on the home mortgage deduction and its benefits for high income households. conversation on facebook and twitter. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning. it is monday, october 23, 2017. the house of representatives returns today at noon for the morning hour and 2:00 p.m. for legislative business. the senate is in session today. we will spend our opening session today hearing from you about your trust and confidence in the nation's major institutions, including the three branches of government don't schools, unions, the military, police, and others. we want to know which institutions you trust now and why. give us a call. republicans (202) 748-8001. democrats (202) 748-8000. independents (202) 748-8002. you can also catch up with us on social media. wj, ander at c-span facebook.com. what u.s. institutions do you trust? that is our question for the first hour. you can start calling now. we show you a recent gallup survey report on american confidence in u.s. institutions, noting american confidence in major u.s. institutions has edged up in 2017 after registering the store schools, organized labor in particular have improved in u.s. esteem. adults say they have the most confidence in the military, as has been typical is the 1980's. americans have almost much confidence in small business as they do in the military. confidence levels drop off substantially after those two, with only one other institution, the police getting a rating over 50%. two institutions have ratings below 20%, congress last on the list, and news on the internet at 16%. you whato hear from u.s. institutions you trust. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats (202) 748-8000. independents (202) 748-8002. we will be spending our opening our on this topic. a few headlines on the issue of trust from a selection of news organizations from washington and around the country. a recent poll, a majority of americans don't trust trump through global crisis. believeity of americans u.s. media makes up stories about donald trump. another from the washington examiner, here is a headline, americans don't trust anymore. that is a big problem, she writes, and she asks who do we trust? it appears no one. we have been disillusioned by everything that was supposedly there to lift us up, even icons like bill cosby. hollywood is always making fun of about 5% of the country, and politics has invaded -- 65% of the country, and politics has invaded everything. while not intellectually healthy, it is no wonder people have started consuming their information, entertainment, and news from people just like them. misinformation at an alarming rate. that column in the washington examiner from earlier this month. we are asking you, what u.s. institutions do you trust? jeff, rhode island, line for republicans. go ahead. caller: good morning. 90%, and this is the only one i trust, the u.s. military, general dunford, people like that. they are men of honor and bravery. everything else i do not trust. take for example, how could the u.s. government, if you go way back into the 1940's, be aligned with joseph stalin? back i was worse than hitler's. -- hitler. we never hear that. stalin made him look like a choir boy. kept why has the military your confidence all this time? what have they done? aller: for example, i have first cousin who was a west point grad, 1982. he headed up the division of tanks. he's a very bright guy. they sent him to stanford to get a masters degree in international relations. they are generally people who give of themselves, and they are brave. like a lot of other people, they do a lot of talking, but they are cowardly. the people in hollywood, they are all part, no bite. -- bark, no bite. it is sad what is happening in this country. the media don't put out -- china put out a 30 year plan to become the number one economic and military superpower by the year 2050. i will be dead and gone by then. i really believe that is going to happen. i do. host: that is jack in rhode island. rebecca is in maryland. line for democrats, go ahead. i have got to hit the button. there you go. caller: i feel like i him in a good position to speak about government because i teach social studies. i am no expert, but i have a lot of confidence in our judicial system with ginsberg, and always have. i believe pretty much in everything she stands for. i am greatly concerned about our executive branch. my students are as well. i hear the things they say and what their parents are saying, and they just have the confidence. i also belong to a union. i strongly believe in unions. their hands are tied, and they can only do so much for host: you say your students lack trust in the presidency, i want to know why? caller: they don't think that donald trump is a very ethical person. doesn't concerned he care about the environment. they are concerned he doesn't care about the poor and immigrants. host: how do they feel about congress? why the focus on the president? caller: they don't really -- they don't really think about the congress as much as they think about the president. the president is a big topic at home. i will be teaching them more about that this year. host: thanks for calling in this morning. dylan is in pennsylvania, line for republicans. what u.s. institutions do you trust? caller: good morning, john. how are you? host: i am doing well. caller: two primarily come to mind, the media, and within the framework of the constitution, freedom of the press. that being said, also an independent judiciary. i am not a supporter of trump at all. i'm concerned about these have beenns that pillars of our democracy for decades and hundreds of years, fortunateactually enough to be a student years ago in washington, d.c., and i met -- and i said, i thought the most important element of our constitutional right is freedom of the press because we would about ournow anything constitution if there was not a free press to disseminate that information to us. i just wanted to say that this morning. host: newspapers among respondents to the gallup survey among those who said they had quite a bit of confidence in newspapers in 2017, 27%, that is in 2016.0% from back let me take you to a few other u.s. institutions. 12% in 2017. the presidency at 32% in 2017. the supreme court at 40% in 2017. a few of the other institutions, business, a very big difference between the business and small business. respondents, 21% of saying they had a great deal of confidence. 70% said they had quite a bit of confidence in small business. when it comes to church, 41% said they had confidence. you also talked about free press and the media, news on the internet 16% expressing confidence in news from the internet. television news at 24%. we will take you through more of the numbers. they are broken down by republicans and democrats as well. we will go through that in the first hour of "washington journal." what institutions do you trust? mike is in new jersey, line for independents. caller: good morning. how are you today? host: i am doing well. caller: i think the republicans and democrats are in cahoots at the highest level. check -- the fiance in peons in check. i don't think we have a solution. us kkathy they project to dos us where we cannot nothing. host: john, oregon. go ahead. caller: i absolutely don't trust in democrats or the republicans, anything. the judicial system is shot. howpolice system -- look at they have improved, none. the military, you can just trust them to steal money and give it away. they have broken all trust. they have, with the people. they can all go to hell. they're going to be joining us just later. host: how can they get it back? candidate at this point? point?they at this caller: they have to clear out their corruption. start putting bankers and the rich into jail. start holding people to account. there is none. they're just running amok out there. ony are just crapping anything else left. over a creeping death everything. it is like -- it is evil. it is sickening. host: what can the people do? do you have any optimism? caller: burn it down and start over. take capitalism and bury it. that is a good start. that has to be the beginning. host: john in oregon this morning. his question on our facebook page as well, and comments coming in from twitter. writes, no institutions, everyone is corrupt, term limits and salary caps. get their own medical insurance the way we have to. rebecca says no confidence in any institutions with the exception of president trump. since all institutions seem to be against income that's a clear indicator he is on the side of the american people. carol, the brilliance of our founding fathers, the framers, has never been more clear. you can join the conversation on facebook, on twitter, or give us a call. republicans (202) 748-8001. democrats (202) 748-8000. independents (202) 748-8002. charles, jacksonville, florida, line for democrats. what u.s. institutions do you trust? caller: i don't know. i'm kind of confused about what is going on in washington. i think if we don't wake up, we are feeling. -- failing. i listen to so many things, the destruction that the hurricanes have done, and i listen, and i have not heard one word about california and the horribleness about what is happening out there. nobody seems to care. what is happening to this country? too much disrespect from what i have seen. host: have not heard of it from who? elected leaders, the news industry? caller: it appears that whatever is going on now is whatever they can gain from whatever they say. host: here is a photo and headline and story in today's wall street journal about trying to rebuild after the wildfires in california. santa rosa residents plan to rebuild, but a long road lies ahead to replace 3000 homes there. two individuals digging for belongings in the remains of their home. tennessee, line for republicans. caller: i don't trust nobody. i am tired of donald trump. i voted republican. i have been nothing but let down by the way he is, the way he acts. what part of government do we trust? the american people don't even know where to go. --[inaudible] who can we trsut? -- trust? host: jim, new york, line for independents. go ahead. caller: i trust social security. i get my check every month without a problem. i used to work for the merchant marine academy in kings point. i used to get my check all the time. they do a good job, that part of the government. i never missed a check. i don't really trust that merchant marine academy. i put in 18 years there and had to leave because what i consider hypocrisy. the people out there in the working world and see where their tax dollars are going, they would not believe it. it is an unbelievable waste of money sometimes. the government is good for the economy. they spent a lot of money on a lot of things we really don't need. that is all i have to say. host: like what? what are the things we don't need? caller: for instance, in the labs, i was a lab instructor at the merchant marine academy, and they had an atomic absorption photo spectrometer that i had just fixed. it cost 30,000 dollars. that was a few years ago. as soon as i fixed it, they went out and bought a new one. they don't even use it. no one ever uses it. it is all smoke and mirrors, a lot of the stuff that goes on in the government. i'm sure there is a lot of people saying listen to this guy, he knows what is going on. they are good for the economy because they by this stuff, and it makes jobs. pick your poison. ok. host: that is jim in new york. god,writing in, i trust my president trump, and the u.s. military. everything else is suspect. great says, unions are a example of representative democracy. mary says, i cannot think of an institution i trust right now. i have been let down by all of them, unions, democratic party, city, state. carol says i was taught to always respect those in the military and police, and from then on whenever i saw one, i think then. what u.s. institutions do you trust? military, police, medical system, banks, all of those gallup in their polling of confidence in u.s. institutions. we want to hear from you your thoughts on what institutions you trust. republicans (202) 748-8001. democrats (202) 748-8000. independents (202) 748-8002. mike, maryland, line for democrats. go ahead. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: i'm doing well. caller: which institution to our trust? none. i think when we blindly trust anything, we set ourselves up for disappointment and if the. i trust -- defeat. i trust in the heart and spirit of the american people. if we would take all of our style in ourck one -- child, within 21 years we have a power to make a change in anything politically. we choose which representative we want to run and for everything we have into this child and make them the best candidate. host: what would be the best way to do taht? -- that? visit through organized religion, individuals doing it on their own? caller: all of the above. take the best qualities you have child, go into the community, volunteer, whatever it takes, but give what we have back to the next generation. often we find ourselves criticizing the next generation, and we are not taking what we have and pouring it back in. we are doing ourselves a disservice. host: are you doing that in your community in laurel? caller: no, but i am in baltimore city. host: how so? caller: i am a minister. i also do a lot of volunteer work within the community. talkingke, when you are to people in your ministry, is there a lack of trust now? is it greater or less than it has been in the past? caller: there is definitely a lack of trust, but more so it is a lack of guidance. it is fine not to trust something, but where do you focus that energy? if we stay in one place and do not move forward, we are stuck. as long as we are determined to do better, we will do better. host: appreciate the call from maryland this morning. column from usa today from earlier this month, anthony marx and jamie woodson, we have gone from healthy skepticism to crippling cynicism. there is a wide disparity of a opinions on what has -- opinions on what has caused this trend. from our different perspectives, we agreed the news media can play a crucial role. media, once seen as providing a common set of facts, has atomized in the digital age to wear everyone can find their own set of facts. large swaths of the information landscape are occupied by misinformation given by politics, profit, or propaganda. the proliferation of media outlets, the proclivity by some to write nobly false stories, the expansion of advertisement, politicization of the news and polarization within society are just a few of the phenomenons fostering mistrust. the john and james night foundation has partnered with the society program to create a commission on trust, media, and democracy. anthony marx, president of the new york public library, and jamie woodson a former senator. trust, we're talking about this morning for the first segment of "washington journal." what u.s. institutions do you trust? helen, indiana, line for republicans. what do you think? caller: there are two that i trust. number one is the true christian church. the reason is because the bible prophecy, which makes up 28% of isaiah, godnd in told the jews, there is no god like me, telling the end from the beginning. referring to prophecy. i also trust sean hannity on fox news. he has been correct 99% of the time. i certainly appreciate c-span. thank you. host: fred, alabama, line for independents. caller: good morning. how are you? host: doing well. caller: i'm taking a break on commenting from the presidency. i said i'm going to give him a year. the only thing i trust is the military. i want to trust the police, but there are some things that arrive that are puzzling me. the military, i only trust about 70% because even the military now is getting some people from this crazy world that are not quite legit. i am going to watch a little longer and see how everything goes on. after one year, one year, i am going to call in and give you an assessment of what i think. host: before you go, on the issue of trusting the military, and issue came up last week in one of the white house press briefings about criticizing generals, whether it is appropriate to criticize u.s. generals. what do you think on that topic? caller: generals have a unique position. they are military, and when they retire, they become civilians. they tried to play a line between the two, and it does not always work. i don't trust nor distrust them. i have to look into it and see what is going on. i respect the generals. i loved the ones i served with. they are honorable. betweentough thing military life and civilian life. i tip my hat to them for trying to do. host: retired army general david petraeus this week asked about whether it was appropriate to debate a four-star general. [video clip] >> i think we are all fair game. i experienced that on capitol hill during the surge in iraq and during afghanistan central command and support. protect the rights of others to criticize us frankly. i remember opening the new york urge, anding the s there was a full-page ad attacking me personally. i did not appreciate it personally, but at the end of the day we are fiercely protective of the rights of other americans to express themselves, even if that includes criticizing us. host: this morning on "washington journal," questions for you about what u.s. institutions you trust. texas, independent. go ahead. good morning. caller: good morning. i trust our original founding principles, the original intent of our constitution, and our responsibility to hold elected representatives at all levels of government to protect and defend the constitution. james madison said the citizens of the united states are responsible for the greatest trust ever confided to the political society. thehey don't tend to it, rights of human nature will be turned against them, and their patrons and friends exposed to be insulted and silenced by tyranny and usurpation. if we don't tend to our government's business, we are doomed to what we deserve. host: how should we tend to the government's business? do you think people are not listening to enough news? are they not listening in the right way? are they not reacting? caller: i am so glad you asked that question. forfounders implored us eternal vigilance. here in texas, we have a public calendar that lists every meeting of the 27 elected officials in the county of where s or are holding their court city council meetings or school boards or esd's, rma's, whatever so that people can go there and see how those elected people are operating and make sure that they are operating according to the constitution. in january,saturday we are teaching a class on the constitution. i try to teach it more and more every day. our problem is our elected following thenot constitution. it has happened for 5000 years. america is the first time in history where we the people are the sovereign's responsible for running the government. we are being usurped by the natural inclination of man to assume power and more power, and i don't know. the constitution and all the founding documents are very clear. host: how did you get involved in teaching that class? have you found people more interested in that topic in recent years? caller: absolutely. one of the guys that is on the texas freedom caucus in our texas legislature, and we have got others. we will be teaching at one of our county offices on the last saturday in january. listening to christian hall, who has been on c-span a number of times, knows the constitution and the original intent forward and backwards. ted cruz memorized it when he was 14 years old. it seems that providence is leading me to be involved in this somehow. i think -- if we look at every problem we have at the federal level, it is all because those guys are doing things that are outside of their enumerated powers defined in the constitution. everything else is left to the states or we the people. now is the original intent. if somehow we can get there with prayer and activism and responsibility, we may have a slim hope of recovering the liberty that our founders leave for us. this the call from texas point. eric, line for democrats. go ahead. caller: good morning. i cannot say of one government agency i am more fond of them the next. thatpeople need to realize 99% of the people working in government are fine people like you. they work. they tried to do a good job, but they are not elected officials. they are not decision-makers. if you have a problem with one bethe government agencies, upset at the people you elect, the people you appointed. most of the government is normal, everyday citizens trying to do a good job but the rest of us in our careers. host: two you know any federal employees in georgetown, kentucky? caller: not really. i have had family that have worked for the government. they were employees. they went to work. they did their job. they tried to be good at what they did like anybody else. host: speaking of employees and employers, do you trust big businesses and small businesses in this country? caller: that is kind of the same way. you have got a lot of people who own businesses. they want to sell a good product, treat their employees fair.you have people that are just about of buck at the expense the consumers, their employees, they just want to further themselves with no real regard for anything else. host: thank you for the call. back-to-back gallup poll -- back to that gallup poll. republicans and democrats essentially flipped with confidence ratings in the presidency this year. 46 pointss surged while democrats fell 39 points. the same in the supreme court. republican confidence jumped 11% this year after trump appointed neil gorsuch while democrats stayed exactly the same. democrats this year expressed significantly higher levels of confidence in newspapers than they did last year while republican confidence state the same in much lower than democrats. what institutions do you trust as we have been going through that gallup poll from over the summer? you can find that on their website if you want to. lisa is in california, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you so much for what you do at c-span. i appreciate it. i want to say i have a nonprofit called global government, and that is the only organization i trust. i created a website that is called top ten new laws. them i would like to pass is to house the homeless worldwide. that is done by getting a reduction from the u.s. defense from $1 billion from each of the multibillion aires as well as from religious organizations. there was a citizens arrest by the safety officer named ron sign because i carried a that said house the homeless. i did not impede traffic. i did not disturb service. i was simply there to raise awareness. that church and none of the religious organizations i have called, and i have called many, contribute one penny to house the homeless. host: why and how did you get involved in this work? caller: pretty much all of my life. i went to uc santa barbara, i studies,gree in legal i wanted to be a lawyer, but i did not get in. my gpa was not so great when i was 22. i have always been passionate about the homeless, the fact that they need rehabilitative housing to go back to work. most of them need detox, medications, so forth. they cannot get a job. host: lisa in california this morning. she mentions the u.s. military budget, subject of the lead editorial in today's new york times. wars, theforever editorial asking how many foreign entanglements will the public tolerate, and why has congress then a wall from this -- awol from this debate? u.s --howing the few few countries around the world where there is not an active u.s. military presence. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: doing well. caller: i am a democrat in the sense that i live in a democratic society. i do not belong to the democrat party. do i trust any form of government or any of the three branches? host: not just government, business, organized religion, media, u.s. institutions in general. what do you trust? why do you trust them? caller: i am a 28 euros mail. -- 28-year-old male. i did some time in the military. my government class is teaching me i live in a representative democracy, republic, and the political power flows from the people to the political elite. we the people are the government. i think this inherent distrust in government we have seen as the textbooks point out shows how you do not trust yourself. i have to inherently trust government, when it comes to religion and corporations and stuff like that, i don't necessarily lend my willingness to trust them. host: how could they earn your trust? caller: ha. i think, like anything else, transparency. by nature of their work, they are unable to be transparent. i guess you could argue the same for some corporations with trade secrets and stuff like that. transparency never hurts. host: the military is one of those branches of government that has the most trust, one of the u.s. institutions that traditionally has always had the most trust. not necessarily the most transparent as is the nature of the military, why do you think it has garnered so much trust over the years? caller: having just watched the ken burns documentary series about the vietnam war and having picked up tim o'brien's book the things they carried them i think he points to a lot of good things about war stories and how war stories are never moral. he has a lot of good insights. as a combat veteran, it is worrisome that people trust an organization that by its very nature is secretive. we could get into some deeper debates into masculinity and that crisis that is there any projection of power and people wanting to be drawn to that. this is obviously theoretical stuff, but i don't know why people -- host: go ahead, finish your thought. caller: war by its very nature is a very immoral thing. why you would be looking at them for a moral high ground is beyond me. i'm not here to argue whether we should be at war, whatever, whatever. i'm just saying that at its nature, war is immoral. host: you mentioned the ken burns series on the vietnam war. c-span's american history tv recently interviewed senator john mccain about the vietnam war from about his service. here are some comments from that interview that have gotten a lot of attention in the last 24 hours. [video clip] >> it was a very gradual escalation, which not only did not harm the end of the -- ene my, but it strengthened their resolve. that led to all kinds of implications in repercussions in the new age, the use of drugs, demonstrations. right here on the small there was -- this mall, there was a million people. it's really split our society in a way that we sometimes forget. mass arrests, demonstrations, chicago, all of us can look back and see on c-span. it was a tumultuous time, and most of it was bred by the conflict. one aspect of the conflict that isill never countenance that we drafted the lowest income level of america, and the highest income level found a doctor that would say they had of bones for. that is wrong. -- bone spur. that is wrong. if we are going to ask every american serve, every american should serve. host: that comment seen as a shot at donald trump. the headline saying john mccain appears to mock donald trump's draft deferments. you can watch that interview on our website. what u.s. institutions do you trust? anthony is in virginia, independent. go ahead. caller: thank you for having me. if i were to go for anything at this point in time, i would rather literally take the military, and that is only because at this point in time the orders that are given to them by the civilians that run institutions, so they do what is expected of them. congress,ke the u.s. these are bottom feeders. they have gone to the bottom of directself in trying to the strength of this great country. they have literally just moved away from us as a nation. missouri, line for democrats. go ahead. caller: who do i trust? , they because our problem keep talking about the constitution, how about we take the constitution into every state and see if these states are going by the constitution of what they're doing to the people? the states, are governors, and all these states is not going by the constitution. just look at what they're doing to the people in these states. this is ridiculous. host: give me an example of what they're doing that upsets you so much. caller: pardon me? host: give me an example of what they are doing that upsets you some much. caller: they are going -- you know, they want to go after immigrants. it is just a mess. we have over half of this -- the governors are republicans. do you want to know why we're not moving forward? they're taking money. theyhere in my own state, went after seniors, disabled people, taking money from them. that is not what we do in this country. host: that is beverly in missouri. if you want to join in on the conversation, what u.s. institutions do you trust? republicans (202) 748-8001. democrats (202) 748-8000. independents (202) 748-8002. beverly talking about what is happening in the individual states. here is a story on health care policy in maine. maine voters will decide whether to expand medicaid rolls under obamacare. congress decides whether to rein 2010 law.d onto the the maine legislature has tried five times to grab federal dollars that allow states to expand their insurance program, but governor paul lepage has vetoed each time. they will put that issue direct way to voters on november 7. about 15 minutes left in this topic. this story we have been following on "washington journal," the sentencing hearing begins today at fort bragg, north carolina, for sergeant bowe bergdahl, who pled guilty last week to one count of desertion, and one count of misbehavior before the enemy by endangering the safety of the command. he could face life in prison. we will look to see what happens today in that sentencing. we have talked about unions today, one of those institutions, whether that is one of those institutions you trust or don't. afl-cio, their members on sunday evening ,elected richard trumka retaining the position he has held since 2009. he said his goal is for labor unions to emerge with a unified political agenda at a time when the labor movement is split. what u.s. institutions do you trust? they don't have to be government institutions. is it media, schools, business? gallup recently surveyed americans about all those topics. we have been going through it this morning. we want to hear from you. jim, indiana, i'm for ind ependents. caller: the only government agency that gets a 95% approval rating is the postal service. we never hear about it. thank you. host: why is there so much trust in the mailman? caller: you have to be honest to be a mailman. when i carried mail, every letter you delivered, you pretended you were delivering it to your mother. you did not make mistakes. you did not steal. that is the way it works in the post office. host: why haven't other institutions been able to carry those same themes, the same supposed to what they do? why is it unique to the postal service? caller: i don't have the answer for it. i really don't. i don't have answer. i answer. host: should we elect postal carriers to other positions in government? would you like to see that, former postal carriers as members of congress? caller: i surely would. when you work in the post office, you had a 95% chance of ofying, 1% chance putting, and 4% chance of making supervisor. you kept your job and did a good job. host: how long did you do it? caller: i did it for 31 years. host: how did you get started? caller: i wanted a job, to be honest. host: thank you for the call. jerry in pittsburgh. one for democrats. go ahead. -- line for democrats. go ahead. thinki -- thank you for taking my call. i do trust the unions. i think that is the only institution, we in america need to come together. we are divided. we need term limits and our congress and senate. that is the problem. there that83 people have been there for over 20 years that are stopping us from moving forward. we do have a shadow government. it is time for americans to wake up. it is time for the media to talk about it. the unions are strong. host: do you like any of your own members of congress? caller: the new blood that is coming up, they truly believe, young americans. the old blood has been in there too long. they are bought and paid for. they are holding everything up. they did the same thing to president obama in the beginning. host: when should you go? how many years? four year terms for senator, eight years, same thing for congress. host: line for republicans. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you. i have been listening. i have to concur with one thing, the individual that talks about the postal system, he has its spot. i've t the only system rust. we have got to understand in our country about these warmongers. i have been in the military for 30 years, three months, nine days. retired command sergeant major. i have been in war since the end of vietnam, grenada, desert shield, desert storm. i have been there. the way the government looks at war, especially those leaders like dick cheney and donald rumsfeld, they look at it as a business. war, we need contractors. boeing. we need lockheed martin. it is a pay per -- paid profession. if you take that business away, we have no war, it is something everyone should look at. i don't know if you knew john ca ndy. there was a movie out there called "canadian bacon." you can get a hold of that. look at "canadian bacon." this is what happens to our country when we don't have war. we don't have industry. we don't have jobs. this is why these warmongers look at this as a business. the postal system, i give them two thumbs up. on a scale of one to 10, i give them a 12. host: let me ask you about the postal service. here is an article from over the a $2.1 billionth net loss last quarter. does that concern you at all? caller: as far as the loss? the loss to me is because of management and how we manage the postal system. basically, they have competition. the competition they have is ups, fedex, dhl, all these other independent carriers that is trying to overshadow the united states postal service. that is what causes a lot of losses because you can track yourself a little better. the u.s. postal system is getting better and better at their way of managing all of our services through there. of loss is caused because competition, stringent competition. host: ed, west virginia, line for independents. what u.s. institutions do you trust? caller: let's go with the post office. were fired for stealing money out of the envelopes. rule, whether it is money, and that covers government institutions, i don't think there's much money in the supreme court. the constitution, these people all talk about it. i look at the constitution. the bible. you have the supreme court. nine people are on there. it is 5-4. that means there are two different ways for the constitution to go. the elected democrat it's a democrat in. republicancan puts a in. the other offices, how can you trust them? mayors caught doing that. you imagine how many of them are not caught. where there is money, there is a thief. that is the way i look at it. host: you mentioned the supreme court. column by comun -- robert barnes, he talks about john roberts getting his 13th year in the supreme court and how he has tried to run the court. his mission is to convince the american public that the supreme court is unlike other washington institutions, different from the gridlock mess across the capital. the nine justices are not democrats or republicans, he often says, leaving a mentioned the political process that got each of them installed in their lifetime appointments. robert barnes talking about the challenges to that effort. john roberts starting his 13th term as chief justice. maryland, line for democrats. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: i would like to say i trust the state department quite a bit, especially the association for civilian national service. host: what does that service to four votes that don't know -- for folks that don't know? caller: it provides an opportunity for people that want to serve the country but do not believe the military is right for them. things like the peace corps, americorps. host: were you involved in any of those groups? caller: i served in americorps back in 2015. it really got my life back on track. at the end of the term of service, they provide help for college. that was another thing that helped me get back on track. i do trust the state department that provides opportunities for national civilian service. i hope those opportunities expand for more people who might feel lost and want to serve the country, but don't necessarily feel that the military is the best. i respect the military. i am not saying it is bad or anything. i am just saying there should be an alternative for people who want to serve. host: do you trust those programs will be protected under the current administration, the current leadership of the state department? caller: i don't know. trump budgetck -- that wanted to cut money to the state department, but then jim mattis pushed back against that. i think it is up in the air. all i can do is hope and try to make my voice heard that it has helped me and a lot of other people to get our lives in shape, get in line and be productive citizens. host: thank you for the call. speaking of president trump, here is his op-ed that came out yesterday morning. it is about president trump's efforts on tax reform. americaline, morning in dons again. we will be talking about it next in our roundtable on "washington journal." we will be joined by usa today's paul singer and darlene superville of the associated press. that is coming up next. economistrtment list chris salavati discusses mortgage interest deductions and benefits to high income households. that is our weekly your money segment coming up later today. we will be right back. >> they are closer now than they were five years ago. i expect it will be closer in five months than they are today, absent a global effort to push back against them. each test successful or unsuccessful continues to develop. kim jong-un and his engineers and scientists are intent upon completing that old chain of activity. it is the case that they are close enough capabilities from a u.s. policy respect if that we ought to behave as if we are on the cusp of them achieving that objective. there is always risk. intelligence is imperfect in a place like north korea, it could be off by months or couple of years in our understanding. before myne good work time of tracking this program through the years but when you are talking about months, our capacity to understand that at a irrelevant -- is whether it happens on tuesday or a month from tuesday -- we are at a time where the president has concluded that we need a global effort to ensure that kim jong-un doesn't have that capacity. >> it raises an interesting question for the intelligence community because it raises the question of how definitive you need to be in terms of when they reach that capability and -- i'm not asking you to be a what point, but at do you assume or have to assume for the sake of national security that they do have that capability? and as that begins to shift your policy options. does. when i took over as the director, i created a mission centered to tackle this problem set, roughly speaking. the korean nuclear problem set. we are still trying to refine that answers so we can give, to policymakers, a shorter window with which to face the conundrum . it is a challenging target. when that we have spent a lot of energy on and will continue to do so each day. nowit is something that we do all have to accept so we have to build backwards from the timelines we lay out for the president. "washington journal" continues. host: we are joined by usa today washington correspondent paul singer. darlene superville is with the associated press, a white house reported there. we're talking about all that is dce and another important week for tax reform as we showed our viewers before the break the column in usa today talking about tax reform with a house republican conference call yesterday. where else will he go to make this pitch this week? guest: on tuesday, capitol hill to attend the senate republican luncheon. and the tax reform bill is likely going to be a big topic of discussion there. as you know, the senate last week passed a budget resolution and this is something the president really wants to do. host: what is the game plan for the president this week? what is success when he leaves this meeting? success will be having the caucus united around this issue. and what he wants to get done. and having senate republicans lean on house members to get them in line for the bill. host: paul singer, take us to the timeline for tax reform. what needs to happen this week and next week to keep this on track as the president hopes to get this done before the end of the year? guest: yes, we have the option to get it done before thanksgiving. as long as they can get the house to pass the budget resolution. this is just the outline for what will be the tax bill. it sets a topline number. the challenge for the house is that they have to swallow what the senate did, which was allow ,or a trillion dollar deficit which the tax reform, in theory, is going to make up for i creating economic unity. for some conservatives in the house, and that is a sticking point. so that is what they have to get through this week. once that is done then you have the house and senate agreeing on a budget resolution with a topline number and you can produce a bill. as soon as that is done, hopefully the house ways and means committee will produce special legislation and we will see numbers and what the tax brackets are and who they affect and the legislation begins to move through the house as quickly as they can get it to move. host: we know the president joined the conference call yesterday and what we know that came out of it? did he move house members? the most conservative house members we spoke with last week said basically that they probably would go along with it. we will see what happens when they get the bill. going along with the number and going along with the bill are two different things. because a number, sure. let's have a trillion dollar tax relief is different than saying yes, we give a tax really to this people and we will cancel the tax seduction in new jersey -- whatever it is. so at the moment, conservatives seem like they're willing to the along and this morning president tweeted that he promises to retain the 401(k) with no changes. so again, the negotiations have begun on the detail. the first thing is to get the topline number through the house. host: we are going through the details and the timeline. the president to join the conference call yesterday, foxing mick mulvaney to news to talk about the timeline on fox news sunday. here is what he had to say. >> absolutely do. if the house takes the senate budget when they come back tuesday, it absolutely moves the ball a lot further and quicker towards that goal. >> another thing steve mnuchin under the shuttle is the corporate tax rate which is 20%. but if you had to negotiate on the number, would you? two priorities have been that middle tax taxpayers will pay less and it will be simpler. and number two is that the corporate tax rate is going to come down. back downove to get to 50% of the continue the negotiation but those two things are the foundation of the tax plan for the president. and i don't think the house really wants to negotiate those very much. darlene superville, how much negotiating a return to see when the president heads to capitol hill this week? what are we expecting to hear from him? that theres possible may be some negotiating. a lot of this will come back down to the adage that the devil is in the details. people are going to want to see the brackets and the income levels and the details and state and local taxes. the president tweeted this morning that before a one contributions are safe but that is off the table now so we have to wait and see. the president was adamant on the 20% rate. and he was not going to negotiate on that. but this is something you really want so we may have to bend a little. host: if you want to join the conversation, phone lines are open as we speak to paul singer from usa today and darlene superville from associated press. (202) 748-8001, republicans. (202) 748-8002, democrats. -- (202) 748-8000, democrats. (202) 748-8002, independent colors. oft you think the impact is trumps war of words with fredricka thousand. seet: it is hard to anything other than distracting attention. because as a chance to talk about frederica wilson which is not a name we mentioned before last week. it is also a thing where he is being accused of -- by the congressional black caucus of disrespecting a black member of congress. witches going to create troubles for him, trying to point out to people that he is not just working for working-class white voters, also working for working-class black voters. thes in danger of changing conversation to something other than tax policy. this week, so far, he has been very good about focusing on tax sidebarut these audit issues pop up when the president tweets. this morning he was tweeting again about the nfl. stay on taxes. stay on taxes. host: the tweet was about two dozen players still continuing to kneel during the anthem. you coverperville, the white house. is there a chance the president would prefer we talk about some of these issues rather than the larger tax policy? whether this is the discussion he would prefer the news media would focus on while these other discussions happen on capitol hill? is their strategy here? guest: to some degree, maybe there is a strategy and maybe he does want us to talk about these other issues and then he could turn around and play the media and say well, we are not fighting about tax reforms. i'm trying to get the largest tax cut in u.s. history -- as he calls it. so maybe there is strategy to it but it does take away from the focus on tax reform which is something that the white house and the president and republicans on the hill really want to get done. host: the president also wants to focus on the opioid epidemic this week. escrow we know very little about what he will say on thursday. a few months ago he came out to say that the opioid crisis was a national emergency. and he promised to issue some sort of declaration to that. last week, the meeting he had with mitch mcconnell, he said he would be making an announcement it isit this week but unclear what he can say at how much work the white house has been able to do in terms of nationalis a so-called declaration. host: on this side of pennsylvania avenue, the senate is expected to work their way through another disaster aid bill this week? guest: yes, $35 billion in disaster aid. there was re: $15 billion in disaster aid that passed last month. the question is whether there is enough money in the disaster aid bill. i believe texas and florida are already saying that 35 billion dollars coming this week isn't enough. they need more money for houston. and more money for the florida citrus crop. that has been a concession it was moving this bill and we will have another one coming in next month. there is disaster aid in there for the rico. money to relieve some of the debt. there is money for the federal flood insurance program. this is going to go on for a while and my suspicion is that they will move this through quickly and then they start the next one. 105r katrina, they passed billion dollars in disaster relief in the first couple of months but at this point if you look at florida, texas, puerto rico, virgin islands and the wildfires in california, those numbers will go higher than that. host: the house and senate back for the first time in three weeks this week. we are talking about this morning in our roundtable about the week ahead in washington. in southup first carolina. an independent. good morning. caller: yes. i want to say that we just got done talking on c-span about trust in institutions, asking the general populace what institutions do we trust and i heard paul singer just say now and how the conservatives members of congress are at he said something -- if i paraphrase -- oh, i will go along with it. but it baffles my mind, as a regular citizen -- and i don't hear many reporters talking about this. how can a man who won't even show his taxes, we don't even know what is in his taxes, how can he lead tax reform? forre settling in america anything just to get something passed. why people don't trust institutions? i find it ironic. and again, i'm no expert. but how can a man who won't even show his taxes lead tax reform? host: henry, as everything happens on capitol hill, should that be something that democrats should focus on when they're moving this legislation through? do you want to hear that from them? we lost henry. guest: well, you will be hearing from democrats on this topic. this is a topic i know almost nothing about but over the weekend, the president is preparing to release jfk documents about the jfk assassination. and the white house is saying they are doing this in the interest of transparency so democrats came up with all, transparency. we like that too. we would like to see the president's tax reform -- the president's tax returns. the reason conservatives are willing to go along with the budget deal that they otherwise would oppose is because tax reform is important to them. they believe that tax cuts that could be the biggest possibly in we are glossing over the ugly corners to get to them be depart. host: before we leave that question on the president's tax presidents tax returns, does it still come up? guest: not as much. it does come up. the basic response is no. he is not releasing them. host: we are speaking with darlene superville and paul singer from usa today. we go to jason from oregon on the line for independent callers. caller: yes. -- if president trump wants to cement his legacy, he has an opportunity to redefine what constitutes wealth on this planet. i would love to zero lies the debt of all the planet. and restart something with a currency that isn't just abstract from various resources. and i think that would be a wonderful thing to see. what do you think? reallyi'd don't understand what currency we would move away from. i have heard discussions about broader debt relief around the world or moving back to the gold standard and these things are kicked around from time to time. bitcoiney do talk about every once in a while. guest: your collar might be asking for a philosophical beyond aation that is legislative capacity of congress and the white house at the moment. host: congress and the president are focusing on tax reform. yesterday was the anniversary of president ronald reagan signing the tax reform bill of 1986. the president did write a column in usa today focusing on that with a lot of focus on reagan and discussion on reagan and his words in that column. obviously that is something he intended to do. guest: he talks about reagan in the context of this tax cut quite a bit, and we all know that reagan is the -- what is theword i'm looking for -- icon of the republican party. and that is what that is all about. it is conjuring up the good feeling from the 1980's when reagan was president and he helps try to move this process along. guest: he even uses the language of reagan. host: here is the president and his own words from an interview on tax reform. >> i think they should and i think they will. i think a lot of things are happening. i don't even like them leaving. and i will say this that i want to get it done by the end of the year. but i would be disappointed if it took that long. it could be substantially less than that depending on what happens when we send the bill back to the house. make 200 go and suggestions as opposed to knows a gesture in stash because it is a great l -- it is going to be a great bill. and we are adjusting. we are adjusting so there no way that the middle-class doesn't greatly benefit. it could be that some people in the middle class won't benefit as much as we want them to benefit and we are making certain adjustments but i think we will have it sooner rather than later. host: that was the president in an interview that aired on fox news yesterday talking about tax reform. we talk about it this morning a washington journal. the president talking about it on his twitter page as he tweeted out that there would be no change to the 401(k). he says it works and it stays. that was one of three tweets from the president this morning. we will keep you updated as he continues to tweet as we continue with our roundtable. victoria on the line for democrats, go ahead. caller: good morning. just sawreform, we what happened to health care and what they tried to do with health care situation. tax reform that we don't even know if we can trust this administration? i just saw the widow for sergeant johnson and her views on what happened. it isn't just president trump john f attacking but kelly, i have been reaching his tweets and how can we trust this administration? and tax reform and health care and in anything? our military. how can we trust? host: a couple of different issues. she began with health care. the lessons from the health care debate and the attempt to move that legislation? guest: well, an interesting question. what i would say to the caller all, there is of no tax bill right now. so she would have to wait until there was a bill and be a good citizen and read about it and learn about it and read the details. watch the process as the bill moves through. eventual be able to judge the administration. host: and paul singer on the trust issue with the tax bill? guest: one of the things that becomes challenging is that when we talk about moving a massive tax bill -- which none of us ,ave seen -- it hasn't written and they want to move it by thanksgiving? you have to ask the question -- if someone is moving got quickly with something that debate, is there something in there that we haven't seen that we are going to regret or hear about later? you look up the great tax giveaway, a series of stories in 1986 aboutirer the 1986 tax bill. and inside that tax bill were aliens of dollars in individual giveaways to rich people for specific objects. a boat or a piece of land or whatever it was. it got buried in there. it may be years before we know what is in the tax bill. tot: gina how long it took move the tax bill in 1986? guest: they were in there for months trading off. i believe it took quite a while to go through. but again, it goes back to the issue of, read the bill. the viewer needs to get smart about what is in the tax bill. but it is a challenge for any viewer and for us to get to the bottom of it. host: and read it by thanksgiving. guest: right. and we don't know what will be in it at this point. host: randall, go ahead. i remember the debate in 1985 or 1986 and it took over 18 months. i don't know how many congressional hearings. it was like watching paint dry. they started in january of 1985 and then october 1986 cell off of top of my head, 18 months detailed hearings. and he is talking about thanksgiving? you must be talking about thanksgiving in 2020. because it is extremely because all constituents have to air their grievances. anyway. i don't know anybody that really trusts to negotiate with the administration. him butnot disparaging i just don't know what i believe. i don't believe what he says is true. to take the top marginal tax rate of corporations down to 42%. that is a huge giveaway. you are is fine but going to kick trillions of dollars a year and we have monopoly money. and it happened in indonesia. that used to be 2500 indonesia rupee and that was over six or seven years. we would borrow half a trillion dollars in year and treasuries have to rollover that much. and there's no way. the world figures out that we have an irresponsible administration, which apparently we do with all the tweaking and everything, i don't know that they will keep rolling over the debt. host: stay on the line. the president tweeted about this and he has a column in usa today where he lays out his tax plan. here is what he promises in the column. "we cut taxes for hard-working middle-class families. we double the standard reduction and expand the child tax credit and lower rate so families keep more of the hard-earned money and restore the competitive edge so we can create better jobs with higher wages. saying the plan provides tax relief to businesses of all sizes and we will bring back trillions of dollars in american wealth parked overseas peer co--- parked overseas." he can't do that and maintain the deficit. a 3% growth in gdp is said of the 1.9% of this century. it just hasn't happened since the 1990's. when we had a sustained gdp growth. it hasn't happened in 20 years. host: this is the theory. and he is exactly right. guest: will get enormous tax cuts to the middle-class and corporations. it is unclear what it will be at. there are some questions about the top rate where it is in transit there. so instead of offsetting this , we let thecuts now tax cuts drive a massive extension in the economy which will increase investment and jobs in the united states. and the administration claims they've come up with a number. $4000 is the average salary increase for everybody in america. that number has to be fiction. i don't mean that it is wrong but i mean that no one has any idea if it is going to work like that. if it doesn't work like that then you end up with a problem of having a deficit and this is what worries the democrats. because if you try to do a tax cut that drives massive deficit than the only way to make up for the deficit is to come back around and say they don't have money so they have to cut medicare and medicaid and all of the health and human services spending. getting rid of the social investment to make up for the losses. host: we have air cut in virginia. go ahead. caller: good morning. i am an independent call her and i do not agree with this tax cut. for the corporations of the wealthy. --on't believe that it is when the president says he's going to give tax cuts, i don't believe he gives more deductions. but he is no mention about what he will take away. so if you take the deductions but you take away the exceptions then it leaves the middle class with very little compared to what they will be getting. in these times when we are all struggling. and i don't trust corporate america when they say they will resolve the economy -- they have been getting tax cuts with trickle-down economics and we haven't seen that yet. we have seen it in china and korea maybe or the philippines or somewhere else. expensive are very employees. if they compare our sales inbally with other workers the world. so i don't believe them. are -- i don't trust them. and that is why i oppose this. host: thank you for your call. another caller focusing on the issue of trust. issue outis a big there give more people have seen from the administration. to again, it goes back details that are in the bill when the bill is finally produced. right now there is no bill. and that is it. host: we focus on the issue of trust quite a bit this morning. talking about american confidence in institutions around this country. not just government institutions. and i want to get your take on the gallup report. newspapers getting 27% of respondents to the gallup survey saying they have a great deal or high amount of trust in them. int was one of the big jumps the past year. what you make of that. what do you think is caused that? and what you think of the other media as well? i want to focus on newspapers. guest: it is interesting given the administration's posture towards the media. but what transpired this past week with the white house chief of staff, john kelly and congresswoman wilson in florida -- a lot of what the chief of staff said about congresswoman kelly -- congresswoman wilson said to not be true. saying that what they do is not above board. guest: and it was a newspaper that found the video that exonerated congresswoman wilson. host: television news gets 24%. respondents saying they have confidence in those institutions. what do you take from that, paul singer? guest: 27% of americans haven't even seen a newspaper. and that number is growing. i think we are coming to a that isamerica increasingly, intentionally divided. where people are being told not to trust institutions. not because there's and they were with the as situations but because those institutions are a barrier to me for my progress. and you hear it from conservatives and liberals. you and i used to record a place where a member of congress doing something wrong with their spending accounts would be a big deal. but it no longer is because people dismiss that as fake news. no hazard is that there is place to go for information that you trust. and therefore you fall for anything. basically, all information is equal and it doesn't matter whether it is true or not. host: we are with paul singer of usa today and darlene superville from the associated press. joining us after 8:30, if you want to join in, as a republican, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. host: before we get back to the calls, i want to get back to congresswoman wilson put the fallen soldier, the controversy that came up from that. how much are we expecting to hear from the administration with an administration on why they were in need chair -- why they were in niger? is that something we will hear more of? guest: no doubt you will. the sergeant's widow was on good morning america this morning and she confirmed a lot of what congresswoman wilson said last week. so undoubtedly there will be questions about what the widow had to say. there have been questions to the white house last week about what wherey happened in niger sarah huckabee sanders referred to this investigation that the department of defense is opened and said that that process needs to play out before they can say anymore, even including how much the president knew or didn't inw about what was happening niger. so that story potentially will continue through this week. host: the president we did two minutes ago about that conversation he had with the widow of sergeant david johnson. here is a street "i had a very respectful conversation and spoke his name from the beginning without hesitation." guest: she said he was struggling to come up with the name. her husband's name. the president has an odd way of getting into these he said she with people who we have never heard from and then they become spokespeople for his opposition. if the president had said at the outset, we feel the pain of this woman and we are desperately grateful, as a nation for what that itand did for us would stop and move on. it would have gone nowhere. but instead it is five days later and we are talking about this. last 24e tweets in the hours, one third has been on this issue. guest: last week, a congresswoman said that the story should have stopped last madewhen congressman kelly his statement but it is hard to end a conversation with the president continuously tweets about it. sundayted saturday and about the florida congresswoman. when the president speaks, you can't ignore that. so him tweeting about us today drives another cycle of these stories. host: we are talking about it all this morning. tax reform, this issue, whatever's on your mind. also opioid abuse. phones are open. in miami, florida, good morning. caller: good morning hello. i want to make it clear from the outset that i believe in the first amendment and newspapers. don'to reporters you have represent organizations that are fake news. neither does the washington post, the miami herald or the that,rker but having said i want them to hold the president of the united states to the fire on the opioid issue which affects all of his people. all of the folks who voted for him. he said he was going to declare it an emergency in august but it is october and i don't recall reporters jumping up and down making that isn't an over his false promises. never his false statements. but certainly his false promises. and i think the reporters at the white house and beyond need to hold his feet to the fire. and he owes my congresswoman an apology. kelly does and sanders does and the administration does. that is it from me. aboutcould you talk more frederica wilson for viewers who don't know her? can you talk about your experience with her? caller: she is a community minded responsive congresswoman. mentioned thate they hadn't heard of her but folks in the district have heard of her and she is responsible and good and does what she all the to do. she does stuff you expect your representative to do. i am an independent and i can vote for folks in primaries and florida but i would vote for her in the general and i will again, especially behind all of this. and i encourage more folks to get involved. host: thank you for the call. the arlene super of a, what do you want to pick up on? guest: the caller mentioned the opioid epidemic and he would the to see reporters hold president speak to the fire on the issue. and there has been some follow-up since he said was going to be a national security issue and he was going to declare one. the new york times pointed out that it had been so many weeks since he had said this. given what he said on monday that he would be making an announcement this week, i know that one of my colleagues is working on a story and i'm sure other organizations are working on stories as well about what he is going to say and does he come declaration and what exactly will that mean for all the people in this country who are struggling with opioid addiction? here is the associated press, their grouping of stories on the issue of overcoming opioids. 14 in that series. in the recent weeks and months. guest: my colleague asked the question that got trump talking about this in august. he talked but why there had not been a declaration of national emergency and part of the problem is getting the agencies in line to work on the same project, basically. and we also have a couple of --orters around our network because usa today is a network of newspapers around the country so we have an advantage of having people on the ground in these places where we cover the. epidemic from a ground-level and not from a washington level. so you are seeing a lot of that reporting there. host: robert, go ahead. caller: in the bluster about the the originalut in proposal it included an increase in the bottom marginal rates to 12%, something i've heard not one iota of conversation about. so it promises that it will be in at by increases .tandard deduction the deductions like the deductibility of state taxes -- no one really kind addict what the net net is for people making under $100,000 a year who no longer maybe incentivized to itemize. they wind up paying more taxes. anybody making under $10,000 a year with adjusted gross is going to pay more taxes representing infinity of their wealth and assets. so my question is, does this still include unconscionable access for tax increases for the poor? --? -- guest:end the colleague of mine didn't analysis of "what the tax means for you" and he gets at this point -- the lower tax bracket goes from 10% to 12%. most will go that to zero and will drop out entirely because the debt obstruction will be raised to 24,000. mass for thisof time in the morning. who does thatay, include? since we haven't seen the text rocket and we haven't seen the numbers in the bill, there is no telling who they mean. these, they one of people in the high-end of the brackets who are now taking deductions, they may see a tax increase. it isn't clear who they will be and you won't know it until you see the bill whether you're getting a tax cut or increase. host: we go to bill in virginia. go ahead. caller: i wanted to speak to the freeing up of the profits overseas. i think it will have the opposite effect. businesses are overseas because they have cheaper cost. so if you free up and let more people of its light over, they will continue to expand overseas. because they have cheaper costs and they will get more money and more that will come back to the united states. tothat would keep me to want stay over there. and that is my comment. the: darlene superville, administration has focused on this so much that this is one of the specific issues that the president highlighted in his column that came out yesterday. guest: he highlights that often when he gives speeches about the tax bill and his theory is that if you lower the corporate tax rate to make the u.s. more competitive with other countries then that will give u.s. corporations that are broad and incentive to come back and bring jobs back to the u.s. and revenue and tax revenue and all that sort of thing. again, it does remain to be seen in a to whether it works out that way but that is what he is counting on. host: we are looking for your comments on twitter as well. two tweets that have come up as we have this conversation. attackg on the niger that killed soldiers. steve said "we won't get house keyrings on trump-benghazi until he democrats get it back." the comparison to and ghazi, is that something that democratic leaders want to do? how is the white house been reacting to that comparison? guest: anytime american servicemen die in battle, particularly in a battle that the storycted because 48 hoursohnson spent missing before they could locate bunch of there are a questions here that are worth asking. and i think both republicans and democrats will ask those questions. remember benghazi -- that became toopportunity for congress create a separate stand-alone committee that spent $7 million do the seven or eight investigation. i would be shocked to say the same thing but i would not be shocked to see the armed services committee do same investigation on this. there are good, reasonable questions to ask from a technical and military standpoint of what took place there. most americans didn't realize we had forces in niger. host: how is the white house responded to that specific comparison? guest: swatting it away. the white house will never say is as seriousthis as people think it is. even though american service people were killed in africa in an ambush in an unexpected way. but for now, the white house is swatting away the comparisons. guest: one of the primary questions in the benghazi investigation was what was said on the talking points on the sunday shows immediately after. was it biased or slandered for political reasons? dopotentially had nothing to with the military question at the military questions at the moment will be the first questions to answer here. host: todd from new hampshire, go ahead. caller: i wanted to call in and talk about earlier, institutions that americans trust. whether we trust them. it is how much we trust them. a lot of it is driven by how much the institutions themselves can profit. things like the fire department, everybody trusts the fire department area and we love it. that's wonderful. air traffic. if you look at different american institutions as to whether it is media or politicians or whatever, the question becomes -- how much can they make? and if they can make and do make a lot of money off the american public like politicians do, we trust them very little. but if they are trying to provide a service than we trust you a great deal because if think they're motivated by self-interest, you know you cannot trust them. host: to that weight, the lowest trusted institution on that list was news on the internet trusted by 16% of respondents. highest but was the down from 2016 at 73%. aws on the internet, is it profitable business? caller: it is if you look at why they are doing it. it drives you towards certain things. you can't trust it. people at certain points of view that they are trying to drive. money off ofs everything because they collect data for people who go there. they are trying to get you to do something usually because they profit off of that. but the military, as one of your callers said earlier is about following orders and theoretically doing what is best for the country and we honor and respect that. the second most trusted institution is small businesses trusted by 70% of respondents, does that make sense? it does. we know those people. there aren't overseas so they won't get a tax cut. when i go into a store, i talked to the owner. i have a personal relationship with them and while he is trying to make a living, he isn't trying to rip me off. host: paul singer, do you want to jump in? guest: this is something we have seen. hates the press but likes talking to reporters. when you walk outside the arena bade they yell that it is press, when you get them outside, you have a conversation with them and they tell you your point of view and they look for to seeing the story in the newspaper. faith in great deal of each other. i really do believe that if i fall down on the sidewalk and break my wrist, a number of strangers would pick me up and would make sure i am ok. and they won't ask as i work for the fake news. host: said you think that is true that people pay congress but like their congressperson? guest: yes. wilson,e congresswoman the local person who knows her says yes, she does what is good for our district. guest: i agree with all of that. politics is local. the closer it is with the institutions and the people, you feel like you can get a handle on them and you know them better. better than somebody in iowa and other members of congress. you just don't get a sense of their working for you. debbie is in troy, ohio. a republican. we are talking about the week ahead and trust issues seem to have come up quite a bit in this segment. what do you want to talk about? caller: i wonder if the florida termesswoman with support limits. i think it is a disgrace as to what she has tried to do. sheila jackson took a knee on the congress floor. what a joke. al green talking about impeachment, what is been done? nothing. mueller, where is the money that he is spending that is taxpayer money? he was involved with hillary cartel. as far as the media, i don't trust them because you all work for the cia with propaganda and caused problems. host: why do you think the media works for the cia? caller: because they just regurgitate. and they work for the cia. guest: that is not true. my team last week didn't investigation on exactly a much oney congress is spending the russian investigations. we found millions of dollars that we know where spent. we found a bunch of millions of dollars that they won't tell us about how there to expand and we will continue eating into that. we don't work for the cia. if you pick up a newspaper every stories you will see that surprised democrats and stories that surprised republicans and that is what is opposed to happen. we don't work for the cia and it is just not true. host: how long have you been a reporter? guest: 30 years. i never wanted to do anything else. i started my first newspaper when i was nine years old. ended upoint, i getting helen thomas's job at the white house. ever told me was questions i can't ask and i've never wanted to do anything but this. host: what was your past to white house briefing room? guest: i have been involved in journalism for the same out of time. became -- i idolized a journalist and i was an intern for the associated press and one thing led to another. i worked in new jersey for six years and i have been in washington since 1994 covering a variety of scenes. host: we had a caller say that to golists should be made to graduate school or journalism beool and they should licensed -- but he didn't say how. what you make of that? guest: my license may journalism degree from nyu. journalism is one of the things you get that are out by doing it. i don't think you need a license per se. the fact that so many people are bloggers and citizen journalists is proof that you can't license journalism. guest: i used to teach whatalism grad school and i believe is that every journalist should be required to spend two years doing city hall or a town council where you actually see how governments function. that is the first thing we should be doing. helping people see what government actually does. i don't care whether you have been to the columbia journalism school and can go on tv and talk . that doesn't matter to me. can you find facts that are not obvious that the government is not providing to you on a silver can yourussian mark tell folks this is what it actually means? can you tell folks what is in the bill? host: on the line for democrats, good morning. caller: i want to talk about the elephant in the room with the tax plan. experts say this will literally "explode the deficit" and add $30 trillion to the debt. it seems to me that i remember republicans and trump supporters, as a matter of fact for eight years complaining about the deficit and debt. the deficit and the debt. i don't hear them say a word about it now. that is the first thing. the second thing is that the tax plan, because of the huge break , it is thelthy trickle-down approach all over again. it didn't work when it was tried before and it isn't going to work now. because what happened whom he had trickle-down before is that the wealthy folks and corporations, instead of andsting in their companies hiring workers is investing money to grow on wall street and that was it. so we have things nobody is really addressing. i would like the reporters comments on that. thank you. that the billrue is not done. or the bill that we are expecting to see isn't done. and the republicans who seem to -- itting that aside forgot her other point? to finish with this question because you will be hearing this terminology in washington called dynamic scoring. and what they mean by that is that the deficit numbers don't matter if you are expanding the economy enough. and again, the theory is that all of us get a 10% tax cut which is less money for the government. but if all of us are 20% more productive in the government -- in our careers then it is more money for the government. it basically is trickle-down economics. you are correct. and money through the corporations comes back. is onere is never this the foreign deficit coming back. this is the theory. thegive corporations opportunity to use that money in the united states and it trickles into a higher economy and there is economic growth for everyone around it. it is a theory. i'm not smart enough to know whether it is true but it is a hypothesis that we apparently will test. host: joe in new orleans. the line for democrats. think for waiting period -- thank you for waiting period had concerns for a long time with concerns to the drug that has been receiving attention. not as the drug epidemic but as an opioid epidemic. my second concern is why there was not this concerned when it as primarily identified something that was going on in the black community? there was no concern about getting treatment. it wasn't considered an illness, as it is now. i just don't understand. what is the difference that now think thecting -- i difference is that it is .ffecting the white community yes, they need help. and there is an illness. but in the black community, they are thugs? they need to go to jail? there are no good? why does this happen to our community? nothing ever gets done about drug use until it affects the white community and that is wrong. host: we will give you both a chance to comment. we have heard that before from some callers. how will the president be addressing those concerns? do you think you will? guest: a good question. i'm not sure that he will. we don't know what is going to say this week. establish this commission that came out with this report saying something to the effect of 140 people die a day from opioid abuse. 9/11,at is equivalent to multiple times over. i think what may be difficult -- i think what may be different in this situation is the staggering number of people who are dying every day due to open ideas versus what may have been going community. minority guest: i was reading this op-ed in the usa today when the president wrote about how great it was in the 1980's and i live not far from here in the 1980's in a mostly black community that was being ravaged by crack cocaine. and the response of the government at that time was stricter penalties and longer sentences for drug crimes. they have now been rolled back. and i think that your callers question is the right question. opioids inonse to part different because that is why people being affected and not black people? that that is part of what is going on here. it is also possible that what is going on here is that our culture has evolved. we look at jokes and see addiction as a disease more than we did 20 years ago but it is true that this particular disease has affected white suburban neighborhoods. host: we ended there. paul singer is the washington correspondent for usa today and you can follow him on twitter. darlene superville is with the associated press, a white house reporter there. also on twitter. thank you so much. later today on the washington journal, tonight on the communicators, 2016a's involvement in the election. > they learned that a bunch of ads placed during the election russian outfits nder anonymous accounts, they were politically divisive ads, not necessarily aimed at one or the other, but aimed at selling divisiveness on topics. >> watch the communicators tonight at 8 eastern on c-span 2. >> in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's public television -- and brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> "washington journal" continues. host: it is open phones for the on "washington journal," any public policy issue that you want to talk about, if you want to continue discussion from earlier today on the u.s. institutions that you trust, we can certainly do that, as well. phone lines are yours, we leave the next 30 for minutes. republicans, 202-748-8001. 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. calling in, show you some of the front pages from the of papers outside washington, d.c. this is the journal gazette of illinois. out their lead story, tillerson isolate iran,p to ap wire story. lso an associated press story on president trump urging house republicans, move quickly on the tax cuts.l and certainly an issue we talked about in our last segment of the "washington journal." here is the standard speaker out focusingon, minnesota, on voter commission, voter fraud ommission, criticized for lack of transparency is the story there. the headline asking, what are hiding? one more front page from a paper outside of washington, d.c. the poughkeepsie journal poll predicts trump legacy and the president ay is to be remembered poorly. also a story about teacher the ies there from poughkeepsie journal. getting your thoughts, what do you want to talk about, what is your line? phone lines are open. david in baltimore, maryland, line for democrats. go ahead. caller: yes, david jones from baltimore. talking about the presidency what he represents. party, the ublican republican party has always been in like -- indicate war and usually stop wars. , the nald trump's not for , he is like eace, he's not for people and he represents republican party. the republican party has always like a bit down on the racial thing. and, they're just not -- he indicates a lot -- host: why do you say that, david, what is an example of a policy that republicans have advocated or where do you see that? well, the republicans thing, like he said he wasn't racial or he supports the the republicannd party is down on the democrats, there, en obama was in obama indicate a lot of things had questions about im being an american citizen, born in american, and having the was can -- and trump basically german decent. point, david. howard in philadelphia, line for independents. go ahead. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i would like to know why or an will never do a story never have a conversation about child sex obus and child sex trafficking? last week operation cross ountry, 84 children were rescued, one girl was as young as three months old, you talk crisis, you oid talk about racism, you talk sun.t everything under the i've called in several times and you never will have a goingsation about what is on to children in this country. pizza gate is real. gate is real. host: hold off on pizza gate. certainly a ng legitimate issue to talk about, certainly not an issue we would from, always appreciate suggestions on topics. i'll make a note to myself to into the operation that you brought up. mark is in pennsylvania, line for republicans. go ahead, it's open phones. caller: good morning. yeah, i'm calling about the tax issue, the reforms and stuff. they're worry body jobs and corporations. pay $300 billion in taxes to begin with. what we should do is tie employment to the tax breaks. so in other words, the corporation makes a billion employ 10,000 people, they don't have to pay a tax. tax u give them a blanket break, they don't have to employ that, that is not what the that is wants, something he says he wants. lso on the second part of the taxes, this death tax, if they repeal that, they are basically giving the rich a huge tax not only a break, but tax evasion. let's say i owned $100 million would have to pay taxes if i personally sold them before my death on that sale. if you transfer to a family member, they can sell it at that y tax free point, if you want to fix that tax, all you have to say, sell you basically have to pay taxes on it, that would rotect family farms, protect businesses, if it is sold only. i think those things could be you'd have aented, lot of democratic support f. not, it will be a complete failure. we've seen it during reagan's time, they gave tax breaks, it the economy. help they started spending money on war-based economy, we saw the g.d.p. and it happened many time necessary our history, all you have to do is look at that. thanks for taking my call. host: we talked a lot about tax segment of e last "washington journal," showed you the president's op ed in today's on his tax plan. nother op ed, by jason ferman, former chairman of the white council under president obama from 2013 to 2017. no, the today, republican tax plan won't give you a $9000 raise, the white claim about the wage effects of corporate rate in don't add up, he writes his piece. helen, greensboro, north carolina, independent. go ahead. caller: yes. irst of all, i like your show, but i think you let people talk too long and you deprive other voicing their opinion. i've seen it where you let them five minutes, let them say what they got to say and go on. today is i have a people.of military i have three brothers that serve military, one served in the national guard, my uncle was in the army, my was killed in world war ii. there that was on earlier saying the republicans was in r, well, who war -- who was the president ii?n we had world war franklin d. roosevelt and this wilson, she's a disgrace to this country. setup and this life and the his go on and on, they and on and on, it's absolutely pathetic. you need to get the people the truth about everything. you, have a good day. host: you, too, helen. connecticut, line for democrats. go ahead. caller: yeah, one thing that has brought up in general kelly's announcement is that being communicated to about his son's death, he was communicated as a military a general, who is -- i shouldn't say used to know, it's in the arena. communicating as to a civilian, so the same message, never mind the messenger, has to be ommunicated a different way, but general kelly never looked at and none of the reporters on looked at theorks fact he was being communicated military to military. bluntness, the directness, the message is totally different than the way civilian.icate to a so thank you very much. host: janice, are you from a military family? no, but i've been a consultant to the military and done major ars and projects. host: have you taught or talked about this issue in that work the have you done with military? caller: not recently, no, but in many ss conversations. host: appreciate the call this morning, janice. elm city, north carolina, republican. go ahead. yes, i would like to see more stories about the fair tax. in congress now that could solve all the problems that the republicans they want to say solve, such as lower taxes on business, stimulation for the economy, bringing jobs to the workers.ates, helping the fair tax removes the income 23% s in places with consumption tax on new products services. this would help workers keep their whole paycheck and then a tax refund every month residents of the united states. host: andrew, when you talk about that tax, are there exceptions you would allow under the fair tax? designing that system, would you include any exceptions? exceptions. the pre-date or the tax rebate month would take care of untaxing all spending up to the poverty level. provides a tax refund to the egal residents of united states, amount of 231 dollars per doult and their 80 per child. so four people would be completely untaxed. harvard study says 22 cents out of every dollar we spend now is on sult of tax expenses businesses. businesses don't have taxes, hey have tax expenses, which raise the price of the products and services they sell. that was andrew in north carolina. talking about the way the president spoke to the widow of ladavid, the president tweeting about that topic this the ng, talking about conversation, he had that has become the focus of controversy, tweeting, i had very respectful conversation with the widow of johnson and avid spoke his name from the beginning and without hesitation. the president tweeting this the n.f.l., two dozen n.f.l. players continue to kneel during the national anthem, showing total disrespect to our flag and country, no leadership in the n.f.l. and the tweeting, there will be no change to your 401(k) talking about his tax reform effort. this has always been a great and popular middle class tax break stays, the and it president says, with exclamation mark. florida, acksonville, line for democrats. go ahead. caller: yes, first of all, i going to w they were say my whole name, but that's okay. c-span all, thank profoundly for c-span. said, i go along with president obama, he has disdain i do not listen to cable news. confeuusing when i eard mr. singer, who i greatly admir admire, helen thomas was amazing. also watched, but didn't see it entirely, when you all showed colmes seminar or 00 admire ou called it "new york times" and -- and i google your whatever and watch the entire thing. one thing mr. singer was saying and see, i fwratly admire all of these, they are basically on the same page. seng singer was saying that we listen to -- we read your local news coverage on this and that and the other. dean mccay said number one thing was really afraid of in the expresssiness or however that, greatly concerned about, was that local newspapers all country, he feels in the next few years will be folding up. nobody will know what takes place on the council, on the school board and so on. i don't see how we can do and then inger said what dean mccay said. ost: do you have subscription to the local paper in jacksonville? ander: i did, put my family i went through something in the '80s that kind of was disillusioning, both with the local paper. greatly admired the ones that were fighting. see, everybody in this country to absolutely realize, i believe, that our first the -- if i had to say the most important thing we mccay ing and like dean and marty barron said, all round the world, american journalism, i admire that more than anything. host: appreciate the call from morning.ille this on the issue of newspapers, we gallup poll out over the summer, confidence in 27% of titutions respondents saying they had a large amount of dmfdz newspapers, that is up 2016.20% in june of if you want to check out any of those events the caller was just talking about, marvin calmes appearance we showed on c-span other segments we've had available on our website, c-span.org, check it out through library. it's the 30th anniversary year of the video library, whether it or 30 years erday ago, you can check it out there. ike, oak grove, missouri, line for independents. go ahead. caller: thank you, john. i'd like to start off this by saying it was really reat to hear two real and dents speak last week the fact our country is bleeding morals. two of our military leaders in recent times have become liars, to take up for donald trump. a man who couldn't gig obama enough for playing a couple games of golf, on he's always on the field, the course. going ering taxes is not to bring money back to the united states. companies are over there because labor, not because of taxes, i believe. just really ashamed that our country is bleeding become liars.s you mike, who is a leader think could bring the country back? who would you vote for if you right chance to do it now? we lost mike. dorothy, line for democrats, cleveland, ohio. good morning. caller: hi, good morning, c-span. yeah. i first want to talk about the oldier's wife that, you know, the controversy about the congressman. all, that lady from weth carolina that said that ll had relatives to fight in wars and that the lady who lost her husband is pathetic, what is pathetic is this president. e started this whole controversy and what make its so ad, he not only started controversy with the congressman and we got a four-star general up for him, o take put himself into a position where he's become a liar, and then we have this lady in ohio talking about the congresswoman, kind of hat what she wore. what that got to do with what is soldiers.ith our not only johnson, but the other over soldiers that died there and this can turn into controversy. another thing, what i can't understand for the life of me, if they lose -- you don't like what you are hearing, but it ain't fake news when you you are hearing. if right now they said, we are to be bombed by north korea, everybody take to the basement. believe them? would you believe newscasters? ost: what do you think is fake news? what do you think is fake news? -- happens the r: no, i believe in ne newscasters eve in that put forth the news to inform us what is going on. donald trump. he wants everybody to believe his fake news so you won't all those lies he been putting across today. fake s fake news, he is news. host: dorothy, ohio. next 5 or 10or the minutes, line for republicans, 202-748-8000. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. want to hear what is on your comes to public policy. clay in monroeville, ohio. good morning. caller: yes, i have a question our what is wrong with banking and they forget about the seniors that worked all lives and save their money. a bank and wet in get a check from our social and what do they do, raise and take it payaway and it doesn't even for your copays and stuff. our interest, don't give you no interest for your money, everybody's money goes in they give you nothing. years ago, if you had a couple the bank, usand in you could live off of it. on save, save, save, save, now any money spent, you used to over nothing, ay as high as 17.5%, 15 -- and at last, 2008 or 2009, i was my -- your 5%, and you could, if you had a little bit money, you could buy a new car, you could pay your bills keep up with inflation. my bills almost doubled, i've 25 years and our bills have doubled in 25 years. call clay, thanks for the from ohio this morning o. u.s. gallup ce in banks, the report looking at various institutions. respondents of said they have a great deal or quite a lot of confidence in this past summer. that compares to twech % back in summer of 2016. one other institution that is that poll is 28% of organized labor, respondents saying they had uite a lot of confidence in organized unions, up from 23% in 2016. continue about this topic on what institutions hold them accountable said labor unions, as they look wages, workers with insurances, job protection, etcetera. pennsylvania, independent. go ahead. caller: yes. state that i st think it is appalling that we have this cable news and i'm not trump, i'm not for what was clinton, but all i see on there is just one group like fox news, republicans, we have msnbc, which is a joke, all they complain about trump and i think that what really dwighting the nation with our news reporting. factors and the this thing trump calling the the death of her husband, which is really sad, first thing that comes out, he's racist, this is what that will be. this congresswoman could have different man a matter than all the other problems in this country. we have people on cable news really, everybody is a white supremacist if you're a and i was in the vietnam era and i was stationed were lot of people that of color. as we were all categoried gre green. catastrophes, you see all different colors working together. of i see is a sad portion this country being divided by race and i think starting with think this continues you have people that can get on t.v. and talk about everybody that is whites other side needs to start stepping up. host: bob in pennsylvania. television lk about news, what the newspapers washington, d.c. are focusing on today from think george, utah, spectrum and daily waiting for trump's input is the headline, mcconnell wants about e on help, talking the healthcare issue, a topic we've talked about on this another paper from texas, the dallas morning news, focusing on stories hurricane recovery efforts in texas. survivors berate fema response. the front page of the los news, the demise of daca could cost states is the headline. now focusing on analysis showing billion perhaps 12.2 if recipients of daca aren't allowed to work. from page this morning papers outside d.c. what's on your mind? patrick, trenton, new jersey, for republicans, go ahead. caller: morning. host: morning. my topic is day of affirmative action and those who ave been a victim of affirmative action, i personally was affected by not getting a promotion. all things being equal, i was passed over simply because my color was white. so this is 25 years ago and what appened, i didn't move up in the company, i didn't go into management and i ended up getting fired. if i had promotion gone through at the time, i would have done fine, that would be a topic for callers to call in. affirmative action, over the years, let's face it, it comes down to race and what seeing by the government people.adblock for white the work place and many other areas, whites are treated as second-class citizens. you look how they treat our president trump, he's not even chance for a year in office and all the news is bad. impossibility. thank you, i'll listen in. ost: patrick, what do you do now? caller: i'm disabled as a result of work injury. host: what line of work were you in? caller: i was a truck driver with the highway department. i was moving al, up in the company, advancing, taking tests. tests, they ive called it. i came in four and 11 out of 650 men and because i was kicked out low enough and they seen me, and wish i was job and i still there and that would be a great topic for future, victims affirmative action, who did it hurt. host: patrick in new jersey. edward is in massachusetts, springfield, massachusetts, line for independents, our last call ahead. phones, go caller: yeah, hi. i'd like to talk about trump for minutes here. the people are talking about how donald trump is getting a bad wrap about this and a bad wrap republicans, you know, the guy lies almost lie.thing he says is a news,hey wonder why in the is always on trump and always on what he's doing. the guy and watch look at him talking and you can lying.'s if it wasn't for trump being the president and being in there, we wouldn't have none of this stuff, none of this stuff. trump wasn't president, we wouldn't have had a president with the fight football league. i think to myself, i'm a big next fan, what is the thing he's going to not let them pray before they race, find with that? the guy is just, should not be president, somebody should take him out and -- host: what are you implying by that, david? caller: implying by what? are you advocating violence? caller: no, somebody should step the d take him out of presidency, whoever can do it, hoever can do it, step up, get in there and get him, conway, sanders, now all these generals lying for him and lied for him. it's disgusting. have to end we there, in open phones. up next on "washington journal," our weekly "your money by apartment ed list, chris salviati to discuss has analysis of housing programs homeowners and renters. we'll be right back. >> tonight on the communicators, 2016a's involvement in the election with senior reporter julia angw in. > facebook has said they learned a bufrp of -- bunch of were placed by anonymous fits under accounts and they were olitically divisive ads, not necessarily aimed at one candidate or another, but just divisiveness on charged topics. >> watch communicators tonight 8 eastern on c-span2. >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's television companies and is brought to you today by your or satellite provider. > "washington journal" continues. host: each week in this segment takeashington journal," we a look at how your money is at work in a different federal program. by chris, we're joined salviati, housing economist at apartment list. talking about major federal housing aid xpenditures, in particularly mortgage interest deduction for homeowners, section eight rental renters.e program for chris salviati, before we get to that, explain what apartment do there.hat you guest: yeah, hi, john, thanks for having me on. the nation's is fastest growing apartment rental market place. 3 million renters every month. so over 110 million renters in united states and we're trying to help them out by reducing stress and difficulty finding a place to live. i'm hopefully turning that pain enjoyable an experience. i serve that mission by helping informed of issues that affect them and so we produce monthly rent estimate of cities across the nation and also produce more n-depth reports on specific housing related topics, such as the one we're discussing today. list.com, as we go through this specific report, we'll be talking about in this it is available at that website. line necessary segment for homeowners, 202-748-8000. renters, 202-748-8001. others, 202-748-8002. if you have questions, if you ant to share your story, phone lines are open to start calling in. chris salviati, when we're talking about the universe of assistance, where does the mortgage interest deduction section 8 fit into that? how much of the federal government housing aid does that represent? guest: yeah nthis report, we really focused on the two the mortgage deduction on the one hand for owners and rental assistance for renters. n terms of total federal expenditure on housing assistance, these are by far the programs, so the miad on the homeowner side, federal expendtur in 2015 is $71 billion, which actually well over double the amount we spent on section 8 which came in just under $30 billion. host: remind viewers what and what mid is. guest: for sure. that mortgage interest also known as mid, is tax benefit that allows homeowners with mortgages to reduce their taxable income by of interest they pay on mortgage debt up to a million dollars. so that's a benefit that can be homeowner with mortgage interest. section 8 is rental assistance income renters, so that's specifically targeted form of assistance for low households and this is 8portant to note that section programs are not entitlement, if you are eligible for benefits, guaranteed to receive them and in fact, only a small households income do receive section 8 benefits. host: talk about history of the we got to s and how those numbers where we are today in terms of the tens of billions each program? guest: yeah, for sure. the history of these programs is actually quite interesting. particularly on the side of the interest deduction. 16the mid has roots in the amendment, which established modern income tax in 1913. now at that time, all forms of but est were deductible, it's important to note here that at that time, it was extremely purchase a home with a mortgage. ost homeowners were purchasing in cash and the main exception actually, re farmers, and so by all indications, when congress made interest eductible, they were thinking primarily as a business expense. there is really no indication his was initially intended as benefit for homeowners, it when the il the '50s mortgage industry expanded after mortgage ii, that the industry expanded and this really came to be taking dvantage of more so by homeowners. over time, gradually came to be crucial to the health of the housing market and making politicalto sort of a third rail that it is today. expenditure , the on the mortgage interest deduction has really just as total outstanding mortgage debt has grown substantially. of section 8, the for subsidizing low income renter housing go back to housing act of 1937, but the programs didn't begin until 1974. time, that program has grown as well, but it's sort of section 8 vouchers have rown, it's been in tandem with the change and the mix of how those benefits are distributed. 8 has grown, other programs of public housing bit. ed a host: report on apartmentlist.com, imbalance in ousing aid, mortgage interest deduction verse section 8, there is a map there. several different maps and charts showing spending per household on federal housing expenditures. you can see darker households where it is more. you can see some charts in chris salviati's report on their website. that report, you recommend reforming mortgage interest expanding section 8. why? caller: sure. detail on themore findings to sort of explain conclusion comes from. so as i mentioned, the total expenditure on the mid is more than double the amount 8.at goes to section but beyond that disparity in total spending, which perhaps is the discrepancy in how that spend suggest amongst households at different income levels. o as i explained, section 8 benefits are programs that are targeted toward low income definition, 100% of that money is going to need the that really help. the other hand, mortgage nterest deduction is actually quite a regressive benefit. in our analysis, we found that mid benefits actually go to high income households, with midand he will low income households receiving just 9 and respectively. the reason why the mid is so can be explained by a couple factors. so first off, high income tend to own more expensive homes and so they imply have a greater amount of mortgage interest that they can deduct. secondly, because this is set up as deduction, the amount of you receive is directly proportional to marginal tax rate. igh income households have higher marginal tax rates, they see larger reduction in tax bill dollar of interest that they deduct. finally, many midand he will low homeowners, when filing their taxes, will find it in their interest to take the deduction and the mid is only available to those who itemize the deductions. household should take standard deduction, don't see mid.benefit from the host: two programs focus of our look at housing aid in this last segment of "washington journal," talking until 10:00 today, call comments.estions or line for homeowners, renters and we'll put on the screen. talk to sylvia in durham, north carolina. others.d, line for all caller: yes. i got a couple of things to state. on the mortgage, what about people that didn't pay cash for they worked all their life and paid for their it paid forally got to take e not allowed your property taxes for deduction? put me on the o because the ere state of north carolina, just government, eral they screw people. they steal their money. $750 billion from medicare, which i'm on and security, and he went out the dab's money for aarpartly cloudy. the people are more worth than stupid art. in north carolina. chris salviati, what did you want to pick up on from there? sure.: so thank, sylvia, for sharing your thoughts on that. guess what i would want to point out here is that when we reforming the mid, we're really not trying to take program away, we're just trying to make it more equitable reforms that the report i put out recommend would sure that greater share of that spending is going o low and middle income homeowners. as i stated a minute ago, we 85% of mortgage interest deduction benefits go households and so by restructuring the mid, as a credit, instead of a deduction, you could ensure standard take the deduction are still able to see a benefit from the mid. a long way of go making sure that the mortgage a betterdeduction does job of targeting benefits toward ow and middle income homeowners. at the same time, the savings hat you get from reducing benefits from the wealthiest americans would be enough that time also the same expand section 8 program for low renters. host: go ahead, finish your thought. guest: that was it. tax reformven't seen plan, the details of the tax is the lan that administration, republicans want to move before the end of the but as your understanding of this goes, where does the mortgage interest reduction stand? what is going to happen to it? guest: that's a great question. say that the initial trump tax plan that has been of ased, two key features that plan are one, doubling the amount of the standard deduction to eliminate most forms of itemized deductions, so that deductions for state and local taxes, medical income, as vestment well as others. so, the initial plan has stated mid will be kept in place, but they haven't sort of changes to how it would be implemented. form g it in its current with the changes that i just described, doubling the standard eliminating most forms of itemized deductions, it sohat does, would make virtually all middle income homeowners would find it in to take the terest standard deduction and that would leave the mid as a benefit be claimed by the wealthiest americans. pointed oute that i before, this is regressive most of those, most spending going to high income ouseholds, the trump tax plan, as been described thus far, would actually exacerbate that make it more regressive benefit. i think a lot of people are realize that and realize that this benefit, if going to the wealthiest segment of the population, it becomes much justify it in the way that it's typically justified, for is, it is engine middle class homeownership. is so i think that there some likelihood that before any there nges go through, would be some change in how mid.'re handling the so as i briefly mentioned, the proposed native being is to convert the deduction into a housing tax credit. would make it so that those folks who are taking the deduction are also able to claim this benefit and as i a much is would do better job of targeting the benefits towards low and middle homeowners. host: point viewers to apartmentlist.com, and some report, as we talk about the mortgage interest eduction and section 8 with chris salviati, of that group. he's housing economist there. left, we'll try to get through as many calls as we can. ancy, crawford, nebraska, homeowner. go ahead. caller: yes, i'm calling to hank you for the two journalists you had on earlier alking about licensing journalism and my experience as in red own newspapers states located in rural areas, relations and not properly informing the predator ut industries. host: all right, we'll try to housing the topic of aid in the time we have left. victor is a homeowner in lakeland, florida. victor, go ahead. caller: good morning. morning.d caller: i have a question. homeowners, the original thee of the house, is it in forecast to be transferred to house sent value of the at this time? guest: did you get the question? not sure if i follow that one. host: try one more time, victor. saying, what i'm i'm trying to find out, the house, it alue of the would be in the forecast -- yeah, victor, go ahead. caller: okay, what i'm saying, say, that if any time value of the house to the presented alue of the house at this moment? host: chris salviati, did you get that? i think from o what i'm getting out of that asking is that you're about what happens if the value of your price changes and how impact these benefits in relation to the original price that you paid for the house? about that is y that the mortgage interest relatedn is going to be to what you're paying on your actual mortgage. for e amount that you pay your house, if there is any type restructuring in the loan, then that new amount of mortgage would be reflected in the amount of benefit that you receive. i hope that answers that question. host: peaceful on twitter has a question. homeowners w-income exist? isn't that group shrinking taily? i'll let you answer that of the as i show one charts from your report about where the mortgage interest are targeted. those umn here showing low-income homeowner necessary blue. 4.2 billion of the total over $70 billion that is spent. ahead, chris salviati. guest: yeah, sure. you bring up a great point here, which is that it has become increasingly difficult for low middle income americans to achieve homeownership and so, as the pool of low income homeowners is one that certainly been shrinking and so that anothergets back to the motivation for some of the reforms that we're talking is that the mid some times you can rgue, putting undue focus on homeownership. the fact that all the spending s going to a benefit that is only available to homeowners, the renter population in this been growing at a pace that substantially outpaces homeownership he population. it sort of points to the idea we that and to rethink try to provide more assistance renters. so in addition to sort of expanding section 8 benefits, as mentioned, another idea proposed is what would be called renter tax credit and that is something that would essentially that similar way to the mid, it would be a benefit that you could claim taxes, but your targeted at low income renters. the turner center at u.c. erkeley put out detail prod posal for something like this that they called fair tax like that is ing an interesting idea, yeah, great point. homeowners that are low and middle income has definitely been shrinking. patrick in new york city, line for all others, go ahead. caller: hi. yeah, i'm my name is patrick atthew, i would like to know whether your guest this morning progress and poverty by henry george. mr. salviati? guest: i have not read that one. ask, patrick?you caller: well, i ask because i substantial s a argument that the problem is between capital and labor, wealth labor produces and the person that you're talking about who has a house land.ed the who owns the land? recreated as t be produce and reate wealth. host: all right, mr. salviati, pick up anything on that? guest: sure. i think i'm not sure exactly how that relates to the discussion having right now, but will say that it does sort of seem to feed into the point i was making before that we do make sure that we're distributing benefits equitably segments of the population and so, homeowners, know, they do owning a home wealth rimary form of creation for most americans and so there is some argument to be we want to promote that through benefit such as mid, but same time, we don't want to be giving benefits to high households that don't need assistance when there are renters out income there in poverty who are unable to access benefits. orville, indiana, line for all others, go ahead. caller: hi. a home.n't own housing.ed fairly nice apartments, they utilities.f the i had to wait until 62 to get in here. here almost four years. i paid in taxes and my wife died back, i had to sell the house and go and move in here three years ago. moved in, hud increased rent by $48, that was on the request from this royalty company that handles it. hree years later, they're asking for another $25 rent like se, which, that is what, $73 in three years and we letters and we just wonder what we can do to talk to and find out because we just rubber stamped, ruling company asking hud. can we do?you, what what more can we do? orville, thank you for sharing your story. mr. salviati combshgs advice on that? guest: yes. i'm glad you are able to access he benefits in receive help through subsidized housing. unfortunate you experienced rent increases over the past few years. terms of specific courses of ction for you personally, i am not sure that i'm expert enough interworkings of hud that i can provide much help there, will say is that i raise he issue that you is an important one and that it really goes back to what i was saying earlier about the programs being so severily underfunded. so another important thing to note here is that i think a lost they think of section 8 vouchers, think of rent as sort of free programs and it's really important to note that is not case. households who receive section 8 voucher are required to pay a portion of income toward their rent. the -- any sort of reductions we ee in the hud budget will only make it more difficult for households that are receiving benefits. fewer households receiving benefits, as well as greater expense for the that receive benefits. host: to that point, any concern expanding section 8 benefits would discourage people from getting out of section 8 into a home that they own? guest: sure. so i guess that could be a concern that people would have, think that these programs have inlly proved quite effective helping low income households that we important tool have for fighting homelessness and making sure low income to maintain e able safe and stable housing and so, said, these i households that receive section 8 vouchers are still paying a of their income toward rent, but these benefits are so targeted toward making overburdened byt housing cost. host: to the question of what is 8 housing? section is it to get people off section 8 housing to help for a limited is it to time or expand it to as many people and help as many people as possible? in your mind? guest: in my mind, i think first is probably the latter point that you made. s i said, there is really only a small share of low income renters that are eligible for actuallyefits that are able to receive them. and so in contrast to a program snap or food stamps, where if you're eligible for benefits nd you apply for them, you get them. there are millions of low income renters out there who are aren't able d just to access the benefits. i think the main thing we want to take away from the report, we're already spending he money on housing assistance at the federal level, we're just not doing a good job of equitable in an manner. as i said, most of the spending on the mortgage interest goes to high-income households. eliminate to actually the mid, only for households $100,000, the savings from the change would be could actually expand section 8 benefits for households me earning less than 50% of their rea median income, while also having enough left over that we could still expand mid benefits low and middle income homeowners. the money is already being matter of making sure that we're spending in a way. and equitable host: the report, imbalance in housing aid, mortgage interest section 8 erse available on the apartment list website. apartmentlist.com. salviati, is housing economist with apartment list, appreciate your time this morning. guest: thank, john. host: and that will do it for our program today. be back herecourse tomorrow morning, 7:00 a.m., pacific. in the meantime, have a great monday. >> congress is back today, the house meets at noon eastern for and at 2:00, legislative business, six bills to he cal know dar, one fentanyl.ggling of later in the week, they are expected to take up budget for the n passed senate, with final vote by thursday. ee the house live here on c-span. the senate is back 3:00 eastern, emergency funding bill for hurricane and fire relief, approved by the house already. procedural votes advance vote eastern. p.m. watch on c-span 2. coming up live today, conference countering violent extremism, featuring lawmakers and individuals, including steve bannon, former director, dave petraus. hudson institute, on our companion network, c-span 3. online at c-span.org, or listen with the free c-span app.o coming up later today, look at of the trump administration, press secretary sanders willcoming up later tot press coverage of the trump administration. white house press secretary sarah sanders will join a discussion with white house correspondence from fox news, cnn, and "the new york times" posted by george washington university. it gets underway live at 7:00 p.m. eastern. also at c-span3, online at c-span.org, or with the c-span radio app. >> tonight on the communicative, russia's involvement in the 2016 election. said that they learned that a bunch of ads placed during the election were placed by russian outfits under anonymous accounts and they were s, notcally divisive ad necessarily aimed at one candidate or another. >> arizona republican senator john mccain was honored by the national constitution center's 2017 liberty medal in philadelphia recently. before vice president joe biden delivered keynote remarks and presented senator mccain with war -- the award. this is about one hour and 20 minutes. >> ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the president and chief executive officer of the national constitution center , jeffrey rosen. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the national constitution center. [applause] >> it is an honor to welcome you on this meaningful location.

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