Transcripts For CSPAN3 Hollywood Blacklist 70th Year Commemo

the record will show that on october 27th, 1947, a subcommittee of the house on american activities committee met with the chairman, dishonorable parnell thomas presiding. >> the house on american activities committee is in session. >> let yourself go. you, sir, are not even subpoenaed to testify here. >> yeah, i'm going to speak anyway. >> very well, mr. dreyfuss. >> my name is richard dreyfuss. and i'm a child of the blacklist. i was not -- my parents were not in show business but they were the victims of the blacklist nonetheless. i lived on 218 street in bay side, queens and every house on that block was lived in by a communist or a socialist. and if you have not fought hitler twice and not gone to the abraham lincoln brigade, you better have a dam good reason. when i was a young boy i turned to my mom and i said i'm the luckiest kid in the world and she said why? i said because i'm white, jewish and american. and she said it's time you came into the meetings. and when i was about 10, i turned to a friend of my father's, tommy grasso and i said "i get it, i get it. your totalarian psycho path is better than his tote alitarian psycho path "but they were and remain to this day the most influential moral influences on my life and character. they loved america. as few people have ever loved it and when they came back from the second world war they were acused of being premature antifascists. let's think about that phrase for a second. premature antifascist means you were against had hitler too soon. you really had a hidden agenda and you're a communist. i want you to know that i grew up with those who talked and those who didn't. and i was it -- i was raised among the children of both sides and i was moved and outeraged as a child at what had been happening. and i remain outraged and moved and i believe that hollywood is a place that has no room for this here and now or then. there are -- [ applause ] there are republicans in this town who believe that they are being blacklisted. if that's so and i don't really know if it is so, but if it's so, they have the right to the same moral outrage as we have. and i want to underscore one point. this is not about politics. it was never about politics. it was about a stalin-ist technique to terrify your best friend until he turned on you and denied you the only way you had to feed your children. that was mccarthyism. that was the blacklist. it was an act of humiliation and if it's going to on today, we should be ashamed of it. as i grew up, i asked -- [ applause ] as i grew up, i would ask men who had been blacklisted would you work with a nazi? and as they were putting their thoughts together i said because they thought you were a nazi and it doesn't mitigate and it doesn't change too much but it gives you a little glimpse. this is a comp plex thing. this is not simple. but this is something that gives our profession and our lives true meaning. and i will now tell you my story. some years ago there was an article written by a writer named mark stein who was discussing the sullen attitude of the present left in hollywood because they were opposed to ill illia krazan getting the award. he said they opposed anything he had done in izhad post testimony anticommunist crusade. and so i wrote mr. stein a letter. which i don't know if he ever got because he didn't answer. and i said mr. stein, i want you to know that you have done me the largest and greatest favor i have ever, ever received. i didn't even know i wanted it until you gave it to me. all my life i have wanted to be named and you named me. and i thank you from the bottom of my heart but you misunderstand mccarthyism and you misunderstand it blacklist and then i told him that was a personal thing. it was your best friend and then i went on to say if ilia kazam had not received eight academy awards for being best director or best writer, there might have been some excuse to think about honoring him. but having had those honors i can only think that giving him a life achievement award was a testimony to his moral character. and for that i have a clear negative no. ilia cuzan's life was the life of a serial betrayer. he betrayed the actor's studio. he betrayed lee stasbering, he betrayed stella adler. he betrayed it united states of america and every fellow communist in his life. and then he capped it 30 years after he had stopped his career, he wrote a book which was his autobiography and in that book he named for the first time the names of the wives of the men who had stuck by him for 30 years who he had fubbed and and men and women all over the upper west side of new york had had to look at each other in their living rooms in their older age with horror and shock. he had had to betray somebody. so i said at the time if i was there that night i would be sitting on my hands. i am standing -- sitting on my hands now. my enemy is the terror. it is not the party. my enemy is your enemy. it is the terror, the mass hysteria that sweeps us all, left and right. if i live long enough to find that the children of the left and the blacklist are shutting down right wing speakers at universities, we have entered elhad rr. so if this is your responsibility -- thank you very much mr. dreyfuss. >> and as astel once said this is your responsibility, it is your responsibility to change it. get your kids educated again. don't keep them so stupid. good night. thank you. >> point of order. point of order. >> thank you, fmr. dreyfuss. you have been named. >> truer words have never been spoken and check out the dreyfuss initiatives. terrific stuff. ladies and gentlemen, our host for tonight are two grandchildren of artists persecuted. i am a grandchild of jack and madeleine gilford. thank you, yes. and tonia verfield, the granddaughter of robert lee. of propaganda pictures like abbott and costello meets franken stein. >> thank you and our cors deour play wrielts of the art of acting studio. plus actors of the harold thurman laboratory company and who haz acted in ray donovan and masters of sex. the hollywood blacklist, perhaps the most notorious cultural event of the cold war years should be seen in the larger context of political purse cushion, career losses, and fbi surveill nsz that extended for more than a decade after 1947. is there an echo? okay. tonight is the exact 70th anversetry to the day when john lossen testified. he was the first member of the hollywood 10 to be a witness. there were earlier hearings, including testimony of ferocious anticommunists such as walt disney and other artists including hans isler. and more than 300 members of the entertainment industry were banned from working for the studios. but this wave of repression extended far beyond tinsel town to union members, activists and others across america. by 1950 it spawned mccarthyism which concentrated on u.s. government and military personnel. let's make something very clear. from the palmer raids to mccarthyism to co intel pro to today u.s. government repression has generally been aimed at the american left. tonight, amid new attacks on the first amendment we remember the hollywood blacklist with readings, statements artists were refused to make, red channels and other blacklist related text. they have been edited for time and clarity and will be read by blacklist survivors, relatives of persecuted artists and progressive artists and activists. we'll also have special video by et etdds ta asner. we have a full program with one intermission with -- ink performing in the lobby. instead of dwelling on villany, tonight we pay tribute to valor. to those who refuse ood be intimidated by the iron heel of the state. we honor them for their heroic defiance and by standing up, often valiantly place themselves in the line of fire as gladiators for justice. we pay homage to them all by reading their fighting words. and now the granddaughter of actor and producer kirk douglas who helped break the blacklist in 1960. kelsey douglas. she will read a statement, especially written by her grandfather for tonight's 70 lth anniversary commemoration of the hollywood blacklist. >> thank you for letting me participate in this special evening. the blacklist is very personal to me. i know many peoples whose lives and careers wered aversely effected by it. are we better now? thank you for letting me participate in this very special evening. the blacklist is very personal to me for i knew many peoples whose lives were adversely effected for it. the actor's gild was kind enough to give me it award for help hadding break the blacklist. looking back it is shocking something so inherently unamerican could last for more than a decade, out living both congressman parnell congress, the disgraced chairman of the american activities committee and senator joe mccarthy who became it permanent subcommittee in 1953. i myself was never a target of it. i wasn't important enough. i had made only one picture, the strange love of marthaivers, written by margaret rossen. that was in 1946. two years later both of them were on the blacklist. by the time senator joe mccarthy claimed he had had had lists of hundreds of communists and opened his had senate hearings, my standing in hollywood had had risen considerably. i been oscar nominated for "champion." carl too was blacklisted. i used to visit him in london where he fled just days before the state department pulled his pass port. he told me his hollywood friends were afraid to pee seen with him had, even outside america. lee grant made a brilliant film with me. it brought her an oscar nomination and best actress award at con. after she criticized and refused to testify against her husband had, she too was blacklisted. her banishment lasted longer than the marriage, a full 10 years. i was indignant about it witch hunts in washington but that's about as far as it went for me. like most people i followed the 1947 hearings on the radio and later watched the senate hearings on tv. aside from my outrage when mgm made me sign a loyalty oath, i was far too busy with my new produkds company to get involved. little did i realize how deeply they would impact my life. 70 years ago today dalton trumbo, it it highest paid screen writer in the business and one of the most colorful characters was in washington being badgered by it house on american activities committee. if dalton hadn't been convicted and blacklisted, i could never have afforded to hire him or rather his alter ego, sam jackson. and then there was howard fast who used his time in prison to write the novel about a slave gladiator in rome i later optioned. of course making a film from a book written by a communist and trumbo, made me a target who threatened to destroy me and the film. let me make something clear. i didn't put dalton's name on the screen because playing spart ks had had gone to my head. i wads no hero. however i was tired of being a hypocrite like so many others in the film business, including the studios. we all use blacklisted writers, as long as they didn't step on to the lot and of course we had to hide their true identities, although it was an open secret which blacklisted writer was working on what. maybe it was stanley cuberic who pushed me over the edge. when we were sitting round deciding whose nameicide go in as writer in the credits. stanley volunteered to as he put it, help us out by letting us use his. i was shocked he would want to take credit for someone else's work. so i celebrated by if hadviting dalton for lunch at universal. we walked together to the commissary. what will you have today, mr. trumr. mr. from trumbo? it was one of the best lunches i ever ate. >> thank you, kelsey. we're honored by your presence representing kirk douglas. >> we call tony khan to the witness stand. >> you're being called to the witness stand. tony khan is the son of gordon khan, the screen writer of notorious comy propaganda, such as the 1942 world war ii morale booster, a yank on the burma road and cowboy and the sin i don't remember eatau, starring moscow master mind, trigger. he wrote over 30 films including all quiet on the western front, african queen. and a book that infuriated jay edger hoover so much that it put him under surveillance for 15 years. till the day he died for his so-called thought crimes, gordon became one of the hollywood 19. >> tony khan is a 40-year veteran writer, producer and host on pbs and npr. he is currently heard on npr's said you quiz show and has written a new play the hound and the fox, about it pursuit of his father by jay edger hoover he hopes to see produced soon in l.a. he'll now tell us about the hollywood 19 and his father, gordon khan. >> thank you. privilege is too small a word to use for the experience of being here with you tonight. i hope it's only the first 70th anniversary we celebrate. my father by the way only claimed to have written additional dialogue for trigger. he never said he created the character. but he did introduce roy rogers to day 11s and that may have been one of his greatest contributions to the culture. as you probably know, this may be old history. but the hollywood 10 weren't the only witnesses that were called to appear before hew ac70 years ago today. in addition to german play write berto who quickly left the country after testifying knowing that there were much nicer places for him to be. eight otherer proodeucers and screen writers were also subpoenaed to go to washington and to testify. in case you don't know their names and they deserve to be repeated, they were actor larry parks, directors robert rossen, lewis milestone, irving pitchal. the remaining four were card carrying members of the screen writers gild. walledo salt who -- he went on to write serpico and midnight cowboy. kauch, best known for a little film called casa blanca. richard collins who eventually inhad fo informed on 27 people. if you want to talk about the experience of the children, they had had it just as bad if not worse than those who did testify. i said i'm sorry. i said i'm going to say that your father did name 27 people. what doyou want me to say? he said tell them the truth. tell them the truth. well, when huac called these 10, it then stopped the hearings for a while and of these eight surviving men, no one heard what they had to say to the committee because the committee no longer was in session. when they returned to their investigation of haollywood in 1950, the committee decided to pick up where thaf left off, which is with my father. rumors were circulating that hoover had had submitted a plan to president truman to send american communists to concentration camps, the same way they did the japanese americans in 1941, using sh of the same facility said only built more. rather than face that possibility, my father fled to mexico where we lived for the next five years. he returned to the u.s. and eked oult a living under a pseudonym and died still blacklisted at the age of 62. although my father gordon never had a chance to express his feelings puck lbly, he did so in private. if you'll allow me i'd like to read just a little bit of what he did. first it's from letter to my mother in june of 1950. she was in boston at the time recovering from surgery and he had just learned from a man i think in a barber shop that somebody with a subpoena might already be on his way to our door. so he rushed home, packed a bag, left my older brother and me in the tub with our aunt, told us he was going to san francisco. and fled to mexico. my brother was 8, i was 5. and he probably thought it would be a good idea not to intrust us with the truth or tell anybody where he really was heading. dearest barbara, he wrote to her in that letter, on monday night when subpoena was almost certain i decided to get out praunto. there was no use waiting for that extra day or two and not even that extra hour. if in full flight from any principal i might possess i went and recanted everything and every decent thing i believed in to them, it wouldn't be enough. ta they'd want to know who else? now that you're purged, who else? give us names, dates and places. could i live with myself for a minute after i did a thing like that? could i face my children? if this is a decent world when they grow up, they'd spin on me and be perfectly justified in doing so. when it actually came to time to leave, i couldn't -- well, i can't even write about it now. the poor kids were just mystified. i went to pieces for the first and i hope the last time in my life. i can't find the words to tell you how miserable i feel i have to leave them now or not lat. i keep seeing their faces and yours every mile of the trip. but don't worry i'll hold you all in my armz very soon. nine months later we began our five-year exile in mexico. the second thing and last thing i want to read is probably also the last thing he ever wrote. a single sentence. my mother found it on a piece of paper on his desk in new hampshire where he'd left it the day before he died. it said i stood before it tribunal of my own mind. she thought it was so true to the man that she knew and who had endured 15 years of obscurity without complaint that she had engraved on his tombstone. i was 17 when he died and knew it not as an ideological or political fight but a crisis i had been buffetted by all my life. but i can see those words embodied the meaning to imhad of his life not just as a loyal friend and a father who wanted to set a good example for his two boys but as a good american. i stand before the tribunal of my own mind. those are the very words. i'd like to think he would have used to defy the committee if he'd had the chance. >> thank you. thank you, very much. mr. tony khan. bravo. actress marcia hunt. do we have marcia here tonight? oh, my, marcia. she was born in chicago a century ago this month. [ applause ] oh, my. this is great. she first appeared on screen at the age of 18. oh, look at that. standing o. you look beautiful. doesn't she look beautiful tonight? can we all give her a happy birthday. one, two, three. happy birthday to you happy birthday to you ♪ oh we got band. [ singing "happy birthday"] >> let's go for it. ♪ ♪ happy birthday, dear marcia happy birthday you are and many more ♪ she first appeared on screen at the age of 18 in the 1935 paramount picture, the virginia judge and went on to act in many films including pride and prejudice, the human comedy with mickey rooney, none shall escape. 1947 smash up with a script by lossen. but after she joined the committee for the first amendment broadcast, the hollywood fights back radio programs, and observed the huac hearings, her big screen roles vanished. she appeared in tv series and one of her 235iroles was a 2015 documentary, marcia hunt sweet adversity and i think we have the documentary film maker here. roger, are you here? it's great. it's called marcia hunt's sweet adversity. so we want to thank you. thank you for everything. >> thank you for all that. you probably overwhelmed by now with those niceties. but it's been a full and wonderfully fortunate life. i've had a chance to speak up now and then and happily, obviously, able to do it. there are no regrets and a great deal to look forward to. >> oh, that was wonderful. but you never answer the question. are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party? >> i didn't hear that. >> i said are you a communist? >> i've been called one often enough. but i'm not even sure i ever met one. >> what does one look like? look to your right, your left, it's probably someone sitting right next to you is a communist. thank you so much. let's help you down here. [ applause ] doesn't feel very secure but there it is. >> we call john howard lawson to testify. >> 70 years ago today on october 27, 1947, this is what marcia and other eye witnesses saw in washington as the first member of the hollywood 10, john howard lawson testified before huac. he was the first president of what was it writers' gild of america and lawson's screen credits including the first spanish feature, the block aide with henry fonda but morale boosters. he used spseudonyms including cy the beloved country and in his final role, canada lee. like his first 10 witness, actor asner refused to gravel before gavels. the seven-time emmy award winner is best known for portraying lieu grant in the mary tyler moore tv series and rich man, poor man and roots. ed depicted the attorney for the fictionalized rosen bergs, the only u.s. civilians executed for esz penaush during the cold war and gave voice to carl fredricson, not marks. the two-time oscar winner, up. >> and is renowned as a tireless human rights champion. when ed was sag president he clashed with it central american policies of president regan who was an fbi informant who betrayed actors. here in a video especially shot for our blacklist commemoration. ed asner reads john howard lawson's testimony which took place exactly 70 years ago today. enjoy. >> mr. chairman, i have a statement here which i wish to make. >> do you have a copy of that? i don't care to read anymore of the statement. i read the first line . >> you have spent one week villifying me before the american public. >> now ugist a minute. >> and you are efused to allow me to make a statement on my right as an american citizen. i wish to protest against the unwillingness of this committee to read a statement where you permitted mr. warner, mr. mare, and others to read statements in this room. >> mr. lawson, you will please be responsive to the questions and not continue to try to disrupt these hearings. >> i am had not on trial here, mr. chairman. this committee's on trial here. this exity is on trial here. before the american people, let us get that straight. i wish to frame my own answers to your questions, mr. chairman and i intend to do so. ab solutely, beyond the power of this committee to inquire any association, in my association in any organization. >> mr. lawson, you have to stop or you will leave the witness stand and you will leave the witness stand because you are in contempt. that is why you will leave and if you are just trying to force me to put you in contempt, you will have to try much harder. you know what happens to a lot of people who have been in contempt of this committee this year. >> i know you have made it perfectly clear you're going to threaten and intimidate the witnesses, mr. chairman. i am an american and i'm not at all easy to intimidate and don't think i am. >> mr. lawson, are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party of the united states? >> before i answer that question, i must emphasize the points i read before. the question of communism is in no way related to this inhquiry, which is an attempt to get control of the screen and to invade the basic right of american citizens in all fields. >> now, i must object. >> mr. chairman. not only to the question of my membership in any political organization but this committee is attempting to establish the right tool historically deny through any committee of this sort. to invade it right and privileges and immunity of american citizens whether they be protestant, methodist, jewish or catholic, whether they be republican, or americans or anything else. >> just quiet down again. most pertinent question we can ask is whether you have ever been a member of the communist party. do you care to answer that question? >> you are using the old technique but to use in hitler was germany in order to create -- in order to create an entirely false atmosphere in which this hearing is condukted. to establish precisely the operation of any committee which would invade the basic rights of americans. now, if you want to know. >> mr. chairman, the witness is not answering the question. >> and the perjury -- >> had mr. lawson. >> you permit me and my attorney to bring in the witnesses. that testified last week and you permit us to cross examine these witnesses. and we will show the whole -- >> we are going to get the answer to that question if we have to stay here for a week. are you a member of the communist party or have you ever been a member of the communist party? >> it is unfortunate and tragic that i have to teach this committee the basic principals of america. >> that is not the question. that is not the question. the question is have you ever been a member of the communist party? >> i am framing my answer in the only way to which any american citizen can train his answer to a question which absolutely invades his right. >> and you refuse to answer that question. is that correct? >> i have told you that i will offer my believes, consilliations and everything else to the american public and they will know where i stand. >> excuse it witness. >> as they do from what i have written. >> stand away from the stand. stand away from the stand. >> i shall continue to fight for the bill of rights. which you are trying to destroy. >> officers, take this man away from the stand. there will be no demonstrations. no demmen strag onstrations for against. everyone will please be seated. >> no demonstrations. >> order. we call albert to the witness stand. >> screen writer, albert malts -- is this on -- one of the few unfriendly witnesses allowed to read a statement prior to testifying before huac. robert e. stripling was a chief investigator and a world war ii sin nim for a traitor and his granddaughter reads parts of her grandfather's statement. she was born in mexico city where her mother had lived since it age of seven. she left mexico after it passing of her grandmother and lived in san francisco since 1968. over the last 20 years she has been an actress and produkds manager of indy films. is she here? great. >> thank you for the honor of being here today. trying not to cry. i had an american and i believe that there is no more proud word in the vocabulary of man. i am a novelist and screenwriter and i have produced a certain body of work in the past 15 years. as with any writer that i have written has come from the total fabric of my life. my birth in this land. our schools and games, our atmosphere of freedom of our tradition of inquiry, criticism, discussion, tolerance. whatever i, america has made me and i in turn possess no loyalty as great as the one i have to this land to the social and economic welfare of its people to the perpetuation of its democratic way of life now at the age of 39 i am commanded to apeer before the house committee on american activities. for a full week this committee has encouraged an assortment of well reurs hhearse hadded witne to testify that i and others are subversive and unamerican. it has refused us the opportunity that any pick pocket receives in a magistrate 's court, the right to cross examine these witnesses too, refute their testimony, to reveal their motives. their history and who exactly they are. further more, it grants these witnesses congressional immunity so that we may not sue them for libel for their slanders. i maintain this is an eval and vicious procedure. that it is illegally unjust and morally indecent and it places in danger every other american since if the right of any one citizen can be invaded, then the constitutional guarantees of every other american has been subverted and no one any longer protected from official tyranny. my film, the pride of the marines was premiered in 28 sit aides under the ospss of the united states marine corps. another film, destination tokyo, was premiered aboard a u.s. submarine and adopted by the navy as an official training film. my short film, the house i live in, was given a special award by the academy of motion pictures arts and sciences for its contribution to racial tolerance. this, then is the body of work for which this committee urges i be blacklisted in the film industry and tomorrow if it has its way, in the publishing and magazine fields also. by cold sencensorship, if not legislation. i must not be alowed to write. will this censorship stop with me or has the others now singled out for attack? if it requires acceptance of the ideas of this committee to remain immune for the brand of americanism, then who is ultimately safe except members of the ku klux klan. why else does this committee seek to destroy me and others? because of our ideas, unquestionably in 1908 when he was president of the united states, thomas jefferson wrote opinion and the just maintenance of it shall never be a crime in my view, nor bring if hnjury toe individual. very well then. here is the other reasons why i and others have been commanded to appear before this committee. our ieds. in common with many americans, i supported the new deal. in common with many americans i supported against mr. thomas, the antilynching bill. i signed petitions for these measures, joined organizations that advocated them, contributed money, sometimes spoke from public platforms and will continue to do so. i will take my philosophy from thomas pain, thomas jefferson, abraham lincoln and i will not be dictated to or intimidated by men to whom the ku klux klan, as a matter of committee record is an acceptable american institution. i state further that many questions of public interest my opinions as a citizen have not always been in accord with the opinions of the majority. they are now, nor have they ever been unchanged -- fixed and unchanging, nor are they now fixed and unchangeable. but right or wrong, i claim and i insist upon my right to think freely, to speak freely, to join the republican party or the communist party, the democratic or the prohibition party to publish whatever i please, to fix my mind or change my mind without digitation from anyone. to offer any criticism i think fitting of any public official or policy to join whatever organizations no matter what certain legislatures may think of them. above all i challenge the right of this committee to if had choir into my plit hadical or religious belief or in any matter or degree and i assent that not the conduct of this committee but its very existence are a subversion of the bill of rights. if i were spokesman for general franco, i would not be here today. i would rather be here. i would rather die than be a shaby american grauvling before whose names are thomas and rankin but who carry out motive said in america like those carried out in germany by gobos and hitler. the american people are going to have to choose between the bill of rights and the thomas committee. they can't have both. one or the other must be abolished in the immediate future. >> mr. strickland, are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party? >> i have answered the question, mr. quizling. i am had sorry -- >> i object to that statement. excuse the witness. no more questions. typical communist line. we call ladner to testify. [ applause ] >> order. >> at the age of only 27, screenwriter co-won an oscar for the first tracy hepburn picture. today directed by -- as one of the hollywood served time behin with lester cole. and by the then disgraced chairman jay parnell thomas. after the blacklist, ring won his second academy award for the 1970 korean war comedy "mash." let's hope we get out of here before the second korean war. >> mike farrell is a writer, actor and perhaps best known for playing honeycutt in the tv version of mash. he is co-chair emeritus of human rights watch and since 1994 president of death penalty focus. greenwald artists united to win without war. [ applause ] >> mr. lardner, how long have you been a writer? >> i have been a writer about ten years. mr. chairman, i have a a short statement i'd like to make. >> mr. lardner, the committee is unanimous in the fact that after you testify, you may read your statement. >> thank you. >> mr. lardner, are you a member of the screenwriters guild? >> mr. smerling, i would like to be cooperative about that, but there are certain limits to my cooperation. i don't want to help you divide or smash this particular guild or infiltrate the motion picture business in any way for which to me seems the purpose to control that business, to control what the american people can see and hear in their motion picture theaters. >> now mr. lardner, don't do like the others if i were you, or you will read your statement. >> oh, but i understand you to say that i would be permitted to read the statement, mr. chairman. >> yes. after you're finished with the questions and answers. >> yes. >> but you certainly haven't answered the questions. >> well, i'm going to answer the questions, but i don't think you qualified in any way your statement that i would be allowed to read this statement. >> thenally qualify it now. if you refuse to answer the questions, then you will not read your statement. >> well, i know that is an indirect way i of saying you don't want me to read the statement. well, i'm not very good at haranguing, and i won't try it, but it seems to me that if you make me answer this question, tomorrow you could ask somebody else whether he believed in spiritualism. >> oh, no. there is no chance of our asking anyone whether they believe in spiritualism, and you know it. this is just plain silly. >> you mind. >> now you haven't learned your lines very well. >> i'm also concerned as an american with the question of whether this committee has the right to ask me -- >> all right. go to the $64 question. >> mr. lardner, are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party? >> well, i would like to answer that question too. it seems to me you're trying to discredit the screenwriter's guild through me and the motion picture industry and our whole practice of freedom of expression. >> if you and others are members of the communist party you are the ones who are discrediting the screenwriter's guild. >> i'm trying to answer the question by stating first of all i feel about the purpose of the question, which is as i say is to discredit the whole motion picture industry. >> you won't say anything first. you're refusing to answer this question. >> no, i'm saying my understanding as an american -- >> never mind your understanding there is a question. are you or have you ever been a member of the communist party? >> i could answer that exactly the way you want, mr. chairman. depends on the circumstances. i could answer it. but you know, if i did, i'd hate myself in the morning. >> leave the witness chair. >> i think i'm leaving by force. >> sergeant, take the witness away. the committee calls samuel ornitz. [ applause ] >> point of order. >> at the hells highway chain gang highway and "three faces west." reading sam's testimony his great grandniece donna ornitz, a pediatric ophthalmologist. >> okay, got it. >> are you a member of the screenwriter's guild? >> i wish to reply to that question that this involves a serious question of conscience for me. >> conscience? >> conscience, sir. conscience. are you a member of the screenwriter's guild? >> i am replying to that question to the best of my ability, and in spite of the interruptions. if i may reply to it in less detail than our chairman did this morning in practices intimidation and as he has practiced it continually during this hearing, the question of conscience -- sorry -- the question of conscience and constitutional rights are not simple matters to me. so kindly let me answer the question. i'm asking this as a citizen and taxpayer of representatives of my government. to let me answer the question conscientiously. i say you do raise a serious question of conscience for me when you ask me to act in concert with you to override the constitution. wait a minute, let me answer the question. >> ask the next question. >> you're asking me to violate a constitutional guarantee. >> it does not involve a constitutional guarantee. >> it does. >> are you a member of the communist party? >> i wish to state to you that my political affiliations like my religious affiliation is a matter fully guaranteed by the constitution. i can belong to any party that i see fit to join, and you have no right to inquire into it. >> this witness is through. stand aside. >> i have replied to that. >> this witness is through. stand aside. all right. next witness. [ applause ] >> we cabrecht to the film. >> a french screenwriter and novelist. red and blue about hollywood's depiction of the russian revolution. guillaume flew from paris with his fellow filmmakers to take part in this blacklist commemoration. later, they are screening a clip of their film -- later, much later, a clip of the film tonight here. dvds of the english version of "red and blue" will be sold in the lobby at the end of tonight's program. guillaume lebeau reads the testimony by the german play right berchtold brecht. >> are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party in any country? >> i am thibaut. this is guillaume. we are two. so. sorry. i have heard -- >> i'll repeat the question. are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party in any country? >> i have heard my colleagues and they consider this question not as properer, but i am a guest in this country and do not want to enter any legal argument. so i will answer your question fully as well i can. i am not a member of any communist party. >> mr. brecht, is it true that you have written very revolutionary poems, plays, and other writings? >> i've written a number of poems, songs and plays in the fight against hitler. and of course they ucan be considered therefore as revolutionary because i, of course, was for the overthrow of that government. >> mr. brecht, could you tell the committee how many times you have been to moscow? >> i was invited to moscow two times. >> and how many of your writings have been based on the philosophy of lenin, marx? >> no, i don't think that is quite correct. but of course i studied as a playwrig playwright. i of course had to study marx ideas about history. i do not think that religion plays today can be written without that study. also, history now is written now is widely influenced by this, by the studies of marx about history. >> mr. brecht, since you have been in the u.s., have you met with any officials of the soviet government? >> yes. in hollywood i was invited sometime -- three or four times to the soviet consulate with many other writers, artists, and actors to reception. >> and did you collaborate with hans eissler in the song "in praise of learning"? >> collaborate. i you the song. he only wrote the music. it comes from an adaptation i made of the novel "the mother." and in this song a worker woman advises poor people. >> yes, yes. i'll read the words. "again you must learn the lesson. you must be ready to take over". >> no, excuse me that is a wrong translation. may i speak to the translator? >> the correct translation would be "you must take the lead." >> you don't ever recall anyone in the united states asking you to join the communist party? >> no, i don't recall anybody ask me -- >> i would like to ask mr. brecht whether he wrote a song rather entitled "forward we've not forgotten." >> no, i wrote a german poem. but that is very different from this thing. >> okay. that's all the questions that i have, mr. chairman. >> immediately after testifying, brecht who escaped from nazi germany fled america never to come to america again. [ applause ] the blacklist continued to divide hollywood well into 1950 when in october of that year, it reached a boiling point in what was then called the screen director's guild. here to tell us about it is turner classic movies host ben mankiewicz. i'm a huge fan of this guy. and honestly, there is a lot here, but he needs no further introduction. here is ben mankiewicz. >> thank you, everybody. let me first echo tony kahn and just say it's a real privilege to be here today, tonight. so thanks very much. and a quick promo. it's not really a promo. i think you guys would be interested. but during november on turner classic movies, our spotlight is on the blacklist. well will be featuring films throughout the month of movies made by blacklisted artists, writers, directors, actors, of course. and toward the end of the month, i think the 27th and 28th, we will have two nights of programing presented by lee grant. and you won't want to miss that lee was -- well, you know lee. so, again, thanks for having me. the screenwriting credits of my grandfather, herman mankiewicz, they include a couple of classics, pride of the yankees and citizen kane. famously, like many of you here tonight, herman had a way with words. and one night in october of 1950, he phoned his younger brother, joe mankiewicz. he was screening a movie at fox late at night. and herman asked joe what do you and andrew johnson have in common. go on, said joe, knowing a punch line was coming. you're being impeached, my boy was herman's response. when he got the call, joe was president of what was then the screen director's guild. during his careers joe's directing credits included all about eve, letter to three wives, sleuth, and cleopatra. but surprisingly it wasn't cleopatra that had joe on the verge of being removed from office. opposition came in the form of cecil b. demille who rallied against unionism at the guild at the first meeting of the guild 14 years earlier. demille was leading a group of conservative directors seeking to impose a loyalty oath on guild members. joe called that a de facto blacklist. john huston summed up the error well. he said it was not a very good time for the guild, or for anything else in this country. the matter came to a head october 22nd, 1950 when 300 plus directors gathered for a western style showdown. spent it w except it was at the beverly hills hotel. and there was probably catering. and like half the guild members were jewish. but other than that, it was just like a western. joe opened the proceedings, and he said this. this meeting can become very easily the most important in our history. it is entirely up to us whether we shall remember this night with satisfaction and pride or whether it shall be remembered as the night we lost the guild. whatted throw that night is really extraordinary. since joe opposed the mandatory loyalty oath, specifically, he opposed demille's open ballot on the measure requiring directors to say in an open ballot whether they opposed a loyalty oath or not, demille then tried to remove joe from office. and he did it in the middle of the night. and he did it by sending out recall ballots on anonymous stationary but with the guild as the return address. it said this. this is a ballot to recall joe mankiewicz. sign here yes. there was no space for no. then demille sent the ballots out in the middle of the night to be delivered by motorcycle courier. but demille's gang deliberately avoided sending them to 55 directors that he knew were loyal to joe. however, they made a mistake when demille loyalist george marshall showed up in a motorcycle sidecar at john farrow's house. pharaoh threw him out. and then he drove over to my grandfather herman's house, which led to herman's call to joe screening a movie at fox after 11:00 p.m. from there, joe, with the help from the heros of the affair, george stevens, john huston, pharaoh, william wyler, richard brooks, billy wilder, nick ray, robert wise, they got 25 members to sign a petition that demanded a full open meeting of the board. and that's the meeting of sunday, october 22nd. and that's the night where we got a real sense of the sinister conspiratorial atmosphere of the era. first demille, the great showman, he directed a -- this is true -- a pink spotlight to shine down on joe's bald head. subtle. then he suggested the 25 directors who signed the petition to force the open meeting might not be loyal americans. many he said were foreign born. mr. demille, said fritz lange, do you know this is the first time in america that i'm afraid because i an an accent. demille was booed. but he was undeterred. asked to withdraw his accusations, demille then doubled down, pronouncing the names of immigrant jewish directors with an accent. willie wyler, fred cinnamon he said. demille had lost the room. finally a man joe had been counting on, a man whose opinion could sway the membership, a man who had been silent for five hours, stood up. wearing his tennis shoes, his hat with his pipe and chewing on a handkerchief, he said my name is jacked for and i make westerns. i admire you, ford told demille, but i don't like you. and i don't like what you stand for tonight. ford said he had helped found the guild, quote, to protect ourselves against producers. now somebody wants to give out to producers what looks to me like a blacklist. ford then stunned the board by calling for demille and the rest of the 15 members of the board to resign. and then he turned to joe and said, "let's turn the guild over to the pollack and go home." then tomorrow ford added let's go back and make movies. thank you. [ applause ] >> another one of the anti-oath leaders who took the 1950s equivalent of a knee was former guild president john cromwell. he directed betty davis of human bondage. he was one of the hollywood artists. he was blacklisted even though he never joined the communist party. tonight his son, jamie cromwell, who i'm sure many of you know. he has long been one of hollywood's leading actors and activists. his friend mickey was one of the civil rights murdered in mississippi in 1964. he directs jurassic world fallen kingdom. and will now give us a piece on larry parks, who had recently hit it big in two popular pictures when he was called to the stand on march 21st, 1951. [ applause ] >> here is jamie cromwell. >> thank you. >> the spanish inquisition calls larry parks. >> i will tell you everything that i know about myself. i would prefer if you will allow me not to mention other people's names. don't present me with this choice of either being in contempt of this committee or going to jail. or forcing me to really crawl through the mud and be an informer. i don't think that this is american. it is more akin to what happened under hitler. so i beg you not to force me to do this. >> who were the members of the cell of the communist party to which you were assigned during the period from 1941 on up to the time you disassociated yourself from the party about 1945? >> this is what i've been talking about. this is the thing. that i'm no longer fighting for myself, because i'll tell you frankly that i am probably the most completely ruined man that you have ever seen. i am fighting for a principle, i think. if americanism is involved in this particular case, this is what i have been talking about. i do not believe that it benefits this committee to force me to do this. i do not believe it benefits this committee or its purposes to force me to do this. this is my honest feeling about it. i don't think that this is fair play. i don't think that it is in the spirit of real americanism, as we know it. these are not people that are a danger to this country, gentlemen. they are people that i knew. they are people like myself. >> i direct the witness to answer the question. >> i -- i -- i do not refuse to answer the question. but i feel that the committee is doing a really dreadful thing that i don't believe the american people will look at kindly. this is my opinion. i don't -- i don't think that they will consider this as honest, just, and in the spirit of fair play. >> if you will just answer the question, please. the question was who were the members of the communist party cell to which you were assigned during the period of 1941 to 1945, or the period when you dissolved your membership with the communist party? >> well, morris carnoski, joe bramberg, sam rosen, andrew, lee cobb. >> what was that name? >> cobb. gill sandergard. dorothy tree. these are the principle names that i recall. >> was james cagney a member at any time? >> not -- not to my knowledge. i don't recall ever attending a meeting with him. >> was he a member of the communist party to your knowledge? >> i don't recall ever hearing that he was a -- >> edward g. robinson? >> no, no. i don't recall ever attending a meeting with edward g. robinson. >> humphry bogart? >> i don't recall ever attending a meeting with humphry bogart. >> i think that you could get some comfort out of the fact that the people whose names have been mentioned have been subpoenaed. so if they ever do appear here, it won't be as a result of anything that you have testified to. >> it is no comfort whatsoever. it's hard. [ applause ] >> and now he is going to read a section on his father, john cromwell. >> yeah. there are so many people in this room, ellen, gear and lots of other people here who suffered terribly because of this inquisition. i was going to -- my father's testimony was -- he had nothing to say. so i thought i would tell you the story about him. he came to hollywood at the beginning of sound because they didn't have directors that could handle dialogue. and he worked himself up and started to begin to direct pictures. and he was a fairly liberal democrat, a roosevelt democrat. and there was an organization called the hollywood democrats when he became president of the screen directors guild, he quit that organization. it moved slightly to the left. and my father had a party at his house. and there were members of the moscow art theater. and they were explaining to my father and the assembled that when a student graduated the conservatory, the acting conservatory, they were sent to the provinces. and then they worked their way back into moscow. so that the provinces got the best of the young actors trained in moscow, and the actors got to hone their craft and develop the skills that they would need once they got to moscow. and my father said my god, that's -- that's -- funny, i sound just like him then. my god, that's the way should it be done. what do we do in country? we take the best and brightest who come out of yale and northwestern and we send them to new york or hollywood. and we use them up in one year, and then they're gone. adolf manju happened to be at the party, who looks exactly as he is, a snake. and my father, who had a house in oregon, opened -- went to the mailbox and opened life magazine, and there was a full page article on huac, and there was a sequential series of photos of adolf testifying. and the scribble below the pictures is adolf maju testifies before the house on unamerican activities committee. the biggest communist in all of hollywood is john cromwell. so they called my father. now my father was working then at rko. and he had signed a million contract with dori sheri who owned the studio at the time. subsequent to that contract, it was sold to howard hughes. my father went and testified actually on the same day that bertold brecht testified. had nothing to say. so the committee sent a messenger to my father's agent, a wonderful agent named sam jaffe, and said there is no problem with john cromwell. well just want him to apologize. and sam said you will never get john cromwell to apologize to any committee. so howard hughes wanted him out. but he couldn't fire him without violating the contract. in the contract it stated he had to shoot any picture that the studio gave him. and they gave him a picture called "i married a communist." a piece of crap. my father, understanding that what they were doing said fine, i'll shoot the picture. but you can't shoot this script. this is horrible. you've got yes write this. so writer after writer came for months to try to fix this script, which they couldn't. they would have then had to have paid him double. to howard hughes wrote a check, 1953 for a million dollars. my father went to beverly hills, bought a building, and moved to the east, was in a play with henry fonda called "point of no return" about jp marquand for which he won a tony, and lived the rest of his life with my blessed stepmother who was in the group theater and who knew lee and kazan and many of the people, ellen's father. new these people really well. they had a wonderful, stunning life in the theater. my father swore he would never come back to this town, and he never did until the very end of his life. and i actually -- i regret that he did not get to do the pictures that he had in him. but i do not regret that he never put himself what this town put so many others through and must do that again. [ applause ] >> bravo! thank you so much, jamie. thank you. unlike writers, unlike writers and directors, actors could not act under a different name. they could not have a beard or a front because actors had their faces. that was all they had. phil lobe, co-star of "the goldbergs" tv series. he may have been suspected of being a marxist because he appeared in a marx brothers room service. the reds under the beds cold war hysteria also appears to have cricketed to the heart attacks of artists such as lee grant's husband, actor john garfield and his body and soul co-star canada lee whose last film was anti-apartheid "cry the beloved country." >> what we failed to mention is larry parks died of a heart attack in 1975. >> there is another one. >> and phil, who you mentioned, committed suicide. >> oh, yes, he jumped out a window. >> despite lee grant's oscar nomination for "detective story", her brief but bold story at the 1951 memorial service was enough to derail her promising acting. leigh survived, was academy award nominated three times and won the best supporting actress oscar for 1975 "shampoo". in a video specially prepared for our commemoration, leigh grant who turns 91 on october 31st shares her recollections on huac, the blacklist, her friend joe bramberg and more. >> we present lee grant. [ applause ] . >> hi. thank you so much for having this event. hi, marshall. happy birthday. what happened was that i left "detective story" the play and it became a gigantic film for which i was nominated best actress, best nominated for the best actress. i didn't win in 1952. and by that time, by the time i heard the news about my nomination and about the cannes film festival award, i couldn't work in film or television. i was blacklisted and i was blacklisted from 1952 when i was 24 to 1964 when i was 36. i left "detective story" to go into a play called "all you need is one good break." it was written by arnie manoff who later became my husband. and john barry directed it and starred in it. and bramberg was also starring in the play. and would stand in the wings with me as we were ready to go on. and he would say -- the american legion is out there. what if they try and stop the play. why would you say something like that? what's wrong? house unamerican activities committee is asking me to come on and testify. he had taken the fifth, which i didn't know at the time, of course. i can't take it. i have a bad heart. i can't take it. and i was so loving of this wonderful, sweet, kind actor who was a legend. he came from the group theater. and soon he left and went to london where he was in a play. and within a month of opening the play, he had a heart attack and died. and so when they set up a memorial to joe bramberg, i was asked as -- i knew young voice andre to talk about it. and it was at the edison hotel. it was just thousands were there. i mean, it was just everybody was showing up to show their support. and clifford odetz was there waiting for lefty i the giant writer from the group theater. and when it was my turn, i'd never spoken in public before. but i just told the audience what joe had told me, which was that the committee had gotten in touch with him and asked him to testify again, and he said he had a bad heart. and he tried to tell them that. and -- and it killed him. and -- and that was it. and then two days later, i went to actors equity, and an man sitting in front of me said i see that you made it on the list. i said what do you mean? and he took a book of red shadows, which was the blacklisting book, and there it was. and the reason was the things that i had said at joe bramberg's memorial. and so it was that my fortunes had changed. my life had been changed completely. and i learned how to fight. and i had an education, because the people who were blacklisted were such extraordinary writers and actors. and i felt so privileged to be in their company and to learn from them what values are and what to fight for. it's ironic and terrible that in this period of the gentleman who reminds me most of joseph mccarthy and the mccarthy committee is our very own president. [ applause ] it's not surprising since roy cohen was a kind of director and admonisher of joe mccarthy in the same way he was a mentor and lawyer to president trump. of the values that both men hold seem to be very, very similar, even their approach to their audience seems to be very much the same. it is staggering to me. and i know that you wouldn't be there in that room if it wasn't staggering to you too. but i leave you with a comradely blessing. we shall see change again. [ applause ] . >> get the lights. >> a great -- >> the committee calls madeline lee gilford. >> a great friend to lee grant and a partner in crime was my grandmother madeline lee. while she and her husband jack gilford were both blacklisted and testified, it is madeline's testimony that has the fire of an inspired activist. here to read the part of madeline is her daughter, my mother, lisa gilford. [ applause ] stage, radio -- no, you stay here, ma. you stay here. oh, yes. would you like a microphone? yeah, here. >> i want to thank ed for inviting us all. it's really a privilege. thank you. and i also want to say that my mother today would be 94 if she was alive. and she'd be here. and she'd still be fighting the good fight. she was hounded for five years for to be on the house american activities committee. and we were on the lam. we spent every summer on fire island where we didn't think the subpoena server would come. because they wore shoes, and we didn't wear shoes. but after five years, they found us. and they actually served my mother in a fairly violent service where my mother ended up hitting dolores scotty with my brother sam. >> true. she swung a baby at this subpoena server. >> and sam says when his head hit hers, he became subversive at a young age. >> and i will read my mother's testimony. i'm very proud. i am a red diaper baby, as is bobby miller, who also you'll be hearing from. we went to school together. and i just want to say if you want to hear more of this, and you're interested, my son and i and richard dreyfuss are making a documentary called "calling all women." and i advise you to find it and support us. because we need to get these stories out. >> more than a movie.com. >> more than a movie.com. >> i want to introduce leonard, the person playing leonard bodine here. >> bodine. well, you're not there. you don't know how he liked husband names. dr. spock -- budine is read by steven rohde, constitutional lick cherrer, and past chair of the aclu foundation southern california. >> oh, wow. >> you're well represented. >> thank you. >> i request no pictures be taken, and i know the chairman's prior instructions. and i repeat my requests. >> there will be no pictures taken after the witness is sworn. >> that doesn't meet my request. >> will you tell the committee please what formal education training you have had? >> wait. i'm sorry. new york public schools. >> have you attended any other schools? >> do you have anything in mind? >> of course he has something in mind. he is not asking questions just for fun. i direct you to answer the question. >> excuse me, mr. walter, i am not here for fun either. and have i been taken away from my three children at considerable expense. i can't offhand any. i have been blacklisted for five years. and so these occasional roles, i would be able to get, an occasional call when vincent hartnit in red channels and aware were not able to reach these employers with their inclusive lists. i have had a very hard time getting any occasional engagement. >> are you a member of actors equity, an american federation of television and radio artists? >> yes, sir. incidentally, i agree with those witnesses that don't think that it is pertinent to this inquiry. but i am proud to be a member of those unions and to make it quite clear that they are -- that they have been subverted, dominated and infiltrated by no one. and their own membership operate these unions in a democratic fashion. and all decisions are arrived at openly and democratically. and this committee seems to be on a fishing exhibition. >> you member ed expedition, don't you? >> no, i mean exhibition. >> i guess i know who is putting on the exhibition. now, if you pay attention to me instead of carrying on a continuing conversation with your lawyer, maybe you would hear these questions. >> i have a right to consult my lawyer. and it was not a continuing conversation. >> you have no right. we are extending a privilege, and you have no right. it is a privilege that the committee extends, even though we know what the results of such conferences will be. >> i don't understand that remark, mr. walter, and i resent it. and i would like an apology from you right now. i'm quite serious. and you are a member of the bar as am i. i think that i am entitled to an apology for your last remark. and you know very well what i mean. >> you bet i do. >> i want an apology. >> i think you protest too loud. you will get no apology. i want to ask you this question, miss lee. did you participate in such activities? >> i don't want any assumption that my attorney or anyone can dictate my answers here today. and they are dictated by my conscience and under the most severe pressure on the part of your subpoena server in an attempt to get me to deliver false testimony. and i am making the charge that this committee coerces witnesses with pressure, threats, and bribery and blackmail exercised on witnesses to cooperate with the committee is of no interest to this committee that this is happening? i am to take that it way. >> will you tell the committee whether or not there was group of persons within actors equity or the american federation of television and radio artists composed chiefly of members of the communist party? >> the communist label about communist groups has been stuck on anybody and everybody who organizes against the blacklist in our industry. on the basis of what i am saying here today, i will be punished. and cooperative witnesses will be rewarded. and that is not a high purpose on the part of a congressional committee. >> now that you have made your speech, will you answer my question? >> i am trying to testify to the fax. but you don't seem to want them. >> i submit, mr. chairman, she has not answered the question. and in my opinion, she is guilty of contempt. and i suggest we proceed to the next question. >> i object. and i decline to answer on the basis of the first amendment. >> don't decline until the question is asked. >> the witness is declining to the last question. and you didn't give her a chance to complete her last answer. and will you allow it to be stated for the record, if you please. >> i am declining on the basis of the first amendment that you are prying into my personal affairs, beliefs, and opinions. and on the basis of the fourth amendment, that this is an illegal search and seizure of my property and deprivation by due process of the law of the only thing i have to sell in this industry, my talent and my good name. i also decline on the basis of the eighth amendment, that this is cruel and unusual punishment that you are inflicting without due process of law and on the basis of the fifth amendment that you may not compel me to be a witness against myself. this is like a game of tag where you try to be as candid as possible and three congressmen are standing there waiting to say you waived your privilege that is not fair. >> you spoke of being candid. so let me ask you a candid question. are you a member of the communist party? >> you know, every november i go into a little booth and i mark a secret ballot. and i prize that very highly as part of the american way of life. and i believe that that question relates strictly to that. most people know from my public activities, and as you can see, i am a very talkative person and very willing to state my opinion. but not under compulsion and to a nefarious purpose on the part of this committee. divulging any political belief under compulsion is not a good american principle. is pressuring a witness so that he will not be employed a part of your congressional discretion? >> i want to ask you a question. >> i am asking you a question, mr. tavenner. >> she will run out of words. let her rant a little bit. >> it sunday when she gives that answer she is' rest lying on the protection afforded people by the first and fifth amendment. >> first, fourth, fifth, and eighth amendments. you not only want me to get out of work, but you want me to help other people get out of work. i am miscast. i am not joan of arc. the words recant and confess ready not exactly my dish. >> let us proceed. >> how can you be looking for facts when you reward friendly witnesses and punish unfriendly witnesses? i am perfectly willing to answer all of your questions about subversive and infiltration in the entertainment industry. and the answer is there is none. [ applause ] >> bravo! thank you. lisa gilford playing madeline lee. the witch-hunters call will gear to testify. >> will acted in tobacco road and movies since 1932. in 1935, after will directed clifford odette's anti-fascist play till the day i die, l.a. nazi sympathizers kidnapped and beat gear. but after his defiant 1951 testimony to huac, he, like many of his talented colleagues, was blacklisted. will went on to co-star in salt of the earth made by blacklisted filmmakers. and as grandpa walton in the 1970s hit tv series "the waltons." during the blacklist, will created a topanga canyon amphitheater for himself and others to act in. el again gear, also an actress, her screen credits include haired and maude, "desperate housewives" and room 104. and justin connolly, southern director of human rights watch joins as republican congressman harold felt. [ applause ] >> is mr. gear present? >> which one is the hot seat? >> how are you now employed? >> well, i am unemployed at present moment. i would have been employed. this interferes with spring planting. >> what was your last employment? >> my last employment, i just finished a picture called the tall target. >> did you furnish any references to those studios in connection with your employment? >> oh, god. have i been in theater for about 25 years, sir. i think i'm well enough known to all of them from the roles i have played. >> were you a member of the communist party in 1942? >> i stand on the grounds of the fifth amendment. well, that it might incriminate or degrade me. you see, the word communist is an emotional, hysterical word of the day. it's much like the word witch in salem. >> did you entertain -- did you entertain at any meetings of the communist party or branchs of the communist party other than the matters i have already referred to? >> oh, it's ancient history. i stand on the grounds of the fifth amendment. on the grounds of the fifth amendment of ancient history? >> on amendment, yes. >> so much emphasis has been placed by you on the ancient history, are you a member of the communist party now? >> i refuse to answer on the same grounds. >> ancient history? >> no. same grounds. >> when were you in russia? >> i went on a theatrical tour to see the moscow art festival in 1935. >> mr. geer, were you a member of or affiliated in any way with the american peace mobilization. >> well, there are about 400 or 500 organizations listed as being here. and i'd have to really consult the book to find out if -- it's difficult to remember the names of them. and at the present time, i play hospital benefits. i play veterans hospitals, a little group. we go around and we play veterans hospitals. for all i know, they might be listed in another six months as something all together out of order. things change very rapidly nowadays. >> were you at any time affiliated with the veterans of the abraham lincoln brigade? >> i would decline to answer that on the same grounds. >> did any producers talk to you about your activities either within alleged activities within communist party or the communist front organizations? >> i discussed it with one director, perhaps. and he asked me just what i was anywhere. and i told him i was a conservationist. you see, that is my philosophy. >> did your employers discuss your activities with you daily? >> never in connection with employment, to the best of my knowledge. i would be quite willing to discuss it with him at any time. >> with this committee? >> i should say no, sir. because this is a peculiar atmosphere we are living in today. and the citizen has to see clearly all the time how important it is to preserve individual rights. >> do you consider yourself to be a patriotic citizen? >> oh, i do indeed, sir. i love america. i love it enough to want to make it better. >> in the event of an armed conflict in which the united states would find itself opposed to soviet russia, would you be willing to fight on the side of the united states? >> actually, i would grow vegetables for victory for the farm bureau, as i did before. and i would play hospitals. you know, it would be a wonderful idea in fact if they put every man my age in the front lines, and you washington fellows on the other side. i think wars would be negotiated immediately. >> you have declined to answer on the ground that it might incriminate you. how? >> well, in my opinion, it is something set up outside. it is the committee set up. and you yourself or this committee has made these stipulations. it is something that has been set up. and to my mind, created artificially. >> you think that this committee is a persecuted committee? >> to my mind there is great similarities between the inquisition and people like in our country that have been persecuted like mormonmormons. >> do you believe the congress of the united states has the right to set up committee like is to search out subversive activities in this country? >> oh, i'm an entertainer. i'm not a lawyer. i don't know whether it would be right or not. in my opinion, i think it would be much more important right now to investigate inflation and the high cost of living. that's my own opinion. you know, we value to appear in a turkey now and again. >> if you are not a member of the communist party and have never been, do you think it would incriminate you to say so? >> at this particular time, although the communist party is a perfectly legal one, i think they should. i'm standing on the constitution. i believe that they're being persecuted now like the mormons, the jews, the quaker, the masons, even radical republicans in lincoln's day. >> would it be any crime to admit your membership in a legal party then? >> in this day of hysteria, it is, sir. well don't get the training in law that you do down in athens, georgia. >> do you want the decline to answer that question as to whether or not the attorneys advised you? >> i think it would be visible, sir. i'm sorry. >> all right. if you want to leave that cloud on them. >> oh, there are lots of clouds, war clouds, all sorts of clouds. >> bravo. [ applause ] >> that was ellen geer, reading will geer. howard s howard rodman, howard rodman, are you in the audience? howard rodman will speak on his father and walter bernstein, who was blacklisted in 1950 and wrote "the front." howard, take it away. >> walter who wrote the front is 97 years old and one of the wisest people i know. he was blacklisted for a decade and a half during which he couldn't write anything under his own name. so in order to make a living, he used a number of fronts, some of whom were delightfully cooperative in his effort to write under another name. and some of whom -- well, let's talk about that. in his memoir "inside out: a memoir of the blacklist" walter writes about his experience with particular front named howard. walter, a kind and generous man, did not use the last name of his front. but i will. it's howard rodman sr., my dad. and this is walter's story about his experiences writing under my father's name. then once again through the friend of a friend, i found a front. he was a talented writer named howard who was making a name for himself writing television dramas. he was also writing plays and keeping up with the scientific literature because he was undecideded whether to get the nobel prize for literature or for physics. he was serious about this. he would speak about it speculatively, weighing the comp pairtive advantages. he had no scientific training but internet felt that was no hindrance. it might even be an asset. he had a maniac's assurance, although in all other aspects he seemed generally sane. for a half hour series my ex-agent was writing. i wrote them both too quickly, my mind on a more pressing matter of personal romance. howard said nothing after the first show. but after the second he called and invited me to walk in central park. he walked in silence for a while and said sadly that my two shows were not very good. i could only agree. i apologize and said i hoped it had not hurt his reputation. but he was not worried about his reputation. i'm worried about you, he said. he was worried about my psyche. he believed all this was doing me harm. i had written badly through being temporarily deranged by lust because i knew unconsciously that i had to write-up to howard's standard. knowing that i ucouldn't, i had also acted unconsciously to prove the point. he thought that this must only continue if he fronted for me. he did not want to hurt me any further by having to write badly. maybe i'll write better next time, i suggested. he didn't think so. the hurdle was too great. he was sorry. he should have realized what would happen. i was not eugene o'neal or arthur mill. >> each of whom i gathered might come up to howard's standard. but it's your reputation that will be hurt, i pointed out. it's your name on the script, not mine. he shook his said. people in the business would knot know they were not his scripts. they were simply not good enough. they would think knowing his liberal politics that he had done exactly what he was doing, that he had lent his name to a blacklisted writer. what they would not know is the identity of the writer. in fact, howard's reputation would improve since everyone admired someone who the blacklist especially by taking risk. by not fronting for me he was actually making a sacrifice. he advised me eto find a front on my own level or below. that way i would be unencumbered by the comparison to write as best i could. he was kind about all of this, trying not to hurt my feelings. i thanked him for what he had done while thinking seriously about burying an ax in his head. but howard was sincere in his hatred of the blacklist. one time he needed to do research for a project that entail entailed a knowledge of manual labor. a blacklisted actor friend was then working as a ditch digger in west chester and got howard a temporary job on his shift. by coincidence, they found themselves digging in front of the mansion of a prominent tv producer. this so outraged howard that he began yelling at the man's house. denouncing the owner for living like this while blacklisted writers like himself were reduced to digging ditches. it took a while for his friend to calm howard down to the point where he would accept that he was in fact not blacklisted. later, howard went to hollywood and became a successful tv and movie writer, although the nobel prize continued to elude him. [ applause ] >> and now i'd like to introduce kenneth levy who has a few words to say about bobby lees. >> robert lees, bobby to all of us who knew and loved him, was a screenwriter. he was the life of the party in real life and regarding the communist party as well. the story of the schlemiel who walks into the room and you think someone has left. when bobby walked into a room, everybody smiled. everyone was glad to see him. similarly, when the hollywood cp needed a project done, they asked him to head it up, because he was the only one that everyone in that contentious group could stand. bobby wrote -- cowrote with aldo some of the pete smiths, some of the robert benchley shorts, buck prooifts, abbott and costello meet frankenstein. he was about 20 or 22 after the 19 who had been called. he refused to testify and was blacklisted. he asked to read a statement, which was refused. here to read it, i'm introducing bobby's granddaughter, my bonus daughter, tania verafield. [ applause ] >> statement of robert lees filed with the clerk for the record. i believe no man who has made writing his profession can completely disassociate himself from people. he writes about them. he writes for them. they're both his inspiration and his audience. their political freedom guarantees the necessary tools of his trade, freedom of thought and expression. i emphasize this relationship because it explains why i believe a writer must also function as a citizen. in my career as a writer, i've worked in the motion picture industry for the past 17 years, starting when i was old enough to vote. before that, i had attended grammer and high school in san francisco where i was born. my parents were also native san franciscans. in the itly '30s, i moved with them to career before i could completely freshman year. after a shot experience in films as an extra, i started a a screen writer at metro. for that company. mostly robert benchly and pete smith comedy. two of these won academy awards. i have received writing credit on some 15 feature films. starring such comedians as fred mcmurray. olson and johnson. i certainly don't think i have bun summoned to washington because of the cop dis. i believe i'm here because in the 17 years that i have worked as a writer i functioned as a citizen. i firmly supported the lebs of franklin roosevelt. i joined with other writers and artist in campaigning for him. building concerned with the rise of fascism in italy, spain and germany. i protested these dictatorships. during the war i worked to better relations with allies. for those same reasons i did several scripts for war bond shorts. i went to washington sdp prepared technical films. which was requested. it played in theaters and shops and war plants. i was given accommodation by the war department and car activity committee. since that time since death of president roosevelt i felt a growing concern along with others that our subsequent foreign policy hasn't been successful in achieving the peace the world fought so hard to obtain. i have been concerned with the administration get tough program on one hand and the fears of my two young children who tell me about the at tom bomb drills practiced in school. i'm concerned with the loyalty oath. the thought control and the endless investigations. because today must believe those who were allies are now enemies. and enemies are now friends. because of my concern and because i am a writer when has functioned as a citizen this exit tee demands i conform to the dictate or forced into silence. it is my belief that cause me to be summoned here. people whom the committee wishes me to expose. that i have been summoned here. i'm asked to purge my friends and conscious under threat of having my 17 years of work and devotion to my kaft end in blacklist. when i first decided to make writing many i career i did so because of what i felt about people. i have learned more about people and about writers and the tradition of writing since then. i know that i cannot write the war preferable to peace. or that bigotry or conformity are virtues. or one race or chosen group are superior to any other. and can deck at a time how others think or live. no man of integrity can write what he doesn't believe. no writer who is a true american can ever force himself to betray his citizen ship and his friends. or write the kind of material that will be forced upon the american people if this committee has its way. >> wow. i second that. richard dreyfus. your uber is here. i believe. you should go grab your luggage from my car. and get your uber. tom, dick and harry and produced assault of earth. tonight in particular, we are thinking of paul. here -- i wasn't joking. tonight in particular we are thinking of paul. here to read another statement. he didn't want to hear. is paul's son. bill. >> my father was an optimist and you should see if you can detect that. in this rather groommy excerpt. today, freedom and america are no longer . no more. do so and you lose your job. do so and you're smeared. do so and you go to jail. the miracle has become a mirage. you look around today and you see americans afraid to open their mouths or opening them only to purge themselves. only to purger themselves. only to inform on their friends considerate. in the land of the free. the hope of the brave. why? because we are threatened by communism. we are told. to protect our liberties, we must give up liberty. to preserve morality, we must abandon morality. to prempbt war we must prepare for war. to stop aggression, we must embark on aggression. with fantastic non-sense. what is communism? a are we allowed to discuss it? is it a militant form of socialism? does it require war by its nature? is it the opposite of freedom? are we allowed to debate it? what is capitalism? what it once progressive? is it now decadent? does need a war economy in order to survive? are we allowed to say so? no. for it is not our loyalty to the country that's judged. our loyalty to the particular economic system that prevails here. that is the bigs lie of all. that capitalism and democracy are somehow the same thing. that it's un-american to stand for social change. i'm proud of my believes. and i'm proud of my affiliation. i'll be damned though, if i'll disclose them to my enemy to be used against my friends. >> thank you. is nor ma barz man in attendance? barzman? there she is. screen writer and author one of the blacklist survivors and coinitiator of tonight's historic remembrance. to avoid, she lived in exile for decades with screen writer ben barzman and their family. she returned state side and wrote the books the red and the blacklist and the end of romance. and now she'll say a few words. >> greetings, everybody. okay. well, i'm speaking for two blacklisted screen writers. myself, nor ma barzman, 97. and for my husband. ben barzman. the boy with green hair, and many other wonderful movies. he died in 1989. this is not going to be sad what i'm about to tell you. this is a jolly story. on a hot day in 1949, ben came home early from mgm where he was working on turner. joined me on the front lawn of the home, 1290 sunset plaza drive. to wait for our 3 year-old daughter. and our 2 year-old son to return from the beach. all at once a very beautiful girl in a very beautiful car turned into our driveway. she got out quickly, mumbled, i ought to tell you as sheriff car is parked at the bottom of your hill, and the sheriff asks everyone if they're going to 1290. your house. i thought you ought to know. i thanked her, and held out my hand. my name is nor ma i said. she shook my hand, so is mine she said. i'm on my way to the ma nelly's and left. two years later in paris we saw her photograph on the a film. she was of course marilynne man row. after she left, the phone rang. director who lived with his family up the hill from us, said, they're serving subpoenas today. why don't we change houses? exchange houses. okay, said my husband. they had a pool. the next day when two fbi came to 1290 unset plaza drive, with a subpoena for ben. he said i am not ben barzman. they left. the two fbi guys came to us, with the subpoena. for bernie. ben said i am not and showed them out. well, clearly the time had come to leave. i convinced my mother to come with us to france. and helped her pack. can you hear me? the super chief to new york the over night mother stayed with the two children while ben and i saw death of a sales man. with lee j. cob. who later denounced us. next day queen mary to london and christ in concrete, directing. after the film eddy went back to the states to jail. and when he got out he named us. ben wrote the screen play and he never got paid. and sam in london because he too was blacklisted, starred in it. it's very good. we got -- let's see. we got a call from the united states to england to ben from ben's agent. he said don't come back. so we went onto france. for five years i wrote a lot of american tv with a pseudonym. and ben began to work in at european pictures. in 1951, my mother died. at the american hospital in paris. when i came out of her room, i saw a good friend director john barry. also a blacklisted exile. sitting on the floor of the corridor of the american hospital in paris. i said but jack, you hardly knew my mother. between tears and sobs, jack barry said i'm crying for all of us. in 1951, the u.s. embassy took my passport. i couldn't go anywhere. of course i had the children with me. ben was born in canada. became a us citizen. the u.s. state department took away his american citizen ship. but he did not get his canadian back automatically. not at all. he was stateless. a most wonderful thing for the french. they thought stateless was -- the french gave him papers that showed a he was stateless. and could travel everywhere. with no passport. i told you this was a jolly story. so we, well -- me, i didn't write. i didn't travel. i didn't anything. i bought and furnished two beautiful houses with beautiful antiques and encouraged seven beautiful children. in 1958, by act of the u.s. sue peer your court, they gave me back my passport. and gave ben back his citizen ship. soon after, ben got his citizen ship. the irs wrote ben asking for back taxes for the years from 1951 to 58. when he wasn't a citizen. he replied, with the f word. i wrote an original screen play finishing school which vor house made in rome. joe loci directed a film in italy. which ben wrote for paul muny. he came to italy to be nice because we were all blacklisted. so the two films were made in italy. and my sister's italian husband reported their doings to the american embassy in rome. loci and vor house had to run for it to england. i'm telling you this it was my brother-in-law who did it. okay. may 68. brought me back to life. i wrote a play about it. which ray said was too american for the french and too french for the american. so we returned to the united states in 1978. after 28 years abroad. hollywood was very different. everybody was gone. i went back to newspaper writing which i had done in the beginning. i had a column in the harold examiner. ben and i began to write a number of scripts together that were never made. one was finally going to be made by joe loci. it was starting to casting in england when joe died and ben died. after ben was dead, i palled around with glorious, brilliant, funny. one night at dinner, he suddenly got angry at me. for telling funny stories about it all. he said why the hell don't you write it? i did. so i wrote the red and the blacklist. well, why am i telling you all this? because writers live in the world what we write is influenced by what's happening in the world. and what is happening in the world is influenced by what we write. there is a great deal we can do and must do to make a better world, especially now. okay. that's all. all right. >> yes, thank you. thank you so much. don't just stand there. do something. how beautiful. are you in the house? mr. la bow? red and blue is about how hollywood movies -- i'll let him tell you. talent completely silenced. here is french film maker. to present a clip from his new document red and blue. never before shown in america. >> any time, guys. >> so we are very pleased to show you a clip from the movie we made. red and blue. which is talking about the representation of the russian reflation of 1917. it's a movie for french tv. originally. but you have of course an english version. in which you will show talking about the blacklist. which is small part of the movie. and we are also we would like to tell you that we are current lu shooting a new movie about the difficult relationship between donald trump and hollywood. difficult relationship. and we are in the los angeles until the end of next week. if you are interested to participate in the movie, and appear on french tv. feel free to go to us. and we will be very glad to see you. so. >> in france we have just free world for resumed democracy. liberty. and in hollywood, you have one world. for democracy. the word is cinema. >> let's take a look at the clip. >> the cold war hysteria in the movies it's a very interesting thing. because there were a number of movies that came out in the 1950s. that were just made fun of by the cone brothers in a film called hail seize sar with george clooney. these very on the nose anticommunist movies like something like i married a communist for the fbi. or stuff like that. they weren't successful. people didn't go see these overtly anticommunist films. what was successful, were those movies such as the invasion of the body snatcher. that took the anticommunist hysteria and put it within the sigh fie genera. for example, in body snatchers the pod people repeat slogans that sound as if they're straight out of stereo typical stalennist handbooks. >> i'm spartan. >> are their revolutionary messages in movies in planet of the apes? the answer is absolutely yes. first of all who wrote them? the novel was written by howard fast. who had been a member of the communist party u.s. the screen play for spartan kus a member of the communist party. at the end of sparta kus. it's a beautiful scene. human solidarity. which is what socialism is about. sticking together. it's more than that. at the end, it's like the whole thing in the hollywood blacklist. will you be an informer? will you name names? we want to get the real sparta kus. and tony cur tis and all the other gladiators and revolutionaries stand up in what must have been the dream of trum bow at the time. and say i'm dalten trum bow. actually they say i'm spar it kus. you can imagine the members of the hollywood ten wanted the masses of people that they had fought for. their union rights. their benefits. >> hollywood loves to make movies about failed revolutions. so even back in the 1930s you have a number of films about the mexican revolution. you have and sparta kus a failed revolution. but the lesson is revolutions will fail. >> fire! >> planet of the apes. michael wilson was one of the great screen writers of the hollywood reds. he cowrote oscar winning films. bridge in the river kwi. lawrence of arabia. and couldn't use his name. and in planet of the apes, by that time, i guess that was in the late 60s. he was able to use his name. and you know there's a scene in there that's a court and it's all like dialogue taken from the hollywood blacklist. you can almost hear them saying are you now or have you ever been an ape? a member of the ape party? and so they very deliberately put their politics into different generas. you can see when they had the chance, they would express their politics. but often in very creative and filmic ways. >>. ♪ ♪ [ applause ] >> how very that ending there. thanks guys. we are going to take a break. can you believe it? it's the intermission already. i bet you're very excited to get out there. before we do that. we want to take we want to have our opera singer come up here. to perform a signature song. >> thank you. as paul would say, an artist must elect to fight for freedom or slavery. i have made my choice. i have no alternative. ♪ what does he care if the world's got trouble ♪ what does he care if the land ain't free ♪ ♪ old man river that old man river ♪ he must know something but don't say nothing ♪ he just keeps rolling he keeps on rolling along ♪ he don't plant garden and in that planting is soon forgotten but old man river he just keeps rolling ♪ ♪ along ♪ you and me we sweat and strain body all aching and racked with pain ♪ hope that lift that bill you show grit and you land in jail ♪ i keep laughing instead of crying i must keep fighting until i'm dying ♪ but old man river he just keeps rolling along ♪ ♪ i dreamed i saw last night alive as you and me ♪ no ♪ i never died says he bless you. >> wow. that was amazing. now let's have a ten minute intermission. and as swing ink is playing in the lobby and of course i'll remind you the copies of the document tear red and blue are available in the lobby for sale. come back, y'all. >> thank you all so much for sticking with it. i'm sure the hearings were more painful than this. so you all consider yourselves lucky. that this is the tengts extent of it. i want to see if i can get bob by miller. to come up here. and read a very special letter that his father wrote to the committee. that has never before been published or heard. so that's going to be something fantastic. is he in the house? well, it thinned out a bit. they got blacklisted. my mother is herding them. come on, everybody. don't hurry but hurry. where's his intro-? thank you. >> all right. here's the intro-. all right. are we getting close? yes, there we have -- don't, please. take your time. we don't need anybody rushing. i don't know if anybody knows what a remarkable person our living legend here is. mar sha. we gave her a happy birthday and it was all quick. but what she's done in her life is really amazing. and what she's done since. i encourage you all to watch this document or search out more information. on a living legend. yes. oh my goodness. talk about pr horrors. it's believed that a major reason why summoned play write arthur miller in 1956. as they wanted to meet his then wife, monroe. our american shakespeare who wrote classics such as death of a sales man. here to read a special letter his father wrote to the committee. is his son. now you can dim the lights. >> i have to switch glasses. this was a letter that dad wrote to the honor able francis e. walter. my dear mr. walter, i'm informed by my attorneys that at times in the past the house commit teet on un-american activities has refrained from citing witnesses for contempt under circumstances not very different from those obtaining my hearing. i would like to present to your committee certain considerations which have moved me to decline names of the people i recall as having been present at the meetings of the kmub communist writers which i attended in 1947. i write here in the same spirit with which i entered the hearing room. i believed then and i believe yet that my own candor in speaking of my past associations is my best defense for i know myself to be a devoted person to democratic institutions and opposed to to total narism. the meetings in question -- next page. excuse me one second. as proof, forgive me here folks. my glasses. stand as proof of this. for 20 years now i have spent the better part of every day forming and testing my vision of man and society. my sense of what is truly going on in the world around me. for a play such as i write has no force if not the force of evident truth. these plays speak my deepest feelings and are the most complete and unmitigated expression of my viewpoint towards every kind of social manifestation. and institution. in the profoundest sense therefore these plays are myself. for good or for ill. and i have not the slightist doubt that they are both humane and democratic works which could not have been written except by one devoted to the democrat hoing for man and the concept of his nature. if now by my unwillingness to answer a single question about the identity. if my character and citizen shim are to be judged. it means to me the labor of revelation lasting 20 years is brought down to nothing in a single moment. and the daily struggle i have waged to speak clearly in the most public of public places the american stage. is altogether mocked. had i hidden my opinion in my views my sense of reality and my apprehension for my fellow man, and written trivia in the common of the stage, i should perhaps feel differently. or had i sold my talent for security. as i could have done 100 times. but i have gladly risked everything time and again for the freedom on stage blessedly permits. that freedom to expose my thoughts. and unhired. now to have to prove my fidelity to freedom an idea to which my works are dedicated would be an action and travesty of labor itself. if i must be judged let me be judged but what my native impulses led me to do. necessity makes opportunity. if in truth i have done evil, the naming of others surely cannot mitt game that evil or erase it. the refusal to name them cannot make the evil worse than it was. nor can i bloef that such a willingness be tokens in itself be respect for the congress. or that in this instance unwillingness is mark of disrespect that alone contempt. as i have done so i do now. resting my case. not upon protection of the law but on the spontaneous revelation in my works and on the record of my life. i cannot confess another man therefore. and i ask the committee to consider where true respect lies in such a case. and where contempt. it is no news to the world that there are word of agreement and which in truth to mean. and conscientious reservation which magfy the dignity of the state. respectfully yours, arthur miller. >> the committee calls lillian heldman. >> ratner the sister of the late michael ratner. ellen is one of fox news few lefty. she reads the letter to which was read during her hearing may 21, 1952. by the committee chairman. >> i'm also bill jar -- there's a connection. so mr. wood as you know, i am under subpoena to appear before your committee on may 21, 1952. i am most willing to answer all questions about myself. i have nothing to hide from your committee. and there's nothing in my life which i am ashamed. i have been advised by counsel that under the fifth amendment i have a constitutional privilege to decline to answer questions about my political opinion, is activity, associations. on the grounds of self-incrimination. i do not wish to claim this privilege. i'm ready and willing to testify before the representatives of our government. as to my own opinions and my own actions regardless of any risk or consequence to myself. but i am advised by counsel that if i answer the committees questions about myself, i must also answer questions about other people. and that if i refuse to do so i can be cited for contempt. my counsel tells me if i answer questions about myself, i will have waived my rights under the fifth amendment and could be forced legally to answer questions about others. this is very difficult for a laymen to understand. there is one principle i do understand, i am not willing now or in the future to bring bad troubles to people who in my past association with them were completely innocent of any talk or action that was disloyal or subversive. i do not like subversion or disloyalty in any form. if i had ever seen any, i would have considered it my duty to have reported it to the proper authority. but to hurt innocent people whom i knew many years ago in order to save myself to me is inhuman. and indecent and dishon roshl. i cannot and will not cut my conscious to fill this years fashions. even though i long ago came to the conclusion that i was not a political person and could have no comfortable place in any political group, i was raised in an old fashion american tradition. there were certain homely things that were taught to me. to try and tell the truth. not to bear false witness. not to harm my neighbor. to be loyal to my country. and so on. in general i respected these ideas of christian honor. and did as well with them as i knew how. it is my belief that you will agree with the simple rules of human decent si. and not expect me to violate the good american tradition from which they spring. i would therefore like to come before you and speak of myself. i am prepared to waive the privilege against self-incrimination. and tell you everything you wish to know about my views or actions. if your committee will agree refrain from asking me to name other people. if the committee is unwilling to give me the assurance, i will be forced to plead the privilege of the fifth amendment at the hearing. a reply to the letter would be greatly appreciated. sincerely yours, lillian hellman. there was a question i think you were supposed to ask me. okay. >> now for one of tonight's highlights. a family reunion that proves sister hood is powerful. appeared on stage radio, tv and 80 movies including 1936 mr. deeds go to town. the original 1937 of star is born. and 1968 once upon a time in the west. due to his ras pi voice and tough guy demeanor the bronx born played heavies in such movies as 1937 the last gangster. 1966 cul-de-sac. and 1971 the gang that couldn't shoot straight. he played max the chauffeur and butler in heart to heart. he belonged to the hollywood antifascist league and raised money for the spanish loyalist. and striking farm workers. as a joke he was sold the international while waiting for an elevator in 1938 no time to marry. off screen, he had time to marry six wives. at different times. and had as many daughters. here for the first time ever. five of his daughters have been brought together united by the tribute. his testimony was fierce. if not a performance for his life, the performance of his life. to do justice to their fathers fiery words it will take no less than five readers. his defiant daughters. to read them. ladies and gentlemen. please give a round of applause to jennifer stander, a producer in la. a writer in la. bell la, a writer in and publisher in new york. joy powers, a social justice activist and pioneering figure in the san francisco bay area food community. and michael kartder a retired attorney and miami police sergeant in florida. the five daughters will jointly read the testimony. >> we have edited down excerpts from his testimony. there was a lot of gavel pounding and arguing. and interrupting. i think it is very desirous to the american people to know about everything that was happening here. just to have my name appear in a association with the committee, it's like the spanish inquisition. you may not be burned but you can't help coming away a little singed. i am more than willing to cooperate, i don't know about the over throw of the government. this committee has been investigating 15 years so far and hasn't found one agent of violence. i know of some subversion. and i can help the committee. if it is really interested. i know of a group of fa nanices who are desperately trying to under mine the constitution of the united states by depriving artists and others of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness without due process of law. if you are spresed in that, i would like to tell you all about it. i can tell names. and i can cite instances and i am one of the first victims of it. and if you are interested in that, and also a group of america firsters and antipeople who hate everybody including minority groups and most likely themselves. and these people are engaged in the conspiracy outside all the legal processes to under mine our very fundamental american concepts upon which our entire system of jurisprudence exists. >> i just want to that you think for the honor of being here. i'd love to imitate my fathers voice. but the first time i did that my mother took me to the doctor. i'll have to do it in my own voice. you said you would like me to cooperate with you in your attempt to unearth subversive activity. i know of such subversive activity. i began to tell you about them. and i am shocked by your cutting me off. you don't seem to be interested in the sort of subversive activity i know about. i am not a dupe. or a dope. or a moe or a smoe and everything i did i was absolutely conscious of what i was doing. and i am not ashamed of everything i said in public or private. and i am very proud of my war record. my private record as a citizen, and my public record as an in r entertainer. i am not charged with being a member of the communist party. i am not charged with lying under oath. because i have made continuous oaths to various government agencies. you are not charges me with being a communist, right? i want that clear. i haven't been accused of anything. i want that very straight. because through newspaper headlines, people get pe cue lar attitudes. near appearance here, not just appearance chl the mere fact in many case that was subpoenaed is amount to being black litsed. because people say what is an actor doing in front of the un-american activities committee? i want to state right now i was not trying to be smart. or funny. i i have never been more deadly serious in my life. if anything i have said seemed humorous or funny, i assure you it was purely coincidence and doesn't mirror what i feel. my entire career and the respect of my fellow artists and the american people is at stake. i am not trying to be funny. or put on a show. if i did, i would have the lights on. >> i swore under oath before the committee in 1940. and i was not a member of the communist party. i swore in 1940 before the los angeles grand jury. it's district attorney and i forced my way in there. i was a voluntary witness. and the district attorney clear me and release a statement to the press ob solving me or participation whatsoever. and the grand jury cleared me of the charges made before them. so, i i've been cleared by the district attorney. and the grand jury. said i was a fine patriotic american citizen. i have sworn under oath. and if any of these charges be true, why haven't i been indicted. i don't want to be responsible for a whole stable of informers, stool pick pigeons and psycho paths and expolitical heretics who come in here betting their chest and sooim awfully sorry i didn't know what i was doing. please i want absolution. get me back into pictures. they will do anything. they will name anybody, and they will go to any extent necessary. to get back into pictures. therefore i decline to answer that question. because it clearly is not rel vent to the purpose of this committee. and it violates my rights under the first and fifth amendment of the constitution of the united states. and incidentally don't give the routine about hiding. i find the obl only people who find behind immunity are the witnesses. the stool pickens used here. my estimation of this committee, is that this committee arrogates judicial powers which it does not possess. >> my record is absolutely clear. how many times do i have to swear under oath before a governmental agency? and how many times do you have to use my name to get headlines? i have already sworn under oath that i am not now a member of the communist party. and i swore in 1940 i was never a member of the communist party. and never will be. and i would have to be pretty stupid if i swore that in 1940 and know the fbi automatically gets copies of every complaint that i joined the communist party later. i would have to be a complete idiot. this is a terribly disgraceful experience to go through. to be brought here because of these insinuations and accusations. and something you won't dare charge me with. this committee says i am not charged with anything. yet you are trying to trick me. into di prooifing me of my constitutional rights. you know i swore urn oath. if there was any real evidence to refute my sworn testimony, i would be indicted. i wouldn't be brought here before this committee. and it's two years. two years since i have requested an appearance. during which this fanatic group of subversives have blacklisted artists, and our attempting to impose censorship on the free fritter that we all believe in and love. and you people are in a way instrumental in aiding them. >> i have a freedom of belief. you as congressmen uphold the constitution and you know the federal judges have said that when ever a congressional committee upon areas from which its forbidden to. it is the duty and right of the citizen to avail themselves of this privilege. i decline under the first amendment which entitles me to freedom of belief. under the fifth amendment which states that i will not be forced to testify against myself. and also in which there is no infrance of guilt. it's designed to protect the innocent. and under the ninth amendment, which gives me other rights. for instance, the right to get up in the union hall. which i did. and introduce a resolution condemning this congressional committee. for its abuse of power. in attempting to impose censorship upon the american theater. i decline to answer under my constitutional right which i am proud of. and i resent the inference here that anyone who uses it which our forefathers fought for is guilty of anything. you know this is an ancient right of the american people. unfortunately in futile spain, my ancestors didn't have the protection of this. they didn't have the protection of the united states constitution. and they were religious refugees. i have done a little research on this since you called me. and the first experience of it was and i am not being sack religious, was when jesus christ was asked these judges have a will the of witnesses against you, and he said nothing. by inference and alk accusation you accuse me. because you know this committee can't charge me with anything. you have no judicial power. your purpose is investigative. i can't see how any of the questions can aid the committee in its legal purpose which is to recommend legislation. all right, folks. well. the committee has to wrap tonight at 11:30. we have a lot to get through. i want to beg anyone who is coming up here to be brief. feel free to cut your testimony in half. so that we can get to everybody tonight. there are young children at home waiting to be fed. i implore you. with that i introduce pepper. who hopefully will say a few words. and introduce someone of lovely surprise. who will say a few words. he doesn't have to cut his bit. >> that's a tall order. for me to keep it brief. but i will try. i'm author margo pepper. the blacklist supposedly began to disintegrate on january 20, 1960. with director announcement that blacklisted screen writers would receive full credit for the script of his film exodus. but in reality, for others, like my father. george pepper. the blacklist is still in place. my father produced four movies in the 1950s. two were directed by spanish film icon. but in the u.s., george's name doesn't appear on a single film. in mexico, and france however, where there was no blacklist my fathers films are listed correctly. in the 2013 review for films of stated that my father's the young one was a many respects the most remarkable film. although bizarrely it is often omitted from discussion of his work. and remains his most neglected and under rated film. primarily a film which condemns racial prejudice. and was ahead of its time. it was particularly ill received in america. where the narrow minded bigotry of some prominent critics consigned it to immediate oblivion. referred to my father as1977, a effort spear headed by paul jericho. however my repeated attempts to restore my father's name have been ignored by the motion picture association of america, the producers guild, imbd and wick proceed ya. george who used to earn a living after he was blacklisted, a violin prodigy beginning alt age 4, george gee pepper made headlines. by 2004 his violin career was ended. he turned to politics, and under his leadership of executive secretary, the organization began the major outpost west of the hudson river. in 1951, george fled to mexico city with his wife janette pepper to dodge subpoenas. their community of resistance at one time or another included collion trump l, miguel rubio, it goes on. i'll skip. while in exile my parents' mailed overseas including royaltity payments from the states. men were legally kidnaped by the fbi. in mexico my father met a screen writer, and under the guise of his company he made the invention of robertson excuse sew. [speaking foreign language] and the young one. hopefully you can go online and see the dates and translations. my father never brought the return portion of his ticket to mexico. his ashes were scattered in the park i played in across the street from my apartment when i was 7. as part of their retro spet tiff on -- restored the little giants for showing november 18 at 2:00. and for the first time, we'll announce my father's true name. it still doesn't restore his name officially, that's up to the producers guild, we didn't have a union i guess, but like ed ram pel, like his event tonight, it will shine a spotlight on george pepper's position on that 7-year-old blacklist. that "blacklist" itself will truly be over when cooperate roroo radio, television, books, and now sport's teams is -- by colin kaepernick. some sensors voices that reflect the politics and economic interest of our multiracial, 99%, and when all blacklisted victims get hired, published or their names restored on their work, including my father, george pepper. >> all right. thank you. wonderful. >> rafael pepper has -- in canada's the scope, berkeley time, and street spirit, fluid in spanish he plays in a band and likes means. today is his birthday. here rafael discusses his grandfather, george pepper. >> my fame is rafael pepper clark, i'm the grandson of george pepper, a blacklister, producer and organizationer. today october 27, 2017 happens to be the 70th anniversary of the resistance of blacklist. i have born on the day 13 years ago and like my grandparents i've never snitched. even if i may get in trouble myself. my grandpa did the same to avoid naming names and the consequences of having to move to mexico. but then he was blacklisted so he stayed there. just like my age today the blacklist lasted 13 years until it was agreed that trump bow should have his name -- agreed that trump bow should put his name on the movie exodus but not for my grandfather. george p worker as the producer instead of george pepper. recently for the first time i saw a movie he produced. "the little giants". it was about a poor little league baseball team from mexico without resources. they came to the u.s. to play baseball in the world series. all odds were against them and they managed to win the championship. i think the reason george chose to make the film was because the little giants were like the "blacklist." there was little on tackles -- and ended the black lis. like the little giants they kept trying and all their hard work paid off. i was frustrated because the movie was in spanish and although i speak it, i could barely understand it. i was glad to hear the academy of motion pictures made a new version of the movie. i was proud because my grandfather produced this and other movies and it's amazing to see other films he produced later with over 306,000 on youtube. but sadly because he was blacklisted he had to put george p worker on his family instead of george pepper. i think this is unfair, he put all his work into his movies and couldn't get his real name on them. if it wasn't for the blacklist and graf having to move to mexico more people could have watched the movie and it could have been more popular and my graph will be recognized for what he did just like anyone else. just because he was in favor of peace and free speech, healthcare and education for everyone he shouldn't have been blacklisted and move to other countries. we should respect this beliefs especially with trump in office trying to take away these rights. >> this is not a political event remember. yes, let's give credit where credit is due. any time you see a george pepper film misnamed i want you to make sure you put in the comment the correct producer. laura bessler, the great niece of actress may nerve va pias reads the listing she was involved with. laura bessler. >> hi. i'm very pleased to be here. my great aunt may ner va pias was a radio actress who was a star on the fred radio show. if you were around in the '40s and listened to the radio you would have known her. she left the country for england and then france avoiding subpoena. and she was the new york president of what was then after ra which is now -- this was pretelevision. so my aunt mini was famous as mrs. nose bomb on the fred allen show. and he would come to say hello to her and she would say things like, you was expecting someone else. in those days we had a different kind of consciousness and that was pretty funny. in red channels she was listed as an actress in radio and her activities were reported for nuisance democracy. stage for action, a member of the advisory counsel. excuse me. veterans of the abraham lincoln agree brigade, a civil rights congress and the list goes on. national counsel for the arts and sciences and professions and as a member of that group, a signer in an open letter denouncing the motion picture producers for their shocking and degrading capitulation to the discredited and irresponsible house on american activities committee. thank you, sirs. >> thank you so much. pete seager was a renown folk singer and life long pr progressive. he's not here tonight. hear to read pete's testimony is salaam. president of the muslim affairs counsel. hollywood is not only knnotorio for blacklisting but -- portraying hugo act congressman gord gordan h. sure. >> what is your occupation? >> well i have worked at many things and my pain profession is a student of american folklore. and i make my lives as a banjo picker, sort of adaming in some people's opinion. >> you say you were in the armed forces of the united states? >> i went in in july of '92. >> and returned in the service of september of '95. you continued in your profession. >> i continued singing and i suspect suspect i always will. >> i have before me a foreign copy in the issue of daily work. a column entitled "what's on" in this version. tonight's bronx. what i i ask you whether or not the alsoing ton section was a section of the columnist party? >> sir, i refuse to answer that question. whether it was a quote from the "new york times" or the vegetation journal. i am not beginning to answer any questions as to my associations, my philosophical or religious beliefs or political beliefs or how i vote in any election of these private affairs. i think these are improper questions for any american to be asked especially under such compulsion as this. i feel in my whole life i have never done anything of nikon spirittorial nature and i resent very much and deep when i the imoccasion of being called before this committee that in some way because my opinions may be different from yours, that i am any less of an american of anybody else. i love my country very deeply, sir. >> why don't you make a little contribution toward preserving its constitutions? >> i feel like my whole life is contribution. >> answer the question. >> i have already given you my answer sir. >> let me understand you are not relying on the 5th amendment? >> norse. although i don't want to discredit the witness who used the fifth amendment and i feel it is improper for this committee to ask such questions. i feel their immorale to ask any american this kind of question. >> i assume then you hear me read the testimony of mr. ka sohn about the purpose of activist parties. i want to know whether or not you are engaged in a similar type of service to the economist party in entertaining at these features? >> i have sung for americans of every political persuasion and i'm proud i have never refused to sing to an audience no matter the religion, color of their skin. i am proud that i after never refused to sing for anybody. that is the only an i can give along that line. >> i hand you a photograph which was taken on the may day parade in new york city in 1952, which shows the front rank of a group of individuals and one is in a uniform with a military cap and insignia carrying a plaque card entitled sensored. is that photograph of you? >> it is like jesus christ, when asked by pontius pilot, are you the king of the jews. i say, let someone else identify it. cts we are not accepting the answers and reasons you gave. >> that is your prerogative, sir. >> zuns it is the feeling of the committee that you are in cop tempt of the result of the position you take? >> i condition say. i'm telling you i hate to waste the committee's time. surely you must realize by now my answer is the same. that is the position of the economy. i love my country dealer and i greatly resent this implication because of some of the places i have sung and people i have known and some of my opinions weather they are religious or philosophical may be a vegetarian making me any less of an american. [ applause ] >> just i want to say as an american/muslim i'm proud to be standing on the shoulder of camons and jeents ligiants like you. thank you for the opportunity to be with you. thank you. >> as we've seen tonight, women played a key role and resisting. helen heavy vac was one of the women. once they were blacklisted ellen and her husband wrote t.v. codes using young names. they graduated a generation of highly successful african-american screen and t.v. writers. the new novel, "the wire recorder" is available for sell in the lobby. here to read her grandmother's statement is tom's daughter. sarah star lovett. >> there's no such thing as an almost freedom. if you modify freedom of expression and conscious and association according to the current popularity and the words expressed and beliefs held and the people associated with you have destroyed those freedoms. they are destroyed not only for an unpopular minority but for everyone. and his believes and associations with caution. let's they be interpreted in an unpopular way. every man has the right to be unpopular or even wrong in these areas without suffering the consequence of blacklist or jail. most peace love lg people will find themselves unpopular with this committee. a xena be held accountable only for its acts. this principle has been written into our constitution and spelled out for this committee often and eloquently. the committee's continued intimidation of all people under the pretext of attacking a few as its fundamental purpose. i do not, therefore intend to enter my beliefs or my associations in a popularity contest in which the members of this committee are the judges. i shall offer no cooperation to the evil purpose of these hearings, except that which the force of law compels. i shall resist the committee in every way that the constitution provide. >> the day these hearings began, my oldest child started kinder zbarten. as i sat in this room my thoughts woernd to my little boy and the world of learning and discovery that lie before him. before me was a congressional committee emasculating our heritage of freedom of conscious and i wondered what plans it must have in store for rewriting our children's history books. can they afford to have eager youngsters memorizing words such as all men are created equal or freedom of speech. will they add footnotes to the history book saying, of course when our forefathers spoke of all men being equal they did not have the sign tisk theories of race developed in nazi germany. will they rearrange the schedule so the atom bomb drill interrupt -- what does freedom of speech mean if my daddy is blacklisted when he says something somebody doesn't agree with. what am ito teach my son our daughter? be careful children not to think any thoughts not allowed. and above all be conscious about associated with any person who has not thoroughly approved. this will be distasteful but it will guarantee that my children would then be safe from the threats of blacklist or jail, it might be tempting. unfortunately it guarantees no such things. the approved thoughts and speech and associations of one day might be disapproved on a later day. for my children to be really safe, i must train them to think no thoughts, to speak no words, and to trust no person. it's either that or an america where all people can once more think and speak freely and associate with whom they please without penalty. faced with such a trace, any mother who feels a responsibility toward her children must take her stand for freedom of conscious and opposition to this committee. >> must tell will take the witness stand. >> he was loved for -- aundrea costarred in the 1976 classy the front who played bring, a comedian driven to suicide by the blacklist. today aundrea read her costar's testimony. dick price, copublisher of our cosponsor hollywood progressive reads democratic congressman, clyde doyle. >> in 1935 i was a painter, an artist and i worked on wpa as a painter and subsequently i became an entertainer in 1942. i have been in the entertainment field since. >> from 1935 until 1932 you followed the occupation of an artist? >> i called myself an artist. maybe i am the only one who did, but i also did many odd jobs so i could paint. 1942, and then did several independent films for colombia, warner brothers and i was signed with a contract for 20th century fox or is it 18th century fox? i don't recall. 20th century fox. so i would say the next time i appeared was eight years later in a film. the greatest artistic thing that has ever come down the pike called the enforcer with humphrey bow guard. >> you are also known by zero, as a nickname are you not? >> yes, sir. after my financial standing in the community, sir. >> were you a must be of the young communist lead prior to to be employed at the society? >> that has nothing to do with my employment, obviously. your question, i refuse to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment. >> during the course of our hearings the committee has heard evidence of the assistance given to various parties entertaining at communist party functions. >> and many other meetings healed for common heart, commonly cold and other favorites. which is a cry for accusation that the sole function of the communist is to overthrow the government. >> do you recall engaging in that entertainment for the anti-fascist committee. >> was this an -- >> yes, sir. >> then i decline to answer that question. incidentally there's fine names on it. granton and milton burl. >> none of whom have been identified in open party. >> but, sir, the joint anti-fascist refugee committee was on the tornado warning's li. my point is nevertheless the organization for which they appeared, apparently here, my memory isn't clear on that was declared sub versive by the attorney general list long after that particular organization. also, what i understand of your questioning sir, i wasn't accused of isn't to be a must be of communist party. i am relying on my constitution feeling, i am not a big legal brain. >> i have before me a copy of a letter named of january 21st, 1946 on the letterhead of american head of spanish freedom. it is a letter written for spanish freedom for the chairman of this committee. >> that was fool hearty. >> i think there is a red underscoring appearing on the document by the flame name of zero martel. >> i wish it was a blue line. i decline to answer these questions on my constructional rights. >> did you become a member of television artists? >> no, sir, i have been blacklisted on television. >> that, we never look forward to any hearing of this committee where any american citizen is being cross examined. we don't look forward to it with pleasure. >> i sure don't either. >> why don't you remove yourself far from that atmosphere, sir? you can be much better inspiration and joy to the american people if they know it's not a drop, not an ink point or pinpoint or favorable attitude added by you towards the conspiracy? >> my dear friend, i believe in the idea that a man works in his profession according to his ability rather than his political beliefs. when i entertain my political briefs are not spouted. as a matter of fact, i am casual about my political beliefs which i wouldn't tell anybody unless you are my friend and you are in my house. and i have bad instant coffee i make i'll tell you that. >> i'm not asking about your political beliefs. >> my dear friend i believe in the idea that a human being should go on a stage and entertain to the best of his ability and whatever he wants to say, because we live, i hope in an sphere of freedom in this country. >> communist propaganda cannot exist without the funds that derive from programs of this kind. and i say your name for which funds have been raised bolstered and funned those purposes whether or not you appeared. >> maybe it is unrise and politic for me to say this. if i appeared there what if i did an imitation of a butterfly at rest. therefore, i was not. there was no crime in making anybody laugh. i don't care if you laugh at me. >> if your interpretation of a butterfly at rest brought any money into the coffers of the communist party you contributed directly to the propaganda effort of the communist party, now that is where it is important. >> supposed i had to early morning to do the butterfly at rest somewhere. >> yeah but please when you have an urge don't have such an urge of putting the butterfly at risk by putting money into the communist coffers as a result of that urge to put the butterfly at rest. butt the bug to rest someplace else next time. >> i suggest we put this hearing butter flay to rest. the tickets however were on sell significantly enough at the jefferson book shop which i believe is a notorious common must book shop? the worker's book shop? they were not on sale at macy's basement. >> they may have been. >> the witness is excused. thank you mr. must tell. remember what i said to. >> you remember what i said to you. >> the committee calls abraham possession land ski to the stand. >> a journey ckagan directed richard rifle -- conspiracy, the trial of the chicago 8 and this year's shot about gun violence. we have closen the director of the closen to read, write or direct the testimony. just justin connelly will be congressman veld. sha rin kyle, copublisher of our progressive reads as republican congress. potter. >> what were some of the productions which you were connected? >> i wrote the play force of evil and i was a sole author of the screen play, i can get it for you on sale. >> were you an if you believe of actor's laboratory? >> this is a question we'll have to talk about here. i'm going to refuse to answer that question and so far as the 1st amendment is to it i'd like to use that one too. >> question, would you -- >> i would permit -- >> as spousesing the views of communism? >> yeah. yes, sir. >> and securing the position did you sign this statement or did you make this answer to an inquiry that is made the inquiry being as follows, did you ever have or do you now have membership in or support any political party or organization which advocates the overthrow of our constitutional form of state government in the united states? to which question, there is written the word, no. >> i signed a lot of form at that time, and this one looks like one of the many i did sign. that's my signature. >> have you any relatives in russia? >> i wouldn't know. my father was born in russia, so was my mother or maybe that was po land. i'm not sure. >> do you have any knowledge there's a communist movement in hollywood? >> that goes to the general question where i said i must not answer in order not to incriminate myself. >> you leave me at least with the impression that you have been and still are a member of the common must party. you leave me with the impression that you are a very dangerous citizen. >> well, i take the fifth amendment in order to not incriminate myself, i'm not affirming or denying anything. i'm doing that because the context of the thing today. i'm not trying to leave that implication of anything. the founding fathers wrote that the fifth amendment for this type of interrogation. >> if the united states should be invaded by the soviet eun would you bear arms to defend the u.s.? >> you know i taught about that for a very long deep time about that. because it's been asked many times of other people appear by this committee. i don't think by committing ourselves to a war we can get peace. i do not think that is the way to get peace. >> will you bear arms for your country in case of an attack by an aggressor? >> i have in that sense that when i was asked to volunteer, they said will you volunteer for a duty that may be dangerous? i didn't want to but i did. >> if you received orders today to serve in korea, what would be your answer? >> i would naturally go. i said to you that i would obey the laws and i have and will do so in the future, but when you come to the question of war and peace today, that is another question, because that is a question in a sense of fighting for what you believe is correct. i believe if we prepare for war consistently we'd surely have it. and if only peace we'll have is the peace of apes and tigers. >> peace by domination? >> there will be no domination after the next war, sir. there will be ruin. >> we summon gail. >> usually -- when gail sunder guard one the best supporting actress awardism her accepting speech on live radio she spoke out about the spanish civil war. here to read her testimony is actress iliana douglas, grand daughter of oscar winner melvin douglas and congresswoman helalh gay began douglas. she was islanded as the pink lady, who was pung down to her underwear. welcome iliana douglas. >> i couldn't bear to be tired when i look out and see marsha hunt here. very quickly i just want to say my grandfather is melvin douglas and my grandmother is helen douglas. the reason he said she was pink down to her underwear is that he printed her voting record dhrp predominantly sort of liberal vote as he depicted them and printed them on ping paper. one of the votes she voted for, she was only one of a handful of congress people to vote against sending the hollywood ten to prison. and, so for that when chef running for senate he said she was pink right down to her underwear. and let me tell you something, i am too. i liked to mention that. the other brief thing i wanted to say about gail sunder guard she was my father's god mother. my grandfather started a theater company back in madison, wisconsin and he was in the group with gail sunder guard and ralph bellamy and it was in that group she met her husband beiberman. unfortunately because she was married to howard beiber man that's how she ended up sadly becoming blacklisted. she was known back in the day as a pillow red, meaning simply because you were married to someone you could be considered a communist. and now, you may go. sure. >> thank you. are you familiar with an organization called the national counsel of american soviet friendship? >> mr. chairman 2010 i must refer to your -- again i must refer to your long list of organizations and refuse to answer that question on the basis previously stated. may i say something while we are waiting here about the business of suddenly banding every progressive in our country, organizations which have done wonderful and fine work in the past, branding them as sub versive. this i find shocking and very saddening. >> are you a member of the communist party? >> i refuse to answer that question for the reasons previously stated. >> do you believe a committee of congress should investigate subversive activities or the secure of our country? >> mr. congressman, i believe a committee of congress could and should do investigating work. i do feel that this committee tip is doing incriminating work much more than investigating work. and that is the reason i wish to object. >> you would like to go over some of our files would you? >> miss sunder guard the records show that you serve as sponsor for congressional conference for world peace which was held in new york city, correct. >> it was a very odd thing that whether every the word peace comes up people begin to tremble. i must refuse to answer that we for reasons previously stated. i wonder if i can interpoe late here i am the wife of herbert beiberman. he was one of hollywood ten who recently come out of prison for defending the first amendment in this committee. in my statement i have said in 1937 -- may i go on? >> no. >> no, i just wanted that in the record. bernard was subpoenaed to appear in l.a. in 1972, he was never called to testify. he wrote and/or produced the day of the trip pets, 55 days at peeking and earth versus the flaying saucers. where the u.s. attack washington. its often said politics may strange bedfellows. ellen recalls the life of her father. >> oh, hello. it's been a long evening hasn't it? but i think it's been very interesting to hear other people's stories and to sort of know how we've all got the same history and yet -- >> louder. >> sorry. we've all got the same history and yet very different. as bernie recounts in his memoir "hollywood exile" he wrote under the penman of raymond t. marcus who was a good friend of his. i grew up with the marcus children and now we're all scattered. dad wrote "1957 hail cats of the navy" for columbian pictures. apparently i answered the phone when charley sneer called one time and went chirping to ber near. mr. sneer is on the phone. anyway, he was delighted because he was writing scenes for ronnie and nancy davis. reagan had been cast in this film. it would turn out to be the only film which they appeared together. at the time, everyone in hollywood n hollywood knew he played a major role in creating and enforcing the blacklist. reagan became president of preactor skills and it was not yet known that reagan -- supplied -- i'm missing something here but he supplied names to -- something i didn't get. yeah, estimated names of activists and political suspects to the fbi. hell cats was about the war in the pacific. in the final reckless action sequence i wrote the sub captain played by reagan had to perform a solo dive down in the treacherous waters if the sea of japan to free some cables following the propeller and this rescued the storms and the crew from death charges. for years after this friends chaptered me i had let ronnie come up from the depths of the sea and survived petitioner bigger and meaner projects. hell cats also gave me the opportunity to write a speech. i wondered how he would feel knowing that a comedy has written the words he spoke, later when reagan inhabited the white house. clips of film were repeatedly played on television. i fantasized by contacting reagan informing him that i was the uncredited blacklisted screen writer who had written one of his better roles and continue conveniently believed i was entitled to an invitation to one of the white house dinners. >> thank you. thank you. if you've read and appeared and have not sign add release make sure you see kenny on your way out. don't try to sneak out the side door because we got c-span here and we want to make sure we show this. if you've been up here and haven't left please sign a release. and he's starting a list of his own if you want to get in touch with the families so get on that list. screen writer was among -- lawrence of arabia and 1954s independently made "salt of the earth." here to read michael wilson's acceptance speech is his daughter beka wilson. >> i don't want to dwell on the past but for a few moments to speak of the future. and i address my remarks particularly to you younger men and women who'd perhaps not established yourself in this industry at the time of the great witch hunt. i fear that less you remember this dark epic and understand it you play be doomed to replay it. not with the same characters of course and on the same issue, i foresee a day coming in your lifetime if not mine, when a new criminal ca crises of believe will -- when chilling decisions affecting our culture will be made in the boardrooms of conglomerates and networks. when the powers of the programmers and the sensors will be expanded. and when extraordinary pressures will be put on writers in the mass media to conform to administration policy on the key issues of the time. if this scenario should come to pass, i trust that you younger men and women will shelter the mavericks and the centers and your ranks and protect the right to work. the guild will have the need of the rebels if it's to survive as a union of free writers. the nation will have need of them if it is to survivor as an open society. singer athlete, torn, actor paul ropes had no idea the blacklisting existed. he may be best known for his signature song, old man river. he used his celebrity to advance the cost of union, loyal list. around 1949 he expressed doubts that the plaque blacks will perform -- annual earnings dropped from 100,000 to 2,000. largely prevented from performing here ropes was still in big demand but the u.s. government revoked rope's passport in 1950. his cds and dvds are for sale in the lobby and aclu's hector returns as congressman sure. >> the morning the committee resumes, hearing on the vital issue of more than passports as travel documents in furtherance of the communist conspiracy. >> plying for this passport in july of 1954 were you requested to commit a noncommunist affidavit. >> we had a long discussion with my counsel who is in the room, mr. bow dean what the state about about juch just such an affidavit. i was very precise not only in the application but with the state department. under no conditions will i sign such an affidavit. that is a complete contradiction of the rights of american citizens. >> did you comply with the requests? >> i certainly did not and will not. >> are you now a member of the community insist party? >> please please please. >> please answer mr. ropeson. >> what is the communist party what document by that? >> i direct that you ask the witness to answer the question. >> what document by the community insist party? as far as i know it's a leader party like the republican and democratic party. do you mind the parties who have sacrificed for my people and all the american and workers they that they can live in dig any? >> are you now a member of the communist party? >> would you like to come to the ballot box and see when i vote. i vote the fifth amendment. >> do you comprehend that you told this member truthfully? >> i would like to not desire to do anything it is none of your business what i do. and forget it. >> you are directed to answer the question. >> gentlemen, in first place where ever i have been in the world, the first too die in the struggling against fascism with a communist and i laid many leaves upon the graves of communist it is not criminal. and the fifth amendment has nothing to do with criminality. >> mr. chairman this is not a laughing matter. >> it is a laughing matter to me. this is completely nonsense. you are the authors of bills that are beginning to keep out people out of the country. >> no only your kind. >> colored people like myself. >> we're trying to make it easier to get rid of your kind too? >> you don't want any colored people to come in? >> proceed. >> can i say the reason item here today is i should not be allowed to travel because i have struggled for years for the independence of people of africa. for many years i have also labored and i can say modestly my name is very much honored all over africa and my struggle for independence. this is the kind of independence like in indonesia. in the we are double talking then he's efforts in the interest of africa would be in the same context. the orr reason i'm here today is that when i am abroad i speak out about the injustices of the knee grow people of the land. this is why i am here, this is the basis. i am being tried for fighting for the rights of me people who are still second class citizens in this united states of america. i stand here sfrug lg for the right of my people to be full citizens of this country and they are not. they are not in mississippi, montgomery, alabama, washington, they are nowhere. and that is why i am here today. you want to shut up every me grow who has the courage to stand up for rights of his people and workers. i have been on many a picket line for steal worker too and that's why i'm here today. listen to me, i said it was unthinkable to me that any people would take up arms in the name of an eastland to go against anybody. gentlemen, i still say that. this u.s. government should go down to mississippi and protect my people, that's what should happen. in russia, i felt for the first time like a full human being. no colored prejds like i see in mississippi or washington. it was the first time i'd felt like a human being. where i did not feel the pressure of color as i feel it in this committee today. >> why do you not stay in russia? >> because my father was a slave and my people died to build this country and i'm going to say to the stay here and have a part of it just like you. and no fascist minded people will drive me from it, is that clear. i am for peace with the soviet union and china and i'm not for peace with nazi germans. i am for peace with different people. >> you are here because you are promoting the communist cause. >> i'm here because i'm oh posing the neofascist cause like i see in these committees. and jefferson could be sitting here, fredrick douglas could be sitting here and eugene debs could be sitting here. and you gentlemen along with the alien acts. you are the non-patriots and the non-americans and you ought to be ashamed of yourself. >> order order. i've endured all of this i can. >> can i read my statement? >> no you cannot read it the meeting aeuropeaned. >> this is what i say, black lives matter gentlemen. >> oh wow. that was really something. the state department didn't issue paul robberson a passport for another two years. not until 1958. tonight we noted how people who weren't themselves plaqblacklis as well as lee grant, john chrome well, rose to do the right thing and defend those being persecuted. we do not mean to minimize the suffering and existence of those who refused to be informants when the witch hunters called them to testify. we horn the men and women who when the chips were down stood up for bullied, hounded and oppressed. these brave people often put themselves in harm's way too. similarlily nowadays when we see members of groups under attack, immigrants, refugees, religious and ethic minorities, the free press we have to join them in acts of resistance, not only because it's the right thing to do, but because when you toen stand up whether you witness injustice, if you don't want up when you witness injustice next time they may come for you. but nobody may be left to defend you. for those who want to stand up today, two events are happening next weekend, the very first left force kor rum taking place from november 3rd through the 5th. you've heard from our cosponsors tonight, dick and sharon, they ron the hollywood and l.a. progressive. i'm sure you're already on the list. and refuse fascism is launching nationwide protest on november 4th to drive the trump/pence regime from office to meet on the amendment square. >> we end with a reminder of one of the american journalism finest moments. in 1954 edwin challenged snort joe mccarthy in his cvs program, see it now. the act largely pursued the entertainment industries using slurs, maccar think and his subcommittee focused on a communist version in the federal government and u.s. army. although mccarthy did call some artists to testify. brooklyn schoolteacher richard ram pel took a knee in the 1950s. the civil libertarian was impressed attacking mccarthy on television was marked the beginning of the end of mccarthy's rein. mccarthy went on to name his only son after the legendary newsman. friendsy said, you're the only journalist in america named after ed. we must never forget that mccarthy's chief counsel, roy cone went on to become donald trump's attorney. here to read his name's sake is the hollywood's plaque list co- -- blacklist co-oregoners i had ram bell. -- ed ram pel. >> it is necessary too investigate before legislating. the line between investigating and persecuting is a very fine one and a junior senator from wisconsin has stepped over it repeat th repeatedly. his primary achievement has been in refusing the public mind, as between the internal and the external threats of communism, we must not confuse descent with disloyalty. we must remember always that accusation is not proof, mr. trump. and that convictions fends upon evidence -- depends upon evidence and due process of law. we will not walk in fear one of another. we will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine and remember that we are not descended from fearful men and women. not from men and women who fear to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular. this is no time for men who oh pose senator mccarthy's methods to keep silent. we can deny our heritage and our history but we cannot escape responsibility for the result. there is no way for a citizen of a republic to act katie his responsibilities. as a nation we have come into our full inheritance at a tender age. we proclaim ours, as indeed we are the defenders of freedom, where ever it continues to exist in the world. but, we cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. the actions of the junior senator from wisconsin have caused alarm and dismay amongst our allies abroad and given considerable comfort to our enemies. and whose fault is that? not really his. he didn't create this situation of fear, he merely exploited it and rather successfully. ca ka shus was right, the fault dear brew tis was not in our fall but in ourselves. good night and good luck. >> thank you everybody. we have to be out of here in less than four minutes. no joke, so i want everyone to stand up with ed. let's thank ed and let's all say on the count of three we are spart cuss. one, two, three, we are spart cuss. afterpart at your own expense at kanters everybody. we're all going there. they're still open. thanksgiving day on -- instance thanksgiving day . >> announcer: thanksgiving day on -- jim kerry receiving a lifetime achievement award. 2:45 p.m. david brooks and ronald white express character. at 2:30 p.m. eastern, jonathan on the heavy weight champion of the world, muhammad ali. at 4:50 p.m. eric erickson on his book, before you wake. on american history t.v. on c-span3, at 9:50 a.m. eastern on the presidency, the life and times of teddy roosevelt. at 11:00 a.m. on lectures and history. then at 2:55 p.m. eastern, from a national archives a look at the first motion picture units world war ii films. thanksgiving day on the c-span networks. c-span where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. >> announcer: now a 1952 interview with senator joseph mccarthy known for his alleged investigations. he was a guest on longines cone scope, a program which originally aired on cbs. >> announcer: it's time for the longines co longines cone skoeps, brought to you every monday, wednesday and friday. a presentation of the lon ji

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