>> yes. >> okay. but at this moment in time, this is before the shootings. >> yes. >>. this is before you crossed 60th, before you deal with rosenbaum, huber, grosskreutz, all that. >> yes. >> so at this moment in time, you don't think there's a hostile crowd, you're there to help people and yet you're going to run out there with the ar-15. i don't understand why you felt you were going to be in danger, if you're out in what you think is a friendly crowd, helping them? >> i didn't say i didn't think they were hostile. i didn't think they were hostile towards us. >> okay. so they're not hostile to you and you're going to go help them. why do you need the gun when you go out there? >> i needed the gun because if i had to protect myself because somebody attacked me. >> why would you think anybody would do that? >> i don't know. >> but you clearly planned on it. you were prepared for it. you thought it was going to happen? >> no, i didn't. >> that's the whole reason you brought the gun, isn't it? >> i brought the gun to protect myself. >> exactly. because you thought, you personally were going to be in danger, right? >> not necessarily. >> i don't understand. you said you're going to bring the gun to protect yourself, so you thought you were going to be in danger, right? >> i didn't think i would be put into a situation to where i would have to defend myself. >> you said that the people around you on that property and the people up on the roof were there to protect you. that's what you said in the video, right? >> yes. >> you meant when you go out in the crowd, they're going to protect you, right? >>. >> watch over and protect you, right? >> yes. >> again, because you expected that if you go out in that crowd to try and provide medical service, you thought you were going to get attacked? >> they were to watch me -- they were on the roof to watch me and if somebody was to attack me in their view, they could say, hey, kyle, watch out. >> they've got ar-15s. >> yes. >> we talked earlier about the fact that the ar-15, you can't use deadly force to protect the building, right? >> correct. >> the ar-15 was to protect you, right? that's what you just said. >> not the ar-15. i said they could shout down to me and be like, hey, kyle, watch out. >> so they're just carrying around the ar-15s for no reason. >> i don't know why they're carrying around the ar-15s. >> can we play exhibit -- this is the end -- at the end of this video is where you invite mr. mcginniss to follow you and ryan balch, right? >> yes. >> and you invited him ento do that because you wanted him to film you while you were out in the crowd doing your thing. fair? >> yeah, i said it was okay for him to film me. let's play exhibit 17, please. >> see like a pack. >> i was trying to protect. >> mcginniss just asked you, so you're a certified emt, and you said yes correct? >> yes. >> that was a lie, correct? >> i'm not an emt. >> you're not a certified emt, you're not an emt of any kind, you weren't on that night, correct? >> yes. >> so you lied to him, correct? >> i told him i was an emt, but i wasn't. >> and you knew you were being interviewed by someone in the media when you told that lie, didn't you? >> yes. >> please continue. >> and do you work as an emt normally? >>. [ inaudible ] >> they went in that vehicle down the roadway. >> can we back up 10 seconds, please: and then just pause right there. we just heard a voice say something to you and mr. balch about people throwing rocks, something along those lines. i don't need to know exactly what they did. did you hear that voice? >> the police officer from the bear cat, yes. >> that's what i was going to ask. that's one of the law enforcement officers in that armored vehicle that you're walking past, correct? >> yes. >> and this, what we're watching in this video happens a few minutes after those same bear cats had come to the 59th street property and handed you some bottles of water, correct? >> yes. >> and they say to you something to the effect of we appreciate you guys. do you remember that? i do. >> that's when you were on the 59th street property, and you were acting like you were guarding that property, correct? >> yes. so how does it make you feel when the police are letting you cross the lines, people throwing rocks, handing out bottles of water, they're telling you they appreciate you, how did that make you feel? >> i didn't care, i was thankful for the water because i had oc gas in my eyes, but i didn't really notice or care. >> it didn't make you feel like they approvapproved of what you doing? >> no. >> it didn't make you feel like you're emboldened now to act on their behalf? >> no. >> let's play the video here , please. >> you yelled something friendly, friendly, i'm not sure how many times, but you yelled friendly out. >> yes. >> this is if i can use the pointer, you are crossing on the west side of sheridan road. you are crossing south across 60th street, heading across the police line which had barricaded across 60th and sheridan, fair? >> yes. >> you understood at this moment that you are now entering a crowd of whatever you want to call them, protesters, demonstrator, your attorneys called them rioters or looters, or whatever. that's who you're going to now be part of. you're going to be in that crowd, right? >> i was walking through. i announced myself as friendly, and that i was there to help them. >> because you had to do that to warn these people that, hey, i'm on your side, right? >> i told them that i was friendly. >> because if you didn't say that, you were worried they would see you as hostile, correct? >> can you reask your question. i'm trying to understand. >> absolutely. if you're going to go up to dominic black or ryan balch, you don't need to tell them you're friendly because they know you're friends, we don't tell this to our friends. >> yeah. >> we say friendly to people that raren't our friends, peopl that might be hostile to us. >> i said it because they were throwing rocks at me, and when i told them i was friendly, they stopped throwing rocks. >> they were throwing at the bear cats, not at you. >> yeah. >> one of them hit one of the armored vehicles and bounced off towards you and mr. balch, right? >> yeah. >> it didn't do any damage to the armored vehicle, did it. >> not that i'm aware of. >> can you imagine trying to harm an armored vehicle with a rock, that's pretty hard to do, right? >> yeah. >> but no one was throwing rocks at you, but you were kind of in the ricochet line of fire, is that fair to say? >> yeah. so you wanted to let these people know that, hey, i might look like i'm the other side, but i'm really friendly. fair? >> i wasn't on any side, but -- >> i didn't say that, i said that you might appear to them. i mean, that was what you were worried about, right, when you said friendly, and i notice you looking over at your attorney a lot. i'm trying to ask you. >> i would object to that. he's looking directly at mr. binger, and i'm behind him. he accused mr. rittenhouse of looking at his attorney, does he want him to look at the ceiling? >> i'll continue, your honor. >> go ahead. >> you at this very moment announced yourself as friendly because you were worried that the people on the other side of that street would see you as hostile, fair? >> i can't tell you how i think they would see me but i told them i was friendly. >> i was asking you what you thought when you said this. you said you announced yourself as friendly because you thought to yourself at that very moment, i'm walking into a group that is hostile to me, isn't that true? >> it looks hostile, they were throwing rocks at the armored police cars. >> and you felt it was necessary to tell them friendly friendly friendly so they wouldn't do anything to you, fair? >> yes. >> let's konts the video. >> there's a person that comes up to you carrying a skate board, do you see that? >> i do. >> and he's got fire extinguisher slung over his shoulder? >> yes. >> and he says something about putting out fires, and he said, they know, they know. did i understand you correctly? >> that's what i heard but i don't remember that interact very well other than helping the guy after with the shoulder. >> and that's going to come up in a second here, but when you're talking to this individual about the fire extinguishers, do you remember anything about that conversation? >> it's hard to recall but i think it was about fires that they were putting out fires. >> okay. >> and when you said they know, they know, who's they? >> i don't recall. >> do you have any idea what you were talking about? >> i don't. >> it seems to me, mr. rittenhouse, that this person is suggesting he's going to go put out some fires, and you're sort of assuring him that you don't need to. it's okay. would that be a fair interpretation or no? >> no! but you don't remember what was going on. >> i don't remember what the conversation was about other than fires and i don't recall it. >> this is one of the guys in the group that you later got your fire extinguisher from, right? >> no. >> okay. we'll get to that in a second. let's continue. >> brian, can you continue, please? >> you good? >>. [ inaudible ] it just -- >> never hurt nobody. slow and spicy, that's all. >> salsa. someone's got some medical weed, i'll tell you that. >> does anybody need medical? >> you're walking around asking people in this crowd if they need medical. and you talked earlier about treating a couple, somebody at the 59th streetcar source, right? >> minor injuries. >> minor injuries. when you were walking around outside that property, when you're out in the street announcing what you're announcing, did anybody respond and say, yeah, i need help from you? >> yes. >> when was that? >> i don't recall an exact time, but somebody cut their finger opio open and i gave them some gauze and bandage tape. >> was that before or after this, do you remember? >> before. >> where physically did that happen? >> i don't recall. >> and was this a situation where you announced or, you know, yelled out that you could help, and somebody said, yeah, i need some help. is that what went on in that situation? >> yes. >> as you're walking along here from this point until the end, until you shoot rosenbaum and huber and grosskreutz, no one says i do need medical, come over and help me. correct? >> yes. >> that's correct? >> yes. >> let's continue. >> this is the individual who accuses you of pointing your gun at them, right? >> yes. >> and he says that you did so when he was on a vehicle, right? >> yes. >> and in fact, he had been at the 59th streetcar source location climbing on, sitting on, jumping on one of the vehicles in that lot, hadn't he? >> not that i'm aware of. i know i heard joann feedler testify to that, but i don't remember seeing him at that location. >> but he accuses you of that here? >> he does. >> and you tell him basically, yeah, i did point the gun at you, right? >> i shrugged it off and said, yeah, i did, sarcastically, meaning i didn't, i didn't want a confrontation, i was like, i did, and walked away. >> why did you lie to him? >> i didn't lie to him, i was using sarcasm. >> the words you said, yeah, i did, those weren't true, were they? >> your honor, this is ridiculous, we're now fighting over sarcasm, this is a murder trial. >> he says it's a lie. go ahead. >> when you told that individual, yeah, i did point a gun at you, that wasn't true, was it? >> i didn't point a gun at him. >> so why did you react to him in that way in that particular moment? >> i thought that would be the best way to avoid conflict. i just said, i did, satellite and radar -- sarcastically i don't know what you're talking about. >> what conflict are you trying to avoid? >> any conflict. he was accusing me of something i didn't do, so i thought the best thing would be -- the best thing to do would be to walk away instead of getting into some argument. so. >> but you didn't just walk away. you said to him sarcastically, yeah, i did. >> i said sarcastically i did, and walked away. >> because you were worried about a conflict. what conflict were you worried about? >> a verbal argument. >> this individual is clearly expressing to you that he's unhappy because he thought you pointed your gun at him, correct? >> yes. >> and you can understand why someone would be upset when you point an ar-15 at them, correct? >> yes. >> you knew that even before this, right? >> yes. >> in fact, back at the 59th streetcar source, that crowd that you've described as not being -- not having any friction, many in that crowd got upset because they thought people in your group were pointing their laser pointers at them. do you remember that? >> i saw it in the videos, but i don't know what other people were doing. >> i'm not saying anybody actually was. i'm saying the crowd was upset, and you knew that. you've heard them complaining, correct. >> wampgtching the videos, yes. >> even at that time, that night, you heard the crowd upset because they thought members of your group were pointing their laser pointers at them. do you remember that from that night? >> sort of, yes or no, i remember ryan saying something like, telling people to stop pointing their lasers or something. i don't really remember that. >> ryan balch was telling the people in your group to stop doing that. >> the people on the roof. >> that were part of your group? >> that were there, yes. >> so you know when we're talking about laser pointers, we're talking about the sight at the end of some guns like this, right, if somebody does this at me, you know, that could be someone pointing a gun, correct? >> it could be seen as that. >> and that's what the crowd was complaining about, right? >> yeah. >> so you knew from that crowd incident and you certainly knew from this incident that when people have guns pointed at them, it can really escalate the situation, correct? >> yeah, i don't think anybody had lasers on their guns, i think -- >> yeah, but let's go back to your group at 59th street, because you actually didn't know those people other than dominic, and nick smith. you had just met ryan balch for the first time three or four hours before this video, right? >> yeah. >> you had just met jason lackowski for the first just actually only a few minutes before this, right, because he didn't get in until 10:45. >> correct. >> so at this point in the video, this is probably about 11:30 or so at night? >> i met him about 35 minutes prior to that. >>. and promptly spent, what, 10, 15 minutes at all in the same location as jason lackowski before you walk south? >> yes. >> so again, jason lackowski was someone you had never met before that night. >> correct. >> and you barely spent any time with him that night. >> correct. >> and of course the people up on the roof, other than dominic black, and nick smith, you didn't know any of them before that night either, correct? >> i knew dominic black and nick smith. >> dominic black and nick smith. >> those are the two people i know on the roof. >> other than that, you didn't know anyone else before this night, fair? >> correct. >>. >> when this interaction happens, you're still walking with ryan balch, aren't you? >> i'm not, i thought i was at the time, but seeing hindsight view, i'm not. >> when you decided to cross 60th with ryan balch, you talked about the fact if you get separated to go back to the 59th streetcar source, right? >> i don't recall that conversation happening? >> but you tried to do that, didn't you? >> i did. >> because you felt like if i'm out here by myself, that's not good. i need to head back, right? >> yes. >> and you also talked to ryan balch about the fact when you get out into this crowd, keep your mouth shot. don't antagonize them. didn't ryan talk to you about that. >> we didn't talk about that. >> at this very moment, you're telling us you've lost trackover r -- track of ryan balch. >> a little bit ahead, but yes. >> let's continue the video. you have just walked off the screen heading east across sheridan road to the ultimate gas station, correct? >> yes. >> and at that point in time, you don't know where ryan balch is correct? >> when i stopped and looked around, yes. >> and inside of deciding to head back at this point, you go over to ultimate gas and you talk to some folks over there, fair. >> i walk over to the ultimate gas station, and i walk around and i try to see if i can find mr. balch. >> and you couldn't do that? >> no. >> so then you decided to approach the police line and cross back, correct? >> yes. >> because you decided your best course of action at that point would be to return to the same group that you'd been with, correct? >> yes. >> now, at that moment in time, the police had pushed everybody south of 60th, right? >> sort of. i don't really know. >> did you say south. >> i said south of 60th. let's go back a little bit. we watched that interview with ritchie mcginniss, where he first comes up to you and talks to you, right? >> mm-hmm. >> do you remember that? >> yes. >> and you're standing there at the 59th street property, aren't you? sgl >> i am. >> and he talks about what you're going to do, and you're going to run out and help people, things like that, right? >> yes. >> at that point the police had passed with all the bear cats, and m rats, and armored vehicles, right? >> it's what it looked like, yes. >> and they had established a line on 60th and sheridan, right? >> yes. >> and they pushed all of the protesters, demonstrators, rioters, whatever you want to call them, all of them south of 60th, correct? >> i don't know if i can honestly answer all of them. i believe there were some people still north down sheridan, and across the street. >> so were there -- i mean, we saw a crowd earlier of lots of protesters out in the street. that group, the numbers had dwindled quite a bit? >> yes. >> so after the police move everybody south of 60th, there's no more actual threat to the 59th streetcar source, is there? >> i don't know. >> well, at that moment in time, what imminent threats did you see to the 59th streetcar source property? >> i don't know. >> do you remember seeing any protesters out in the street in front of the 59th streetcar source after the police pushed everybody south of 60th. >> i believe there were some across the street, but not many, i can't recall complete. >> and that was just two or three people, right? >> i don't know how many people. >> none of those people came across the street to the 59th streetcar source, did they? >> i don't know. if they did, i would have walked off by now. >> so you didn't see them come acrosse across the street? >> r i did not. >> fair to say after the police pushed everybody south of 60th, you never saw any people threatening that property, correct? >> i didn't see anybody. >> and your goal that night, you took it upon yourself to protect the 59th street property, correct? >> the owners asked. >> sure. >> but you were going to station yourself at that property to try and protect it from damage, fair? >> the car source locations, yes. >> and once the police had pushed everybody south of that, there was no more danger. >> at that car source location, yes. >> so why not go home at that point? >> because the police were pushing people back up, and i was helping people provide medical first aid. >> so the police had established the line at 60th with their bear cats at that point, right? >> yes. >> and there was no indication that they were going to reverse and back up and move back north again, that you saw, correct? >> no, they did it earlier in the night where they did the same thing? >> right. but this is at 11:30, 11:40, and the police have established that line, and as far as you can tell it's going to stay there, right? >> i don't know. >> and you talked about trying to provide medical help but there's no one around that needs medical help at the 59th street car source at that point is there. >> you don't have any purpose there anymore, do you? >> other than -- >> so why not go home? >> because i was going to help people with -- provide first aid and medical assistance. >> but that wasn't the reason you were there that night. you were there that night to protect the 59th street car source. >> it was one of the reasons i was there. part of my reasonso of being there was to protect the car source properties, and provide first aid and medical assistance. >> so you went out in the crowd like we see in this video looking for anyone who needed your help. >> if somebody asked -- if somebody said they need help, i would have helped them. >> so why go with ryan balch? >> because you're safer and better in pairs when there's somebody else that's also with you. >> so when you crossed 60th, you were worried about your safety. >> a little bit. >> even though you think this is not a hostile crowd, and you're there to help them, you were still worried about your safety? that's why you needed balch to back you up, right? >> i said i didn't think they were hostile towards me. i didn't say that they weren't a hostile crowd. >> so let me rephrase my question to take that into account. >> you didn't think this was a crowd that was hostile to you personally, and you thought you were going to help them, but yet you also felt you needed a back up, a former army infantryman to protect you, fair? >> yes. >> and yet when he's gone, and you can't find him, you don't immediately go back, right? >> i look for him for a second, and then i think max i looked for him for like three minutes, and then i tried to go back. >> and when you couldn't get back straight across the police lines, did you decide to try and go around the police lines? for example, the ultimate gas station is here at 60th and sheridan, why didn't you walk down the street here and go over this way, and around? >> i don't know. >> why didn't you go west over this way and go around? >> i don't know. i guess i -- it was very close in time that i was heading back, that i was turned on by the police before i got the phone call from dominic black. so i guess i didn't have time to really think, like, which ways i can go around. >> you knew the layout of downtown kenosha because you said you drove that area all the time, right? >> a little bit. >> okay. so you go over to the ultimate gas station, and you spend some time talking with folks that are there who are similarly dressed as you. they've got similar clothing, similar weapon, things like that, right? >> similar weapons, i wouldn't say similarly dressed. >> but you went over there because you felt that those were people doing something similar to what you were doing that night? fair? >> i thought that would be the safest spot to go. >> why did you think you would be safest with those people? >> because i was alone, and they were, like i said, you're better in pairs. i didn't want to be alone in that situation. >> you didn't want to be alone out here with this crowd that we see on the screen right now, right? >> i did not want to be alone with them. >> you wanted to be with the group at ultimate gas that had ar-15s like you, right? >> i wanted to be back at the car source where there weren't people around. >> right. and we've talked about that, but initially, you go to ultimate gas. >> to look for ryan, yes. >> but you also talk to people who have ar-15s just like you, right? >> i wouldn't say i talked to them. after the phone call, i asked a guy for a fire extinguisher and to come with me. >> let's play exhibit number 11 at the 54 minute and 320-second mark. this is the corey elijah live stream when he's in the ultimate ga s lot. mr. rittenhouse, that's ryan balch standing there in the ultimate gas lot, correct? >> yes. >> let's play this video . >>. [ inaudible ] look down there. >> we just saw you run through this video, correct? >> yes. >> i started this video at the 54-minute and 30 second mark. it is now paused at the 54 minute and 56 second mark. so for 26 seconds, corey elijah has ryan balch on screen center of this video during that entire time, right? >> yes. >> and you run right past where corey elijah is standing rirkt, right. >> and ryan balch is loitering in the middle of the screen for 26 seconds, right? >> it's what it looks like on the screen. >> and your testimony is you were trying your best to find ryan balch at the ultimate gas station at this point because you needed him to protect you? >> i was looking for ryan balch but i didn't notice him as i was running away, not running away, running towards car source 3. >> but for 26 seconds before you start running, he's standing right there, isn't he? >> yes, and i -- when he's standing right there before i run with the fire extinguisher, i'm over here on the phone with dominic black. >> how long was your phone call with dominic black? >> about 30 seconds. >> okay. so before that you had been looking for ryan balch? >> before that i tried to get back to the car source lot number 1. >> and you had also been looking for ryan balch? >> looking, yes, seeing if i could see him in the crowd of people. >> because you wanted a partner, a buddy to protect you? >> to protect each other, yes. >> and in fact, when you borrowed that fire extinguisher, you asked someone in that group to come along with you, right? >> yes. >> because you wanted someone there to protect you when you go down and put out what you think are some fires, right? >> yes. >> because you know that you're running into a crowd that is not friendly to you, right? >> no. >> that's why you had to say the word friendly friendly friendly because you knew this was a crowd that would not see you as friendly, correct? >> i screamed friendly, friendly, friendly because somebody screamed burn inside. >> i'm talking about when you crossed 60th. you yelled at them. >> at that time, yes. >> no one in the crowd is yelling burn inside or anything along those lines, are they. >> not at that time. >> and you also wanted someone from that group to come along with you when you're going to go down and put out a fire because you knew full well that anyone running around like you putting fires out is going to cause a reaction in the crowd, a hostile reaction, correct? >> i didn't think it would cause a negative reaction. i wanted somebody to come with me because you're better in pairs, and i thought there were other people at that car source before i got there. >> well, dominic, if you're telling us that dominic black called you to run three blocks down the road to put out a fire at the 63rd street car source, then you must have known at that moment that there wasn't anyone else down there, right? why would you need to go if somebody's already down there? >> mr. black said to me on the phone, hey, they're setting fires at the other car source, i need you to get down there, put out the fires. it must not have -- i took it as there's not other people down there. >> why would you need to go three blocks down if there were already people there? >> to help. >> he's asking a question. the witness doesn't know the answer whether there are people there or not. >> he's told us he thought there were, so i'm probing the basis of that and his understanding at the time. >> you can answer if you understand the question. >> i'll repeat the question. why would you need to run three blocks down to the 63rd car source if you thought there were already people there? >> i thought there were people there but dominic asked me to go down there, i thought that was to help put out the fires that were down there. >> this video that we're watching is minutes after you've left the 59th street car source, right? >> yes. >> and when you leave the 59th street car source, you're with ryan balch, and then this reporter, ritchie mcginniss. >> yes >> and as far as you know when you lever 59th streetcar source, everybody in your group is still back there, right? >> at the car source? >> at the 59th street car source, everybody is still back there: joanne feedler, dustin colette, nick smith, jason lackowski, anyone else, they're all still there, right? >> at that location, yes. >> so none of your group is already down at 63rd street car source, right? >> the other group that showed up after we got done taking the pictures, i think i said two or three advance, i believed they were still down there sg. >> and that was two or three vans of people that came out with what have been described as melee weapons, like bats and clubs, and things like that. first of all, do you recall that testimony? >> i do. >> do you remember seeing those two or three vans come to that location? >> i do. >> do you remember seeing people get out of those vans? >> yes, i saw -- i think there was six people in total. >> and you saw them with weapons? >> i saw them with -- i saw them with rifles. i don't think i remember melee weapons. >> they were armed, correct? >> yes. >> and you believed that they were going to be the ones protecting the 63rd street car source, correct? >> yes. at this point in time in the evening had anybody told you that those folks had left the 63 street car source? >> no. >> so when you're running with this fire extinguisher you think there's already a group that's designated to that spot that's still down there, right? >> yes. >> so again, why do you feel that you needed to run the three blocks down there with a fire epi extinguisher if you thought there were already people down there protecting the property sfl. >> dominic asked me to go help put out the fires down there. >> and in that phone call, dominic never told you that any of the members of the 59th street group that you were part of, he never said any of them were down there at 63rd, right? >> yes. >> and he never told you that the group that was supposed to be down there, he never told you anything about them, whether they were there or not there, he never mentioned them, fair? >> it didn't come up. >> and you asked the people that you got the fire extinguisher from to come with you, right? >> yes. >> you were looking for ryan balch for back up, right? >> i was looking around for him, yes. >> you had already tried to go back to the 59th street location, right? >> yes. >> and all of those failed? >> yes. >> so then you decide to take it upon yourself to head down to 63rd street to put out fires, fire? >> i wouldn't say that. i would say i went to go put out the fires that i was there to do. when i say protect the property, i mean by like put out fires, so i went to go put out the fires. i justice believed there were people there. >> and you brought your ar-15 along? >> yes. >> why? >> because it was with me already. >> yeah, but you'd taken it off earlier when you were treating someone, you gave it to joanne feedler, correct? >> yes. >> you know how to take it off, don't you? >> yes. >> and you can make a choice on your own whether or not to go armed with it or whether to give it to the person who is the lawful owner of it on that date, dominic black, correct? >> i didn't take my rifle off there because there was nobody i could hand it to. and when i took it off to hand it to joann feedler i was in a safe spot in the corner of the building where there were people protecting me at that time right there. when i went to go to the car source number three to put out the fires, there was nobody i could hand my rifle to that could protect me while i'm providing first aid to somebody. >> you still knew you had it. >> my rifle, yes. >> you knew you had it strapped around your body. >> yes >> and you made a conscious decision to bring it along, right? >> yes. >> he gave an answer about how he already had it. >> did you hear the question? >> i did. but i don't really understand. >> well, you, was it simply that, well, i've already got it strapped on so i might as long bring it on, you decided to bring along the ar-15 because, well, i already got it. >> i don't think i was thinking like, hey, i'm going to take my rifle off. i wouldn't have because there was people around that could have stolen my gun and i didn't -- i didn't take my rifle off because i was going there alone. i was going to be running there alone. and i didn't take it off because no one else was there to protect me as i was going there. so that's why i brought it. >> for protection. >> yes. >> you brought it along down there because you felt like you would need to protect yourself against someone else harming you, correct? >> if that would have happened i would have protected myself, but i didn't think i was going to be attacked and ambushed. >> but you just said you had it for protection, what were you expecting you would need protection from? >> i thought we had covered much of this before. >> i'm specifically focusing in on the time period where he is heading down to the 63rd street car source. i have not asked him about this yet, your honor. >> well, go ahead. but you need to pick up the pace somewhat. >> when you decided to bring your ar-15 loaded with 50 rounds down to the 63rd street car source location, what did you think you needed protection against? >> i didn't really think i was going to have to protect myself. >> you told us just now you brought it along for protection. >> i did, but i didn't think i was going to need to protect myself. >> you brought it along for protection but you didn't think you needed protection? >> that's not what he said, objection. >> i'm trying to clarify the two different answers that i think he just gave, your honor. >> go ahead, do you understand the question? >> not really. >> i asked you why you brought the gun. you said you needed it for protection, and i said protection against what, you said you didn't think you needed protection. i'm confused, can you help me understand why you think you needed a gun for protection but you didn't think you needed protection. >> i brought the gun for my protection, but i didn't think i would have to use the gun and end up defending myself. >> so you in this video are running? >> yes. >> you run across the screen? yes? >> yes. >> and then i think you testified on direct that as you made it down the block, you -- i don't remember exactly how you phrased it, but you stopped running and you walked for a little while, is that right? >> i jogged and walked occasionally. >> carrying the fire extinguisher and your gun? >> yes. >> and you're alone at that point with no back up, right? >> yes. >> and you testified that when you got down to the 63rd street car source, you indicated that you came upon that vehicle we have been calling the duramax, you know what vehicle i'm talking about? >> i do. >> and you indicated when you got there, you walked around the vehicle and you saw a person that you now know to be joshua zaminsky, is that right? >> yes. >> you didn't know joshua's name at that point, correct? >> no. >> you hadn't taken any notice of him at all up until that moment all night long, fair? >> fair! >> this is the first time that you see that this is a person that comes to your attention, fair? >> yes. >> and you said he had a gun in his hand. >> gentyes. >> and you put the fire extinguisher down on the ground. >> i dropped the fire extinguisher. >> and you see, hear mr. rosenbaum coming from behind you? >> when i get to the duramax, i step forward, and then mr. zominsky turns towards me, steps towards me, i drop the fire extinguisher, step back, and that's when i see -- i go to run back toward 59th street. >> and mr. rosenbaum is coming -- >> don't interrupt. >> and then i -- that's when i notice mr. rosenbaum running at me leaving me with no other -- mr. zominsky in front of me with the gun, mrs. zominsky right there a couple of feet away, and then some other people there. >> and then the chase happens, is that fair to say? >> yes. >> have you told us everything that you did when that situation just happened at the dura max? >> yes. >> can we play the ipad, please, the ipad with the drone video. this is exhibit number 73. what are you guys going to do? >> is it on this computer? okay. >> mr. rittenhouse, this is a video that has been admitted into evidence as exhibit number 73. this is a video taken by a drone that was hovering south of 63rd at the time that you shot mr. rosenbaum. we're going to play the beginning of this video on the ipad, and i'm going to have detective howard use the pinch and zoom feature on the ipad to zoom in on the area. >> your honor, i'm going to objects to this. and i'd like to be heard outside the presence of the jury. >> perfect time for a break, don't you think, let's take a break. please don't talk about the case during the break. read, watch or listen >> okay. we've been listening to more than an hour there of the prosecutor questioning kyle rittenhouse. he seemed to be questioning him a lot about his thought process, why he did the things he did, brought the gun he did, was in the position he was in, and it seemed like the judge was getting a little bit impatient with what i think he thought was circular questions. >> he was repetitive. there would be one line of questioning that went on for five or six or seven questions kind guesting to the same thing and one hour and 17 minutes of questions since they brought the jury back in. let's bring in now cnn legal analyst areva martin, joey jackson and senior legal analyst elie honig. we've done this often enough where i know that you will say juries like to be told a story. they need a narrative. what is the story in the last hour and 17 minutes that this prosecutor, thomas binger, is trying to tell this jury? >> you read my mind, victor. i asked the exact same question. so far, this is really subpar cross-examination. they're not going to the heart of the case here. what happened. they may be getting there right now but what happened in those crucial moments, seconds right before rittenhouse. >> i'm going back into the courtroom. >> ipads made by apple have artificial intelligence in them that allow things to be viewed through three dimensions and log rhythms. >> log rhythms? i don't understand it all either. and it uses artificial intelligence or their log rhythms to create what they believe is happening. so this isn't actually enhanced video. this is apple's ipad programming creating what it thinks is there. not what necessarily is there. and i don't know what's going to happen, but we had this video enhanced. we had testimony regarding it, and this is one of the topics that came up. i asked my expert. do you know of anything that does something like that because that was when the detective testified about pinching his telephone. and that's what i was told. and that's what i think this is going and i don't think that it's appropriate. it's wrong. >> mr. binger? >> your honor, i think everybody in this room has a smartphone, whether it's an apple iphone or some other device, and i think we've all taken a photograph or a video at one point or another and used the pinch to zoom in feature. this is a common part of everyone's everyday life. in the olden days you have photograph and a magnifying glass, right? that doesn't change the photograph. when you use a magnifying glass to look at words on a paper or a photograph, the magnifying glass doesn't change the image. it doesn't change the pixels on the paper. it doesn't change the words in the book. all it does is make them easier to see. the pinch and zoom feature on the ipad or the iphone or android phone, whatever device everyone in this room has does that exact same thing. now if council has an expert who will say that this sunreliable or distorting the image or something along those lines, even though this is something everybody in this room has done with countless videos and photos throughout the last ten years of our lives here, this is a feature of everyday life in america now with smartphones. if they want to have an expert come in and say it's unreliable and you can't believe what's on that screen, they can do that. and then the jury can make a decision as to whether or not pinching and zooming on an ipad or iphone is tampering with a video or altering the image or unreliable or shouldn't be given any weight. so if they want to make a jury question out of this, they are free to do so. we're still in their case in chief, but i don't, frankly, understand or agree with anything the counsel just said. i've used my phone. i think you probably have, too. this is something within everyone's common knowledge to pinch and zoom on a screen and that's what's going on here. it does not change the image in any way. >> you are saying -- well, i don't know. when i put the magnifying glass up, then it's enlarging the image. it's not altering the image. what he is saying, i think, and i know less than anyone in the room here i'm sure about any of this stuff, but i am hearing him to say that there are actually artificially inserting pixels into there, which is altering the object which is being portrayed. and so, you know what, myself, when confronted with these changes in technology, what i usually do is to have -- to admit the evidence, but make sure that the finder of fact is aware of the fact that it is not the original image and the method by which it's been enhanced. you're suggesting that i should make the defense bring in an expert for it. my thought would be that actually you're the one who is offering the exhibit so you should be in a position to offer evidence as to the fact that it is not distorting the object which is depicted. >> i would submit your honor that i think it's common sense to everyone in this room that that's not what's going on here and what counsel is saying about apple's software and log rhythms and stuff like that is not something people in this room are familiar with. >> i thought i heard the expert say on the stand, believe me again, this is not something i'm familiar with, but i thought i heard the expert say that you brought down from the crime lab, that, in fact, there were alterations made by adding pixels. that's an alteration of the image. so i don't have any problem with it being received but you'll have to have someone testify that it's a reliable -- i don't want to say mirror image, but -- because, obviously, if you insert more items into an area of space, it's going to distort what's depicted. >> i think, your honor, when the pinch and zoom is used on a screen, it actually -- it almost -- takes the high resolution that we see here and it brings it into the point where the pixels are actually spread out more. >> i'm not going to accept as accurate what richards is saying. i'm not going to accept what you're telling me. i said if you can offer somebody who is knowledgeable in these areas, the document -- i think you should be allowed to use the image, but this is high risk, to me, if -- to me, if you insert more data into an area of space. you're wagging your head no. tell me where i'm wrong. >> there's no proof in this record that we're doing that. >> i didn't say there was proof in it. i said you have the burden of proof. you are the proponent of the exhibit and you need to tell me that it's reliable. >> the exhibit is already in evidence. >> that i know. >> the enhanced exhibit is not in evidence. >> this not enhancing. >> well, if -- >> then why show it? the reason you want to show it is because it enhances the image, right? >> -- >> no, one at a time. >> i'll say -- the defense has taken videos and photos and cropped them, zoomed in on them, on many exhibits in this trial. and this is, again, like i said, the magnifying glass is not changing the image. what the expert testified to about his software program was that he uses, i think he called it amfar 5 or something look that. it was a software program he was using to create the additional images and exhibits that were introduced with regard to this drone video. he talked about what that software program does. he was not talking about the common ordinary everyday pinch and zoom feature on the apple. they 24 diare two different thi. i don't think it's fair to equate the technical video editing software used by the crime lab with pinching and zooming on an iphone. they are different software programs issue different procedures. i don't think it's fair to extrapolate this. every one of those jurors is familiar with this process. this is a fundamental part of our lives nowadays. it's much like a hundred years ago people used magnifying glasses. this is no different than that. i think this is common knowledge, and i don't think i need any sort of expertise on this issue, if the defense wants to quibble with it, they have an expert who can offer testimony. but the exhibit is already in evidence. it would be -- >> first off -- >> a photograph of it and holding up an enlargement. we had a guy come in yesterday with walgreens prints. this is what is done with photographs all the time. there's enlargements done in a lab. it doesn't change the pixels. >> no, no, you know -- i don't want to hear about what happened earlier in the trial that came in without objection. if you didn't object, then i didn't address it. now i'm not going to police this case so everybody -- any time somebody wants to put some evidence in, i'm going to say, well, wait a minute, what about that, what about that? i have to have an objection. i get an objection and i rule on it. there's been no objection during this trial when either side has exported an image or anything like that. if either brought in an objection, i would have ruled on it. but to say now, well, this has already been done during the trial. i've got an objection in front of me now. he's suggesting that the amplifying the image is altering what is

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