Transcripts For CSPAN2 Brendan McNulty And Timothy McNulty T

Covid19 pandemic and Vanderbilt Universitys william shatner, professor of Infectious Diseases in Public Health policy. Join the conversation tonight at 8 00 pm eastern on cspan. I am tony clark, you are here, a special night for us, the book itself is perfect, and what we have a carter president ial library, talks about congress and the president and how they Work Together even when they dont necessarily agree on things. What president carter after congressman brooks and one of the things the president said is he was a new president , one congressman who disagreed with me, im the president of the united states, that is no big deal and found out that one congressman was jack brooks. President s Work Together and it is time that we hear that message about how they Work Together. We are especially pleased tonight to have congressman jack brookss son jeb, he has worked in the financial industry and all 5 companies for more than three decades. He started his career, on the International Securities in london. Currently the managing partner of pinewood trading fund and chairman of the Jack Brooks Foundation which provided the wonderful reception for us tonight. Please join me in welcoming and thanking jeb brooks. [applause] thank you for that kind introduction. We are grateful to you, thank you for your generosity in hosting us this evening. With events like this, im grateful my fathers example can continue to inspire people for years to come. Jack brooks devoted his life to this country. First as a marine and then serving his constituents as their representative serving his constituents long enough to serve alongside ten us president s but the best one, president jimmy carter. It is truly, truly an honor to share this biography with you, the meanest man in congress jack brooks and the making of an american century, jack brooks, on my own, i could never have accomplished as much as these two intrepid authors, the brooks family. It was a special debt of gratitude. The only people who know more about my dad than i do. Tonight is special in another way. We are very fortunate to have with us mister hendrik hertzberg, the chief speechwriter, editor of the new republic, staff writer for the new yorker, the needed voice of reason, he and the authors have key observations about chairman brookss career, thank you for being here this evening. [applause] as was just mentioned as many of you know, a foundation has been founded in my fathers name and here to tell you more, let me introduce my good friend, a man for all seasons and president of the new Jack Brooks Foundation, mister jon basanna. I am thrilled to be here. Neither of these would have happened if not for jeffs tenacity, passion, leadership and i thank him for that and recognize, thank you for your friendship. I am thrilled to announce the first item, the Jack Brooks Foundation is up and running, we are inspired and work to continue the legacy of hard work, nonpartisan approach to public policy. The intention of the foundation is to help as Many Americans as possible to reconnect with our Representative Government and im proud to be leading this effort. The Briscoe Center for American History at the university of texas in austins custodian for the project brooks congressional papers. Im very happy to announce a 1year effort to digitize and make available and searchable key legislation champions by chairman brooks. We have a lot of activity, invite you to stay in touch and would love to hear from you. Without further delay let me begin the conversation about my friend jack brooks, the meanest man in congress. Please lets get started. Thank you. [applause] thank you very much. Indirectly from our host, jimmy harder jimmy carter, when carter dedicated the jack brooks moment and i have nice things to say about jack brooks. He said i would like to pay particular tribute to the leadership role of chairman jack brooks, a formidable ally, he hates to lose and really does. We wouldnt have prevailed. I am deeply grateful to jack. A little bit later our authors will write more. One time in private company in georgia, to dinner companions including Curtis Whitney for the boston globe, this happens with an old friend of mine. Carter recalled how brooks had been the best anyone could have on capitol hill, a tough sonofabitch and a mean insider. Jack brooks, the american public, what jack brooks was, capitol hill under the District Of Columbia but jack brooks is the same as an elder and those who feel a little like you might have heard of him. The iconic photograph taken on november 20 second 1963, Jacqueline Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson among others but if you look at the picture over jackies Left Shoulder is jack brooks. I want to ask you two guys, a Newspaper Delivery boy to that airplane, what propelled him. He was a man of his generation. He went from a hardscrabble life whose father died when he was 12, paperboy to junior reporter for the beaumont enterprise, he learned, one of the early lessons he had was by doing social column he included all the names that was there, why did you do that . I knew the editor wouldnt take out any names and i got paid by that. That was an early lesson for him. To the university of texas in the late 30s, early 40s. He wanted to sign up for the marines. A marine recruiter came to campus, the editor of the Campus Student newspaper the daily texan . I believe it was. The recruiter said he was too scrawny, he would go to the army. He said no, go to the marines, he wanted to do a story in the paper. I dont know if i would get it in for the next few months. Maybe if i have that application i wouldnt be a problem. He was figuring out ways to negotiate. Then he did go to the marines, the South Pacific for 2 and a half years. Also began to learn to negotiate other things, his men needed dry boots because of the dampness of the jungle, they werent requisitions. A couple cases of whiskey in the boots that were supposed to be 50 boots with 2 in front of it, 250 pairs of boots. That kind of even though it may be wheeling and dealing started to prepare him for congress and the time in air force one, Jackie Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson he had been in congress for ten years. He was seasons. He learned at the foot of sam rayburn, in the process of getting legislation. The competition the jack brooks had, to be called mister president , jack brooks didnt seem to be that guy. Why was he yearning to be senator, the title he reveled in was mister chairman. The best representative for that district. He wanted to represent them at all. He made it at a young age. And he had other opportunities. In 1965 his dear friend johnson was president and he had no interest. He was 288 and the judiciary from 88 to 94. The preeminent arbiter of constitutional principle. Just how close he was still Lyndon Johnson. Not just as a political ally, but a deeply personal, and to drink and have fun. Tell us a little about the nature of the relationship that was so unique. All endemic president s found jack brooks and ally, someone who was there man in the house. With johnson that was the case. As well as any president ever has, what he needed behind the scenes, what he needed to get done. After great most of it, not all and johnson didnt do that, he is extending on his own principle. On air force one, back to washington, brooks went to his Vice President s home and the next week or two spending time, not only handling details but as a personal bulwark, saying you are the best man for this now and giving him encouragement. Listening to the tapes at the johnson library, it is amazing to listen to the two of them have this back and forth repartee that these are master politicians who know what they are talking about and other congressmen what they need, what they want to accomplish and how to trade and get their votes. For dozens and dozens of congressman to know exactly what their districts were like and what their future was. On november 20 second after the shooting happened, no one knew this was a communist plot, heightens not just anxiety but the trauma everyone was going through. When jack brooks got to the hospital they were surrounded by secret service, in the corner and his mobility was limited because he was president as soon as kevin passed away. They were not going to let him go anywhere but ultimately also very caring and compassionate and wanted Jackie Kennedy to have people, to go back to the operating room where tony was lying and he could go himself. He was in the room with kennedys body with connolly upstairs and after asked brooks go with lady bird to the airport, brooks recalled that in parkland to lovefield. And and they the big burly, and basically on top of things. And brooks seem to come into his own. During the johnson administration. There was an interesting balance, rhetorical balance between liberal goals, liberal ideas, not exactly conservative hardheaded rhetoric and approach. Tell us about how brooks helped give us the great society. He was a Texas Democrat and that was different. When he was fiscally conservative he came from a district that was strong on civil rights, strong on unions, Different Oil refineries that were on the border between texas and louisiana so he stood out from a lot of Texas Democrats. What was the question . This combination which was turns into something so creative. Liberal goals, liberal hoax, liberal had no other time, the excitement and benefits of new deal legislation taking its course, you had the war and new generation that was battle horde and hardened, there were these liberal principles but they were fired in battle. Only on the end. They were a new type of policymaker. Having johnson in the white house, it was a beneficial relationship. They had a job to do and they were valuable. Aside from getting along personally. Johnson was kind of lonely, not just welcoming brooks to the white house, they had other plans. They go to the white house, spent hundreds of hours together not just talking politics but enjoying life. Lady bird and Charlotte Brooks watched gunsmoke on tv, two couples that were getting together all the time. They enjoy each Others Company and there were questions of that and brooks, for a president always called the loneliest job, at least someone who isnt trying to get anything for his personal gain. Not only shied away from getting something for beaumont but after anything after himself. The lesson he learned from rayburn was to the press. That day had this board of education on the east side for republicans and democrats. Drinking a scotch together. They decided to switch that. But he learned that from rayburn. Rayburn is still speaker, it was a real we belong to texas. They steered the conversation and understood. The direction they stared at was a lot worse than what we now think of as what texas wants. Why was he so friendly to civil rights . Do you know what the composition of this district was . More than the rest of texas . You had so much industry in this Little Corner . Migrant workers coming from generations to that corner. He grew up in a different the district had traditional whites and a town in this district where the grand dragon of the ku klux klan lived in his district as well. You had a mix of people and political outlooks. Not only did he have to steer through that but really believe in civil rights, there was a time in response to brown versus board of education, 84 southern democrat congressman and 19 senators signed the southern manifesto, they continue segregation, that was the purpose of it. There were a few others, a dozen including jim right but also refused. Out of more than 100, 82 signed it and 19 senators. 11 original confederate states. Did he ever think about running for statewide office or National Office . It feels like you really didnt give that a thought. It didnt occur to him and so that consequently didnt go to california, didnt care about the press giving anything special after his national stature. He cared about his district in beaumont and around and he cared about the power of the chairmanship in washington. He got an endorsement from the New York Times in 1966. My policy about shipping to coastal waterway. How many president s did you say . People learned not to make the mistake that he worked under ten president s. The way this military experience needed a rulebook but he played by the real rulebook, and that was the way he became as effective a legislator as he did. He learns where he could bend the rules. As an officer they were staging to go back to guam at this point, supposed to sleep with his troops on the ship that was off the coast in okinawa but realized pretty quickly he could sleep on sure in the Officers Mess hall, a red cross nurse named kitty. If you woke up at a certain time off of the dock and the carbon netting out to where the troops were sleeping like a buccaneer. Some compatriots and fellow soldiers cheered him on. They had to consider longterm military career. He started too late. One of the joys of doing research for this book, we found a cache of letters he had written home to his family and friends, the letters he had received and sent back to his sister, and filed them all away. He was a bit of a pat rack, for 70 some years. We were talking about what age . This is 45, he thought he would only make captain and some people who were captain were behind the trajectory. To participate in that very relieved, they were in preparation for it and they talked about the casualty estimates for american troops at 60 and they were very anxious when truman dropped the bomb on hiroshima and nagasaki they were relieved that even came up in a meeting they had in beaumont during a campaign and brooks was very outspoken. He would tell you what he thought and when it came time for a question to come up he said should have dropped a third and his staff is staff. They looked at cameras that had just been turned on. In those letters he was the classic overachiever, friends with the student body class president s in secret society clubs and they all exchanged letters what they were going to do after school and he wanted to come back and get his license and run for congress. He had a role to play. We are still in the 60s but as time went on, the levers and machinations of congress, how he could use his position and he did it through the Government Operations committee and the judiciary and the time came, he was the person perfectly positioned for the next biggest thing that came up, the impeachment hearings. We will get to that in a second. Did he run first for the legislature . For two terms. His goal was to get Lamar College which was in beaumont to make it a statefunded university. He tried and tried and failed and the next term he came back and tried some more and told people what effect because all these students from that area had to go away to go to college to get a full degree. He cared about that, his constituents. He did it quote came, by a margin of one or 2 and then he decided he was going to take all these legislators on a trip down the river and down the river it was Lamar College. When it came up the river it was lamar university. A lot of people never heard of him because he did things that were important but did not get lots of publicity. For instance light bulbs. At that point i am not sure we are fast forwarding in congress. Why do lightbulbs burn out so much . There is no reason for them to. They can last much much longer. So he pushed have got legislation that made them change the way they make lightbulbs still have lights that stay on longer and dont cost as much. Actually yelling at an aid who was switching lightbulbs again, expletive, why do lightbulbs turn out so fast . The technology hadnt changed since the first lightbulb. The other thing was he also cared about other issues that were important to people like for instance computers, the whole notion of having computers, the government or ibm had a monopoly, paying, renting them, why arent we buying them so we dont have to keep paying the same rent over and over and he had the change so now there is more Free Enterprise with the computers. Didnt he do a lot to bring about the computer age . For a texas congressman, he took this report, the computing specialists had compiled, saying this was always a disparate system and they talk to each other and they dont we have downtime in the va and a surplus of work to do in Health Education and Welfare Department and he said we have a bill and if these Companies Want to sell or lease to the federal government they have to be interoperable. That was the term. Have it play on someone elses machine and vice versa and that set the stage and level playing ground for the modern it industry. At this point ibm had 70 lost its share and they told the federal government this is what we are going to sell you and how you are going to use it and how much we are going to charge. That is what a monopoly does. There is relevance to today in brookss life story and that is as a congressman he served on a panel that was impeach a federal judge. He had to learn the rules of impeachment. You can take the story from a. This is w o douglas, 1970, a federal judge who had accepted william o douglas, a great liberal Vanderbilt Universitys<\/a> william shatner, professor of Infectious Diseases<\/a> in Public Health<\/a> policy. Join the conversation tonight at 8 00 pm eastern on cspan. I am tony clark, you are here, a special night for us, the book itself is perfect, and what we have a carter president ial library, talks about congress and the president and how they Work Together<\/a> even when they dont necessarily agree on things. What president carter after congressman brooks and one of the things the president said is he was a new president , one congressman who disagreed with me, im the president of the united states, that is no big deal and found out that one congressman was jack brooks. President s Work Together<\/a> and it is time that we hear that message about how they Work Together<\/a>. We are especially pleased tonight to have congressman jack brookss son jeb, he has worked in the financial industry and all 5 companies for more than three decades. He started his career, on the International Securities<\/a> in london. Currently the managing partner of pinewood trading fund and chairman of the Jack Brooks Foundation<\/a> which provided the wonderful reception for us tonight. Please join me in welcoming and thanking jeb brooks. [applause] thank you for that kind introduction. We are grateful to you, thank you for your generosity in hosting us this evening. With events like this, im grateful my fathers example can continue to inspire people for years to come. Jack brooks devoted his life to this country. First as a marine and then serving his constituents as their representative serving his constituents long enough to serve alongside ten us president s but the best one, president jimmy carter. It is truly, truly an honor to share this biography with you, the meanest man in congress jack brooks and the making of an american century, jack brooks, on my own, i could never have accomplished as much as these two intrepid authors, the brooks family. It was a special debt of gratitude. The only people who know more about my dad than i do. Tonight is special in another way. We are very fortunate to have with us mister hendrik hertzberg, the chief speechwriter, editor of the new republic, staff writer for the new yorker, the needed voice of reason, he and the authors have key observations about chairman brookss career, thank you for being here this evening. [applause] as was just mentioned as many of you know, a foundation has been founded in my fathers name and here to tell you more, let me introduce my good friend, a man for all seasons and president of the new Jack Brooks Foundation<\/a>, mister jon basanna. I am thrilled to be here. Neither of these would have happened if not for jeffs tenacity, passion, leadership and i thank him for that and recognize, thank you for your friendship. I am thrilled to announce the first item, the Jack Brooks Foundation<\/a> is up and running, we are inspired and work to continue the legacy of hard work, nonpartisan approach to public policy. The intention of the foundation is to help as Many Americans<\/a> as possible to reconnect with our Representative Government<\/a> and im proud to be leading this effort. The Briscoe Center<\/a> for American History<\/a> at the university of texas in austins custodian for the project brooks congressional papers. Im very happy to announce a 1year effort to digitize and make available and searchable key legislation champions by chairman brooks. We have a lot of activity, invite you to stay in touch and would love to hear from you. Without further delay let me begin the conversation about my friend jack brooks, the meanest man in congress. Please lets get started. Thank you. [applause] thank you very much. Indirectly from our host, jimmy harder jimmy carter, when carter dedicated the jack brooks moment and i have nice things to say about jack brooks. He said i would like to pay particular tribute to the leadership role of chairman jack brooks, a formidable ally, he hates to lose and really does. We wouldnt have prevailed. I am deeply grateful to jack. A little bit later our authors will write more. One time in private company in georgia, to dinner companions including Curtis Whitney<\/a> for the boston globe, this happens with an old friend of mine. Carter recalled how brooks had been the best anyone could have on capitol hill, a tough sonofabitch and a mean insider. Jack brooks, the american public, what jack brooks was, capitol hill under the District Of Columbia<\/a> but jack brooks is the same as an elder and those who feel a little like you might have heard of him. The iconic photograph taken on november 20 second 1963, Jacqueline Kennedy<\/a> and Lyndon Johnson<\/a> among others but if you look at the picture over jackies Left Shoulder<\/a> is jack brooks. I want to ask you two guys, a Newspaper Delivery<\/a> boy to that airplane, what propelled him. He was a man of his generation. He went from a hardscrabble life whose father died when he was 12, paperboy to junior reporter for the beaumont enterprise, he learned, one of the early lessons he had was by doing social column he included all the names that was there, why did you do that . I knew the editor wouldnt take out any names and i got paid by that. That was an early lesson for him. To the university of texas in the late 30s, early 40s. He wanted to sign up for the marines. A marine recruiter came to campus, the editor of the Campus Student<\/a> newspaper the daily texan . I believe it was. The recruiter said he was too scrawny, he would go to the army. He said no, go to the marines, he wanted to do a story in the paper. I dont know if i would get it in for the next few months. Maybe if i have that application i wouldnt be a problem. He was figuring out ways to negotiate. Then he did go to the marines, the South Pacific<\/a> for 2 and a half years. Also began to learn to negotiate other things, his men needed dry boots because of the dampness of the jungle, they werent requisitions. A couple cases of whiskey in the boots that were supposed to be 50 boots with 2 in front of it, 250 pairs of boots. That kind of even though it may be wheeling and dealing started to prepare him for congress and the time in air force one, Jackie Kennedy<\/a> and Lyndon Johnson<\/a> he had been in congress for ten years. He was seasons. He learned at the foot of sam rayburn, in the process of getting legislation. The competition the jack brooks had, to be called mister president , jack brooks didnt seem to be that guy. Why was he yearning to be senator, the title he reveled in was mister chairman. The best representative for that district. He wanted to represent them at all. He made it at a young age. And he had other opportunities. In 1965 his dear friend johnson was president and he had no interest. He was 288 and the judiciary from 88 to 94. The preeminent arbiter of constitutional principle. Just how close he was still Lyndon Johnson<\/a>. Not just as a political ally, but a deeply personal, and to drink and have fun. Tell us a little about the nature of the relationship that was so unique. All endemic president s found jack brooks and ally, someone who was there man in the house. With johnson that was the case. As well as any president ever has, what he needed behind the scenes, what he needed to get done. After great most of it, not all and johnson didnt do that, he is extending on his own principle. On air force one, back to washington, brooks went to his Vice President<\/a> s home and the next week or two spending time, not only handling details but as a personal bulwark, saying you are the best man for this now and giving him encouragement. Listening to the tapes at the johnson library, it is amazing to listen to the two of them have this back and forth repartee that these are master politicians who know what they are talking about and other congressmen what they need, what they want to accomplish and how to trade and get their votes. For dozens and dozens of congressman to know exactly what their districts were like and what their future was. On november 20 second after the shooting happened, no one knew this was a communist plot, heightens not just anxiety but the trauma everyone was going through. When jack brooks got to the hospital they were surrounded by secret service, in the corner and his mobility was limited because he was president as soon as kevin passed away. They were not going to let him go anywhere but ultimately also very caring and compassionate and wanted Jackie Kennedy<\/a> to have people, to go back to the operating room where tony was lying and he could go himself. He was in the room with kennedys body with connolly upstairs and after asked brooks go with lady bird to the airport, brooks recalled that in parkland to lovefield. And and they the big burly, and basically on top of things. And brooks seem to come into his own. During the johnson administration. There was an interesting balance, rhetorical balance between liberal goals, liberal ideas, not exactly conservative hardheaded rhetoric and approach. Tell us about how brooks helped give us the great society. He was a Texas Democrat<\/a> and that was different. When he was fiscally conservative he came from a district that was strong on civil rights, strong on unions, Different Oil<\/a> refineries that were on the border between texas and louisiana so he stood out from a lot of Texas Democrat<\/a>s. What was the question . This combination which was turns into something so creative. Liberal goals, liberal hoax, liberal had no other time, the excitement and benefits of new deal legislation taking its course, you had the war and new generation that was battle horde and hardened, there were these liberal principles but they were fired in battle. Only on the end. They were a new type of policymaker. Having johnson in the white house, it was a beneficial relationship. They had a job to do and they were valuable. Aside from getting along personally. Johnson was kind of lonely, not just welcoming brooks to the white house, they had other plans. They go to the white house, spent hundreds of hours together not just talking politics but enjoying life. Lady bird and Charlotte Brooks<\/a> watched gunsmoke on tv, two couples that were getting together all the time. They enjoy each Others Company<\/a> and there were questions of that and brooks, for a president always called the loneliest job, at least someone who isnt trying to get anything for his personal gain. Not only shied away from getting something for beaumont but after anything after himself. The lesson he learned from rayburn was to the press. That day had this board of education on the east side for republicans and democrats. Drinking a scotch together. They decided to switch that. But he learned that from rayburn. Rayburn is still speaker, it was a real we belong to texas. They steered the conversation and understood. The direction they stared at was a lot worse than what we now think of as what texas wants. Why was he so friendly to civil rights . Do you know what the composition of this district was . More than the rest of texas . You had so much industry in this Little Corner<\/a> . Migrant workers coming from generations to that corner. He grew up in a different the district had traditional whites and a town in this district where the grand dragon of the ku klux klan lived in his district as well. You had a mix of people and political outlooks. Not only did he have to steer through that but really believe in civil rights, there was a time in response to brown versus board of education, 84 southern democrat congressman and 19 senators signed the southern manifesto, they continue segregation, that was the purpose of it. There were a few others, a dozen including jim right but also refused. Out of more than 100, 82 signed it and 19 senators. 11 original confederate states. Did he ever think about running for statewide office or National Office<\/a> . It feels like you really didnt give that a thought. It didnt occur to him and so that consequently didnt go to california, didnt care about the press giving anything special after his national stature. He cared about his district in beaumont and around and he cared about the power of the chairmanship in washington. He got an endorsement from the New York Times<\/a> in 1966. My policy about shipping to coastal waterway. How many president s did you say . People learned not to make the mistake that he worked under ten president s. The way this military experience needed a rulebook but he played by the real rulebook, and that was the way he became as effective a legislator as he did. He learns where he could bend the rules. As an officer they were staging to go back to guam at this point, supposed to sleep with his troops on the ship that was off the coast in okinawa but realized pretty quickly he could sleep on sure in the Officers Mess<\/a> hall, a red cross nurse named kitty. If you woke up at a certain time off of the dock and the carbon netting out to where the troops were sleeping like a buccaneer. Some compatriots and fellow soldiers cheered him on. They had to consider longterm military career. He started too late. One of the joys of doing research for this book, we found a cache of letters he had written home to his family and friends, the letters he had received and sent back to his sister, and filed them all away. He was a bit of a pat rack, for 70 some years. We were talking about what age . This is 45, he thought he would only make captain and some people who were captain were behind the trajectory. To participate in that very relieved, they were in preparation for it and they talked about the casualty estimates for american troops at 60 and they were very anxious when truman dropped the bomb on hiroshima and nagasaki they were relieved that even came up in a meeting they had in beaumont during a campaign and brooks was very outspoken. He would tell you what he thought and when it came time for a question to come up he said should have dropped a third and his staff is staff. They looked at cameras that had just been turned on. In those letters he was the classic overachiever, friends with the student body class president s in secret society clubs and they all exchanged letters what they were going to do after school and he wanted to come back and get his license and run for congress. He had a role to play. We are still in the 60s but as time went on, the levers and machinations of congress, how he could use his position and he did it through the Government Operations<\/a> committee and the judiciary and the time came, he was the person perfectly positioned for the next biggest thing that came up, the impeachment hearings. We will get to that in a second. Did he run first for the legislature . For two terms. His goal was to get Lamar College<\/a> which was in beaumont to make it a statefunded university. He tried and tried and failed and the next term he came back and tried some more and told people what effect because all these students from that area had to go away to go to college to get a full degree. He cared about that, his constituents. He did it quote came, by a margin of one or 2 and then he decided he was going to take all these legislators on a trip down the river and down the river it was Lamar College<\/a>. When it came up the river it was lamar university. A lot of people never heard of him because he did things that were important but did not get lots of publicity. For instance light bulbs. At that point i am not sure we are fast forwarding in congress. Why do lightbulbs burn out so much . There is no reason for them to. They can last much much longer. So he pushed have got legislation that made them change the way they make lightbulbs still have lights that stay on longer and dont cost as much. Actually yelling at an aid who was switching lightbulbs again, expletive, why do lightbulbs turn out so fast . The technology hadnt changed since the first lightbulb. The other thing was he also cared about other issues that were important to people like for instance computers, the whole notion of having computers, the government or ibm had a monopoly, paying, renting them, why arent we buying them so we dont have to keep paying the same rent over and over and he had the change so now there is more Free Enterprise<\/a> with the computers. Didnt he do a lot to bring about the computer age . For a texas congressman, he took this report, the computing specialists had compiled, saying this was always a disparate system and they talk to each other and they dont we have downtime in the va and a surplus of work to do in Health Education<\/a> and Welfare Department<\/a> and he said we have a bill and if these Companies Want<\/a> to sell or lease to the federal government they have to be interoperable. That was the term. Have it play on someone elses machine and vice versa and that set the stage and level playing ground for the modern it industry. At this point ibm had 70 lost its share and they told the federal government this is what we are going to sell you and how you are going to use it and how much we are going to charge. That is what a monopoly does. There is relevance to today in brookss life story and that is as a congressman he served on a panel that was impeach a federal judge. He had to learn the rules of impeachment. You can take the story from a. This is w o douglas, 1970, a federal judge who had accepted william o douglas, a great liberal Supreme Court<\/a> justice. Brooks was put on a select panel meaning congressman and senators to decide if there was reasonable evidence that an impeachment investigation should be brought into this case. They spend months on it and came out and said there is not enough evidence but that was 1970. 1974 comes around and he is the only person on the judiciary with impeachment experience so people think the reason why those impeachment hearings were kicked into the judiciary was tip oneill, majority leader of the time had such a rapport with jack brooks and so much faith in his rigor that he wanted him to take the reins. Even though jack brooks was not chairman or the most senior member, he knew that jack brooks was the driving force behind the judiciary. He got together with his staff, a couple dozen impeachment articles and wanted to get down to 325 strong ones and that was what he did in a back room in a broom closet some call it. He got this list together, a new senator, here are the impeachment articles at the same time. If it hadnt been for the smoking gun tape, resigning next week. He reduced possible articles to a manageable submitted some resolutions for impeachment and among those, essentially 52 targets, 17 were res. You started this hearing and not to investigate anymore. The watergate hearings. The chairman from new york, the special prosecutor, he didnt want to make a mistake. They didnt want to seem partisan or overzealous but the method was to go slow in bringing everyone in and brooks, forget about the optics and a fair process and get this started. 17 different critical charges. And said lets keep up with ten. They only brought 3 before the committee. Kickstarting this, this is been going on for months and months that he didnt want it to be another long drawnout legalistic fight over this so wanted to make sure the articles of impeachment dealt with constitutionals issues and not what does this mean and he wanted to be a strict constitutional impeachment issue. You can go to the center for American History<\/a> and see the drafts he went through that are redlined and crossed out and acted in concert. He didnt want any loaded words. Just withheld evidence. Very exact. Sounds like he was a newspaper editor. [laughter] that helped so its by no surprise that nixon called him how do we know he did that . Did he do that in public or did he he did that in private. We looked relentlessly for specific first source mentions of this. I think we have to chalk it up to political lore because everyone knows about it. Newspapers back in the day, people were talking about this. Its because he was at the fors behind the impeachment hearings. He forced his hand when he was wishywashy about we already sent him a a subpoena and he doesnt want to follow it, so what can we do . He said write him a letter again and demand that he comply. Maybe the real reason is because right before the articles were released, ro deno called all the democratic members of the committee together and he said okay, what are we going to do . Brooks kind probably took a cigar out of his mouth and said well, all we have to do is decide are going to shoot him or hang him . [laughing] prior to this, after agnew resigned and ford was chosen to be the new Vice President<\/a> , brooks had enough foresight to say lets ask you these questions. He had list of 52 questions to put two ford, because it for did become the Vice President<\/a> , whh was pretty obvious he was, and then nixon let, then ford would become president indeed. He wanted forward on record saying that whats an impeachable offense, or if this president did this, you know, did he deserve to stay in office . Lie to congress, lie to congress, fall supply tax records. 52 separate items. He was thinking ahead. Ford was minority leader then. Then. How did he feel about this grilling . Ford later wrote a note saying to him, thanking him. He said you were tough but fair. Great but fair. Thats my editor. [laughter] because im so curious i keep going back to that personal relationship of lbj almost like they were best friends those evenings there were lots and lots. I dont think johnson watched gunsmoke. [laughter] politics was their socialization. And thats what they enjoy talking about they would go through and see which things they would suggest. And thinking each other for their support and johnson famously said that he was afrai afraid. Did they ever clash or disagree . They did. Is the opinion of the federal judge in the fifties. Somebody appointed and then the tif was over. How did they get along with ford as president quex. He liked ford because he could have his way. [laughter] and ford was a decent man and represented a lot of what he disliked personally about nixon and worked with ford for a long time but he also fought him tooth and nail over runaway inflation and all these defense projects running amok and he wanted to do interesting things and have support but maybe were not the best idea and then they said no were not going to do this might be popular but its wrong. So jimmy carter wrote in his memoir how difficult it was dealing with brooks he wanted reorganization so that was the job of congress but did brooks support any candidate before the nomination . Not that im aware. But he campaigned for carter . Mckee was a partisan democrat no doubt about it. Brooks did talk to the media quite a bit about that on the National News<\/a> in over to the rattlesnakes of texas. [laughter] so he got the name snake killer mister chairman. [laughter] [applause] i think thats a great place to break and get some questions from the audience. Anyone with a question . We will start right up front. Do you have any personal stories or anecdotes that you thought we should know about that didnt make it into the conversation already . I like he was such a hard worker demanded discipline and hard work from his staff he was a tough boss. People loved him for it there was a story about a young staffer who was in his office and was tickled that the congressman had invited him over to the house on a saturday for lunch the chairman says good you are here i have brush for you to clear. [laughter] the Chairman Committee<\/a> gods and they bowed to their wishes over legislation so if they want something they are the experts in that field. There is a long story it is a different time now they dont live in the same neighborhoods and then spend two or three days in dc. And then kids ago to the same school they would be in those programs together. God knows it was partisan and one of the former governors and Strom Thurmond<\/a> was about two or three doors down. Besides being a segregationist and marrying 47 years his junior. So one day and said very proudly we are having a baby. You know, having a baby. Brooks looked att him, paused, looked up and said, who do you suspect . [laughing] other questions . I would like to go back to come to talk about the strong relationship between johnson and brooks, but from the way you described it it seems like they had very different ambitions and, of course, johnson had many masters from brown and russell to all these others whose work he to try to gain influence and move to a higher office. But it seems to me that brooks seemed more like rayburn insofar as he wanted to be first among his peers in the house. But what i want to know is, those are very rough and tumble times in the Democratic Party<\/a> in particular with such a coalition of different factions. Did you identify masters that brooks had, interest that he had to serve, and then beyond that, if you could talk a little bit about his eventual fall and loss of his final election. I might go toel the last thig first. It was 94, the crime bill that president clinton wanted brooks hadnt shepherded it, different forms. He knew, he believed it was important to separate them because the assault weapons ban was part of it and he knew that was a killer issue. This was an omnibus bill which meant it was like ten different massive bills combined into speedy tough on crime bill, to. And besides the assault weapons, yes, the incarceration which was a disastrous effect. But, i mean, this is a 94, clinton was insistent. Clintons been more he talks about this and says he shouldve listened to brooks and some others because they said this is going to kill us at the polls. The assault weapons ban. That one. But clinton said i want it all together. They voted for it and 50 Democratic Caucus<\/a> and lost their seats including tom foley was the only speaker of the house, current speaker to lose his seat. Sp thats what the blowback from that in 94 had brooks and nra member, like a said he had been a Texas Democrat<\/a>. He wasnt kind of soft on anything, but he believed in the second amendment. The nra invited him to be speaker at the conference for years prior news also host of the congressional skeet shoot out in fairfax, virginia, every year. As far as kind of gun supporting congressman went, he was the guy. A Lesson Learned<\/a> from that election was you cant slip up once with that particular lobby. Question over here. You talk about get along with the democrats but you have talked about his ability to get along with the republicans. Actually there were, not all republicans but the Record Number<\/a> of republicans that we counted as his friends. Even if they were opposed to some legislation, he was always willing to work with bob dole, did you want one thing about window was i meeting between the house leadership and the senate leaders, the house wanted the bill to go through the senate. The Senate People<\/a> led by bob dole wanted this legislation approved so it could move on and so they made a deal, and but dole said, but i want that in writing. Your leadership and your leadership, and as he was leaving, someone said, what about brooks providing in writing . No, brooks word is good. Brooks got back to his office and called up bob dole and said, i dont know what he said exactly, but probably like dammit, dont make me look bad in front of my leadership, you know . Dont complement me. [laughing] tip oneill was famous for his ability to get along with republicans. For example, president reagan. What examples do you have of mr. Brooks and getting along with the other side . He eventually agreed with ford, for example, on the budget and board change his budget as a result of brooks input. Reagan invited into the oval office to discuss legislative matters again and again. Herbert walker did. Herbert walker was always very good about referring to as the chairman. He was always deferential and brooks was in the room. Another thing, if we had more time in two write another couple chapters about this book or any other future or congressional researchers out there, there was a guy i think from new york, a republican named frank horton picky was a raking them on the house Government Operations<\/a> committee for years and years, and between the two of them the number of markey just marquis just like changing bills the two of them spotted together and push through congress is just amazing. Inspectors generalus act, the paperwork reduction act which reduce the federal bureaucracy, the Consumer Protection<\/a> act which eventually failed but it failed in that congress with carter. But it eventually passed. He and frank horton rest will affect as any pair of democrat and republican in congress during that time. Id like to take prerogative to ask one question of my own. One thing i think gets lost in the fun stories is the hard work of congress whereas theres a, in the book about workhorses versus show horses. One of the reasons we dont know so much about jack brooks is he was one of the workhorses. He was doing the actual job of a representative, democrat or republican, by saving the country money. I know there were lots of brooks bills and a lot of things, you mentioned the ibm, with the other aspects were his work just as a legislator helped the country as a whole . Will, he only saw the federal government as an agent for good, and he saw the leverage and the vast kind of reach the government had asas a way of kid of bullying private industry into acting well, or producing the type of products or services that people needed. He and trying to think. He apparently didnt believe like reagan that the government was the enemy. He thought the government is what was helping people, and maybe not always perfectly but things could be perfected or could be better. I was like, but it n was like te same feeling that you have to be against the government. He was totally for the government. I will wrap this up with one final question. Because you all know and have studied jack brooks so much, if he were to step into the Democratic Caucus<\/a> right now, thesent days, what advice would you give the Democratic Caucus<\/a> about the way things are done . You mean apart from the blistering language . I think a really, an interesting insight into what he might do today is what nancy pelosi is doing today. Because she was in office from up six or eight years while he was still there. She didnt serve on his committee but she definitely looked up to him as a mentor. Some of the acts she distinguishes not responding to the 24 hour news cycle, some of the more maybe younger firebrands right away, she take a more cautious approach making sure everything is done correctly. I think thats one indication as to what he might suggest. He was a stickler for the details and he knew the issues and legislation, everything inside and out better than anyone. There was a quote from an article in Texas Monthly<\/a> from the early 70s, and one of those things was, quote about brooks, it are two things that make a politician effective or not on the hill, is how strong their substantive position, and how much elbow grease can they put into it. Jack brooks had both. Thats probably can i say one more thing, as a reader. My prerogative as a reader. I just want to congratulate you to on the billions of this title. Title. I think its a wonderful title, and you think about at low bit. It has so many multiple meanings. Theres that guy. Yes, that monster with a cigar ready to slash the head off of whoever his questioning. But that word also suggests the golden mean. Also suggests methods worth doing things and he is able to do soou much, so much good, so much good of the kind that is now sneered at as government waste, and he sought the means to get these things done at the lowest possible price and the highest possible quality, and we need a bit more of that. He took that title, his colleagues to them about mina spent in congress, and he took it as a point of pride, you know, that he was tough. He also corporate ceos and pentagon generals and other departmental heads would be before his committee and they would mutter that s. O. B. , and brooks told the staff well, what you really mean is sweet old brooks. [laughing] [applause] i told you it would be a a fascinating evening, and it has been. Its not over yet. A cappella books has copies of the meanest man in congress for sale in the lobby. I encourage you to get it. Holidays are coming up. Just a thought. They will be signing copies outfront and theres also some dessert and coffee for you as well. Please join in thinkingg that al one more time. [applause] thank you all very much. [inaudible conversations] you are watching a special edition of booktv airing now during the week while members of congress are in their districts due to the pandemic. Tonight the digital world. Enjoy booktv now and over the weekend on cspan2. Washington journal prime time, especially the addition of the washington journal on the federal response to the coronavirus pandemic. Our guests, former Republican Senate<\/a> majority leader bill frist now a culture of the Bipartisan Policy Centers<\/a> Health Project<\/a> joins us to discuss Public Health<\/a> policy and the covid19 pandemic. And and of the university dr. William shatner come from prepas professor of Infectious Diseases<\/a> and Public Health<\/a> policy. Join the conversation tonight at 8 p. M. Eastern on cspan. And now Sharon Robinson<\/a>, the daughter of a baseball player jackie robinson, reflects on her life in the civil rights movement. She discussed a book i took a few phone calls at the 19th annual National Book<\/a> festival in washington, d. C. This is about 45 minutes. Host author Sharon Robinson<\/a> here in the suburban to cover her book, child of the dream a memoir of 1963. Ms. Robertson, where we are living and what we shall lifelike in 1963 . Guest we were living in stamford, connecticut. We had a house sat on six acres and a lake and surrounded by woods. We had the privacy that my parents were seeking. It was in a predominately White Community<\/a> in northern stanford","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia802909.us.archive.org\/23\/items\/CSPAN2_20200422_151800_Brendan_McNulty_and_Timothy_McNulty_The_Meanest_Man_in_Congress\/CSPAN2_20200422_151800_Brendan_McNulty_and_Timothy_McNulty_The_Meanest_Man_in_Congress.thumbs\/CSPAN2_20200422_151800_Brendan_McNulty_and_Timothy_McNulty_The_Meanest_Man_in_Congress_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240716T12:35:10+00:00"}