surrender at the fulton county jail after he realized he was criminally charged for allegedly trying to allegedly trying to overturn joe biden's electors victory in georgia. two sources telling cnn that he plans to turn in and be process this coming thursday. that date was that during negotiations today, apparently with the dea, on the rules in her office over his consent bond and release condition. we'll talk about what that really means, but the bottom line is that he -- a 200,000 dollar bond, and operate of his codefendants also began reaching their own bond agreements. this case is now marking the very first time that release conditions for trump have included, first of all, a cash bond, and also a prohibition at the outset on intimidating codefendants or witnesses and victims, including through social media. i want to bring in cnn legal analyst norm eisen, and we're going to have -- what we learned about this bond agreement. you talk about this all the time about what to expect. first of all, that big number, 200 grand. is that fair, is that expected? >> laura, i do think it is fair and i think it is expected. in one sense, it is low because that is not number that is very meaningful to someone of donald trump's wealth. in folding county, georgia, the way they do these bond amounts is they set up by count and donald trump runs all through this complaint, this indictment that the fulton county d a fani willis has put forth. >> the more charges, the higher the bond? >> exactly. the highest amount is actually for the most serious of the charges, the one that unifies the indictment. we talked about it a lot. the rico charge, that is $80,000 in bond and then $10,000 per each of the other charges. it totals up to about $200,000. i think it is fair and reasonable under the circumstances. >> let's compare it to others, because -- in fact john eastman came in earlier today, if we look at the other people who are part of the 19 slate of co-defenders there, intentional state of electors, there you have the codefendant bond agreement and you've got john eastman, 100 grand he is supposed to pay. ken is chesebro 100,000, ray smith and scott hall lower at 50 and ten respectively. why? >> well, trump was the alleged ring leader of is this rico conspiracy and the other crimes. let's remember, he and all of his defendants depicted here are innocent until proven guilty. as a former prosecutor and former defense lawyer we know that we'll. trump is the ringleader, he gets the highest amount. but, as a federal judge in california said, judge david carter, a very distinguished jurist, this was an attempted coup in search of legal theory. trump allegedly used lawyers and so you have two of those lawyers, two of the one -- >> chesebro, eastman. >> chesebro and eastman, there are the ones accused of cooking up this scheme, allegedly, to come up with a fake electoral slates, to use them, disguise mike pence to try to get him to do, really outrageous and unlawful acts of essentially suspending the counter. even recognizing trump in congress when he won. >> eastman of course, i don't want to cut you off, but eastman would say that this is a matter of scholarly debate. that is what his bar council lawyer is talking about, this, he was not trying to be unlawful, he would suggest it was all about legal matters. he is opening on a lot of this. i know you don't buy that. >> no, it was not a matter of scholarly debate. there is no legal basis whatsoever, it is absurd to suggest that the vice president who has a purely ceremonial role in congress can suspend the count. can, perhaps, recognize the electors of the loser of the election, can send it back to state legislatures to overturn the vote of the people. i mean, that is crazy. there is no bases, legally, for that. and then you have lesser figures and there are a lot of them. there are 19 codefendants in this complaint who are accused of lesser amounts of misconduct. smic, more than haul. so smith got the 50,000 dollar amount, and haul the 10,000. >> i want to compare on that point, i want to go to the next slide, people are looking at this it is the bond release conditions and what he can or cannot do. i know that this is how it is all playing out. look at this, it's the first time that we are seeing donald trump with bond conditions at the outset. before, it was having to go back to the court to say now maybe a truth social post has come out, or otherwise we need to tweak something, your honor, most recently under judge chutkan. he cannot have any threats on social media now. he cannot have contact about the facts of this case with the codefendant witnesses, the victims as well and the community. what do you say to that? >> i think that it is very attuned to the lessons of donald trump's reaction to the three prior arrests and arraignments, where he has continued, very active. specifically the conditions of release, specifically talking about social media, and it is a very 21st century bond agreement. it even says that he can't post or re-post. he can't forward the posts of others on social media that have this effect and, laura, here perhaps it is the two most ominous words in this entire agreement. direct or indirect. each of these categories that we see here is limited to no direct or indirect. what is an indirect threat to these witnesses, victims, codefendants, unindicted coconspirators? you know, donald trump is very free and easy on social media. that is a line that he just may cross. and then we'll see what happens. >> speaking of how modern this is, when i was prosecuting we would say the worldwide web. we're far from that. even though he has all these legal challenges, there's a debate coming up on wednesday, some of the people who are running to oust him from the front of the rnc are talking about how they would really pardon him, or whether they would offer a pardon if they were elected president. listen to what they are already saying, as we talked to the rest of our panel. >> my top job is to unite this country, and my way of doing that is going to be departing donald trump on day one. >> i take the pardon authority very seriously. it is an enormously important power of someone in executive position, and i just think it is premature to have any conversation about that right now. >> we need to believe in our judicial process in this country, or we don't. we either stand by the rule of law or we don't. >> would you commit to pardoning him on any federal charges against him? >> what i've said is very simple, i'm going to do what is right for the country. i don't think it will be good for the country to have an almost 80-year-old, former president go to prison. >> so that's a yes? >> we shouldn't be promising and holding out for the big leaf of a pardon because it undermines our jury system. >> i want to bring in washington correspondent for the journal of constitution, tia mitchell. also, former associate white house counsel to george w. bush, and jamele jaffer, and former fbi deputy director of peter, he's also the author of compromised, counter intelligence and the threat of donald j trump. since you wrote the book, i'm going to start with you on this very notion, peter. because, first of all, you have seen, really, and you have incurred the wrath of donald trump overtime. when you talk about the bond conditions say, look, no intimidation, to norm's point, direct or indirect, no threats and beyond, you have been an fbi agent. how realistic is that that he'll be able to follow? but >> look, the best predictor of future actions, past behavior. given what trump has done, there is absolutely no worry that he's going to be able to honor these terms of release. the question is, when he invariably violates, at what happens then? i would be hard-pressed to see an and re-federal court a judge bring somebody in and throw the book at him, saying you're going to jail. you were detained. at a state level, our county level, i suspect it is probably the same thing, but i expect, a, trump is not gonna be able to heses. an violate it, we will see a slowly escalating response by the court to try to get him back in line. but you are asking something that is inherently not in his nature, it has not been in his nature most of this professional life. it is going to come to a conflict. >> you tell a baby not to cry, in some respects. but it might accelerate, you are talking about judge chutkan who said, look, the more that you talk, the faster this court date is actually going to come. maybe a bit of reversed psychology happening in that realm, but when you look at this, imagine your his lawyer. did anybody shadow this just now? imagine you are his lawyer for a moment, how are you going to make sure that i don't overcomplicate or make my case even more complicated in any of these different venues? because what he says in one could be interpreted to mean other cases as well. >> no t part of the thing that s lawyers want to do is to complicate these cases. they want to extend this thing, and started out as long as possible. a new norm believes they're not gonna be able to do that, they're trying to get this thing happening in the near term. but the lawyers are going to work really hard to create as much noise, and throw as much sand in here as as possible. they want to stall this thing, the longer it, goes the better it is for trump politically, the more likely it is, if he is elected, to get rid of some of, not all, of at least the federal charges if he gets elected and can get the justice department off his back. >> call me naive, but it might be good for him politically, but what about the voters? they, in many respects, want to have some level of resolution, or at least some insight as to whether this is going to be the albatross around their neck going forward for all of their policy discussions, or whether they are going to be able to wipe clean away. you cover atlanta, you know georgia all so well in all of your journalism. tell me, what do you think the people of atlanta are thinking about, in fulton county, as it relates to this case over the others? >> number one, i think of the people of a and fulton county want a safe procedure. they don't want violence, they don't want a january six coming to the city, they want to see the justice system play out in a way that is fair, fair to donald trump, fair to the 18 codefendants, but that keeps everything in the courthouse. so, i think the people of atlanta are little bit nervous about our approach, our supporters going to show up? is there potential for. whether they start turning themselves in, in a broader sense of what the people of atlanta want is what the people of america want, and that is accountability. as we've seen in recent polling, and people say that they do think trump should be held accountable. they actually believe that these charges are worth pursuing, at least, again, to let him have his day in court and let's get all the facts out there. but is georgia unique and? that they all sort of held the line. they didn't even count the campaign with donald trump. well, anyway, we look at all of this norman, and we think about the timing of. it it is one thing to have accountability, but accountability seems to lose steam if it is farther away from the present time. >> well, it is better to have it sooner. i do think that we are going to get at least one, and maybe two of these trials in in 2024, so that will be some accountability. the georgia case is uniquely important for accountability because it is not pardon a bill. and we saw those clips. i mean what has to come to in the united states when you have major political figures for speaking up against the accountability and against the equal application of the laws. hundreds and hundreds of these insurrectionists tried in d.c., and going to jail. why should it be alleged ringleaders have their day in court. georgia cannot be pardoned away. it's okay if the georgia, case the bigger case takes a little longer i think we're gonna see that jack smith case move like lightning and that will put the federal 1/6 case in the cells of some of the others. >> how do you see it? >> i think it's gonna be interesting for a couple of reasons. one, there's overlaps and people have been charged. look at mark meadows, he is not charged. he's not even presumably one of the unnamed coconspirators in the federal indictment out of d.c.. he has been charged down at atlanta. so if you're one of these people who have exposure in both, either as a subject or as a witness, you have to make a calculation on whether or not you're going to cooperate with the authorities, whether it's state authorities, or federal authorities. obviously, if you don't cooperate and trump's elected you could get a pardon for federal crime but you're not gonna get that at the state level. so it will be interesting to see if we have dual, one federal, and one state case and moving to get that. once where you have people who are in different roles and that's certainly going to be interesting. and again, in the north, point those are going to be the people at the higher level. the ones who are immediately in contact with trump. one took it either make the case projects, mitt or who can end up being charged alongside up to trump. >> fascinating, everyone thank you so much. always a pleasure to hear your input and insight here. donald trump is now facing some pretty severe restrictions on what he can and cannot say. particularly on social media and what is that going to mean as he's right in the middle for running for president. well, we're going to talk about that, next. with new scope squeez mouthwash concentrate, just add water. squeez to control the strength of your mouthwash. and find a zone all your own. ♪ ♪ scope squeez. ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪ ) constant contact's advanced automation lets you send the right message at the right time, every time. ( ♪ ) constant contact. helping the small stand tall. if you struggle. and struggle. and struggle with cpap. you should check out inspire. no mask. no hose. just sleep. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com well tonight, former president trump is preparing to surrender on criminal charges in georgia. he's going to do it apparently on thursday. and there is a historic development. because after he was indicted there for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election, well guess what, they had a host of rules under the bone agreement. i want to bring in contributor, and several white councillor, and season special watergate prosecutor jon sale. nice to see you both. i've got two jobs it looks like today. nice to see and have both of you here with me, we're gonna begin here with you, john because it is interesting to me what is happening because this obviously is happening in state court. but there are discussions about the possibility of removing it as they say to federal court. in fact, mark meadows, the former chief of staff -- to be dismissed because he said it was all under the color of his position. all under his role as a federal government employee. are you buying that at all? >> well it is a good -- >> is that for john dean? >> okay, that's the j o h and. >> go on john. >> let me give a shot at it. >> i am one who does not think the meadows motion will succeed. i think that it will be turned down while he was in a federal position, he wasn't undertaking work of the white house when he went to georgia to get involved in the georgia election. that is not part of the job of the white house chief of staff. so i think it's a region they're going to have a hearing on this shortly and i think it's going to come out that he will not qualify as a federal employee to bring that removal action. >> i mean after all, the idea of election is for the states, it's hard to understand that chief of staff, the white house, to be doing allegedly meddling by rudy giuliani chan chase bro, john eastman, sydney powell, these are all codefendant in the georgia case and i'm wondering what do you make up their potential defenses because in order to remove anyone in federal court you have to have some sort of viable federal defense. that there is a common theme here. these are attorneys as well. until, what do you think might be their defenses going forward? >> well giving them a license doesn't give them the ability to break the law. i mean the removal, one of the underlying premises is acting legally under the law, for the president. and my old friend, john dean will remember that his boss, if he had contended he was immuned and he would've served 18 months in prison for doing the president's bidding. so i think that each person has a different defense. but i mean there's another interesting thing, which i don't think people talk about. donald trump has a claim that he has an advice of counsel offense but he has to get advice of counsel offense. and he can argue that district attorney has taken away that defense because every one of the lawyers who gave me advice is a codefendant and so i am not now going to call them to testify. because they're gonna be sitting at a council table with, me they're gonna fifth amendment privilege. and all of these cases are gonna have to be separated, and in each case have to be trialed on the merits. we call that severance. >> well john cell, i was hoping to get your advice on this. because i always thought, by virtue of, that i can council defense its that's up quite the acrimonious contentious relationship, right? because the privilege, normally would exist. the crime fight would've suggest that if you are engaged in a crime together, you don't get that same privilege. and even if you set that aside for a second, are you suggested by virtue of a codefendant that donald trump would be in a better position to say that he cannot mount a viable defense because his attorneys wouldn't even have the opportunity to say they acted in this way, they couldn't test to find the same way because that privilege does belong to the klein. >> that is. right but in order to confirm or cooperate whether or not they gave him advice, whether he disclosed everything to them, whether he relied on that advice he certainly would want to call lawyers. saying that it was the advice that they gave me. and he doesn't have the ability to call them not through any fault of his own but because they're all doing together. so in this case it's going to be litigation even though it's prove that the atlanta georgia case, when you have 19 defendants, there's a rico case going on right now a length, a brought by the same district attorney, and you can't imagine how this is happening but it's been taking them six months to picture -- i think some of the other cases do have a shot long before the election. >> well john dean, on the point, the other john that i was talking about. and the idea that attorney client privilege strikes me that we only talked about a mere fraction of the people who are also codefendants. and total of 19 people. and the other cases we have seen, against donald trump, whether it's been mar-a-lago and whether it's happening out of washington d.c. in the january six as it's coined as a criminal indictment i wonder what this growing web is. there's a yearbook photo, on the screen right now as we're conversing are using that as just how many people in trump's orbit are being pulled into this. and by the way people who we've known, about mark meadows and many other of these people, the names household names, to most people for any reason. >> well, actually, the watergate special prosecution force pared down the major trial and watergate to cover up the trial. in which nixon was an unindicted coconspirator. that helped get his tapes into evidence but there they have the chief of staff, the former top domestic advisor and the former attorney general and some lesser lights but it wasn't a packed courtroom, there was a 19 i think it was six or seven at one point and some of them got severed and dropped later. so the process of litigating these things are sorted out. i don't believe that 19 people are going to go to trial on this case. first of all i think some of them are gonna likely flip on the prison system in georgia is notorious for being a hellhole and nobody wants to spend a day there. so as i say, i think some of them will cooperate. and others may find legitimate reasons to suffer. some might go to federal court and some would say a state court and it is still a state case just child in the federal building >> that's a really important point, i want to remind the audience that we talk about removal and i would go to the northern district of georgia. but they would still have the state prosecutor. a state law and if convicted under that state event the person would still have an on pardon-able offense. right? >> yes. >> a man of few words, john dean, jon sale thank you so much for being here. both of you. >> thanks, and nice to see you john. >> thanks. nice seeing you john. >> well that was pleasant, i love the communication. most of the republicans are taking the debate stage on wednesday have something in common. and you may not have even noticed. but will that give them an advantage? i'm gonna tell you what it is. getting a look at the cliff-hanger, that is next. i need it cool at night. you trying to ice me out of the bed? baby, only on game nights. you know you are retired right? am i? save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart d. plus, free home delivery when you add a base. shop now only at sleep number. ♪(epic music)♪ my renaissance was daring to dream. 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(♪) how white do you think your teeth really are? let's try the tissue test. ooof, still yellow. whitening toothpaste can only do so much. there's toothpaste white, and there's crest 3d whitestrips white. so much whiter! crest. when you find your reason to go on, let it pull you past the doubt. past the pain, and past your limits. no matter what, we go on. biofreeze well, the first 2024 republican presidential debate is kicking off this coming wednesday. the field is big. eight candidates are fully qualified now to participate in this debate. and out of those eight, drumroll please, six are or were governors. florida governor ron desantis, former vice president and former indiana governor mike pence, former south carolina governor nikki haley, former new jersey governor chris christie and north dakota governor doug burnham, and arkansas governor also hutchinson. so what could their experience really mean for the debate? i want to bring in another former governor, deval patrick. so nice to see you governor. how are you? >> i am well, congratulations on the new show. >> thank you, i'm thrilled that you are here today. we love being able to pick your brain on so many important matters, so thank you for joining me tonight. you know, governor there are a lot of governors that are going to be in this debate. a lot, running of course for the presidency and the rnc nomination. i'm wondering, over the other candidates, does being a governor give them an advantage? >> well i think executive experience is important. because the job, after, all is being present. i'll tell, you all be listening for two things. one is when are they for? an awful lot of what we hear about and from republican candidates for president and from any offices is what they are against. what are they for? and the other thing i'll be listening for is are they interested in being president of all of us in the united states or just those who agree with them? and you hear a lot from republicans today, pandering to others who are about turning on one another instead of to one another. and i think we need president and candidates for president who want to ask us, and ask us to turn to each other. that is why joe biden is a formidable candidate for reelection. he showed the kind of leadership, that kind of executive and, frankly, patriotic leadership and i think any of these republicans, governors are not have their work cut off for him trying to see it. >> it's interesting. it is shocking, really and think about it that so much of the conversation has had so little to do with answering those to question. -- but if they're going to face, what you call formidable. they need to give into the process. and there is somebody who is a formidable opponent right now, at least according to the polling. and so what is the best strategy for the candidates to make a dent in that. lead because, so far the strategy has been to be quiet. his name is almost voldemort to many of these candidates. they do not want to even name him at this point, or at any point in time. so he's obviously the big elephant in the room. how do they strategize in a way that actually answers those two points? >> well you know, i am not a strategist who can help them with that. i think that he does, they cast a big shadow over the debate and over the campaign. but if our constitution means anything, laura, he will not be on the ballot. he is disqualified from being on the ballot. as scholars from both the conservative side and the more liberal side of the constitution have written and said publicly. he is disqualified by the 14th amendment to the constitution from being on the ballot. >> will, excuse me governor, i don't want to cut you off but that might be, to use a fridge that we talked about, scholarly debate. but presently, he is indeed on the ballot. >> he is in the conversation. he is not on any path. and i expect that there will be, if there needs to be challenges to secretary of state's and others who are authorized for developing the ballots when that time comes to keep him off. because under our constitution it is unequivocal. he is disqualified from being on the ballot. >> so let's assume, for sake of argument is on the ballot. even after all discussions and i certainly read the articles and thought about the discussions and the legal premise behind it. but there are those right now, a former governor in the state of new jersey, chris christie, who has been talking about him being disqualified, not so much for the reason to have stated but because his performance and because of how he was as president of the united states. i'm wondering if you think that this upcoming debate is going to be substantive. or will it be trying to address donald trump is not the policy. >> well i think that it probably ought to be some of both -- there's a lot of substantive content to offer an rebuttal to what donald trump has offered going forward and i think the big challenge for republicans generally is the big this pattern of who's going to believe the next bully. i don't think americans want to bully as the president of the united states. we want someone who is unifying, someone who is about a better future for all of us. the scene, and the unseen. the left and left back and i don't think that we're getting that from republican candidates so far. and that is a real contrast to what president biden has offered and will offer in the biden administration has offered going forward into the future. >> well i tell you, are going forward and thinking about it one thing that they governors will have that might be at a disadvantage compared to others, is they do have a track record. whether you like it or not, they will have the proof of concept and how that will be used against, them or in favor of them is some who have never held office are not going to have to be able to attack. former governor, deval patrick, always nice to talk to you thank you so much. >> thank you lauren. >> well long dismissed sexual abuse cases against michael jackson's estate, now revived. we will break down the strength of those lawsuits and, well, when we go from here and how we got here. their team of independent tax attorneyeys will work with your cpa to determine if your company is s eligible. 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(light acoustic music plays) (eagle screeches) (energetic music plays) there he is! it's right there! ♪ oh, he's straight ahead. he's straight ahead. straight ahead. go go go. ♪ cover more ground in the kia sportage turbo-hybrid. kia. movement that inspires. two men have long accused michael jackson of sexually abusing them when they were children. we will look at their day in court now it seems. the california court of appeals, ruling the two men wayne robinson and -- can revive the lawsuits that have been dismissed against two companies and now owned by the jackson's estate. rob said, into -- mueller station allegations in 2019 hbo documentary called leaving the netherlands. but it's been a long hard fight to be heard in a court of law. robson and safe truck first filed suit back in 20 -- and 2014. but in 2017, their cases were dismissed. because, basically there was a statue of limitation period. that all changed when they passed a law affective in january of 2020 that allowed shuttle assault victims to move forward within five years of realizing that these suffered psychological injuries from an assault to the age of 40. now their cases were revived, but then in october of 2020, and april 2021 they were again dismissed when a court ruled that the corporations were not legally required to protect them as children. flash forward to this past friday now, when the appeals court ruled the lawsuit could, actually again resume. writing that, quote, a corporation that facilitates the sexual abuse of children, and one of its employees is not excused from an affirmative duty to protect their children rarely because it is solely owned by the perpetrator of the abuse. unquote. and now jackson, when he was alive said he vastly denied ever abusing any children. and he was acquitted of similar allegations from a different accuser back in 2003. he died in 2009. jonathan stein sniper, attorney for the estate of michael jackson said, in a statement to cnn, quote, we are disappointed with the courts decision leader adding we remain fully confident that michael is innocent of these allegations. >> joining me now is the investigative journalist and author of, be careful of who you love inside the michael jackson case. diane diamond and attorney areva martin. i am glad to see both of you here today, i have been so curious about this headline and this ruling ever since i saw. let me begin with you diane, because you actually, you first broke the news about accusations of an inappropriate relationship with michael jackson, and a young boy back in 1993. and i wonder beast from, then to now, so many years have passed what was your reaction to friday's ruling, well i was not surprised because so many states -- they're old statute of limitation limitations, so i know the two men's attorney, benson aldi. i knew he wasn't going to give up, and i think it comes down to this. if the catholic church is responsible for gets priests did, and if the boy scouts are responsible for what there is scouts did, this is what the appellate court ruled. the same standard should apply to the businesses of michael jackson, even though he owned them solely himself. >> areva, i want to unpack that. people might hear this and say, wait a second, they can now go back to court and sue the jackson estate again? or he can be tried postmortem? that is not the case, as diana was talking about, and reminding us that this is about the corporations. can you unpack a little bit for us, areva, why there is a distinction and whether the estate can be challenged? >> well what we know laura is that the estate is not a part of these lawsuits that are being revived. this is against two entities that michael jackson was the sole shareholder, the sole proprietor of. one was am j.j. ventures, and the other was am j.j. productions, and what the court is allowing, both cases have been dismissed, the 2013 and 2014 cases based on the statute of limitations. now this new law that california has, which allows individuals to file a case for sexual beuse that otherwise might have been barred by the statute, so that is a huge victory for the plaintiffs in this case. and then the court of appeals saying that the lower court got it wrong by determining that these corporations did not owe a duty of care to these individuals. now, i think it's interesting to note, laura the appellate court says that there is no comparable case law to cite. i think that the decision about whether these corporations, which are solely owned by michael jackson and the court goes on to talk about how he could have restrained himself, how he could have conducted himself in a different way so as not to cause the harm of these two men, boys at the time. i don't think this is a settled decision at all. you have to lower courts dismissing these cases, you can appellate court saying, no, particularly on the merit of liabilities corporations. you have got it wrong, sending it back to the lower court. so, whatever the outcome is, if this case does move forward to trial, we should expect to see continued appellate court litigation about this issue. the responsibility of these companies. >> diane, you are nodding. one of the reasons for a lot of people to be leading in more on instances on the allegations as they are right now, due to the metoo era in particular, society realized that people delay their reporting, they had a very different notion of what a, quote unquote, a true victim was, how they would operate and beyond. it's causing people to look at this case with a fresh set of. eyes but you actually were in the court when one of the plaintiffs, wade rosen, testified. but, he testified in defense of michael jackson, saying that he had not been a victim of molestation or anything inappropriate. so, given that he is now a plaintive, iggy surprise that when he came forward with a different story and it continues to have likes today, even with the appellate court? >> you know, let's go way back to 1993 when he was a little boy and i kept hearing his name come up over and over from people who worked with him in mjj productions, and mjj ventures. in my book, you mentioned my book, i wrote about many of the employees at mjj productions who told me that we were lavished with gifts, and anything they want it and so this is the crux of their claim, that people within that entity aided and abetted michael jackson in his alleged molestation of them. and it doesn't surprise me that it took them so long to come forward or that the story changed. >> certainly i've prosecuted delayed a sexual assault cases, areva, i know you're nodding as well. i'm sure you've had your fair share, thinking about how this can unfold. i will note that michael jackson was not found criminally liable for the behavior that he was accused for having committed and actually the attorney representing the estate of michael jackson said this. they, quote, remain fully confident that michael is innocent of these allegations. now, the case is, as you know, were consolidated in the appeals court are now going to go back to the trial courtroom. i am wondering about how many instances, many civil trials often and or even and before they began, areva, in a settlement. do you expect there to be that outcome here? >> well, clearly this kind of victory, where you have a case or cases dismissed twice and yet they are revived. if you talk about incentives to settle a case, if there was ever a poster child for an incentive, this is what we are looking at here. but, laura, as you just stated, both of these men, not just one, but both have made prior inconsistent statements. they have both stated under oath that michael jackson never molested them, never assaulted them. so, that is going to be, if these cases do move forward to dirrell, if there is a settlement, that is going to be a big issue for a lot of jurors who are looking at this and michael jackson is a beloved celebrity. so, reconciling what we know about the delayed response, how victims oftentimes suppress what has happened to them and then come forward later, just supposing that with a prior inconsistent statements, i don't think it's a slam dunk on either side. >> diane diamond, areva martin, something tells me this is not the end of this conversation. thank you both for being here. well, another nfl player carted off the field, this time on the new england patriots. that is just days after the philadelphia eagles players were taken off on stretchers. it is a safety becoming an even bigger issue in the nfl? 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(screams) bleeding gums are serious, jamie. dr. garcia? woah. they're a sign of bacterial infection. crest gum detoxify's antibacterial fluoride works below the gumline to help heal gums and stop bleeding. crest saves the day. crest. that's my husband... it's the inspire implant. he's not struggling with cpap anymore. all that rest is working wonders for him. inspire. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com. i'll always take care of you. ♪ i'm gonna hold you forever... ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ be by your side... ♪ ♪ i'll be there... ♪ when i first learned about my dupuytren's contracture, my physician referred me to a hand specialist. and i'm glad he did, because when i took the tabletop test, i couldn't lay my hand flat anymore. the first hand specialist i saw only offered surgery. so, i went to a second hand specialist who also offered nonsurgical options — which felt more right for me. so, what i'd say to other people with dupuytren's contracture is this: don't wait — find a hand specialist trained in nonsurgical options, today. i found mine at findahandspecialist.com. there is a scary moment when the remainder of an nfl preseason game between the patriots and packers was called off on sunday after patriots quarterback, isaiah bolden, suffered a frightening injury and was carted off the field in the fourth quarter. he was motionless after colliding with his own teammate calvin johnson in that quarter. the -- -- team later said he had a feeling in all those extremities, but this is the latest injury in the season alone and it can't help but remind people about what happened when damar hamlin had a cardiac arrest on the field in january. arrhythmias rachel nichols, host of headline on showtime. rachel, thank you for being here tonight. i mean, this injury it was so scary to see for so many people who are watching. it brought back some very painful and scary reminders of what happened last season. now, his injuries are different, i understand. that is right? >> absolutely. it was extremely scary in the moment because you had the same beginning circumstances, right? he just collapsed and was laying motionless in sort of rag doll position on the field. that is unbelievable to have to go through that if you are a teammate of his and certainly for all the fans watching. but it was pretty clear pretty quickly that things were different. damar hamlin, his heart stopped. if it wasn't for the quick thinking of the medical staff on hand he would've died. in this situation, it was pretty clear as soon as the medical staff was attending to bolden that things were different. you saw some of his legs moving a little bit, you saw that they were not moving at the same pace they had with departmental, and because the situation wasn't as serious, and this team did announce pretty soon after the game that he had a feeling in all his extremities. he was just kept in the hospital overnight for observation, reportedly diagnosed with a concussion and allowed to fly back to massachusetts with the team on sunday morning. >> one of the differences to is that the game was called off. this was pre-season at this point, so it's unlike the actual regular season games where there is a question of what to do now and how to operate in this instance. but, noting on that concussion, there has been, i understand, in 18% increase in concussions in the nfl comparing the last two seasons, by the way. is the reason for the increase all the sudden, 18% now? >> there are a couple things last together. one thing, the nfl, to its credit, has broadened the definition of what a concussion is to be in line with what medical experts suggest. obviously, if you brought that out, you're going to get more people diagnosed with it. however, what we are still waiting for is a little bit more safety equipment. we have seen the nfl investigate different style helmet, we have also seen what is called a guardian cap, i call it a foam saying, some people like to call it an egg crate. so certain players have been wearing this during practice and it is astonishing, laura. in those situations, concussions have decreased 52%. 52%, and we know the effect of concussions later on in life. that is significant if that can be cut in half. why don't we see this during a game? you can take a look at what they look like, a lot of players don't want to change to something like that it is hard to get them to play in what they are not used to. and if alchemy slow to change as a lead and they don't look great, and i don't think it fits in the aesthetic of being this rough and ready lead. it'll be interesting to see if the helmet technology can catch up enough to those guardian caps that people are okay just sticking with the helmets, or the nfl is said, not right now, but it is possible that if the almond technology can't catch up you might see those guardian caps in a game sometime soon. >> a starbucks, safety, with something that is not particularly attractive -- having it occurred on the last. rachel nichols, thank you so much. >> thanks. >> thank you all everyone for watching, our coverage on cnn continues. dr. g? 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