where a grand jury is still in session tonight, and the people around donald trump are expecting what will be the former president's fourth criminal indictment. also tonight, a father and son reunited after they survived hours in the ocean while everything on shore burned. >> it looks so different. that's going to be crazy. good evening. thanks very much for joining us. 5:00 p.m. was when the fulton county grand jury was supposed to end day one of hearing evidence in fani willis' investigation into alleged election subversion of the former president. just after 8:00 p.m. eastern, and they are still at work. they expect charges to be filed imminently. short time ago, former lieutenant governor geoff duncan, who is now a cnn contributor, testified. that's him on the way out. sara murray is at the courthouse. sara, what's the latest? >> reporter: well, things are still going on in there, anderson. as you pointed out, we're hours beyond when the courthouse normally closes. around 7:15. the presiding judge this week said he planned to stick around for at least another hour. so, we're waiting to see if he gives us another update. and, look, this grand jury has been busy today. we know that they have heard from a number of witnesses, including the former lieutenant governor of georgia, geoff duncan, a former democratic state senator, former democratic state representative. gabe sterling, who is an official in the georgia secretary of state's office was also spotted in the courthouse today. so, it's likely he testified, although they have not confirmed that yet. so, this has really been a jam-packed day so far, anderson. >> is it clear why the timeline of the grand jury's activity appeared to accelerate earlier today? >> reporter: yeah, i mean, a couple of the witnesses who were supposed to appear tomorrow were summoned in to be on call to testify today. geoff duncan was one of those. the other one is independent journalist george cheatty, who has been tweeting updates in what appears to be the waiting area for witnesses testifying before the grand jury. he just sent another update saying that the grand jury appears to be chewing over what they learned so far today. and it's unclear if he's going to have to testify. so, i think what we're seeing is the district attorney's team moving pretty speedily through presenting a lot of this case before the grand jury and trying to determine, frankly, if they're going to be able to push the grand jury for a vote and to hand up indictments tonight or if this is going to spill over to tomorrow, anderson. >> so, george cheatty is sitting outside waiting to go in, not clear if he is actually going to be called. when would we get word that the grand jury has voted? >> reporter: essentially we will get word when papers leave the room the grand jury is meeting in and make their way into the courtroom of the presiding duj, robert mcbirdie. that's how we're expecting this to go down that the grand jury hands down their finding, it goes to the presiding judge, who signs off on them. that goes to the clerks office to be stamped and processed, and it's made public to everyone who's waiting to see what this garage ultimately decides. as you pointed out, it's getting late. they're trying to keep some of these court officials here sticking around to hold out potentially the possibility that they can get these indictments done tonight, anderson. >> and earlier, as you just reported, the judge had indicated he would stick around for about another hour. when does that hour -- i mean, based on when he said that, do we know when that hour runs out? >> reporter: so, he said that around 7:15. so, presumably around 8:15, he will also proebably be getting little bit ancy, probably pressing the district attorney's team for an update about whether they need to keep the courthouse and the courtroom open. there's a bunch of journalists who have been sitting in this courtroom's all day. we have a bunch of journalists sitting in the clerk's office for hours waiting to see if this case is going to move tonight. >> if it doesn't finish tonight, does the grand jury convene tomorrow? >> reporter: if it doesn't finish tonight, we fully expect they will be back here tomorrow. this grand jury's regular days for meeting are monday and tuesday, although they normally get out much earlier in the day. and you know, one thing we should note about how this works, anderson, is the grand jurors aren't captives here. if someone raised their hand and said, i can't stick around, i have to see my kids, or we need to wrap this up for the day, that's what we would be seeing happen there. it's possible the grand jurors want to power through this case today as much as it seems like the district attorney's team might want to. >> what's the latest word from the former president on all this? >> reporter: well, the former president has been lashing out, as you might expect, all over his social media platform. he's been saying that the d.a. wants to indict him henri dig louse rounds. he's essentially pleading with -- to say he didn't tamper with the election. he also said the d.a. is out to get trump. >> sara murray, stay with us. i want to bring in elie honig, former federal prosecutor, also author of "untouchable: how powerful people get away with it." joining us, adam kinzinger. also michael moore, former u.s. attorney for the middle district of georgia. michael, why would witnesses scheduled to appear tomorrow suddenly be showing up at the courthouse today? >> well, i'm glad to be with all of you. there's nothing particularly unusual about a prosecutor having their schedule wrong. and it can shift. it can be that maybe the grand jury didn't have questions for somebody in as much detail as the district attorney may have expected. so, moving that schedule around, having the ability to be fluid a little bit, there is nothing unusual about that. it is getting a little unusual, frankly, now that it's well past the typical work day and closing time of the courthouse. the indictments are going to be returned in open court, meaning it has to be an open forum there in the courtroom and the courthouse has to be open. i don't know if she's anticipating asking for an indictment today, or if they're trying to close up the evidence, get the information, and move forward with the presentment tomorrow. zblf michael, as you know, according to reuters, there was a document posted on the fulton county courthouse. county officials dismissed it as unofficial. they took it down. how big of a deal is it, and do the list of charges sound about right to you? >> the charges sound about right. i think it was a much bigger deal than the clerk would like to admit at this point. i think -- not considered by a neutral body, that these are charges that the district attorney already knew she was going to get. this is why the thing was filed as if the indictment had already been returned. that's another reason i hope the district attorney will wait until tomorrow to give us all in the public the sense that the grand jury is actually going to consider in some detail an overdue deliberation of the evidence they've had before today. >> elie, long been reported that the d.a. willis is pursuing a rico case against the former president, racketeering charges. we've all seen it in mob films. what might rico mean in this context? >> all indication ts are that the d.a. is looking at a rico charge and this is real life and we could see it. traditionally rico is applied to mob families or organized drug trafficking organizations. in the last couple decades, it's expanded to include corrupt political organizations. this is an enterprise, a group of individuals working together towards a excommon end who committed a pattern of racketeering activity. all indications are that fani willis is looking at and really important to note, anderson. if there is a racketeering charge, that carries a mandatory minimum of five years in prison. none of the other charges donald trump has seen so far from any of the other prosecutors have any mandatory minimum. if he does get charged with this and convicted of it and it is upheld on appeal, that requires five years behind bars. >> congressman kinzinger, how do you expect the case here in fulton county, if there is one, to track with the work you and your colleagues did on the january 6th committee? >> well, i'm really interested to see the details of this because, you know, as you've seen with jack smith, that's really tracked a lot of what the committee did. this is going to be -- i don't know how similar it will be or how different, but it seems like looking at jack smith with the january 6th committee, we were kind of a mile wide and however far deep on some of these issues. this is going to be, it looks like a specific drill-down on what happened in georgia, why that was corrupt, and potentially bring other people in on this. so, i think it's going to be really interesting to see what else is brought in, to see how powerful the evidence or at least the indictment seems to be. again, i don't know if it's going to change any republican minds because they've kind of now rally around the flag idea. but certainly i think this is going to be sobering when a lot of this stuff comes forward. >> sara, you reported that the prosecutors are in possession of text messages linking members of the former president's inner circumstance toll the data breach of coffee county voting machines in early 2021. can you remind our viewers about that incident? >> reporter: yeah, i mean, this is a breach of voting systems in coffee county in january 2021. we didn't learn about it until months and months later. there was actually a civil case involving georgia election security. one of the folks mentioned in the civil case that they were able to access these voting systems. we've learned there were a number of operatives in the state of georgia who were able to access these systems. and what the fulton county district attorney's team has suspected for a while, then gathered evidence to, was that this was not just some sort of organic thing that sprung up from trump supporters in very republican rural coffee county, georgia, that this was a more top-down effort that was coordinated with members of donald trump's team. and what my colleague and i have been reporting on are these strings of messages that make their way to attorneys who are working with donald trump on his post-election legal challenges, with researchers who were helping rudy giuliani try to cobble together evidence of election fraud. and we know that coffee county is of course one of the areas that she's scrutinizing as a place to bring potential charges, anderson. >> elie, the fulton county grand jury, they've presumably been hearing testimony that overlaps with jack smith's election interference case. i assume if trump is indicted here in georgia, the federal case would take precedent. >> i would think it would have to as a practical matter. i've been on both sides of this equation. what normally would happen is you would get on the phone with your counterpart and you would say, okay, looks like we're on the same turf here. who's going to go first? are we going to share resources? by our reporting, by the d.a.'s claim, she has not done that yet. she said, i wouldn't know jack smith if i saw him. there's a peril if they don't coordinate. they could be stepping on each other's toes. they could be looking at -- it could be that somebody is coordinating with fani willis' team. there's nothing wrong with coordinating. it's done normally and it's good practice and will help them avoid running into each other. >> michael, if and when indictments do indeed get handed up, if it happens in the next couple of minutes, how quickly -- how much do we learn right away? and how quickly do you think fani willis, you know, gets in front of cameras? and how much detail would she give? >> well, we already know there's this proported leak out there of this filing that was done in error. so, it looks like the sheet that the clerk would use has already been prepared. the indictment will be returned. the clerk will have it. it'll be made available to the public, unless of course they secure it for some reason, some security reason. i expect her to come out pretty quick. she's had people all over the country watching and waiting the last few hours. it wouldn't surprise me if she walked downstairs and gave a press conference. it may be better both for the appearance of it and also maybe the security now that we're getting into the evening hours if she has the grand jurors come back, both clean and early fresh in the morning, has a full day to have the indictment returned, have the warrants prepared, get a workout with trump's legal team, some court appearances and things that will be expected in the coming days. that, to me, seems like a clean way to do it as opposed to a rush through the night. either way, maybe legally acceptable, but there may be a way to stage it to her advantage and also, again, maybe build some kind of confidence in the process, as we go along. >> congressman kinzinger, former republican lieutenant governor geoff duncan appeared before the grand jury today. the former president attacked him on truth social saying he shouldn't testify. i wonder how you view that. obviously that's what the former president does. is that intimidation? >> yeah, i think it's an attempt to intimidate. and geoff is not going to be intimidated, thankfully. but that doesn't mean that everybody is not going to be intimidate. and people watching, potential witnesses -- i saw this all the time. i don't want to vote against this because donald trump is going to go after me, at the time on twitter, not the weird social media he has now. i think part of that is to send something out, yes, try to intimidate geoff, but also let other people know he's paying attention. that's his secret sauce. he's overly complimentary of you in person, but the reason he does that is to let you know he's watching. we know he's consuming news all the time. this is going to be an issue, i think, going forward nought frankly and for the next year is what he says on truth social, his intimidation he tries to lay on people. i think i heard elie say on here before that this is probably not the end of any kind of procedures that are going to have to come down against him to stop some of this from happening. >> elie, two former georgia state lawmakers witnessed rudy giuliani's presentations on election fraud. what do you make of the fact they appeared at this late stage? >> there could be a lot of people in play beyond donald trump. our reporting as of a few days ago is that there would be a dozen or more people indicted. we're going to see some very pow rful people potentially on the hook here. if we look at rudy giuliani, we remember he went in front of the georgia state senate and he lied to them. he claimed there was all sorts of massive election fraud. and i think that's likely part of the questioning that was directed at geoff duncan today. so, yes, we are going to see some serious players here, i think, indicted other than donald trump. and these witnesses that are getting it at the end, these are probably witnesses who the grand jurors said they wanted to hear from in person before they wrap this thing up. >> all right. well, we are going to continue to follow this obviously throughout this next hour. sara murray, elie honig, michael moore, adam kinzinger, thanks. next, what the former president went ahead and said anyhow earlier today. and later a teenager's remarkable story and video. he fled into the sea when flames destroyed his community in maui. i'll talk to him and his dad ahead. ...a clown! sorry, w what app was it again? 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i'm an investor in a fund that helps advance innovative sports tech like this smart fitness mirror. i'm also mr. leg day...1989! anyone can become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq, a fund that gives you access to nasdaq-100 innovations. i go through a lot of pants. before investing carefully read and consider fund investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses and more in prospectus at invesco.com. as we wait for the atlanta grand jury to possible return a fourth criminal indictment, the third one is also in the news, the january 6th case. at friday's federal court hearing in washington, judge tanya chutkan warned attorneys and defendants alike to, quote, take special care in your public statements about this case, even arguably ambiguous statements, she said, if they could be interpreted to intimidate witnesses or prejudice potential jurors could threaten the process. despite, the former president continues to attack the judge ane cled her highly partisan and very biased and unfair. he also continued to call the special counsel deranged. cnn chief correspondent kaitlan collins joins us along with former federal judgehye mention attorney fani willis has been reportedly pursuing a rico case against the former president. how would a state level case of that scope compare to the federal case brought by jack smith in terms of gravity and complexity? >> they're both very, very serious indictments. it's just a matter of which one goes first. i agree with elie that probably the federal case will go first. it's huge in scope. and remember, he's the only defendant. so, it's easier to try. this state court case i think will have multiple defendants. it'll have multiple charges, not just the rico charge. it will have other p charges. it's a far more complex case. there will be longer discovery. i think it's going to be behind the federal case. >> in a rico case, as a conspiracy, everyone doesn't get tried together, right? >> oh, yes. oh, absolutely. you can have multiple defendants. i tried rico cases with eight defendants sitting in the courtroom. absolutely. they're all members of the enterprise. it's all a conspiracy. oh, they absolutely can be tried together. >> wow. kaitlan -- >> if they're indicted together, they'll be tried together. >> kaitlan, if the former president were to be convicted in georgia state court, he couldn't pardon himself even if he becomes president again. how much does that sort of loom over everything? >> i think it changes the dynamic of this because i do think when we talk about trump's efforts to be the republican nominee, to win the 2024 election, it's often seen, you know, not just as this political aspiration of his, but a legal comfort, basically, this padding to protect him from the legal exposure in the many indictments he is facing. three of them already, one here in new york, and of course the two federal charges. if he does -- if he is indicted here tonight potentially or this week or whatever the grand jury makes their decision here, it's a fundamentally different case for him. and i also think it's important. georgia was at the core of his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. when you look at the efforts that he went to, that people who worked inside the white house, his attorneys, all these other allies of his, the great lengths they went to to try to pressure the state officials, some of the ones you saw testifying today, this was at the center of his efforts to undo this. i think this is why the trump team is viewing it so seriously here. and you heard from his attorneys here now facing several of their indictments that this is different because it would be state charges and he would not, even if he does win the 2024 election, have that legal protection here afforded to him with the federal cases, where he could either have an attorney general who fires jack smith or who makes the cases go away or he can essentially pardon himself. there's some questions about that. this would not be the case here. it's a state patrol board that makes those determinations in georgia. he would not be able to basically insulate himself. >> judge, would it be possible if he did get elected president and was facing charges in georgia that any court case in georgia would be delayed until after he serves his term in office? and who would have the authority to rule on such a thing? >> well, that's interesting. you know, when somebody says, is it possible, the answer is always, anything is possible. but i think the trial judge in the state court case would is are the power to decide whether to move the case forward, even while he's president, or to delay it until the end of his term. but i don't think it's mandated by law either way. i think it's going to be from the discretion of the judge. >> kaitlan, we talked about this in the intro, the former president attacking judge chutkan again, who's obviously presiding over the federal case, calling her highly partisan, very biased and unfair. clearly there's no reason, despite her ruling on friday and admonition and warning to everybody, there's no sense he's going to stop making these kind of comments. >> trump's legal team was actually kind of happy with how friday went, despite what he has been posting, they thought the protective order that was issued was actually not as strict as they thought it was going to be. not as broad certainly. they thought it was actually a pretty fair ruling to them. there was a robust conversation during that hearing because john lauro, trump's newest defense attorney, and judge chutkan. you've seen trump do what he does with everyone, either a judge overseeing a case against him, a prosecutor. he attacked his own attorney general. he attacked the supreme court. this isn't any of this a surprise. but i think what changes this here is the comments the judge has made. she has directly addressed what he has said on social media, his threats, saying basically if he continues f the inappropriate comments continue, then it could speed up the trial timeline because she believes it could taint a jury pool. and whether you agree with that or not, she is the judge here and she has broad discretion on when this trial is going to happen. i've talked to many of trump's lawyers, former attorneys on his team. they don't like when he does this stuff. but trump's not exactly someone you can just tell him to stop doing something and he'll stop doing something. it almost encourages him to do it more when someone has told him to stop doing something like that. they know and this does not help them. >> judge, isn't the defendant allowed to say the judge is unfair or the prosecutor is deranged? >> right. yes. he has the right to free speech. he can say what he wants. but the judge has warned him specifically not to do that, not to taint the jury pool. and there's a real risk here that what he says could have that impact. i agree with kaitlan. i did a quick count. he's attacked at least ten different judges over the years by name. that's his m.o. that's the way he operates. he attacks the judges and calls them biased and unfair and therefore he can't get a fair trial. it's all a witch hunt. so, this is what he's done over and over again. >> and judge, we learned tonight that donald trump is seeking to have a lawsuit brought by the estate of capitol police officer brian sicknick who died on january 6th after the insurrection, put on hold because of the 2020 election criminal case that he's facing. does that make sense to you? >> well, i don't know. it depends if the evidence in the one case might impact the evidence in another case. and i suppose it would. the civil case is going to have to show much of the same video, call many of the same witnesses. and it may be that the government, in fact, wants to go forward with the criminal case first and not have the same people testify. because if they testify, you know, then you can use their testimony to cross examine them. so, there may be a good reason to hold up on the civil case. >> judge shine lan, it's great to have you on the program. kaitlan collins as well. we're of course going to keep a close eye on the georgia courthouse. breaking news in the death toll from the hawaiian wildfires has risen again. and the governor says it could be dramatically higher, sadly, in the coming days. we'll have the latest as we await a news conference with the governor. arned in every wash, and re-earned every day. tide. america's #1 detergent. ♪ don't let student loan debt hold you back. refi at sofi.com. you could save thousands and get to your goals faster. sofi. get your money right. oh, oh, oh...i'll be the judge of that. oh, that's nice... oh!! searchable, verified reviews. that's better than the ham, and i've never said that. booking.com booking.yeah breaking news, we are expecting a news conference on the wildfires of hawaii with the state's governor about an hour from now. we will bring you new information as we receive it. just a short time ago, the governor, josh green, told cnn the death toll had risen to 99 people. and in the coming days that number could double. there are questions about how well prepared the island was for a major disaster. state officials confirm none of the 80 outdoor warning alarms that are supposed to deliver a loud piercing sound to residents during a tsunami were activated. and "the new york times" says according to the firefighters, the fire hydrants ran dry. we're also hearing more stories of what it took to survive a fire that travelled at one mile per minute. 19-year-old noah tumkinson and his brother, milo, and his mom raced to their cars, as the fire spread. they were caught in traffic. they did the one thing they thought would save their live, escape to the ocean. here are some of those moments rngs beginning with noah speaking with his brother, milo. >> you're going to be okay, milo. milo, your mask is dirty. holy [ bleep ]. yeah, just wash it. >> keeping your phone dry. thank you. my phone is toast. >> we're through the worst of it. we're going to be okay. >> i'm joined now by 19-year-old noah tumkinson and his dad, david. noah, when the fires hit your neighborhood, you were with your mom, you were with your younger brother, milo. how quickly did you realize you needed to get out of there? >> within -- it was about five to ten minutes from when we smelled and saw the smoke over the hillside over up on that big mountain. >> wow, that fast? >> it was about that fast, yeah. >> and you got into a vehicle, i know, but there was a lot of traffic. was it -- how close was the fire when you were actually in your car? >> when we were in our neighborhood, it was starting to shoot embers down on the grass and light the very dry grass on fire. and at one point, we had -- when we were leaving our neighborhood -- fires on both sides of our car. >> so, the decision to go into the ocean, when did you make that decision? >> it was when we were coming down front street, which burned down. and the fire was, at that point, starting to light the buildings across the street on fire. and we knew that we had to -- and our car wasn't moving anywhere. the traffic was so bad, no one was moving. we knew we had to jump in. >> you took video while you were in the water. we're watching some of it. i just want to play you one part of the video where you're talking with the fire on all sides. >> both sides to the left and the right are on fire. the fire is starting to die down. [ bleep ]. >> what was that like? i mean, to see what's happening on shore, the smoke is clearly -- i mean, it seems like it's stinging your eyes. it looks like it was difficult to breathe. can you talk about that experience being in the water? >> it was just so suffocating. the air was so thick, so heavy with smoke. and like i said in the video, if you look to the left, it was on fire. if you look to the right, it was on fire. i think at that moment, i was just realizing that we were going to be in the water for a while. >> how long were you guys in the water for? >> about five hours. >> wow. and you were able to stand in the water. is that right? >> correct. it was about -- for me, i'm about 5'10". it was about chest deep. for my mother and my brother, they're both about 5'4". it was much harder for them to stand. >> you seem -- you're 19. your brother, milo, i understand is 13. you seem to kind of know what you were doing. i mean, you suggest to milo that he doesn't look at the fire. i assume that was because of smoke -- of, sort of, the air coming and hurting his eyes. >> correct. it was for multiple reasons i told them both not to look. it was because the wind was starting to blow and the smoke was that direction, that dark, dark smoke from the cars that were starting to light up. and also the wind and just in general. i didn't want -- i didn't want him to see what was happening behind him. >> david, you live higher up in a different part of maui, and i know you couldn't get in touch with your kids until the next morning. i mean, i can't imagine what that was like for you. >> yeah. it was about 12, 13 hours where i had -- i knew that the fire had gone through their neighborhood by some videos that i saw online. and at that point, i just -- i had no idea. i was not able to communicate with them at all. i just knew -- i had a pretty good idea that their house had burned down. and i was just terrified for them. i did think that, you know, worst case, they're fit enough that they could run at least and get into the ocean. but i had no idea where they were. and it was terrifying to just think all these scenarios, as i was -- i knew i had to try to get some sleep that night and just felt guilty laying in bed knowing that they're who knows where. >> how were you finally able to get in touch with them? >> so, they spent, you know, about 12 hours, start to finish, from when they had to escape from when they finally got rescued. they finally made it to a place where they were able to get a cell phone, go up on top of a building, and they were able to be high enough to get a signal. and noah calmly called me, as i was talking to my neighbor saying, i don't know what's going on? i don't know where my kids are. i haven't heard from them. while i was telling this story to my neighbor, noah called me. and first thing calmly he says to me is, dad, we're okay. we're okay. that was such a relief. at that point, i just knew he was going to be okay. so, yeah. at that point, i just knew everything was going to be fine and what whatever happens, they're safe. and it's all good. life's good at that point because they're safe. >> noah, i understand even though once you got back on shore -- i think you found shelter in a vehicle. you still were in danger. i understand the smoke was just hanging over everything. >> the smoke was just so heavy. and even while we were in the car, we still had our masks on and we got a minute to sit. and, you know being in the car -- of course it was better than being out in the smoke. but it was just still so heavy. it started to feel very suffocating. >> noah, what do you want people to know about what people in lahaina need right now, what the future looks like? >> you know, it's a marathon, not a race. so, we need those donations spanned out along that time. and that would get the most people -- help the most people. >> housing too. people are in shelters, and there's nowhere to go. there's many familys that have taken on other people. we have somebody in our home who her house burned down in lahaina as well. our business burned down. but the owner of the business, his house burned down, his neighbors. everything. so many people are without homes right now. >> you must be so proud of noah and milo. your son, noah, has quite a head on his shoulders. i mean, to be as calm and -- >> incredibly. >> -- incredibly thoughtful in those moments is extraordinary. >> very, very proud of him. from the moment he told me, dad, we're okay, right away i felt so proud he was able to -- i knew -- those words, just the way he said them said so much to me about how the whole situation was handled and that he really was there, the support system for his brother and his mother. and they needed each other to survive. and i'm so thankful for them to all be together and that noah was so calm in this whole thing, very, very calm. it's -- i'm very, very proud of both my boys. >> noah, if i ever get in trouble, i'm calling you because you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and know what you're doing. noah, david, i appreciate both of you. thank you so much. and i wish you continued strength in the days ahead. >> absolutely anderson. thanks. you can find a lot of information about how to help at cnn.com/impact or you can text hawaii to 70-70-70 to donate. back to the other breaking news, possible impending indictments out of georgia. there's a look at the courthouse now, as the grand jury is still inside working at this late hour. we'll take a closer look at the prosecutor, fani willis, her road to the office she holds, and to this moment. c'mon! mom, c''mon! mia! 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[ cheers ] running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. through the processes it needs to go through. again, we are waiting to see what this grand jury may have provided. but we know that the judge is back on the bench, that court is back in session. and we are essentially waiting to see what the grand jury has to hand off to the judge. we also know that the clerk is in the clerk's office. again, here is how this works. whatever the grand jury decided to do today, whatever the grand jury handed up, it gets handed up. it gets walked into the presides judge's courtroom, which is judge robert mcbernie this week. he needs to sign off on any potential indictments. and then those indictments need to be walked into the court clerk's office, where they can be stamped, where they can be processed. so, as we are seeing these folks assemble, we're seeing the judge take the bench. we're seeing the clerk show up in the clerk's office. what we are essentially is everyone going to the places that they need to be in order to process a potential indictment, while we await word of what the grand jury has actually handed up, guys. >> sara, just in terms of what we are seeing on the screen, let's be clear. is this the room where the grand jury was meeting and that's the audience in that room? we're obviously not seeing the grand jury. they're not showing the judge. that's just the reporters, people who have been sitting there waiting for word, correct? >> right. i can't see the room that you're looking at right now, anderson, because i'm looking into a camera. but i think what you're looking at is probably judge robert mcbernie's courtroom. reporters are not allowed into the room where the grand jury normally convenes, where they have been hearing from witnesses all day. but reporters have been sitting in judge robert mcbernie's courtroom all day waiting for any word that the grand jury is wrapping up, waiting for any word that the grand jury has any findings that they are prepared to hand up to this presiding judge today, anderson. >> and then -- so, what will we hear from this room? we will hear from the judge himself? >> yeah. it's sort of up to every presiding judge of how they want to handle these things. you know, some judges, when they're in this position just get a stack of papers. they sign it. they hand it back to an official from the clerk's office and they don't say anything about it. we're waiting to see if judge robert mcbernie is actually going to say anything, presumably when he gets handed whatever is provided to him from the grand jury today. again, the presiding judge has a lot of leeway to sort of decide what he wants to say in this situation. and we're waiting to see if judge robert mcbernie -- >> it looks like the clerk is receiving paperwork now, sara. elie hoenig -- >> yes, i'm seeing -- >> -- our legal analyst is also joining us. what are we watching? >> the stage is set here. this appears to be the final stages. ordinarily what would happen is the prosecutor who's been handling the grand jury proceedings, after the grand jury has voted, assuming they would have voted yes on an indictment, would walk the foreperson over to the clerk's window. we saw someone signing paperwork at a trance loose ent window. some judges do it in open court. the grand jury, forepern, will literally hand up the indictment. that's why we use the phrase, hand up an indictment. the judge will review them quickly. it's just a formality. and then sometimes the judge will announce the case names and numbers. other times that will happen behind closed doors in chambers. and the way we would then find out is when these documents hit the public docket, which would be nearly instantaneously. it does look like there's some security moving through this area here. we don't know exactly who the people are. but, again, you would take the foreperson as a prosecutor, walk with that foreperson to the clerk and then to the judge, where the final sort of stamping would be happening. >> so, it seems like that would be the clerk that was just visited and they are now going to toward the judge. >> could well be. >> is that a safe assumption? >> would well be. sometimes the judge will do this in front of the public in the courtroom. usually it's no big deal. the person just walks up and the cases don't mean much to anybody. sometimes the judge can choose to do this behind closed doors in chambers. it's really up to the judge to do that. i think the courtroom we're looking at here, sara is correct, this is not the grand jury room. you would never have a camera inside a grand jury room. that has never happened. i don't think that will happen. this does appear to be a courtroom where the crowd, the media, assembled there does seem to be expecting some sort of an announcement by the judge. and the judge could well do that and come out and say we've returned the following indictments today, case number such and such, state of georgia versus whoever. >> also former georgia federal judge michael moore is with us. judge moore, i'm wondering, what do you expect to now happen? >> well, at this stage of the proceedings, there's nothing unusual about the grand jury foreperson coming in with the prosecutor. in jor r jo, indictments are going to be presented in open court. and that is the courthouse is to be open, the courtroom is to be open. the judge will have the bench. and at that point, there will be a clerk present. and then sometimes there is a discussion with the judge and can the foreperson, the indictment handed up. they'll flip through the pages to make sure it's signed in the proper places and those things. the indictment will be received and returned in open court. that's what it sounds like is happening here. and, you know, the next step, obviously, the judge will accept it. the docket will be given to the clerk and filed in the public docket and at that point we're off to the race. it sounds to me like this cake is well baked and it's just a matter of time before we see an indictment. it'll be interesting to see if it tracks the charges from the earlier posting that we talked about. >> i think i referred to you as a former federal judge. i apologize. you are a former u.s. attorney. >> i apologize to my judge friends who may have thought i was encroaching. >> michael, this -- this is the indictment being handed to the judge, correct? >> i can't see it, but that is likely what is happening. if the clerk is there, the prosecutor is there, the judge is on the bench and the papers are going up, then i would gather that's the indictment being handed out. >> do we have sound in this room? can we listen in? let's listen in. >> madam. >> mr. royals, everything went as it should have in front of the grand jury? >> yes, your honor. >> all right. ms. alexander, you're prepared to take this. i'm delivering it to the clerk. you'll maintain custody of it from here? >> yes, sir. >> all right. this is for you. does this go with madam clerk? all right. thank you much. >> thank you, si