Transcripts For CSPAN2 House Administration Committee Hearing On Sexual Harassment 20171115

Held a hearing to examine congresses internal Sexual Harassment policy Committee Member Jackie Speier spoke. This is an hour and 40 minutes. For purposes of todays hearing titled preventing Sexual Harassment in the workplace. The hearing record will remain open for five legislative days so members may submit any materials they wish to be included. A quorum is present so we may proceed. At the outset i asked for unanimous consent that committee on ethics chairwoman susan brooks and ranking matter ted sit on the dais in question today. Without objection that is approved. I also asked unanimous consent that representatives Jackie Speier be sitting on a panel of witnesses. Without objection so ordered. I would like to thank all of our witnesses taking time out of their busy scheduled to be with us on this very serious issue. I commend speaker ryan for bringing this important issue to the forefront and for tasking this committee to undertake a comprehensive review. Todays hearing is a critical part of the review process. First and foremost, let me say that there is no place for Sexual Harassment in our society. And especially in congress. This is an extremely important topic and it will take all of us working together to effectively address the issue. I believe as members of congress, we must hold ourselves to a higher standard. A gender that demonstrates we are ready of the trust placed in us by our constituents and the american people. The disturbing account of Sexual Harassment experienced by current and former members including one of our Witnesses Today, revealed that Sexual Harassment is a serious problem in our society. And congress is not immune from the issue. It is no secret that cultural capitol hill is unique. While there are 441 employing offices in house among members and representatives we should all share the common goal of creating safe and Effective Work environments that are productive, collegial and responsive to the needs of us constituents and the public. The personal accounts described by current and former colleagues and staff suggest that not every office is achieving this goal. These accounts dictate the need for comprehensive review of the houses policies and procedures as well as the Resources Available to relate to Sexual Harassment in the workplace. Currently, Sexual Harassment Awareness Training is not mandatory for members and staff. He was also concerned that victims of Sexual Harassment are not aware of the Resources Available to them. Some have criticized the process to adjudicate claims of Sexual Harassment. Today, we will have two members. One of them was a victim of Sexual Harassment while a congressional staffer and the other is specialized in employment discrimination litigation including Sexual Harassment cases before his election to congress. In addition, we will have representatives of the office of compliance and the office of house employment counsel. Two entities that are responsible for providing training and resources to members and staff. Among other services. The office of compliance is an independent agency established by the Congressional Accountability Act to administer and enforce provisions of the act. While the office of compliance is responsible for educating and training members, staff and the public on workplace issues there are individuals like representatives booktv cspan. Org, and norton who havent spoken publicly about the need of the office to do more. The office of house employment counsel located within the office of the clerk, provides training and resources for members and chiefs of staff as well as training for the entire office. In addition, the office of house employment counsel represents employers in the office of compliance proceedings. Several bills and resolutions have been introduced in the house seeking changes to the process. Many of which involve making training mandatory for all members and staff. According to the office of compliance and i quote it is widely acknowledged that antidiscrimination and antiretaliation training for employees provides many benefits to the workplace. Education directly impact employee behavior. A company is a Training Program continues to be the most effective investment and organization can make in reducing complaints and creating a more productive workforce. I believe we need mandatory training. I think probably everyone here will agree. As well as a more organized and comprehensive approach to address Sexual Harassment in the Congressional Workplace. As i said at the beginning of my remarks, the hearing is just the first step in our review. I look forward to hearing from witnesses and both panels. Mr. Brady, i will now recognize you for Opening Statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for calling this hearing today. The Congressional Workplace here has zero tolerance for Sexual Harassment and any kind of discrimination. That is why i was pleased to be one of the first sponsors of the congresswoman from californias resolution. Congressman Jackie Speiers courage and determination deserves respect and attention of members of congress and her plan deserves action. I think her very much for being here today. The congresswomans proposal requires mandatory training for members and staff. It will also require an office of compliance to get back to us very quickly on additional improvements to the program. This Bipartisan Legislation is the first step in the house should pass it emily. I want to emphasize that this should be just a first step. I hope we can also look at ways to strengthen and clarify our dispute resolution process and other ways to support the office of compliance. Including additional money. I have supported the additional appropriations for the office of compliance. It is important work that needs our support. I think witnesses, i thank them for being here today and mrs. Speier will be june is on the dais after. Im also pleased that Ranking Member of the Ethics Commission the Ethics Committee will have a role to play in holding all the rest to the highest i yelled back to you mr. Chairman. Thank you mr. Brady. I now recognize Barbara Comstock for Opening Statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman. In recent weeks, Sexual Harassment and Sexual Violence of powerful men have come to light as never before. People have names names and there is a renewed recognition rightfully of this problem. And in a change of culture that looks the other way because of the offenders and who they are. Whether is bill cosby, harvey weinstein, bill riley, mark helprin, roger ailes, kevin spacey or one of our own. It is time to say no more. I have been an intern in his body i have been a staffer. I have been counsel on committee and now as a member. I particularly appreciate the opportunity for this hearing today. I appreciate that we have already committed to mandatory Sexual Harassment training for all of the members. And besides that staff. I think we do have a consensus of need to have improved training, training materials and practices and making sure we are Getting Better reporting, better response, feedback of really knowing what is going on with surveys or other type of things. Most important, to protect the victims. I know we will be exploring that in weeks to come. We need to know more examples of what is actually happening and making it easier for the victims to come forward. We know there are so many in the shadows were forgotten because the situation may have happened at a time where less attention was paid. Last night i had the opportunity to talk to who in 1988 filed the First Successful harassment complaint. 30 years ago. Against representative jim bates of california and a recent interview, i hope you have seen it if you have not read it. She noted how most for many women in the office had the same experience. But only she and one other came forward. But she felt it was so important. In speaking with her and see how brave she is, this is 30 years ago. You can hear the pain still in her voice. In telling the story. But you can also hear the strength and the resolve and women need to hear that and know that. And know that we will be there to back them up. We know, and i think it is important we name names. The hollywood rumors, all of these things. People had heard of her most for years. One of roger ailes victims was a fight about. I never knew this had been something that happened to her until about her story in the new york times. And i knew it was true because i knew her. Talk to her about it after. But i was young the time of packwood, charlie wilson, and i think of some of the things, charlie wilson. Teach them to type but you cannot teach them to grow breasts. He used a more vulgar term. And i wanted to close with something that i just had somebody tell me recently. This is about a member who is here now. I do not know who it is. But someone who i trust told me the situation. As never asked a staffer to bring them over some materials to their residence. And the young staffer, the young woman whether they are and was greeted with a member in a towel. It was a man. We then invited her in. At that point, he decided to expose himself. She left and then she quit her job. She left, found another job. But that kind of situation, you know what are we doing here for women right now who are dealing with a body like that . Not this is really a much more complex situation than i think you know we need to have more training, no the violence that we are seeing at some of these, these are criminal. We get people into the criminal system when you have a crime. I would argue that probably is a crime in that situation. And how people know that and then, that we have a much Better Process so the person does not have to give up her career. I was listening to one of the victims of mark helprin. And she says that she was very strong and did not do anything but there are other women that left their desired profession altogether because of what had happened. And we cannot have that happen. Mr. Chairman, i really appreciate your giving us this opportunity and i will have more hearings. I think it is important that we do that. And that we hear more from the people who have been in the shadows. Thank you. The chair will now recognize congresswoman lofgren. For Opening Statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Theres no question the Sexual Harassment in the workplace including Congress Must be addressed. I want to think chairman harper and Ranking Member brady for todays hearing on this important subject. I want to think witnesses congressman Bradley Byrne and representative Jackie Speier for coming here before today to make improvements on policies and procedures for preventing Sexual Harassment as well as handling complaints with their file. Representative speier resolution, the seas act, for mandatory Sexual Harassment training is a step in the right direction. But as she and i had discussed, is not the end. We need to examine dispute processes and at the office of compliance to measure victims can expeditiously have their grievances heard. And i think this is especially important because Sexual Harassment is often about power. It is not just about sex. It is about abuse of power. And our hardworking staff and others need to have an advocate just as powerful on their behalf. Mandatory training is long overdue. Compliance has been recommended is for 20 years in the senate just unanimously passed a resolution mandating it last week it seems to me senator ted cruz and Elizabeth Warren can agree, we should also be able to agree on our side of the building. The Online Training is just a small start. Study after study shows that in person training is where you have the most progress and changing workforce behavior. We need to do a better job of advertising resources that are available. But we also need improvements in the process once people do make a complaint. I just want to make a special word about congresswoman Jackie Speier. Years ago, she and i were staffed, and patriots. We worked on the hill at the same time. She worked for congressman leo ryan and i worked for congressman edwards just south of that district. It was a wild and crazy time. And in many ways in our history we had the impeachment of richard nixon. The war and destruction and the light. But one of the things that jackie has talked about now and i give her so much credit, is the assault that she suffered. I think it is so important that she had the courage and grace and dignity and great to speak up about what happened to her. And i know that that has encouraged other people to step forward and know that they can speed up to. I want to thank jackie for being here today. For the lead that she has taken on this issue and so many others. She is a great lawyer, a terrific leader and not afraid of a darn thing thank you jackie. Congressman, i yield back the balance of my time. Anyone else on the republican side wishing to be recognized for Opening Statement . I recognize ms. Brooks for five minutes for an opening. , chairman and Ranking Member brady. I am pleased to be part of his hearing today. We know at the committee that the house does have problems with addressing both reported and unreported Sexual Harassment as just described by representative comstock. And the house Ethics Committee is committed to working with your committee to eliminate harassment that occurs through ensuring that our members and staff are trained and have better training. We need to ensure that we are protecting the victims of harassment when it does occur. Sexual harassment is strictly prohibited by our code of official conduct. Let me repeat that. Sexual harassment is strictly prohibited by the house code of official conduct. Something that the house Ethics Committee takes very seriously. For background, the house Ethics Committee we have two separate functions as they relate to Sexual Harassment. First we have been advice and education division. The attorneys and advice and education are trained when a person with a harassment issue to advise the person seeking advice to Contact Office of compliance. These discussions with our attorneys on the committee are strictly confidential. So i cannot report on the number of harassment instances raise with the committee. But i can report that the advice given is to educate the Advice Seeker on their options. The second function of our committee is to conduct investigations. When allegations are made and should someone be interested in initiating investigation, they can contact the house Ethics Committee investigation division. The committee and i personally shared this committees goals. Of protecting victims of harassment get a look into hearing ways we can improve the house generally and how we can ensure that we take the Lessons Learned from todays hearing and approve the house Ethics Committee processes as well. In closing, i would like to commend the three female members here have just shared and as we have learned all started as staffers. It is very important and i am pleased to be a part of this today. I was not a staffer here on the hill never worked on the health card to come to congress but i think it is very powerful at three of you were here. In many ways representing housestaff and now as strong voices on behalf of not only your districts but on behalf of the country as members. Thank you. I yelled back. The chair will now recognize the gentleman from maryland for Opening Statement. Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member brady, thank you for calling the hearing i also want to thank our distinguished witnesses for their leadership and perseverance in dealing with this issue. The nation is in and uproar today over Sexual Assault and harassment. From the students of liberal hollywood, studios of fox news, wall street, alabama, there is a tectonic shift taking place in womens unwillingness to put up with what prior generations of women were often forced to accept as business as usual. I believe the public generally has seen enough and wants action. In congress we must be leaders in changing a culture of Sexual Harassment and assault. Not just by what we say in legislation but by what we do in our own workplace. Justice brandeis once said our government is the potent time the omnipresent teacher for good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by his example. Mr. Chairman, Sexual Harassment at work is a pervasive problem that has been documented previously estimated that somewhere, anywhere from 25 percent to 85 percent of women have experienced Sexual Harassment in the workplace. Lets be clear that it is illegal. Whether it takes the form of quid pro quo Sexual Harassment or hostile Workplace Environments. It constitutes sex discrimination and degraded professional status and social position of women. To think that this body is somehow immune from Sexual Harassment of women would be nacve at best. At last count more than 1500 former staffers signed a petition directly calling on us to reform policies and at preventing Sexual Harassment and adjudicating complaints. My chief of staff spent most of her career on capitol hill says she did not know a single woman in her age group who has not experienced Inappropriate Conduct in the workplace. As businesses across the country face the responsibilities for creating harassment free workplaces we must do our part and lead by example in the public sector. A critical first step is requiring mandatory training. Just as we require ethics and cybersecurity training. I am a proud cosponsor speiers House Resolution 604, the congressional education about Sexual Harassment eradication resolution. I would urge the house to quickly move to adopt this measure as the senate did last week. Although this is an important place to start, mandating annual Sexual Harassment training is not sufficient. We must examine existing dispute resolution processes which recent instances suggest maybe acting still as a deterrent to reporting and resolving problems. Im eager to hear from Witnesses Today and what more can be done. I understand that there are multiple proposals that have been put on the table aimed at encouraging reporting and feedback, promoting healthy Workplace Environment and protecting staffers against retaliation. Im eager to and how we can Work Together in a completely bipartisan way to create a workplace essay for all employees and all americans can be proud of. Thank you. I look forward to the testimony today. Element from maryland yields back. Presented jackie chan eight serves on the House Committee of Arms Services as a Ranking Member of the subcommittee on military personnel. And on the House Permanent Select Committee on intelligence. She received her ba in Political Science from university of california in davis and a jd from representative Jackie Speier continues to be a tireless advocate for womens rights. We appreciate her efforts in raising awareness of Sexual Harassment and being with us today. Representative Bradley Byrne serves on the committee of Arms Services as well as education and workforce committee. After completing his undergraduate studies at duke university, presented byrne received his law degree from the university of Alabama School of law. He practiced labor and Employment Law in alabama for over 30 years. During representative byrnes practice, he advised multiple businesses on harassment policies, protocols and procedures and litigated numerous employment cases. He also has overseen multiple sexualharassment investigations over his many years of practice. The representatives Jackie Speier and byrne, the committee has received your written testimony. You will know each beginning a summary of the submission. And to help you keep time as youve done on the other end, you know how it works. Five minutes with one minute to go with time of it will go read. We certainly want to thank both of you for this time. The chair will now recognize representative Jackie Speier. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. Let me begin by saying how impressed i am with the seriousness which you are undertaking the issue. It is complex and it will be at times, uncomfortable. To deal with it. It is important to note that two out of three Sexual Assaults go unreported in the country. Often times, Sexual Harassment leads to Sexual Assault. Since i share my own story on me too ive had numerous meetings and phone calls with Staff Members both present and former peer women and men whod been subjected to this inexcusable and often times illegal behavior. In fact, there are two members of Congress Republican and democrat right now who serve, who have been subject to review or have not been subject to review but have engaged in Sexual Harassment. These harassment propositions such as are you going to be a good girl . Two bridge per traders exposing their genitals. Two victims having a private parts grabbed on the house floor. All they ask in return as Staff Members is to be able to work in a hostile frameWork Environment. They want the system fixed and the perpetrators held accountable. Ive been working on this issue since 2014. And believe there are three steps Congress Needs to take to fix the egregious and sometimes illegal behavior. The first step is to require Sexual Harassment prevention and response training every year for both members and staff. Just like ethics and cybersecurity training. The existing office of compliance online trading model is a start and some of you have pointed out but it is not adequate. Research has found that effective training requires inperson interactive instruction and dialogue. Visible change the house rules will achieve this result and is already legislation coauthored by many of you hr 604 and i give special thanks Ranking Member brady, representative costello, for the coleadership on the issue. Second, we cannot fix what we do not know. My experience working Sexual Harassment and Sexual Violence on College Campuses and academia and in the military, surveys are conducted regularly. That is why congress should institute a Congressional Climate survey every two years. Third, we must reform the broken dispute resolution system. The present system may have been okay in the dark ages. It is not appropriate for the 21st century. Under the current process as you see on the monitor, congressional employees are unaware or confused and at worst utterly betrayed. This chart shows the current process. First report the incident to the oc, then you have mandatory counseling for 30 days. After that you are required, and iorequired to sign a nondisclosure agreement before you even begin mediation. We then have mandatory mediation for 30 days. Additionally, the harasser and Members Office are represented by house of representatives counsel. Listen, how does that compute . Are provided free, legal counsel. The victim is not. I have also heard from mediators that they congressional processes atypical antivirus not have the option to be in separate rooms as the defendants counsel and that survivors are often addressed in an aggressive manner. Additionally, the fact that House Counsel works on behalf of the alleged harasser during mediation and then is charged with advocating to this committee for the Settlement Agreement on behalf of the survivors seems to be a conflict of interest. If the employee makes it this far, they then have to go through another 30 days of what they call a cooling off period so now 90 days has lapsed. And the employee is still required to work in that legislative office. Or else they are not eligible for services through the oc. Now, i might also point at this junction that interns and fellows do not even have this process to access. So they have nowhere to go. The after the cooling off. You can file a formal complaint in Federal District court we can have an administrative hearing for the negotiations, the settlement is approved and we move forward. For the few survivors that secure a settlement, there is no disclosure of the office involved or the amount of funding. Taxpayers foot the bill and this harasser goes on with their life. There is zero visibility zero transparency. During the process, the victim cannot even communicate that they are going for a ooc process to the family, friends or anyone in their religious community. It is really no wonder that steppers do not seek this process at all. Finally, as one of them said to me who i met with last week, i am a single mother. I cannot afford to lose my job. The thought of being blackballed in this institution, the thought of being somehow subject to reprisal, all of that has an effect. So i really feel that it is important for us to move forward not just with training but to move forward with a comprehensive reform of the office of compliance. But with your experience to lead us know what is happening in the private sector in the time he spent working on those cases a youre recognized for five minutes. [inaudible] [inaudible] in 1986 Sexual Harassment was violated. In to pass the Congressional Accountability Act and based on my Prior Experience to those current policies i would make a few observations with the suggestions. I strongly believe the mandatory Sexual Harassment training for all members and employees recent events show that while trading was available it is underutilized. I will also know that mandatory trading at the house is not unprecedented and already require a patch fix a of a Computer Security also palpable trainings provided by the congressional support office. It is my opinion this committee should settle on one to make sure all house employees are trained in same manner. Did consider a universal harassment policy for all house employees and although not required we should be enforcing antiharassment policies as xavier universal norm in product sector. Each Congressional Office has its own policies. Due to the unique nature it is my opinion the universal antiharassment policy that is applicable to all house members and employees would be much more effective in curbing unwanted Sexual Harassment than the differ harassment policies throughout the offices on capitol hill with the universal policy the trading would be simplified and made consistent across the house. We should examine the Congressional Accountability Act with the enforcement process. It has been over 20 years since congress had the accountability act is the opportunity for that statute that provision with the legislative branch are different than private sector or Public Private employees in those seven ministers or forces the discrimination of the eeoc investigates and the process is by that charge the eeoc has the option to request but it was not required for either party. But after the investigatory process but then allowing them to do that budding contrast the office of compliance has no authority in cannot prosecute harassment claims. So requiring mandatory council we should look to bring the process and authority in line with the equal the Employment Opportunity commission. That would to the interns in pages and fellows to the acts of antidiscrimination provision. And then to increase the workload need to be prepared. And increase number accountability. Given the constitutional nature of our offices it is not something where that can easily be applied. It is my opinion we must exercise our constitutional duty so we should adopt a specific policies to this type of behavior or the ones that we presently have to send a signal that it will not be tolerated as to report the answers incidence to the Ethics Committee. Well able to maintain monetary relief, personally i find it unacceptable as if a member of congress was found liable that they should be personally liable for such damages. Furthermore any payment at of treasury should be made that is fully transparent but given the inherent power differential between members and their staff, we should include a strict prohibition of those engaging in a sexual relationship. In closing i appreciate the opportunity with you to share the observations with the committee as necessary. With your experience we want to thank you as well. This is such an important issue, if you have given us much to think about through the review process. So with that, we will excuse you. We will now take just a moment to get this second panel in place. Spirit the Judiciary Committee has the attorneygeneral and oversight. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] savings to the witnesses on the second panel for coming and educate us says be discussed a very serious issue of how we will prevent Sexual Harassment in congress as we go forward. I would like to take a moment to introduce each of you. Currently serving as the chair of the board of directors of the office of compliance received her undergrad from purdue in 1973 and then from loyola in 77 and then with the highest honors in 1979. She has worked at since they to 83 in the field of labor law and in the 37 years of her experience she also served as the Mississippi Bar association we welcome you serving as counsel receiving be entered graduate degree from State University of new york and j. D. At George Washington prior to serving was handling employment what issues for a Large Telecommunications company and also served as an assistant Corporation Counsel as a special assistant with the district of columbia with prosecutions and as an eternity a journey for equal opportunity it commission. Each witness will have five minutes to give a summary of their submission and to help you keep the time the light will be green then turn yellow then read means stop. So now the chair recognizes for the purposes of Opening Statement ms. Childs wallace. Good morning chairman and Ranking Member and distinguished members of the committee of the House Administration is an honor to be here today not only the office of compliance the board of directors. The other members are from york and illinois and the district of columbia we were appointed to these parttime positions by the majority and minority leadership of both houses of congress that were required by the Congressional Accountability Act to each have professional expertise of the workplace laws that apply to the legislature by the cia all those in private practice have decades of experience within the private sector and the federal government with those discrimination issues for gore also requires without regard to political affiliation we have worked diligently in a nonpartisan manner to ensure the rights of all individuals working on the hill they are protected for also the members of our staff and many are not here today but there is a huge mandate which we accomplish with approximately 20 fulltime employees. They are equally committed to the task layout for us by the cia and also to fake the chairman was also my congressman from mississippi and from the chicago area by have practiced Employment Lawyer in jackson mississippi. Is nice to see a neighbor holding the gavel. Congress also testified treating our office in 1995 that was incorporated several workplace laws in the executive branch this act designates three primary responsibilities for the Office Although there are many other statutory functions performed in addition first we expect the Capitol Grounds the community is free from Occupational Safety and work hazards and second and especially pertinent we provide the alternative dispute for those seeking to assert their rights and also pertinent to the hearing our office maintains a robust Education Program about the life and responsibilities in protections under the act. In addition to those mandates reporting to Congress Every two years based on the labor and Employment Laws, since 2010 the board has advocated for those reports for mandatory trading on how to prevent the harassment or discrimination or retaliation of the entire legislative community. That is regularly performed in the private sector in the executive branch. It is of great satisfaction we see this Committee Response to the recommendation before the harassment can be corrected bin last understand the meaning of harassment and know how to avoid it. Consistent with that mandate within the legislative branch with harassment and discrimination to provide the best avenue to help transform the legislative branch into a model Work Environment where they can into the by example. This concludes my remarks i ask my extended statement submitted be included in the record for of a forward to any questions you might have thank you for your testimony youre now recognized for the purposes of an Opening Statement. I am one of the attorneys of the Employment Council basically the inhouse law Firm Available to members of congress separate from committees or house officers to provide counsel on the various issues under the Congressional Accountability Act and the question with Sexual Harassment. Says a partner to help understand the issue of Sexual Harassment in did the work place science very grateful to be here to have this opportunity to talk about the of resources basically we have three Core Functions to provide counseling, training and for presentation and litigation where the employees claim Sexual Harassment in the workplace. The way that will manifest itself that the Nonpartisan Office would be confidential protected by attorneyclient privilege. So to talk about these issues is a good model to ask the difficult questions and give them and vice and council how to address those issues talking about the legal issues but how the office can address issues and take appropriate corrective action to make sure that behavior stops. That corrective action can range from counseling counseling, training discipline up to and including termination. The other part of the role is to provide trading on a request basis and on a regular basis of officers and ig schedule mandatory training for all the employees and all the managers. In the schedule that directly with our office. We also do trading after there has been an issue of Sexual Harassment so as a followup to make sure this behavior doesnt happen again and also those that our proactive on these issues. Redo three types of treating. And his antiharassment training specifically for employees that is on a request basis to educate employees what Sexual Harassment is so we have video where we explain behavior and have a conversation so they can understand what they have seen and how that is of lawful and how they can report that behavior to management to be addressed. We also do sensitivity training that is broader because Sexual Harassment is under title seven of the Civil Rights Act of Sexual Harassment. So we discussed those broader issues in the context of that training. Lastly, trading for managers. In my view that is vitally important because managers have to navigate a lot of issues and how to handle Sexual Harassment. Not only those that are alleged harassment but also those who have been accused of harassment in the office does not properly investigate the issue that is conducted in a fair manner so if somebody is accused then they can also sue the office and lastly we do represent in litigation when the employee goes sometimes we know they will happen and they have done everything in their power to correct the issue and sometimes we dont know about it to do corrective action as well. Thanks for taking the time to be here and educate us with this critical review process to come up with a plan to make sure they do prevent future cases of Sexual Harassment and decrease your workload in the process. Saw it this time members have an opportunity to ask questions and i will begin by recognizing myself. Thanks for that incite with the office of compliance adjudication process. So i want you to describe the importance each step in the process how important is counseling in take . And white is confidentiality important . Counseling process is a misnomer it is not therapy to the person who was coming in or initiating their counseling step. People who come to us most likely are not lawyers in do not know the statutes necessarily. They need assistance whether or not their claims that within the context and to give you a very basic example so to be discriminated based on age the statute does occur everyone tell your 40 with age discrimination. And to let them know the law and also when our office can explain what those proceedings are. Is important to determine if they want to go that route. And that isnt meant to be a gag order. We dont call up to say the employee has called to see yes. The employee still has the ability to go out to talk to friends and neighbors to say my supervisor has done abc. With no contact the Employment Office it is confidential so they have a chias to learn the system with the 30 day period the law specifically says it can be cut short on the request of the employee. If the employee comes in to get the information that they need they say final know what i will do, counseling. It doesnt have to be a 30 day period. Talk about the mediation. I dont have the specifics but about 40 or 50 evolves during the counseling or mediation period. But the mediation process is very similar to mediation and what they have seen with the eeoc is not required that they attend. Because this is important for employees in the District Office. For those that they are accusing a Sexual Harassment. We have done countless mediation the private practice they could be in separate Conference Rooms i think it is a valued procedure, i dont know the legislative history, but we have seen that it works and it does not have to go 30 days but then they say this cannot be resolved. So with that training to do the in person Trading House that is done in the d. C. Office verses the District Office . Stereotypically with the office asks through training it is for the entire staff. The they will contact you and for example, do they contact you before regarding Sexual Harassment awareness . The doesnt always happen that way but typically it does. That is to get to the underlying issues. And then to take appropriate corrective action. Coming into that mediation phase have you been contacted before . I mentioned earlier that they know they will go to the office of compliance. And to take appropriate corrective action they would be insulated from the ability. This sometimes going to the office of compliance. And then the employee can waive that so we will find out about mediation. Sinecure recognize for five minutes. So with that antiharassment training can they speak follow that directly relates to a better working place . It is very important that employees understand russ sexualharassment is to have a right to come forward and not retaliated against that is what trading accomplices and gives them knowledge. Invariably that leads to complaints because that can be disruptive issue. But since 1996 she only ever had one situation the sexualharassment and they do many go unreported but she said a staffer in the office said something inappropriate she said if it happened again he book is his job. And then had a conversation with them. Often times they are addressed at the earliest possible age. I agree with everything that was read. The one thing i do want to add to it is training is yet another opportunity to tell the employees here is where you go if you have a problem. There is an entity called the office of compliance. One of the things we are hearing so much in the media is people in health dont know who the office of days. If there is a trainer in front of you that says this is where you go to make a complaint, theres no reason why any employee on the hill shouldnt know who we are and where we are located and how to. I would like to correct one thing in the mediation process that is a 30 day period that cannot be waived and i miss spoke on. On. Most of the complaints filed with the office or such as the cao. I think that training done in private practice and indicated the same thing it can be a dialogue and it can be talking about what is and is not appropriate. One thing that needs to be understood as there is illegal Sexual Harassment. If they can ruin the morale of the office, and i think that the training, in person training in particular can go into those areas of what is illegal and inappropriate for this office. Having the universal policy is very interesting so everybody is working on the same page and Everybody Knows even in the office where you go to complain within your office but also a necessary component has to be what the purpose is in the whole process. It is important to have written policies and there is a model of Sexual Harassment policy that is made available to help the offices. We work with the Committee Staff to develop that and that policy basically sets out a zero zero tolerance for this type of behavior and the employees consequences that they do participate but the training is vitally important when we do training, in person training it is amazing to see how men and women have different reactions that they view. And that is why it is problematic in that behavior. I will yield about mr. Chairman. Back mr. Chairman. I would ask the witnesses to pull the microphone closer to you we are having some background noise and the chair will now recognize mr. Davis for the purpose of questions for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman and Ranking Member for holding this hearing. And i would like to thank my colleague, bradley, somebody that practiced Employment Law in alabama. Many of the comments in his opening testimony were well stated and a powerful testimony from my colleague. Then the Opening Statements with barbara and suzanne, thank you for the testimony and comments. To continue to professionalize the house and establish the workplace grounded in the respect. Therethere is the potential arf the policies that need improvement and in the areas you suggest we need to make better. My first question for both of you is it is important that we get this right and i have a female staff i ask them their opinion. They are concerned some offices with unintended consequences may be that some offices may just take a shortcut and not hire women as a way to avoid these issues. How do we ensure we use the moment to work towards the Sexual Harassment while also continuing to make the capital employment in place for the professionals . One of the things that is tremendous is to see the women as members. I am not concerned about that with the strong fantastic women that we have as members and i think there is a great wealth of experience and talent out there and i would certainly hope thats what not to be a consequence of harassment training. My office has had a discussion. We have hear heard that and hade discussions with our client to remind them that is unlawful. Unlawful. Individuals should be hired based on the merits without regards to gender. But again, i think it is important to have training. I keep coming back to that and we do training on the technique and others as well. That it is unnecessary with respect to that issue. Thank you both. Ms. Wallace, what challenge do they carry out for the educational duties and for example, i am a former district staffer. How do they reach out to the District Office and how can we as a committee be helpful . One of the recommendations that we have made every other year is with our regards to these posters, we are required by statute to develop posters. These are the kind that are posted in the workplaces in the executive branch and the private sector. We handed them out and there is no law that requires anybody in congress to post these notices. They are a notice of right and they also talk about the oc. These can go in the District Offices. We do training with other outside organizations through im blanking on the name of the organization that does training in the District Offices and also the online modules of training that we have that we have been developing and are continuing to develop more and more. If an employee in office conducts an internal investigation what role do they play during the investigative process and further internal investigations that are resolved . I think you mentioned some without using the process. When in Office Contacts us on Sexual Harassment, we work with the office to conduct the investigation and give them materials and that they require of the instructions on how to conduct an investigation, but we work with them every step of the way. Some offices they are very comfortable in the investigations and when i say investigations in some instances it may be talking to the employees and finding out what happened so we will help them get the independence of the investigator and get to the bottom of whats going on and report to the office and then we will work with that office to figure out the appropriate action. Let me ask you whether or not you end up representing the hairdresser in the mediation or not. Our client is the Employment Office so we never represented individuals. At the end of the day, someone is accused of harassment, but they are not our client, that is the Employment Office of the member with a committee or the health office. Lets say a member is being accused of Sexual Harassment you are representing the member, correct lex the office which sometimes can be the member, yes. Do you think that is appropriate . I think it is appropriate given the role of the inhouse law firm we are no different than a private sector company. They have their own lawyers to represent them in the standards and under the Congressional Accountability Act, they are supposed to experience the same thing as the employers, so the situation is analogous. Representing for discussion purposes say the member, it is your job to try and resolve this so that the member is kept hold and none of it becomes public. Do you find yourself saying to the victim if you pursue this, your position on capitol hill is over. My office would never say that the victim. My role is to assist the office of the bottom of what is going on and take appropriate action. We have had a couple of cases where they were accused of her husband an and there are correce steps that can be taken to make sure the member act appropriately in those circumstances. Our office doesnt have the ability to discipline a member but certainly the Ethics Committee does. If you settle a case between a member and staff member is never goes to the Ethics Committee, correct . How would it go to the Ethics Committee . They can contact the Ethics Committee. And they can kiss their job on capitol hill but by. Certainly we assure we have the Employment Office and sure any employee that raises the claim they will not be retaliated against because if they are retaliated against thee office can be sued for retaliation. If they are no longer employed by the house of representatives, then ive been told thi that ths office is not available to them. I dont have that information. What percentage of your mediation is between the members and staff . I cant hear because of the background noise. What percentage of the mediation is between the member and staff versus the staff and staff . The mediation concern staff when it involves the member for those occasions have occurred. We have been told that if you are accusing someone of Sexual Harassment that you are acquired via the same room and its only in cases of Sexual Assault can be in separate rooms. That is not true you are not required to be in the same room. I can tell you for my office typically we dont take the alleged harasser. If we find them to be more productive if we take someone else from the office in the management, someone who is familiar with the underlining issues i dont find it to be particularly productive to have an alleged harasser across the table from each other so that is and how we approach it. Have you ever counseled someone so that if they dont want to be in the same room, the legitimacy would be called into question . Can you give me that one again . Have you ever said to someone who is an accuser that in so doing it would cause you to wonder about the legitimacy of their complaint i do not recall ever doing that. It is up to the employees council to make the decision about whether or not they want them to be in the room so it isnt my call. Thank you for the question. I also appreciate the testimony of my colleagues and the very detailed additional things we can do that the congressman laid out and one was giving them the members and the senior staff strict guidelines for taking the example we dont have the guidelines right now that say to the member the relationship of a 19yearold in turn is off limits. Is that at all clear right now . I havent seen that in some of the materials. The chief of staff cant. It doesnt say you cannot have this in our office. I am not aware of anything that says that specifically. As someone alluded to, the code of conduct says a member and staff should conduct themselves in a manner that impacts the house would be relevant in the context, but i dont know of any specifics. For any seinfeld fans of the George Costanza got fired because he didnt know that it was inappropriate to have sex with staff on the desk. That is something that we need to make clear from the member on down. Wouldnt you agree it creates a hostile Work Environment if there is that kind of relationship in the office . To say go find another job, not everyone can do that. But if she happened gone along with this, then that is creating a hostile Work Environment. I would hope that an employee would feel comfortable complaining to whomever would be appropriate in those circumstances. The way the model handbook policy is written, the employees were asked to report either the immediate supervisor or anyone in management with whom they feel comfortable making that complaint. And i appreciate you highlighting how the videos and the interconnectedness of having people together i do think that is an important aspect of what we need here. Others have materials and perhaps it would be good for us to get more examples if you can provide us some of the things the other agencies and private sector are doing. I think that would be helpful as we look at this and then i also wanted to ask about the suggestions as an ombudsman i think it gets to some of the questions your job is for the congress has told to be at this point and we are looking at how we might change that but if we are looking to have an ombudsman who is that support person and then it could be someone who says maybe this is a criminal case and you dont need mediation here. You need to go and deal with this legally or here is the process if you go through and you were to go to the dea should or do these thing and have somebody that is that victims advocate. If thats something you have seen in other workplaces could the nature of the workplace might be helpful . I have seen it in others. When there are criminal cases here, and i know i mentioned as an interim staff when you hear criminal activity that went on, people that would not go forward because they were afraid to come is that something that we tell people it is criminal, but letting them know all the things that are actually going o on so they feel like they are not alone and can go forward. I can say for our office their role is to provide legal advice and guidance under the congressional accountability a act. When somebody is out with the boss this happened and it was my fault, no, that wasnt your fault. With the gentle lady yield . One of the components that would be introduced represented by the special Victims Counsel much like in the military now, we have created that mechanism for the victims of Sexual Assault. Somebody sort of having that intermediary determination like heres all the different places you can go come here is the crying but also have somebody to talk it out with before we decide what to do so they feel like they are covered more in some way. It can be one day or one hour, but im not convinced that it protects the victim at all. The chair will not recognize the gentleman from North Carolina for five minutes. Thank you for this important issue i would like to thank my colleagues for their earlier testimony. Im grateful to stand with such advocates to make the house thee representative sampling respectful in a safe environment for the colleagues. This type of behavior should never be tolerated here or any other Work Environment. I think we should lead by example and set the tone for the nation and in leading by example, i was encouraged by the chairman to strongly encourage the men are us of the committee so we have gone certainly our entire staff and im also the chairman of the committee so all 20 staffers as well as isaf have gone through some productive training and i hope that will lead to even more. Earlier this month the board of director wrote to the speaker of the house and the pro tem from antidiscrimination and antiprogress in training. His mandatory training the most effective deterrent to the problem of sexualharassment . It is one component of it. Mandatory training is one very important component of trying to stop this. Is it the most effective component of this . Probably mandatory training. Letting people know who we are and where they can go is important and then the leadership from the top as to what is appropriate and what is not appropriate. We cant give you an exact number but it is in the report that we recommend this. Did the earlier prompts and concerns get this moving . I wasnt on the board until 1999 so prior to that, i cant tell you necessarily. We do have records and if the committee would like, we can go back and look at all of the reports and give you the exact dates that we made this recommendation. In your opinion what can be made to the ad adjudication act . Thats what seems to be happening and i think that it is a very effective process we have lots of cases that are resolved in that process. I think the statistic is 85 of employment cases are resolved before the fullblown litigati litigation. I believe in this process. I mentioned this before that once someone goes to the office of complaints and we engage in mediation, we may be hearing about the problems for the first time. But we do an investigation and we get to the bottom of what is going on and we make recommendations through the office for corrective action so the process is mandated by the statute and i think it works very effectively to address the issue of Sexual Harassment just as it does for other forms of discrimination. Thank you for your responses. Chair will now recognize the gentleman from nebraska mr. Smith for five minutes. Thank you Esther Charan into the witnesses as well for bringing insight and expertise to these issues. We talked a lot about the prevention of preventative measures and the candor that should be taken to. I appreciate you asking that question and we can put it in the context of the office of compliance. Its important that we obtain the funding to add what we figure its probably three more to help us do the training so that is one thing. And also helped with the it process. We are a very, very small office. Other things i think that the training that both of us do those are the resources that are just essential. For my office, we did a lot of training and weve gotten a lot of requests in the last several weeks. Training here in the District Office, we ramped up the training efforts. That seems to be working very well to get that accomplished. Thank you mr. Chairman. The gentleman yields back and we will recognize the congresswom congresswoman. You talked about the large majority involved staff on staff issues. Can you share with us at what point in the process the member is informed when a staffer comes to initiate the process when is the member prop into the process lacks member is brought into the process from the very beginning. Because if an employee goes into the supervisor management, thats when it goes up the chain of command and the member will be informed. So we get calls from the chief of staff. If a staffer had come in directly, would you call the member if it involved the chief of staff . We dont talk directly to the staffers. That is not our role. If a staffer calls, we essentially will encourage them to go back to the management because the management can address a lot of these issues. If you get that inquiry from a staff member and you do not hear from anyone after that, does anything have been . We do followups to let them know that we heard from someone and there may be an issue in their office to look at. You both mentioned the large percentages of the resolutions. Resolutions prior to the litigation. Can you give us example of the resolutions . I can speak to that. If there is an allegation that a coworker is making inappropriate statements wer or inappropriate texts or emails or things of that nature, we will have them talk with both the person who is complaining about the behavior and the harasser and then figure out the appropriate steps to address the behavior and that could include counseling and training we do that quite a bit actually. It could be training for the staff and it may also include some type of disciplinary action to reprimand to suspension without pay and termination. Thank you. Anything else that you would like to add with respect to the resolution . If we look at it not necessarily in the harassment context but if someone said im not afforded the same kind of training as the males in my office it could be as easy as once the employer is informed about what they said h it they t know you wanted it. Lets get you on the next training on this and that is a simple resolution that doesnt require a payment of money. It could be changing whos your supervisor is moving you to a different position, the alleged harasser. An important part of the resolution is to get back to the person who complained to let them know that the office has taken them very seriously and looked into this banner and has taken appropriate action to make sure it stops and reminds that t individual but they cannot be retaliated against and if there is a hint of retaliation that they should come back to the management to take care of it. Since im representing the committee in many ways, can you mention improvements you might make relative to the house Ethics Committee and do you inform the complainant of the option . Is pursuing the allegation that the Ethics Committee . I have to admit im not as familiar with the ethics procedures. I do know that if someone goes to the Ethics Committee and wants to make a complaint they are most likely directed to the office which i do believe is appropriate but i would welcome any kind of coordination between the Ethics Committee and the office of compliance. I think that would be wonderful on this issue. One thing i would also like to say in the context, we dont want to limit the training or the ethics wor workstation to jt Sexual Harassment area there are other kind it is the issue of the day and the most important one, but there is harassment that occurs in other contexts whether it is racial, disability harassment, that the training should also address to try to stop. Nothing excites us more than the fact congress right now is looking at this issue from the standpoint of Sexual Harassment. Any recommendation with respect to ethics one of the things that was mentioned as th is the idea thae would be a record of the employees having taken Sexual Harassment training so i think that would be a great idea to coordinate with your committee to make sure that those records are maintained to show that employees have the training. I agree with that 100 . I wa would like to thank the congresswoman for joining us today for this hearing. Its been helpful to have your participation. Without objection all of the members will have five legislative days to set africand ten questions. I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here today. I knows it i know this is a nect step to improving the process to address sexualharassment. The committee will continue to review the testimony given today and work with members to make additional organizations to strengthen the process to ensure that the Congressional Workplace that includes not only the members of congress and their offices but includes all of the officers of the house, the architect, the Capitol Police all of these things have to be included, Congressional Budget Office and office of compliance. All of these things are included when Congress Passed the act. This type of behavior cannot be tolerated so i believe raising the awareness today we should start there because of the standard and i hope that this is the first step to getting there. Without objection i will recognize mr. Brady. I just want to Say Something to my colleagues from californ california. You said this is an uncomfortable thing for us to do. I have a wife and a daughter, two granddaughters and a great granddaughter. Its not uncomfortable, it is our obligation to protect somebody elses wife, daughter and granddaughters, so i think you. Thank you and i would associate myself with the remarks that you just made. Without objection, the hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] wearing military camouflage with heavy emblem right here and embroidered across his head or the knights of the ku klux klan and on his head he had a handgun and he came in and was followed right behind him by mr. Kelly and the grand dragon. When they entered the room and turned the corner and saw me he just throws. He bumped into his back and they regained his balance and they knew what they were