only saw him via video today. thank you so much for joining me. "cnn primetime" with abby phillip starts right now. hey, abby. >> hi, kaitlan. good evening, everyone. i am abby phillip. welcome to "cnn primetime". we have got one big development after another in that georgia election subversion case against the former president and his 18 codefendants. and tonight, we are learning that rudy giuliani is set to meet with fulton county district attorney's office tomorrow to discuss a bond agreement. that's according to multiple sources. and i will talk tonight with a giuliani adviser about what is ahead for him. plus, with trump's surrender looming, new bond agreements and last-minute legal maneuvers -- how a top member of the trump white house and a former doj official are both trying to avoid arrest tonight. which of donald trump's 18 codefendants did surrender today? and who reached bail agreements with the fulton county d. a.? and we've got new developments in the mar-a-lago case as well. and with 2024 just around the corner, president biden is as named the new white house counsel, as he's facing a special counsel investigation into his own handling of classified documents and the hunter biden investigation as well, as house republicans are eyeing a potential impeachment inquiry. we've got much more to come on all of that. but we begin tonight with a big night of trump legal news. here is -- first of all, there is mark meadows, who was trump's right-hand man in the waning days of his administration, and former top doj official jeffrey clark -- both of them trying to move their state cases into federal court. so that they do not have to surrender by this noon friday deadline. that, as the first two of the former presidents codefendants surrendered today at the fulton county jail. john eastman, the right-wing attorney who advised trump on how to subvert the election, and scott hall, a bail bonds man and a pro trump poll watcher in atlanta. meanwhile, we have a new filing in the mar-a-lago classified documents case. special counsel jack smith's office is investigating whether to trump employees gave false testimony to a grand jury. we will get to that this hour as well. plus, rudy giuliani is set to meet with a fulton county district attorney's office tomorrow to discuss a bond agreement. former new york police commissioner bernie kerik has been working with the former mayor to help him find a georgia lawyer to represent him in this case. but to start out tonight, i want to bring in an adviser to giuliani himself. joining me now is ted goodman. ted, thank you for joining us. we did just learn tonight that giuliani is expected to meet with the fulton county da's office tomorrow. how soon do you expect that he will surrender in this case? >> look, i don't know who is giving you that information. but what i can tell you is that -- i am not going to talk about the mayor's movements for security purposes -- however, discussions are happening. and, of course, there is a deadline for this friday. >> yeah. and you expect that he will be able to surrender by this friday? has he found an attorney to represent him in those bond proceedings? >> the mayor will be appropriately representative represented at every step of the way. and, of course, he intends to follow the law. >> so, ted, cnn is reporting that giuliani has gone to trump personally to help him get help with those legal bills. and those pleas from giuliani have fallen on deaf ears. he currently doesn't have a georgia attorney to represent him, according to our reporting, in the full case, not just the bond hearing, but the full case, because of his -- financial situation -- >> is that still the case -- >> that's not the case. i'm not sure where this reporting is coming from. and so, what i can tell you, once again -- the mayor is going to be appropriately represented in this case. and anything to the contrary, to me, is just fan fiction. >> is it not -- are you saying it's not the case that he asked trump for help with his legal bills? or not the case that he -- >> okay. well, there is one thing when you say, you know, did he ask the president for trump with legal bills. that's not how you portrayed it. >> so, did he ask the former president for help with -- legal bills -- >> look, i wasn't in the room. i wasn't a part of those discussions -- so i can't speak to what him -- >> so, you don't -- no -- >> again -- this is fan fiction. this attempt by some -- not all -- by some to drive a rift between the mayor, and the president, for example, when that is simply not the case. so, again, a lot of this is fan fiction. and it's just not true. >> you are describing it as fan fiction. but you also say -- >> well, yeah -- you weren't there so you don't know -- did he ask for help with his legal bills or not? >> again -- again, the way some are covering this in the media -- there is an obvious deliberate attempt to drive a wedge between america's mayor and the president. so -- >> so, ted, the let me ask you, does mr. giuliani want trump or his allies to do what they have done for other people involved in legal cases? which is to pay for a lawyer to help him defend himself in some of these cases? >> look, again, we are talking about, maybe, the most consequential federal prosecutor in american history. this is someone who took down the mafia. this is a man who put away some of the biggest criminals on wall street. again, we are talking about someone who understands the law more than, maybe, anyone in this country. and again, someone who has been as effective a prosecutor as anyone. again, he will be well represented and appropriately represented -- >> i understand what you are saying. but that's not what i am asking you. i'm just asking, simply, does he need help paying for his lawyers? and does he want that help from the former president? that's a yes or no question. >> again, so, i am here to discuss the mayor's background, of course, and to discuss what is coming up here in georgia. again, i am not here to discuss private discussions between the mayor and the president. that is not my job. and, again, some of this reporting we are seeing on this matter is intentional. and it is being done to try and drive a wedge between the mayor and the former president and to create issues -- where there is none. >> well, look -- you are claiming that it is intended to drive a wedge. but you are also not denying, based on anything that you might know -- >> go back -- >> true or not -- >> how did you originally asked the question -- >> let me ask you about a separate topic here. there is also the special counsel investigation into election interference at the federal level. and i want to just get an update here. has mr. giuliani received a target letter from the special counsel in that case? >> my understanding is he has not heard from the special counsel since we have last talked. and so, what i can tell you is that he has done the right thing all along. this is a man who has been proven right time and time again. and he will be proven right yet again in this matter. >> and is he concerned at all that he might face additional charges in that -- case? >> look, we are talking about someone who -- he had multiple -- >> i know exactly what we are talking about, mr. goodman. i know exactly who we are talking. i'm asking you -- is he concerned that he is going to be facing federal charges in that -- >> i can't speak to what the mayor is thinking inside of his head here. what i can tell you -- he knows everything he has done is legal and by the book. he has been proven right time and time again, whether it was the democrat russian collusion hoax, whether it was hunter biden's laptop, or joe biden's foreign corruption, time and time -- >> all right, mr. goodman -- >> these issues -- >> mr. goodman -- thank you very much for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> we will see later this week what happens with mr. giuliani. we appreciate it. and i want now want to bring in new york times congressional reporter, luke broadwater, cnn correspondent jamie gangel and a former trump white house lawyer jim schultz. jim, i want to start with you. this reporting on giuliani really speaks to something we have seen a lot of -- the people involved in some of these legal issues, which is that they need to find attorneys. some of them are struggling to deal with their legal bills. giuliani needs a lawyer with a georgia license to deal with this. what is your reaction to the fact that, at this late stage, he seems to not have someone to deal with the broader legal peril that he faces in this fulton county case? >> we are getting up until friday. he doesn't have representation as of yet that we know of. he needs to get representation. he can't go in there and defend himself as much as he believes himself to be a great lawyer and, for all the accomplishments we have seen in the past, when he was u.s. attorney, years and years and years ago, he still needs a lawyer. he is charged with serious crimes in georgia and he has been unnamed in an indictment. but -- identified as a coconspirator in the federal january 6th case, and so he certainly has lawyers engaged in january 6th case, or at least he did -- he went in and talked with the special counsel at some point in time. he's going to need lawyers in georgia. and he's going to need an attorney in georgia that can handle this case. this case is going to be very motion intensive and it's very going to be very expensive to defend. and i'm certain he's going to want to advance certain motions in this case. you can't do it without a lawyer. >> yeah, jamie, look, this is kind of interesting. because there are so many people who the trump super pac is willing to pay their legal fees for. of all people, rudy giuliani is not one of them? >> so, they are willing to pay some peoples legal fees, mainly donald trump has had the advantage of getting his legal fees paid, apparently. but this speaks to a bigger question, which we have known for quite a while. -- with donald trump loyalty is a one-way street. and as long as rudy was getting the job done for him, whatever that was along the way, he kept rudy close. now it has not worked out that way. what is, i think, crazy about it, from donald trump's perspective is, whether it is rudy giuliani or jenna ellis, who has also come out and ask asked for -- she has a gofundme page -- these are codefendants. they can turn on donald trump. they can flip. that makes it dangerous not to help them out. >> one of the other characters in all this is mark meadows and -- luke broadwater, you have a story with your colleagues at the new york times -- about the legal maneuverings here. it's really fascinating. because he's appeared to, chosen -- cooperate with the special counsel case at the federal level. at the state level, he appears to have not cooperated, was then charged, but is now trying to move that case into the federal system. so, what is mark meadows's game plan here? >> yeah, mark meadows has engaged in what we described as a risky high wire act. he has pretty much stonewalled the investigation in georgia. when he went in there with a grand jury he took the fifth a lot. he didn't cooperate very much. with the feds, though, he took a different strategy. he testified twice before the grand jury. and the second time -- now, after a judge's order -- he was much more cooperative. he told them some things that were helpful to their case. and if you read that indictment, as opposed to the georgia indictment, it says several things that are somewhat positive about mark meadows. it is not a clean win for him. but he seems to believe his bet way ways to be more cooperative with the feds. and now he is trying to move that georgia case federally as well, which he thinks is better terrain for him. >> could i just add something? this is a great piece -- that -- >> you should read it -- >> and everyone should read it. it gives a glimpse behind the veil of what we have all been wondering for a long time, which is, what is mark meadows doing? and where has he been also? you have the phrase, we are where has he been? quietly cooperating. and that's really at the crux of it. and there is more that we don't know yet. but i think the bottom line of this -- this is bad news for donald trump. because mark meadows was his chief of staff. he was in the room. he was on that call with georgia. he was in the white house on january 6th. he has a lot to tell. >> yeah, and our reporting is that he has been refusing to call trump. so, that has been making people in trump's inner circle very nervous about what he is up to. >> and now that they can read discovery, they may be even more nervous. >> there's no one closer to the inner circle of a presidential administration then the chief of staff. and having him sitting in that room and listening to that conversation is very important. but you did see mark meadows kind of sprinkled throughout that federal indictment. and if there is one thing he is trying to get this to federal court -- because he believes his lawyers are telling him that he believes this case should be taken federally because he was acting on the behalf of the president of the united states, acting in his official capacity, in the course and scope of his a pistol official position to -- >> do you think he is doing that so, that if it does get moved to the federal jurisdiction, that get it gets superseded by the fact that there is a special counsel investigation that has not charged him? >> i think he is trying to get before federal judges that we look at the supremacy clause and other things, that are going to look at that position as chief of staff, too the president of the united states, and to a thoughtful legal analysis as to whether that supersedes anything that is going on in the state level, because he was serving in his capacity as chief of staff and acting in the course of -- that is where the rubber is going to hit the road in that analysis as to whether he was acting in the course of -- the scope of his -- >> so, jim, i also want to play for you what john eastman who -- he also surrendered today. he made a statement outside of the jail. listen to what he said. >> it represents a crossing of the rubicon for our country, implicating the fundamental first amendment right to petition the government to four redress of grievances. as troubling, it targets attorneys for their zealous advocacy on behalf of their clients, something that attorneys are ethically bound to provide and which is was attempted here by formally challenging the results of the election through lawful and appropriate means, and an opportunity never afforded them or their clients in the fulton county superior court. >> ellis zealous advocacy. do you buy that as a legal defense? >> there is a line between zealous advocacy and being involved in criminal activity inurthering that criminal activity. and that isomething that john eastman is going to have to deal with when he goes -- when he's trying to push forward with this legal theory, and trying to push for the attorney-client privilege tax attacks and -- he is acting as his attorney. there are a lot of facts that are going to cut the other way on that. and he's going to have an uphill battle without. argument >> -- telling him, hey, get a lawyer, because what you are asking him to do is basically illegal. >> jamie, this week, actually, as early as tonight, we could see some mugshots here from some of these folks who have been coming in. trump is expected to surrender on thursday. what a moment that will be for us all. >> absolutely. john eastman said today that he does not have any regrets. i find that hard to believe. john eastman, rudy giuliani, these are men, no matter where they are today, they never imagined in their career that they would be facing arrest and arraignment on these felony charges. and i think that -- look, donald trump may use his mugshot to try to raise money because that is the sort of thing that he would do. but, for the rest of these defendants, this is really bad news for them. >> yeah, mark meadows is trying his best to try to avoid having to do one. but i suspect, he probably will by that deadline on friday. -- luke, jamie and jim, thank you all very much for joining us. and his boss faced deadly danger at the capitol on january 6th, next, marc short weighs in on the fulton county election case. and, what we can expect tomorrow, at that republican debate. my cpa told me i wouldn't qualify for the erc tax refund, so i called innovation refunds. their team of independent tax attorneys will work with your cpa to determine if your company is eligible. 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gab, mine is almost the same as yours. almost is just another word for not as good as mine. save 50% on the sleep number® limited edition smart bed. plus, 60-month financing on all smart beds. shop now only at sleep number®. >> republican presidential candidates are fine-tuning their strategies for a trump free debate. front-runner donald trump is planning to skip the event tomorrow, night as he prepares for his historic fourth criminal arrest. joining me now, in milwaukee is marc short, the former chief of staff to vice president mike pence. he is also a senior adviser to pence. mark, good to see you. you are in milwaukee for the debate. and i will get that in just a moment. but i do want to talk to you about these georgia indictments, and the surrenders that we are seeing this week. trump's former chief of staff, mark meadows is maneuvering in all these different ways to avoid some legal jeopardy, as it relates to all of this. and he is cooperating on the federal side, but trying to move the case is in georgia to the federal system. but i wonder, do you think that meadows should face any consequences, for his role in what transpired, in the lead up to january 6th? >> well abby, first, congrats on the new show. >> thank you. >> regarding mark, look, i don't think any of us relish witnessing what's happening with any of these people that we worked with. i think that in your last panel, i think it was fair to say that mark was a ringleader, of much of the events that happened around january six. he was somebody who was the president, sought to find additional attorneys, -- who gave advice different than the white house counsel. and it was very central to the events that happened on that day. and i think what's often missed in the coverage, is the weeks leading up to that, in which the vice president made it clear that he did not think that there was some magical authority invested upon a vice president of the united states, that has never been used in 250 years of our republic that allowed him to overturn the election results. and so, there have been a lot of conversations leading up to this. and mark was essential to pulling together many of those who were, i think, whispering falsehoods into the presidents ear. and so, i think that when you look at the federal indictment, and he is not in it. i think others on your previous panel, questioned whether or not there's been a -- involvement from mark with the special counsel's office. but as it relates to what happens in georgia, i don't think any of us relish seeing our former colleagues go through what -- likely is in store for them. >> and speaking of ringleaders, we also saw john eastman, one of the architects of the fake electors scheme. he surrendered today, but was unapologetic. he said he was acting on behalf of the former president. he called it zealous advocacy of an attorney. what did you think, seeing him walk into that jail today, after all that happened? and frankly, you are an adviser to pence. pence was physically put in danger as a result of all of this. >> sure. sure, he was, and i think -- storied career -- clermont institute -- advancing conservative causes. i think it's tragic to see, this is sort of the final chapter, likely in his career. but, i think you listen to his comments, and i think you can have it both ways. it's either, i'm advocating for first amendment rights to mislead the american people, i'm protected to provide falsehoods to the american people under the first amendment. or, it's, i have evidence that shows the election was stolen. and if only i could bring that forward, and i could prove that. and -- seems that where the president still, is despite the fact that there have been many recounts and many lawsuits, there is still the claim that i have evidence to prove it was stolen. but, which is? it it can't really be both. it's either, i'm going to prove the election was stolen. or, actually, i have a first amendment right to mislead, and that's what i'm protected by. and it seems like they are trying to argue both at the time. >> and so, getting to this debate tomorrow night. can we expect to see former vice president pence be a very critical of his former boss? here? >> well, abby, i think that he has been pretty clear and straightforward with the american people, about what his role was. it's been featured prominently in his book, and i think there's probably a different roll for everybody at that stage. i think for him, he has been a congressman, he's been a ceo of a state. he has advised the president in the situation room, he has enormous experience on the national debate stage. and so, i think you'll see that experience come through. but i think running for president, you know, it's sort of like a full body cat scan. and everything is scrutinized. i think you've seen that scrutiny of ron desantis the last couple months, that's dragged his numbers dowd. i think the last 24 hours, a lot more on the back. vivek ramaswamy. and cnn last night he's recanted going back and forth, and flip-flopping about whether or not he believes 9/11 conspiracies or not. but i'm actually more concerned about things that he hasn't flip-flopped on, such as proposing a 59% death tax, which is more than bernie sanders, or joe biden, or elizabeth warren has even proposed, much less the chutzpah to say, i never took the time to vote, myself on a presidential election in 2020, but i expect you to vote for me. and so, i think you'll see a lot more that scrutiny of the other candidates. whereas, i think, vice president pence has had that scrutiny at the national stage before. >> what do you make of trump's decision to schedule his arrest, for right after the debate? what message does that send to republican voters? >> well, i think that the reality is, with each indictment, there has been a rallying around the president among republican primary voters. i think the question is, does that continue or not? and, i'm not sure that i, that if i was in his camp, i would be advocating for a split screen of seeing other candidates on debate stage, and seeing him being arraigned in a courthouse. i'm not really sure that's the message that is the best for your voters. but, i would leave that up to them, that's nearly the script split screen that they've chosen, the juxtaposition that they want. and i think, over time we will see how that plays out. >> your boss, former vice president mike pence, what is his expectation, coming out of this debate? what does he want to accomplish, at the end of the day? >> i think that he has had the experience, again, of running a state, as well as the vice president of the united states. i think he knows that he has the experience to be ready on day one for the job. and i think probably, you will hopefully hear a lot of different topics. covered. i think he is the only candidate that has put forward a plan to combat inflation, to address the energy crisis, to address federalism. and he has several more going out, i think he's anxious to actually have a policy conversation, as opposed to the conversation of personalities. and so, i think he is looking forward to showing the american people the depths of his policy knowledge, and the acknowledgment that his experience shows he is ready on day one. for i think a lot of crises that face this country, abby. whether or not it's the highest mortgage rates in 20 21 years, or a crisis at the border, the likes of which we've never seen before. and i think that, he is better position to show that on the national debate stage against his primary opponents. >> all right, marc short, we will be looking forward to seeing what comes out of the debate tomorrow night, appreciate it, thank you. >> thanks abby, thanks for having me. >> and up next, new developments in the jack smith investigation, including including whether two trump employees gave false testimony about the mar-a-lago case. and, it relates to and and alleged effort to delete security camera footage, we will discuss that, next. let it pull you past the doubt. past the pain, and past your limits. no matter what, we go on. biofreeze every day, more dog people, and more vets are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. they're quitting the kibble. and kicking the cans. and feeding their dogs dog food that's actually well, food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. get 50% off your first box at thefarmersdog.com/realfood >> new tonight, prosecutors say a trump employee changed his story in the mar-a-lago classified documents case. according to a new filing from federal prosecutors tonight, an i. t. worker, whose attorney was paid for by trump's political action committee, initially told prosecutors that he didn't remember any conversations about security footage at mar-a-lago. but now, that employ appears to be cooperating with the special counsel's case. let's discuss this with senior justice correspondent evan perez, and former nixon white house counsel and cnn contributor john dean. so evan, i want to start with you, what are we learning from this filing now? it's interesting that this showed up, at this particular stage, in the investigation. >> right. well, what's happening is that the prosecutors are trying to have the judge overseeing this case, pay attention to potential conflicts, that they see exists, because stan woodward, who is a lawyer paid for, as you pointed out, by the former presidents political operation. he is representing walt nauta, who is the former presidents aide, close aide, who is also a co defendant in this case. and, he is representing a couple of witnesses, who may be called to testify at this trial. and, what emerges in this filing is, it sort of gives an explanation of why prosecutors added those additional charges against the former president. and, against these other aides. and, they say this information came from this i. t. worker. his name is use -- yuscil taveras and he was also represented by stan woodward, the same trump funded lawyer. and, after he made those initial statements, saying he didn't know anything about the surveillance tapes, he changed his story, after he got a new lawyer, a public defender. and said that not only was the president involved, but walt nauta, and of course carlos de oliveira -- property manager -- change in the story was really what made prosecutors bring those additional charges. >> yeah, that superseding indictment. john, i want to hear your take on this. because it seems almost -- you know, it's too cute by half, that the trump team thought, let's pay for all of the lawyers, and make this easy on ourselves. but it turns out that kind of backfired, in this case. what is your take on what happened here? >> it certainly backfired during watergate. that's how information was fed throughout all of the defendants, was through joint defense agreements, and it resulted in, if anything, aggravating the cover-up. i'm not charging that the there is a cover-up here. but, they are certainly showing a lot of information. and that's what the government wants to do here. they are calling the judge, on judge cannon, to have what's called a garcia hearing. and that means, that's old, law -- it goes back to 1975, where a defendant like walt nauta, is entitled to know, in an open hearing, or part of it could -- be theoretically, what the conflict is. and, what his lawyer may or may not be able to do, in cross-examine witnesses who are against him. that is not clear at all right now. it's really not a very attractive position for the lawyer to be in, because you cannot have a conflict between your clients. and, there's certainly appears to be a very serious conflict for stan woodward, with his prior clients and witnesses and waltz nauta. >> so, john and evan, just as we are speaking here, we are just receiving now, into cnn, the first mug shots from the folks who surrendered today. that is john eastman you are seeing there, on the screen, i believe. and that is the first of the two mugshots that we have received. we also have a mugshot here from scott hall, who is one of the other co-defendants in this case. these are the first looks that we are getting of what we could potentially be seeing for several other people this week, including a former president. >> -- >> including a former president -- i mean, they look here pretty much like anybody else who might find themselves in a county jail facing criminal charges. >> well, they are allowed -- to in the case of john eastman, it appears he wore his suit and tie for his mugshot. sometimes in the county jail, they have to put on -- it depends on if they are being detained, along their might actually be wearing prison garb. and so, we were told today that he was allowed to wear his suit and tie. and obviously, it was a prearranged proceeding today, where he had his bond set, he was in and out, i think, in about an hour. so, this was something obviously, that was a lot more smooth than, for many other defendants, who might go through that facility there in fulton county. >> yeah i mean, it's really interesting. evan, as we are getting these mugshots in, you were just talking about the suit and tie. we had heard earlier this week, that a similar thing could happen to trump. that, he could just be sort of be able to keep what he has on. they will do the photo though, because in the federal case, and in the new york case, they we're like, we know what this guy looks like, we don't need to take a photo. >> right, i think in the new york case, there are big concern was that if they took a photo, it might leak. and in the federal case, they said we don't really need it, because after all, he is one of the most recognizable faces on the planet, right? but, i think the reason also is simply, they didn't want the whole spectacle of, it the possibility of it leaking, in the cases of georgia. georgia law allows for the release of these photographs, for the booking photographs. and so, we anticipated that this was going to happen. i'm surprised that it took this long, because i mean this happened hours and hours ago. and the state of georgia says that this is releasable pretty quickly here. >> yeah john, i want to bring you in on this. because one of the factors in this georgia case, is that you are not just seeing trump here, you are seeing all the people around him. they are alleging a conspiracy. and, we are going to see government officials, and people, lawyers who have long legal careers, like john eastman for example, showing up at a county jail, and getting their mugshots released. i mean, put this in the context of all that you have lived through, from watergate on to the present day. >> conspiracies are a favorite crimes for prosecutors, because they hold everybody who is in the conspiracy to the overt acts and the crimes of the other coconspirators. richard nixon was an unindicted coconspirator, as a result, all of the evidence of his tapes were submersible, admissible when he was addressing issues related to the watergate cover-up. that will happen here, where trump will be responsible for people, i'm sure he probably doesn't even know, or had never heard of before this case. so, these are, particularly in a rico case, where they are charged with forming an enterprise. and, i'm sure they are going to be t-shirts with all these pictures on them. and the rico t-shirt will be a collectors item one day. so, it's not a pretty look. and, i noticed none of those men were smiling, neither of them are smiling. some people pose well for their mugshots, others not so well. >> that's certainly -- no laughing matter -- >> trump says he wants to fund-raise off of this. >> yeah, and i think some of the reporting earlier in the new york case was that he considered even creating merchandise. >> i think they did yeah, briefly they created a fake one, they did. and they were trying to fund-raise off of it. so that is possibly what we might see. >> but look, this is very serious. i mean, we are talking about jail time here, potentially, for these individuals. the mugshots are just the beginning of the story for these two, and the other co-defendants in this case. evan perez and john dean, thank you very much for doing all that with us. >> thank you abby. >> and amid legal troubles for president biden and his family, the white house is now changing up its top legal counsel, bringing in a familiar face from the obama administration. so, are they preparing for a big fight? we will discuss that, ahead. and struggle. and struggle with cpap. you should check out inspire. no mask. no hose. just sleep. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com listen up, you dogs with allergic itch! today's talking lesson is just one word: apoquel. ap--o--quel. ♪ you can't teach your itchy dog to talk... ...so, talk to your vet about apoquel. apoquel is for the control of allergic itch in dogs. do not use apoquel in dogs with serious infections. apoquel may increase the chances of developing serious infections... ...and may cause existing parasitic skin infections or pre-existing cancers to worsen. new neoplasias have been observed. i'm glad we speak the same language. ask your vet for apoquel. that's why comcast business de is launching theal. mobile made free event. with our business internet, new and existing customers can get one year of unlimited mobile for free. it's our best internet. powered by the next generation 10g network and with 99.9% reliability. plus one line of free mobile for an entire year. it's the mobile made free event-happening now. get started for just $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get one free line of unlimited mobile. comcast business, powering possibilities. >> president biden tapping a new white house counsel, his administration announcing today that former white house attorney ed siskel will step into the role next month. he wilsueed current white house counse stuart delery. siskel served for nearly four years in the obama biden administration, where he oversaw the obama white house's lel response to the congressional oversight, and complex challenges, like the rollout of the affordable care act. i want to bring in now cnn senior political commentator and host of "the ax files", david axelrod. david, we are talking about ed siskel here tonight. but just before you came on the air, we got those mugshots of two of those codefendants in the georgia case, john eastman and scott hall there. it just strikes me that this is going to be some 2024 election cycle. you've got the white house gearing up for what is going to be 360 degrees of legal battles, and also this, mugshot from the former president -- associates -- >> abby, i am just guessing. this is not the first time you have had that instinct, that 2024 is going to be something. no -- we are in completely uncharted waters here. we have a front running candidate who is so confident that he has chosen to skip the first presidential debate last night, who has got to the largest lead that i have seen in a very long time. no one has ever lost who has had a lead this big and national polls in this point, but who is under four separate indictments -- 91 felony counts -- and he's going to be running from arraignment to trials. there will be -- apparently there will be a mugshot of president trump. i am sure that it will very quickly be on t-shirts among his supporters like those old che guevara t-shirts that used to be popular in the 60s and 70s. so, it is a very strange and unsettling environment. and i think we have got to get used to it. because that's the way this whole year is going to roll. >> yeah, and it's one that this incumbent president -- president biden -- will have to, at some point, contend with. what is your take on the choice to name ed siskel to this white house counsel role? what does it tell you about how this white house and maybe even the biden campaign is preparing to position themselves going into this next presidential cycle? >> well, look, i think it is a sensible thing to do. back in 2011, almost at exactly the same, time a couple of months earlier, bob ballor left the white house, and they named kathryn ruemmler -- president obama did as his white house counsel -- kathy was a very tough and experienced federal prosecutor and she basically -- he was going into a campaign. he knew that the republicans in congress who are going to use the congress and the powers of congress to try and -- and frankly muddy him up and that there would be a hail of up subpoenas, whether baseless or not, there would be a hail of subpoenas, and you better have a tough and experienced person in charge to over see that process. and i think that is exactly what joe biden has decided here. ed siskel has that experience of being in the white house. he also was the corporation counsel for rahm emanuel in chicago, very tough and experienced and smart guy -- probably a very smart guy. probably a very smart move. >> it seems to indicate, also, they are not brushing this stuff off, right? >> you can't. i mean, even -- look, we had a benghazi. we had solyndra -- and those were two that i think he was involved in. neither of them amounted to anything in the end, over many, many investigations of various committees were launched. and they basically lasted as long as the campaign, and when they outlived their usefulness, they disappeared. and so, you know, i think you've got to be ready for that. there is a public facing piece of this but there is also just the process of how do you respond to the subpoenas? are they appropriate or not appropriate? what countermeasures should you take? these are things you want an experienced hand there to be there too judge. >> yeah, a lot of blocking and tackling that goes on behind the scenes. >> a lot of it. >> especially when it comes to that paperwork. david axelrod, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> goodbye, abby. good to see you. >> you as well. and we will be right back. ♪ chevy silverado has what it takes to do it all. with up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? 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[whip sound] take the first step to see if your small business qualifies. >> and our breaking news tonight -- the fulton county sheriff has just released the first two mugshots in a wide ranging rico conspiracy case brought against former president trump and 18 other codefendants. the first is john eastman, the former presidents attorney, on the left, and also scott hall. he is a bail bondsmen who is was tied to part of that conspiracy as well. hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ to have and to hold from this day forward. ♪ you don't... ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side.. ♪ ♪ i'll be there.. ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪ listen up, you dogs with allergic itch! today's talking lesson is just one word: apoquel. ap--o--quel. ♪ you can't teach your itchy dog to talk... ...so, talk to your vet about apoquel. apoquel is for the control of allergic itch in dogs. do not use apoquel in dogs with serious infections. apoquel may increase the chances of developing serious infections... ...and may cause existing parasitic skin infections or pre-existing cancers to worsen. new neoplasias have been observed. i'm glad we speak the same language. ask your vet for apoquel. when you find your reason to go on, let it pull you past the doubt. past the pain, and past your limits. no matter what, we go on. biofreeze subway's now slicing their meats fresh. that's why subway's proffered by this champ. and this future champ. and if we proffer it, we know you'll proffer it too. he's cocky for a nineteen year old. >> and that's it for me and "cnn primetime". "cnn tonight" with laura coates starts right now. laura, as always, there's quite a lot going on. >> you know what's going on right, now abby? i literally in trying to get my microphone on because i'm so ready to have this conversation but it's live television. and so, what's going to happen is, i'm just going to show america how you actually do it and -- behind the scenes -- >> this is behind the scenes -- >> we life. i was telling you -- this is what happens. look at that -- ready to drop the mic -- >> and now you are ready to give them all the legal -- >> abby, as sammy davis junior once said, i can only be me. what are you going to do? good evening everyone, i am laura coates. nice to see, you abby. -- buckets have now been released tonight for the first two of the former presidents codefendants to surrender in the georgia -- case. john eastman and also scott hall. here they are right there. and we are now just two days away from donald trump's expected surrender at the fulton county jail after, of course, being criminally charged, allegedly trying to overturn joe biden's election victory in the state of georgia. meanwhile, mark meadows -- you know who that is, of course. he is trying a now last-ditch by that friday noon dead. and you got a dozen defendants, including the former president. they've all struck bond deals that have been signed by a judge. a dozen is not 19.

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