what does it mean when somebody's defense is bankrolled by righty-fringe political zealots? and they allow a righty-fringe political zealot to embed, to document the process while they go on tv every night advocating for the defendant? listen to what the lawyer told us for kyle rittenhouse about the reality of what was done in this case. >> the people who were raising money -- it -- this defense was crowd funded through donations. >> but who were the people making the calls act who got to have access to the process? >> kyle's family and his adviser. the lin woods, the john pierces, who basically, you know, i think were trying to whore this kid out for money, for their own causes. >> fox pay for that access? did the money guys have a deal with them? this is a problem. that's it for us tonight. "don lemon tonight" starts right now with its big star, d lemon. i don't care if people get access. you know, i was saying to my team, hey, look. if they wanted to give me access to it, i would film somebody's defense in a high-profile case like this. i don't know why a real lawyer would allow it and this one didn't. but the guy is on tv at night saying the kid is innocent. and the same time, the money guys who are paying for the defense want his cameras there? >> chris, you are not shocked by that, are you? >> i am shocked that people who supposedly care about this kid so, therefore, i do not think they do, would allow him and his future to be framed this way. >> yes, it -- because it's about money. it's not just the advisers and whatever. it's the attorneys, as well. you heard -- by the way, i -- he is a great lawyer. he has a great demeanor. i agree with most everything he said. what he said about guns. it's what most americans agree. common sense. look. i believe in the second amendment and i am speaking for myself. he says the same thing. do i want to carry a gun? no, not necessarily. i don't want to be able to carry one around. think most people feel that way. it's not just the fringes but it's also the people who are making money off of him and many times and in this case the beginning because he said as much, it is the attorneys who are making money off of him. i said this to you over and over again about people co-opting people. people taking advantage of people. that is -- that's what's happening in large part on the right from these fringe people, from the fringies, as you say, in media and the fringe attorneys. this is why i liked him. and i paid attention to the trial. didn't know him personally. i just watched him. this is -- when he said this, i'm like he is right on because this is what has been happening under the former administration. he said, you know, when i took this case, i was hired by the first lawyers -- i am not going to use their names -- they wanted to use kyle for a cause and something that i think was inappropriate. i don't represent causes. he said that to you. i represent clients. and the only thing that ended up mattering to me was whether he was found not guilty or not. and then, he says -- the reporter asks him, is that what kyle wants? and then, he answers i believe that is what he wants. but then, you know, then -- then, you know, kyle is going to show up on a -- um, very political. the judge says it's not about politics. very political program. people who are taking advantage of him. making him a cause celeb. it just goes on and on. it is an echo chamber. it is a feeding factory. it is agrift of people who are taking advantage of clients so that they can make money. they can raise their profile and they are not doing what is right for the client. not telling them what is right. that lawyer did the right thing with kyle rittenhouse. that lawyer represented kyle rittenhouse to the best of his ability, and not because he is some right-wing fringy who is trying to make a name for himself or just to make money off of a grift. >> right. two things, just to be clear, if you are just tuning in right now. the lawyer i had on, mark brinkley, is not -- is not to be confused -- mark richards, sorry, mark richards is not to be confused with somebody who is trying to get over on kyle rittenhouse. >> no, he is not. >> but also in response to don's earlier question, no, i have never seen anything like this, so it is surprising. i have never seen a defense process in a high-profile criminal trial be conducted, step by step, as a political instrument, as well. with arguably one of the most divisive people in society. you know, you know you are going to have people saying if he was black, this would be different, right, because we are dealing with systemic injustice right now. and even though this verdict, i believe, is justified by the law and the facts here, that's what we should want every time, people are frustrated that you wouldn't get it if he was black even though this may be the right outcome. but at the same time you are doing that, you are going to have him be weaponized by one of the most toxic people and outfits in our society? >> well, so there -- therefore, when, um, that judge said this -- when he, you know -- the prosecution did a lot of things wrong, right? i mean, this really rests. >> but they had a hard case. >> they had a hard case but they didn't do a good job even with a hard case. i mean, that's obvious to see. and the judge -- the judge is -- you know, squiand i have said t before. think what you want to think about the judge. that's not my business. the judge's behavior, i think also divided people in -- in this case. if you look at the judge, and we have talked about this, we talked about it on our podcast version of this handoff. the judge in georgia doing the right thing. conducting himself moderation in the right way. and then, you have this judge who is yelling at people. even though the jury didn't see most of that. they still -- they understand what's happening. they get the sense of what's going on. they see, you know, the judge's react -- what the judge is doing, if he is making coffee during closing arguments. little things like that. so, you know, i think it's problematic. this gave us a window into our court system, our justice system. and i think these are examples of what's happening around the country of reform, whether you think it's about race or whatever it is, but just to make it more equitable for all people involved. and not to use people as political weapons or cudgels because you want to promote yourself because you are on a grift. the attorney that represented him that, you know, because -- got the acquittal, he did the right thing and is doing the right thing. the -- right -- and he called their names. i don't have to. and there are others who were involved, as well. those are the people who were problematic in this society. those are the people who are causing the divisions because they are the ambulance chasers and you can have ambulance chasers, as well, in media. >> look. i think that this is a terrible situation and why he is -- while he is not guilty, there is a lot about this situation while he had the right to do it under the law, it wasn't right. it was wrong and it's hurtful, and people are dead and it sends a bad message. >> we shouldn't be celebrating people carrying, you know, assault-style weapons around in the street openly. whether it's kyle rittenhouse or whomever, that's what law enforcement is for. >> i hear you but the law rules. and the law here is the bad guy. >> right. and if you don't like it, then t you have to fight to change it. >> that self-defense law is pitiful and he was allowed to carry that weapon under wisconsin law and that self-defense law in wisconsin makes it easy to kill somebody. >> look at what happened with george zimmerman and the stand your ground. >> stand your ground is a cousin of this law. in fact, i would say this law is even more forgiving than florida's stand your ground because it has other elements to it. it's you don't have a duty to retreat. that's basically stand your ground. you have to, as a juror, not say what would don lemon do? what would a reasonable person do? it's what would that guy do? a 17-year-old that i think is overwhelmed and scared by anything because he is naive. that's who you have to judge it on. very generous standard. and the prosecution has to prove you didn't need self-defense. you didn't act in self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt, which is our highest standard and much higher than the burden presented in many other states. >> yeah. >> it's a very, very easy law. and you saw the results. >> well, we'll see what happens. so far, calm. and it should be. although, you know, people have the right to demonstrate or whatever. but let's hope that it stays this way and people do the right thing. >> i just -- i just hope -- one last thing -- i just hope that the understanding of frustration is not presented as he should have been found guilty because other people would wrongfully have been found guilty under this law and facts and you should say we want this outcome no matter who the defendant is. >> no matter -- no matter who it is. and the same grace that, especially those on the right, or people are giving kyle rittenhouse, that same grace should be granted for george floyd or granted for anyone in a courtroom -- >> george floyd is a no-brainer. he was murdered. >> i'm just saying there are people who said look what he did in his past. he is no saint. so for that, and for people who are proven innocent, right? >> yeah. >> that same grace. regardless of race, background, or ideology. so let's see if they give that same grace to other people when they are found not guilty in a court of law. >> sadly, we will see soon enough because they happen all the time. >> thank you, sir. >> i love you, d lemon. make your witness. >> i love you more. that was a great conversation. i know everyone's ready. get to the show. we got it. this is best conversation we are going to have. this is "don lemon tonight." as we have been saying, the verdict is in. no surprise. not if you were paying attention. >> joseph rosenbaum, we, the jury, find the defendant kyle h. rittenhouse not guilty. as to the second count of the information, richard mcginnis, we the jury find the defendant kyle h. rittenhouse not guilty. as to the third count of the information, unknown male, we, the jury, find the defendant kyle h. rittenhouse not guilty. as to the fourth count of the information, anthony huber, we, the jury, find the defendant kyle h. rittenhouse not guilty. as to the fifth count of the information, gaige grosskreutz, we, the jury, find the defendant kyle h. rittenhouse not guilty. >> members of the jury, are these your unanimous verdicts? is there anyone who does not agree with the verdicts as read? >> lucky, young man. can you imagine that moment? first thing i'd be saying -- thank you, jesus. thank you, god. fall on your knees. lucky. kyle rittenhouse who shot and killed two people, wounded another during protests in august of 2020 over the police shooting of jacob blake, found not guilty on all counts. you heard 'em read right there. the bar was really high for a conviction, though. prosecutors had to prove it wasn't self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. now, you can question what a then-17-year-old, right, where is the wisdom in this? 17-year-old's not that wise, right? usually. just young people. no one. i don't mean just kyle. 17-year-old with a military-style weapon. what they were doing in the middle of chaos. all that chaos in the streets of kenosha. but as we have been saying, this case was never going to be a slam dunk. the assistant da, thomas binger, putting out a statement saying while we are disappointed with the verdict, it must be respected. and then, the defense attorney that chris and i were talking about -- mark richards -- telling chris cuomo, just a few minutes ago, this. >> he didn't want to kill anybody. and he was left with a terrible choice and he exercised that choice, which was found to be lawful. >> wisconsin governor tony evers says that his state has to work to do the right thing in the wake of this verdict and -- or has some work to do in the wake of this verdict, and is calling for peace tonight. so, why don't we get there now? cnn's sara sidner, she is live for us in kenosha. sara, good evening to you. i understand you have some new information. we are hearing from kyle rittenhouse. what is he saying? >> yeah, it's true. he had been doing an interview all along this process with the tucker carlson show, fox news, and here is what he said in one of the clips that has just been released. after the verdict it is read, he is in the car and he says, look, the jury reached the correct verdict. self-defense is not illegal. this has been a rough ride but the worst is over. so, we have now heard from kyle rittenhouse, himself, about what he thinks about the verdict that was handed down. the not guilty on all five counts. um, i should also mention, don, there was something very interesting in the verdict sheets. um, i have them here. there are, of course, five of them. um, and if you look at the sheets, you will notice that the jury made some decisions pretty early on. the second day of deliberations, they decided on two of the cases including anthony huber. they decided not guilty in the shooting and killing of anthony huber by kyle rittenhouse and they decided a not-guilty verdict on putting somebody in danger, the man that was called jump-kick man this second day after deliberations started. and then, they decided something on the third day after deliberations started. um, and they did not get to the joseph rosenbaum decision on whether or not he was killed, first-degree intentional homicide, until today. and so, it is clear to a lot of fo folks looking at this case that it was that particular case where there was drone video that they had requested to see -- um -- that -- that made them deliberate for longer. and they finally got to that decision today, and now we know that kyle rittenhouse is a free man. he has been found not guilty on all five charges. >> sara sidner has been covering. sara, thank you very much. we appreciate that and we have got a lot more thon and it comes as some people are saying that we have two justice systems here in america. look. i understand, you know, what they mean by that. what they are trying to say but the fact is we actually have one justice system. unfortunately, that justice system is not always fair. we should respect the jury's verdict in kenosha. as americans, we have the right to disagree and we have the right to make the system work for everybody. right to change -- change the laws because the laws that are in place -- those are the -- those are the reasons -- the main reasons that kyle rittenhouse was acquitted. it is hard to separate race out of all of these things. but race is there. it may not be exactly the same in every case. it's a difference of degrees, right? but it's always there in all of these cases. they're not the exact same thing but it is there. the rittenhouse trial was also about whether or not the prosecution was able to prove its case. the jury found him not guilty. but in a courtroom in georgia, a very different case is unfolding of the defense attorneys in the three white men accused of chasing down and killing ahmaud arbery are expected to begin closing arguments on monday. then, the case goes to nearly -- a nearly all white jury. kind of similar, right? but today, the attorney for one of the men compared a prayer rally outside the white house to -- and i am quoting here -- a public lynching. >> this is why a public lynching looks like in the 21st century. just because they haven't put a gallery up -- they haven't put a podium up outside with a hangman's noose on it doesn't mean that this isn't a trial despite the best efforts of this court -- this isn't a trial that's been infected by mob violence of a woke-left mob. >> i caagain, the politics. that's why you got to be careful when you embrace that whole, like, you know, woke is going too far because those -- people who co-opt that are doing it for a reason. don't fall for the okeydoke. a public lynching, right? especially, considering what happened to ahmaud arbery. that man's client -- his client was not the one who was chased down and shot to death in broad daylight. and it's disgraceful for him to compare a prayer vigil to a lynching. i think we can all see what's going on here. this is the attorney who said i am -- and i am quoting here, again -- we don't want any more black pastors coming in here. ahmaud arbery's mother reacting today. >> ms. cooper, is there anything you want to say -- >> i think it's ridiculous. he -- he's done things repeatedly that just surprise me that he would say. so very surprising but not unexpected. >> we are covering all of it. kyle rittenhouse, acquitted. the jury deliberated for more than 25 hours. but was testimony from kyle rittenhouse attorney -- in the trial? now subaru is the largest automotive donor to make-a-wish and meals on wheels. and the largest corporate donor to the aspca and national park foundation. get a new subaru during the share the love event and subaru will donate two hundred and fifty dollars to charity. with framebridge... make what matters to you last. halloween, '72. jojo's adoption day. asher's art phase. whatever you treasure, make it last. framebridge. ordinary tissues burn when theo blows. so dad bought puffs plus lotion, and rescued his nose. with up to 50% more lotion puffs bring soothing softness and relief. a nose in need deserves puffs indeed. ok, let's talk about those changes to your financial plan. bill, mary? hey... it's our former broker carl. carl, say hi to nina, our schwab financial consultant. hm... i know how difficult these calls can be. not with schwab. nina made it easier to set up our financial plan. we can check in on it anytime. it changes when our goals change. planning can't be that easy. actually, it can be, carl. look forward to planning with schwab. schwab! ♪ constipated? set yourself free with fleet. gentle constipation relief in minutes. little fleet. big relief. try it. feel it. feel that fleet feeling. kyle rittenhouse acquitted of all charges after he shot and killed two men and injured a third during a night of unrest in wisconsin after the police shooting of jacob blake. the jury deliberated for more than 25 hours over four days. the family of those speaking out tonight. anthony huber's parents, they say they are heartbroken by the verdict. joining me now, the former district attorney for waukesha county, wisconsin. and the jury and trial consultant. gentlemen, good evening to you. so, paul, i am going to start with you because you -- everyone says you have been saying this, the prosecution had a very high bar. um, and -- it -- you had said that you believed that there would be -- he would be found guilty on one count you said -- that did not happen. >> i owe you a cup of coffee or a beer. i thought there would be a reckless homicide. i thought it would either be first or second degree -- probably second. and i believed it would be probably -- although i didn't say that at the time -- would probably be on mr. rosenbaum. and it looks like i came close but not close enough. but hey, look. it's a complicated case. it's -- it's -- the case spun out of control, don. and it began spinning out of control a long time ago and the verdict's a verdict. it is what it is. the jury worked hard. i give the jury a lot of respect. they weren't swayed by sympathy or fear and they decided this case based solely on the law and the facts, not some baked up racial second amendment and i respect robert's view on this -- view. or that this is a white supremacist. he's not a hero. he is not a white supremacist. he is not a racial racist -- i meant racist, not racial racist -- it was based on the law and the facts and the facts were not on the government's side. >> yeah. listen. i gagree with that. to say it's not racial or racist. and look, i'm not -- race is a part of this case. that is undeniable. it may -- for people to say it's not part of this case -- that may make some liberals feel -- you know, give them some comfort, right? especially, white liberals but it is. make them feel better about what is happening in our society but it's not true. race is definitely a part of this. robert, you said from the very beginning that this case was all about guns. is that what the jury decided on? >> yes, sir. and let me tell you why. i have identified five things, don -- by the way, thank you for having me on, i really appreciate it -- five things that occurred in this trial that i think really worked to the defendant's advantage. number one, the video of the event. number two, the fact that right after he did the shooting, he told the police. number three, his age. number four, the -- we saw today the might of the right. he had a really well-funded defense. they did mock trials. they did research on these jurors. so the right really came to his aid. and finally, the law. if anything, don, the law is what saved this young man from going to prison for the rest of his life. >> i completely, um, agree with that. listen. it's -- it was mostly about the law. when i said race is a part of it, i didn't mean it's the whole thing. i think everyone understands what i am saying. listen. prosecutors tried to make this, robert, this case about an active shooter. arguing that it was everybody else who responded to rittenhouse was acting in self-defense. now, why do you think that proved to be unconvincing to the jury? >> yeah. it -- it's the chaos, don. okay? it was a really chaotic situation. what the jury was told is that they have to put themselves not in the shoes of a reasonable person but in -- into defendant rittenhouse's shoes, right? and you have got all this chaos that's being videotaped and the problem is that at the time, don, people didn't know if he was an active shooter or if he was trying to help. and people, because of all the events that have happened in our country, you know, i think they assumed the worst and they were trying to stop him. and he -- his view or reaction to that was he was being threat u threatened. he was having to defend his life. the thing is what we are seeing, don, with these kind of events, i am really worried that the united states of america is really starting to turn into, um, that we're the divided states of america. we're better than that. we got to work together, folks from both sides. we got to work together so things like this don't keep happening. >> paul, kyle rittenhouse's defense attorney spoke with chris a short while ago. watch this, please. >> kyle said if i had to do it all over again and had any idea something like this could happen, i wouldn't do it. you know? and that is not -- i want to be clear -- that is not regret for what he did that night under those circumstances. hindsight is always 2020/20, if not better. and he -- he didn't want to kill anybody. and he was left with a terrible choice and he exercised that choice, which was found to be lawful. >> paul, what do you think? what do you think he is -- what he is saying there, he didn't want to kill anybody but ultimately he was left with a terrible choice. >> yes, i agree with that. and i know attorney richards. he is a straight shooter. he is a go-to guy in that area of the state. i totally disagree with my respective colleague. this is about the facts in this case and if anybody -- and i have been asked this a hundred times -- what message is sent out as a result of this case? the message is not that kyle rittenhouse is a hero. he's not. he's not a vigilante. he is -- he's not a white supremacist. this is not the message that, hey, in kenosha, they said it was okay to go to a civil uprising and arm yourself. no, because if that's what you want to do, if you go there looking for trouble and i don't think there is any evidence that rittenhouse did -- he found trouble, yes. but if you -- that's what you want to do, i'm available 24 hours a day, seven days a week. you can give me a call because you are going to have a problem. you can't replicate the unique facts in this case to another situation. this was a case where the government failed to prove the lack of self-defense. the government had several missteps. i don't know which one was fatal to their case. but clearly, the jury, based on what i have heard, found self-defense almost immediately. and just began looking at, especially the last count, apparently there was one woman on the jury that wanted to have a little bit more time to think about the last count. but this is not a white supremacist. this is not vigilanteism. this is not about you got a right to carry a gun in public at a civil uprising. that's just none sense. so i have listened to all the talking heads, including myself. >> i'm glad you put yourself in the category. but go on. >> i do. i do. and with all due respect to robert, he is very experienced, very good. well-funded defense. no doubt about it. nobody -- nobody that i know ever has done mock trials with criminal cases. that's reserved for civil. even jury consultants -- very rare, don, in -- >> not true. >> okay. we got -- robert, i am going to give you the last word. i have to run, quickly, please. as quick as you can. >> real quickment look. everybody -- we got to respect this jury. they worked hard. they had 25 hours invested in this. they did a really good job. if you get a summons for jury duty, don't try to get out of it. go down, serve your country, and serve on a jury. that's how we can help start making some change in our country. >> all right. robert, paulings thank you, gentlemen. appreciate it. >> thank you, don. >> thanks. a huge win for president biden. democrats actually coming together to pass his $1.9 trillion plan. stay with us. the experts at safelite autoglass came right to me... with service i could trust. right, girl? >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ get help managing your money for the life -- and years -- ahead. with fidelity income planning, we'll look at what you've saved, what you'll need, and build a straightforward plan to generate income, even when you're not working. a plan that gives you the chance to grow your savings and create cash flow that lasts. along the way, we'll give you ways to be tax efficient. and you can start, stop or adjust your plan at any time without the unnecessary fees. we'll help you go from saving... to living. ♪ play all day ♪ moving is a handful. no kidding! fortunately, xfinity makes moving easy. easy? -easy? switch your xfinity services to your new address online in about a minute. that was easy. i know, right? and even save with special offers just for movers. really? yep! so while you handle that, you can keep your internet and all those shows you love, and save money while you're at it with special offers just for movers at xfinity.com/moving. a big step forward for president biden's agenda today. house democrats passing the president's expansive $1.9 trillion economic and climate agenda following months of hard-fought negotiations. it includes more money for childcare, home healthcare, obamacare subsidies, universal pre-k, and more. but it's anyone's guess what will happen when the senate has its say. so joining me now to discuss, cnn political commentator and former republican congressman charlie dent. and cnn senior political analyst, kirsten powers. she is the author of the new, amazing book called "saving grace." so, welcome to both of you. kirsten, after months of wrangling, democrats are on to the next step with a bill that would transform people's lives. there is still a ways to go, as i pointed out. but we saw democrats celebrating on the house floor after it passed. is this a moment for the party to be excited? >> yeah. i think it is. and let's remember that there are many people who were claiming this was never going to happen. that the democrats were never going to be able to get this done. that it was dead. and it's true, it's not finished yet. but i think that this has involved a lot of wrangling, particularly by, you know, nancy pelosi and -- and joe biden. and so, now it goes to the senate. and we see what happens. we see if they can convince joe manchin to get onboard or if it's going to end up having to have some things stripped out of it and then sent back to the house and then more wrangling. but, you know, it's a step forward and i think it is a transformative piece of legislation if it can, you know, ultimately be made into law. >> yeah. so, charlie, basically, what -- what kirsten is saying, it's a tough road ahead in the senate for this bill. i mean, we could be looking at a very different bill after joe manchin has his say. um, where do you think this ends up, sir? >> well, i -- i think this bill has a long road ahead of it. and i would be shocked if this bill became law before christmas. and i'll be very honest with you, don. you know, we just got the cbo report yesterday. and there are a lot of gimmicks and -- and tricks involved here. i think they have been very deceptive with the numbers here. frankly, they have been dishonest. this is going to cost somewhere between 4.6 to $4.9 trillion according to pen wharton and the committee responsible for budget because they don't make a lot of the unrealistic assumptions that the cbo is forced to make. i mean, they are using temporary provisions here like the child tax credit, they say it's going to cost $110 billion no it will cost -- faes only score the add 110 because they are only authorizing it for a year. so there are a lot of games here they are playing. if somebody believes this is not going to somehow add to the deficit, you will believe anything. and they are not voting on this thing in isolation or a vacuum. they are voting on this on top of $6 trillion in covid spending, on top of inflationary pressures, shortages, border mayhem, afghanistan fiasco. so there is a lot going on here. i think they are premature to celebrate anything here. hey, at least they didn't spike the football like republicans did on healthcare when they had a rose garden celebration after a bill passed the house that was deeply flawed. so i think it is a long road ahead. i want to see what joe manchin has to say about this cbo score because i think it's phony. >> well, listen. and we had austin goulsby on last night who explained the financials of this. and i am just wondering, charlie, before i get back to kirsten, does it -- how much does it matter that -- covid and that we are coming -- we are going through -- living through and coming out of a very, very rough period, um, you know, for this country health-wise, medically and economically? >> yeah, i think, look. i think the american public realizes we needed to spend most of that $6 trillion. i would argue they spent $800 billion too much on it but we needed most of the $6 trillion. and i think many folks believe now is the time to pump the brakes and show some restraint. i have always felt that joe biden was elected to bring about greater stability and normalcy to the funkction of government, not to transform the government. that's what bernie sanders ran on and he lost. >> and look, i am not going to get into a rowwith you because that's what you are. you are a small-government conservative. and um, that's where we -- that's where we used to be. we're not there anymore. so, listen, i am not going to take any guff with what you are saying of the kirsten, you know, it -- manchin and sinema, if they strip this bill down and send a version back to the house that progressives won't support, what kind of headaches do you think it's going to create for democrats? >> i -- well, it's going to -- i mean, it's going to create headaches because it's been, obviously, already creating headaches because we can't -- you can't get agreement on this bill. and so, i think that one of the problems is that the things that joe manchin, in particular, who i think is the bigger problem frankly at this point is opposed to is -- is something that's very mainstream, which is paid leave and that 's one of the th things he opposes and i think is very central to this bill. so we just have this kind of back and forth andset at some point, i think there is going to have to be a decision made that there is going to have to be some compromises and move on. i don't know if the progressives are willing to do that and i don't frankly think it should be on them but it seems joe manchin is willing to be the one person who holds everything up and never mind the rest of the democrats are all in agreement about this. but for some reason, this one person is, you know, supposed to be able to bend everyone to the will to the way he thinks the world is supposed to be. >> you know what i have to say, you know, listening to both of you and having this conversation. isn't it refreshing actually to have a conversation about policy? >> it is. >> what politicians are doing, rather than some crazy tweet or -- do you know what i am saying? that's why i said i can't take issue with anything you said, charlie. and, you know, kirsten was just like, yeah, because this is -- this is how it's done. you are a small-government conservative. that's what i think the party has been, you know, built on. but it's not necessarily where it is right now. so i respect you for that and i respect your views, as well. and it's great to have these conversations. so both of you, thank you and i will see ya. >> i agree. >> see ya later. so he complains about black pastors' presence in the courtroom and today, defense attorney kevin goff is calling pastors rallying outside the courtroom to support arbery's mother a quote lynching. cornel west has thoughts about that. he is next. sooner?" and so she'll get some advice from fidelity, and fidelity will help her explore some different scenarios, like saving more every month. ♪ and that has carla feeling so confident that she can enjoy her dream... right now. that's the planning effect, from fidelity. 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>> you got it right in new york city, blessed harlem. >> it's good to see you in person. we've been talking to each other over satellite. professor, it was the same defense attorney who complained about black pastors being in the courtroom now comparing a prayer rally outside the courthouse to a public lynching. what do you make of that? >> well, you know, my dear brother, it's just another sign of the profound spiritual decay and pervasive moral decadence that's at work in our culture and society. you see, once you have organized hatred, institutionalized greed, and then you add fear and distrust, things get out of control, spiritually, morally, with the big money behind the scene. that's what's happening now, brother. things are getting out of control, man. we are going to lose american democracy fairly soon if this spiritual decay and moral decrepe tud continues to prevail. i'm telling you. >> you believe that? >> no doubt about it. we are on the edge, believe me you. and neofascism is just waiting because that's what fascism is all about. let the greed and hatred expand. let folk turn on each other. the well to do kind of sit back there and they spectators because they're still doing very well. we're talking about working and poor people going at each other for the most part, you see. and if we don't have countervailing forces and voices in the face of the hatred, it's got to be love and justice, and in the face of greed, it's got to be accountability. and every society has to deal with hatred, greed, and if you don't have mechanisms of accountability and responsibility, it gets out of hand. >> in virginia, white nationalists are on trial for organizing the deadly rally in charlottesville that we covered so much, and saying it out loud. yep, i'm a racist. this is a quote. yep, i'm a racist. it seems we're living in another era right now. >> you saw what they said. lynch him. right there on the video. i said, ooh, very interesting indeed. we sitting there singing "this little light of mine," and they've got guns and masks and so forth. you say, that's all you can come up with? do you realize how empty, how joyless, how vacuous your soul must be? here i am a revolutionary christian. i believe jesus loves everybody. jesus loves these gangsters but they choose to be gangsters, and we're going to make them accountable. you know why? because black people are precious. because everyday people are precious. joseph rosenbaum, precious, anthony huber, precious. arbery, precious. some of us are going to go down fighting in the name of love and justice even as society continually slides down a slope towards fascism. >> what do you mean by that? >> someone is going to have to pay the ultimate price. >> some is saying that's a threat of violence? >> we are willing to pay the ultimate price because the people that came before paid the price and we are going to let oppressed people know we're in solidarity with them no matter what the cost. that's the crucial point. >> i want to ask you, do you have any concerns about the makeup of the jury? one black juror in the -- >> they looked good because keep in mind, jim crow, jim crow jr., jim crow iii. white supremacy takes a lot of different forms, a lot of different iterations, and it doesn't look good, but we'll have to see. most importantly, we need folk in this country to get spiritually fortified to fight in the name of love and justice. >> all of these trials that we have, can you separate race out of them? >> no. no, no, not at all. it may not be the dominant factor in every one, but the legacy of white supremacy, my brother, takes a variety of different forms. >> thank you. >> absolutely. >> appreciate that. good to see you. >> always a blessing. i know we shouldn't be shaking hands, but that's all right. >> no. we're good. i got the hand sanitizer right here. >> i got the holy ghost protecting me, brother. >> you're in a vaccinated area building. we're all good. thank you very much. vice president kamala harris holding presidential powers, and she is -- take this -- the first woman to ever do so. ♪ ♪ will there be an ev for me? what about me? one for me? you mean us? what about me? and me? how about us? yeah, how about us? great question. wait, can i get one in green? got one for me?! what about us? is there an ev for me? ev for me? us? what about me? me? introducing the ultium ev platform by general motors. everybody in. 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