the impact of bad actors, credit repair operators on the numbers of complaints. i'll be happy to address questions the company has. and in response to the covid 19 pandemic, the cares act in march 2020, provided a number of significant protections for consumers. these include special reporting changes, and consumers being allowed to preserve their credit history as they work through the challenges of the pandemic. the data shows that the impact of these protections is very significant. the number of missed payments have gone down and national fight go scores have gone up. the nationwide consumer reporting agencies have resources on their website to ensure that there are options and protections under the cares act along with other resources that it helped to manage things during the pandemic. in addition, nationwide consumer reporting agencies have volunteered a number of reports available to consumers, from once per year to once per week to april 20th, 2022. as americans experienced the pandemic, cdia is committed to helping americans manage their financial future. i thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today and i'll be happy to answer any questions. >> thank you. the chair will now recognize members for five minutes of questions. we will now recognize the gentlewoman from california, and the chair of the committee, for five minutes of questioning. >> thank you very much, congressman. i'm going to address this question. following enactment of the cares act, you said, and i quote, it will take a moment to figure out how to execute what has been stipulated by the cares act. so something is bound to slip through the cracks. and quote. earlier this year, the subcommittee on consumer protection and financial institutions held a hearing called slipping through the cracks, which provided a number of legislative solutions to help american consumers and the pandemic. we cannot accept that consumers will simply slip through the cracks. so let me give you one example that we learned that the committee hearing. management attorney, for justice rio grande said, and i quote, many of our clients who have been treated for the virus have expressed concerns over medical debt collection and insurance coverage. there are medical debt accounts, on -- she was also contacted by debt collectors on the same medical that, when her grandson was covered by medicaid. under texas law, the company and that her grandson were responsible for the cause of any medical services provided to them. however, the debt collectors continue to report on the debt and collect the debt. so this grandmother's report, through no fault of her own, was affected while her grandson received treatment he was entitled to. this makes it expensive for consumers to get alone. yes, i know, does this case mean what you said when you said, quote, something is bound to slip through the cracks? end quote. >> thank you, chairwoman, for your question. thank you chairwoman for your question. i appreciate the fact that you have listened to one of my podcast or my webinar. and when i was simply saying is that these were early days of the pandemic, and consumers were literally asking us questions about the various stipulations and protections in the cares act. i wanted to know how the cares act would protect them, while things may change, with things would be different on the reports. and we were simply articulating that there might be things that are confusing. >> i am -- reclaiming my time. thank you very much. what have you done to ensure that people are not simply falling through the cracks? what have you done to rectify that? to lessen the number of mistakes that you make. because this is what is harming our consumers. the mistakes -- you can't correct them once you do it. and we don't get a lot of stuff from the credit bureaus. what did you guys do? >> accuracy is an important part of our -- >> yes, we know that, what have you done? what have you done? >> i am one of the data furniture's. and so since 2012 we have been actively involved in addressing issues of equity in terms of the way we work with publishers, we have an entire team that works on vetting data that is provided to us. and creating remediation plans, quality control in monitoring. and if this fails to meet our standards, our and our standards of data and quality, then we will prevent them from reporting. and -- >> very good, and how effective have you been? reclaiming my time. how much reduction have you had in this kind of falling through the cracks? these instances? >> we know that we have made considerable progress. and -- >> how do you know that? >> we monitor all of the data that we have received and we have made sure that we do this with accuracy at every turn. >> -- give me some numbers. how many? what is different now than before? >> we know that we have created an opportunity for consumers who have -- >> how do you know that? how do you know? >> because -- >> i have to take back my time. but i want to know how you are able to decide that you have been effective. we look at metrics in a number of ways. and we would be happy to bring some of the metrics back to show them to you. >> thank you very much. mister chairman i am going to ask that -- send us back some information and some reports, ms. kuehn, knowing that there are reduced or eliminated, the number of mistakes that cause people to fall through the cracks. i yield back the balance of my time. >> the time is yielded back and without objection, -- at this time the ranking member mr. barr is recognized. we welcome your question. >> thank you, mister chair. the first questions about retro bray pricing. and many rely on risk based products, we space pricing for their products and services. and race and national religion, other immutable characteristics, to give consumers that price. would you consider respects pricing? and what if the government imposed a prohibition on risk based pricing? and had uniform pricing, on the price availability and access to financial services? >> thank you. thank you for your question. the studies that have come out have shown that if we abandon risk based pricing that will result in an overall increase in the price of credit and a lessening of the availability of credit for the consumer. risk based pricing has helped more consumers qualify for credit even if conditionally they would have been declined. and many consumers qualify for credit. >> thank you for that. i do worry about proposals that would politicize the assignment of credit scores based not an accurate data but on other factors, those that should be politically motivated. those that, as you point out, increase the cost of credit for everyone. let me talk to you about president biden's proposal for a federal credit bureau. as you all know and has been pointed out today, president biden proposed eliminating private credit reporting agencies and replacing them with a public government credit bureau within the cfpb. i believe this is an unnecessary federal takeover of a private industry at the expense of taxpayers. ms. kuehn, what are some issues that you foresee with a single government run credit bureau? and please amplify your testimony, which i thought was a point well taken, about the market incentives that are there to maintain the accuracy and improvement of credit reports. >> thank you mister chair. from my background with the ftc, i am very pro competition. we have three credit reporting bureaus right now who compete with each other on accuracy and on innovation and products and services. we believe that the government run private credit pr would still not have the same incentives. it would not have those same solutions for consumers or expand access. a government run credit bureau would leverage the same data that is here already in the system. just as members are looking for different types of data and that type of innovation, it fuels additional interest in the credit market. and the diffidence. we take these as concepts that as a government-run private bureau, would be no more answerable to consumers. under the current system, consumers have significant causes for action. there can be private losses against the credibility and they can take action in court. it is unclear whether a government run credit bureau would be to similarly answerable in court. >> we have yet to hear about being responsive for consumers. but i'm also worried about the politicization that could happen with a single government bureau, and we have seen that with the cfpb itself. so the accuracy of information based on just data and not other extraneous factors, i think that is really important. finally, alternative data, and i will ask ms. kuehn, and whether representatives at the cra can chime in. because in terms of alternative data, i think mechanics are an example of this. we have had an interesting example of this from you mr. danaher. it would have been a credit revision sweep. i think that was very interesting, innovative. how would your innovation using this day to help americans gain access to credit? >> well we -- >> -- >> go ahead. >> -- >> sorry. for those who don't have additional credit history, as good a history that they can build on, to further their credit calls. so folks he went to the credit market, they are younger americans, or immigrants. they are able to leverage the situation that they have already had. thank you. >> my time has expired but there is private sector innovation and credit inclusion, i doubt a government agency would ever be able to do that. i yield back. >> the gentleman's time has expired. we now recognize where she the tlaib, of michigan. for five minutes of questioning. >> thank you so much, chairman. i really do appreciate this important hearing, especially has so many important hearings are directly impacted by the way credit reporting is conducted right now. and so i do have some questions for everyone on the panel. and i think this is so important because credit reporting initially intent has had for credit reporting, and now it is easy for transportation. it is also the major cause for veterans who come back with no access to credit, because they were not here to apply for credit products. or whatever the process is that these private agencies decide, related to with a credit score is. so my question is too many of those on the panel, what does a credit score have to do, when someone has a driving record? what does it have to do with that that driving record? does anyone know the answer to that question? >> i would answer your question, congresswoman tlaib. a credit score should be useful for one thing, and that's credit. it doesn't have anything to do with their driving, with your ability to do a job as a worker, with your honesty. it has nothing to do with your character, but predicts whether there's going to be a 60 to break in the next three years, and it shouldn't be used for housing, and it's shutting out so many low income americans from permanent housing, and then yorktown [inaudible] in a very hot breaking down. >> yeah, and miss which, you should know, many pushed [inaudible] here and just to, the university of michigan did a wonderful study that it would actually help people in the cycle of poverty. the fact that creditors are now being used for, you, no auto insurance, which right now, in my district, we had the highest in the nation, over 5000 dollars average per household. and so, for many of my frontline workers, many of my teachers, who some have second jobs just to pay for auto insurance, because again, the use of the credit score is a heavy weight on the calculation and the rates of auto insurance. does anybody else know what does the credit score have to do with somebody driving record? why is that being considered? [inaudible] reporting credit scores two auto insurance industries, other than making money? >> thank you, representative, for your question. the fcc actually did a study on credit based in shorts stores following the [inaudible] in 2003. and in its look at the stats, these of credit in insurance determinations, found that there was a correlation between the way someone pays their bills and whether or not they're going to cost more as an insurance [inaudible] -- >> so if they can't pay their bills -- i'm sorry, remiss -- if they're low income and they have a hard time paying their bills, and then let's base rates on auto insurance. it has nothing to do whether or not they are dry for. is punishment because they're poor. because the counterpart to pay their auto insurance. that's what i'm hearing when i hear about these studies. but i'm really wondering whether or not you all would support a study of this for impact of using credit scores as a factor for auto insurance rates? would anyone be opposed to that? would you want to know if there were structural racism exists in the use of credit scoring for auto insurance? would you want to know that as a business in the united states? >> representative, the ftc study that focused on credit based insurance course looked at that as part of it assessment, and similar to the federal reserve study, found that the factors that go into credit scores are [inaudible] our neutral. they are probably [inaudible] -- >> even though it has resulted in more black folks getting higher rates of auto insurance than their white counterparts neighbors? [inaudible] so the result, of this disparate impact, miss rebecca -- moves kuehn, you see whatever say here, you can see is neutral, but the application itself, and chairman green [inaudible] he knows this is really critically important to understand when we say different impact, we say it's not direct, intentional discrimination, but in essence, by using the credit score for that, in essence, it's keeping people in poverty. and that has an impact community of color in specifically. it's ridiculous that someone that is a doctor, [inaudible] somebody with a [inaudible] driving under the influence violation, who's paying less, less insurance, then somebody with a bad credit score. not [inaudible] even they don't have a dui on their record. you we're seeing this observer the off at all. your understand that [inaudible] folks that are low income, the ones that are cleaning your hotel room, the ones who are [inaudible] on the rest putting food on your table of the restaurant, [inaudible] the cut afford to pay some of the high cost of living at the united state. they can't even pay the water bill. you're telling me, let's punish them because they can't afford high rates of auto insurance. let's go ahead and sell credit reports to the auto insurance industry. it has nothing to do whether or not they're going to be a safe driver. it has nothing to do whether or not their car is a safe car. it has nothing to do with the length of time it takes them to go from their homes to their jobs. it is absurd that you often with that when we all know it's because you get the new customers, you get customers meeting, they buy your credit reports from you, and you make money off of keeping people in poverty. you see what i'm saying? so it's really hard for me to continue to hear these kinds of rhetoric, and excuses, that come out of the credit reporting agencies. shame on you! shame on all of you! to keep people in poverty in our country, shame on you for targeting black and brown communities. because i. and that's exactly what you do. and when i see, mister chairman, [inaudible] it's so important, when i see the number one issue, the number one reason that we see bankruptcy, personal bankruptcy in our country [inaudible] so i hope this credit reporting agencies report are bill that we [inaudible] financial services committee that partisan in medically necessary guest, procedures that are needed and required, you know, with its out 20 5:37, requiring them not to put out necessary on the credit report, because they needed to live. it is not their fault that they got sick. and because they're poor, the should have been pushed back on a lot to get the procedure done because your poor and you should be able to do in this company. so in this country mister chairman that we continue to have hearings like this to expose the truth. i appreciate, i appreciate, and i yield. >> chairman, i yield. the gentleman gentlelady eels. >> mister chairman, point of the order. can we [inaudible] -- >> let the chair recognizes your first, please. to [inaudible] . >> bar [inaudible] bar [inaudible] -- >> you are now recognized on the point of order thank you, just to make sure we are checking the accuracy of the clock, could you check with the clerk? i think we've had some inadvertent pauses on the time [inaudible] on the clock. would you just check on that, mister chairman? >> i will keep the [inaudible] thank you very much for calling it to my attention. and with that said, the chair will now recognize the gentleman from georgia, mister loudermilk, for five minutes, for question. >> so thank you, mister chair. i appreciate the opportunity to be [inaudible] this hearing. it is of importance and one of the complaints that we can sometimes hear about credit bureaus [inaudible] competition. i and many of my colleagues support competition in this industry and have supported legislation and conducted oversight of the faa to bring more competition to the credit reporting and scoring that the biden administration has proposed eliminating competition by creating another government [inaudible] , a government credit room reported bureau. miss anderson, of experian, what consequences [inaudible] if congress [inaudible] does the government credit bureau? >> thank you for that question, congressman. we believe at experian that the system is working. it does drive competition. it does drive innovation and allows us to bring to market solutions like experian boost to bring in data that is not part of the existing credit reports and allows consumers to expand that information indicated report and allow dentists to use that in order to serve underserved and financially challenged consumers. so we believe that the system works with the appropriate level of oversight by the cfpb and that competition drives innovation. >> well, i appreciate that. and if [inaudible] the tools that we need, it's all about mitigating risk. it's about, you know, lenders want to lend money, that's how they make their profit. auto dealers, they want to sell cars. you know, that's how they make a living. and that the only way that they can't do this and do it affordably in other words making loans at a an interest rate commensurate with the risk is that they know what the rescuers. and in some cases people will be deny credit or they will be charged more credit simply based on the risk and so my fear is that a government bureau is not going to be looking just at the data but had unexpected outcome, that's where we get in trouble. he recent study from the u.s. chamber of commerce indicates that risk based pricing and lending is good for consumers, and that's credit scores predict risk without breyer vice. the other [inaudible] from equifax, good to be discussed why it's so important to have robust credit scores in the credit based economy, and why the count ways it counterproductive to spread negative information on your credit reports? >> thank you, mister congressman. i absolutely believe that it's necessary and important to have credit scores in the economy and it's important for us to understand by using access to data and providing that data to lenders so that they can in fact make fully informed decisions on extending credit to consumers and extended credit to consumers as at reasonable rates based upon the risk. i also think it benefits consumers. consumers have the opportunity to get access to credit and to also get access to credit at affordable rates. the excess off credit scores in the system allows for consumers to get credit, particularly quick, consistent access to credit that you don't see in many countries. if today a consumer can walk off off and auto lot and buy a car because of the ability for vendors to have full information and make a [inaudible] credit decision. so it's important for us to have a fully functioning credit system with full information. >> so, would you would say that it could credit rating system that mitigate risk is good for the consumers because it helps effectively lower the rates for consumers to increase their buying power? if we didn't have this way of determining who is out of greater risk, would you say that the result would be's most if most if not all consumers would pay a higher rate because they have to make up for the bad debt that would be issued by then issued by those who did [inaudible] ? does that make sense? >> yes, i agree. >> okay. mr. danaher, if you know, the alternative data provides major benefit to consumers who previously had little or no credit history. should congress passed legislation to expand that [inaudible] to dating tooted in credit reports? >> thank you, congressman. yes, we fully support the reporting of alternative date deter. we are characterizing it rental payments, utility payments, chair co-payments, because we could [inaudible] equate expense credit access to credit. our access shows that maybe up to 60 million americans who are currently invisible or flooding invisible to the system would become visible and, as you pointed out, lenders want to land. and lenders will figure out how to lend to those folks once they're visible to the system. so, we fully support any effort for the provision of alternative data to us to expand access to consumers. >> following up with that, here is some improvement that can be made, in terms of the updating of credit files promptly. and having to wait 30 days to reflect in the credit report. do you agree that that is a need to reform and can you elaborate on that? >> yes i do. the cra and those standards that were set, there were great advances in technology. technology needed to take and data faster. >> thank you, i yield back -- >> the time has expired. in deference to the ranking member's comment, i do agree that there have been some problems with our timer. in fact, this time we have extended by more than six minutes to the member. but i will try as best as i can to keep an eye on it. and we are working on that topic. with this said, we now have miss adams, from north carolina, who will be recognized for five minutes. >> thank you mister chairman for convening this hearing today and two are witnesses. and the roles that are credit bureau plays is critical. and especially the credit report could mean the difference in having a more expensive product or not receiving credit at all. it has been more than 15 years since congress has done the need reform from the consumer reporting code system. and while we accept that the current system has issues that need to be addressed, we need reporting for all consumers. that would improve the dispute process for consumers, to retain records and provide them with greater transparency. and in time with the accuracy uncompleted items. so we need to ensure that consumers are fully knowledgeable, and have the necessary resources available to them to ensure that their information is secure. mr. anderson, i believe that you all would agree that maintaining accuracy, completeness and transparency, at the bureau, is very important. and after seeing a study of credit reporting years ago, after analysis of the error rates on consumer credit reports, i would hope that you would help us i better understand with that looks like. and indifference to now, with the subcommittee, we have the consumer reporting credit products, in each of the following categories information. trade lines, collections, inquiries, consumer identifying information. ... ... yes, did you hear the question? hello? >> we heard you. >> oh, okay. >> to whom are you addressing your question? >> to both -- to mr. anderson and ... >> mrs. anderson, would you [inaudible] ? >> switch to mr. anderson. >> oh, both anderson's. who would want to answer? ... >> so i would agree, i would step in and go first. accuracy is very, very important. and i would share my perspective a little bit earlier. and there has been work that has been down across the year, on furnishings, clarifying to report and bringing data accuracy into being. but i also believe that there is more work that we can do, just to ensure maximum accuracy. the data that you are asking for, we would be happy to follow up with that. but we just wanted to acknowledge that we -- >> right, okay. thank you. if you all could send that to us in writing. and so -- do we have any other responses? or can you all descend into us in writing? so let me ask you, if you did -- how could you track accuracy in innovation using a product? with innovation using that? miss anderson, what about you? >> thank you, congressman -- congresswoman, rather. i mean, we track those in two ways. we look at all of the disputes that we get from consumers and determine what's the quality of the service was. and as miss anderson pointed out, we can get you that by category so we can follow up and we can report that data to you. the other way that we track it is looking at what's dana furniture is provide us. and look at it by day the furniture. so if we find that we are getting disputes from consumers at a higher concentration from a particular data furniture, we look with them to try to correct it. we try to correct it. and as miss anderson pointed out, we have the same process, we will prevent that data furniture from reporting data to us. and so we have this -- we have on both sides -- >> let me ask you this, is there a broad based public analysis, from consumer credit reports, there is that could be wrong? and those that were in error a decade ago? >> please allow me to answer. we had been gone for five minutes, we will receive the answer, and then the chair will have to move on. the timing that we had, it was accurate with this time. >> yes, thank you. thank you congressman adam's. i certainly agree that more data is always useful, -- >> with respect to these furnishings, we do have fringe reports on different furnishings and this committee may want to ask for that. and there is a massive number of complaints for the cfpb. >> the gentlelady's time has expired. the chair will now recognize this committee, for five minutes for questioning. >> thank you. these credible ports give us insight into how likely things are to be borrowed, to be paid back alone. if the bore has credit history or history of poor credit, then the history of payback is less certain, is their willingness to extend credit at all? in other words ... ... >> mr. mooney, would you please check to see if you have muted yourself? ... mr. mooney, we cannot hear you? would you please check again? >> it's not on mute, can you hear me now. >> we can hear you now, thank you. >> i will extend the time by 30 seconds. >> all right. >> way to measure uncertainty. the copy paid for the risk. can you please tell us what would happen to the cost and availability of credit if we were to suppress the information on credit reports? >> thank you congressman. i think two things would likely occur in that case. one is the cost of credit would increase and as you say, for the unknown, for the risk. secondly, i think there would be a contraction of credit lenders that would be willing to land to marginal borrowers. because they would not have that insight into exactly how that bore were might perform. so ... i think that's risk based pricing dies result in lower prices for many consumers. but it also greatly expands the universe of potential borrowers because you put up the price appropriately. >> got it. next question for ms. kuehn. your testimony on past instances when either legislative or regulatory changes led to improved accuracy of consumer credit reports. do you have any policy recommendations to improve credit report accuracy going forward? >> a lot of what is going on in the past few years, particularly with the advent of the consumer financial protection bureau, this is the first regulator with examination authority. so the ftc could investigates, but the ftc investigations were daily looking at the operations of the consumer reporting operation to help them and look at accuracy. this is an ongoing process outside of the public view. it has made a lot of strides in improving the process. this is why the cfpb announced, this, i knew steady and accuracy. and they are going to look at the different methodology's, hopefully faster than the ten years that took for the first one. and look for these improvements. >> okay, thank you mister chairman, i yield back the balance of my time. >> the chair now recognizes the gentleman from illinois. for five minutes. >> thank you mister chairman and ranking members and members of the subcommittee. the reality is that working class people in communities like mine, for them it is hard enough to rent an apartment, get the jab, buy a house. and a low credit score cannot people out from building a better future for themselves and their families. in normal times it is concerning but right now what congress and the white house are focused on, on building that better and promoting equitable recovery from the covid-19 pandemic, these failures are a real policy problem. we have talked today about the dispute resolution process a credit rating agencies. and someone with a poor credit report, it can wreck their financial future. but these processes can be too automated and they can side with the subject of the report. we have known about this for years. a question from the representative from equifax, and their experience. have your companies have worked together to address issues in the dispute resolution process. and the issues that we are looking at here? >> ... i think the process -- >> will [inaudible] >> the process is a very important for consumers. and we have three ways that a consumer engage with us around disputes and an online dispute processes. this gives them the ability to track disputes, through our contacts center, and as well by mail. we work directly as a intermediary with consumers, as well as with publishers to rectify disputes quickly. we actually have the ability, we have the right information to resolve the dispute, without going through the furniture. and we can also work with the furniture to and we agreed with the other bureau to work together to look across the information. and we do actively compare and contrast the information. so we have done a very good job on behalf of consumers and so i would -- >> miss anderson, can we let mr. anderson take a crack at that? >> yes, at equifax, we have similar processes. we have a dispute process. and consumers reach out to us through their channel of choice. and we also look for ways that we can resolve that dispute and without going through the data function. >> and what stops you from implementing stronger standards across the industry? so that when there is a claim made by a furnisher? >> as miss anderson referenced, under the agreement, we are able to make improvements and look at ways to continue to improve. >> okay, ms. wu, do you think that the industry takes these issues seriously? can companies approved a dispute resolution process themself? or do you think that an independent body or stronger standards would help consumers strain out issues? >> thank you, congressman garcia. i think we need an independent body. incentives are always there for the bureaus to decide with the furnisher. and i doubt that there is any competition for consumers. if i am unhappy with equifax giving my data away, i still can't walk away from equifax. we need an independent body, if i were in ombudsperson with the ftc, or if i were a public credit reporter -- there is no chance to sell this data. a public credit registry would give us a lot more control. and just one more thing, on this risk based pricing issue, remember, this issue caused the mortgage crisis of 2009. >> thank you very much. no further questions. i yield back to the chair. the gentleman yields back. i'm the chair has announced that i mr. kustoff of tennessee will be heard for five minutes. you are recognized. >> thank you mister chair, thank you for convening this hearing and i think the witnesses for appearing. if i could, we know that this process is already covered by this committee. there is one thing that these credit reporting agencies recommend. and that is, whether they choose to do a credit brief. and i think you make the process of requesting a credit brief safe. you have made it reliable. and there are a number of checks and balances for it to be done fairly and judiciously. and ms. kuehn, i would put it to you, the same is probably not true for [inaudible] , for children under 18 years of age. one is, what would you recommend, for a credit freeze, for a child? and secondly, what if anything can be done by your agency and others to make the process easier to request a credit freeze for a child? >> ... >> that's for mr. danaher. >> story, i didn't hear that, congressman. we could have a credit freeze for a minor, or preventing a credit file for being open for a minor, until they are they age. i think it is 16 on our system. and we are currently wrestling with that right now, with that issue. but it is also improving who can set a freeze for a minor. and verify the identity of the person trying to set the freeze, whether a parent, guardian and so on. like, knowing that relationship, between the person trying to set the freeze and the minor, currently right now we have to ask for documentation on that. and people submit documentation so that we can verify that it is being set by the appropriate person. so we are looking for a way to automate that. and make it easier for parents, guardians etc to protect the identities of their minor children. >> if i could, hear about miss anderson's experience, is there usually a way, a usual process or way of looking at the process, to place credit freezes on children? >> yes, there is always room for processing improvement. and we certainly take that seriously. we continue to look at it. but just as a reminder, that the display of anybody under the age of 18 is blocked. so that information would not go out of our systems even if it was in the system of record. >> and the children, still at risk of identity theft, if there was not disclosure? >> there is always risk of identity theft, of fraudsters getting access to personal pii but getting that data from our systems -- >> thank you. >> and i would speculate that in your reckon testimony, you do know, that the credit scores, i think he said 7:10 or 7:11. those are some of the reasons. you all at iq facts, do you know whether that will continue? >> certainly we did have credits for the covid timeframe. and as long as the consumer has access to the kinds of protections that we have seen during the cares act, we imagine that that behavior could in fact improve. i don't want to sit here in forecast with the future would look like. but certainly we believe that the economy is recovering, and we feel positive about whether things stand relative to covid jobs and -- [noise] we definitely feel positive. >> we yield back to the chairman. >> the gentleman's time has expired. [inaudible] the gentlewoman from miss georgia, miss williams, the vice chair, i have congressman garcia of texas next. the congressman from south carolina. you may recognize yourself for five minutes. and perhaps i will be back before that time. and perhaps the chair will recognize itself if not. so i recognized for five minutes. but madam chair i shall return. >> mr. chairman and madam chair now, thank you for helping us talk about such an important issue. this is an issue going back to my legal eight days. at the national consumer law center. and we were getting to some of our client issues. this is a part of our systems, a fundamental part. they have access to our financial parts in place. so access to credit means access to building wealth. this has started on the idea of being fair and accurate. but we have found problems with disputes and accuracies. it's important that we get to the bottom. and it doesn't happen to the degree that we get our consumers. my working class district has many people, many consumers who do not understand the processes of the consumer credit protection agencies. they don't understand whether the credit agencies mean, so it keeps them away from the marketplace. ms. kuehn, i want to start with you. tell us some stories. and my district, it's a 35% latino districts. very significant issue with the literacy. can you describe incidents when there is a language other than english, instances to protect these consumers, the challenges that they would face compared to the average consumer? >> that's a great question, congresswoman garcia. credit reports at this time are not available in languages other than english. they are our letters to credit reporting agencies, saying, please translate the credit report. it should be easy in this setting. and we get a big fat no from the credit bureau. they would not translate the credit report. so how can you check for years and disputes if we can't even read the information? equifax did say they are looking into it. but otherwise it's a big fat no. >> well let me -- mr. anderson, is it true that equifax is thinking about it or is already doing it? >> i represent experience, congresswoman but for us we currently don't offer reports in other languages, other than english. we do have spanish peaking agents that can be reached out to and so we do provide that. we also know that there are groups that provide financial services in the consumers language which may not be english. >> all right, the chair recognizes congresswoman anderson. >> thank you, we are about to launch our first spanish speaking credit report. we are excited about that. we have spanish call center agents and vendors who help us when we have consumers -- >> and the last one, mr. danaher? >> congresswoman, we do make reports available in english and spanish? we do have these agents. we have agents that can answer them in spanish wall. we are looking at prioritizing other languages and trying to figure out what the demand may be for consumers to see what the demand could be four languages in other than spanish and english. >> there are studies that have found that there is different treatment of minorities. and certainly the complaint bulletin that was issued about consumer financial protection bureau, in just april of 2021, just last month, this clearly shows that in 2020, the cfpb found more complaints per capita in minority predominant counties. and these complaints increase at a great rate compared to white majority counties. and madam chair, i know my time is running out, but i want to ask for unanimous consent for the record for a complaint bulletin around some of the items i just mentioned? with that, i yield back. [noise] >> can you please take the chairman's chair and the gavel? >> thank you chairwoman waters and thank you miss garcia. your questions will be submitted for the record. >> right. so my documents are proof for the record? >> yes, without objection. >> without objection. >> i yield back with that. >> the chair now recognizes mr. timmons from south carolina for five minutes. >> thank you madam chairwoman. risk based pricing did not cause 2008. in fact there was a distortion airy influence of subsidizing credit, concealing real credit risk. but with lender support, people had mortgages and home they couldn't afford. i want to begin with that but now i have an actual question. given the data breaches, and the pipeline, i would imagine that cybersecurity is top of mind for you. can you describe the security posture that you all have put in place? and briefly described the efforts that all consumer crowded information is kept safe and secure? anyone that wants to answer that? >> why don't i start since he went friends the equifax breach. thank you for that question, congressman. i would like to say that equifax is certainly focused on security and believes in the work we have done over the past several years, and this has been an industry leader in security. we have put a billion and a half dollars, over the last years putting in talks on security and infrastructure, and multi millions of dollars creating a security response and monitoring system. and we have hired a number of security experts in our company, and we've made this a core tenant of the company. and more recently we have produced the report, called bright sites. this indicates that our company is in the top 3% of security of the top 1000 largest u.s. firms. so we are excited to -- >> sure. and i would put this to anyone else. my question is about the increasing patchwork framework of security regulations at the state level across the u.s.. are your companies concerned that these will be increased? and would you implore congress to take up more space with one nationwide credit agency? >> thank you for the question. a nationwide standard would make it easier to see if consumers can be notified in a breach. but also to make sure that the federal standards are complied with, no matter where consumers are located. >> sure, thank you. and did you want to weigh in on that as well, ms. kuehn? >> -- thank you thank you congressman. >> sorry, sandy. >> we would support a federal standard. >> congressman, yes it is easier for us to have the one standard. >> chairman, thank you. i am interested. and do you also have the compliance cost associated? i would love to understand more. because in considering your substitute budget, that would be hiring an army of attorneys. [inaudible] i appreciate that. before i close, i have another question. and do you include credit spread data in your underwriting? in michigan it is 323 dollars a year. and this is a highly regulated business on the state level. and so it should definitely not involve anyone for michigan. >> the gentleman yields back, the vice chair is [inaudible] and the chair recognizes the vice chair for five minutes for questioning. >> thank you mister chairman. according to a recent cfpb consumer complaint bulletin, consumer complaints rose across the board. and this happens in predominantly nonwhite counties. earlier this year i authored and presented an amendment on the house floor, that would allow for greater equity. ms. wu how important is it to address and analyze racial disparities to advance the broader goal of creating a more consumer financial friendly marketplace? >> it is absolutely critical and it is probably the most important issue facing way she'll disparity on credit scores. and more than 50% of households have fit 50% if i go scores as opposed to far fewer hispanic and african american households. -- this may affect minority communities more because states with lower credit scores are more prone to errors in their credit reports. if you have an 800, that means you have a perfect credit report and you are less likely to have errors. and it should be an issue for anyone who cares about racial justice. >> thank you, ms. wu. also in your testimony you mentioned how important it is to take into account when it comes to negative credit reporting. currently the law provides that a negative credit score cannot walk -- i recently worked with my colleague, alma adams, who to pass relief for those with student loans. tell us about the equitable relief and credit reporting during the pandemic that helped everyday folks experiences ructions and struggling to get back on their feet. >> it certainly would help or worse. these should have the same protections and in fact the cares act, it is important that they all have relief, given the economic dislocation caused by the pandemic and the student loan borders there was a lawsuit and he's had messed up the credit reporting. that's why we advocate for a negative moratorium on the pandemic, a negative information during the pandemic. it is an economic dislocation in the cares act, that provision, it was complicated by the fact that there was a lot of creditors. and that is something that miss anderson worried and warned about may be happening. >> thank you, and with that, mister chairman, i yield back. >> the chair now recognizes mr. gottheimer for five minutes. >> thank you chairman green to allow me me to appear at this hearing. and for our witnesses for appearing today. the united states is the most credit card fraud prone country in the world. 32,000 people every three single day are victims of this fraud. one in 20 consumers may be denied credit due to higher interest rates. another 10 million -- and in the crisis of the covid-19 pandemic, there have been no exceptions, and on top of the crisis i think we can all agree that it is more important than ever for americans to have good access to credit. miss anderson, during the pandemic, your company worked with equifax was, so that americans can access a weekly credit report for free. why did your company still choose not to give americans unlimited free access to their report? >> thank you for the question, congressman. we do provide access to free credit reports on a weekly basis as an industry. experient also provides access to reports and reports to over 40 million u.s. consumers today. and these meet consumer needs. >> right, so you are doing exactly the same that equifax offers? >> i can't speak for the others but certainly experien has expanded its offerings to consumers. >> so since the pandemic everyone has been able to access their credit report for free and weekly basis? >> correct. >> so you have also been concerned during the pandemic, particularly, about americans having information access about their credit? that is for ms. wu. what >> yes. >> hello? [noise] >> we have been concerned about the impact of consumers for their credit records, especially debt collection items. so we have heard that scores have risen and it is due to a number of things. when is that you have a pay sheet for recovery. if you have some things that go up and some things that go down, on average you may get the same scores or some slight optics. what i am worried about is the 18 million lenders facing eviction, that collection items, medical debt, a lot of people lost their employer provided health insurance. when you get medical debt, you get items that hurt your ability to get employment. so these are the things i worry about. i do commend the credit bureau for providing these reports once per week. but i think it should be permanent. i think it is a great idea. >> thank you so much. i am glad we got the chance to work together on this issue. do you agree that it should be made easier for americans get their information for a free. and expand their information access? access on what they paid through for insurance? for their mortgage? and not have this used to deny people credit scores? >> absolutely, it should be easy and fair. easy should not just be a credit report but for the scores. you need to score to know what your credit report is worth. and there should be other risk scores. the company develops all these products, for consumers, although should be available, not just for those with a regular credit scores but for fraud restores, other types of scores. and there should be a fair determination and not only through the furnisher. and that's why the ombudsman concept in your bill was so important. they have the ability to be the referee. >> exactly. and i think the things that can impact your credit score, these things can help consumers get credit scores, credit freezes, fraud d mobility. and help americans lose their credit when and financial stability, and beyond, it's clear we still need this legislation. and not just once and get other ways around it. so thank you so much. i would like to thank our witnesses, and thank you mister chairman. >> the gentleman's time has expired. the chair recognizes himself for five minutes of questions. permit me to ask the witnesses to confide in the following session, i shall hold the question and i shall ask that you simply raise your hand. and if your answer is to be yes or no, and i want you to raise your hand if it's yes or no. looking first, i soon you are very much aware of this. were you aware of the style of this hearing today? the style is the consumer credit reporting on accuracy and compliance? were you aware of the style of the hearing today prior to coming? raise your hand? thank you, to the witnesses who are aware of this prior to today. is it true that in the major business, the record could have an accuracy rate that, if you believe, as a business he should do this? kindly raise your hand. all right, i see one hand. i see a third hand. thank you very much. so all of you agree that this can maintain an equity rates? and that there can be an accuracy rate, period? mr. anderson? >> thank you, chairman. we track a number of metrics that determine and accuracy rates. and right now we are tracking it over 99%. but >> and wet metric would that be? >> that's our accuracy metric that we used to track for years incredible reports. by lenders and consumers. >> i understand that your errors, you are not 100% accurate in terms of the information that you provide? >> correct. >> all right, thank you very much. my next question is for mr. danaher, the question is the same for you, sir. >> mister chairman, credit reports are 98% accurate, when applied to all material with accuracy. so 2% errors are there. 2% of credit reports are accurate with material consequences for the borrower. >> thank you. let me move now to miss kuehn. >> the last accuracy data breach happened in 2012. we know there was another report that they would like us to have, to update the accuracy data. we have a number of measures i and we have the number of data for our furnishings. >> miss anderson, i will have to intercede, i need to know what your accuracy rate is. and you knew what we were going to discuss today and your 2012 data is probably a bit outdated. but what is your accuracy data? >> our data would be similar to the other two bureaus. >> similar, but can you give me a number please? >> i would have to get back to you with a number. >> i would ask that you do so. and i will discuss my dismay that you are not prepared. you are well aware of the sides of this hearing and what you would be asked. let me ask you about this, minorities seem to have higher and error rates. did you keep a record as it relates to the minorities? >> did you keep such a record? >> >> did you receive such a record? ... >> yes, we do not have a state on our file. ... >> no, mister chairman, we don't have any insight. with regard to accuracy and then? , >> mr. anderson? >> anderson thank you, chairman, we don't? mister chairman, have this we data don't have that data. . >> let let me thank the me thank witnesses the witnesses for their testimony for the testimony. as for the, for their timing, time and things have been resources to re-spoken share their. expertise and the testimony today subcommittee. will help these testimonies the subcommittee have helped to advance in the u.s. this and congress congress. we might have. and additional notes for there may this panel which they be additional may questions summit in the writing. that for objection them in writing. days to we ask you for these written witnesses notifications to place the in question. also without responses in the record. objection, and there is extraneous materials materials for the chair and i will remained members to submit written questions for the records to the email address provided for this. this hearing is now adjourned. >> on wednesday morning, tested a ammonium global threat homeland security christopher wray and the director of the counter-terrorism center for the homeland security committee at 9 am eastern online at c-span.org, or you can listen on the free c-span radio app. the -- has been recalled. parents to step children died share their story with executives from fisher price. >> the meeting will come to order. without objection, the chair is authored to declare a recess of the committee at anytime. i now recognize myself with the statement. today's hearing addresses the tragic consequences of people sharing dangerous products and we want to protect americans from this. we will examine the rock and play, it sold by mattel under the

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