day, that is really fascinating. thank you, have a great weekend. good evening, everyone. i'm abby phillip. welcome to "cnn primetime." donald trump's terms of surrender. the 45th president of the united states, he'll turn himself in to the fulton county jail at the end of next week. and in a sign of just how close we are to that stunning moment, the secret service has been at the jail for weeks working with local officials to plan the forge president's appearance. a mugshot, fingerprints, the whole nine yards. and what will this mean for the first republican debate which is on wednesday? plus classroom sul tour wars in a suburban atlanta district. a school board voted to fire a gender identity to gifted fifth graders. that teacher is with us tonight. oscar nominee bradley cooper is in the middle of a controversy about "maestro." he plays leonard bernstein. some of his critics say the makeup he wears reinforces hurtful anti-semitic stereotypes. others question casting since he's not known to be of jewish ancestry. who can play whom in movies and television shows? what does this all day about diversity in hollywood? we've got a fascinating conversation ahead. let's begin with what we know about donald trump's surrender in georgia on charges that he and 18 other people orchestrated a criminal enterprise to overturn joe biden's election victory. a senior law enforcement official tells cnn that the former president is expected to vicin surrender either thursday or friday next week. if that process is anything like what most criminal defendants experience, he could be waiting hours to get his firms and mugshot taken. but this is the former president of the united states and nothing like this has ever happened before, not in the least four times. the secret service has been planning for weeks and the treatment of defendants being booked and processed on criminal charges in fulton county does vary drastically case-by-case. but it normally does include a thorough search by a jail deputy, a medical screening, pretrial consultation, fingerprinting, and, of course, a mugshot. >> unless someone tells me differently, we are following our normal practices. and so doesn't matter your status, we'll have mugshots ready for you. >> let's bring in former federal prosecutor elliot williams and republican strategist shermichael singleton. this is supposed to be time number four for donald trump. he's going to go to the jail thursday and friday, according to a source. do you have a sense of how the processing is going to look different in a county jail versus a federal courtroom or even the new york city manhattan courtroom? >> right, the challenge here is that you have a former president of the united states who is entitled by law to 24-hour secret service protection. any time a president is in sort of custody of something other than the secret service, it's cause for their alarm. number one, is he ever put into a jail cell? number two, is he ever put into a general population? number three, how is he handled and treated? setting aside the questions of whether he ought to be held guilty for the things he's accused of and so on, there are serious safety considerations. another question we have to ask is, is this really just like any other case? or are there going to be accommodations made on account of the fact that it's a former president? and i do think that even despite the bluster that you're hearing from the fulton county sheriff, this is going to be different. >> i think the other jurisdictions, they have not needed to take a mug shot. everybody knows what donald trump looks like. so there's that. but shermichael, this is going to be a moment where potentially maybe they might decide to do that just to make a statement, that he's like any other defendant. but it's not just going to be him, it's going to be like a lot of other high-profile people. the rudy giulianis of the world. mark meadows, former white house chief of staff. a very high-ranking government official in his former life. you're a republican. what kind of moment is this? for this country and for the party that we're seeing this parade of people showing up at a county jail? >> look, it's an unprecedented moment. i think it's a moment that most americans would have never foreseen. i talk to my grandparents, we talk about politics often. my grandfather said, in the 60 years he's been engaged in the political process, even through richard nixon -- think about this -- he never thought that it would get to the point where a president would be arrested facing, what, 90, 91 indictments? charges? this is serious. a very serious moment for the republican party. but again, you look at the numbers, donald trump's leading the pack. donald trump has 37, 40% support. if you somehow try to remove the guy, the question for republicans is, do we lose those supporters? make it nearly impossible to compete in 2024? i talked to one friend, a chief of staff, earlier today and he says some talks are trying to figure out, do we just stick with trump, go all-in, hope to win next year? or abandon him and many are leaning towards stick with him. >> meanwhile, elliot, trump is unapologetic as he has been throughout this whole thing. but these cases are serious. the georgia case is not one that he can pardon himself out of. if you're his lawyers, would you be advising him to talk -- defend the lies, the election lies that led to this point? >> you know, i think if i were his lawyer, what i would do is number one, try to get the case thrown out on some sort of legal matter. try to move it into federal court. try to raise whatever avenues you have for just making it go away. >> not deal with the substance? >> not deal with the substance of it. then i think all you can do as a defendant is attack the credibility of witnesses, attack the credibility of the evidence. and also just make the point that, i thought i won this election, and this was my attempt to zealously advocate on behalf of myself. so you sort of make the case about your own intent, the fact that everybody else is somebody you can't trust. there isn't a great way to go about it, but that's what defense attorneys have to do. >> shermichael, a train wreck situation. a republican debate wednesday, a potential surrender on either thursday or friday. trump seems to be banking on the idea that, hey, any news is good news, even bad news of me surrendering in a jail. what do you think? how do you think voters -- >> all the news is going to be on him. i think if you're an average lay republican voter looking at this, looking at a pool of nine other candidates, you're starting to ask yourself, do these guys actually have a chance? women it indeed be trump? if it is trump, do i just hold my nose and vote for the guy because i want biden gone? or do i stay home? i think looking at the polling data, outside of the 25% of never trumpers who won't vote for trump no matter what, i think most republican voters are on the side of, if it's him, i'll vote for him. >> it certainly looks that way. elliot and cher michael, stand by. i want to bring in criminal investigator and former secret service agent ev ie pomporus. secret service have been at the fulton county jail for weeks preparing for this surrender. what do you think they need to have down before trump appears? they've had a lot of practice, though. >> yes, but it's not a heavy lift. he's going to a secure location. it's a jail. it's got a lot of law enforcement there. it's already locked down. so usually when you have a movement, the most vulnerable point is in arrival and departure. that's really when a protectee like trump is most vulnerable. once inside, they're going to secure the facility. law enforcement entities are helping with the motorcade route, the arrival, the departure, the surrender itself which is common. i would arrest individuals where i would allow them to surrender when they were, you know -- nonviolent crimes. so they will likely expedite the process for him. they probably don't want him to be there very long, so he's going to move to the front of the line, whatever that looks like. they're going to process him. i think it will be a negotiation about what they do or don't do, because they really want to process him and then wheel him out. nobody wants -- you have to think of the problem or the threat in their home that long a period of time. >> and this jail, of course, is a different venue than some of the other places he's surrendered. manhattan and washington, these are jurisdictions that are very used to high-profile, basically vip defendants. this fulton county jail is known for its poor conditions. how does that affect where trump is kept and how the secret service prepares for that? >> secret service goes out in advance. it's called a site advance agent. they always send an agent out in advance. they leapfrog, get ahead there one week, a couple of weeks. do an assessment of the whole structure. the building, the layout, what's it made out of. you're doing an assessment, manpower. how many officers work there? what's the manpower like? do they need to bring in supplemental? you have to think about the exterior. protesters, demonstrators. you also think about vl vulnerabilities. who's going to show up? who's going to cause problems? is there a threat? you're thinking about the safety not just of trump but other people in that area. they're going to do a thorough job. i've done so many of these advances, and i've done them in places that you would think, how are you going to do this? they can do this. it's really -- i don't want to say it's another tuesday for them, but it really is kind of like a methodical process that they follow. fire safety, chemical, biological attacks, any lone wolves, any explosives. everything you can think of. what's above? what's below? they're really going to do a thorough assessment. i will tell you this, they don't want to have a bad day. not just the secret service but the facility itself. it would really look very poorly on them if they're really not on their "a" game. >> yeah, absolutely. the eyes of the world looking at them, even on this fourth time for donald trump. evie, thank you very much for joining us. i want to bring in a senior fellow at the foundation for the defense of democracy, thomas jocelyn, also a senior staffmember for the january 6th house select committee. thomas, many of the names that were brought up in the january 6th hearings, they're now facing charges in georgia. that's actually very different from even the federal investigation where it's only trump. what was your reaction to both of those scenarios, that jack smith didn't charge those individuals? and that fani willis decided to do so? >> well, i think they're pursuing different legal strategies, obviously. i was impressed with ms. fani willis' indictments. i thought it was very comprehensive. i thought she laid out the case and the narrative of the conspiracy to overturn the election in a very efficient and methodical way. and i would point out that in her indictment, even though she focuses on the georgia charges, one of the things she does is points out how these same actors likely violated the law in several other states. in count one which covers rico conspiracy, she lists different actions that occurred in up to six other states. she's basically -- i look at it as basically begging other prosecutors to file charges that are similar. this is something she did that i think was very -- she did the right thing here with these charges. it is curious that others aren't filing suit so far. >> it is curious. we've asked that question here as well. one of the interesting things that emerged today from our own file here at cnn, they have a video showing kenneth chesebro, whose name is in this indictment, following alex jones, notorious huckster, basically. following alex jones around the capitol grounds on january 6th. the committee investigator williams was on cnn with my colleague, kaitlan collins. he said that the committee wasn't aware of this video at all. was there completely unknown to you all? >> i didn't know chesebro was with alex jones. the committee certainly looked at thousands and thousands of video from all the different camera footage. we certainly looked at a lot of video footage of alex jones. it's quite possible that chesebro was in some of that footage and we didn't recognize him. one of the things about chesebro we've been learning there's more recent images that have come of late, and maybe that helped identify him here. >> yeah, does it tell you anything more, though, about the question of, what is the line? is there a line between the people who were leading the political part of this and the kind of election interference part, the fake electors, and the people who were breaking windows and breaking into the capitol? does it tell you anything more about that? >> you know, abby, one of the things we've seen in the press has been questioning how did somebody like kenneth chess borrow, with his pedigree and education, end up in the thing of this conspiracy to overturn the 2020 presidential election? we're starting to get clues. assuming he was with alex jones because he was sympathetic to alex jones and his cause -- i don't think that's a bold assumption -- it does start to tell us something about his view of all this. and, you know, one of the things we documented on the committee, in the final report, is that alex jones and his infowars played a very big role in the stop the steal movement. it's important to keep in mind what alex jones is about is anti-government extremism. this idea that the u.s. is illegitimate. and the inherent in that thought is the idea it should be overthrown. so the idea that alex jones would find himself there on january 6th and chess borrow would be by his side starts to speak to something of the mindset of chesebro, also this political -- at the heart of a political conspiracy and fake electors scheme to overturn the election. >> does it surprise you that neither -- well, certainly not jack smith. i think that's where it would end up being if there was evidence to support it. jack smith was not able to say, we're charging someone, anyone, with the violence on january 6th. does that surprise you? >> you know, i'm not a lawyer, so i always -- i'm always a little curious how lawyer make these decisions. but the way i look at it, it's all part of the same package. so i don't think there's really a firm line between the political conspiracy and the political violence. i think the political violence came about because of the political conspiracy. i think every man on the street can understand that argument. jack smith's indictment was very narrow to trump, focused on very specific charges. you can even see in that special counsel indictment, he is saying trump is responsible for the attack. he says that throughout. the speech at the ellipse, for example, that trump gave, which is very incendiary, with the exception of one word, entirely insend i can't remember. he cites that speech all throughout the indictment. i think this is something that he just didn't charge him for inciting the attack, but he certainly lays blame at trump's feet for it. >> thomas jocelyn, thank you very much. i want to come back to elliot and shermichael. elliot, you are a lawyer. i do wonder what you think about this video that has emerged showing that connection. and also, i mean, this is an important question. the charges don't -- they don't really charge trump with january 6th-related charges. fani willis is dealing with some other issues. does that surprise you? >> two questions separately. with respect to kenneth chesebro being seen on january 6th, it gets much harder for him or donald trump, anybody, to claim that what chesebro was providing was merely legal advice and bouncing ideas around with the president, when he's clearly palling around with alex jones on january 6th. so, you know, it muddies his avenues for defense a little bit. to the second question about charging the president with a crime, i've been saying for a while, it would have been very hard to charge the president with a crime for the conduct on january 6th. you would have run into a lot of free speech questions with the words that he said there and linking him to the actual violence. and then for seditious conspiracy, which some people have been charged and convicted of on january 6s, you'd have to prove some agreement or conspiracy that is still based what's in the public record. is it conduct that is shameful, disgraceful, unpresidential, unamerican, whatever? absolutely, but i don't know if you can charge it as a crime. >> shermichael, to bring this into the political realm, thursday, it sounds like a lot of the candidates are going to be defending donald trump. >> oh, yeah. >> in order to do that, they're going to have to defend donald trump's conduct in the lead-up to the 2020 election, the 2020 leak, and leading up to january 6th. that's going to be quite a thing for a lot of republican candidates to do, to align themselves with that. >> they don't have a choice. don't shoot the messenger for the viewers, but when you talk to the average republican vote bear january 6th, they'll say, what about the blm riots? what about antifa? what about this, what about that? those guys were peacefully protesting. there were individuals causing a ruckus in the crowd that weren't real trump supporters. people really believe this. so if you're a republican at 6%, 2%, you're thinking, i need to somehow pivot and reach into some of those trump supporters, then you're going to take the stance of defending trump and defending the individuals who have been persecuted, according to many republican voters, because they believe those individuals were wrongly charged. >> it might even be the ones atgy% like ron desantis doing that as well. >> that's right. >> shermichael, elliot, thank you both. coming up next for us, we'll hear from what a group of republican voters are thinking ahead next week'dete. plus the cnn original series "giuliani: what happened to america's mayor?" provides a revealing look at the epic rise and fall of this american political icon, and here is a preview of that. >> what happened to rudy giuliani? >> it is almost unthinkable. >> a theme that runs through his life is that he's got to be at the center of the action. >> rudy's got to be the star. >> rudy really wanted to make big cases. >> we sure as heck can deliver a message which is, you're going to go to prison. >> new york has five organized crime families, and they have been permitted to grow and grow and grow and grow. >> rudy guiliani was taking on the mafia. >> i heard a plane had crashed into one of the twin towers. >> there's a terrible tragedy. the best way to get through this is remain calm. the number of casualties will be more than any of us can bear, ultimately. those of us who are here have to defend freedom by going about our lives unafraid. >> he stepped forward to be a leader. >> that was the man meeting the moment. >> fast forward to giuliani becomes the story of rise and fall. >> we're going to fight to the very end to make sure they don't take away our free and fair vote! >> rudy giuliani arguing that he wasn't literally advocating for insurrection. >> to understand the arc of rudy giuliani, one has to appreciate how intoxicating fame and power are. >> there was always this tension between genuine public service and the pursuit of the glory of giuliani. >> it's [ bleep ]! >> rudy is not a guy who backs down, rudy is a guy who doubles down. >> stand up and be defiant. in america, that's what they love. >> "giuliani: what happened to america's mayor?" tomorrow at 8:00 on cnn. what. with up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? 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and even the -- just the tone of it all, the vibe of that stage? >> i guess it's kind of like breakfast without orange juice. you can still have a great meal but it doesn't get started as good as you wanted to do. make no mistake this debate matters. millions, tens, i think you're going to have as many as 20 million people watching this debate. it's as significant as the first debate in 2016. the first appearance of donald trump -- actually, back in 2015. and everyone's tuning in because they want to hear what the candidates have to say. they want to see how they relate to each other. they don't want the negative. so it's going to be fascinating for those candidates that are critical of trump how they take him on. but without alienating his vote, because in the end, it's not the criticism of donald trump that matters, it's pulling trump's voters over to them because his lead is so significant. and we've never seen a primary election with someone with a lead this big who in the end is defeated in the pursuit of the nomination. >> yeah, it would actually be historic if at this point trump did not become the nominee. so on the debate stage, the next highest polling candidate would be ron desantis. on the campaign trail you're seeing candidates trying to break through. this morning chris christie actually aimed his firepower on desantis over the issue of january 6th, take a listen. >> when he got asked up in new hampshire by a 15-year-old about his point of view on the january 6th riot? he said, "well, i wasn't in washington that day, so i don't know as much about it." well [ bleep ], man, i wasn't in washington either. but i have a tv set, and i saw what was going on. and i got an opinion about it. >> could this become a desantis pile-on, at the end of the day? >> absolutely. absolutely. the question now is, who's going to be the alternative to donald trump? it's going to be one or two candidates. right now tim scott is doing very well in iowa. chris christie is doing very well in new hampshire. and whoever emerges from this debate, and it will be somebody who's crowned the winner, that person automatically raises money, automatically ends up on shows like yours, automatically starts to get the attention that they need. up until that this point it's been trump, trump, trump. the indictments. his victimization. his accusations of persecution. and it's why trump has been gaining and gaining, even though these indictments are happening. but next wednesday, the real election begins. that's when somebody, like a chris christie, will emerge. and the question's going to be, who's got the best line? who's got the best attack? you have to deliver that attack without alienating the people that you're trying to win over. >> yeah. that will be very interesting to see. and i would probably add that how the attack is delivered, whether it looks overly scripted or natural, is a huge part of this, too. but frank, i want to get to what you've been up to, which is talking to republican voters. you talked to a group of 15 of them ahead of next week's debate. you asked them to actually listen to a moment when trump mocks chris christie's weight in a previous era. here's how that exchange went with those republican voters. >> no, christie, he's eating right now, he can't be bothered. [ laughter and applause ] sir, please do not call him a fat pig. >> it disgusts me. there's no need for it. >> i don't really want to see a candidate try their hand at stand-up comedy. i'd rather go see a comedian of my own choice. i don't like his humor. i don't really have anything flattering to say about donald trump, aside from his policies. >> i like him because he always speaks the truth. just because people don't like the way he says it, everybody's so sensitive in the u.s. >> he's speaking his mind, and that's one of the problems with a lot of the other candidates is that they're too -- in some ways they're too guarded. >> that last comment is so interesting. they're too guarded. it kind of speaks to what we were just discussing, which is voters like trump being kind of just off the cuff and saying whatever he wants. some of them do. but others, as you saw in that group, did not. >> well, let's be clear. republicans like his approach. independents and democrats don't. what gets donald trump towards that nomination is exactly what hurts him in the summer, in the fall, as you enter into the general election. and frankly, and i've not heard enough of it yet, i think there's going to be a case -- i think one of the big issues is whether donald trump can beat joe biden. because republicans desperately want to get back the white house. and electability is going to matter to them. trump as a person is very controversial. but among republicans, trump's policies are very much supported. >> all right. frank luntz, thank you very much for all of that. up next for us, a teacher reads a book about gender identity to her class in suburban atlanta and is subsequently fired. that teacher will join me here next. do you struggle with occasional nerve aches in your hands or feet? try nervive nerve relief from the world's number one nerve care company. nervive contains ala to relieve nerve aches, and b-complex vitamins to fortify healthy nerves. try nervive. and, try nervive pain relieving roll-on. the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized... well, we can do anything. cheesecake cookies? the chookie! manage all your sales from one place with a partner that always puts you first. (we did it) start today at godaddy.com the culture war is erupting in a suburban atlanta classroom. the cobb county school board has voted to fire a teacher who read a book about gender identity to her gifted fifth graders. the board voted 4-3 yesterday to terminate the contract of katie rinderle against the recommendation of another panel of retired county educators. she was removed from her classroom back in march after a parent complained. she'd read the book "my shadow is purple" to her class. here's an excerpt of that book. "my dad has a shadow that's blue as a berry, my mom is as pink as a blossoming cherry. but there's only two choices, a two or a one. mine is quite different, it's both and it's none." joining me is katie rinderle and craig goodmark, her attorney. thank you both for being here. katie, by now most people watching, and i'm sure you were as well as a teacher, you're aware of the controversies surrounding books on this topic. but you chose to read it anyway. why? >> i purchased this book at our school scholastic book fair. my students were able to vote on a selection of books. so they actually chose this book. and that's why i read it aloud to them. but this book is an affirming book that truly is celebrating the importance of honoring who you are and also the unique assets and identities of others. >> that's interesting that the students themselves were the ones who wanted this book read. one of the things that is happening in the state of georgia is that the state passed a bill that's being called a parents' bill of rights. it passed last year. this is similar to what's happening all across the country. but it says that it gives transparency to parents in what their children is being taught in school. i wonder, did you think about that or factor that into your decision-making, when you were in this moment, your students asked you to read this book, and you knew it was potentially on a controversial topic? >> well, when i originally read this book aloud, you know, i used my best judgment when i was selecting the book. and i truly felt that, you know, this book was an inclusive book. and that there was no policy where you needed to get permission or anything of that nature. so, you know, and i still believe that. >> georgia officials, they also say that you violated the state's divisive concepts law that bars teachers from, quote, espousing personal political beliefs and guarantees parents have, quote, the right to direct the upbringing and the moral or religious training of his or her minor children. i wonder, what was the reaction from your students to the subject matter of the book? and do you think that when you hear about what that law is all about, that you violated it? >> so it's really hard to know where this invisible line is. these laws are intentionally vague and really causing teachers to self-censor because they are so vague. my students, they are were able to relate to this book as gifted students and truly were able to celebrate not only their giftedness and all of their interests, but also their own unique identities. and were able to engage in conversation with one another. and that's important. it's important for students to be able to have open discussion, to share their thoughts, to not only be able to connect with the books that are reflective of them, but also are reflective of identities that are different than them. and for them to be able to learn from the perspective of others. you know, literacy is a foundation -- the foundation of literacy is to foster communication. and that's critical. >> craig, the cobb county school district, they have this statement that i'll read to the audience here and to you. "the district is pleased that this difficult issue is concluded. we're very serious about keeping our classrooms focused on teaching and learning and opportunities for success for students. the board's decision is reflective of that mission." but craig, what do you say to the officials who made this decision and claim that katie here violated multiple rules and laws? >> i really wish it could be that simple. clearly, i disagree with the board's statement. they've put this type of politics over educational policy the entire way. it's just -- it's unfortunate that they've allowed the political agenda of outsiders, of people who aren't in the classroom with katie, seeing the good work that she does, ahead of the students. and that is -- it's not good. >> and before we go, craig, do you plan legal action on behalf of your client? >> so we're evaluating all the avenues. katie has the right to an appeal to the state board of education. and we're look ing at all our legal options, yes. >> thank you both very much tonight. >> thank you. >> thank you. up next, an uproar over the latest bradley cooper movie. the actor wearing a prosthetic nose to portray famed jewish composer leonard bernstein. did he cross a line? 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this is a next level bed, for a next level you. my circadian rhythm is kicking your circadian rhythms butt! it's not a competition. i know, but i'm still winning! so, it is a competition. save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add a base. shop now only at sleep number. >> no, i'm not. >> mm, good. >> actually, at all. >> i'm thinking of a number. >> oh, i don't know. 9? >> no. >> 5? >> no, you have to think. >> i'll try, i'll try. i'm trying to. >> it's 2, darling. >> bradley cooper is now facing criticism over his use of a prosthetic nose in his newest film "maestro" after the trailer was released earlier this week. cooper, who is not jewish, portrays conductor and composer leonard bernstein, who was jewish, in this upcoming bio-pic about his life and marriage. some feel the prosthetic nose reinforces hurtful santi-semiti stereotypes. neil tourette's, thanks for joining us. you called this a manufactured controversy. and overreaction that undermines real claims of anti-semitism. why do you say that? >> well, i think that ultimately, this is a small thing. anti-semitism is sinister. anti-semitism is meant to injure and to hurt and to separate jews as the "other." there's maliciousness to anti-semitism. this is not that. this is a prosthetic nose that is a little bit big, okay, maybe it is. but bradley cooper doesn't look anything like leonard bernstein, and seeing this, it makes me think that he does look like him. i think that it's makeup. people play people who they don't resemble all the time. rami malek doesn't look anything like freddie mercury, for instance, but he put the teeth in, suddenly he wins an oscar. >> yeah, i mean, you brought up rami malek, who you can see there on the screen, made himself to look like freddie mer mercury. nicole kidman in the movie "the hours" played virginia woolf. >> virginia woolf, yeah. >> and i don't even know how many prosthetics she had, frankly, because she transformed her face to look like virginia woolf. >> yeah. >> this is definitely a part of the costuming in hollywood. and you point out that the nose is actually, if you look at the trailer, it's larger at the beginning when he's younger, then it kind of more fits his face. which i think might also have been a choice, right? >> fits his face as leonard gets older and bradley wears more prosthetics, the face fills out and the nose feels natural. i think that there were a lot of opportunities -- cooper worked with bernstein's children in the lead-up to and making of this film. he worked with them very closely. i think they had a lot of opportunity to say, hey, dial back on the sneezer a bit. you know. the fact that it ended up like this, they actually came out with tweets or whatever they're called now -- >> i actually have a statement. >> supporting this. >> yeah, they put out a statement supporting him. "it happens to be true that leonard bernstein had a nice big nose, and bradley chose to use makeup to amplify his resem resemblance, and we're perfectly fine with that. we're also certain that our dad would have been fine with it as well." you know, i mean, that is pretty crystal clear. it was a choice they were perhaps a part of and okay with. but there is the argument that some people make that that idea of a large nose is an anti-semitic trope and that by just perpetuating it, you're sort of feeding into the trope? >> i think that the cliche of the yjew, the big jew news, use in a cartoonish version of this, is meant to injure. and this is not. i just -- there's no rational argument that anyone could make that would convince a sane, reasonable person that bradley cooper is trying to injure or is trying to create something like this cliche. and the fact is, in the intro, you mentioned that bradley's not jewish, playing a famous jewish man. that's another part of the outcry as well, that only a jewish person should be playing him. but where does that end? does that mean only christians can play christians? only straight people can play straight people? richard gere can only play a buddhist? >> to that point, i want to just play -- i mean, just to that exact point, i want to play what stanley tucci said earlier this year about straight actors playing gay actors. >> i'm always very flattered when gay men come up to me and talk about "the devil wears prada" or "supernova." they say, "it's just so beautiful, you did it the right way." because often it's not done the right way. but i really do believe that an actor is an actor is an actor. you're supposed to play different people. you just are. that's the whole point of it. >> i would say maybe the exception to that is -- maybe the exception to that is, we don't want to see blackface in 2023. but on some of the other -- >> of course not. >> -- forms of identity, you think he's right? >> i absolutely do. i think that also, the outrage is selective. you know? there was -- i don't remember any kind of large protest some years back when jim caviezel was cast to play jesus in "the passion of the christ." jim caviezel is a devout christian. i don't think i need to remind you jesus is perhaps the most famous jewish person who ever lived. >> exactly. that's a very good point as well. neil tourette's, thank you very much, interesting conversation there. >> thanks for having me. over a year's worth of rain could be coming to the southwest. the latest on hurricane hilary right after this. sometimes jonah wrestles with falling asleep... ...so he takes zzzquil. the world's #1 sleep aid brand for a better night sleep. so now, he wes up feeling like himself. e reigning family room middle-weight champion. better days start with zzzquil nights. ♪ chevy silverado has what it takes to do it all. with up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? yeah. any truck can help you make a living. this one helps you build a life. chevy silverado. we're carvana the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100 percent online now we've created a brand new way for you to sell your car whether it's a year old, or a few years old we want to buy your car so go to carvana enter your license plate answer a few questions and our techno wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds when you're ready we'll come to you pay you on the spot and pick up your car that's it so ditch the old way of selling your car and say hello to the new way at carvana my heart failure diagnosis changed my priorities. i want time for the people i love. my heart doesn't pump enough blood... so my doctor gave me farxiga. ♪ farxiga ♪ it helps my heart do its job better. farxiga helps keep me living life... and out of the hospital for heart failure. farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections in women and men and low blood sugar. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may lead to death. a rare life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. more time with her? sounds good to me. ask your doctor for farxiga for heart failure. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪ farxiga ♪ (♪) rsv can be a dangerous virus... 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