today on "inside politics," law and disorder. donald trump faces a 5:00 p.m. deadline to fight a justice department request. the former president claims it's an attempt to shut him up. prosecutors say it's to stop the defense from bullying witnesses into silence. plus, seeing is believing. joe biden heads west to literally point to progress. it's part of his plan to make americans feel and see how bidenomics is changing their lives for the better. and a woke up call? new polling suggests a red meat term is now overcooked, even among republicans with plenty of appetite for owning the left. i'm dana bash. let's go behind the headlines and "inside politics." ♪ up first, a looming legal deadline, the trump legal team has until the close of business today to respond to a justice department demand for a protective order. the order would restrict what mr. trump can say about what evidence prosecutors turn over. let's start with cnn's katelyn polantz. what are you hearing? >> dana, this is a typical provision, it's called a protective order and that's what donald trump and the justice department are fighting over now and a judge is going to have to figure out what to do here. this is one of the things that happens very early in nearly every criminal case and essentially the justice department wants something like this to protect the integrity of the trial. so the trial doesn't take place before the actual trial begins in court before juries. right now what is being fought over is whether or not there have been a nondisclosure provision placed over all of the evidence that the prosecutors have to give to donald trump's defense team so that they can get ready for trial, and the fight right now seems to be sort of a meta fight over timing because donald trump's team is saying publicly and in court already that they want to go to trial as quickly as possible, but they're refusing to come to some sort of terms with the justice department on one of these nondisclosure provisions, a protective order. so the judge has moved pretty fast here, judge tanya chutkan has set this deadline for 5:00 p.m. today for donald trump's team to respond to the justice department here. trump, too, is on social media essentially saying he's going to oppose this, but we have to wait and see what his lawyers are going to say in court. he's writing, no, i shouldn't have a protective order placed on me because it would impinge upon my right to free speech. deranged jack smith the special counsel and department of injustice should, however, because they are illegally leaking all over the place. that's trump on social media. now, calling this a free speech issue is extremely reconductive, this is not a gag order, typical in cases like this. even steve bannon an aide to him had something like this in his own criminal case. >> that's important context. thank you for that is correct katelyn. here at the table is cnn's paula reid, former federal prosecutor elliot williams and former deputy director of the fbi andrew mccabe. elliot, you heard katelyn say this is not a proposal for a gag order meaning you can't speak at all. a protective order, my understanding, obviously you are all attorneys, but you're somebody who you have done this in court, is pretty standard. talk about the dynamics and frankly the posturing that's going on right now. >> sure. big, big, big difference between those things. a gag order is where you in effect silence a defendant or party in a case or witness about talking about the case publicly for whatever reason. judges hate doing that. that's not what this is here. a protective order governs how evidence that the prosecution has in its possession gets handled. they have to turn it over to the defense prior to trial. what does the defense do with it? can they show it to other people? where can they view it? how can they view it, who has access to it? that's a pro he can testify order. the judge will hammer out all of this. i'm curious to see how quickly she rules on t she's probably doing research on it right now and could issue a ruling pretty quickly i think. >> paula, what are you hearing from your sources? >> there are questions about how this was handled. this request came in late on a friday, some people on a trump camp suggested that it was jack smith being upset about the social media post but that is a well-founded concern. we know the former president has weaponized his socl media. >> i don't mean to interrupt you but i want to put up for our viewers what you are talking about when you talk about the social media post. this was in the request. if you go after me, i'm coming after you. that was a donald trump post. >> so you file something really late, a request like this late on a friday afternoon. as we know, judges they don't tend to work on summer fridays so you are not going to get an answer. there is suggestion inside the trump camp that they were upset about the social media post which feeds into this narrative, they're arguing somehow this effort to infringe on trump's free speech. that's not what they're getting at here. they want to make sure if he reads a sensitive part of a grand jury interview or some other key piece of evidence he is not going to throw it up there on social media. i was told usually this is handled on a piece by piece, evidence by evidence basis as opposed to one blanket order but this is certainly not a gag order and no one is infringing on his first amendment. >> this is the opening salvo and maybe it will set the table for how the judge handles both sides. let's look at the big picture of this case. i spoke with john lauro who is one of the former president's attorneys and specifically was talking to him about the allegation in the indictment about what the former president asked his vice president to do, which was completely send back the slate of electors, at least initially and then to put a pause. listen to the way he described it. >> what president trump did not do is direct vice president pence to do anything. he asked him in an aspirational way, asking is covered by the first amendment. >> can you talk about that term, aspirational and is that a legal thing? >> no. it's not. i mean, in any -- i mean, let's take this to the employment law context, right? when your boss asks you to do something, and that's coming from your boss, that's more than an ask. it carries the -- it carries the significance, it can carry the significance of coercion and influence, right? we know this from decades and decades of employment law. this is like the most obvious employment situation, your boss is the leader of the country -- >> you're choosing employment because donald trump was mike pence's boss? >> exactly. exactly. it's not an ask, it's not just an ask. if it comes from someone who has power and authority over you, that's uniformly recognized as a different thing. but put that aside. what donald trump has been accused of doing is conspiring to defraud the government. conspiring to obstruct an official proceeding. so he is not being charged because specifically he asked, they had this one conversation. those conversations are evidence of the agreement and the effort that he put in with his co-conspirators, allegedly, to defraud the government and to obstruct an official proceeding and to deny approximately 80 million americans their right to have their votes counted. >> and yet it is a window into the defense that we are likely to see during this trial. another window into that, john lauro did all the rounds, he did every sunday show yesterday, this is another thing that he said with regard to violating the constitution. >> he never said, no, that's wrong, that's wrong. a technical violation of the constitution is not a violation of criminal law. that's just plain wrong. and to say that is contrary to decades of legal -- of legal statute. >> a technical violation of the constitution? i'm not sure exactly what he is referring to there. but what they lay out in the indictment is this alleged conspiracy, right, to completely undermine the democratic process. it's not a technical violation of the constitution, it's a pressure campaign both on states, on his own vice president, on his own justice department. this is not a, quote, unquote, technical violation of the constitution. so i'm not sure that's going to be john lauro's strongest defense. >> yeah, i think what they're getting at, sort of reading between the lines, is that the constitution doesn't set a lot of rules, it sort of set out broad principles and says, well, we have the electoral system, where states will each have votes on presidents, but it doesn't lay out the mechanics of things will happen on december 14th and june 6th and so on. i think he's saying that because the president with as tinkering with that none of that's expressly prohibited by the constitution so it's just a technical -- to paula he is a point it's a little confusing where they're going with it. >> and those counts aren't counts of violating the constitution. they are counts of violating u.s. federal criminal laws. 18 usc 371. i mean, there's -- he's conflating the two to try to say, look, it was a -- >> that's an interesting point. important point. >> -- it was a trivial argument about dates, about just postponing the count from this day to that day. it's not trivial, but that's not actually what he's been charged with. >> both of this and the aspirational thing, it -- you know, at the heart of their defense is going to be we were bouncing ideas around, we were just testing things out, and this was where we landed. >> absolutely. >> do you know what they were trying to test things out with, the vice president. let's listen to what he told me yesterday. >> what the president was convinced it seemed to me in december was that i had some right to reject or return electoral votes. i don't know what was in his heart. i don't know what his intentions were, but i do know that he and his lawyers asked me to do. what i want the american people to know is that president trump was wrong then and he's wrong now. that i had no right to jeefr turn the election. i had no right to reject or return votes. >> he suggested to me that he would be a witness, he said, you know, he would do his duty and john lauro on another network said that he thinks mike pence would be one of their best witnesses at a trial. >> clearly he's just speaking here suggesting that vice president mike pence would be their best witness at a trial, it would be extraordinary to have the former vice president take the stand and talk about this pressure chain campaign that he faced. almost every conversation he had with the former president between the time of the actual election day an january 6 it appears this this issue came up even on christmas day up until january 6th it efl s. it would be truly extraordinary if pence took the stand and he would be an incredibly valuable witness. >> nick valencia is in atlanta. nick, you're seeing new signs fulton county is preparing for an indictment against mr. trump. what are you seeing? >> reporter: that's right, security preparations have really ramped up here in the course of the last several weeks, they've been putting up metal barricades, some of these plastic barricades they've filled with water to make them harder to move. part of these ramped up security preparations have to do with the countless threats that the fulton county da has received since leading this investigation. over the covers of the last year some of those threats fannie which will lace have been credible. she said she's needed to change her own personal security detail. the rhetoric coming from the porm does not help that. he's called fani willis a racist, he's said that this investigation is politically motivated and now we're seeing road closures around fulton county courthouse, pryor street the road in front of the courthouse has been shut down. i mentioned the barricades, a heavier than normal police presence and this letter that fani willis sent to law enforcement agencies around fulton county telling them to be prepared for the potential of an indictment to happen anytime between now and the end of the month or september 1st. there is two currently, two grand juries seated in fulton county, one will be tasked with hearing the evidence gathered by the special purpose grand jury, remember, dana, they handed over their charging recommendations in february. it will be that evidence that the grand jury looks at to decide whether or not indictments will be leveled here and trump will be arrested and indicted for the fourth time. dana? >> nick, thank you so much for that report. up next, 2024 gop hopefuls not named trump are trying to focus on anything other than the indictments of the current front runner. we are going to show you what is happening on the campaign trail after a quick break. that's my husband... it's the inspire implant. he's not struggling with cpap anymore. alall that rest is working wonders for him. inspire. leararn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com. i'm jonathan lawson he to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85, and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget. i'm 54, what's my price? you can get coverage for $9.95 a month. i'm 65 and take medications. what's my price? also $9.95 a month. i just turned 80, what's my price? 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[coughing] ...from this highly... ...contagious virus. not all dangers come with warning labels. talk to your pharmacist or doctor... ...about getting vaccinated against rsv today. mark your calendar, day 930 of the biden presidency and florida governor ron desantis just said, point-blank, donald trump lost the 2020 election. >> yes or no, did donald trump lose the 2020 election? >> whoever puts their hand on the bible on january 20th every four years is the winner. >> you can't give a yes or no on whether or not trump lost then how -- >> of course -- of course he lost. >> trump lost the 2020 election? joe biden is the president. >> but for years, literally years, desantis danced around questions on trump's 2020 election lies, but apparently, as you heard, that's changing and his campaign that reset is continuing to take shape, still the florida republican made no mention of the 2024 front runner at a campaign event in iowa yesterday. neither did asa hutchinson, vivek ramaswamy or north dakota governor doug burgum, all of whom attend add barbecue fundraiser. nikki haley referenced trump but only antidote alley. if you listen to their swipitch it's as if trump's third indictment never happened. >> the state of florida stood as a refuge of sanity. >> i understand the rule of law and the importance of it. >> do you want incremental reform or do you want revolution? >> we're taking mass casualties because of our open border. >> all of these issues are big issues, but if we don't have national security, none of it matters. >> here to share their reporting and insights cnn's jeff zeleny, rhonda colvin of the "washington post" and margaret talev of axios. nice to see you all. hope you had a wonderful weekend. jeff, you are on the campaign trail a lot and we think it's important to show viewers what voters in these early states are hearing. you know, it's probably not surprising that at a cattle call like that that they're trying to put the issues forward. it's nice to hear them talking about the issues. are they getting any traction with what they're talking about? i mean, we know we don't see them in the polls, but when you talk to the voters, what are you hearing? >> i think, yes. there is still a sense that the market is wide open among republican voters. for at least half the party. of course, not for all of the party. at least half is going with donald trump at this point, but as we've seen in poll after poll, at least six in ten republicans or about six in ten republicans are at least very interested or open to going in a new direction. so i do think that we have to be slightly patient and watch the campaign play out. these candidates are introducing themselves, they are trying to get some semblance of traction but it's very hard with donald trump in the race. not only that he's in the race -- even if he was in the race without all the indictments but it's harder with the indictments and investigation because the candidates don't want to talk about that. governor desantis finally being asked and finally answering that question i think is a bit of an acknowledgment most republican voters i talk to accept perhaps very hard core true believers they all believe that joe biden won the election as the president. yes, there were some issues perhaps, but i think he was just sort of catching up to reality there. yet polls show that many republicans have questions about biden's illegitimacy. >> more than the majority. >> that doesn't necessarily mean that they think that he lost the election. i think there is some gray space in there. >> i think that's right, and i think desantis sort of proves the adage that, you know, it's easier to take risks when you have nothing to lose. he's seen himself be stuck so far behind in this number two spot that this is a risk worth taking, especially he has pressure from donors saying, you know, you've got to move your numbers. what i think this has the potential to do, it has the potential to bring some of the other republican rivals into the fold to also say, we all know that donald trump didn't win the election and that joe biden won t you've had a couple so far, there's been the chris christie, asa hutchinson block and others who just don't want to talk about it. if by being more openly like let's just say the truth out loud, if desantis ends up moving the needle and making it so that all of the rest of the republican field is saying it, that could change the dynamic. no sign yet -- >> i'm shaking my head because as you're talking i'm thinking to myself your points are absolutely dead on, but how are we talking about this still at day 930 of the biden presidency? and the answer we know is because donald trump keeps talking about it. and that was an interesting point that one of his other opponents who doesn't go to iowa because he's not competing there, chris christie, said to me on "state of the union" yesterday, pretty much unprompted. listen to this. >> the president wanted what happened to happen. he sat, ate his overdunham burger in the white house dining room he has off the oval office and enjoyed watching what was going on. the bigger lie down is that donald trump says he's doing this for us. donald trump is the nominee he will be talking about donald trump rather than joe biden and what we should be focused on is talking about joe biden and his record. >> yeah, overdunham burger. all of these candidates seem to be in realtime trying to calculate what to say. we saw it in the beginning, earlier in the spring, we saw them have more of a tepid response, especially last week when it came down to the indictment news. it seems like they just don't know where to go or how to handle the overshadowing issue of trump. i wonder, though, how long is that going to last, because as we get into primary election season, some of the big dates like super tuesday, the caucuses, they're going to be a lot of trump developments, especially when it comes to trials and new developments in these cases. they are likely either going to ignore full on or they are going to have to find an answer for. >> i think that is right and the -- so many uncertainties in this. there's going to be much more time spent in the courtroom than on the campaign trail. but i think what one thing that the florida governor is doing, boy, he's investing heavily in iowa, he's been there every weekend for long stretches, his super pac announced he's going again on thursday and friday coming up. he's really trying to take advantage of the fact that yes he has a day job as florida governor but he's spend ago i lot of time in iowa and donald trump is not. >>'s know. >> in he's in fwalabama and oth places. we know what consumes his mind. for all of his bluster of the fundraising appeals and things this is getting to him in some respects all of these indictments. that's something to keep an eye on. on the road again. president biden heads west to sell his economic message. stay with us. ♪ chevy silverado o has what it takes to do it all. with up to 13 camera vieiews. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? 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>> reporter: dana, president biden will be hitting three states to highlight his economic record and his legislative accomplishments because, as you noted, iishe one-year anniversary of several key pieces of legislation and e president will be highlighting eachnef them on the different stops of this tour. he heads to arizona is evening, where tomorrow he will be focusing on the inflation reduction act which marks the largest everestments in fighting climate change. on wednesday the president will be in new mexico where he's going to be touting the clean energyanufacturing provisions of that very came law, and then on thursday the president is also going to be in utah where he's going to focus on the pact act which provides veterans benefits for those who were exposed to toxic burn pits and other chemicals. all of those pieces of legislation were passed one year ago this month and so that's where the president is headed. but he's also aiming to trto flip some of his numbers on the key issues. on the economy and on climate change. on both of those issues, dana, the president is under water with 63% of americans disapproving of his handling of the economy, 57% disapproving of his handling of climate change and so this is the white house's ntral task this month and where they thinkhat they can make some ground is by making ameranmore aware of the pieces of legislation that the president has actually passed. those numbers on climate change, for example, in that very same "washington post" poll voters say that they have little familiarity with the fact that this is the largest ever investment in climate change in the inflation reduction act. so ultimately hoping that they can flip those numbers and on the economic front as well. we know that the numbers are looking better in terms of the economy itself, inflation is cooling, unemployment remains very, very low, but the white house hopes that over the coming months as those numbers start to set in with the public, both the perception of it, but also how americans are feeling about their personal finances, they hope that they can flip those numbers in time for next year's presidential election. >> thank you so much, jeremy. let's just look at a couple of other sets of numbers while we sort of think about this. it's economic performance versus inflation is down, unemployment is down, consumer confidence is up, wages are up, but 63% of americans disapprove of the job that joe biden is doing with regard to the economy. that is what this person trip is trying to change. >> it is, and part of the reason that they're feeling that way is because since covid all of america has opinion through a lot of economic psychological trauma and some real economic trauma and prices are higher now than they were a few years ago for everything and joe biden is the person in charge. so the person at the top faces the blame. axios does a monthly focus group series with swing voters, our panel is in michigan tomorrow night and we will be talk about this question. i'm really, really interested. >> do you know who else was in michigan? this guy, jeff zeleny. >> why do the focus group? let's just did jeff. >> let's listen to what you talked to some voters about. >> sure. >> what does bidenomics mean to you? do you know what that means? >> no, i have absolutely no idea what it means. >> democrats have never done a good job selling themselves, that's one problem. i think they need to get out there, you know, like trump and everybody did and just start talking about all the things that are going on. >> so interesting. >> it definitely is and the first gentleman we talked to will, a retiree from east lansing he went on to say but i think it means he's doing good things for the economy and it shows. jeremy was absolutely right, the perceptions of the economy have not caught up to the conditions of the economy. without question inflation has cooled, unemployment is down, in michigan at a 23-year low. >> wow. >> it's extraordinary when you think about that. >> michigan especially, yeah. >> but people don't necessarily feel t i talked to a lot of store owners and one store owner said i don't want to talk about politics in my store, others were shopping around, but she said she can feel the mood is brighter. she said the mood is brighter overall, the acrimony has gone down a little bit. so there is a sign that the economy is improving, but there's definitely a sign that the challenges are still under way. and it is the burden of the president to make the case. some of this is on him. some of it's in the fact that he's not the best public speaker, the fact that he's not always campaigning and there is a lot of or the stuff going on. a lot of trump news is overshadowing everything here. that is one of the things i think we found. there definitely is a sign of the economy when you travel around that things are slightly getting better, voters need to catch up to that. what do you see when you go out on the road? >> it's hard for this perception issue that the white house is facing, it's hard to break through that because as margaret pointed out there is a lot of noise, americans have been going through a lot of psychological trauma in the last few years so that's competing for people to try to figure out what biden has done and these policies that he's out on the road about this week, they're really hard to prove to people because if you are not feeling it in your pocket that the economy is going well -- >> someone telling you to feel it -- >> exactly. put a name on t bidenomics. >> those bills were so big, there was so much in those bills they would have to be broken down. >> one subgroup that we're watching as i think we probably all are noncollege educated voters. my friend who writes axios' sneak peek newsletter has been watching this trend where biden has long had a problem with white non-college voters, but his lead with nonwhite non-college educated voters has shrunk considerably since the last time around. some of that is on some of the cultural issues that subgroup is a little more moderate rather than progressive, some of it's on the economy. these are people in their daily lives they don't feel all this great economic rebirth that the economists are talking about. >> i have something here, 30 points from where he was during an election day in 2020 to where they are now. >> which is remarkable. that really shows all the gains that they need to make here. i think one thing on infrastructure, this was such a landmark bill. one thing that the biden white house is doing is they are trying to be a little bolder in taking credit for this and pointing out that republicans voted against these. you cannot drive across -- all the road construction you're seeing, all the construction at airports and other places that's the infrastructure law at work and so so much more. but they have to make the case. that's why they're fanning out across the country. >> so interesting. okay. so is the war on woke not a war that republicans want to fight anymore? 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get away from the term "woke" and it turns out that the people who are all about woke maybe are not appealing to what voters want to hear. >> you have to wonder if people really know what it means. does it resonate with them? it doesn't look like it does. you know, the culture war issues was something when we saw some of the off-year elections, gubernatorial elections, state legislatures, that worked a few years ago, but making it a centerpiece of a campaign i don't know if that's going to be a lasting strategy throughout the rest of the primary season. >> well, the sort of -- the leader of the woke brigade of course has been the florida governor, ron desantis. he actually i remember as you were talking he told our colleague jake tapper last month that if you know it you see it, meaning like what is woke. i know people don't know what it is, but i know what it was. let's just look at the number of times just the little snippet of the number of times he has talked about this issue. >> you can't just say let it go because then we're going to be living under an oppressive woke-ocracy. >> i believe that woke ideology represents a war on truth itself. >> to be yet another institution in american life that gets infected with the woke mind virus. >> woke agenda. >> we rip the woke out. >> i don't know how i missed the woke-ocracy, was that a thing that you guys -- >> i got distracted by rip the woke out. i actually think that like anything else in politics it's like politicians are going to drive as far as they can without cross ago line and get as much out of it as you can. i don't think that the woke thing is over to the extent that, you know, there are places in the american suburbs and excerpts where arguments about teaching kids about social liberalism or stuff in schools is still going to resonate with voters. it wasn't that long ago that glenn youngkin found the right way to calibrate this much to democrats dismay and take the statehouse. but i think disney seemed to have cross add rubicon for governor desantis, still an incredibly popular company with republicans and independents as well as democratic people with children. so i think you're seeing the limits here of the debate. >> that's so true. it's the limits of the debate. it's not as if there aren't people in this country who are interested and who sort of perk up when you hear some arguments about the culture changing, but there was a quote from a voter, a pennsylvania voter in the "new york times," which completely makes your point and her name is christy boyd, she said, if you don't like what bud light did, don't buy it. if you don't like what disney is doing, don't go. that's not the government's responsibility. and one of the most interesting divides that i saw, we talked about this, going into this republican primary contest was that republicans like desantis were saying we want to use government to change culture, whereas the traditional old school libertarian conservatives were more like christy boyd. >> without a doubt. that was one of the first warning signs for governor desantis that this was not going to be as strong of a national message as it was necessarily in florida. i remember when a new hampshire governor chris sununu before he decided and told you he wasn't running for president, he was one of the first republicans to criticize the florida governor saying, what, this isn't conservatism. we're using essentially big government to tell a company what to do. but i think voters often should be our guide, they make the decisions in this process and christy boyd as i have heard so many people say the exact same thing. if you don't like it don't do it. the libertarian strain is very much alive. i think that this is one of the other reasons that the desantis campaign is doing a reset because the wokeness of it all is not as popular. but i was down for his inauguration in january and his -- the main sound bite quote was this is a state where woke goes to die. >> yeah. >> and he got big applause there. in iowa it's fallen flat. >> but in florida they of course now made famously infamously changed the education laws and put the line in there about slavery giving people skills. ron desantis did an intervie with nbc today and seemed to be doubling down on the notion about slavery. i will read to you what he said. so tt means they developed skills in spite of slavery, no the because of slavery. it was them showing resourcefulness and then using those skills once slavery ended. and the people that put ose standards together were scholars of african american history. they were not political standards. florida eliminated critical race theory because its ideology and we want education not indoctrination. >> his line about slavery and job skills, that's going to be an indelible mark, i think, on his campaign. he has to routinely come back to it, try to back pedal and it's just -- it's going to be there. he's going to be asked about it from here on out. i think it also shows us again that either when you were talking about woke or talking about critical race theory, what works in florida may not work in the 49 other states who have to vote to potentially make him or anyone else a nominee. so it's just going to be interesting from here on out to see how he plays this. >> okay. we will go to the other side of the aisle after a quick break and talk about somebody who is arguing it is not a competition or should be a competition, not a coronation. democratic lawmaker said that and is talking about what democratic primary voters he thinks really want. we're going to talk about that next. but the same ai-powered security that protects all of google also defends these services for everyone who lives here. ♪ he snores like an angry rhino. you've never heard an angry rhino. baby i hear one every night. every night. okay. i'll work on that. save uto $500 on the new sleep number® smart bed. plus, freeome delivery when you add an 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(scream) here comes the choo-choo train of love! inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com. wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. and it's all right here. streaming was never this easy, you know. this is the way. you really went all out didn't you? um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. now, a different democratic congressman dean phillips to other democrats. project democrats are telling me that they want not a coronation, but they want a competition if we don't heat that call, shame on us, and the consequences, i believe, are going to be disastrous. my calls are those who jump in because democrats in the country need competition. it makes everything better. that's my call to them right now. >> the panel is back with me. that's pretty amazing, to have a sitting democrat, house democrat go out there, and he says he does not want to run, but other democrats should get in and run against a sitting president. >> that is a can of worms most democrats i talked to are afraid of opening kit history will show when a president is challenged in a primary, that is a problem for them. george h.w. bush, et cetera. he said he does not want to run for president, hasn't ruled it out. i talked to a fellow minnesota member who thinks his ego has gotten a little bit inflated here because he is talking about this. who knows? he has said early on, he has been saying for months he thinks that the president's age is an issue and other people, there should be a younger infusion of people, but it's harder to put together a campaign than to talk about it, so color me skeptical. >> it does not seem like representative phillips, his sentiment about joe biden is being talked about loudly, like you said. democrats might say things behind closed doors, but they are not going on tv and discussing it. i do think he is representing perhaps some anxiousness among democrats who are a little nervous about what a biden and trump matchup looks like it we know from polling that the two seem to be in a dead heat if they are the nominee, so that's making some democrats nervous, but i'm not sure if his view is widespread. >> i think if donald trump is not the republican's nominee, there may be a moment when everybody in the democratic body goes, shouldn't we have had a conversation about other people running? but until that moment, i don't see it, and it's true to the congressman's point that a lot of democrats say thewish they had an alternative, but when you ask them who, there's zero consent since on anyone's numbers that come close to joe biden's. >> let look at what democratic primary voters think about the notion of nominating somebody else . 64% before july 2022. now it's down to 52%, but that is half. the feeling, the sentiment, and the reality might be a different thing. >> i think this would mean a full on ideological discussion about the democratic party, so you would have, you know, at my earpiece falls out here, you would have essentially the same arguments without re-litigated in the 2016 at 2020 camping with bernie sanders and joe biden , and vice president harris, would she be the front runner in this scenario? a lot of worms that people don't want to talk about. >> your ear, my coughing, we got there it here thanks, guys. appreciate it. thank you for tuning in talking politics." 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