Award winning legal journalist and New York Times best selling author, nancy grace. Nancy and i will be discussing her practical and invaluable book dont be a victim, fighting back against americas crime wave. Thats just ahead. This is a lifesaving book that empowers you to stay safe in the face of daily dangers. Its packed with practical advice, priceless prevention tips and with christmas and hanukkah just around the corner buy copies for everyone on your list, everyone that you care about. To purchase nancys book check your local jccs websites for their independent book sellers, the book available from the official book seller of the mjcc and the new national jcc consortium, a cappella looks. Please use the q a feature at the bottom of your screen as well try to read as many of them as possible, a little bit later in the hour. We respectfully request that you please dont put your questions in the chat because, well, i wont be looking there. I dont even know how to look there. So, now that we dont waste a single minute, lets get tonight another event rolling with a little bit about our special guest. Nancy grace is an awardwinning legal journalist, victims rights advocate and now and four times over a New York Times best selling author of four books. She hosted the daily crime stories which nancy grace on sirius xm and appears regularly on abcs 20 20 and nightline and daily mail tv. Thats the itch of the iceberg. Well talk but her other tv projects a little bit later as well. She is the founder and publisher of crime online. Com, digital platform that investigates breaking crime news, highlights missing people, trying to help solve unsolved homicides, a lot of information these days on dna and how its used to solve crimes and unless you have been living under a proverbial rock for decades youre aware that nancy was the force hint hlns top rate program for many years, nancy grace. Please welcome our very special guest and a person im proud to call both a colleague and friend nancy grace. Hi, john. Ank you so much eryone for inviting me. This is a big thrl for me. Thank you. Wellave a lot of fun. Nancy, i wanto make certain we do leave plenty of time to discuss this amazing book, but i feel we need to lay some groundwork, sort of set the scene. One thing ive learned but you during our three years working together is you like to tl a story the way i do. Chronologically. Ats one of the man philosophies that w share. So i would love it if you could take us back take us us down to middle georgia and bk to your growing up years. Its really ironic that you land in a career centered around crime because thats a word you really didnt hear very often, if at all, when you were growing u john youre right. I grew up in unincorporated bibb county on a red dirt road. The bookmobile from the library would come out to serve the needy children and park directly in front of our house, and i love the become mobile, not only could i read mostly in the summer all day, butt had air conditioning and i knew nothing but aironditioning, and so i thought it was just wonderful that they would park worth the price of admission. Parked directly in front of our house soe good out and get to bring books and then come back, maybe two or three weeks later when we would return those and get new ones and grew up as far as the eye could see, there were pine trees and soybean fies, one of our favorite things to do was to go to a deep fas Running Stream where somebody tied a rope to a tree limb, and youd run as faa as you could holding o swing out way over the water, and if you were any good at all, i guess it wasatural instinct you would startun thing moment you came back and hit. Thats how i grew up. We could ride our bikes or play until it got dark, and i would come home t the church bells in the steeple, singing todd will take care of you; we didnt know pout a world of hate and crime, john. I didnt kno anything about it. I was studying shakespeare and literature to public a sharks peeran lilt tour professor, and just before my wedding to my fiancee, he was murdered. And he was shot five times in the neck, the fac and the head, and his world ended, my world exploded, family w town into grief, and it was sh dark time for me. I really cant dont have the words to desibe it. But i didnt want to live at all. Lost down to abo 89 pounds. I couldnt eat. My mher had to stop the clocks in our home because i couldnt std to hearhe ticking. Wh i went backo school, finally, they let me back in. My undergrad at merce i had to go going back toaw school to help oth crime victims and thats what i did. Because up until that point you were headed toward teaching literature, specifically shakespeare. Yes, thats all i wanted to. Do im adjusting my screen as we talk. They did not teach zoom or anything lik it in law school. Thats wha happened if you see my ke. Thats what happened. Of course you never, ever get over Something Like you expericed with the loss of keith. However, when you did begin to owly sort of assessing wt was next i you life, h did you start on the path that eventually brought y to atlanta . Well, also i said i dropped out of school, and i never had flown on a plane before. Parents sent me to live with my sister in philadelphia. She at the time was a professor at the Wharton School teaching there, and stayed with her, and that was really when it hit me. I saw all the students going back to schl and crowding into th book store there at wharton, and knew i would g back and try to get into law school. Once i got through undergrad with my shakespearean lilt tour degree literature degree. I had one recommendation to get into law school. My sunday school teacher. Host really. I didn even know what i was doing. For pete sake, when i got into undergrad i filled out my application with a pencil. I didnt know anything. Okay . Even to write with a black pen or type it. At least you could change your mind with a pencil. Dont discount ms janet hnson who was my recommendation. She read us on sunday school bird life and thats where rst heard the word hypocrisy and not like ago birds because that it had differ colored letteres. Her letter got me into law school and im reading bird, life and wings to my children eave night. Really . Yes. Go into law school and i cooperate get into the das office becaused ha no experience so is was a clerk to a federal judge and then i worked i the anti the conmer trade mission and i finally made it in, final live finally made it in, and i applied in philadelphia and atlanta and one ofhe boroughs in new york. I got into atlanta. I wanted a high level of crime. Only wanted to practice fighting violent crime. Hey was not interested in slip and falls, making money at a private law firm. Didnt care about billable hours. I did not wt to chase ambulances all i wanted and want is to put e bad guys behind bars. It worked. For the nexten years in inner city atlanta, thats all i did. I had the good fortune of havg the single oldest trial judge in Fulton County, i wasn hills courtroom, luther albertson, why was that such a blessing . He was so old, he wasnt par of the mandatory retirement act. He was already in as a justice [laughter] this is how it worked to my benefit. He was hell pt on proving he was fit to be on the bench so nted to keep the lowest jail count in the courthouse. That means you have the fewest you have to have 1 0 flowns a felonies a week in urtroom. You wanted to have the least number of people in jail waiting for you, the judge to resolve their case. If you had a high jail cnt you were shunned. It mea you were lazy, werent trying cases, pleing cases. We kept the lowest jail cnt which means i was on trial every other week. Ry often id have three trials going at once. Id start off with the most serious one, a homicide. Once i struck that jury and trd that case that jury would go out and the next panel would come in. Typically a less cplicated case. Like a robbery. Let just pretend. Wons that juror wen out another one cam in and i would d a dope case, throwdown to multiple injures at the same time. Ats how i tried to many cases thanks to judge albertson. Lets keep the lights on in the courthouse, miss grace, he would say, and we did. Do you remember the first time that you ce facetoface with a really serious cme, one that justook yr breath away after yo experience with keith buwhile you were there in atlanta. Do you remember the first tom you were just really the first time you were really blown back by a crime . Oh, john, there are s many. I remember the first time i ever went wept in a courtroom. I was a witness in keiths murder trial and i did not see the murder but he had been at our home before he left for work that monday morning in aths he was working on a construction crew in the summer and but a to finishing myth geology teague and he left at lunchtime toet everyone soft drinks when he came back, a guy that had been fired i think before keith came on to work thatummer, was waitinand just unloaded at the company truck. Thats how he was killed. When i went in the courtroom, i remember testifying, everythg was so quiet. Could hear my boots on the floor. Like a marble floor. And i walked by the states table, john, and i saw for the first time keiths bloody dep jim shirt the had been weang that morning when he left our home and i kept walking, and i ssed the defendants table, and i methe defendants eyes as he immediately looked down, and all it took i decide didnt realize what they were, and they looked down. They couldnt even lk at me. And i turned and walked out of the courtroom. That was the first time id ever been in a courthouse even. I the cases sometimes, john, theyre so distinct in my mind. Iemember prosecuting child lestation cases with children as young as three and five, whe the mother would side with the boyfriend or theusband, and always happened that way. Horrible abuse on children. Murders over five dollar drug debt. I remember miss leola her s was murdered over a drug dt. She was the finest lady. I remember going to her home, and she had beautul living room, everything w white. White carpet,hite sofa, white everything, and she had i covered in plastic. And i went and i sat down on the sofa and i spoke to her and she became one of my dearest friend god rest her soul, and i remember trying that case, and when she wanted to sit in the courtroom, and i remember when i put the medical examiner on the stand and he was describing her son dying, i lookedack because i normally send the family out. She just kept knitting and looked at me and she nodded and she just looked dn and kt knitting. When i wasiving the closing statement i looked over at her she was knitting and smiled at me and nodded, and i except going. I remember so many cases. One no one case is more impoant than the next. When d tv come into the picture . Oh. Thats a funny story. How did this happen . Oh, i remember. Exactly. So, every once in a while we uld get what we call Silk Stocking defense lawyer. That means they made money and typically this is a guy from king and spalding, the was the biggest law firm in the city of atlanta, all across the country and i remember working the arraignment calendar, 150 w felonies, and in comes a silk his suits are nicend tailored and fancy italian shoes, and not a regular, not one of the usual courthouse hacks. And he came out and he said, im fred cogfer from king and spalling and im represent youreepresenting a killer . I looked down it and was presentencing, the case had been detroit a long time ago and he he had it probono, some judge say signed it to king and spalling. Hi had been through the appellate and imhe invited me to their alarm for a christmas party. I dont usually frat concern nice with defendant attorneys but i went to the christmas party, and while i w there i met a producer from cnn and somebody said you should have nancy on, she tries cases all the time. I didnt really put much stock in it buture enough i end up guessing on some afternoon show and would literally run in heels back to the courthouse. Thats how it started. Then court tv found out about one of my cases oh, john, serial rape case. And they said too you mindf we have camer in the courtroom and i said hell no. I gave up cursing o tried to said these ladies dont want to be on tv. One of them was standing 10 or feet every from me, the. And said wait a minute, we didnt do anything wrong. Were not ashamedded. Should be ashamed. Well it. D i went, oh, okay. Excuse me. Well do it. And they covered that and tn a murder case, i was totally oblivious of the camera, caught me hitching up my pantihose self times. Thats not approximate thats not pretty. Thats how it hapned. And then one day i was invited to sit on a panel of socalled experts which means out of town lawyers in new york, and i remember i had a funny feeling when i got the invitation and i thought, im going to go, and i went and i for toes to usually sad between the late great Johnny Cochran and an excellent trial lawyer who straight off the William Kennedy smith debacle, roy black. We got a huge fight. And they said, hey, want to do a he say she say show . I said no, i have serial rape case to try next wee then my elected District Attorney w was like a grandfather to me, john, retired, and i called them back and went, hey, youll know that job, ill take it. And i moved to new york with two xes of clothes, curling iron and 300 can. I bought three it was. Three room, one in each room so i wouldnt miss the news. Sow. I slept on the mattress on a floor but i had tv so i would always know what was happening and not be incorrected on the air. Do you remember the day when you finally felt at home and thought, this is where im supposed to b when it came to talking about crime on tv . I felt that way the first time i tried a jury case. Really. Yeah. It was felt like bird out of a cage. I would never raise my hand, ever. Really. I had a completely personality before keiths murder but i dont remember that girl a all. Once in a while i have kindf a remembrance but not really. Not too much. But when i tried that case and, john, it was shoplifting. This poor little guy so pale, shorter than me even, had gone tohe kmart over used to be a kmart on piedmont. Host at lynnburg. Bill the zestos, and he kit off a display, stuck it in at the crop of his pants then he walked around and folded it up in a rug, and then went all the way up to the front and then chickened out and left it. Well, the Security Guard at kmart couldnt wait to throw him on the aspha and drag him back in and put them to jail. My first case, attempt shop lifting. I told to hold the jury one you good to therocery store do you put the eggs down your punts . Of course not. I begged the people say, straight probation. They wouldnt do it. And this is the guy had so many drug arrests, i begged his wife, take probation. I just didnt want him to go to jail for this, but any infraction whatever revoked his probation so had t go to trial. That was the d, the weekhat the air conditioner Fulton County hours. Thought i had to dress le a mam. Had on a blue suit, shirt up to here with a fake right here, and by the time it was over my shirt w off, my hair was ove he, the bun out, but shirt was unkicked a had on black eye laner mascara. I said im going to pass out. T a conviction. Thats the first time i knew thats where i was supposed to be. One of the things that i truly admire about you ishe way tt you alws keepamily first, in fact its wha led your decision to depart hln and take off in other directions. Although we will tk pout the a little bit im sure in the minutes ahead, i want to make sure that we do include husband and the twins. Whats the latest with david john david and lucy. Do you know theyre 12. Impossible. I hate it and love it. Thenm so proud of them. They are my whole world. I cant wait toake them up in the morning, and lucy declared herself aegetarian. Really. Which mean is have toake two meals. And i know more than you would ever want to know but impossible meat. And she is wonderful. My son is they make all as. This certainly do not get that from mr. Mother. They love school. They just played in a church choir cass citizen nets, she plays they clarinet and piano and he plays the piano and sack. Sa your sweet mom lives with you, oh, well, shes 20pound of tiger meat. When my dad went to hven she moved in wh me, between her and lucy guinea pigs dont have ance, we have a rescue dog and a rescue cat and she rescues guinea pigs. I have 20 clean their poop. When youre having your latte im shoveling guinea poop. My husband is still alive. People say why werent your be in pictures . Because hes taking the pictures. Right. Lets finally get to the meat of the hour. The tit ofhe book is honestly everything you need to know about what is inside. The subtitle, fogging bk against americas crime wave. Thats not jus a throwaway, its key because i have heard you sayn anumber of occasion including this past week during the recording of a program you didnt realize you were a victim when keith was murdered. And thats what a lot of crime victims families dont real use, they are crime victims as well. Yeah. We were talking pout i know exactly what rochester is referring to. And that would be the Scott Peterson deathenalty sentence reversal bed on the fact that so of the jurors were not questioned individually during voir dire which is french to speak the truth. One juror that made it on, juror number 7, rember he nicknamed her straw perishort cake but all she had butiful red hair on the comic person character that has this red hair, cute little creature. Anyway, wn asked have ever been a vtim of a crime she said. No well, in fact she had tro, restraining order taken out against her boyfriends exgirlfriend who was harassing her,nd the reality is that the woman was prosecuted, but i wonder sometimes if ss to not nsider herself a crime victim. Crime victims families that go a lifetime looking for justice are crime victims. Crime is forever changed their lives, john, for instance, you talk put john david and ley. Its was over 20 years of grief and mourning before i could consider remarrying. And because i mourned that long and would basically sabotage every relationship because i didnt want that. All i wanted to do was put bad guys away. I waited so long, by the time i married, my dear husband david, and gave birth to the twins, lucylmost died because im an older mom, because i couldnt ing i was two hours late to my own wedding, john, because i was convinced, im going to jin david somehow. Some horrible thing would happen to him. And i dont want other crime victims to grieve the way i did for s long, because the repercussions go on. So when i raised the children, largel affected by what happened to keith. I went to counseling aut them. The book can read like literature, but it can also be a reference guide f whenever you find yourself in life, whatever you might be pnning to do maybe its a trip, maybe its joining a gym, and you wan to be safe going to exercise and you give tse great stories, theyre tragic. Theyre not stori