Transcripts For CSPAN3 Interpreting Slavery At Colonial Williamsburg 20240714

With the germination and courage with perseverance, programming was designed by her panelist tonight so we could tell the whole story of our community. Blending social history with public history to tell the africanamerican story had never been done before. And quite literally they were making history. This is the first of three panelist discussions that we will have this year. I would welcome you to come back on july 5 that focuses on africanamerican stories and on october 18 you will focus on the future, and are panelist of that discussion will be helping us think about how do we continue to tell the story. I know our panelists well and they have plenty to share with us. Let me begin the evening by introducing our moderator. He began his career as an interpreter. He is now evident of his own company. If you would join me in welcoming richard josie. It is interesting to come home after being in the cold minnesota for a while. To see the work thats being done here to see familiar faces and to see them have the opportunity to speak before you all and have a shared experience with you all to learn and revisit in some cases be reminded of it not being just 40 years, i would just say a long time. A lot of hard work. A lot of sharing, caring. Supporting. Let me start by introducing the folks on the panel, i begin by introducing dr. Fellow. [ applause ] kristi i think we had previous conversations, and we talk about for years which puts us back to 1979. However he heard something here that mitchell said earlier that there had been some work happening in the early 40s. Before we start getting into 79 and on. I will start an entire frame before that. At that point in time their part of the 40s. It was kind of interesting. About the 70s, and i dont think theres only been one African American of a to that point. Nonetheless, he was a drummer and later on theres more africanamericans with the piping drum. I think what he was speaking of is when i think in the 50s there is really an effort to look at africanAmerican History and how it can be interpreted. At that time theres been stories that had came on about people who were in the buildings. This is where they stayed, and they lived there so they put costumes on and went downstairs to interpret the condition the kitchen. That was something that i dont know how that came about. I dont know what they interpreted, but they interpreted the history down there, and it was in the kitchen. They would tell you, i am cooking. I am the blacksmith. They were more craftspeople than interpreting African American history. I think there was a need for a representative throughout the foundation. The focus wasnt through the africanAmerican History. And they were in costumes they still didnt want to talk about it, because they were craftsmen. They wanted to be very honest. You didnt want them to be. If you wanted ask a space could raise the questions it shot real quick. Unless you are hired and trained to interpret the history. They can take on that burden. There was always a knowledge that half the population in the 18th century and it was blocked. It was the right time when you started doing, you think about womens history, and when people are lucidly enough. You want to talk about the institution itself and for some reason you think thats a color issue. You understand color, because what we were trying to do. They represented the other half of the population during and to 18thcentury. The refers to you as blacksmiths. They dressed them that way, even though they were forceful, its interesting. In their hiring, many of them focused their attention on what they did , not who they were doing. But foundation understood that they had to have a representative when you we werent being hired to be per se a tradesman, we were hired to interpret one of the most an orthodox ways of interpreting it began to focus on they live in the with. Above. They go about doing his duties he was being used to represent something. That would come if you years later. Is for interpretation and a couple nation a lot of work on the. The americans met. There was still a large gap. Whether you interpret it or not, they are constantly addressing they had been working they do working so hard they were mastering the 18thcentury craft for skills they completely inappropriately, so that is the additional layer to fly with this mix of resistance from black people in some cases and in fact from other interpreters throughout the area this came about. Think there was an important social event that also shows why it was important in 79. It was the right time, and theres no better person to do it. They are speaking of people in the building and costume. You bring people on the streets, and had to come up with what you are now the research is different. Now, your achievements have to be different. Everything kind of changed. Now you people authentically addressed as black folks on the street. You know, because now the black cook is not just the way it black could cook wouldve dressed. When people see black folks on the street with a hat on the going to a kitchen and ask an appropriate question, that is the biggest question. Because they see a betrayal on the street than they say who are you . Theres actual print and theres a person who is actually the one at the shot. Theyre asking who are you . The visitor was also very interested in that person or that individual. That is where we got a great deal of anger from tradesman who really wanted to focus their attention on the trade. On the carpenter, whatever it was, they wanted to focus their attention on that. We want you to ask us about africanAmerican History. We will create these characters that focus their attention on letting you know what life was like for africanamericans during the 18thcentury. These characters fully research in many ways Research Department. Also put the Research Department on the map. They began to ask questions about objects and about material culture. They begin to ask questions about africanamericans in the 18thcentury. Its whom they were historians who had to in some way begin to fill in the blanks of what was going on within the African American community. They were seeing remains that were africanamerican. They were beginning to ask questions and beginning to find new questions to ask. About the 18thcentury. The social Historical Perspective that was coming out around the 80s and 90s. All that seemed to Work Together in a way that allowed us to do interpretive programs that we were very proud of . Maybe a question they wanted to have it on the street, but at the same time a man named peter came from the afternoon American History museum in dc. This was the very First Program that was ever done in historic area. The worst student ever. [ laughter ] he came to me on the first day of class and said, i know how to talk, can i just not do this class at all . He becomes one of my best friends. God only knows. I played the fight for extra credit. What happened was, this was the young man named the shop as a barber. I gave them a call to let her know that he was one of the first characters on the street. Because he was still here. He took a long hiatus. Is nice to see him with the shot. He was in here 40 years ago, but this was the first time people on the streets or through black music. If you ever see this photograph, carter was working in the bookshop. Theyre interested in helping us interpret history. I wrote them down. He was one of the first. Ruth was later. And, that in the beginning even shows that people were willing. Went to craftsmen that were willing to help. They dont want to sound like people didnt want. It just we didnt go through the training of the interpreters on how to, because they didnt have that kind of focus, but now they were getting the focus. They were meeting these people on the street. Also during this time is when children the came to the university and instead they wanted some of our actors. I actually was teaching an acting class at that point. And the chairman of the department called me into his office and said there someone in this office i would like you to listen to and he said he wanted some of our actors to audition to play the parts of slaves at colonial. You dont go to it and make a Statement Like that unless youre three beers short of a six pack, or your causes there. He said we want to begin to talk about the other half of the population. From the time i was a year agoyearold until he graduated from high school i never knew that half the population was black. Id williamsburg is a place where my nextdoor neighbor was the head chef at the old motor house. He was the housekeeper at the lodge. I had no idea that there is this kind of history. I said if youre going to do something positive, it was Darren Taylor and monty who were the first three African American interpreters, and then harvey who had begun the program , what was the name of this character . That was always in the jail in the pillory, and the crowd loved him, because it was a way of teaching history that used theater as a way of introducing and connecting audience to characters that were 18th century characters. While his character was a neer dowell who was always in jail, irresponsible, but the crowd loved him. The next year in 73 or 78, and 79 they fought enough in this new Living History Program that they asked him to hire six other people to help them create the Living History Program. You want to begin this program. In that first year it was pretty rough. Because he had this idea of us being in character never breaking character. But staying in character throughout. After about one week i said this is not going to work. I said this is not going to work. People are getting confused they dont know who we are, they think we are from eastern states. We cant do that, thats not my vision. This is a parttime job for me. I dont need this. We created a program that broke character. I would introduce the character. It was that Living History Program that had the extra burden of interpreting the comparable will history. I remember my grandmother telling me. I remember her telling me about how they rose and how they felt about williamsburg. She talked to me about how long before williamsburg was here a lot of folks are here, and how they were brought up, and how they were going to different places. And even when when i think about you all and i see early time, i dont think i can explain how the community wrote an article just about how your father felt. About williamsburg. My father said we passed by. I looked at a whole bunch of people on the capital. Why is it you never go to see that place . He said because that place points to slavery. I didnt think about it until that day. So, i came on the scene the summer of 1982. I also grew up in williamsburg, and a lot of those people that we are talking about they grew up with people who work in that area. We knew these people. For me, my dad was the sous chef and my uncle was the manager of the cascade. I came to williamsburg unlike them, i came a lot. Walking on the street me and my friends brought bikes. We would joke on the tourists, and all of that. So, the summer prior, i was riding my bike, and i saw my drama teacher from high school. Im proud to say that we had the state champion drama partnership at my high school. One of my classmates is right there. So, im on my bike and i saw them on the street prochain and winters. I stop and i was just memorized by what she was doing, and i thought i want to do that, you know . Back in class i said hey, so you know how can i get in on that . She said first of all, you are too young. They are only working with college age or older, and ive always been a little brass ear, so i dont member who on behalf , my parents called somebody to find out when the auditions might be for the African American programs. So, i went to the audition at 17. They didnt know i was 17. We didnt have applications. To bring our resume. I had my headshot, and i had all of my show stuff. I was good to go. I did it, and then they hired me. While my friends were working at mcdonalds for minimum wage, i thought it was great because i was making a whole lot more money comparatively. Is a few dollars more than anyone else. I was acting, and is getting people to preform. They were patient and they got me the historian to work with. They really came in and really mentored me in the words. Initially it was just an acting job. I didnt think about the power of what i would be doing. I always liked history as a kid and i always understood African American history because my parents were adamant about it when i was growing up. Whenever i had thats for sure report in history class, they would tell me why dont you write about this person . Why dont you write about this person . To share with your classmates, so thats what i did. I didnt have the same anxiety about talking about enslaved people. However, it didnt take long on the street for me to learn. We talked about this in the past. It was within the first week, and i was portraying someone my age, her name is rebecca and she belongs to the blair family. The storyline was that if you died whats going to happen to rebecca . Is she going to get sold off . She going to go off and live with and . It was a tearjerker and i milked it. And then i went out and sat on the barrel out waiting for the next cycling for them to go through, and a man walked up to me and asked me how does it feel to be an active plug maker . I was so taken back by it, but also i said hows it feel to play one, and i jumped up and i went straight to the James Anderson house to break room, and i said, his words of advice stuck with me. In the 37 years since i first started, i changed my life. I will always be grateful. He said to me i understand, we have all been there, i have to ask yourself the question, whether or not your Strong Enough to tell your ancestor stories that nobody else wants to. Or if you arent ready to do that, its okay you can go. You sit here and you think about that. As the interpreters came in and out, i sat there and i was like im doing this. , and i went back out, and i came back every summer. All the plants have been through and out the window. My parents wouldnt let me major in theater. I had during the summer during the summer the Marketing Department will decide this year. They decided they would grow a Department Store i think it was hindi. Big Department Store. In cleveland. They would put Colonial Williamsburg characters this year they would include African Americans in that group. Before they had someone on that floor, and they had a particular floor in the christmas area where they wanted africanamerican interpreters to be. I remember that night they had a large parade that was inside the store, and all of williamsburg characters would be beneficial we were to all parade down, and they will get to the middle of the store, the local williamsburg were there and they were the stars. We came in and we came to the middle of the room, then we would go up the escalators all the way up to the top floor which is where williamsburg was and they would fill in the floors with the other supernumerarys. There i am over in the cosmetics area. I dont know if you remember mary rozman, but she was a part of the group. I am over there, with the light. He had a banner here. He was looking good. Right beside him is mary wiseman. This gal was flowing all around. She was just looking important, but i looked at myself i looked pretty good. Could you come by my how to tell room and tell me why . You put on it and it makes you feel important. It inspires you. It makes you think that the 18th century was a sink went on of what it means to be an american. When i wear the clothes i wear, i feel like a slave. If i am responsible or want to get into my character, the more i get into my character, the worst i feel. To find your piece in it is what she did. She found her piece and that, but it was that day that they understood. I wanted to say this. We owned that. We dont that. We can see. We have no respect for them. They aint got that. We see that his its hard to try to steer advice to somebody who doesnt know that. You can take that that was 79. Thats what you had to have. We will be going to new jersey, they wanted get more tiles than here. We slept in our close. We were there for time. The objective was, we knew that there werent people who would come to waynesburg on their own. They would allow us to go to the community so they might see us and redefine what they thought Colonial Williamsburg represented. You get people to understand that theres a lot of streaks in history. If you will indulge me, i have to name those people in their honor. Who were in that struggle. Is a Storytelling Program we started to do a Storytelling Program, was that called now . We did that two or three years, and out would be a different Music Program every year that we would change up or switch up. The program, theres children using it, and k smith. To start a Performance Program, because the couldnt have children and programming and they werent in the Music Program. We understood the rankings developed a Performance Program where we would have children that would join the program, and they had to know the basic history and became a performer. Basic questions, how many did so and so have, what did soand so mean, that sort of thing. Made a request in his church if any children that are interested, we ended up with quite a few. There is no it could be debatable. For me, theres no greater program than that. You can go right down the list of every young person that i mentioned. They still got it. Weve got doctors thats whats up. We give our children what it is they needed, but they had this background and what we did. Thats important. There is a program called the runaways. They are for outreach programs that went into the schools where we go to the schools, and we do programming and different scenes. Here, we did a lot of programs on this day. A lot. From here to here, the best Musical Program in my opinion. You all read this all about programming. Laverne, was a Laverne Johnson . Laverne johnson. Felix simmons, rose mcafee, amelia james. She was untrained, and she went into the music teacher room and encouraged beethoven. The asked her where she learned. She said i can read music. She was amazing. I wonder where she is. She one for costume design. Thats right. Gray james, Dennis Kennedy and theres people that you dont know. Yeah. All right. Charlie busch, jeremy friede, kristin beverly, kim seller, reggie butler, im gonna throw them all in there. Eugene brown the guys in the historic home buildings, they can do a lot without them. Then we have john moon, Charlie Brown at t grant, along with victor, and jimmy curtis, pamela mendoza. And think you married . mary i just wanted to put their names out there, because of the accomplishments of the beginning. And for the first 10 years, without those folks and others because i didnt say linda row or i did okay. You didnt say pat gibbs. Ive been trying to think of her name all day. It came just now pat gibbs. A shout out to Carrie Carson because carrie, was the one who took social history, and this new look, and what is the history from the bottom up. Carrie was the one that took that seriously. Gave us the privilege of meeting with john, and harry and kevin kelly and luke powers and a bunch of historians so many ways, to make sure we were legitimate. I can say that too much you had to know you have to know, your history. And it cannot be a mystery. If others are going to not only learn from you, but see you as a legitimate teacher. What donald said earlier, about it is very important that you know your history, in many ways it is your only dissent when youre out there on the street, by yourself, and someone comes and says something asinine to you, it is your history. That will allow you to move yourself, above the perception that they have tapped onto you simply by looking at you. So history is very important, and carrie understood that all the other historians understood that, they were right with us as we created our characters to make sure that what we did, and what we said were legitimate. Those people who said oh theyre just playing history, there were people in the foundation who were employees saying, oh they are just playing i doing this or playing at doing that. But, we did more research than most in terms of making sure we were ready to hit that street, not only because we wanted to be authentic, but it was our armor against so many, who did not wish us well. I think, i will add to that, and coming to work and then working with rex and others, at such a young age the value of the historical record, was drilled into us. We could not be lazy and repeat what you heard from someone else. This man used to say, what is your citation documentation for what you said . And you better be tight and be able to go back to that book, and show him, exactly, where and why you made that creative and or intellectual decision of how you did that. It wasnt two weeks of training and then you were done. It was nonstop. And it was an expectation, that you continue to keep it going. I know some people for those of you, that may not know some names that just got rattled off, these are allies, and people in the program, Carrie Carson, specifically was the Vice President for research, charles the president of the foundation for years, so that is to some of these other people were from the front lines, to be other historical interpreters to take the words with us. So fast forwarding a little bit. I came back, to the foundation after working in baltimore at another museum, to finish some academic work. I came back to williamsburg in 1989, and at that point, there was a lot of transition. The africanamerican programs were no longer just a subset it had become its own department. There was the experiment at the benjamin powerhouse, and the women that i worked with bayer, were extraordinary and it was an extraordinary experience. Or experiment rather we were living a day of her life. So we had and we did stay in character, all day. We had to learn, particular skills of your character. So i you know the training to six months. He was like Program Manager and came out of the Research Department and barney had us, me and rose and john lowe, who has also passed on. We had to learn everything from needlepoint to going into the Cooking Program we had to learn a certain level of midwifery we had to learn all this stuff so we could legitimately play that role. Asked for the first couple of weeks we had problems. Because two black women and the next white man and white woman were supposed be our owners and health. We had to set the stage for what we were doing, and historical interpreters would give the orientation to the visitors in the lumbar house and then take them through the building while we were going about our lives in the the visitors could ask them questions and whatever. So we had made a strategic decision that my character, kate, she was a bit surly. And, she was very introverted. So the question and when people asked her questions, her response was often really kurt and short. And extraordinarily piercing. So inevitably, you know we live in america, we have a really difficult time dealing with the realities of racism in whites promised you, and what slavery did. So we try to soften part of our bargaining. So inevitably someone would ask a question and they did every day, were were they that good to you where they go to you . At least you have your children with you. You know it would be that kind of thing. Which was the matter how well intentioned it still annoying. Unfortunately enough i play the character i could let that be known. [ laughter ] so the problem was, that we were, doing the work of households. So we sat down with barney and i said listen im tired of hauling wood every day. Rose and i are hauling buckets of water working in the garden and working like slaves who want to be clear that we portray them [ laughter ] so, we need to work something out the Landscape Department or something sure enough they did. They made sure we had would already stacked, they didnt just drop it off in the back of the house. They made sure that the gardens were tended to, so i will when we went out there and gathered step up from the garden we didnt have to go to the extra. It was crazy about her trying to deal, but it was profound at the same time pugh. There were people again these historic interpreters that agreed to be a part of this program with us to take people, on that journey. This was, by that point, we are 10 years in. Right the first decade was done and we are looking at how we can be better, theres one person here that i think we need to also highlight who i wish was on the stage with us. Thats robert c watson. [ clapping ] he was the director who came in as assistant director and then he became director of African American interpretations and what he gave us, was that authentic this. He had a wealth he was a scholar in that area had a wealth of understanding about west african peoples, language, tradition, material culture and help us to sect that historical record where despite all the people like marlee brown who is in the archaeology Appointment Department as good as they were, their objects and things they had no intellectual or academic Reference Point for. Robert, help provide that groundwork. So, that was for me and also another extremely important game changer. In terms of the evolution of the program over time. So by that time, will begin to the early 90s, we have robust programming thats going on all day, every day, all over the historic area, and we are trying to and we were you know there is Something Else one of the things, as we were doing this and we were getting more allies out in the field, with the other interpreters the question always came, there were two question that seem to keep coming up, whose history is it . And who has a right to teach it. We are going to these cultural discussions and things like that. And could we, should we even consider bringing a white interpreter and African American interpretation . Where that would be their intellectual and work focus should we, could we . So, when i became the director and 94 of the program, i made the decision that we would try it. That we would do it. Do i regret . No. But, what it did do, is that it created i believe it really did create a false confidence that oh, clearly now everybody can do it, we are training everybody , we may not need the department anymore. We will just break it down into different ways, and it was an extraordinarily painful thing for me to figure this out and how to make it work because i understood the department was not just intellectually focused that we had but it was the thing that rex and everyone has talked about here, it was about a certain connectedness. We lifted each other up when those difficult moments came, so my concern was, where is the support going to be . For the interpreter to split up . Can they, are they, Strong Enough . Given the numbers of people that we have, across the foundation and varying roles, i had hoped, they would be Strong Enough to sustain each other. During that period of transition and it was a crazy period. We organize historic areas three times in three years. It was mindnumbing it was absolutely mindnumbing, trying to keep this cocoon while all of these other transitions were going on, at the end of the day , i think its a program what ended up happening was that nobody had their eye on it the same way, and didnt have the same resources of being at the directors table. There and i thought was a big difference. Just became one of the programs that im responsible for, versus someone advocating, every day for those resources. Again, that was a point for me, of real struggle. During that time. On the Positive Side of it. Is that it did broaden this idea, that all of this is our story, you cannot understand early americana, you cannot understand how we could evolve as a nation allegedly built on the ideals of freedom and liberty and all of those wonderful words that we say in the midst of slavery. So we were able to really dwell into that political, social, emotional, intricacies of that. So, that is when we started pushing this idea, a lot harder. We had white actors working with us, we had folks that were doing the other half tour we had more influence in what was happening on the stories themselves on the historic area so that every house the idea was every building went into, you heard the story from the interpreter. That was when steve was Vice President of the foundation and bob wilburn, who was a big advocate of this. Bob was a huge advocate of this. The first big test really for us was when we did the estate slave auction event. I was a 1994 and our teams, our interpretive team, agreed together we would do it. But everybody knew they could not take that stayed stage and i said i needed there mister freeman, it was a different you know that next decade again was testing what we had done, to see , could we make this work on a larger scale . The way that we said we wanted every visitor to walk through that 52 of the population was black . Everyone had to know that basic fact, and what it meant. I dont think that we talked about the actual structure of the department, and how we got to where christie is speaking of . Rex can speak better than i do that, i know because i was a supervisor of the interpreters entering the program, so in the beginning, when we had African American programs, that was an entity in and of itself, the people that interpreted was the people that did evening programs and those that were in we work called ccp, company of colonial performance. But africanamerican programs was part of that. So anybody that was in costume but did evening programs was fair game to do any of our programs. As kristi had mentioned about the characters, they werent in the same department, but we saw each other, we did programs together, we went to greenleaf cafi to get burgers together. [ laughter ] we talk to each other, and we had a group of people, that were on the same mission and we could share what happened during the day kind of events. Later on, maybe will share more, we talked to the employees , to some of the things that need to be sad but this isnt the right for him to say it. Because, there are certain things that you keep in your house. But, anyway, when they when christie speaking of i have no better use watereddown the mission to water it down the interpretation, by taking you and putting you in different areas, that was nothing new, and have been tried before. But it was not successful. But im trying to say is, we have become a group of interpreters that knew the value , and the strengths of that togetherness, and those who interpreted africanAmerican History. The times are changing, the administration was changing, Vice President s were changing. Things were basically changing. You cannot go back to where we were did not want to take a step back, and things were a little bit different. One thing i wanted to say about the state assail when it started in the protest started and all that happens, i kind of thought like the ring lead and i set off to the side of right before the sale of other items i kind of did that were like hes not beside me and i said you know they do this every year . He said what . The mac is that they do a estate sale every year. He said really . I said yes. Watch because anyone was happening there going to sell lands now watch. The only difference is, the department wanted them to see a face they wanted to see situations, a mother, pregnant, sold they wanted to see a family sold because normally they just sell it sell sally and you dont see sally. But they do it every year. They just want you to see somebody they want to put some heart to this. He said jan and kristi came out, and then Robert Watson came out and said he out now theyre going to sell a man with his tooth missing what listen. By the end of all of that, he said if i wouldve known history, maybe we wouldnt be there. And i said okay, so whoever was in charge of explaining what they were going to see, weeks beforehand, then do a good job. Im sorry i did. Now, no. Go back though and explain to them what youre talking about. You were not just talking to a visitor. You were talking to protesters. A lot may not know about that estate sales. All i know, the reaction to the state cell. Every year there is a estate sale. Every year Colonial Williamsburg did a program in columbus the weekend, called the kings extension weekend. Part of that programming, had always been one of these auctions on the steps of one of the taverns. So, we were still African American programs, and we had a conversation about isnt it about time, that did not happen that originated, in African American interpretation and we took that to barney. And me said, this is what we want to do. And he was like oh my god are you sure . And we said yes thats what we want to do. So i, went out and started talking to local naacp, i talked to you folks in the churches st. Johns for that First Baptist etc. We went out, we all i had a bit in the community what blew it up, was when Richmond Times came. Somebody who didnt know, didnt bother to call, put in this little snippy kind of editorial and before you know it, i have friends call me from new york saying hey i heard youre getting ready to sell black people the tourists in williamsburg . In a like manner you kidding me so we had to heavily, heavily manage the story because it was going in every different direction than you can imagine by the time we got there. It was crazy. Yes it was. I was in arizona. In my barracks room, watching you guys on cnn [ laughter ]. And i picked up the phone and i called burnett and i talked to burnett or jones and rose and, i did want to be in the military but when i saw that clip i wanted to come home. I wanted to be home with my family. Because i know time is running out but there is one thing that has been dead, and we kind of talked about this a little bit and i think its a little bit before we open up for q a, i would love to hear somebody, unpack for me or explained to the people, the togetherness. Kristi you explain the situation you had, and you had a support system. And having been in minnesota it was a whole different environment in whole different situation. I can understand how important that support network was. Amongst you all, and many of the some same folks here in the audience. How did you all get that . I would say, a certain routing and faith, we had a similar faith position. So when we were in points of crisis, or even points of joy there was no hesitation, about holding each others hands and saying a prayer before program. We actually used to do that practically every program. The challenge came later, when we had Staff Members who came in who had different faiths particularly if they were muslim, or we had one person that came in later that was a buddhist, and you dont want to create a environment where they dont feel welcome. But we still have to embrace them in that moment. So, that i would say that sort of initial routing in faith, and lord watch over us kind of thing that requires not only the lord watching over you but you had to watch for each other. So, that was i for me one of the things and then its just a shared experience. Whether it was 79, or 89 or 99, i can tell you right now, there were not a lot of people doing the work that we were doing. Bottom line. It wasnt like you could as a matter fact, despite wherever people landed during that auction, but it did change that other institutions of phone calls and letters that i got, from mount vernon, all of him saying my god if you can do that we at least can be talking about black presence at our site. It change the game in that way. But again, there still were not that many black people, doing costume work let alone in museum work beyond the ethnic specific institutions. We were in a funny place with some of them. Our colleagues in ethnic specific institutions, were like why are you over there doing that . You need to be working in your own institutions where you are really going to be loved well. Is another thing but, that to mean, is what created it. That is the space we had shared experience, we had a respect for the work, we had shared space tradition, and we were just passionate about what we had to do. It wasnt what we were supposed to do is what we had to do. So its different people had come in and out of this journey. Because it is wearing work. It is wearing work. Okay, when kristi was speaking of religion. I remember my problem is i name names. So mohammed was muslim and he came to me for the williamsburg program, is that i want to do a chant before this program i said what kind of chant . He set out the muslim one. I said sing it for me. Any dead economic im not making fun of him, but he did. And he did i said what are you saying . I said write it down. People in the audience that nobody was saying unless you were muslim, but its the fact that he wanted to do something for his faith. We had jehovahs witness, we had white folks, they couldve been catholic or atheists. We dont know, we did have a couple. But you know what, they stayed in the circle when we played prayed, and they held hands with everyone else when we prayed. It had to do that togetherness and purpose. That is what we had you know . That respect of your religion, regardless. It was what we were doing that was what in was important. I came back in 2001, to be Vice President of historic area, one of the first things, i remember doing publicly, was a gathering of the Fire Department and police, and everyone, after 9 11 because there are people here that were visitors who really didnt know how to take what was happening, our entire world changed during 9 11, and i remember Colin Campbell who was the president then said rex, i want you to lead at the ceremony on the steps of the capitol. That was a courthouse. It was a place that we opted it. And we invited visitors and everybody came, i didnt know what to say. I ended up saying at the beginning, we might have come to this country, on different ships. But we are in the same boat now. That, was what i think would answer your question. Whether we were muslim, buddhist, catholic, whatever we were, when we don that costume, there was a shared, lottery that did not supersede faith and religion. But it allowed us to embrace, all of the religions, even those that were questioning whether religion was possible, because we were all in the same boat we were all dealing with the same things, we were all trying to make sense and trying to create dignity and trying to create integrity and trying to educate the public. All of us were trying to do it in our same individual ways we were trying to do the same thing. We were all in the same boat. Im thinking of, those people that i mentioned, and how much more expansive that it is. Because there were many people and some of the Historic Buildings interpreted the guides, who were or just as supportive they did not know how to say anything other than good job although these were group of black folks there were a lot of white folks that were behind us. I did a program at the National Voting Rights Museum outside of salem, they had a group of there was a group there the freedom fingers, and i heard them sing their songs afterwards we were at a picnic table, i said tell me something i would know . And they said we sing money are we saying and they raise money who were being held in jail for civil rights stuff so whenever we did armies music because believe they would see us were the only black people there. They would always be the clan out on the road. But we would do is im not trying to give any away any secrets but we would get them jewish people we would get in their trunk and we would go to separate houses would get in their trunk because when they went by, they and cs. They would to see cars going by re4 am we would meet up somewhere and get back together and then we would get out of town. I said really . And he said yeah you would know how many people helped us. Of always thought about that. Because although as the president said its americans and some people do embrace that because they may have a certain history that is not being told, women you know . Children, thats why i love juvenile Performance Programs children, even hiring people in the beginning, he wanted variety. Its hard to get man, we had to have a variety. So had to have some 5060year old man we had oneto you know [ laughter ] so its a good two its good to have a range of people. Is a lot of support there was a lot of support in the churches, once they figured out what was going on. It just takes a while. And i say all the other doing something positive we like that you. And then i went around to the employees and the people the hotels. Big props to this brother that was at king rounds tavern of the drum major i went on the street i would always salute them. Because the brother would be out theres a brother is a look at thats my man thats my man big props to him, and missed apps. Hundred years old. Whenever she heard the drum she would come and sit there, shed always wave, i would salute her every time. Thats the kind of encouragement the African American programs needed, and if we didnt get it from the left, we get from each other. That was what was important, because we understood that the day was like, what you may have gone through. So i think are running out of time but we want to take a couple of questions. Lets get the microphone for anyone in the program, and anyone that had their name called please stand so we can recognize thank you, thank you very much. [ clapping ] okay. I think your point that the and how did we do this is relative, because in 79 i came in 79 and ricks brought some people that brought some heart. It was not easy. We had to rely on each other i remember as a muslim, we did research and we found there were muslims and that 52 . There were people that never gave up the tradition. And i played that character very often i also played other one. So, we had to deal with those traditions. And i want to share two things that happens, one was it was the night tours, and virginia has its unique rain that comes at night its not really raining but its nasty. I had to be out there at night, and people would walk up to me and i would kind of leap out of them and sometimes i would get up and make prayers or whatever and i got cold, i only had a white shirt on i got cold and i never forget harvey came up to me and said i need a jacket im losing my voice im an actor but he brought me back an old blanket. And he said if you were a slave, this is all you wouldve gotten. That was powerful that did something that kristi said i dont you to misted the word she used, this experience taught me, never to use the word slave again. My people were not slaves they were enslaved there is a difference. Think about that. Second point was i went to quarry island, i carried my costume. I taught at the school for ellis. As i left in tears the students and the teacher said, the african knows of michael jordan, but he doesnt know you. Nobody let us tell our story over those 400 years of our people. You have to think about that. Final point, there are probably only 200 actual tapes of people who were enslaved now in the national archives. Theres not many. In my right . There are not many. So, we did the best we could, and i am doctor ishmael conway this is my wife and we were both interpreters and we took the work on with the Stage Company and we spent a career interpreting. And im very proud and honored to be here. [ clapping ] first of all i would like to say, this has been a real eye opening experience for me. My wife and i moved here to williamsburg because of your story. We did not have a clue, i grew up all over the United States in one of the alltime strangest places ive ever lived was mississippi. I was nine years old and didnt understand and now i get a sense of what the was going on because i was too young to get it. You are to be commended. And congratulated, for putting it out there in terms of the risk and emotional risks that you went on to battle into williamsburg every day, i considered an incredible honor to meet you. Thank you. [ clapping ] i have a question i would like to ask. Can you stand up . Were there any free slaves that were merchants during the 1700 . You mean free black people . Yes. In williamsburg . In williamsburg or merchants that were black that were free slaves . Dont be upset we got it. [ laughter ] i dont know of any, i know of somebody that was in 18th century but i dont know any in williamsburg i dont know what they would be selling . There were people who sort of [ indiscernible ] maybe there were blacks who also had gardens, and sold vegetables and things like that. But in terms of [ indiscernible ] im pretty sure there were but i have forgotten, what i did now. No i did understand. Martha can answer that. I think we are missing some part of that system. If you talk a little bit, meshed into the program . No doubt. The Colonial Williamsburg story. What was the year . 1988, we had alex haley come and help us to open the slave quarter, for the first time we were able to tell, that world story. Is a huge debate that you know about martha, that had us, interpret slave quarters right at the entrance to the estate. They actually change the direction that when you came to carters grow, for you came to Carters Grove mansion you had to pass through the slave quarter in order to see it. What an interesting adventure that was. I can ever forget arthur johnson. Arthur johnson was huge. At the beginning or after the orientation tour is over, they would go there, and there were restrooms and a film that you are given, and then you would come to the back of the center and that would lead you to a bridge to cross, and into Carters Grove proper, and they had a debate and archaeologist debate and bill, they had an argument about whether it was a tanning pit or slave housing. Belt one, and they put slave housing right there, at the end of the path, you had to pass through that before you went to Carters Grove. There were people who would go across the bridge, like they didnt see the slave quarters [ laughter ] there were three buildings and all they would see is a mansion. And they would go make a beeline for the mansion. [ laughter ] arthur was so big, until he could stand and put his hand on one end and the other end of the gate to stop people because as you came off the gate, you could see the slave quarters so art did that, he said there because he knew it was a group of people that would pulse out of the film and come across the bridge. And they came across the bridge, and arthur, i know youre trying to get the mansion but he said let me just ask you one question . Anybody here related to the duponts razor hands . Nobody was an enemy related to the rockefellers . Raise your hand nobody raise her hand. He said, and he pointed to the slave quarter and he said, welcome home. [ laughter ] i shouldve gave him a raise after that. [ laughter ] and then you have the other employees who would say hey why are you going there you need to stop here ill take you there here theres a long line over there come over here [ laughter ] the crazy over there. [ laughter ] i understand i might be the last person that percival first of all i was educated in virginia i went to high school and took virginia history, until i came to williamsburg, got to experience the interpreters. Hold on for a minute. Put it up here. I okay, i have never had this problem before [ laughter ] those of you that know me i never had this problem okay i want to echo the gentleman behind me, in his congratulations to you. My question to you is, where will my great grandchild go, to hear the story that youve told today . Because, it is a compelling story, it is right in this country right now as we experience the great divide. We have to know, we have to know the pain and the struggle, that it took for you, to portray what was really happening in this place it is American History, it is very, very important because those of us that were educated here, did not get it. I am not young while i would like to be young. But i went to high school and Junior High School here in the 60s. I graduated in 73. In hamden. I attended hamden university, but i wanted to know where will we go to hear your story that we are told today . They are recording it so the one thing i will say is the Colonial Williamsburg, has always done an extraordinary job with archiving. One of the things that we promised each other in our sort of free talk would be as emotionally honest as we could, even if we saved names to protect the innocent and so forth by it is being digitized it is being archived at think it will be shared with the employees that wanted to see it first. And then after that i do not know but, thats one thing i will say, they have from photographic record to the videography, and things that were taken over the years. There is a incredible archive here. So my only hope is that they get it digitized, uploaded to the people can get to it easily. That is the key. Beth mentioned there were two other programs that they will have to one in june july sorry july and october. So please come back for those programs. But interpretively, you know Valerie Williams is here, she has a lot of programs in auditorium i mentioned her because she is a example of the kind of connection that historical interpreters especially africanamerican interpreters will make with audiences and want to talk about race and want to talk about things that are difficult. But still finding a way and the courage to do it here. So Valerie Williams is somebody who can do that. Its homes by the way homes. Valerie holmes. At the end of her program has more people outside, waiting in line, to talk with her, about not 18thcentury issues but about current issues. I hope, there are more characters created, in the africanamerican Program Staff here, that allow audiences, to connect and make connections. Not 18thcentury connections but human to human contact connections i know richard did that know kristi did that i know a lot of you did that. There are so many ways that if you just take the leap, you can talk with interpreters, who number one have been trained enough to understand and know the history, but number two, want to in many ways talk with people, who are interested in hearing more than a monologue, more than a few minutes, and want to hear more about the experiences of the 18th century, as well as contemporary experiences as well. I suggest, as you run into those characters, that you take advantage of knowing them, and delving deeply into the rich history that they all have been studying for so long. Also i would like to say, whatever it is, you can give that bring great grandchild as a storyteller i tell a story and i create something so im always thinking okay this connects to this connects to that. Our young people need to hear what has already gone on. So that they can make connections. What about the 60s, or the 50s, or the 40s . An infinite now. All of the stories coming up and i question them first of all. Because everything that i read, isnt true. Example i dont know if youve seen this being about putting rice in your hair . That some africans put rice in their hair so that something to eat . When i read that i said what . They are more concerned with rice and getting off the boat . But they are preparing for the passage . Someone said you learn something new every day you just learned something new. I said no i did not. All im saying the little connections, and history but many say okay, what did valerie just tell me. Sing a program and seeing what does this mean . And where have i seen this before. That is why i have always said, that africanamericans have long memory, and we see things from 50 years ago, that we know our ancestors saw, and we call it out. We know racism when we see it. We know when people are like that. We know that stuff. We do not and we had to do that. We had to say oh good morning to you maam. So we know that. And we see it and pick it up really quick. Thats because that history has talked taught us what its like to hear the same thing and see the same thing. So the story is still being told but just a little different. We want to stop and certainly knowledge that kelly. And stephen seals who was in here, where is he . Iceland. Celebrating his wedding. He just got married. But we just wanted to give honor to them for taking the time. [ clapping ] and understanding the importance of this, as you say, it is not just important night, it is important for so many reasons, and so many spaces and places, we do not have an opportunity to sit and talk seriously about these kinds of issues. Somebodies on one side, somebodys on the other. And nobody is having a conversation like this or at least not enough conversations like this going on. So i hope you williamsburg can take the lead and continue these kinds of conversations that you here, and those would like to hear even more of these kinds of conversations as well. I believe we have room for some questions. And will be back to. I wanted to thank you for what you are doing here and sharing all of your dances. Also, i wanted to know, if its happening today, the same type of support you had it during that time, is that happening with the block interpreters today . And do the white interpreters, also know how it is affecting everybody . Honestly, i havent worked in Colonial Williamsburg since 1999. Lets talk about it on july 5 she said . Does the contemporary program. And might not be as dynamic as we are [ laughter ] [ clapping ] with that said, thank you very much for joining us tonight. [ clapping ] we are featuring American History tv programs as a preview, what is available every weekend, on cspan3, lectures and history, american artifacts, real america, the civil war, oral history, the presidency, and special events coverage about our nations history. Enjoy American History tv, now, and every weekend, on cspan3. Sunday night on q a. Theoretical physicist mitch, author of the future of humanity, talks about our destiny beyond earth. And achieving digital immortality. Digital immortality takes everything known about you, on the internet, your digital footprint, your credit card records, what movies you see, what wine you like to buy, what country does it. Your videos, pictures, audio tapes and it creates a profile thats digitized that will last forever. So when you go to the library of the future, you will not take out a book about winston churchill, you will talk to winston churchill. Sunday night at 8 pm eastern on cspan3 q and a. For live coverage of the National Book festival saturday, august 31, starting at 10 am eastern. Our coverage includes author and interviews with Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg on her book my own words. And david troyer his book is the heartbeat of wounded knee. Sharon robinson talks about her book, child of the dream. Rick atkinson, author of the british are coming. And thomas malone, founding director of the mit center for intelligence discusses his book super minds. The National Book festival live, saturday, august 31 at 10 am eastern on book tv. On cspan3. Next, author diana remi barry talks about her book, the price for the pound of flesh. The value of the enslaved from wounded to grave and the building of a nation. This interview was recorded at the organization of american historians annual meeting, and philadelphia. This marks the anniversary of the first slavery sold where they come from . They came from different parts of west africa but they were actually taken on a ship and captured. And then captured again