Cable Television Company as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. Host representative Yvette Clarke is a democrat from new york. She is vice chair of the energy and Commerce Committee and is also cochair of the smart cities caucus. She is our guest this week on the communicators. Congresswoman clark, thank you for being here to be too be with you, peter. Host what is the smart city caucus and how you envision smart city . Guest we decided to establish a bipartisan smart city caucus originally darrell [inaudible] was my chair and it is now congresswoman from indiana. We knew that already technology is a major part of our lives. Its a utility we can use to make sure that we are economically feasible going into the future. That we are efficient in our use of energy and it enables socie society, i think, to be far more productive then our 20th century industrial age. We were looking at the fact that so much of what already exists in society is connected and what a smart city caucus does is it looks at four different areas of how communities are connected. One is connectivity, the other principal being sustainability. The other being mobility and then the workforce. How all of those components Work Together to make sure that in the 21st century our Civil Society is given the opportunity to reach its full potential utilizing the technological advantages or advances we have had in this age. Host you refer to it as a utility. Do you see it as a utility like plumbing and electricity and streets and things like that . Guest it is something we use but its more of an infrastructure. I think for many we look at particularly communities that are already wired broadband has been deployed. Ways where we can maximize on that structure to again help build a better quality of life for our citizenry. When we talk about smart city caucus i always say flash for our communities. This can be applied in suburban and rural areas, provided we have the appropriate infrastructure built out in those areas. Host do you see congress having a role when it comes to funding . Guest i think we do. I think we can incentivize a partnership with the private sector, many of which already have a lot of the infrastructure buildout in different parts of the country but there are gaps. In order for us to be fully integrated and fully utilizing and maximizing technology in all of its permutations it is important that we partner in incentivize private sector engagement. Host before we introduce our guest reporter, one final question on this. What about your district in brooklyn . Do you consider it a smart city . Guest absolutely. We are at the very beginning of building out a smart city. We were fortunate very early on to convert our old telephone booths infrastructure into wifi kiosks. They are strategically located across the city of new york. That in and of itself provides a means of communicating that sets out a predicate for what can be done with sensor technology, how we can regulate our lighting system and there is so much that can be done just from that platform alone. We are looking at how we can integrate into the use of that Energy Source that will be a sustainable so there have been some entrepreneurs who have talked about how we can connect solar to the use of those kiosks as well and so it really has been a footprint in the city of new york that gives us, i believe, the great edge in terms of really integrating all our needs into a smart city. Host joining us here at the table is joe marx, cybersecurity reporter for the washington post. Thank you, peter. Are we in smart cities competition with china and how are we doing . Guest i think we are in a competition with ourselves. I think that china has done far more investments and they are statesponsored so its a lot easier when you got one guy making all the decisions. Here we have the states and we still have a lot of work to be done in terms of National Infrastructure and so to a certain extent, i believe we are behind in terms of the buildout. Do we have the knowhow and the ability . Yes, we do. Do we have the technology and the ability to roll it out . Yes, we do but we have to get the will to do so. There have been of stories recently about cities not being capable of protecting the data they already have, attacks in baltimore and atlanta and other places. Should we be concerned about cities gathering orders of magnitude more data, some about citizens . Guest we have to build up capacity because any vulnerable link in the United States is an attack on all of us. Notwithstanding the fact that they are are certain parts of the country that have far more of a robust cybersecurity protocol and an eight week link creates a portal through which anyone can invade, whether its the pentagon or your local municipality. Should congress be doing something to ensure there are better cybersecurity standards as these things are built out . Guest absolutely. We talked about cyber hygiene and we should not be retrofitting but that we should have it those securities baked into the technology that we are using so we have to continue to push for that and continue to be vigilant around that because you will say this is what we want to accomplish and then someone is looking for a shortcut. It is that shortcut that creates the vulnerability that makes us all vulnerable indian. Host congresswoman clarke, to follow up with joe asked you about this information and its potential for getting loose. Should cities have that kind of information about guest they will have to. That is the only way to address local concern. We should be mature enough at this stage of our development in the Technology Space to be able to protect peoples information and to be able to have the proper protocols in place to make sure that we are monitoring and making sure that no nefarious uses of personal data is happening in our city and state or foundation but we are not the area. No doubt about it. We are not there yet. We will need the assistance of a Cybersecurity Workforce and again that is part of the smart city goal is to establish a workforce that is committed and focused and welltrained and constantly learning what it is to protect data from infrastructure and everything that is needed to make sure that as we build the 21st century infrastructure we have the workforce commensurate with that. Do think congress is commensurate with it because obviously guest i made that joke. [laughter] there have been hearings . Zuckerberg questioning whether congress has the ability to legislate in this area and our inviting committees will be in charge of smart cities to collect more data about citizens and can we ensure that is being done responsibly . Guest i think we have an obligation to do so. Were not monolith in the legislator at all. You have a large bandwidth, if you will from younger folks who lived their lives through every usage of technology to some of the more seasoned members who had a fullblown spread we will not rely on the flip phone crowd to be able to set those protocols but we can and we do have the capability with members who have studied this and many who are very fluid and privacy issues and cybersecurity issues and we have a number of members who were in the cia and fbi and we have access to the information we need and to the technicians that can help us to craft what is important and then we have to create the type of protocols that grow with the rapid growth in technology protocols. I think were capable of doing it but we just have the will and the bipartisanship behind it. Smart cities as they have been implemented in china theres this hazy line between the use of data for Public Safety and surveillance. I know especially with facial recognition and policing. Youve been or expect concern about the way facial recognition is used in the United States and Public Housing and at the border and how do you ensure that you get the good stuff from these connections and on the bad stuff . Guest again, its all about how you regulate things and how you legislate things and how you create policies that are in keeping with the values we of our society. Law enforcement, i think, has a unique role in terms of the utilization of technology. It can be used for good or bad but the hope is that as we are becoming more enamored with the use of technology that those that would use it for bad would stand out as outliers. But the practice is these are this is how we will use the technology under these circumstances. A child is kidnapped. Now you can get footage that shoots from one location to the next location to the next location far quicker than the Human Capacity to send that information along. On the other hand, you dont want to have a situation where, you are babysitting a child and the information that could have come to a Police Officer doesnt and they dont recognize you and you end up with an incident that take someones life. Its all about how we use technology in a smart way and how we set the protocols and how we train the workforce to use it. Is there a concern though that technology is developing too fast for the lawmakers and regular leaders to keep up with this implications . Guest i think again it is who the regulators are, who the legislators are. There are, you know, so many folks who have already really delved into this space and are very apprised of what or how the technology is evolving and how it is being used and how to put guardrails around it. We need to access those folks and we need to move them to the floor so that that expertise is something that is treasured and that we maximize on. Host representative clarke, do you hear from people or do you have a fear of the socalled big brother syndrome . Guest i dont. I dont have a fear of it. I think it is important, however, we set up guardrails and that we recognize privacy as a very important part of this conversation around the use of technology and that we acknowledge it. The same way the folks in the e you have. They have set up protocols around managing data and weve yet to make that step here in the United States but as a matter of fact, i consider our nation to be the weakest link because we havent. Those conversations we are already having on the hill because its very, very important that we not make [inaudible] but that the wellbeing of Civil Society is at the core of what we are trying to accomplish. Host impeachment inquiry, election youre coming is they are political will to pass cybersecurity or privacy legislation . Guest i hope there is paired we have to do our job but how they passed over 252 cases of legislation already in this congress and they have gone over to the senate and they are languishing there. I think we can, you know, do all this at one time and the legislator is built that way so we have to many assignments, numbers working on various pieces of legislation and we can maximize our time but we need willing partners. The legislative body only works when both chambers are working. Unfortunately that is not the case are now. One of the biggest pieces of cybersecurity legislation members have tried to get through is the mandates on Election Security, including funding, that is largely been stuck in the senate. Leader mcconnell there has said 250 million toward Election Security with no mandates behind it and is that sufficient to protect 2020 . Guest it is not sufficient with the information we have gathered thus far about how their vulnerabilities and the challenges you have 15 different well, 15 odd different election systems because its governed at the state level. We have to do far more than say we allocate funding without restricting and without targeting its use for securing our election system at the state level. We have to look at each state what theyve been able to accomplish but what is important and we cant even agree at this age that everyone should have a paper trail. So, when you are at that stage we cant even agree that we should have a written record of people voting that weve got a long way to go. One thing he focused on in terms of Election Securitys deepest fakes. How concerned are you that this could be an issue in the 2020 election . These videos the look lifelike but are doctored. Guest its a threat to Society Overall because deep fakes are deeply fake. To the naked eye you cant really tell the difference so we know that in the last election there was a lot of meddling in social media. Imagine if the words that were put out to persuade people from voting came with a video depiction of it and it showed someone that is highly revered making a false statement or taking an action they did not actually take. It has indications beyond just, you know, beyond just the fictional depiction of something going on. It can psychologically create a real problem for americans. Its important that there is a disclaimer that indicates individuals that this is been tampered with or this has been altered or modified in this is for your entertainment and it should be a watermark of some sort so people can distinguish between what is real and what is not. Deep fakes can also be weapon eyes. The Biggest Issue has been in the revenge porn space. This is happening regularly. Basically creating in peoples lives havoc and it is ruined peoples reputations and where do you go to repair a reputation and i think its important we pass legislation and that is getting ahead of things because right now it is not widely distributed in the context of sort of the socially acceptable social media and its basically relegated to the margins right now and the dark web but at some point it can become very prevalent and its important that the market people know that these are deceptive uses of video and technology. Host is your deep fake accountability act have bipartisan support . Guest it does. Im hoping we can move it because i think when you talk about elections and trying to create a election that has integrity, once you move into sort of these video depictions that are deceptive you are now in a totally different space in trying to get back to a place where we understand truth as truth because it becomes more of a challenge for us. Host congresswoman clarke, your old vice chair of the energy and Commerce Committee. What is your take on Silicon Valley and the social Media Companies . Guest i think so, i dont want to grossly generalize but i would say that we have to build a much more cozier relationship with the American People. I think that many have been driven by being preeminent in their space and with that preeminence comes a certain level of arrogance and abuse and that is not in the best interest of the American People. I find that many of these firms are not reflective of the diversity of the people of our country and when you are talking about developing algorithms and a whole host of other things if you are only coming from one perspective you are baking into the system discrimination that, you know, will be very hard to unpack once it is baked into the system. You talked about finding the right advisors to help move toward a more connected, bigger data future, are there particular people or groups in and around the Tech Community you what to advise you on that . Guest everything from, you know, Energy Sector to the tech sector, these are to the Banking Sector these are industries that have, out of necessity, to protect their infrastructure whether it is banking or oil and gas or electricity grids and their we will find a lot of folks. Also within the Tech Industry they are building it so as they build it we should be having some level of discourse so we can understand what the imprecations are of what is being built and how it is deployed and what it means for Civil Society and then in academia there is a lot of young folks who are looking at the defense industry, looking at helping out countries and these are folks who have the wherewithal to advise and provide us with the level of intricacy we need, not only to look at what we had before right now, but where things are going in the future spinning. One thing thats compared to smart cities is the 5g wireless. Theyre supposed to be orders of magnitude faster and are you concerned about the security of 5g networks and is the Trump Administration doing enough to keep huawei and other companies out of their . Guest no, were not doing enough to keep huawei and other nefarious out of our networks but i believe that we have what it takes to be able to do so and it is interesting because ive even heard some of the folks in the Utility Space for the electric sector talking about 10g. We are at 5g now but there is already discussions about 10g. I have no idea and maybe you blink and everything disappears but i just dont know where we are going with that one but it is important that if we really build out a smart city that 5g is a utility we need to be able to access and maximize on. The problem is we have not fully deployed broadband yet. So, the Digital Divide is always a concern and an issue whether it is Rural Communities or what we call digital desert in urban communities the one thing we dont want to do is see any quality exacerbated because we are unable to figure out or crack the code around how we make 5g and broadband ubiquitous in the United States. That is one thing were looking at with the smart city, smart communities. Host congresswoman, we ask this of every member of congress who comes on this program would you own eight huawei phone yourself . Guest no, i wouldnt want because of the security guest im concerned about our lack of negotiation and our lack of intelligence a