warnings that she gave her daughter before she made that trek out west. and she said that she thought that gabby would be in good hands as she put it with brian laundrie. she talked about brian laundrie's relationship early on with the petito family, saying that he was polite and quiet. he would read to their other children and brianna, she said she thought he was a nice guy. >> that must be just heart breaking for her as she thinks back on that. i wonder what brian laundrie's parents, what they had to say to them, randi. >> reporter: well, she -- they got -- they had a lot of harsh words for the laundrie family for allegedly not coming forward with all that they might know about their son's whereabouts, where he may be, why he left and also what they might know about what happened to gabby petito. so they had some harsh words for the laundrie parents and for brian laundrie as well. listen. >> i think silence speaks volumes. i believe they know probably if not everything they know most of the information. i would love to just face to face ask why are you doing this? just tell me the truth. just want to get him in a cell for rest of his life. >> we want vengeance, and him to be -- and justice. >> reporter: and cnn did reach out to the family attorney for the laundrie family to ask about gabby petito's mom's comments that brian's parents may know more than they're sharing and the lawyer told us no comment. and one other note, brianna, about that moab body cam tape that we saw, we have seen it over and over again after that police stop on august 12th in moab, utah, somebody had called 911 reporting they saw a man slapping a woman, and they were in a white van. you see gabby petito crying, visibly upset in that body cam video. well, her mother was asked about what it was like to watch that during this interview with "60 minutes" australia and she said it is hard to watch. she wanted to reach through the screen to rescue her daughter and she looked like a young girl who needed someone to hug her, brianna. >> yeah, i can only imagine. randi kaye, live from florida, thank you. "new day" continues right now. good morning to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. i'm brianna keilar with john avlon who is subbing in this hour as berman goes to jury duty, to be clear, as a juror. it is tuesday, october 19th. a house select committee will vote here in a matter of hours whether to hold trump ally steve bannon in contempt for defying its subpoena. if they do, the matter would then be referred to the justice department for criminal prosecution. bannon is claiming executive privilege -- the white house, not buying that. cnn has obtained a letter from the white house deputy counsel and it says that the biden administration will not support any attempt by bannon to refuse cooperation with the select committee. >> and last night, trump did what trump does when he's in a jam. he sued the january 6th committee and the national archives in a bid to keep documents under wraps. lawmakers accuse him of stalling. the white house is accusing him of abusing the office of the presidency. and attempting to subvert a peaceful transfer of power. the national archives is expected to turn over documents early next month if the courts do not stop them. cnn law enforcement correspondent whitney wild has more. whitney? >> here's how this is all going to play out. the next few hours up until around 8:00 p.m. this evening will be critical in this january 6th commission investigation. here's how the day is going to go. 7:30, this committee meets to presumably vote on this criminal referral for steve bannon. there is a very strong likelihood it would be next to impossible that they won't pass this. so very likely to slide through this committee. then in coming weeks, very likely to hit the house floor. if the house votes to move on this from no referral, it will go to the department of justice where merrick garland, the attorney general, still has prosecutorial discretion here. so there are a few open questions. but let's drill down on what bannon is essentially arguing. so basically what he's saying is that because the former president has said that he is trying to assert executive privilege over these records and over these communications, steve bannon is saying, i don't know what the options are because there is this outstanding question about executive privilege and hasn't been decided yet, so i don't know what my authority is. however, the committee says that that is just not a defensible argument, basically what they're saying is that he knows that his communications with the former president are not covered by executive privilege. here is a quote from the resolution that came out last night. >> the law is clear that executive privilege does not extend to discussions between the president and private citizens relating to nongovernmental business or among private citizens. the observation we made several times on this air is that steve bannon wasn't a member of the white house, so the executive privilege presumably doesn't stretch that far. doesn't stretch beyond the confines of the white house itself, john. as you mentioned, the former president suing to try to block the records. the committee knew that this was going to happen. so now the timeline continues. very likely why they put the steve bannon subpoena at the beginning of their investigation because they know the clock could extend here, so they're trying to get this calendar going. the concrete movements tonight to watch are the vote -- the votes coming out of the house committee, then again on to the house floor. so a few outstanding questions, but something to watch. >> we have seen the delay game before. this is a new frontier. whitney wild, thank you very much. joining us to discuss all of this is former u.s. attorney and host of the talking feds podcast, harry litman. it is great to see you. help make sense of this for us. you got the january 6th committee outlining a possible criminal contempt case against steve bannon. do you think it is compelling? do you think it will stick? >> yes, so, it is totally compelling, john. it is open, he's thumbing his nose at them. he knows what to do, comply with a valid lawful subpoena as you or i or anyone would do. that's not the drama here. the drama comes across the street after the house refers it. the department of justice normally isn't in the habit of bringing criminal cases against their own or former or former officials for not complying with the congressional subpoena. they normally say our hands, we keep out of that. now, they have already bent their normal policies when they said, you know what, we're not asserting executive privilege here. but it would be extraordinary and literally for them to go forward with a criminal referral and if they don't, then we have got a dead end and a stalling game once again. it is as you say, there is no play here on the merits. he has a -- an absolutely meritless claim. the only play is to try to stall, play out the clock, and tell the congressional investigation has basically run its useful course. >> which is a signature move for the trump crowd. >> that's right. >> does the committee want to prosecute bannon? are they just trying to get him to testify and if it is the second thing, i mean, do you think this threat will work? how have we gotten to a place where the doj doesn't enforce criminal contempt when it comes to congress? >> we got there about ten years ago, in a different world, when they said we generally don't do this. we are now in a place where starting in the trump administration, what had been before an occasion for accommodation became a straight stone wall. that's how they're in this pretty pass. that's what could cause them to say we'll change things up. which do they want? they want him to testify. but they don't have leverage. we saw the other possible maneuver, a civil suit, not succeed during the impeachments because, again, there is just a disconnect between how much time you need to enforce in the courts and how much time the congress has to investigate. we have got the same disconnect here, even if the doj brings the criminal referral, but if it does bring it, it means there is a real cost to bannon that changes the overall dynamic, because at the end of the day, he could wind up in a jumpsuit. >> that is, indeed, a degree of accountability that could change the calculus. how we got to a place where enforcing the law is somewhat optional is stunning to me. let's switch over to claims of executive privilege, donald trump's in game, arguing his record should be protected from the january 6th committee because of executive privilege. here's the problem, he's not the executive, or the president anymore. so what do you think of his argument? is it going to wash? >> it does seem to be a troublesome detail, isn't it? yeah. the president -- we only have one president at a time, only one person, joe biden, who said i'm going to take care, the law will be enforced. he says i'm not going to assert here. trump really doesn't have a valid claim. it is not 100% clean. there is a little snippet that he can try to rely on from a supreme court case, but, no, this is a stone cold loser again, and it is -- there is a one page playbook here, try to delay. the clock had started on him under the legal scheme and obscure official called the administrator of the u.s. told him in 30 days, and that's november 12th. i'm turning this stuff over. so he had to do anything to try to stop the music. this was his only play. and he's not even trying to win. he's just trying to get the court, either the district court or the court of appeals or the supreme court to freeze things while they decide and that would be, again, in effect a defeat. there is just a very bad flaw in the law here that lets bad claims prevail in the sense that they stall things long enough to make the legal compulsion irrelevant. not illegal, but irrelevant. >> as you say, the clock is ticking and also the extraordinary backdrop of the biden administration accusing former president of abuse of power. harry litman, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, john. breaking overnight, "the wall street journal" is reporting a haitian gang that kidnapped 17 missionaries, 16 of them americans, is demanding $1 million each for their release. so this is a $17 million demand here. haiti's justice minister told the journal that the fbi and haitian police are in contact with the kidnappers, and negotiations could take weeks. joining us now is andrew mccabe, the former fbi deputy director and he's a cnn senior law enforcement analyst. can you tell us what would be going on right now, take us behind the scenes of what kind of talks the fbi is having with the kidnappers and amongst themselves? >> sure, so, brianna, i was in this position many times during my time in the bureau, working with families, working with the state department, trying to recover kidnapped americans. and i can tell you what the bureau is doing is running an investigation to determine exactly who is behind the kidnapping, and also who could potentially influence the kidnappers. so you need to establish lines of communication to the people that actually have the hostages in hand, to be able to conduct this sort of negotiation. so you have fbi agents on the ground right now working very closely with their state department colleagues, working with law enforcement, and possibly intelligence officials in the host country. this is, of course, haiti in this situation. they are trying to pull together as much information as they can. all of that goes up to a group called the hostage recovery fusion cell, which is also run by the fbi, but is an interagency center that is overseen by the white house and has elements of each of the different federal agencies that is involved in recovering americans overseas. and that's kind of the brain cell that processes all the information and makes sure there is a solid connection with the families involved. >> there are kids involved. we're talking about some little kids including an 8-month-old and this ransom is nuts, andy. $17 million that they're asking for and these are missionaries from an ohio-based group. do these ransoms ever get paid? >> well, they do. and that's a really sensitive su subject, particularly when the hostages are u.s. we have a policy against paying hostages for americans and it is for very good reason. if you continue to pay hostages you essentially support the kidnapping industry. you attract more of these groups to conduct kidnappings and more americans get violated and abused. so we have a policy not to do it. but as a practical matter, we are working so closely with the families that we try to help them make the decisions about whether or not they want to pay. we try to help them accumulate those assets that they may need to actually pay a ransom, and i should also say that ransom demands are very, very rarely met in their entirety. the negotiation is conducted and that number usually comes way down. i think we have seen ransoms paid by this group allegedly for other kidnapped persons in the range of tens of thousands of dollars. you can see it move a lot. >> really quickly before i let you go, any chance of a rescue operation or would that be too risky? >> absolutely that's always on, you know, that's always on the radar as something folks are considering. but it is typically not done for exactly the reason you mentioned. it places the lives of the hostages in danger and you don't want to push anything in that direction unless it is absolutely necessary. >> all right, andy, thank you so much. you really illuminated i think what the fbi is dealing with here. up next, president biden is about to meet with progressives and then he's going to meet with moderates at the white house. this as senators manchin and sanders making a bit of a move. the new announcement expected from the fda on covid booster shots. and the major college head football coach fired for refusing to get his covid shot. >> tech: when you get a chip in your windshield... trust safelite. this couple was headed to the farmers market... when they got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ there's a different way to treat hiv. it's once-monthly injectable cabenuva. cabenuva is the only once-a-month, complete hiv treatment for adults who are undetectable. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider once a month. hiv pills aren't on my mind. i love being able to pick up and go. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems,...and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection site reactions, fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. with once-a-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. ask your doctor about once-monthly cabenuva. oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? so you only pay for what you need. sorry? limu, you're an animal! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ people were afraid i was contagious. i felt gross. it was kind of a shock after i started cosentyx. four years clear. real people with psoriasis look and feel better with cosentyx. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections —some serious— and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms, or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. learn more at cosentyx.com. regina approaches the all-electric cadillac lyriq. it's a sunny day. nah, a stormy day. classical music plays. um uh, brass band, new orleans. ♪ ♪ she drives hands free... along the coast. make it palm springs. ♪ cadillac is going electric. if you want to be bold, you have to go off-script. experience the all-electric cadillac lyriq. two high stakes meetings at the white house just hours from now. president biden hosting one with progressives and then another with moderates as negotiations continue over major infrastructure and social safety net bills. several democrats are warning they could vote against the giant spending bill if it does not include key provisions aimed at address climate change. let's talk about this now with democratic senator chris coons of delaware, who serves on the appropriations committee and the foreign relations committee and a key ally of president biden's. senator, thank you so much for being with us this morning. it is a big week. and the president is going to be meeting with moderates and progressives today. what is his goal? what does he need to do today? >> well, brianna, politics is the art of the possible. and president biden is someone who understands how to bring people together, how to resolve differences and how to move us forward. the build back better bill will move forward, including some significant, i would say historic investments in reducing the costs that americans stay up at night worrying about. whether that's the cost of healthcare and elder care, day care and pre-k. there is a menu of options for what we can come to agreement about. and our president needs to help our progressive wing understand that any one of these would be a significant, even a generational new investment and to help our two reluctant moderates to this conversation, to come to a final agreement. and to recognize that we all share the same policy goals, which is helping america's middle class. this bill, the build back better bill, that will move forward will provide a huge middle class tax cut and fully paid for. that's historic. and i think this is a critical week, hopefully week, no more than two weeks between now and halloween for the biden presidency and for democrats in congress to show the american people what we can get done together. >> so implicit in what you're saying there is that democrats are not going to get everything that we just showed on the screen, all of these different policy provisions that are in there. what policies has the president come to terms with, hey, this may have to go. >> well, i'll let the president speak for himself, but i'll tell you that there is a very broad and bold and ambitious agenda that i support and that most of our caucus supports. but there is a few pieces that senator sinema and manchin and a few others have pointed out they don't support in terms of either increasing federal revenue or new spending. so this is the art of the possible and one of my highest priorities is making sure we include some bold climate provisions in this plan. there is big tax extenders that will help accelerate a transition to clean energy. there is the civilian climate core, which i'm continuing to fight for. and so are many in leadership from senator schumer to frankly president biden. this will unleash a new generation of americans helping promote climate resiliency, making our forests and our public lands urban communities and wetlands stronger and more resilient in the face of climate. the question is whether we can include a polluter fee. something that would make it more expensive for heavily polluting countries like china to export steel and cement and fertilizer into the united states. that's something i'm still hopeful we can include. and would allow us to go to glasgow, the global summit on climate in two weeks showing some ambition on combatting climate here in the united states. >> so if you want all of those climate initiatives, and the price tag comes down, you have to say bye to something, right? that would be some of the social safety net issues. so, you know, what would get trimmed or what would get eliminated? what do you think would be acceptable? there is free community college, there is expanded medicare, there is an expansion of pell grants, the child tax credits, and so on. what could be jetsonned? >> i have folks who work for me who are paying as much if not more for child care as they are for their mortgages. and it is something that work families struggle with. it is something that is prevent people from getting back into the workforce. and it is something frankly that is going to require significant investment to improve the quality, the affordability, the accessibility. i have three kids who are now in college, but i'll tell you, when they were very young, that's an absolutely critical phase of life. but, brianna, these are tough choices. at the end of the day, the values choices that we're going to have to make as a caucus are going to be difficult, but they have to reflect a focus on reality. we're going to get a few big things done, but they have to be so significant that families across this country next year can say, that's what the democrats did when they had a chance, when they controlled congress and the white house, and whether it is lowering prescription drug costs or improving day care and pre-k, it made a difference to me and my family. >> you have seen there has been a little bit of acrimony between your colleague senator sanders and senator manchin. that is a nice way of putting it. the mean way might be they have been kind of jerky to each other. here they are as of yesterday talking. how are you viewing the discussions between them and also the discussions between senator sanders and pramila jayapal, the head of progressives in the house? >> well, brianna, it is a positive thing when peace breaks out in my caucus. and frankly i'm encouraged that these two iconic strong-willed leaders in the senate were able to embrace and to recognize some of their differences. this is because none of us want the biden administration to fail. all of us represent states, whether it is west virginia, or vermont or delaware, where folks are still struggling to meet the costs of everyday living. so whether our investments will be in affordable housing, or in higher education, in day care or elder care, it is a menu that is robust, and having these two senators able and willing to talk together about how we land this plane, having conversations both with and at the white house today, that's a significant step forward. i am optimistic we will get this done, brianna. >> it is a big week. big couple of weeks. we'll see what comes out of these meetings. senator coons, thank you for being with us. president joe biden taking questions from the american people in an cnn exclusive as he tries to sell this build back better plan this week. anderson cooper moderating a cnn presidential town hall, with joe biden, that will be thursday night at 8:00. be sure to tune in. get a lot of your questions answered there. up next, the fda's new stance on booster shots. who can benefit the most from it? 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one that fits your needs and your budget? call humana now at the number on your screen for this free guide! it's just one of the ways that humana is making healthcare simpler. and when you call, a knowledgeable, licensed agent-producer can answer any questions you have and help you choose the plan that's right for you. the call is free, and there's no obligation. you know medicare won't cover all your medical costs, so call now. and see why a medicare supplement plan from a company like humana just might be the answer. new this morning, the fda is expected to announce a mix and match approach for booster shots, according to the new york times. boosters of the moderna and johnson & johnson vaccines are expected to be authorized any day now. and the times says the fda plans to allow people to receive a different covid-19 vaccine as a booster than the one they initially received. more than 10 million americans, only 3% nationwide, have already received a booster. with this news, tens of millions more will become eligible to for their extra shot. joining me now is dr. ashish jha, dean of brown university school of public health. dr. jha, thank you for joining us as always. you've been predicting that most americans will end up getting a booster shot. but by early next year. so could this mixing and matching of the vaccine speed up that timeline big time? >> good morning. thank you for having me back. yeah, first and foremost, i think people who are older, people who are chronically ill, they need a booster. and whether you got a moderna, pfizer, j&j, doesn't matter, you need a booster and you should get one. the mixing and matching thing says it doesn't matter which booster you get. if you have the moderna shot before, you can get another mod moderna, pfizer. it is fine. i do think this will speed this up. high risk people should be getting boosters now. i expect lower risk people to be getting a booster maybe later this year or early next year. >> the new york times reporting that an nih study presented last week to the fda's advisory panel suggested that johnson & johnson recipients might be the ones who benefit the most from the booster shot and moderna vaccine. should those folks who got the j&j be worried about the efficacy of their original dose? >> no. look, j&j is a very good vaccine. it probably turns out that it is a two-shot vaccine that just the way moderna and pfizer are. we were hoping j&j would be one and done. you probably needed the second shot. at this point, what i'm recommending to people, if you got j&j, get a second shot. you can get a second j&j shot. that's going to get authorized very quickly by the fda. or you can get a second shot of moderna or pfizer and that would also serve you quite well. >> mix and match is a whole new ball game. i want to pivot to conservative radio host and noted vaccine skeptic dennis prager who says he got covid on purpose. listen and then respond. >> it is infinitely preferable to have natural immunity than vaccine immunity. and that is what i hoped for the entire time. hence i so engaged with strangers, constantly hugging them, taking photos with them, knowing that i was making myself very susceptible to getting covid, which is indeed as bizarre as it sounded what i wanted. >> what is your response to that? >> i mean, it's deeply irresponsible and deeply disrespectful to the families of the 700,000 americans who have died of covid. this is a deadly disease. we don't encourage people to go out and get a deadly disease with the hope that they survive it. and don't end up having long-term consequences. look, natural immunity is good, actually most of the evidence suggests that vaccine inducing immunity is at least as good and probably better, but it doesn't come with the side effect of getting the disease and having long-term consequences. that kind of argument as i said is deeply irresponsible, because i worry that people will listen to him and put themselves and their families and their communities at risk. >> that is indeed the stakes in this case. dr. ashish jha, thank you very much as always. up next, a major college that just fired its head football coach for refusing to get a covid shot. and the lawyers who just questioned former president trump under oath for more than four hours. we're going to talk to one of them next. 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>> well, you know it went well, i think, all and all. our strategy to make sure he would tell the truth, i think we had him under oath, we posed the questions and we tried to corner him. at times he was combative and evasive, but we did pose the questions and got answers, i think, for the most part to most questions. >> you cannot say directly what he said under the deposition. at some point the transcript will be released. you say he was evasive at times. he returned to form. >> yeah, if you've seen trump in a press, like i think most of us have in the way he responds to the press, it wasn't so different as to the way he answers questions for them. >> what was his demeanor, combative, trying to be more disciplined because he was aware of being under oath and changed his posture, so to speak? >> no, he was like the donald trump we have seen in the press. he was at times going on ad-libbing about things. but and many times being evasive and being combative. >> and what really stood out to you? what word for you, the headline so to speak for your case that came out of this. >>le wiell, i can't talk about specifics right now. the transcript will come out eventually and maybe at that point you and the others will be able to see many of the things that stood out. i think quite a few things he said stand out quite a bit. >> let me press you a little bit, i know you can't get into specifics, what sort of things stood out to you? >> i can't get into specifics, sorry, john. >> well, you can't forgive a journalist for trying. the question is what's next, what's next for this case? >> we have a conference scheduled for october 25th this coming monday. and we're looking to set a trial date as soon as possible. we'd like to see this trial be conducted and finished before the end of the year. >> what does it mean for a former president to be deposed? you were in the room. that seems historic as well as an assertion of the idea that no one is above the law. >> i think that's right. our clients have waited and we have waited six years to get mr. trump under oath to answer to their claims. and i think this is really about sending the message that no matter who you are, how powerful and rich you think you are, you can't suppress someone's rights using force. >> did trump seem to bristle at the fact he was under oath, required to give a deposition in this case? >> yeah. i think a few times he did complain about having to be there and having to sit and answer all our questions. >> i want to thank you for joining us here on "new day." we look forward to the release of that transcript and i think there will be more depositions in donald trump's near future. >> thank you for having me. up next, the local school board member who says she quit in the face of unrelenting harassment. what she says her opponents did to her. and a woman raped on a commuter train as passengers watched. apparently for minutes. why didn't any of them do anything about it? what does it feel like to sell your car to carvana? it feels amazing. when you get a great offer in seconds... 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visit indeed.com/hire ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ a school board member in st. charles, illinois, resigning after what she calls unrelenting harassment from community members who don't agree with the board's views on in person learning, mask requirements and other issues. my next guest claims that she has been harassed all sorts of different ways. and a warning, that we do have an image here that may be disturbing for some, but we want to show you something that she's dealt with here. this is a dead mouse left at the doorstep of her home. she joins us now, carolyn weibel with us. thank you for being with us. it is important that people know what it is you're dealing with, just to be on the school board. you since resigned. tell us about the kind of harassment you've endured. >> thank you for inviting me here today, first off. so, it has come in lots of different forms. i -- this is my second term. i was first selected in 2017. my second term here is 2021. some of the harassment has been online, unrelenting online social media attacks, that's pretty typical for elected official these days. but they crossed the line to personal family discriminatory posts. there is threatening and harassing emails. the first one was one that threatened the board as to if you recall the utah board that was forced out of the room and said you're next. so we have reported some of those to the local police department. and then they take it and decide what is a threat assessment and go from there. but there has been vandalism to my home, there was some -- >> tell us what happened to your home. >> well, someone, and again this is -- we don't know who, but there was wire cut on the air conditioning unit. we had to replace that. someone came on premise and unplugged a refrigerator/freezer in my garage and entered or opened the door to the laundry room very loudly when i was home and by the time i got there no one was there. those reports have been filed. no evidence as to who it was at this time. but all intimidation tactics. if it was just one or two incidents, it would be perplexing. but all those combined, there is also trespassing on my property, not in the public area, into my actual property. i have a video doorbell that picked up some of this. we have had as you said the dead ro rodents. there also has been -- this community group that has created chaos in our community has put in claims, unfounded claims in the attorney general, state's attorney, they tried to circulate a position to recall the board, which is within their right, but there is no legislation that supports it. and it was unfounded claims of wrongdoing that didn't happen. so it just has been going on for over a year in addition to the personal things that our homes. >> the effect on this, people harassed you in the grocery store, they videotaped you in the grocery store. >> that's correct, yeah. >> tell us about your decision deciding to resign and what you think that means because you're not the only one who has come to that decision. >> correct. so i'm the second board member to resign this year from my board. i've been approached by other board members in our area that have the same thing going on. i need to do what's right for my family, for -- to put their personal safety first. it has been a very difficult decision for me. i served in this area for ten years for the benefit of our students in the area and our kids and regards to education, mental health, and democracy. i think we lost track of all civility in the -- when it comes to legislation. we can parent advocate, respectfully and professionally, but i think we lost track of that. and so i really have a concern for the future of not only our school districts, but our local governing bodies because we are not holding up the parameters in which that -- we have in policy. so i have concern about how we're going to do that and what kind of legislation we may need or how we're going to keep track of that. i believe in first amendment rights. let me tell you. i was the first one on our board to talk about we need more time with our school board members, we need to make sure that we're transparent and we're forward thinking about what we're letting the public have access to. so i am all for more communication and transparency. >> yeah. >> when you do it in a nonproductive way, it is not appropriate. it is not what this country was founded on. and it's just not right. i don't know what else to say about it. >> look, some of these things obviously approaching dangerous, which is clear, certainly meant to instill fear in you and others. thank you for coming on this morning to tell us what you've been going through. >> thank you for having me. i, again, just hope that we can be a kinder society to each other and hope that our boards and our legislation can figure out a solution for this. thanks for having me on. >> carolyn, thank you so much. here is what else to watch today. a pair of pivotal meetings today at the white house, progressives and moderates in the oval office with president biden's agenda at stake. but first, a woman raped on a commuter train as people watched but not one of them helped. how does something like this happen? as someone who resembles someone else... i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. [ nautical horn blows ] i mean just because you look like someone else doesn't mean you eat off the floor, or yell at the vacuum, or need flea medication. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ when a woman was raped by a stranger on a pennsylvania commuter train last week, police say there were a number of bystanders who watched it happen. and they did not only fail to intervene, they also didn't even bother to call the cops. joining us now is a criminologist at the university of miami. how does something like this happen? >> good morning, john. i wish we weren't having this conversation to be quite honest. i think there are three things here. the first one is some people may have been concerned about retaliation. some people may have been concerned about being harmed themselves, and some people may have thought someone else was going to intervene. all three of those in my view are unacceptable. >> fear is not an excuse to not intercede when a fellow citizen is being attacked. but there are larger questions here as well. i want to play for you what a local police superintendent said about this horrific incident. >> there was a lot of people in my opinion that should have intervened. somebody should have done something. it speaks to where we are in society. who would allow something like that to take place? so it is troubling. >> what about that societal point? what does this say to you about where our society is right now? >> it worries me, john. the police can't be everywhere at all times and it is up to us to police each other and also to be the eyes and ears of society when the police aren't around. the onus is on all of us to take care of one another. >> just being decent honorable human beings and fellow citizens. finally, could there be any legal recourse for people who watch a crime like this and don't intercede or even report it? >> it depends on every state has a good samaritan law or not. in the case of pennsylvania, what could happen here is that people who may have videotaped a crime, they could be subject to charges and that's up to the d.a. as they do their investigation right now. >> that raises an extreme question, with cameras ubiquitous now, why wasn't t-- why was this filmed, in addition to why didn't anyone intervene? >> if people see a crime going on, they immediately call 911 to get the authorities there. we live in a world where everything is captured on videotape. and sometimes that can be useful for police in their investigations. when a woman is being assaulted and no one is doing anything, it really worries me, john. >> thank you for joining us. >> my pleasure. >> i think -- i think when anyone is being assaulted and people are standing by, you know. it is just -- it just really does make you wonder about what happened in this particular case, and what it says more broadly about where we are. >> stand up. speak out. help your fellow citizen. it is basic. >> yeah. cnn's coverage continues right now. a very good tuesday morning to you. i'm jim sciutto. >> i'm erica hill. hours from now the january 6th committee will vote on whether to recommend criminal contempt charges against trump ally steve bannon. this is the most aggressive sign yet that anyone defying those congressional subpoenas could face some real consequences. overnight, the panel releasing a criminal contempt report on the former white house outlining its efforts to get bannon to comply with the subpoena. >> bannon so far has remained defiant, refusing to comply, while citing executive privilege, an argument that the