question but we have a microphone here and if you could please get up and use the microphone, then he gets recorded and a bullet else can hear the question and the answer. so thank you in advance for that. finally, we have two more events today, sometimes as beautiful the pictures but if you could not today that would be awesome. thanks. if you enjoy this event with about 500 of author events a year to check out our november, december events calendar. sign up for an email and also we opened up a bookstore at the wharf. if you haven't been there, it's been three weeks, check it out. with author events there and it's a beautiful space to hold great events. it's worth the visit. that's all the boring stuff. i'm excited to be introducing beverly daniel tatum dr. tatum is a clinical psychologist in research, black families of my commute, racial identity, and the role of race in the classroom. the nationally recognized authority on racial issues in america she is toured extensively leading workshops and preventing -- presenting lectures. after many years as a professor and a demonstrated history of as a vice president of spelman college from 2002-2015. [applause] upon her retirement a first project was to work on updating and revising her critically acclaimed book, "why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria?: and other conversations about race." this is over 100 pages longer and covers the impact of changing demographics, persistent school and neighborhood segregation, the firm of backlash, the great recession of 2008, the election of barack obama and postracial america, the margins of black lives matter and campus activism and the early days of the trump presidency. 40 years after this was first published, dr. tatum approach of direct and open conversation about racial identity and communication across different is what we need to hear and have to act on. please join me in welcoming doctor beverly tatum. [applause] >> thanks very much, emily. thank you all for coming. delightful to see you all here. i have already identified that there are some family members in this audience, classmates, certainly friends. i'm thinking there some spelman women. and i know that there might even be at least there's one person from wesleyan, of the wesleyan folks. [inaudible] thank you, mount holyoke, okay. we could do my personal biography by identifying the audience, but i'm certainly glad to see over here to thank you very much for coming. i'm going to say something about the title of this book, which is "why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria?: and other conversations about race." it is a long title, many people refer to it simply by the first half, "why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria?" but i always like to emphasize the second half and other conversations about race. because more than anything it is about the importance of breaking the silence about race and racism and having these conversations. in that spirit is my intention to talk a little bit about the book in its 20th anniversary edition, but then to launch as quickly as possible into conversation we all might participate in. i'm looking forward to that, and without further ado let me just say that i started working on this project as i was leaving my presidency at spelman college. i left spelman, i retired from the presidency in july 2015. with the idea that it wanted to work on this book and get it ready for release in the fall of 2017, which is of course what happened. but as i was working on it-manyy people would stop me and say what are you doing out? and i would say i'm working on this book, and repeat the type e and they would see what book? i would tell them the title and then they would say two things. the first thing would be, oh, do they still fit together? if you know anything about racially mixed environment unity and to that question is yes. those kids are still sitting in the cafeteria. and then the next question would be something like, well, isn't anything better? it's really the second question, is anything better, that want to focus on in the opening part of our time together. because it's a complicated question, and how you answer that question we depend perhaps on your generation, your generational status, your own life experience. i want to just take a moment and reflect on the last 28 years. the first thing i commented on in the book in the opening section of the book is a fact that our demographics have changed quite a lot. even in the last 20 years. but if you, like me, were born in 1950s, and i think they're probably a few of us in this room, what i can tell you is that in the 1950s the u.s. population was 90% white. 90. in 2014 i was born in 1954, fast-forward 60 years, 2014, the school-age population, u.s. school-age population was more, for the first time more than 50% children of color. that's a big change, and yet there are some things that have changed relative to the population. even though our demographics are changing rapidly, largely the result of not on differential birthrates but also immigration patterns, what we know is that black and brown children are more likely today to be in segregated schools than they were 20 or 30 years ago white children are more racially isolated than they were 20 or 30 years ago. that part hasn't changed. you might ask the question and during the q&a somebody wants to know, how is a possible? how is it that more than 60 years after brown v. board of education our schools are more segregated. the short version is that has a lot to do with supreme court decisions in the 80s and the '90s and the 2000s, that limit the ways in which districts could desegregate moving away from busing or moving away from court supervised school desegregation plans, moving away from magnet schools because you can't take race into consideration according to school assignment, according to the 2007 supreme court decision. and so today more often than not children are being assigned to their schools on the basis of the neighborhood, going to the local neighborhood school, and because neighborhoods are still segregated, we had schools that continue to be segregated. but what else has changed in the 20 years? we know that this pattern of school assignment is in some ways the same but worse than it was 20 years ago. the population has changed, but we also know that there been some of the changes in the last 20 years. there are three that are going to lift up just in this brief conversation and that a talk about in the book. one of those has to do with the crash of 2008. the economic downturn, if we could call it that, the great recession. what we know about that great recession is it that a disproportionate impact on communities of color, particularly black and latino communities, leading to the greatest loss of net worth in u.s. history. largely the result of the housing collapse, housing market collapse, and the ways in which those committees were targeted by high interest, high risk loans. we also know in that last 20 years that there's been pushed back against affirmative action programs. we know that, for example, the are a number of states, i think at least eight, the followed the pattern of california and michigan incompletely outlawing the use of affirmative action in statement organizations, including colleges and universities. so you find place like uc berkeley and ucla and the university of michigan having increasing difficulty bringing in black and latino students, native american students, particularly in california, because of the change in policies at those institutions and the kind of race-based affirmative action outreach that those institutions were doing the longer available to them as strategy we also know in the last 20 years that there has been, not on the pushback against affirmative action and the downturn of the economy, but the rise in mass incarceration. we've heard a lot about that. chairman of you read the book by mr. alexander the new jim crow, but that reminds us is that the policy from the drug enforcement policies, for example, the three strikes you're out policies really started to take hold in the late '90s. 20 years later we have seen a rapid escalation of a number sort of black men but not just black man, chris will also black women as well as latinos incarcerated. we know that the u.s. incarcerates more than any other nation practically. and so would we look at the imf that on young people in terms of families that are separated as a consequence of prison sentences, children growing up. there's a statistic in michel spoke that i i cite in mind tht there are more chilled separated from the parents today as a result of the prison system than was true during the time of slavery. it's quite striking, in the same way more people disenfranchised in terms of the ability to vote than during jim crow because of the laws around felonies and whether you can still maintain your right to vote. so these are things that have shaped our experience, but there's other things that happen in the course in the last 20 years. one of those things put my foot on the positive column, and that would've been the election of president barack obama in 2008. certainly some people would say so, and and even what he voted for it or not in that 2008 election, white after the election "usa today" did a poll of adults and the united states asking them how they felt and what did they think this election met. and two-thirds of respondents whether they voted for president obama or not said they felt it was an important symbol, that the united states population had been able to, for the first time, to elect a black president. yet the same weekend, the next day after that election was the largest influx of sign-ups for storm front.org which is a white supremacist hate site. so one the one hand we have symbol of electing a black president. on the other hand, in very close proximity a dramatic rise in participation in white supremacist activity. and the backlash that we see today manifested in the streets of washington, d.c. and elsewhere post the election of 2016 really has its roots back in 2008 as the response to the election of president obama. we also see that there has been a narrative, a postracial narrative, that was popular after the election, 2008, but that then quickly has been put aside, fortunately in my opinion, because it certainly wasn't accurate, that we were in a postracial state of being, but certainly that narrative was challenged by some other events in the last 20 years. most recently, the documentation of police shootings that we've all seen with these of cell phone video. we know about the impact of trayvon martin shooting in 2012, and the acquittal of george zimmerman, a man who shot him. we know about, certainly, and i don't need to rehearse all of the examples of police shootings, whether we think about philando castile in minneapolis or michael ferguson, michael brown in ferguson, missouri, the images black lives matter certainly part of the narrative of the last 20 years, and also the spread of campus activism that was spawned in part in response to black lives matter. and then of course if you move quickly into the present time, the divisive nature of the political election, this season in the fall of 2016, the election of donald trump and the reality that we are all experiencing right now. i'll comment about that later, but let me just say that that's a lot of stuff in the last 20 years. and what really crystallized for me the complexity of this question, is it better and the generational nature of the, was reflecting on whether, what would a 20-year-old say in response to that question? so let's imagine that for a moment. let's imagine you're born in 1997. i'm curious, is anyone here who was born in 1997? maybe not. but i was just speaking at wesleyan university yesterday and mount holyoke college the day before and spelman college on tuesday, and that all of those places who are a lot of students were born in the late '90s, 96, 97, 98. if you were born in 1997 you would be 20 20 just about now,r soon. i think about this. if you born in 1997, you were four years old when 9/11 happened. you might not remember 9/11, but you would certainly, you are growing up experience would have been shaped in a very significant way in the post-9/11 america. when you were 11, the economy collapsed and that might have had a very real impact on your family, depending on your personal circumstance. maybe your parents lost a job. maybe your family lost their house. maybe there were some other difficult economic circumstances associated with that great recession. or even if that was not a factor in your life, certainly when you were 11, president obama is elected for the first time. and that leads me to think about what it means to grow up from the time you are 11-inch of a tiny you are, eight years later, 19, with a black president, and our doesn't shape your view of the world, to turn on the tv and see president obama talking and see his wife and children living in the white house, and what that symbol means for you. but then let's imagine you are hearing as your turning on the news, and maybe believing, that this is a symbol that says race isn't an issue in the united states. where in a postracial society because this is what you seek him , your 12, 13, 14. you see all those things but then you jon newman and trayvon martin is killed, 2012. so you are 15 come in high school. do you identify with trayvon martin? may be you do. or even if you don't, maybe you're one of those teenagers who is texting on twitter, responding to what it means to be profiled if you are a young person of color. and the privilege that comes if you are white and not seen as a suspect. let's imagine you are 15, you're thinking about all these things. you are still think it's a postracial society. that might be a little confusing, and then your 17, maybe a high school senior. michael brandt is killed in ferguson. ferguson a ross. black lives matter is all the news. people are talking about that. what does that mean to you? and then maybe you're just starting college and now it's 2016. maybe your sophomore, and we are having this election season, and maybe you're involved in that election process, maybe not. but however if you're thinking about that now, the election result is donald trump has been elected president. not too long after that, white supremacists are holding a a ry in washington, d.c., celebrating his election. fast-forward, this comes after my book was published, but fast-forward to the spring, and we have charlottesville and deadly violence associated with that. so let's ask that 20 20-year-o, is it better? maybe not. and i raise that question from a 20-year-old perspective because if you ask a 63-year-old combats nay if you ask a 63-year-old, has there been progress in your lifetime, i can say yes to that question. i can suggest to the question because in 1954, i was born in tallahassee, florida, to educated parents. my father was a college professor. a talk, both my parents were educated at howard university, and -- [laughing] [inaudible] >> educated at howard university. my father went on to earn a masters degree at the university of iowa, and no 1954 he's teaching at florida and him. historically black college, at that time college, now university. and he wants to get a doctorate in art education. that was his field. and he's thinking about going to florida state, which is also in tallahassee. but in 1954 even after brown v. board of education, florida state was still a segregated institution, a whites only institution and he couldn't attend florida state. but the state of florida was obligated by law according to the supreme court decision to provide access. so what did the state of florida do ask it basically said we will provide you access. we will give you a train ticket to pennsylvania. and my dad got his doctorate at penn state, and he would always tell me the the state of floria didn't pay his tuition but that didn't pay his transportation. [laughing] to help them get to pennsylvania so he could earn that degree. when he completed his degree in 1957, he and my parents, my mom, he and my mom decided they did not want to raise their children in florida, and part of the great migration moved to massachusetts which is where i grew up and where he became the first african-american professor at bridgewater state college, now bridgewater university. i tell that story to say when someone says, has there been progress in your lifetime, i have to say yes, you know. i went to wesleyan university, i went to the university of michigan. i didn't have the challenges that my father had in terms of getting access to education. but if you born in 1997, your arc of history is much shorter and it happened to be at the time when a lot of things were moving backwards, not forward. and that is the background for this new edition of "why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria?: and other conversations about race." in some ways the answer is at ie same but the context is different. and it's without opening that i'd like to know lunch into our collective conversation. so let me pause there and see if you've got questions, you can even take, to comply and i know i said with a little bit of hesitation, because i'm the speaker. [laughing] let's just be clear, okay. but i invite questions and given a little bit of commentary if someone is interested in stepping forward. let's start there. [applause] if you have a question, they're going to invite to to use the bike back because we're going to be on television, booktv, c-span. okay, we have someone to get it started. thank you so much. >> so my name is charles branch. i have two boys, one is 19, one is 17 and they attend, the youngest, they both attended -- [inaudible] predominately white, all boys private school. they had a table, a black cable. and i would ask them, well, why don't you sit at the table with all the black kids? part of the reason that i sent them there was to have a broader understanding of our country and the predominant people, and be able to navigate. and they said well, dad, you know, these are the guys i know and these are the guys who are like me and to talk about the things we talk about. but to your point about being 19 and 20, they said the profile and a sense of yet, there to greet us far different mine grew up after them things are little bit more challenging than the work for me. but just as a parent it wishes for interesting for them to answer that question. i just wanted to offer that. >> and let me just say that you're not alone as a parent. the deputy to talk to a lot of parents who will say i put my child in this context in hopes that you have the opportunity to engage across lines of difference. what i like to say and know their number of educators here, what i like to say is that we should probably worry less about who is sitting together in the cafeteria and pay more attention to what's happening in the classroom, and that when -- [applause] thank you. when schools are intentional about creating opportunities for kids to connect across lines of difference, whether that's through group projects or collaborative work of the kinds of ways to bring people together where they're having the opportunity, recognizing that are not likely to live in the same communities, to engage in one another in structured ways, it often helps to increase the likelihood that they will be connecting across lines of difference when the time is more unstructured. but it is often the case that young people of color are really actively exploring their sense of identity in the context of the race conscious society in ways that often white teens are not. and for that reason they are not quite at the same developmental stage, right? i sometimes use the analogy of puberty, thinking about interest in dating and things like that, you know it young people don't always hit that enters at the same age. and so when those kids are interested in thinking about dating a focus on that, their friends were not yet quite at that stage are out of sync. they don't necessarily want to hang around together anymore because they have different interests. in the same way that if kids of colorfully focusing on the racial identity and explained that in their adolescence, the white teens have not yet started think about it, and some ways they are out of sync with each other. it is not, however, i want to say it is not necessarily the case that white teens can't think about the racial identity. it's just that their life circumstance has it really created the need to do so. but to the extent that teachers, educators are helping young people think critically about racism in our society, it does start to awaken an awareness of what what this means in young people, and that can be a very positive thing, though sometimes uncomfortable as well. but thank you for your comment and your question. >> i'm tracy roberts. i'm visiting from birmingham, alabama, and i wonder whether you have any commentary about what's going on there? there's a city that the suburb of birmingham that has recently asked to create its own separate school district, and the federal court said that's okay even though we acknowledged the racial motive behind this decision, and they were previously and continue to be i guess under desegregation orders. can you talk about that? >> i don't know the details but just listening to what you just said, i i would just say this s quite consistent with the previous court decisions that have led to the, to school resegregation. if we just look up answers of supreme court decisions, what we know is that after brown v. board of education there were a series of petitions that put pressure on the schools, the places that had a history of segregation, legalized segregation. there are lots of places that have a history of segregation, some of that de facto segregation but in those places where you they had legalized segregation in the south primarily, there were court orders and also pressure during the johnson administration to say, if you don't start taking action, we're going to withhold funding, department of education funding. fast-forward president nixon is elected and he gets supreme court justices, which speaks to my supreme court justice so important, he gets those for supreme court justices and they have in common and opposition to force school desegregation. and as a consequence, a number of cases come before them in the 80s and early 90s and even as recently as 2007, cases they give local districts more freedom to do with the want to do, right? so there was an important case in detroit that basically said you can't force busing across district lines, , so i can detrt desegregate without involving the suburban communities around it. that becomes impossible. then there were decisions, oklahoma had a series of cases that with you in the process of desegregating and then they re-segregated, and they were under court supervision. a lot of places under court supervision. and finally those places would say how long will we be under court supervision? shirley we have shown that we can desegregate and we no longer need court supervision. the supreme court said, once he had demonstrated that you have created one school district not a black one and a white one, but one unitary school district, then you no longer have to have supervision. supervision goes away, within a few years they are segregated again. those are just a couple of examples, but this is all to say that just as we've seen, in 2013 the getting of the voting rights act, in the same way we've seen courts deciding favor of policies that allow for resegregation it were moving backwards. i like to say that progress is really linear, you know, two steps forward, one step back. it's hard to deny that we are in a one step backward moment. but but i want to say this abouy book. when i i was working on the prologue, the last 20 20 yearss part of the prologue, i will be honest with you and i say so in the book, i found it a little depressing. and so i made a commitment to myself and the reader that i would and unhelpful note. and so there is an epilogue in the book, and epilogue is titled signs of hope, sites of progress. and one of the things i was doing what i was working on the book was looking for people and places that were taking action that we could say might lead to progress again. so i want to say very clearly, i believe progress is possible but it will require all of our efforts. there's no doubt about that. thanks for your question. >> hello. i live in north arlington. i'm part of the community called challenging racism and we are using your book. >> great. >> for the last two months i've been in it, i have tapped it and i fall in love with it but there's a concept i would like for you to expound upon a little bit. in the group directly of us. north arlington, yorktown high school, my daughter is a tenth grader, predominantly white school, and with what's been happening recently there's a lot of racial tension. we got to the part in the book where you discuss the concept of anti-racists, actively racist, and passive racists. woodward may be in our third or fourth session of the class and you could tell we were somewhat, i don't see we were divided by the african-americans understood their fight, and patient understood their fight, but when we got to those concepts i think a lot of us found out we felt and maybe a passively racist column with, and imagery of being at the airport, moving walkway, and i don't think any of us realize that we are participating without realizing we are participating. so can you expound on this concepts, those three although that? >> sure. for those who have not yet read the book or for those who have read an earlier version of the book, let me just say this by way of telling you preparation for the book. when i get ready to work on this book i wanted to get feedback from people i been using the earlier version over these last 20 years, people have been reading it and teaching and all that. i was grateful that some help with that. i called about a research firm called creative research solutions that help me buy anything faculty numbers who would been using my book and asking them about what with the concepts that they found most helpful and what seem dated, what was missing, getting that kind of feedback. i thought about all those things as working on the new version. but one of the things many people said was whatever you do, don't take out that moving walkway. because students will find this as a helpful concert. so for those of you wondering what is that, it's an analogy i talk about, and you can imagine each event at the airport and you step on the moving walkway, heading from one terminal to another unit carried along. if you think about the policies and practices the way that racism is institutionalized in our society, there's a cycle of racism that was in place long before we were born and is reinforced by cultural norms, reinforced by institutional practices, reinforced by individual attitudes. but even a person who feels that they are not, they are not particularly prejudiced in their own attitudes, even someone who says i'm good in that way, may be participating in institutional policies and practices without questioning them. and to the extent that racism is operating, to the extent that we have tracking in schools that is racially biased, you know, disproportionally, there some date in my book where i talk about the fact black children of white children with the same test scores often end up in different track assignments. and to the extent that those things are happening and we're not asking questions or raising concerns about that, we are colluding. and that collusion is like standing still on that moving walkway. there are some people, we might all agree actively racist, marching, carrying torches, shouting things in charlottesville. we might say those people are the racists. they are not just standing on the walkway. they are running to the end. they are really actively seeking to go where that conveyor belt is taking them. and there are other people who would say that would never be me. i don't have this attitude. i would never be a that way. i would never say those things. but i'm not doing anything, i'm just standing here. if you're just standing there on a moving walkway you're still being carried along. you might get there not as rapidly but you're still going to get there, right? you are still being carried along. maybe you say i don't like that destination. i am not going to that destination. let me turn around. if you turn around and don't move, you just traveling backwards, right? you are still going. you don't see where you are going but you're still going. the only way to interrupt that pattern, the only way to interrupt that cycle is to actively move in the opposite direction. you have to move with enough energy to outpace the walkway, and that's what i'm talking about when i talk about being actively antiracist. you can think your antiracist but if not do anything to interrupt the cycle, it's like you're turned around and you're moving backwards, you are not looking. i hope that makes it clear, but it is a new way for people to think about it. one of the reasons i spent speo much time in that chapter on by defined terms, which is chapter one, is because many people use the terms prejudice and racism interchangeably. and it's more to understand that we all have prejudices. we all have misinformation about people different from ourselves. we've all been exposed to stereotypes. i talk about that this information like smog in the air. you can't avoid it. if you live in a spotty place you're going to breathe some of it in, and inevitably you will breathe some of it out, right? not because you want to but just because it's unavoidable. we are not, we have to acknowledge that might not be our fault that the air is smoggy, but we will have for cleaning it up if you want it to be different. [applause] >> good evening, dr. tatum. my name is virtually gone. i'm from washington, d.c., or endres. i was born in 1959 and i just want to say my mother graduated from howard dental school. my father was also phd, he's deceased. on the military veteran, airborne paratrooper tank platoon leader, nba howard, second master gw, and i worked for intel, work for jpmorgan chase, corning and all those top jobs was given to me by a black man. so when your son is sitting at the lunch with his other bubbas, don't worry about that. [laughing] one brother that can make a difference, and i also want to say to all the white people out there, if you ever want to help a qualified black man who doesn't do drugs, but who still emanates blackness, don't be scared of that. go ahead and stand behind the brother or sister. nothing to be scared of. look at the behavior, look at the performance. the other thing i want to say is, white supremacy, the images, neo-nazis. but to me, correct me if i'm wrong, or concur with me dr. tatum, the premises as a set of behaviors where you put a particular person with a certain characteristics that someone else. we go to martha's vineyard every year and my wife right there, she's a librarian, robin, where you at? my wife, right there. >> her sis was up at a book reading at martha's vineyard and it was a black, which harbored. she was signing the book, then a white lady come by, -- [inaudible] that's an example of marginalizing a nonwhite person. nonwhite people, they can exhibit white supremacist behavior we all, like you said, it's a smog. so it's a human behavior thing. i've been discounted by all kinds of people, not just white people but of the people. so my to you, dr. tatum, you've done a terrific job of analyzing the situation. how do we get to a solution? how would we get a solution? we need to get tactical with it. but your book is terrific. >> thank you. thank you very much. [applause] thank you both for you, and the judgment of my book, and let me just say that one of the things, so i talk for a long time, of course the psychology of racism and much of what's in my book was inspired by what he learned in the process of teaching that course on the psychology of racism. one of the things that i i cant understand about teaching it was that the course needed to have three parts, and this is speaking to question. the three parts were what, so what and now what. the white was about, the book is organized in that way, what, so what and now what. what is racism, how does it operate, how a bill impacted by, what you identify as white or colored were all impacted and hurt by racism differently but nonetheless all of us are impacted. and so what, so what does it mean in terms of how we think about ourselves, our own sense of identity, how we view other people, how we explained to the world. that's so what. in the now what is now what can we do about it? and to your particular question about the tactics. one of the things i used to say to my students, and i would say to all of you and i say to myself is what is my sphere of influence? who to influence? everybody influences somebody. everybody influences family members or friends or coworkers or members of our organizations or our civic organizations, our houses of worship. we all have a sphere of influence. some people have bigger sphere of influence than others but edward hazlett. what i used to ask my students to do was to think about an aspect of this problem that was of concern to them, an aspect of racism face on manifesting in their daily lives that they wanted to work on, and did to think about how they could use their influence to address it. that might be a letterwriting campaign. it might be looking at institutional policies and practices in the school. it might be, everybody's got their own sphere and what they choose to do. and their particular talents for doing it. i say all that to say that it can be quite overwhelming. if we think about the long enduring nature of racism in our society baked into the very core of our history, and he continues to manifest itself in lots of different ways, and that is an overwhelming concept if you think about just how long it has gone on. and continues to manifest itself. at the same time, for me the antidote to being overwhelmed is to focus on the immediate influence. you know, what can i do? can i start a book group in my school and get people talking about this? and then in that group begin to look at twice the policies and the ways in which those have influenced by race or disciplinary practices, and the way that is building a school to prison pipeline. or looking at housing availability in our community and how that is being allocated and is getting access and who isn't. there's some issues that we could talk about. are you concerned about this and pipeline? are you concerned about affordable housing? are you concerned about the books in the library? that something to work on. who sees themselves represented in that library? what resources are available to communities that are under resourced? there are so many angles, and so that's what i always come back to what your sphere of influence and what you think you can make an impact? if everyone was leveraging their sphere of influence we would see change. thank you for your question. >> so, dr. tatum, i met a policy to social social justice work and equity work, thank you. thank you for -- [applause] >> thank you for updating this work it many of us have been waiting for it, so thank you. but i but i speak today as a paf a fifth grader, and most recently my daughters history gigi came to me and said she was very upset today because we are embarking on a study of slavery. and she said, off the record to her, she said this is not my favorite subject, right? so for me a somebody does diversity inclusion work for a living, i was like oh my god, my kid is not comfortable talking about slavery. but much of it is the nature of what you talk about in your book. book. so my question is about counsel, counsel to parents who are trying to have conversations with teachers, with parents, within the community and how we for indoor kids and narrative that is one of resistance, one of being whole in spite of. so if you would just have a fellow parent in the audience, we started a little book club for our daughters, if you talk about -- >> can ask you how old your daughter is? >> eleven. >> let me just say, so that is a chapter, there's a lot in the book about conversation with young people about these topics, and there is a story in the book about a a conversation i had wh my son he was for about slavery here now, you might say he would have conversation with the kids when they were for? i wasn't seeking to have that conversation. it came up in the course of, i'm going to give just a snippet of how came up. we lived in a predominately white community. he was in a preschool where he was one of very few children of color and the only black child, and we were in the grocery store shopping together and he says to me, so when so said, tommy says i'm black. am i black? and i say yes, you are particular to me it says but my skin is brown. answer that i'm like okay, i got this. [laughing] yes, your skin is brown or black is a used to describe african-americans dislike the use the term white to describe european americans. black people are different shades of brown. they are not really black. just like european americans are not really white, they are hand or pink base. so i'm explaining this. he didn't completely agree with him. i just want to say when it's at the white people were not really white. he said yes, they are. i said no, they are not. then i could tell you more, it's in the book, i will not tell you the whole story but i will say this. i was concerned about the tone of his voice when he asked me if he was black, like maybe there was something wrong with being black. so i wanted to make a positive connection. i said you can tell you french are african-american. if the color language isn't working for you, you can tell your friends that are african-american. then i started talking about how proud he should be to the african-american, and i was talking about all the things i knew about africa, and a pleased to say i knew some things. so i'm going on in a very positively about africa and being, of african dissent which he said if africa so great, what are we doing here? how can you answer that question with a talking about slavery, right? so then we had this conversation about slavery. and if you want to know more about exactly what i said, i just want to take this long to say i made a ted talk about it, and the title of that talk is, is my skin brown because i drank chocolate milk? and it is about how to talk to you and people about race. but let me just say in my narrative as in describing to my slavery there were three things, targeted for your old, but the three things i wanted to keep in mind for him have to do with, first of all, this was a long time ago. you were never a a slave. i was never a slave. grandma and grandpa were never sleep because of something you have to worry about, right? so that was the first thing, so reduced that anxiety. within the second thing was i wanted him to understand that as horrible as it was to be enslaved, those who were enslaved were not just passive victims. .. you also can resist being of the demands are and those were the three most important elements. if you're talking to an 11-year-old come you don't have to worry about, this is a long time ago, they got that part. where we go wrong teaching about slavery in schools as we don't emphasize resistance to victimization and we don't look at the story of resistance to the demise being and in the predominantly classroom and they turned to look at her, ensure that happens. he won the fight on your chair because people are like you are from that group these horrible things happen to them as they demise and how are you responding to that. people are looking defeat. the smart teacher in that space in that moment might call that out and say notice everyone is looking at cz, but i'm wondering what we think him and those of us who are white, what is going on in the minds of those white people. let's talk about the wife responds and how does that make us feel at that time. not to say that we are trying to shame people, but to engage everyone in understanding that this history impacts all of us and just as there were people resisting the demonstration, you know, that harriet tubman of the world in terms of slave rebellions, but there were also the people who were opposed to slavery and that narratives of people resisting the oppressive conditions on both sides of the story is an important piece that doesn't get enough attention in my view and i think it would change not just the experience of the class, but also how they would facilitate our capacity to have these conversations. thanks. >> thank you for your work and i'm so glad to see the diversity of this audience here. it really does give me hope. i would say, my question is going to be about social media and how we get conversations in light of that, but before that, i wanted to say i am a very, very proud double graduate of the mecca howard university and this is my big sister here behind me. i grew up in washington d.c. in a segregated washington d.c. not many people understand that where you couldn't sit at the drugstore counter. you couldn't go in department stores and try anything on. >> they want you to speak into the mic. >> i grew up in a segregated washington d.c. or you could not sit at the lunch counter right downtown. you could not go into the department stores and try on a hat. you could not gain a job as a ticket taker in this town and it was very real and very, very southern and a lot of people find that difficult to believe based on what washington d.c. is today. i am not a fan of brown v. board of education in spite of all the time because in my own personal experience i did get shifted from a wonderful and achieving school that i wanted to go to to roosevelt high school for the principal said to us, called us in an auditorium that it was not her decision. everything was cut out but involved in a social interaction among other of his cheerleaders, anti-socialite to me at all. look at the journalism clubs, civil defense club, baseball, but nothing that allowed students to interact beard every day for four years i sat next to people you would see on 14th street and in the stores and they walked right by your remote that you are as if they're looking right through you and you just sat with them all day long in a class. this is the reality of what happened to some of us than you could not take me at that time to go to any white institution and i was so glad to go to howard university where he felt nurtured, where i felt welcomed, where we had the best teachers in the country because we had no african-american teachers at roosevelt high school at that time. so this is reality. i would also say this. you cannot not talk about slavery. this country was founded in its history, laws, regulations, practices and economic structure. the south was the wealthiest part of the nation. charleston itself, founded emmanuel church where they have the massacre would be a swamp and on that degradation and the skills people brought with them from africa. they brought their skills with them and made other people wealthy. how are you not going to talk about slavery and if you can talk about the achievement and where we are now and what a difference it made in the country. the other thing is we've been here before. if you look at reconstruction after the civil war, all you see happening now to me was played out in reconstruction. it's important to talk about that, to help people understand it and to see if there's nothing new about charm. so many of us in the african-american community expected him to be a lack that because we were feeling the backlash. i am a descendent of people who were enslaved in virginia on both maternal and paternal side. i don't shy away from it. i talk about it. there was a time when there was a lot of shame should be part of the slave history, slave ancestry and i talk about it all the time because what howard university did to me, it taught me about the diaspora. it taught me about slavery not just in this country, but elsewhere in the world, but it taught me more importantly that we brought skills, talents, love, affection, religion website and when we came here, we were able to make some of what was imposed on us our own. we are a wonderful, wonderful, beautiful people and we need to know that and talk about slavery in spite of. i thank you so much for your work. [applause] >> thank you so much for your contribution. i wouldn't disagree with anything of what you said, but i would say unfortunately, the experience of your 11-year-old is not what you just described. typically, the discussion as i have understood it and seen it in textbooks and other places. >> with my daughter to my school. >> and incomplete discussion. >> they told her he would be a slave. those kinds of comments. that's right. you would be a slave and it still exists. we have to be comfortable, all of us talking about slavery and doing just what you said talking about not just the abolitionist, but the resistance. what you think the impact of social media when you say we should create opportunities and structures. how are you going to do that when everybody's head -- >> let me just say i'm a user of social media. i have a twitter account and i find it useful. that said, there are some conversations better done in person and not everything can be conveyed in 140 characters or less, which is i like to send twitter sometimes that is why i write books because there are some things that take up more time and space. one of the things i want to emphasize and i know we are running short on time and everyone's still standing as a chance to comment. it is my hope we'll hear from all the people currently in mind that not more people. that said, you know, it is important for all of us a better understanding of our history and that is one of the reasons this book is longer than the original version is because i tried to put more historical information in it because it became clear to me in my presentation in talks that that is a real missing piece in social media can help us with that. i get a lot of great resources on social media. >> idea make this happen in the schools and the black kids sitting at the same table. >> i want to put in a plug for someone else's book of madness by cathy davidson called the new education. one of the things she talks about is how teachers effectively use modern technology, social media to engage students in research and other things in ways that deepen their understanding. it can be a barrier. we know if you have a conversation with somebody that will put down their phone, it's hard. at the same time, there are ways to use those tools to encourage critical thinking and anybody in the classroom today needs to be thinking about how do i incorporate that that technology in ways that keep students engaged as opposed to seeing it as a barrier to learning. thank you for your comment. >> thank you. >> before i ask my real question, i would like to say one thing about slavery and how people might feel about it. people who were enslaved are the descendents of slaves and there are slaves in the world today should never feel guilty or embarrassed or less being a slave. if the lowlife people who can hold someone in slavery, who should look at who they are, what it takes to enslave another person is really a heinous kind of person who can do it, that is the person who needs to be ashamed. not the slave. and no black person should ever feel left in any way, for any reason, but certainly not for having been in slavery. >> thank you. amen. >> we didn't cause it, we didn't do it and the people who did it should have the guilt and the shame. >> do you have a question? >> with whom should we have these conversations about racism? sometimes the conversation on race reminds me of a bad area to. last night the so-called filter party doesn't want to discuss anything. i don't know what you think is wrong is working for me and the other party is trying to get a conversation going and it's not happening. first of all, in general, white people do not want to accept what they have done. not just african-americans. but when this was so-called discovered by white people within a killing field from day one. it's been taken by power, having no regard for anyone who isn't like you. having the notion you have the right to take and use whatever you can take and use. simply by force and might. some of you have read guns, germs and steel, but the guns have been a major power in what white people now hold today. they don't want to admit what they have done. i've had this conversation with black people for 99 years. >> about to answer the question. >> this is a gentle audience. these are not the people you have to worry about. there's a whole bunch of them out there. they support donald trump. they make the south what it is today. right now it's no different than what it is in 1940. black people are still subjugated in many ways. the prison population, many people today for the same offense is happening now under the opioid -- >> there's no question of that. >> i would like to respond and i appreciate the passion with which you are speaking. let me say you are absolutely right that it is certainly the case if you are systematically advantaged by in islam, in this case raises some, there's a lot of reasons you might not want to have knowledge that. many people do struggle with that. at the same time, conscious of the fact that nothing is free. when we think about the negative impact of racism of white people, what is that negative impact? fear, anxiety, psychological distress. >> the mortgage rate -- they'll take that over the better health care. they're not trying to get the point where i feel better about living in this community. they want more. >> i want to acknowledge in teaching about racism for a long time -- >> probably longer than you. >> that might be true. what i will say debra white people in this audience who decided they wanted to come and read the book or hear about it, i have had most of my teaching experience outside of my time at spellman has been in predominately white environments and i've had white students who have said, this is a concern for me. i want to know more about this so i can take action in my community. i see it. and so what i would say for the talk about organizations like showing up for racial justice or other places, are there enough people? can we see the impact of that? we have to mobilize. for my own personal experience, and i know why people quite committed to working against racism. are there enough of them? there is an organization in michigan, the kellogg foundation , which has just launched a major initiative which they are calling truth, racial healing and transformation and they have spent millions of dollars to try to work with communities who want to mobilize. now, i can see the skepticism on your face and i want to acknowledge that, but at the same time -- >> by families from michigan and there are lots of stories in michigan. >> there's a lot of stories everywhere. that's not the point. there are people who are trying to mobilize. >> trying to link them all together. >> that is what kellogg is trying to do. can one foundation do it all? but i want to say them that i think is really critical for the way people in this audience in the way people watching the television, i want to say that we should all appreciate and recognize the frustration and there are lots of people, myself sometimes included double say enough already. in the book. >> at a certain point, you have to be the one to stop this. >> it is not something people of color can do by themselves. >> it can be done alone, but if things do not change their going to be more people lashing out in ways that are not comfortable. >> this is why -- the point i was trying to make when i was saying that there is a cost. the privilege has a cost in the cost can be fear, worry that people will take what i have, whatever it may be. that fear and anxiety as a consequence of the invaded racism in our society and some white people who say i don't want to be a part of that. are there enough? more people will understand the cost for continuing the system we have. they thank you for your comment. [applause] >> hi, i am a graduate student here in this area appeared to go to georgetown is a master student did something based off an article i've been reading this week have led me to realize basically all the education is have been at white institutions. >> get to a you can. >> basically throw my entire education i've attended but i think i should start calling historically white institutions and i'm curious about the idea at the institutional level to engage faculty in those conversations based off the power dynamic was sitting in the classroom as the only black student sitting in the room. i was curious to see if you have any insight or thoughts on how i can influence my fear of influence given that context. >> if your question is how can you as one of very few black graduate students in your program impact that program, the first advice i guess i would give to you as someone who's been in that experience is to find allies and those allies might be you don't need that many. i used to graduate students you really need one and that should be their advisor. to find allies with whom you can share and can support you in mentor you and help you navigate through that so you can achieve your goals even if the system is working in your favor and also look for a network of support of other women of color and if they are not in your programs, sometime you can find them outside of the program. a network of support is critical. is there another? last one. >> we were in kind of a unique situation. okay, -- just hold it. >> on the one side we find ourselves in a unique situation. we are parents of a black child and fortunately we live and it was better to live in a neighborhood that's majority minority as opposed to living and not and we made the decision to live in northeast d.c. we both go to a church, catholic church which is predominantly black. we've been expected, she's been loved, but i've heard what she had to say, kind of daunting for us, to face challenges that we never even thought about in a million years facing. we've tried to find templates to identify and she's three now. she has cerebral palsy, so we've been working more on her trying to get while, so we've been slow on my progress. what advice would you give to parents of a child -- we both have masters in my degrees, upper middle class. >> for people who couldn't hear exactly what you were saying, this gentleman is saying that he and his wife are the parents of a black child who also suffers from cerebral palsy, but the question is, how do white parents raise the black child. that is sort of the core of your question in a way. >> i don't mean to take up your time, but for us it's so personal. everyday you wake up, change her, clean her, clean her, feed her, play with her. and i hate to say this, you look past the obvious because it's become so personal and when you go out and about, that's my daddy. >> yes, of course. >> and sometimes you say things that people who may not be familiar with the situation are absolutely mortified by. the big challenge is the hair. >> there's a chapter in my book about multiracial families in multiracial families can be formed in a variety of ways. it can be formed through adoption, for their interracial marriage. lots of ways families become multiracial. but there is a chapter about some of the challenges and from the point of view from young people growing up in their families, what they need from their parents. one of the things i want to say that is really important is to acknowledge that her life experiences different than yours, it's going to be different than yours and as many adopted children will say, love is not enough. love is important of course, but also an understanding and move into the world, people respond to in a different way, you have made choices living in a mixed -- racially mixed neighborhood, choosing people that will reflect her identity from all of those things are positive steps, but i urge you to read that chapter because there's lots of advice from people in a similar situation. >> we saw the documentary closure. i also found her facebook a father in south africa who adopted a black child in south africa. >> but using social media and not scrape a connecting with someone in south africa, but there's families right here in d.c. >> you're so busy at the time -- >> let me say your daughter will appreciate the effort you make to create that sense of community. thank you. thank you all for coming. [applause] [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> at things like higher education has a love-hate relationship. they love until something goes wrong. >> that is definitely fair. reflex is a big selling point. had existed until go to places like indiana university were and the university were spent a lot of time because of the social life centered around fraternities. afterwards become some of the most loyal donors. indiana university again found the data to make up 19% of alumni that 60% of donors. they are loyal today have a great deal of power. they attract students and they are basically promoted. you go to some of these campuses, the palatial mansions, which are very appealing housing and when something goes wrong, the universities will then be pretty quick to condemn them. >> when something goes wrong, who's responsible? i mean in terms of -- i don't think parents understand sometimes the responsibility can come back to them. hundreds of thousands of miles away. >> that is true. one of the issues i looked at in the book as insurance, particularly the business reporter how we started looking at fraternities. one of the problems since the 80s was fraternities have a lot of trouble getting insurance. the risk is something just about toxic waste dumps in terms of risk. fraternities really struggled with this. the solution was to craft insurance policies that excluded drinking and hazing and sexual assault, which on a lot of levels make sense because you don't want to subsidize. on the other hand, what tends to happen when something terrible happens and there is a lawsuit, the fraternity members themselves for liability insurance doesn't cover them. that these lawsuits can drag on for years and so parents have to do tap into their homeowners policies to how your lawyers and payout settlements. >> i get the sense most parents don't know that. >> definitely not. [inaudible conversations] >> absolutely. >> error

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