"reliable sources." but first you know the biggest story this weekend is the firing of chris cuomo from this network, cnn. i have been working the phones ever since this was announced yesterday evening. frankly, i have been on the phone until the last five minutes here getting information about what happened, and where cnn goes from here. so i would like to start, now that you know the news about cuomo's firing with a timeline of how it came to this point. why was chris cuomo fired now after cnn management supported him all year long? that's the key question i have been pursuing as a media reporter for the past, you know, 18 hours or so. so here are the answers i have so far. let's take a look at the day-by-day timeline this week to catch you up. on monday the new york attorney general general's office released that document dump. it landed with a thud. there was a lot to read, some of it damning. some of it about chris. now cuomo's view was he never engaged in opposition research on behalf of his brother andrew. cuomo said never smeared anyone, never went after his brother's accuseders and plus the attorney general's office never accused him of that. but the documents, text messages between cuomo and the governor's aides showed a level that was alarming to many. cnn on monday bought time to scrutinize the documents by saying it would conduct a thorough review. on tuesday, cuomo's producers were back at work to produce another episode of "cuomo primetime" but there was growing criticism of the anchorman outside and inside cnn. by the evening management had seen enough in the documents to take action. cuomo was suspended, "indefinitely," pending further allegations. this made clear not until just the end of the week as form of punishment, but as a represent ra and mad. it also left a quote return after the holidays" from that. it seems to me it was balancing the hands of staffers with the feelings of viewers. the point about reporters crossing clear journalistic lines and damaging brands and on the other side, concerns about cuomo the person and the fact he put his family first. some of you felt all of the above. my phone was lighting up with calls from cnn staffers, some saying cuomo should have been fired right away and also calls from cnn viewers that cnn was being unfaired to cuomo. and now amongst this cnn had a investigation to assess the dump and kra van was quietly looking through tests, looking to public statements, looking to see if it lined up. at the same time cnn's boss jeff zucker held a primetime meeting with the staff's show and the sentiments were there were reportedly in cuomo's favor. those staffers from the 9:00 p.m. show talked about the anchorman's talent and the pride knelt in the show. so there was a real wide array of feelings in this house. you've got cnn staffers saying get rid of him, he shouldn't work here, he's hurt us. and then you have some of his own producers saying let's bring him back. he should be back. here's the other thing that was unknown to the staff and the press and the public, late wednesday a lawyer contacted cnn with a sexual misconduct complaint about cuomo. on thursday cnn management reckoned with 245 charge, which was from ab an anonymous woman who worked with cuomo years ago at abc. "the new york times" and other outlets had investigated chris in the past, looking for signs of the same allegations that caused his brother's political downfall. so whether a cnn spokesperson announced additional information came to light, it was referring to that misconduct allegation. now right now i know almost nothing about that allegation. nothing has been reported about it publicly other than the fact this staffer worked with cuomo at abc. but we'll catch upmc with that. we're going to friday. the law firm core van turned in the results of its review friday and the review determined cnn had grounds to terminate cuomo. cnn notified cuomo of the firing saturday afternoon. and then went to the memo these decisions are not easy and there are a lot of complex factors involved. chris saying in a statement, he didn't want his cnn career to end this way and thanked his staff for the great work they've done over the years. as for the misconduct claims, cnn broke that news late saturday saying she came forward because of chris cuomo's on-air statements about his brother earlier this year. so far, let me check my emails, cass has not responded for my requests but a spokesperson responded saying these apparent allegations are not true. "the times" reporter terry ganter pointed out both cuomo brothers lost their positions in the wake of me too accusations. so what happened here? this is about a confluence of factors. about a series of headaches that seemed like they were never going to end. i said on the lafrt night when the news broke, this seems like a case of a death by a thousand cuts. by mortgaging sense backed that up. this is not just a single headache but many headaches that continued to pile up. it seems cnn management had decided to terminate cuomo based on the law firm's review, faced on the document dump, based on his behavior with his brother and then the sexual misconduct allegation also came along and it was yet another factor. a cnn spokesperson saying overnight when the new allegation came to us this week, quote, we took them seriously and saw no reason to delay, taking immediate action. so there's still some unknowns here, some unknowns about what that sexual misconduct allegation is. it's possible reporters will reveal more in the coming days. as i mentioned, i have not heard back from that lawyer yet. but cuomo's defense, the outside pr person he's hired to defend him, says these apparently anonymous allegations are not true. so there's a lot more to unpack here. it's been a bruising week for cnn, and with a significant change in primetime and there could be more fallout to come. so i want to bring in three non-cnn voices into the conversation to be as transparent as we can with you at home. with me now is sara fischer, media reporter for axios. david zurawik, professor for media studies at goucher college and journalist and host of run tell this podcast, formally of nbc. thanks for assembling this morning. sara, you have been reporting on this just as i have. what are the biggest unknown questions you have this morning? >> brian, like you, i want it know what's actually in that complaint and i do think we're going to get more reporting about that as it comes along. i also want to know why cnn delayed taking action. they said in their statement they had taken action finally once the allegations had come through but they had cause already. if you already had cause, why didn't they immediately fire him then? i also want to know about this pending investigation. they say they're going to continue to investigate this matter further. what does that mean? are they going to commit to making the revelations for that investigation open to the public? are we going to learn more about cnn, about their culture, about this exact situation? and then finally, what precedent does this set for the news media? so many people in news have personal connections to people in power. does this change the way we think about how reporters and correspondents and anchors deal with personal situations? i assume it will but we will only see it as time goes on. >> great point. there's such a complicated case here where you have this apparently -- former abc staffer, somebody who worked with cuomo at abc, making this allegation and then you have all of these producers who currently work for cuomo singing his praises, and they are -- at least the people i talked to -- quite disappointed cuomo is terminated. a lot of tension in this. let's go to david zurawik next. ultimately this is about trust in media, as sara was referring to, as cnn lost trust as a result of this, zurawik? >> i don't know. that's hard to say if cnn lost trust. i think this really, brian, goes to the heart -- and sara's right. these relationships are out there. people know about them. and it is one of the things that makes people not wary, they don't trust the press because they think it's leets dealing with elites taking care of elites. we say we're watchdogs but we watch some people harder than other people, there are friends, relationships, people trying to court favor with powerful people for information. here's the problem. we really lost sense of media ethics. in our profession, especially in the last few years, you have to ask yourself first, and this is the mistake chris cuomo made and in some sense i think cnn made the same mistake in not forcing to ask it, who do you work for? who do you serve? obviously you serve and work for your employer and you don't get a check. but beyond that, who are you talking to? you should be serving the public. that oftentimes puts you at odds with people in power. you have to sacrifice that. if somebody cuts you off for information because they don't like the information you're giving the public, too bad. too many people in this business -- and i think this is a little worse than it is, well, i don't know, i shouldn't say that, it's not bet are in print than it is in tv, it's across the board for everybody now because we're all one big digital world. people don't ask that question. cuomo, come on, he's a lawyer. he should know this. he should have asked himself that, and he wasn't. people say look, he wasn't. he was taking care of his brother. he wasn't giving me information. if you were a resident of new york, he wasn't giving you information that would help you cast a vote forewisely in the next election or whether to support the governor. no, he was serving his brother. that complicates it because of the brother. >> that's what i think, this is a once-in-a-lifetime ethical dilemma. doesn't necessarily let him off the hook but there's never going to be another he moment like this as a brother anchorman and governor in the middle of covid and once he gets covid. this is a once-in-a-lifetime situation that doesn't mean everyone necessarily did the right thing at the right time, but it was unique. mara, let me go to you on who did what when. sara stated cnn waited to ask. the accounting review said when the report came back, he was fired within 24 hours. how do you see it, mara? >> you said the word bottom line and i think a lot of people understand chris cuomo's impulse to help his brother. so when the report came out, i think it was wise to wait and see and get additional information. but the documents released last week showed that chris cuomo did cross a bright red line of journalistic ethics. this is not a great question. it would be not a strategizing advice to provide information to a governor in the midst of a crisis. once those documents were released, i don't think cnn had any choice at that point. the decision they made, i'm sure, was not an easy one but it was the right one jurn list tickly. when you asked about the trust in the media i think a circumstance like this enforces the public's trust in the media because they did make the right call on such a clear-cut case here. and when it comes to sources, the coating of sources, this comes to good relationships yielding good information but when they get too cozy and too close, that's when we can stray into this territory and that's what we see here. >> let's spread out until 9:00 p.m. the 9:00 p.m. up for grabs. smiekal smerconish is filling in this week, booked already before he was fired. cnn staff, nothing changes, new show to produce. the 9:00 p.m. hour at cnn suddenly open. msnbc 9:00 p.m. hour about to open. rachel maddow will be on maybe once a week starting next spring/winter. 11:00 p.m. hour with brian williams. sean hannity, gone for years at fox. what does this mean for the era of cable news? >> it's not over. rachel maddow negotiated a contract better than ever before. >> but she won't be on every day? >> no, but she will be doing specials, et cetera. cnn, it's an idea now of having a strong digital presence, podcast. cnn is launching a streaming network next year. having a big primetime show is not the only outlet to be a star and succeed and they're reliesing that. cable tv, auk it's awkward to say while i'm on cable tv, it's in decline. and while i might be smarter in my career, what maddow is thinking, maybe do documentaries that could be on streaming services and do more podcasts. that will be the stronger way eventually to reach all of your audiences than just relying on a primetime stop. >> the counterterm of political deline when something bad happens in the world, 3e78 still know where to go. however, they might want to stream it rather than watch on linear cable. zhuzh, how do you view the landscape changing with cuomo's departure? >> it is a huge thing and that's a big part of the story, brian. chris cuomo, as a performer, as tall ept in the 9:00 p.m. time slot, did a terrific job. he did a terrific job. he had almost a million viewers a night. he was competitive in the toughest primetime time slot there is. that complicated, i'm sure, for cnn when they were dealing with him because he was so successful as a performer in that time slot. listen, i have separation anxiety about -- not msnbc, but i have separation anxiety about brian williams leaving at 11:00 because it means so much. we're losing big stars in this medium and i don't know what the impact is. i think sara is right in the way the larger shifts in the way we get information from cable tv but a lot of folks still spend a lot of time if you count how many hours a day they spend with a cable channel and losing these stars in primetime makes a difference, yes, i think it does. >> and when bill o'reilly was ousted at fox, the conventional wisdom was everyone is replaceable, even bill o'reilly. tucker carlson comes along and got even higher ratings than o'reilly did. this may be another one of those cases but mara, i want you to have the last word. we're have ago and insider talk about cable news war. what's the outsider story people should take away. >> i think for chris cuomo's future, it's absolutely correct, a lot of stars are realizing they don't need traditional outlets to continue to have a voice. we've seen that happen with bill o'reilly, you just mentioned. we've seen that happen with megyn kelly. they continue to realize they can continue to have their own voice and build their own audience. and that's a very viable opportunity for chris cuomo. the idea you can take a star one place and put them somewhere else, they will still be a star. audiences are different. cultures are different in newsrooms. it's not a guarantee he can go somewhere else and pick up where he left off. in terms of how the audience is served, i think this is an important conversation to have, to peel back the layers a little bit and ask these questions about access to power, access to sources, regsships with sources, disclosures journalists need to make, excusing themselves, perhaps taking a leave of absence if he headfelt his fami was priority to him. and these are the conversations we need to have that reinforce trust in the public media to expose some of the fault line. >> i'm glad you said that. looking back at the leave of absence, which we raised on the show months ago, that might have been the cleaner path forward. more importantly, you can't pick your family but you can choose how you handle your day job, professional life versus personal life. i hope this really sad case is a lesson for others. mara, thank you. sara and david, please stick around. up next here on the program, chris christie, he went hard selling that book called "republican rescue" but why is it such a flop? what went wrong? eric boehlert is here with his thoughts. and new conspiracy theories around a new trial. what is going on with conspiracy thinking when it comes to the maxwell trial? get a quote today. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ deposit, plan and pay with easy tools from chase. simplicity feels good. chase. make more of what's yours. a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes must be carried across all roads and all bridges. it's not magic that makes more holiday deliveries to homes in the us than anyone else, it's the hardworking people of the united states postal service. at fidelity, your dedicated advisor will work with you on a comprehensive wealth plan across your full financial picture. a plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. this is the planning effect. trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high ♪ ♪ you know how i feel ♪ (coughing) ♪ breeze driftin' on by ♪ ♪ you know how i feel ♪ copd may have gotten you here, but you decide what's next. start a new day with trelegy. ♪ ...feelin' good ♪ no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy. and save at trelegy.com. this weekend, sharply criticizing some major news outlets. it's the president doing it, chief of staff, press aides, all seemingly speaking out about what they see as too much negativity in the news coverage. white house chief of staff ron klain saying we should read this story. i will show it to you in a second. and here's aide mike gwynn calling out reporters for not asking about the jobs' reports friday, but asking about biden's cold. of course, both are important, one more important than the other. and getting a lot of buzz on twitter, he says journalists are contributing to the murder of democracy and he has he has data gathered by an artificial intelligence machine to show the press has turned more negative against biden than the press was against trump at this time in trump's first year. what do you think about that? is that possible? does it ring true to you? i think it rings true to my next guest. let's bring him in. eric boehlert, he runs the press run blog and he's here with me. eric, thank you for coming on the program. >> thank you for having me. >> you never hold back with your media critique coming from the left against the media. do you think the biden team is right to be out there griping, airing grievances about the press right now? >> oh, sure, and i think it's long overdue. these are not insulting tweets. these are not denigrating tweets. we are not suggesting the press is the enemy of the people or anything. they're saying hey, press, you're missing this story. specifically talking about the economic coverage and inflation coverage and jobs report coverage. they are saying you are missing a big story and missing it several months. i think it's absolutely right for them to ask the press for a little self-reflection and a little account act. and the dana milbanks' column is very important and i think it is convincing that biden is getting worse coverage than trump. if trump were a traditional republican president, if he had been a jeb bush president, that would be okay, look, trump got bad coverage, biden gets bad coverage, everybody gets bad coverage. trump was a fascist, pathological liar. trying to destroy free and fair elections in this country and the fact this left of center president gets worse coverage, i would stop to ask what are we doing here and is it accurate? >> i'm definitely hearing that white house aides are saying the same thing they're saying on twitter, the press is piling on, not paying enough attention to positive economics at a point but paying way too much attention to more negative economic data points. can we agree if it bleeds, it leads? negativity bias is nothing new when it comes to policy coverage or all news coverage? >> i think it's a little different talking about economics. i have been focusing on that and i think the white house is focusing on that too. inflation exists. nobody likes spending $90 to fill up their suv. that's a story. but put it in context, inflation does not equal the economy. and the press the last two months has presented inflation as all of the u.s. economy. and it's just not true. the jobs report on friday, a lot of coverage said this is a bad jobs report, this is a bad jobs report. unemployment is down to 4.2%. before biden passed the covid relief bill in february, cbo said it will take four years for this country to get down to 4.2% unemployment. we're four years ahead of schedule. this is an historic recovery. this is an economy that is red hot in many ways. look, it's coming out of a global pandemic, so it's complicated. there's nuances. we're getting good news and bad news at the same time. that's very unusual for an economy. usually it's all good or all bad. the press really, here's the point. take your thumb off the scale. tell the story, tell the economic story as it is. don't be so committed to a story line that joe biden is the new jimmy carter. it's just not true. >> speaking of story lines, there's one out there about chris christie and it's thanks to you. you wrote about his new book "republican rescue" received a lot of tv attention, lots and lots of interviews across television yet it's a flop. barely sold any copies and did not make it on "the new york times" best-seller list or any other major best-seller lists. what went wrong? nobody wants to buy what chris christie is selling, this moderate republican brand? >> my point is, he's a media creation. he left office as new jersey's least popular governor in the history of polling in this country. he ran for president in 2016, survived one primary. he had 20,000 votes in his entire campaign. there's not a democrat in this country that can get in a green room on any news organization with that kind of resume. why is chris christie given an international platform? five years later, why is he considered a important person in our political conversation? he has no constituency. and to your point, what he's selling nobody cares about. we have to move past trump and the big lie but press during his media tour, well, i might vote for trump in 2024. what is this? this is just nonsense. he's trying to peddle his own relevancy. he had the greatest booking tour ever. he was on every show in this country, and nobody really cared. so i think it's a signal to the press maybe chris christie doesn't matter and maybe we should stop giving republicans the national platform just because they have an r next to their name. >> eric, thank you for coming on the program. thanks for never holding back. >> my pleasure. coming up next -- lara logan went from war correspondent to propagandist. what happened? i think we have an answer coming up. he new chicken & bacon ranch, new baja steak & jack, and the new baja chicken & bacon, aka “the smokeshow”" save big. order through the app. ("jingle bells") ♪ (doors knocking and bells ringing to the music) ♪ - [announcer] this holiday season, give the gift of grubhub. a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes must be carried across all roads and all bridges. it's not magic that makes more holiday deliveries to homes in the us than anyone else, it's the hardworking people of the united states postal service. ♪ ♪ ♪ easy tools on the chase mobile app. simplicity feels good. chase. make more of what's yours. what makes salonpas arthritis gel so good for arthritis pain? salonpas contains the most prescribed topical pain relief ingredient. it's clinically proven, reduces inflammation and comes in original prescription strength. salonpas. it's good medicine. if you have this... consider adding this. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesn't... and let you see any doctor. any specialist. anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. so if you have this... consider adding this. call unitedhealthcare today for your free decision guide. ♪ growing up in a little red house, on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort. at fidelity, your dedicated advisor will help you create a comprehensive wealth plan for your full financial picture. with the right balance of risk and reward. so you can enjoy more of...this. this is the planning effect. this is elodia. she's a recording artist. 1 of 10 million people that comcast has connected to affordable internet in the last 10 years. and this is emmanuel, a future recording artist, and one of the millions of students we're connecting throughout the next 10. through projectup, comcast is committing $1 billion so millions more students, past... and present, can continue to get the tools they need to build a future of unlimited possibilities. being anti-facts was his crusade but covid evidently claimed his life. marcus lamb died after being hospitalized for covid-19 recently. lamb led a popular christian broadcast network and used his empire, among other things, used it to spread inaccurate information about covid-19 vaccine. he advocated other treatments instead. one featured prominent anti-vaxxers like robert kennedy jr. though his death made headlines this week, some christian leaders don't want to talk about it, as "the washington post" pointed out in this story. joining me is someone who will talk about it, bob smietana, a former president of the news association. tell us about marcus lamb, for those who doesn't watch his program on daystar, what was he telling viewers on covid-19? >> true. marcus lamb was the head of one of the largest christian broadcasters. he was telling people covid vaccines were dangerous, alternative medicines were better. really there was kind of a conspiracy by the government and the big pharma and the news e news media to give disinformation. he felt he was given the truth about the covid vaccine. >> and how does this relate to the larger scanned lane of christian broadcasting? has there been a lot of anti- -- have there been a lot of vaccine denialism on other networks or programs or broadcast networks as well? >> there's been some. lamb did that. a prominent broadcaster eric metaxas who was anti-vaccine. you get some financial gurus that would not talk about vaccines but was skeptical of covid and anti-mask. what you have, and it throws in the larger, especially christian evangelical landscape, the covid pandemic has been difficult for churches. it's shut them down, cut them off from one another, and seen an attack on religion. >> even though it's not. there's been politicized and unfortunately toxic merger of right wing politics in certain churches that seemed to have advanced and made the situation worse. they're preaching the gospel of donald trump and vaccine denialism. >> yeah, you saw actually recently at a big church founded in san antonio where there was one of these kind of god and country anti-covid rallies where they were shouting in a church, you know, let's go brain dead, which is a political slogan. i think folks see this kind of distrust and anger about the way the country is going and how it's destructive to religion and pentecostal fears like lamb, they have a strong spiritual view of warfare so they believe there are spiritual forces out there at play and see this as an attack. so when he got sick, they saw this as an attack on him for spreading the truth about covid. that's one reason why his folks won't stop with their kind of promotion of this vaccine skepticism and alternative treatments from covid because they see that it's continuing the good fight. >> so lamb's funeral is tomorrow. what does this mean more broadly about christian media? i sometimes fear -- let's call it secular media, does not pay enough attention to christian broadcasting and the world you cover every day. there's been a battle raging about trump and covid and christian media. what do we need to keep an eye on, bob? >> we definitely want to keep an eye on the kind of covid restrictions and and pushback into that. as reporters, i watch christian media not actually because i want to but it's important to see their concerns, they're tapping into concerns of folks, the way covid disrupted the country. they tapped into the whole crt, critical race theory debates, long before it became popular in the regular media. i think this kind of disruption of can people trust one another? i think there's a whole what i would call like -- excuse me, a distrust economy where there is a way to attract people both in the political and religious world, by feeding on distrust and saying they're lying to you. we'll tell you the truth. >> yeah. >> and sometimes folks like lamb were true believers. they believed they were standing up for the good fight. look how the church is disrupted and the country is disrupted over this. so one thing this has done is made it very difficult to talk about vaccines. clergy won't talk about it. even his peers were sad he's passed away may not hold his vaccine views are not going to criticize him for this. they won't talk about vaccines or covid or masks because it is seen as divisive. >> and that makes a bad situation worse. bob, thank you so much for coming on and explaining it to us. >> glad to be here. you will never guess the new obsession with the spirit crowd. we'll tell you about it with the investigative horser who covered jeffrey epstein and ghislaine maxwell l from the beginningng. julia k. brown is up next. to homeses in the us than anyone else, it's the harardworking people of the united ststates postal service. ♪ ♪ cases of anxiety in young adults are rising as experts warn of the effects on well-being caused by the pandemic. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ your eyes. beautiful on the outside, but if you have diabetes, there can be some not-so-pretty stuff going on inside. it's true, with diabetic retinopathy, excess sugar can damage blood vessels, causing vision loss or even blindness. so remember this: now is the time to get your eyes checked. eye care is important to your long-term diabetes management. see a path forward with actions and treatments that may help your eyes— and protect against vision loss. visit noweyesee.com and take control of your sight. . the lies from the looneys sphere began even before the trial. the new cause celebre for conspiracy theorists is the case of accused receive trafficking -- everyone is getting this wrong -- it says ghislaine maxwell, the socialite and former girlfriend of jeffrey epstein, egged on by people like tucker carlson, complaining the maxwell trial isn't being covered by the media. they post these lies from the warmth of their web caves while actual members of the media stand out in the cold to wait to get inside of the courthouse. the narrative got so much traction, the ap ran a fact check. no, the media is not banned from the trial. of course, we're covering it. but the fact is cameras are not allowed in federal court. all we see are sketches inside. there's no live coverage like there was say for the kyle rittenhouse trial. joining me now is julia k. brown, who wrote a book about the case "per vugs of justice: the jeffrey epstein story." she's in new york covering the trial. what is it like to cover the story every day? what are the factors making it hard to cover the trial and helping maybe to cause these crazy theories? >> that's right. the reason why it's very difficult to get in and out of a federal courtroom to begin with because of the security, obviously, but also because they have rules where you can't have cameras in there and you also can't have cell phones in there. so we have to literally go in, go out and get -- drop our phones, go in and come out, get our phones, go through security over and over again so logistically it's a nightmare to cover this case in federal court. >> there's this meme always that every story in the news these days, why has the media not reported on this? they obviously only know about the story because of the media. but there's something different here, deeper conspiracy theory implying the media is trying to cover up sex trafficking. do you see this online the way i have and how do you react to it? >> i think it's really misguided because the issue here is really not the media not covering it, as it always has been with this case, it's always been the government concealing information. the judiciary allowing the sealing of documents in this case. that's what allowed these conspiracy theories to fester because when you can't get access to the courts, when you can't get access to the documents that the prosecutors have, then that -- then the media doesn't have any way to cover that. i think this particular case, the jeffrey epstein case, is a prime example of that because he got away with what he got away with so long in part because a lot of the things he was doing and the investigative process that happened in the -- by the government was hidden. >> right. so even these nutty theories that say the new variant, covid variant, it's been created in order to distract from the trial. there's only so much we can do to debunk truly unhinged theories but regards to folks who might see this online, is the media paying attention? the answer is yeah, you're there every day, and you're going to be there every day for the duration, right? >> yeah. and i mean there are so many media there -- >> right. >> -- there are three overflow courtrooms full of the public and media. >> wow. >> that isn't the issue. the issue is the access to the actual courtroom where this is happening. >> yeah. >> and the fact there's a limited number of people that can really get in. >> right, right. julie, thank you so much for your work. we will be following along the whole time. thanks. >> thanks. ahead -- the latest donald trump statement on the big lie is actually true. i'm going to read it to you next. and this is for new and existing customers. upgrade to the iphone 13 pro and airpods both on us. only at t-mobile. what makes salonpas arthritis gel so good for arthritis pain? salonpas contains the most prescribed topical pain relief ingredient. it's clinically proven, reduces inflammation and comes in original prescription strength. salonpas. it's good medicine. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ with chase security features, guidance and convenience, banking feels good. chase. make more of what's yours. 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(burke) seventeen-car garage you got there? ♪we are farmers♪ ♪bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum♪ a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes must be carried across all roads and all bridges. it's not magic that makes more holiday deliveries to homes in the us than anyone else, it's the hardworking people of the united states postal service. there's so much new in the new chicken & bacon ranch, but the clock is ticking, so we gotta hurry! there's new rotisserie-style chicken, new peppercorn ranch, new hickory-smoked bacon, new- did you just spike the footlong? sorry, i didn't want the delay of game. save big. order through the app. ♪ ♪ ♪ find the silver lining in flight delays. vacation starts at the airport with centurion lounge access. one of the many reasons you're with amex platinum. former republican senator and presidential candidate bob dole has died. he was 98. dole, an american institution and inspiration served america for the better part of a century. his family said dole died erldier this morning in his sleep. his american journey took him from the planes of kansas to world war ii europe and all the way to capitol hill. there he became one of the most powerful politicians of the 20th century. wolf blitzer has more. >> reporter: bob dole was the kind of politician you'll have a hard time finding in washington these days. much of the country only saw the cartoon image, hatchetman. >> senator dole has richly earned his title of hatchetman. >> reporter: pundits who didn't know better labeled him mean spirited. he wasn't defined by grouchiness or gridlock. in the senate where he spent the bulk of his political life, dole bake a master at forging compromise, working with democrats to cobble together bills that left the under better off, a sffood stamp bill, socia security reform with daniel patrick moynihan. >> some might find this surprising given the view that congress has been my life, but that is not so. with all due respect to congress, america has been my life. >> reporter: he also was a driving force behind washington's magnificent world war ii memorial. >> i've become the unofficial greeter. i try to greet every group. i can't explain the emotion and what it means to one of these 80, 90, 95-year-old veterans who get a chance to touch and feel the world war ii memorial. it's probably the best thing that's happened to them in years and they're going to remember it the rest of their life. >> reporter: dole was one of the young americans who went off to the war. on a hillside in italy, an explosion damaged his shoulder and spiend cord. he was hovering near death. >> i looked over in the next bed and they were taking somebody away who was dead. i didn't feel so sorry for myself. >> his right hand remained virtually useless for the rest of his life. his mind, however, was fine. voters in his home state of kansas sent dole to washington for five terms where he thrived, becoming a republican leader this the senate. he was president gerald ford's running mate in 1976 and ran for president in 1980 and 1988, finally winning the republican nomination in 1996. >> william jefferson clinton has a job for four more years. >> reporter: it didn't work out. >> it's a lot more fun winning. it hurts to lose an election, but stay involved and keep fighting the good fight. >> reporter: a 45-year political career was over. dole moved on with grace. >> great senator bob dole. >> reporter: after the bitter 2016 primaries, zoel was the only former republican presidential nominee to attend the convention that nominated donald trump. he poignantly saluted the casket of fellow republican but frequent rival george bush, and to the end dole kept the trademark humor so familiar to those who knew him and so surprising to those who did not. >> we always tried to have a little fun. my view is, if it's not any fun, it's not worth doing. you look at your life in reflection, i think success and failure are not opposites. it's just part of your life. >> a giant of the senate and an american icon. may his memory be a blessing. before we wrap this hour, i turn to a very different story, a story about the state of the modern gop. first a question, where is lara logan? she's been absent since her sick comparison of dr. anthony fauci to a nazi death doctor. by all appearances she's been secretly sidelined. fox is yet to comment or denounce her remarks. this week's awfulness raises another question, one that people ask me all the time. what happened to her? what happened to lara logan? ten years ago she was an acclaimed cbs news correspondent, a respected journalist. but now, in the words of pointer, a trolling opinionist, a far right extremist. what does it say for her go from her war correspondent days, her award-winning work winning all the big prestigious journalism prizes and now on the air, spewing prop gan dachlt let me ask two experts, david ser wishing and sara fischer are with me. we booked a former produce and he wrote in an op-ed he's stunned, doesn't know what happened to her. do you have a theory? >> i couldn't believe my ears when i first heard her comparing anthony fauci to joseph mengala. this is someone who was a big, big star and a greatest on the most important tv production in the history of media, "60 minutes." she's no longer relevant. she's moved to the margins and adopted this playbook that donald trump used and lauren boebert and people on the far right use of being super transgressive to get attention for themselves it's kind of like drug addiction because you have to get worse and worse, uglier and uglier, nastier and nastier and they keep doing that. she's part of that now. it's not sad. it's disgraceful. but more disgraceful or as disgraceful is fox not counting on it, not denouncing these words, and it's disrespect to everyone who perished in the hell of the holocaust and their survivors today. this is deplorable. this is the state -- our political and to some points journ journalistic, declined. >> sarah, do you view this that she has been suspended but not admitting it. >> i have no idea what's happening over there. as david mentioned, they have been very quiet. i mentioned she's probably being evaluated. the fact to david's point, people feel like they have to be so extreme to get some attention. there's no reason to bring up any sort of language of the holocaust as it compares to this covid-19 pandemic. to even bring it up makes no sense to me. i hope fox can comment on it. i'm curious myself where she is and what's happening. >> i did ask this morning. no comment in fox. one more story here. donald trump still writes headlines -- that's not true. donald trump still writes statements from twitter even though not allowed on the platform. he says anybody that doesn't think that wasn't massive fraud in the 2020 election is either very stupid or very corrupt. did you catch the double negative. unwind the double negative and he's saying anyone who does think there not fraud is either very stupid or for corrupt. it went viral on twitter because of the silliness. daniel dale said this is his first ever accurate statement of the legitimacy of the 2020 election. twitter has a new ceo. is it possible trump will be reinstated on twitter and he can post these big lie truths? >> no, no. i don't think trump is coming back to twitter. i think the new ceo is about streamlining revenue. i don't think trump is coming back. i took a look at the amount of times he's sending out these emails compared to the tweets he used to send. it's not even comparable. don't think donald trump is coming back or anything like that. his platform is so much smaller than it used to be. >> good point. zurawik, i have ten seconds. what does it reveal that trump actually told the truth about the lack of fraud? >> fact checkers heads are going to explode. that's i think what happened to dale. >> totally. he admitted you've got to be stupid or corrupt to believe the' licks was rigged. thanks for being here. we're see you online tonight reliablesources.com. later today, 9:00 p.m., ellie reeves new documentary white power on trial, return to charlottesville, 9:00 p.m. eastern time right here on cnn. omicron spreads as the u.s. steps up the fight against the new variant. >> we likely will see more cases of omicron as the weeks and days go by. >> officials say boosters are your best bet. i will speak with dr. fauci. roe at risk. nationwide protection for abortion

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