next, a hearing examining ways to increase water storage and conservation in western states we also heard about water supply infrastructure. held by a senate energy subcommittee, this is an hour. >> the hearing of the senate energy natural resources subcommittee on power and water will come to order. i want to apologize for being tardy. i'm trying to be in a few places at once. thanks for your patience. throughout the rest, water is essential to everything we do. the infrastructure took centuries to build. and has allowed our cities to grow and our farms to prosper. without these dams and canals and reclaim water plants the american west would not be the bread basket or worldwide destination that it is today. it has taken tremendous foresight and major investment to develop the water systems that are the backbones of our western communities and businesses. they have been great investments. in my home state in arizona, what started as a $10 million federal development in 1903 laid the groundwork for today's phoenix metropolitan area shareholder now contributes $250 billion to the nation in gdp. earlier i toured all 15 counties in arizona. i saw firsthand how these major investments shaped the state. from hoover dam, salt river project, federal investment in these projects is therefore critical. when i visited yuma county in january, local water experts including one of our witnesses here today laid out to me how the water districts responsibly maintain and manage imperial dam and related infrastructure which supplies water to california and arizona's massive economy. irrigation projects have unleashed arizona's $23 billion agriculture economy. the return on the investments for our nation is clear. it is our turn to step up and make the next round of investments in our water infrastructure. we must ensure existing facilities keep running and develop the next generation of products. the bipartisan bills will do just that. my bill s-2044, the water supply infrastructure rehabilitation and utilization act which i'm proud to work side by side to develop will make huge strides in addressing significant needs at the existing bureau of reclamation assets. the beneficiaries of the assets are responsible for covering the costs of regular operations and maintenance of the infrastructure. they do so by building the costs into rates that water users pay throughout the year. as with any large scale infrastructure project, large capital upgrades are needed from time to time. they are beyond regular operation and maintenance. we call this extraordinary maintenance and it's often accompanied with a price tag too high to fold into a single year of rates. for example, imperial dam has upwards of $50 million in needed renovations. because the water districts are just prayeoperators, not the ow they don't have access to many traditional financing tools needed to fund these critical repairs. this is something that wade and the team in yuma brought to my attention right when i visited you there. that has directly resulted in this legislation. this is representative government in action. my bill addresses this by setting uppab an account to fund these and it allows operators to repay the cost with interest over a longer period of time. my bill modifies the authority to provide greater transparency and control to congress and to stake holders so this authority is utilized. the bill establishes a pilot program to modernize operations and increase water storage at existing dams without new construction. it looks at the needs of existing infrastructure, the drought resilience and water supply infrastructure act which i co-sponsored with senator feinstein, focuses on the need for new infrastructure. nearly every basin in the west will require new storage and supply to provide drought resilience in the face of population and economic growth, increasing environmental demands and changing run off regimes. the needs and opportunities for developing new water resources are different for every community. s 1932 recognizes that fact by creating a broad set of tools that allow water managers to keep all options on the table. while developing their long term strategy. we are in an exciting time and have a oo rel opportunity to move forward for solutions. that benefit water users and ecosystems. instead of knee jerk reactions and false choices between water development and the environment that permeated the debate, in past decades, water users and conservation groups are coming together to develop comprehensive solutions. i look forward to continuing this constructive approach and look forward to hearing from our witnesses who are doing hard work to develop needed water infrastructure by promoting partnerships rather than conflict. we don't have a rank member here today. i'm going to give the opportunity actually -- do we have anyone who wants to make a statement? >> thank you very much for the opportunity to be here today. thanks to all the witnesses and i welcome the two from colorado. thank you very much for all of you being here today. every time you say yuma county, i'm from yuma county. >> i know. yuma county, arizona. >> it's a little bit cooler. >> wonderful. thanks a lot. before turning to our witnesses, i ask unanimous consent to add a statement from senator feinstein in support of s 1932 to the record along with letters of support from 58 water districts and municipalities for s-1932. these include water council of arizona, salt river project, cities of phoenix. people in a county. without objection they will be placed into the record. let's now turn to our witnesses. we have five great witnesses to discuss water infrastructure and the three bills before us today. first up is commissioner of reclamation. the honorable brenda burman. nearly everyone on the panel has arizona roots. just sayin'. next we hear from mr. wade noble, a water attorney from yuma, a water sensei we like to call him, who represents a number of irrigation districts that rely on facilities. he also serves in leadership and advisory positions, national water resources association and the family farm alliance. what do you do in your free time, wade? i'm glad you could be here. thanks for making the trip out from arizona and for all the work you do. for yuma irrigators and water resources in our state. after that, we'll hear from mr. marshall brown, general manager for aurora water in colorado. he is also representing the water reuse association. i would note, he comes from aurora by way of scottsdale. so i know that we can trust him. then we will hear from ms. melinda kassen, senior counselor for the theodore roosevelt partnership. and finally mr. wesley hipke, recharged program manager for the idaho department of water resources, another arizona transplant. having spent nearly 20 years in arizona's department of water resources. i really didn't plan this, but it is great to have a lot of arizona roots on the panel. commissioner burman, it's good to see you again. you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. chairman mcsally, senator gardner, members of the subcommittee who are here with us perhaps virtually. my name is brenda burman, commissioner of reclamation with the department of the interior. thank you for providing me the opportunity to appear before you today. before i begin my remarks, i would first like to again thank you and thank this committee and your staff for their leadership and excellent quick work on the colorado river drought contingency plan authorization act this past spring. it was really incredible work and is moving forward. just this past week, i was in san diego for a signing ceremony where the international boundary and water commission, both the republic of mexico section and united states section signed a joint report. and this report describes how the united states and mexico will protect lake meade elevations to benefit the colorado river. this is really the last step in moving forward with our drought and scarcity plans. for the colorado river. it's a great accomplishment for cities, states, tribes and all the others who depend on the colorado river. and thank you. the committee has my written statement so i will use my time to highlight some of the underlying areas where we think the committee seeks to address in senate bill 1932, the drought resiliency act, the bill 2044, water supply infrastructure rehabilitation and utilization act, the okafor recharge act. as co sponsors are aware, as a nation, we need to invest in new and existing infrastructure. we need to invest in storage to infrastructure. we need to invest in storage to increase water reliability and we need to improve conveyance to secure our water supplies for future generations. reclamation's, dams, reservoirs, our water conveyance system and power generation facilities are integral components of the infrastructure and the economies of the western states. this infrastructure is key to reclamation's success. we operate just 500 dams throughout 17 states. we are the largest wholesaler of water in the united states. the water we deliver irrigates 10 million acres so, 20% of the farmers in the west and provides taking water to 31 million people. reclamation is also the second largest hydropower producer in the united states. we provided some handouts that i hope are in front of you to help explain the backdrop of where we work. you will see in front of you, one is a map of 2019, the hydrologic condition in the west for 2019. the other is exactly a year ago. so 2018. if you look at the two, what a difference a year makes. so, if you look at the rio grande, last year's runoff was at 18%. this year it is at 160%. last year, the colorado river basin was in its fifth year of record that we know about. this year we are at 144% of average. i think we even had snow in june. so this is the backdrop we work in. as water managers, we need to be able to deliver water whether it is wet or dry. there can be very large swings in the west. so, just a thought to keep in mind, what is the infrastructure we need when it is a dry year like 2018 in some areas or it is a what your like it can be in 2019 and we will see what we have in store for us in 2020. let me give an example on the colorado river. despite a wet year, the colorado river is in his 19th year of drought. despite that, we have consistently delivered our obligations to mexico and we have not yet had to declare a shortage. what is the reason for that? first, as you saw, in the spring, a lot of corporation between the states and the two countries. a lot of water savings. overwhelmingly, we have a robust storage system on the colorado river. federal surface storage on the colorado river is about 60 million acre-feet. meaning the federal reservoirs can store a combined four times the colorado river's annual flow. if you come, compare that to somewhere like southern california that has about the same runoff as the colorado river only their storage is barely up to a year's runoff. that means in a timely 2017 which was the wettest year on record in california, we had to let most of that water go out of the system. in 2018 which started off very dry in california and work his way up more toward an average year, we were not able to make deliveries. we had to take several months where we had farmers who did not know if they were going to get water are not. municipalities who did not know if they could depend on our supplies. storage is absolutely essential. infrastructure is essential to what we do and how we provide reliable water in the system. the investment made in the colorado systems and the generations who went before us that is what provided the efficiency, the flexibility, the conservation, that is what has increased our water supply reliability during this drought and for the future. across the west, we look at an all of the above approach. we encourage diversity of resources and have many programs that help with that. we view water recycling as well as groundwater recharge as important parts of this water supply strategy. we would like to work with the committee to keep working with you to strengthen these bills we are here to discuss today. we would like to discuss some other authorities to secure water for future generations. thank you for your time. >> absolutely. i'm going to do something a little nontraditional since we started late. i'm going to wait to have you testify and let mr. brown testify. then i will let you ask questions and we will continue with the panel just because he has a hard top. flexibility is the key to airpower we used to say in them military. >> good morning, to start i would like to think the chairwoman, and members of the subcommittee for inviting me here to speak about these issues today. i appreciate the opportunity to represent the city of aurora and also the water reuse association who represent over 250 utilities and over 300 other businesses and institutions across the country which implement water recycling. aurora water is a utility located east of denver colorado. we provide drinking water, wastewater and stormwater services to a population of over 370,000 people. aurora water and the reuse association strongly support the drought resiliency and water supply infrastructure act. we think senators gardner, feinstein and sinema and mcsally. senator gardner has long been an advocate on the credit, critical water issues. we appreciate you. meeting the water needs of a growing community in the arid west is challenging. aurora's water supply infrastructure is extensive and complicated. rr owns or partners in 12 reservoirs located in about one third of the state of colorado. we manage and maintain hundreds of miles of pipes. we have three drinking water treatments plans as well as a reclaimed water treatment facility. as most of the water supply is located west of the continental divide and most of the population is to the east, are a must transport and store water , including transporting it over mountain ranges up to 180 miles away. and that is before it reaches our customers. this requires a large and concerted effort to move water through tunnels, pipelines and pumping facilities and requires that we build and maintain large reservoirs to effectively utilize that supply. senate bill 1932 creates valuable funding programs for utilities like aurora water to help address the enormous capital needs required to build and maintain the infrastructure necessary to sustain the growing populations that we have. in order to ensure our ability to provide water, we must create robust systems which integrate multiple and increasingly complex components and technologies. for example, aurora water has a storage capacity to meet three years of our annual average demand to help see us through variable climate and endemic droughts. this storage is integrated into a system that also includes our ability to reuse 100 percent of our wastewater return flows. we use that for irrigation and to meet possible demands. while we have invested over $700 million in processes including riverbank filtration, aquifer recharge and recovery and industry leading water treatment which includes advanced oxidation in order to create those reuse capabilities, we are not done. in order to manage increasingly variable source water conditions, we are planning to add over 150,000 acre-feet of additional storage in our system. and, since we operate in a closed loop, we are seeing increasing levels of salinity and we know that eventually, probably in the not-too-distant future, we are going to have to start removing the salt from the water in order to continue reusing it. those types of needs and projects can benefit greatly from the legislation being considered here today. while the roles of government agencies may not be exactly the same today as they have been in the past, there remains a critical need for partnership at a local, state and national level. almost 36% of the land in colorado is federally owned and systems like aurora's, both are current and future system, they are not possible without partnership and support. so, thank you again for allowing me the opportunity to visit with you today about house in a bill 1932 could be hugely beneficial to us and assist aurora water and other similarly situated water providers in meeting these needs into the future. this bill goes a long way in providing realistic and sustainable funding mechanisms to help us develop or expand these complex, multifaceted systems and solutions to address those ongoing water needs. thank you, again. >> thank you mr. brown. we are going to go to ms. --. >> thank you, i think the first thing i should say is thank you for letting me be on this panel when i do not have a pie to arizona. the theodore roosevelt conservation partnership is an alliance of hunter, engler and science organizations dedicated to making sure americans have access to beautiful places to hunt and fish. well focused federal policies and resources will allow us to meet a range of water needs. congress can incentivize water conservation, water sharing, innovative technologies, and new strategies to help build a future with driving cities and rural communities diversified economies, sustainable agriculture, and watersheds which provide ecological benefits to all folks. this is especially important for rural america. fish swim in clean rivers and streams. migratory birds feed and dress along waterways. tier cp as partners and others recognize how many interests compete for the west's limited supplies. our experience shows that cooperation among diverse interests is the only path that leads to durable solutions. recently, this committee helped pass the colorado dcp. i will add my voice in an example of basin wide cooperation. thank you. an amended version of one of the bills you are considering today would build on the success of dcp. i suggest several modifications for your consideration. first, the committee should ensure both compliance with state and federal laws and the support of the governor of the state for section 3 storage projects at each step. this avoids having projects the state doesn't support move forward to receive federal funding. a scenario that may be likely to lead to more litigation than construction. second, we would ask the parent , asked the committee to expend the projects to projects that store and retain water in features of the landscape just as restoring natural systems can diminish the effects of coastal flooding, this approach can be a powerful tool for responding to drought. like built water storage, infrastructure retains wet season this petition and releases it during the dry season for use. it does so using the landscape. the quintessential western infrastructure stores 75% of the west's water, that is mountain snow pack. but, there are other systems, mountain meadows, wetlands, lanes, and aquifers. many groundwater projects already use natural infrastructure. one, as part of the platte river recovery implementation program is the tamarac state wildlife area in eastern colorado. the other yuma. partners pump water two ponds which then let the water seep into the ground and moved back to the river arriving in late summer and fall to augment low flows. the project improves wildlife habitat and contributes a measurable 10,000 acres of water for recovery of endangered cranes downstream in nebraska. another is the recharge network along the san pedro in arizona. a desert river that supports native fish, 300 species of migratory birds and hunters from the clovis people to today's hunters. they use 6000 acres of land along 25 miles of river to direct stormwater end into basins which allow the water to infiltrate, replenishing local groundwater for communities and flows for fish and wildlife. third, 1932 authorizes over $1 billion for water projects, but one of the most effective and important strategies to combat drought and build a more resilient future is not there. that is water conservation and efficiency. the bill includes no money for reducing water demand nor for the kind of voluntary temporary compensated water management activities which will be critical in the colorado river basin to implement dcp elsewhere in the west. tier cp encourages the committee either by reauthorizing existing legislation like water smart or to bold new programs to add efficiency to this package. thank you for inviting me. tier cp looks forward to working with you and other western water interest to make our water delivery system sustainable today and for a hotter, drier and more crowded western future. my written testimony includes other suggestions and i would be happy to answer questions. >> thank you ms. melinda kassen. >> i hope i am not setting a bad precedent. father fitzgibbons from regis university in denver, i appreciate you. i would ask consent for a number of letters to be entered into the record in support of senate bill 1932 from the national water rights association, the colorado water congress, the metropolitan water district of southern california, the water infrastructure network and others. i asked that be entered into the record. >> without objection. >> this is your first time testifying before congress so well then. i am think we are here today. aurora has an incredibly diverse water supply system. >> if you ever get a chance, as i have, with partners from aurora standing in the tunnel, in water that was this deep, the coldest water you can ever imagine. an incredible engineering feat. i know you're here on the behalf of the reuse association. let's focus on that. in the west, permitting for water storage has been incredibly expensive. that can take years. you mentioned in your testimony that he started planning in 2000 for a project you hope to complete between 2050 and 2070. that increase of capacity has becoming increasingly difficult. i think those numbers speak for themselves. how do we refocus the importance henri, increasing supply through other means can you walk through the extensive reuse system that you have and how that impact us? >> yes, the water reuse system we have obviously, wastewater return flows are available year- round. so, it is a medical supply that does not exactly match up with our demands, necessarily, and it also has got some challenges associated with treatment, but it provides huge opportunities for a consistently available, steady supply. also, it requires that we dampen the demand associated with the supply so we can meet the needs during peak periods such as the summer when the supply does not increase compared to lower demand periods in the winter when the supply is still there. our system actually multi barrier approach, very high- quality water, fairly expensive source of supply. and we have sure that's a play with some of our partners to the south. again, in order to use it effectively, we will have to expand the system in the future to meet increasing wastewater return flows and we will also have to build storage in the system in order to store the water when it is available as compared to the seasonal demands for the supply. it is a fantastic opportunity and gives us the ability to recapture roughly all of our indoor wastewater return flows but again, in order to utilize those, we have to store some of those during the nonpeak two- man periods to use them during peak two-man periods. >> to see you again. i don't think i have seen you since the signing of the historic dcp. congratulations, that is a very important complement. part of the agreements of studying the demand management program and the basins are looking at that, but still vital for us to focus on it. how important is it for us to take into account an all of the above approaches we look at water, not just storage but conservation, desalination, recharge, increase of water supply in west. >> senator it is absolutely critical. communities need to be looking at all their possible water supplies. that is groundwater, conservation, reuse, desalinization where that is the right thing to do. it is creating the redundancy. if you know in the system that surface water might not be there if you have several years of drought in a row, you can turn back and rely on the groundwater and have built then you demand. to title 16, desalinization, with all the programs you're looking at here and others, we absolutely believe in an all of the above strategy. >> thank you for being here. thank you for your work, as well. i'm trying to find a solution on good samaritan language. the project you identified in your testimony dealing with the platte river, talking about some of the natural opportunities to store water within systems, could you talk a little bit more about how we could do a better job of that in the legislation? >> the number one thing would be , committee staff actually circulated some language along with this draft bill with some potential additions with carefully crafted definitions. but section 3 talks about surface water storage and groundwater storage you could add a definition and add natural infrastructure water storage as well. it would not be, i don't think i'm a complicated and in fact, a lot of these projects and tamarack is one example, there is a pump. there is a piece of built infrastructure. but then, the rest of the project is natural in that it uses seepage and humming back to the rivers. so a lot of the natural infrastructure projects which are measurable, are still taking advantage of pieces and using both, some little pieces of built and a lot of the landscape to do the work. >> thank you. >> next i'm going to go to senator jim risch. he will introduce mr. wesley hipke . >> thank you very much. i have a bill here that is the aquifer recharge act. none of my friends from the east coast don't really understand this. they don't understand how important water is to us and they do not understand what a minimal amount of water we get. in eastern idaho we get about 11 inches totals no and water and not much better upstream where mr. wesley hipke is from. in any event, we do a lots of different things. we use our water to be able to do what we do in idaho and that is to have a states that even though we are owned two thirds by the federal government, we are able to do a lot of things with raising crops and those kinds of things. but water is absolutely critical. one of the things that is relatively recent and i use the rees, use the word relatively, that is recharge. it is incredibly important to us, particularly in eastern idaho where we have the idaho's eastern snake plane aquifer which is about the size of lake erie, is that right mr. wesley hipke? lake erie is a pretty sizable body of water. you think gosh, you have that much water this shouldn't be a problem. it is a problem because it is in the aquifer and we have become very efficient at drilling wells and taking water out of it in order to irrigate and do other things. it is important that we monitor the aquifer and that we recharge and where possible and that is what this bill is designed to do. mr. wesley hipke is in charge of the programs which do the recharge and he has done an excellent job of it. but, because, as i said, two thirds of the land is owned by the federal government and they get kind of cranky when you do things that you think need to be done that they don't, particularly if they live back east which a lot of them do, it is important that we have laws which allow us to do this and allow us to do it more smoothly. this bill will allow or make it more smooth to cross blm land when a current, canal already, already holds it. recharge will take place. these are all things which are really important to us. i think mr. wesley hipke will be able to tell us how important these things actually are for recharging this aquifer. without further ado, i would like to introduce mr. wesley hipke. with your permission and he can explain to us, if you would, how this bill will provide greater flexibility and the use of our 11 federal lands to get water to our aquifers. >> i am honored to testify today on behalf of the idaho water resource board on the aquifer recharge? ability act. as has been mentioned, i am the recharge program manager for the state of ohio. is also has been mentioned, i previously worked in the state of arizona for many years on their recharge program. i want to think senator jim risch on behalf of my state for his work on this important legislation. idaho's largest and most reductive aquifer is the esb a. it underlies much of southern and eastern idaho. this aquifer has been declining since 1952. these declines have a direct impact on both the groundwater and surface water users of the area, about 1 million acres of irrigated agriculture as well as the cities, towns, businesses, industries and homes in the region rely on water pumped from this aquifer. in addition, the declining spring flows from the aquifer have an important, have an impact on about 600,000 irrigated acres that divert water from the snake river. these flows also provide water for the world's largest fish hatcheries and complexes which provide idaho with clean, hydroelectric energy. southern idaho water users have been embroiled in numerous court battle over this declining off, aquifer. in 2015, the state of idaho and water route, water users reached historic agreements to rebuild the aquifer. as part of the agreement, groundwater users collectively agreed to reduce use by 240,000 acre-feet annually. in addition, idaho's legislator passed the resource board with the goal of recharging 250,000 acre-feet annually. on average, about one point form million acre-feet in any given year are available for the snake river for aquifer recharge. most in the winter and then during flood control operations in the spring. the managed aquifer efforts is a major undertaking for the state of idaho. the state is committed to constructing the required infrastructure needed to accomplish these goals. having invested nearly 20 million on these improvements to date. since 2017, idaho has recharged over 1.2 million acre-feet into the usb a. groundwater users have recharged an additional 400 there's, 400,000 acre-feet during that time all record- setting accomplishments for the state of ohio, idaho. but, more must be done to restore the aquifer and others in the state. some studies conducted by the board many recharge sites either require the use of federally owned property to conduct the recharge activities , existing irrigation canals that cross federal lands where the easement specifies a purpose other than aquifer recharge, or canal systems and federal ownership by the bureau of reclamation for where congressional authorization did not include recharge. by utilizing infrastructure to recharge aquifers, we can optimize the use of these systems for multiple uses and benefits while maintaining the cost of aquifer recharge to a affordable level. however, obtaining these necessary authorizations or permits has been one of our main challenges. this bill if enacted, would provide rater flexibility to recharge the sba and other aquifers in idaho. this would authorize reclamation and other federal agencies to have access and recharge water to aquifers with a minimum of redtape all consistent with water laws and policies. in conclusion, managing declining aquifers is a critical issue for most western states. idaho is at the forefront in developing large-scale managed aquifer recharge to actively manage aquifers. the enactment of the bill will help idaho and other western states he is recharge as a key tool in dealing with this critical issue. combined with other resource bills considered today idaho and other states would be provided additional tools that would encourage ownerships and investment in new water storage, aquifer recharge, reuse, desalinization and aging water delivery infrastructure. inc. you very much for this opportunity to testify on behalf of the idaho water resource board in support of this important legislation. and, i will stand for any questions you may have. speak and appreciate it. >> chairman mcsally, thank you for the opportunity to testify on the water supply infrastructure rehabilitation and utilization act, s 2044. this legislation is important to western irrigated agriculture and our whole nation . senator mcsally, if you'll permit me for a deviation in my prepared remarks, we express to you our appreciation for the work you have done. personally, we had the opportunity to sit down and discuss this problem. it came to you came to yuma. you observed, listened, learned, you acted. you exercise leadership and we thank you for that. my name is wade noble. i am from yuma arizona. yuma is at the southern end of the colorado river. yuma county agriculture provides winter vegetables to 85% of the united dates in canada. across the west, the bureau of reclamation facilities are on average 50 years old with some facilities 100 years old. in general, irrigation district is operate and maintain facilities that are transferred works. reclamation retains ownership but transfers routine operation and maintenance of the irrigation systems and the extraordinary maintenance and capital improvements of facilities and infrastructure to the district. in some instances, there is an additional layer. reclamation contracts with one districts as the responsible party for routine maintenance and capital shared transferred work. the other, the other districts become funding parties. they are not directly responsible for completing routine and extraordinary maintenance and capital improvements, but they are financially responsible for the work. imperial dam is an exam come example of a shared work. the example shows the financial impacts to the funding party irrigation districts as a result of the extraordinary maintenance and capital improvements needed on aging infrastructure. imperial irrigation districts and diverting almost 3 million acre-feet of colorado river water for vulture and imperial county cities and towns is the responsible party for imperial dam. iid is contractually obligated to perform all routine and extraordinary maintenance of the dam. however, the arizona and other california irrigation districts sharing imperial dam are obligated to pay their portion of the cost. in the next 10 years, the districts will stand, spend over $50 million on extraordinary maintenance and capital improvements. is the funding parties are not the responsible party, they have less funding or finance options. there is difficulty in obtaining grant monies or seeking traditional financing. bonding is especially difficult for non-responsible parties and smaller district. this leaves most districts with two options. increasing assessments or burning through reserves. the aging infrastructure account addresses extraordinary maintenance challenges and creates a general fund for operating entities and project in a fisheries seeking funds. while my testimony is focused on section 2 of s 2044, it is not meant to ignore the other two substantive sections. section three, authorization of appropriations for the reclamation of safety dams act is important to address western and national needs of water infrastructure. appropriation of an additional $550 million will ensure reclamation can financially address dam infrastructure woes, no pun intended. section 4, review of the pilot project is important to western and nationwide water managers. it will provide tools and flexibility to flood control and reservoir projects and allow managing entities to react to ever-changing climactic conditions. in arizona, our friends and colleagues of the salt river object would benefit in the operation of roosevelt dam. if these pilot projects are successful, it will change how we manage systems and create programs resilient to climate variability. considered as a whole, as 2044 will have significant positive impact on water resource management. again, we appreciate the opportunity to testify to the subcommittee. it has been a privilege and a pleasure. i am prepared to answer questions. but the easy ones, please. >> thank you, mr. noble. i will start off the questions. you just explained how the challenges we have with examples like imperial dam and others where the funding partners do not have any other choice but to in one year, payback for any investment in capital improvements you shared that in written and verbal testimony. can you further explain why some of the other options that others may have for debt financing don't work or are too expensive for certain districts in cases like this? >> sure, the traditional other options available include such things as private financing, borrowing or bonding. those are simply not available to smaller districts. if you use private financing, they want collateral. is the funding parties, they do not have access to the collateral and therefore cannot pledge it. private financing is often much more expensive is the interest rate is usually higher. if we turn to bonding, that can be quite expensive. just the cost of implementing a bond measure is very high. in addition, there is a problem that the interest rate is higher and you have to commit reserves which generally are not sufficient to cover the entire bond. those two options are just not available. can thank you. now speaking from your role at family farm alliance, how common is this challenge of accessing capital for water managers around the west? >> in response to being prepared for this particular item, we chatted with several people involved throughout the west. we find it is very common that there are many situations where they simply cannot privately fund or bond the things which need to be done. it is not that they don't or never have, it is just that it is widespread. >> thank you. commissioner brenda burman you have anything to add? >> no, this is a long held discussion in the water community how to finance improvements to aging infrastructure. so, we tend to work with the committee, with you and our partners on all the ideas that can work. >> thank you. as you know, our bill is intended to improve the extraordinary maintenance and how the authority is utilized. do you know since 2009 how many times reclamation has used the extended payment authority for extraordinary maintenance projects that transferred works? >> i had my staff pull that up and we came up with 19 instances. >> can you walk me through the current process for seeking funding and extended funding? what avenues do they have two- way in on that process? >> we have a directive and standard which is really the rules of how this works. but really, it is about approaching your local office of reclamation, approaching your area office, talking through what is needed. on the official side, there needs to be a repayment contract that is signed. i would say that can all be worked through. the most significant hurdle is often appropriations which that is for all the things we do. when you work with an area office about a project coming up, if it is going to happen under this authority, then under the authority from 2009, then it has to be through appropriations. so you are in the process and competing with all the other projects out there that are subject to appropriations. >> thank you. now i want to shift to safety of dams. it is my understanding that at some point there has been discussion as to whether some of the projects qualified under safety of dams. >> if they meet other criteria, all our dams both large and small have the ability to be under the safety of dams program. >> great. part of the reason we included this increase in safety of dams program is to ensure there is enough cap room to accommodate any new projects added to the inventory if needed. we do not need to hash this out now, but i asked that you commit to me in working on this. >> we would certainly work with you and work with the committee and with mr. noble and his clients to move forward and look at imperial dams. >> great, thank you. now i want to talk about supply portfolios. hearing your testimony, this is something that stuck out. one of the important things this does is take a similarly broad approach that puts multiple options on the table. can you talk a little bit about the importance of this diversified approach to infrastructure and the string and weaknesses of the components? >> yes, thank you. again, water supply in the arid west is challenging. it is not a very common resource anymore. so the days of being able to find a supply that is pristine and putting it through a treatment plant and delivering it to customers, those days are pretty much gone. all the supplies, the quality of the supplies is compromised whether you are looking for new sources of supply or whether you are looking at reuse projects. so, technologies are constantly evolving and giving us new opportunities to deal with water quality challenges and then again, the seasonal and the very abilities in the supply also present some significant challenges. the supplies are not always available at the same time the demands are there. so we have to build systems now that are extremely robust and multifaceted and take advantage of that. a bunch of different technologies, take advantage of different types of storage. there was a little bit of testimony talking about the challenges and the opportunities with storage looking a little different, too. we cannot go build storage like we used to be able to. we have to be more sensitive there. underground storage is a great option but underground storage by itself, at least in multiple settings does not work without surface storage integrated with the underground storage to be able to get the water in and out of the systems. so really we have to, now as systems grow and expand, and or progress to meet existing demands, we have have multiple tools in the toolbox. to take advantage of emerging technologies and outside the box storage opportunities and create systems that are robust. we cannot afford to allow any of our water go wasted anymore or go unutilized when we have that water in our systems. >> thank you. >> i think the witnesses for being here. ms. melinda kassen, when you said there is a lot of hot, dry and more crowded west, you could not have been talking more specifically about the pacific northwest that is exactly the way we feel. the most recent seasonal drought map definitely put us in the bull's- eye as far as that brown area. it is no secret that it is then an overlay to some of the challenges we face in fire season, as well. so i am very concerned that we continue to adopt strategies. you outline some like the smart water programs and things we were able to help integrate into the yakima basin program. and mr. wesley hipke you talked about the aquifer recharge. wife for areas like the pacific northwest shouldn't we be focusing more on recharge and integrations, holistic integration plans like we have been able to successfully do in yakima. by that i mean, if you're going to have warmer and drier conditions, less snow pack but you are still going to have water, recharging aquifers is an easy lay-up and then coordination on the conservation side and smart strategies, making best use of that also seem to just go hand- in-hand. do you have any comments about the recharge, you did not specifically call that out. >> absolutely. i have been doing managed to recharge for a little over 25 years now. i am a big fan of that. and, having said that, having worked extensively in two different states now and seeing the broad differences between them, i am an extreme fan of adaptive management and what has been discussed here. we need a lots of tools in the toolbox. the situation is changing rapidly. it is not a one-size-fits-all. as in idaho for the sba recharge , it is a very good tool that we use. that is not the only tool in that area. in other areas, recharge might not be an option. and we need to look at storage. as you have mentioned, there is a lots of demand and the supply is much more variable. we need to be flexible enough to take advantage of it when it is there. >> ms. melinda kassen you have ideas of what we could do to get better evangelizing of these cooperative programs? i almost still see us in kind of a divided universe here. there are those, definitely in the pacific northwest that believe in that cooperation coordination, the innovation and very holistic. than i see other parts of the country which are continually fighting over water. what can we do to better evangelizing get people to adopt these approaches? >> i would say a couple things. first of all, i think the colorado river basin, we feel like we are doing cooperation, too. so there are some places outside the northwest. but, one thing to think about in terms of increasing retention in the landscape and improving storage in nontraditional ways is, there is a project which piercy tried in montana on nine mile creek which was a drainage that had been adversely affected by legacy mining. they were in there to do restoration. but, healthy landscapes retain more water. healthy areas with intact systems, after they spent 10 years doing the restoration, they got the university of montana to come in and measure the amount of additional water flow that was coming from that restored landscape into the stream. it is measurable quantities of water that you can achieve, just like frequently in some kinds of water supply projects and water management, the environment gets to be a secondary beneficiary. in this restoration project, water storage and supply was a secondary benefit of the restoration. it goes both ways and i think talking about the success stories is certainly one way to evangelize. >> i also think having robust federal support programs for it, so that people are focused on smart water and restoration and doing a better job on coordination, one of the ways we fought so hard on the fire bill, we were doing unbelievable stream restoration work and then we would have a fire come through and work, knock it out. so we have to get this coordinated and the challenges we face are becoming greater. thank you. >> we did have votes called nearly meant, 50 minutes ago. i will be the last there. i want to ask one more question since you all made the trip out here. mr. noble, as you know the extraordinary maintenance account created only requires reclamation to take requests for funding for projects that are transferred works and not those operated by reclamation. i know this is the case for yuma, but in your experience which is vast, our districts responsible for reserved works, are they facing similar challenges? >> yes, they are. we have observed that throughout the west. there are challenges. the difference between reserve works and transferred works as far as funding is, most often there is a sharing between the district and reclamation as to the cost of the repairs or work being done, but reclamation has the opportunity to appropriate for their share of the work. >> thank you. >> would it make sense for us to add that to our bill? >> yes, it would. wrist >> reserved works? >> yes. >> we might follow up with you. become commissioner how do you feel about that? >> the more flexibility we have the easier it is to do the work. >> i know we have a number of questions, i do, as well that we also want to ask i know other members will probably want to ask for the record. so, i really would appreciate if you are willing to answer those questions after they are submitted for the record. i really appreciate everyone coming here. thank you for your patience and flexibility. it was important to hear your testimonies on these pending bills as we move them forward to address this important issue of water infrastructure and water investments for the future. these questions may be submitted for the record by the close of business on friday. this will remain open for two weeks and we ask that you respond in writing. the hearing is now adjourned. r thank you for coming today and the hearing is now adjourned. live every day with new policy issues that impact you. coming up tuesday morning, the hills national security reporter morgan. and andrew join us to preview the congressional testimony on wednesday. then, we speak with new year times magazine contributing reporter schwartz. be sure to watch washington journal live at 7 am eastern tuesday morning. joined the discussion. tuesday testimony from christopher wray on oversight issues at the fbi. he will be speaking before the senate judiciary committee live at 10 am on c-span 3. and, adam schiff will discuss the robert mueller investigation. he will also look at what is being done to protect u.s. elections from foreign interference. this lies at 2 pm eastern also on c-span 3. both chambers of congress are in session. those expected to be at the house before the august recess. this and it returns tuesday to continue the debate on mark esper being defense secretary. also, tuesday on the 9/11 compensation fund. follow the senate live on c- span 2. and, the houseplants to work on a bill to secure retirement savings for workers and retirees. they will also debate legislation that addresses border security and accountability at all levels of the homeland security department. watch the house live on c-span. robert mueller testified to congress on wednesday about possible obstruction of justice and abuse of power by president trump and russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. our live coverage starts at 8:30 a.m. on c-span 3 online at c- span.org , or listen wherever you are with the free c-span radio app. before the hearing listen to the complete report at c- span.org on your laptop or mobile device. the audio is courtesy of timberlane media. next remarks by policy experts and former diplomats about the current state of relations between the u.s. and saudi arabia. held by the policy counsel, this is two hours. >> good morning, everyone. i am gina abercrombie. vice chairman of the board of the policy counsel. i am pleased

Related Keywords

Montana , United States , Erie , Colorado , Colorado River , Mexico General , Mexico , California , Salt River , Arizona , Russia , Mountain Meadows , Denver , Idaho , Nebraska , Hoover Dam , Phoenix , Ohio , Americans , America , Russian , Marshall Brown , Gina Abercrombie , Robert Mueller , Brenda Burman , Jim Risch ,